Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 27 Aug 2015 19:22

I have a serious question -- to those members who have attended a chai biscuit session. I have had to decline due to health -- some great opportunities to observe were lost. The IAS types home dinners have tended to be dal roti, given their own disposition towards simple fare. But what exactly is the menu for the sarkari junket? Three course with gulab jamun? What is the addictive component -- turkey?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 27 Aug 2015 19:46

Now that India is capturing paki terrorist who infiltrate across the border, the pakis are now capturing pakis inside their border and pretending that they are RAA agints. Totally on expected lines.

@JaagAlerts #Breaking: RAW network busted in #Karachi, CTD arrests 4 terrorists, affiliated with a political party, trained in India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2015 19:50

Well done Army! Second Paki bhenchod caught alive

Army Used Drdo developed ‘Chilli Grenades’ to Force Pak Terrorist Out of Cave

Less than a month after Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist Mohammad Naveed was captured, a second Pakistani terrorist has been caught in Jammu and Kashmir today.The terrorist captured today has been identified as 22-year-old Javed Ahmed from Muzaffargarh in the Punjab Province of Pakistan.He also goes by the names Sajjad and Abu Ubedullah, interrogators have learned.

Indian Army reportedly used “chilly grenades” developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) at its facility in Tezpur, northern Assam. chilli grenade is a non-toxic weapon and when used would force a terrorist to come out of his hideouts as the smell is so pungent that it would literally choke them.

‘Bhut jolokia’ – recognized as the hottest of spices, measured in Scoville heat units of which is 1,001,304 is one of the key ingredients used in “chilly grenades which were developed by Drdo and already trials for the hand grenades mixed with the world’s hottest chilli ,so far have been found satisfactory and this is first instance of Indian Army using it to flush out terrorist.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Aug 2015 19:59

^^^ LOL! Imagine, out to be martyred, and instead being captured red-~~handed~~-eyed. The ISI is going to need the JuD mullahs to issue a fatwa that being chilli-grenaded counts eventually for X houris where

72 >= X > 0,

otherwise their volunteer rate will drop precipitously.

member_28921 · Post by **member_28921** » 27 Aug 2015 20:06

A great day for South Asia

New Delhi/Islamabad August 27, 2015

The poverty stricken South Asian giant India, home to 600 million poor, launched on Thursday a satellite using rockets based on reverse engineered Russian technology. Experts questioned the logic of spending on a space program considering 700 million Indians defecate in the open and 800 million live on less than $1.25/day. Local media outlets reported the news with a jingoistic relish, which observers note has become more pronounced since the hard-line right-wing leader Narendra Modi has taken over as the Prime Minister.

Meanwhile, the mood across the border, in Islamabad, was conciliatory. "It is a great day for South Asia, that a South Asian GSLV rocket has been launched successfully," said Pakistan's national security advisor Sartaj Aziz, a soft spoken Harvard educated economist. "However, we want to remind India and the world that Pakistan is a nuclear power and should not be taken lightly. The Kashmir issue needs to be resolved for relations to be normalized," Aziz added.

The disputed territory of Kashmir is a potential flashpoint between the two nuclear weapons armed nations, which have fought four wars.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 27 Aug 2015 20:17

Troll alert!!

Ramesh · Post by **Ramesh** » 27 Aug 2015 20:18

Waiting for Nasr to be fired in 5 4 3 2 1

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 27 Aug 2015 20:31

is this the same somnath who was trolling in the nuclear and economic thread a few years ago .His constant ramblings put me off those threads.can members please stop quoting and ignore him.

member_28921 · Post by **member_28921** » 27 Aug 2015 20:32

Ramesh wrote:Waiting for Nasr to be fired in 5 4 3 2 1

"Pakistan has not developed Nasr to fire during Shab-e-barat, I am 400% sure" - Guess who?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2015 20:33

SBajwa wrote:Troll alert!!

Just humor that's all.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2015 20:35

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ LOL! Imagine, out to be martyred, and instead being captured red-~~handed~~-eyed. The ISI is going to need the JuD mullahs to issue a fatwa that being chilli-grenaded counts eventually for X houris where

72 >= X > 0,

otherwise their volunteer rate will drop precipitously.

Looks like the sort of fire and fervour that is needed is not being inculcated into these morons.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Aug 2015 20:35

wadi wrote:A great day for South Asia

New Delhi/Islamabad August 27, 2015

The poverty stricken South Asian giant India, home to 600 million poor, launched on Thursday a satellite using rockets based on reverse engineered Russian technology. Experts questioned the logic of spending on a space program considering 700 million Indians defecate in the open and 800 million live on less than $1.25/day. Local media outlets reported the news with a jingoistic relish, which observers note has become more pronounced since the hard-line right-wing leader Narendra Modi has taken over as the Prime Minister.

Meanwhile, the mood across the border, in Islamabad, was conciliatory. "It is a great day for South Asia, that a South Asian GSLV rocket has been launched successfully," said Pakistan's national security advisor Sartaj Aziz, a soft spoken Harvard educated economist. "However, we want to remind India and the world that Pakistan is a nuclear power and should not be taken lightly. The Kashmir issue needs to be resolved for relations to be normalized," Aziz added.

The disputed territory of Kashmir is a potential flashpoint between the two nuclear weapons armed nations, which have fought four wars.

Good dose of sarcasm! Thank you, Sir, for giving us the good laugh.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Aug 2015 20:45

Army Used Drdo developed ‘Chilli Grenades’ to Force Pak Terrorist Out of Cave
Less than a month after Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist Mohammad Naveed was captured, a second Pakistani terrorist has been caught in Jammu and Kashmir today.The terrorist captured today has been identified as 22-year-old Javed Ahmed from Muzaffargarh in the Punjab Province of Pakistan.He also goes by the names Sajjad and Abu Ubedullah, interrogators have learned.

Indian Army reportedly used “chilly grenades” developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) at its facility in Tezpur, northern Assam. chilli grenade is a non-toxic weapon and when used would force a terrorist to come out of his hideouts as the smell is so pungent that it would literally choke them.

‘Bhut jolokia’ – recognized as the hottest of spices, measured in Scoville heat units of which is 1,001,304 is one of the key ingredients used in “chilly grenades which were developed by Drdo and already trials for the hand grenades mixed with the world’s hottest chilli ,so far have been found satisfactory and this is first instance of Indian Army using it to flush out terrorist.

Hmm... so, Harpal Bector's advise was taken and the terrorists now being caught alive.

Why not convert these terrorists to some other indic religion? Imagine, a hardcore terrorist(prepared to die for the cause) being converted to the opponent's religion/cause. Its a piskological victory. I think that will have a great deterrence effect on future terrorists and their leaders.

I think terrorist leaders should be neutralized and foot soldiers should be converted to one's own cause.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 27 Aug 2015 20:55

shiv wrote: Well done Army! Second Paki bhenchod caught alive

Army Used Drdo developed ‘Chilli Grenades’ to Force Pak Terrorist Out of Cave
Indian Army reportedly used “chilly grenades” developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) at its facility in Tezpur, northern Assam. chilli grenade is a non-toxic weapon and when used would force a terrorist to come out of his hideouts as the smell is so pungent that it would literally choke them.

‘Bhut jolokia’ – recognized as the hottest of spices, measured in Scoville heat units of which is 1,001,304 is one of the key ingredients used in “chilly grenades which were developed by Drdo and already trials for the hand grenades mixed with the world’s hottest chilli ,so far have been found satisfactory and this is first instance of Indian Army using it to flush out terrorist.

Who was the gent who was talking about shoving a mirchi up Pakistan's Mush about a month or two ago in a TV interview? Was it Mr. Parrikar? Looks like people are actually doing precisely that

.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 27 Aug 2015 21:01

now the Ex-MEA/ex-babu types are sending their family members who have inserted themselves into the media space to sneer at "hyper nationalists" who "live in foreign countries" -- the same kind of condescension shown by the KC singh types for anyone who thinks different from these jokers. Just label people as "internet hindu" or "expat hypernationalist" based on some empirical evidence combined with the scientific anal-extraction technique and then associate a specific line of think with this label. Voila -- now you can pretend to be smarter than anyone else and invoke the label whenever someone has a specific point of view, and imply that they are all non-citizens of India, all in one shot.

http://www.mid-day.com/articles/hyper-n ... n/16478190

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 27 Aug 2015 21:16

Shaun wrote:Somnathji ...what is that you want argue/suggest / comment ?? can you please make yourself clear ??? we will be again going OT and admin danda is any time soon.

This is what i understood from the last few posts of yours.

1. The NSA level talks shouldn't have gone down the drain
2. The present GOI is to be blamed for that.
3. We need to talk what ever the circumstances, might be
4. Talking with them will keep the terrorist at bay
5. This will help our GDP to grow at 7 %

1. NSA level talks should not have been organised in the first place. We were planning to talk "terror", thats an instrument of state policy for them. They were planning to talk KAshmir, we dont want to. So whats there to talk about at NSA level? With such media glare?
2. GOI could be blamed for a penchant for summitry, where nothing substantive could possibly have been achieved.
3. We should keep a level of engagement going, low level - Jt Secy, DGMO, maybe FS at some stage. Talking on low level stuff - preserving ceasefire, fishermen etc. Just to keep the embers low and keep the big powers away.
4. Absolutely not - we need to find our own solutions for that.
5. "This" wont - it requires a lot more on other areas. But a constantly hot LoC is no help in encouraging investments.

Tuvaluan wrote:The question you are not answering and sidestepping are: why is it okay to ignore the responses of China and Pakistan when they respond to India's proclamation of 8% growth? Secondly, why is it okay to get into war once India has more to lose after a decade of 8% growth -- why will this same "more economic growth will allow us to take them down" be any less valid then than it is now?

The reason, dear sir, is simple. No one believes that the end game is an apocalyptic "aar paar ki ladai". We will "take them (Pak) down" in the same way as US took USSR down. They will bleed to death, emasculated economically , and torn asunder internally as their national power keeps ebbing away. As for China, a slowing economy will find a lot more interesting to engage in India that is half its size than a failing state at the border.

BTW, no govt thinks any differently. Including the current "nationalist" govt, as well as ABV's original "nationalist" govt. Quibbles are largely around execution, not on the principles.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Aug 2015 21:28

I think people are not asking the right questions and not paying attention to the events.

If Ufa is such a major diplomatic victory for Bhaarath, why did Pakistan agree to those terms in the first place?

To know the answer, hint question: Why did Pakistan inform the UN about the failure of Ufa talks?

That tells you everything. These talks were agreed by pakistan due to the pressure. But, what pressure? Bhaarath tried to bring charges of terrorism on Pakistan in international fora. Immediately, after that, Pakistan agreed to talk on terrorism in Ufa.

I think its pretty clear. I don't why people are not seeing the obvious.

I think Bhaarath was planning (and still plans to) go to the UN and other international fora, once these dossiers are exchanged with Pakistan unless pakistan shows some major crackdown on terrorism specifically 26/11 case.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 27 Aug 2015 21:35

Somnath wrote: No one believes that the end game is an apocalyptic "aar paar ki ladai". We will "take them (Pak) down" in the same way as US took USSR down. They will bleed to death, emasculated economically , and torn asunder internally as their national power keeps ebbing away.

Cannot disagree with that, but that is not relevant to "let us grow at 8% and things will take care of themselves" view that you posited earlier. Larger point is that when adversaries can game India's responses, it increases the threat to India, and does not decrease it. For example, consider the threat NoKo presents to SoKo, and this is after SoKo is a developed country after decades of high growth. Why should the situation be any different w.r.t. pakistan and India in a few years from now. If the excuse now is "8% growth rate will take of everything", what do you think is going to change down the line for anyone to say "growth isn't everything -- pakistan is an existential threat that indents to harm India's economy"? The same excuses about "foreign investment in India will decline" etc. will be just as valid at that point.

Pakistani army and govt. already does not control a goodly chunk of their own territory, and yet they are considered a nuke-wielding threat. North Korea is another counter-example to your claim -- all that is needed is an external sugar-daddy (china) and a powerful group running the country (pakistani army) for Pakistan to remain an existential threat. So even if the rest of the paki populace bleeds to death, the illiterate populace will continue to provide cannon fodder to create trouble and this will be funded by countries like the US and China, directly or indirectly. It does not at all follow that the disintegration of pakistan, will remove the threat to India.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Aug 2015 21:39

US & Soviet are not neighbours. Regardless of the economic conditions, if there is enmity between two neighbours, there is going to be aar paar ki ladai unless they learn to live with each other.

aar paar ki ladai is a sort of vague word. Different people could have different interpretations of aar paar.

BTW, what do various posters think the end-game should be with respect to Pakistan?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 27 Aug 2015 21:46

In a way, the real end game is getting the pakis and IS and others to start focussing their energies on countries like USA and China -- that is the kind of thing that will put a quick end to this offshore balancing being practised by such countries.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 27 Aug 2015 21:46

johneeG wrote:US & Soviet are not neighbours. Regardless of the economic conditions, if there is enmity between two neighbours, there is going to be aar paar ki ladai unless they learn to live with each other.

aar paar ki ladai is a sort of vague word. Different people could have different interpretations of aar paar.

BTW, what do various posters think the end-game should be with respect to Pakistan?

Balkanization

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Aug 2015 21:52

Army used ‘chilly grenades’ to catch Pakistani militant Sajjad Ahmed

Sajjad Ahmed was subsequently arrested and he identified himself as a resident of Muzzafargarh in Pakistan’s Punjab province.

He panicked and begged for mercy after army commandos fired ‘chilly grenades’ and teargas shells into a cave to flush out the terrorists who were holed up there since last night.

Sajjad Ahmed was subsequently arrested and he identified himself as a resident of Muzzafargarh in Pakistan’s Punjab province.

The 22-year-old was one of the five terrorists who had crossed over from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and hid in the cave after army detected the infiltration and was hunting for them in Rafiabad area of Kashmir.

After crossing over from PoK in a place over 100 kms north of here, the five Lashker-e-Taiba militants made several attempts to

The realignment of security layers along the LoC was the brainchild of outgoing Corps Commander of 15 Corps Lt Gen Subrata Saha, who moved on to Army Headquarters for a new assignment.

Giving details, senior officials said Army’s technical intelligence had picked up signals about a group trying to infiltrate through this area during the night of August 25-26.

army

A cordon was laid and one of the militant was killed yesterday in an encounter. However, there was no whereabouts of the remaining terrorists, the officials said.

When the operation was being called off, a reluctant Army Major insisted that the terrorists were still on the Indian territory and a crack team of various units was formed for a search operation.

During the operation, a natural cave was found on the heights in Rafiabad, they said. When the forces approached it, they were fired upon and in the ensuing encounter, three Lashker militants were killed.

Apprehending that there could be some more terrorists inside the cave, the troops then fired several rounds of tear gas shells and ‘chilly grenades’ inside to flush them out.

After sometime, troops entered the cave and found Sajjad weeping bitterly — one because of panic and secondly because of the effect of chilly grenades.

He was immediately arrested and sent to Joint Interrogation Centre in Srinagar for thorough questioning

I think there is a need to develop operation protocol in situations like capturing live jihadi.

They should not be refered to by Name in any report. Just "Mr J" should do.
No leaks of information should happen and publishing such information should be crime.
No photography or parading of Mr J
No Reporter should be allowed near Mr J till he is sent to judicial custody.
Meanwhile all info should be cross checked through intel before Pakis get hint of who is captured and family is made to vanish.
Law should be to detain such Mr J indefinitely till case is decided . Thereafter , they should be handed over to Pakis only if they acknowledge and give proof of them being pakis with DNA test etc else remain in detention centre.
Operation details like what kind of weapons or tactics used should not be disclosed. Chilly makes for graphic read but alerts pakis.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Aug 2015 21:54

Anujan wrote: ...
And finally the only person who gets it all right

https://www.khaama.com/pakistan-is-a-we ... saleh-9605

Pakistan is a weak country and won’t stop terror in Afghanistan anytime soon: Saleh

Amrullah Saleh has said Pakistan will not stop terror in Afghanistan anytime soon, being a strategically narrow-minded state and considering a depth in the region in a bid to put pressure on India in some way.

“Pakistan is a politically insecure, psychologically nervous, and strategically narrow-minded state. It wants parity with India. In the belief of the Pakistani strategists, subordination of Afghanistan to the wishes and demands of Pakistan will give them a depth in the region and will in some way put pressure on India,” Saleh added.

According to Saleh “A real, robust democracy will transform Pakistan into a cultural and economic satellite state of India. Something that the Pakistani leaders want to avoid at any cost.”

Saleh said “Therefore, it is up to the Afghan government to strategize ways of getting Pakistan to refrain from interfering in Afghanistan diplomatically. Creating trouble in a neighboring country is not rocket science.”

I sincerely hope Doval & co have been doing back-channel aman-ki-asha chai-biskoot with Mr. Saleh. That's a seriously brainy guy.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Aug 2015 22:18

Tuvaluan wrote:In a way, the real end game is getting the pakis and IS and others to start focussing their energies on countries like USA and China -- that is the kind of thing that will put a quick end to this offshore balancing being practised by such countries.

Pakistan focusing on USA & China? That seems far-fetched hope. Even if it happens, it would be a temporary distraction, not end game. Pakistan has no capability to impact US or China directly. But, due to geographical proximity, Pakistan will continue to have impact on this region.

Abhay_S wrote:
johneeG wrote:US & Soviet are not neighbours. Regardless of the economic conditions, if there is enmity between two neighbours, there is going to be aar paar ki ladai unless they learn to live with each other.

aar paar ki ladai is a sort of vague word. Different people could have different interpretations of aar paar.

BTW, what do various posters think the end-game should be with respect to Pakistan?
Balkanization

Then? Is that the end?

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 27 Aug 2015 22:19

Cyber-BlackMail Comes To Pakistan

While the government is busy in developing a new cyber law, many from Media, internet service providers, NGOs and members of civil society have already termed it contentious. According to them, many clauses of the proposed bill are tantamount to curtailing the freedom of expression and are against article 19 of the constitution of Pakistan. However at the same time, digital security and cyber blackmail are growing issues across the country.

On August 17, two students, Muhammad Ali and Suhail, were arrested by the FIA (Federal Investigation Agency) for blackmailing girls online. The students allegedly ran a notorious facebook page called Edwardian Girls using a pseudonym called Gandageer Khan. The group is accused of posting personal information, photos and phone numbers, of girls without their consent and demanding payment in return for removing it – a classical example of cyber-blackmail. The blackmail started in 2011 and ran with impunity for four years before the authorities could nab the culprits.

It is not clear how many girls were blackmailed, but conservative reports show the number in hundreds. Girls are the most vulnerable and soft target of the blackmailers in Pakistan. In a conversation with three female victims of Gandageer Khan’s blackmail who wished to remain anonymous due to cultural constraints, said the blackmail had a terrible psychological effect on them and their families.[*]

[*] Pretty sure that the crime does not just 'stop' at cyber- blackmail !

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Aug 2015 22:33

Abhay_S wrote:
johneeG wrote:US & Soviet are not neighbours. Regardless of the economic conditions, if there is enmity between two neighbours, there is going to be aar paar ki ladai unless they learn to live with each other.

aar paar ki ladai is a sort of vague word. Different people could have different interpretations of aar paar.

BTW, what do various posters think the end-game should be with respect to Pakistan?
Balkanization

pakistanisation

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 27 Aug 2015 22:50

Warning To Pakistan Establishment - There Will Be 'War' If Asif Zardari Apprehended

ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – Opposition Leader in the National Assembly (NA) Khursheed Shah on Thursday has said that if former president Asif Ali Zardari is apprehended, there will be a war.

He warned the government while talking to the media in the Parliament House.

He criticized the government saying that whatever actions are being taken by authorities are restricted to Sindh only. Shah said that Sindh Higher Education Commission (HEC) chairman Dr Asim Hussain must be interrogated first before any legal proceedings.

A grey trafficking case is being compiled against Raja Pervez Ashraf, he added. He said that the government should be ashamed of handcuffing PPP’s ex-Punjab president Qasim Zia. Shah said that nothing is achieved on gun point.

He said that PPP is ready to hold talks with Prime Minister (PM) Nawaz Sharif. He said that PPP does not want to weaken the Parliament. The opposition leader said that Parliament’s forum should be used to solve issue of Election Commission of Pakistan’s (ECP) controversial officials. Shah criticised the ECP members saying that they should quit services for their disgraceful actions.

Shah said that Indian intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) has completely entered in Sindh and Balochistan .

The Punjabi dominated Central Govt of Pakistan is slowly and surely alienating all non Pakjabi sections of Paki society like Sindhis, Mohajirs, Pushtuns, Balochis; my prediction : East Pakistan like situation developing over medium-long, long-term time period.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 27 Aug 2015 23:08

johneeG wrote: Pakistan focusing on USA & China? That seems far-fetched hope.

Have you paid attention to how China treats muslims in Xinjiang? What is so far-fetched about the jihadi hordes from Pakistan getting riled up about that down the line? There is even a land-link between the two regions for the jihadis convenience.

Pakistan has no capability to impact US or China directly. But, due to geographical proximity, Pakistan will continue to have impact on this region.

Pray tell what capability is required by Pakis to affect Xinjiang if they decide to take up that cause? You must think that is significantly difficult to make such a proclamation.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Aug 2015 23:27

This is not a good idea to keep catching these @$$0!e$ and display for media. Everybody knows they come from Pakistan, unless people really think they come from a portal and IronMan is going to close it. It is an unnecessary expense on tax payer and a risk to our defense personnel holding him. Why cant they just put a bullet in the b@$tards head and be done with. What is the benefit we are getting by paying such a cost taking such a high risk?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Aug 2015 01:36

^^^ Intelligence. Perhaps more able to put together the names and personas of the terrorist network in Pakistan.

More dossier-stuff

More opportunity for Arnab to phone the captured's parents.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Aug 2015 01:48

Tuvaluan wrote:In a way, the real end game is getting the pakis and IS and others to start focussing their energies on countries like USA and China -- that is the kind of thing that will put a quick end to this offshore balancing being practised by such countries.

How do you do that?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Aug 2015 01:51

How do you do that?

how do jihadis like IS choose their battles with different entities?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Aug 2015 01:54

^^^ Intelligence. Perhaps more able to put together the names and personas of the terrorist network in Pakistan.

also, GPS devices that would indicate the vicinity of the point of infiltration if they are switched on in India, or point of origin in pakistan.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Aug 2015 03:01

http://www.firstpost.com/world/pakistan ... 10844.html

Pakistan failed to get US support for plebiscite in Kashmir after 1965 war, say declassified docs

At the peak of the 1965 Indo-Pak war, the then Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri wrote a letter to US President Lyndon Johnson wherein he informed the American leadership that New Delhi is willing to agree to an unconditional ceasefire.

"I should like to state quite categorically that there can be no further question of any plebiscite to ascertain the wishes of the people of Jammu & Kashmir," he (Shastri) wrote.

"If President Ayub feels that by launching an invasion on the State of Jammu & Kashmir, he will pressurise us into ceding any part of the State of Jammu & Kashmir, all I can say is that he is grievously mistaken. Much though we love peace, we shall not buy it by selling our territory," Shastri wrote.

"He (Bhutto) said the Pakistanis would sell all their possessions, even their family heirlooms in order to get the means to continue the struggle until the Indian invasion repulsed and Kashmiri rights established.

"I said India not able to agree to that now and Bhutto responded, 'Then let them destroy Pakistan!'" {Precisely what happened 6 years later in 1971 }
"Bhutto said 'People of Kashmir alone must decide, and no solution is complete without people of Kashmir expressing right of self-determination. This is battle of survival for Pakistan. We must be either degraded as nation or prevail. We prepared fight to finish," McConaughy wrote in his telegram.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Aug 2015 03:46

Al Madam Zebba The Bubba Lamentations

Our foreign policy quagmire
Hoor M Mazari

So what has gone wrong? There we were patting ourselves on the back for successfully brokering talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban when the talks stood cancelled and the Afghan government turned on Pakistan. Again, there we were thinking we had salvaged Ufa’s diplomatic disaster and Sartaj Aziz would make it to New Delhi for the talks on terrorism when India sabotaged the talks by laying the APHC ban and the government in Pakistan came under heavy attack on the Ufa declaration yet again. Meanwhile on the sidelines, great preparations for the Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference (CPC) were going full steam ahead when India once again managed to instigate a successful sabotage of the event.Pakistan has two major failings in the domain of foreign policy: One, we rarely seem to see the larger and more long-term picture (when we do it does stand us in good stead); and, two, we create precedence after precedence all of which come to haunt us at critical junctures. We have been doing this since our disastrous adventure into Cento and Seato – which upset the nationalist Arab World, China and the emerging non-aligned states and won us no kudos from the US and its western allies. In fact, after the Sino-Indian conflict, India despite its closeness to the Soviet Union and its leadership role in the non-aligned movement (NAM), was getting more economic and military assistance from the US than Pakistan despite our membership of Cento and Seato! But history has never been our strong point as reflected in our constant rewriting of ‘history’ for our children!
In 2007, the Senate under Mohammad Mian Soomro allowed representatives from Occupied Jammu and Kashmir’s legislature to attend the Commonwealth parliamentary association Asia-India region moot in Islamabad and that came to haunt and undermine our principled position on Kashmir and eventually compelled us to cancel the CPC under pressure from India, Bangladesh and Australia.
Even more critical has been the absurd drama over the dialogue with India, which began at Ufa, where a bizarre joint statement came into being in which the composite dialogue was abandoned and Pakistan accepted Indian diktat seeking the holding of a meeting of the national security advisers of Pakistan and India to discuss all issues relating to terrorism but with the word ‘Kashmir’ missing. Absurdly, the joint declaration also mentioned micro details of the Mumbai issue to be discussed but nothing of RAW’s activities in Balochistan, Karachi and other parts of Pakistan! Of course such a lopsided joint declaration was bound to create major ripples in Pakistan and that is exactly what happened. So the groping-for-a-way-out PML-N government found a ready pretext to cancel the NSA meeting when the Modi government, either rather foolishly or out of an overdose of arrogance, insisted Sartaj Aziz could not meet the APHC leaders when he arrived in New Delhi for the NSA talks.However, this hard posturing by India on the APHC meeting the Pakistani NSA was simply the result of a costly precedence set by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif when he became the first Pakistani leader who did not meet the APHC on his visit to India. So we land ourselves in these situations because we do not think of the repercussions of our actions in the long term.
Because we do not do any long-term policy analysis with proper discussion on unexpected fallouts of various policy options, we also seem unable to connect events to see the larger picture. Presently, we have seen the following simultaneous developments: Progress on the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC); the US first stating it would not pay CSF beyond 2015 and then declaring it was stopping CSF payments under the old hackneyed mantra of ‘do more’; Afghan rapprochement altering into outright Afghan hostility culminating in an attack on our border post; the cancellation of the CPC; the cancellation of the NSA talks. We need to connect these dots to understand the environment in which we must make our decisions. Can we not see the bigger picture of a hostile US which has already destroyed the strong Arab states of the Middle East – we should really ask why the IS never mentions Israel – and has questionable designs in this region? Are we deliberately ignoring the strategic partnership, including on missile defence, between India and the US, which has also allowed India to gain ground and influence in Afghanistan?

Finally, just to see beyond our immediate region, we need to also pay greater attention to the resurgence of Japan as a military power. The Abe government is getting legislation through which will allow Japan to use its military force in support of allies overseas even if Japan itself is not under attack. This is a major shift in Japanese policy and comes at a time when not only is the Sino-Japanese territorial conflict becoming more accentuated, but when the US is challenging China in the South China Sea.Pakistan has to realign its policies in the light of these global and regional alignments that are being created. For instance, the CPEC is a strategic goal but it will be subject to increasing pressures from external players strongly opposed to this project because it extends China’s reach into West Asia and beyond. We have to rethink our relations with our Arab neighbours, especially with the IS threat that is being extended across West Asia into our region. We cannot simply be the supplier of mercenary forces to protect monarchies. Most critically, we have to have a rational approach to both Afghanistan and India – that is not strewn either with unrealistic euphoria or sudden despair, both of which lead to erratic behaviour premised on short-term gains which normally tend to translate into long-term losses.With India, especially, we should not be in a hurry for rapprochement. Let the Modi government take a long, hard look at its negative policies and their regional repercussions. Meanwhile we should evolve a clearly stated position on our terms and conditions for any dialogue. Most importantly we need to get out of a psychological confidence deficit our ruling elite has thrust us in since 9/11 and which external powers continue to exploit.
Email: callstr@hotmail.com

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Aug 2015 04:21

Paki Propagandist / Apologist - Nafeez Ahmed - Recycles 'Old' Allegations About 26/11

This exclusive

is published by INSURGE INTELLIGENCE, a new crowd-funded investigative journalism project

A senior Indian police officer and anti-corruption investigator last month accused the Indian government of orchestrating the Mumbai terror attacks which occurred nearly seven years ago, according to an Indian government official.

The rest of the farticle 'reports' previously reported information by various other media

and deems it 'exclusive' under his so-called ' 'crowd funded investigative journalism project'
( nothing wrong here !after all, the guy has to make a living, when times are tough

)

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Aug 2015 04:37

'Ganja' Sharif Unleashes Secret Weapon Against Imran Khan

'See you in battlefield', challenges Maryam Nawaz

ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – Maryam Nawaz challenged Imran Khan to battle it out ‘battlefield’ on Thursday. She said that Ayaz Sadiq will beat Imran Khan in NA-122 elections for the third time in a row, reported Dunya News.

In a statement from her Twitter account, Maryam Nawaz said that she will see Imran Khan ‘in battlefield’. She said that Imran Khan’s defeat in NA-122 will be the real hat-trick.

Maryam Nawaz said that hiding behind technical difficulties is easy yet fighting in the battlefield is not adding that a majority of the party is in favor of going to by-elections.

She said that masses are the real power of the party and not some ‘umpire or umpire’s finger’.

Borrowing a leaf from Ten - Percenti's book

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Aug 2015 05:05

Pakistani-American elected president of pro-Israel group

[*][/url]

[*] Is she now Wajib- Ul- Qatal in Pakiland

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 28 Aug 2015 05:26

Madam ~~Mazari~~ Madari

hopes to right the wrongs, of the present administration once she assumes the role of Foreign Minister under an Imran Khan Government ( if and when it happens)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Aug 2015 05:49

Anujan wrote:Pakistan failed to get US support for plebiscite in Kashmir after 1965 war, say declassified docs
. . . "He (Bhutto) said the Pakistanis would sell all their possessions, even their family heirlooms in order to get the means to continue the struggle until the Indian invasion repulsed and Kashmiri rights established. . . . and Bhutto responded, 'Then let them destroy Pakistan!'"[/b] Bhutto said 'We must be either degraded as nation or prevail. We prepared fight to finish,"

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto is the true destroyer of Pakistan. "Sell family heirlooms", "eat grass" etc. were not mere posturing for him. He truly believed in them and did everything to reduce Pakistan to those precise levels. Long back, I had posted also how he was the one who laid the foundation for deep Islamization too, even before Zia. However, Gen. Zia became a convenient coat-hanger later on. The true villain is ZAB.