Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Falijee » 31 Aug 2015 23:18

Ganja Sharif Plays 'Dehati Aurat ' And Also Gives 'Proof' To Uncle Sam :D

Proof of RAW’s interference handed over to U.S :eek:

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Sunday briefed the US National Security Adviser (NSA) Dr Susan Rice on the unprovoked Indian firing at the Line of Control (LoC) and Working Boundary and handed her the proof [*] of Indian intelligence agency RAW’s interference and military and financial support to terrorists on its soil.[*] of Indian intelligence agency RAW’s interference and military and financial support to terrorists on its soil.

[*] Based On the GI.G.O Principle :D Garbage - In - Garbage - Out

Highly-placed diplomatic sources told The News after the talks that Pakistan had impressed upon Dr. Rice that the US should play an assertive role :?: in stopping India from aggression. :roll:


“The United States should use its influence on India to stop it from aggression and compel it to respond to Pakistan’s sincere gestures in the same coin,”[*] the prime minister said.


[*] Wonder who is the Dehati Aurat now? :mrgreen:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby KLNMurthy » 31 Aug 2015 23:44

Falijee wrote:
...

“The United States should use its influence on India to stop it from aggression and compel it to respond to Pakistan’s sincere gestures in the same coin,”[*] the prime minister said.

...

Mashallah may Mian Sahib's mouth be stuffed with sugar and ghee, may his teeth and arteries rot.

I hope India pays back all of paki sincere gestures in exactly the same coin.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Johann » 01 Sep 2015 00:12

Hullo Shreeman! I swing by around every 6 months or so for a short round of brickbats and bouquets, and its about that time.

As far as the PA goes, they really do go all out to protect their Chinese friends, and in ways that often make things worse for themselves. The military over-reaction to the kidnapping of the Chinese engineers in Balochistan back in 2003 escalated the conflict and radicalised many young Balochs and re-ignited a dormant insurgency tying down tens of thousands of troops. In the same way Musharraf ignored the Lal Masjid's assault on the CDA's authority until the ninjas started attacking Islamabad's Chinese population in 2007. That escalation blew up, and the result was 100,000 troops tied down in FATA and KPK steadily losing casualties.

CPEC is no different. From what I understand the PA is promising almost the equivalent of a division to protect all the Chinese workers and projects associated with CPEC. But as you can imagine, there will be conflicts - with jihadi groups angry with the state (or the Chinese) who need to make a statement, with separatist groups who want to do the same thing, with local interests who've been displaced or screwed over. And the PA will have to wade into all those problems, most likely creating new ones as it goes along.

In Afghanistan despite the Chinese buying everyone out (with both Pakistani and Afghan govt interest in seeing the Chinese succeed), the security situation was just too chaotic for its mega mining projects at Hajigak and Ayni to work. Its entirely possible for things to get that way in parts of Pakistan and disrupt CPEC, which is basically China's Marshall Plan to Pakistan, except the stakes are higher for Beijing if it fails because unlike the Americans they don't have an ocean to insulate them. The PA is busy trying to kill anyone with a gun who might be trouble, but we'll see how well that works.

I don't expect Daesh/IS in Pakistan and Afghanistan to be anywhere as effective as it is in the Fertile Crescent. Its a collection of semi-educated, rural factions who lost out in the leadership struggles for the TTP and Afghan Taliban, and are now going to sulk together as violently and petulantly as they can. The core cadre of the Arab Daesh is a much higher calibre - educated Baathist officers and civil servants who know how to organise and run a real state. But I do expect that the desi/Pakhtun Daesh will be more effective than the TTP in causing mayhem within Pakistan, just because they will be inside a properly transnational network, and that will give them far more options.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby A_Gupta » 01 Sep 2015 01:22

So is it agreed that

* Pakistan might be able to extract some protection money from China in return for no refuge for Uighur separatists; but in the net it will cost Pakistan more than they get.

* Pakistan will not be able to extract protection money from Russia. Period.

What about Pakistan increasing in strategic value to China with the evaporation of sanctions on Iran?

I think I took from the above that the South China Sea is far more important to China. (Also, I think if Iran integrates with Central Asia better via rail links and road links and transit agreements and pipelines, it is way better for China than CPEC. Any thoughts on that?)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby CRamS » 01 Sep 2015 01:27

Guys, I double checked and this is indeed a latest report :-); is US playing bad cop, while its German brothers playing good cop?

http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-insists- ... 22387.html

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Prem » 01 Sep 2015 01:40

Pakistan could become region's most water-stressed country by 2040: report

Jiksa Unhe Thaa Intazaar,woh Ghaari aa Rahi

With Pakistan failing to improve water governance and taking measures to save rapidly-depleting water resources, climate change coupled with rapid urbanisation and population growth would further impact the availability of water, making it one of the most water-stressed countries of the world.According to the data released by the World Resources Institute (WRI), which defines water stress as the ratio between total water withdrawals and available renewable surface water at a sub-catchment level, Pakistan is predicted to be the most water stressed country in the region by the year 2040.
The report, which scores every country on the scale of zero to five, with the higher number representing the most water-stressed, stated by 2040 Pakistan would be 23rd most water-stressed country in the world with an average score of 4.48, unless it changes its ways and works on water conservation.On the contrary, the water stress situation is likely to improve slightly in India. The report predicts that water stress being faced by Indians is likely to drop from 3.70 in 2020 to 3.61 by 2040.The WRI’s report said that the Middle East, which is already the least water-secured region in the world, would face exceptional water-related challenges for the foreseeable future as 14 of the 33 most likely water-stressed countries in 2040 are in the Middle East, including nine of which are considered extremely highly stressed with a score of 5.0 out of 5.0. These are Bahrain, Kuwait, Palestine, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Oman and Lebanon.Quoting the Saudi Arabian government, the report said from 2016 onwards, the Kingdom will rely on grain imports for domestic use due to fear of a further depletion of water resources.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Shreeman » 01 Sep 2015 01:42

Johann,

2003 was different. Osammi was still relevent. Musharraf was flush with funds. Lal masjid was the first go around of domestic nationalistic ijlam.

Thr chinese (thousand+ dead in KKH construction) arent really known for worrying about either security concerns or loss of lives. Its really a matter of "not just now,I have got a date" for china in afghanistan, simply being otherwise occupied. They will swing back.

There is no martial plan for bakistan, CPEC or no CPEC. China likes myanmar route far better, and would even do bangladesh/india/nepal killing many birds with one stone. The bakistanis can promkse the moon, sun and the earth but NATO convoys were still routinely torched. China isnt going to be much different. Bakistans development lies with likes of bahria. China WILL build a few roads, but in bakistan they will remain as productive as gwadar. The people arent for china. They arent pro chinese. So while its great to do showpiece projects (coal fired plant here, a road there), the deficit of ijlam in china is a huge hurdle in day to day unprotected, high volume commerce.

China sees this as one of the many routes to arabian sea. No grand reconstruction. If they said so, the good sharif will lose face, and bad sharif will see a revolt. So big words in the great hall of the people. Just like Ms Rice staging in Ijlaamapaad right now. Tje outcome is mud, will remain mud.

Manpower (or bakistani mard power) only works against minorities. Even if they do stand a division to guard said new commerce route, do you really foresee thrm being any good? No, I dont see the chinese gambling here. They have a good thing going with bakistan, more loyal thsn a neutered pet. They will make good noises and keep the dog hungry so it stays loyal.

The Daesh isnt recruiting brand new madarassa trainees. They are adding defectors. They will br just as effective as they were with their former outfits. The odd vacuum formation here or there but no karachi airport. TTP is actually tribal and ideological at some level, and with the P3s, the AWACS, or the airport they werent symbolic. Lets see if IS ever gather any sort of courage beyond petty extortion.

What is lacking now -- for any outfit -- is the institutional focus (there is plenty of men and material), the powers are busy realigning, reorganising real estate, and regaining lost strategic depth. There is no space for Daesh etc to headline anything. I dont believe they will amount to much in bakistan--afghanistan. A district here or there is nothing. Any random warlord has that.

best.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Johann » 01 Sep 2015 01:58

Hi AG,

- Iran is difficult to directly access because Turkmenistan which as a bit of a hermit kingdom wont provide a corridor to anyone (Americans, Russians, Chinese), and that means China can only reach Iran through either Afghanistan or Pakistan. That's part of the long term value to them of stabilising Pakistan. Its still their only direct or indirect route to the Persian Gulf.

- The Russians are already treating Pakistan as China's junior partner. That means Russia's quid pro quo will often boil down to permitting sales of defence technology items to Pakistan, either indirectly via China, or even directly to Pakistan in the areas the Chinese are still behind, like aircraft engines. It also means that Pakistan's relationship with Russia will be less contentious than before. Ultimately things will depend on the state of Russo-Chinese relationship, which post-Crimea is good but tilted in China's favour.

- The short term direct economic benefits of CPEC to China will be very small in comparison to investments in places like Kazakhstan or even Bangladesh, but again, but its a venture capital experiment. CPEC is more than a cash bribe from the Chinese. Its a co-investment, and the Pakistanis are the ones who have to bear most of the security costs as their share. I think it will provide some economic growth to Pakistan, but at very high (internal) political cost. But in many ways in comparison to US aid, the economic bump will be much more sustained given that the investment is in productive infrastructure for political costs that are about what they've gotten used to.

Hi Shreeman,

The Chinese aren't going abroad to die in numbers. They're going abroad to make money. The security costs of the mines in Afghanistan make them unprofitable to operate, and either the situation would have to improve, or the cost of copper and iron would have to go through the roof. In part they're hoping that a new economic relationship with Pakistan will change Afghanistan as well.

The Marshall Plan financed a lot of projects in Western Europe....but it was up to Europe to make the most of those investments to stabilise themselves, grow their economies and build up trade. The Chinese are investing in highways to start with. Much of the trade will be non-strategic commercial trade, moving on Pakistani trucks - low risk, but potentially useful. If the Pakistanis show they can provide security, the Chinese will put in the railway lines and eventually pipelines. But yes, they'll wait to see if the Pakistanis can delivery security, and even so they are investing in alternatives.

The power plants are a much more complicated thing. That was something Nawaz desperately wants to show the public that he's tackling the energy crisis. But the Pakistanis are going to have to really sort out a lot of things to make that happen, and confront dysfunctionalities in their bureaucracy and political economy, especially if they want the Chinese to own and operate them. Its much more complicated than paying for a deepwater port or highways. The Chinese have very different expectations for projects they're handing over as investments in a bilateral relationship, and projects they're expecting to operate at a profit.

Lastly, Daesh in terms overseas operations has been phenomenally good at radicalising and recruiting lone wolves and small cells, and inspiring them to commit psychologically devastating acts of violence that shake public confidence and tie down huge resources in order to prevent attacks. That's part of what they'd be bringing to Pakistan. As I said, I don't expect them to take and hold much territory. They don't have the right cadre for that. But Army Public School style massacres and other traumatising kinds of urban terrorism are entirely in their reach. The 'Punjabi Taliban' problem has barely begun - but much of the LeJ and their army of supporters in the ASWJ will be very interested in the Daesh message; they have no love for the state or the pampered classes.
Last edited by Johann on 01 Sep 2015 02:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Shreeman » 01 Sep 2015 02:37

Johann,

I broadly concur, but it is far lesser like a reconstruction plan than for europe. The europeans were desperate to get back to pre-war civic services. Bakistanis have never known any functional civic setup. It will always be apples and oranges.

Re. security, degrading security is also a business. There are too many stakeholders in the current status quo. From the highway robbers to private security guards. Ransom is a source of income for many. It will take more than lip service to fix this, so I am not optimistic.

I brought up power, just to highlight the challenges you note. The complexity in transport is the same. Railway is actually safer and easier for freight, if it were not for the logistical cell wanting that piece of the pie. None of it is quite feasible at the moment -- not road, rail, or sea.

Lets revisit in a year and see how much of the $43b is put to work.

ps -- no dying is not a priority for chinese, but from tianjin to kkh to afghanistan, it also does not get in the way of profit making. Bakistan (and for the moment afg) is not a profit center.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby A_Gupta » 01 Sep 2015 02:46

Thanks, Johann, one more question for you. If you compare the cost of the coal power plants (billions of $$ per 1000 MW installed capacity) that China is planning to build, is building (Port Qasim, Sahiwal) or has MoUs for with the cost of coal power plants built or being built by Adani, Tata, Reliance in India, Bangladesh & Vietnam, there is a significant difference. The Indian companies come in at around $1 billion/1000 MW; while China comes in at $1.5 billion/1000 MW. The Chinese numbers for Pakistan do not include the cost of port & rail improvements needed to hauling coal; these are additional.

Assume that China is actually as efficient or better than the Indian companies. What does that tell you? :)

PS: Turkmenistan is on the move?
http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/is-turkm ... ian-tiger/

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Prem » 01 Sep 2015 03:17

Paki Deaf Minnister;From Aattmi Qubbat to Aattmi Qubbat by Aattmi Qubbat.


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby RamaY » 01 Sep 2015 03:46

That said, there will be no need for GCC handouts if Pakistan plays it smart. With the Islamic State (IS) rising in Afghanistan, the country’s strategic importance is assured. After the US stops bankrolling the Coalition Support Fund (CSF) in 2016, China and Russia will find means to make up the difference since IS directly threatens their interests. Also, when resource-rich Iran opens up, Pakistan’s value as a trading partner and crucial pit-stop on China’s ‘One Belt, One Road’ project will increase manifold.


This is the key point! A Paki/Islamist always thinks like a Paki/Islamist.

ISIS can be a useful tool in Pakistan's hands. It only need to find few thousand Muslims in sub-continent to regain Lal-Qilla!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby RamaY » 01 Sep 2015 03:57

Johann wrote:IS is only a direct threat to China if it becomes a significant force in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

For the Chinese the number one thing was always keeping jihad and weapons out of Xinjiang. Number two was economically integrating western China with the global economy.

The Afghan Taliban never rejected the idea of nation-states, or the basic idea of the international system which meant China and them had a common language and could cut deals. The Taliban if anything had more of an issue with the Pakistani border than the Chinese one.

I'm not sure if the IS franchise that's opening up in the region shares exactly the world view and operating system of the original, but if they are anything like the originals there can be transactions, but anything mutual understanding will be much harder.

In particular successful IS growth will threaten CPEC and everything its supposed to achieve for the Chinese in terms of regional stability and growth, and the stability and growth of Xinjiang which is again what they really care about.


By allowing few Indians free, ISIS demonstrated that it's main focus is to free Islamic Nations from Munafiqs. Looking from that angle, ISIS is a friend of China & Russia.

Since Pakistan-China friendship is fatter than Rishi Kapoor, Pakistan can have better traction by facilitating ISIS-China deal like it did with US-China deal.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Y I Patel » 01 Sep 2015 06:19

It would be a mistake to think that Pakistan Army is a monolith, and IMHO the recent events leading up to the cancelled dialogue with India as well as the events in Afghanistan are a sign of fissures opening up. I believe we are seeing signs to this effect: one faction is the motivator of Zarb-e-Azb which is as serious as you can get, and willing to indirectly countenance dropping the K word in a dialogue with India so that the overstretched PA troops get some breathing space on one front. And then there is the other faction that believes that this is no time to be pulling in the claws in Afg, and too delusional to do anything but stick to the old mantra of no peace without a solution to Kashmir. This schism has ramifications elsewhere that the faction in denial is overlooking: China now has a vested interest in peace and stability in the region to make CPEC a reality and to recoup investments in Afg.

And that brings up a second major point - all these Chinese investments in CPEC can only be recouped over a very long period. If they are going to rely on more debt to make these investments, they just are not going to make a quick buck, even if the whole region magically becomes a haven of peace. So given the current mess the Chinese economy is in, will they still have the appetite to go through with CPEC? Seems to me that Pak is going to face the perfect storm soon when all sugar daddies decide to cut baby doll loose. America withdraws CSF, Middle East Sheikhdoms their patronage over their Yemen miff (and also because they will be under financial pressures with the low price of oil), and now China is catching the economic flu as well... if this situation continues for a few years, it will be unprecedented in Pakistan's history since its creation when it has been able to count on one, two or more of these benefactors at any given time! Quo Vadis Pachy?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2015 09:03

‘Bhutto got away with objectionable remarks’ - The Hindu
Former External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh , who was posted at India’s permanent mission at the U.N. in 1965, speaks on the high drama at the Security Council.

In 1965, the Pakistanis had underestimated India militarily. They didn’t succeed, and far from welcoming them, Kashmiris were hostile to Pakistani incursions. India had an upper hand militarily at the time in the 1965 war when U.N. Secretary-General U Thant brought the matter to the Security Council on September 3, 1965.

As the first secretary at the Permanent Mission of India at the U.N., I was part of the delegation in the Council hall. Our Permanent Representative to the U.N. was G. Parthasarathi (senior diplomat who later became PM Indira Gandhi’s adviser), and Brajesh Mishra (diplomat who became Principal Secretary and NSA to PM Vajpayee).

First PM Shastri sent M.C. Chagla as our representative, but Bhutto really let him have it and Chagla was no match for Bhutto’s unbridled abuse on Kashmir.

Shastri then decided to send his Foreign Minister Sardar Swaran Singh to counter Bhutto. Singh and Bhutto knew each other as they had been in talks for about six months, and Singh had a great gift of being able to speak for a long time, unperturbed by disturbances. :rotfl: {as the series of meetings between Sardar and a frustrated ZAB shows}

We told Foreign Minister Swaran Singh, “Sir, we have to do something. Mr. Bhutto makes these objectionable speeches, and gets away with it, and we have to send a strong message to the UNSC.” So he said, “what should we do?” Brajesh Mishra and I said, “Let’s walk out the next time he speaks.” Now neither Swaran Singh nor G. Parthasarathi had done anything this unconventional so far. But we persisted, so Swaran Singh called PM Shastri. Shastriji said, “Sardar Sahib you are on the spot, you decide what to do.”

So we decided to wait for Bhutto to start his invective. As soon as he did, Sardar Sahib called a point of order. Bhutto objected. Swaran Singh carried on. At the end of his speech the four of us: Singh, Parthasarathi, Mishra and I stood up and marched out. Even as we walked out, Bhutto said, “Indian dogs are leaving.” But Bhutto’s point-scoring speech was short-sighted, and our walkout had a bigger impact on the UNSC. Stunned by our reaction to Bhutto’s speech, they lost interest in engaging with India and Pakistan on Kashmir. As a result, there was hardly any reference to Kashmir for the next few decades at the UNSC, barring one resolution after the 1971 war. The credit should really go to Swaran Singh, who decided in that moment to put convention aside and simply walk out of the U.N. Security Council.

(As told to Suhasini Haidar)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby A_Gupta » 01 Sep 2015 09:11

^^^
... and our walkout had a bigger impact on the UNSC. Stunned by our reaction to Bhutto’s speech, they lost interest in engaging with India and Pakistan on Kashmir.


Worth remembering: Not everything is aimed at Pakistan directly; some of it undercuts its potential audience.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2015 09:40

Someone please educate me about "CPEC".

It appears to me that this economic corridor will be closed in the winter months. It will be open from April to October; closed from November to March.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2015 09:49

India’s walkout from UNSC was a turning point: Natwar - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
Even as the government celebrates India’s “forgotten war” with Pakistan in 1965, India’s former External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh says India’s “silent diplomatic victory” at the end of the war must not be forgotten either.

According to Mr. Singh, posted at India’s permanent mission at the U.N. then, 1965 was a “turning point” for the U.N. on Kashmir, and a well-planned “walkout” from the U.N. Security Council by the Indian delegation as a protest against Pakistani Foreign Minister (and later PM) Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s speech ensured Kashmir was dropped from the UNSC agenda for all practical purposes.

“As a result, there was hardly any reference to Kashmir for the next few decades at the UNSC, barring one resolution after the 1971 war. The Soviet Union helped by vetoing many of the resolutions Pakistan tried to push, and after the Simla Agreement of 1972, which committed to a bilateral resolution, the UNSC references to Kashmir ended entirely,” Mr. Singh recounted, in an exclusive interview to The Hindu on the occasion of the 1965 war’s 50th anniversary.

Just one resolution

According to the records, between 1948 and 1965 the UNSC passed 23 resolutions on Kashmir. After 1965, the U.N. body passed just one resolution (Resolution 307, December 21, 1971), calling on India and Pakistan to “respect the ceasefire line” after the Bangladesh war.

Mr. Singh said it took diplomats several years to reverse Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru’s “original sin” of taking the issue of Kashmir to the UNSC in 1948. “To begin with, PM Nehru should never have taken the issue to the UNSC at all, but even when the government did, it should have been listed under Chapter 7 citing Pakistani “aggression”, rather than Chapter 6 which deals with the peaceful resolution of “disputes”,” the former diplomat said

The criticism was unusual for Mr. Singh who joined the Congress after he retired, and was External Affairs Minister from 2004-2005 until he had to resign over the Volcker controversy.

Mr. Singh said that while he was a “supporter of Nehru,” India’s first Prime Minister was “a better PM than he was a Foreign Minister.”

“I think Nehru acted in good faith. But that good faith is still costing us in terms of our position at the UN. Another minefield we should have avoided was to let the Soviet Union broker the Tashkent Agreement (Ceasefire agreement, January 1966). Fortunately that didn’t become a precedent or we couldn’t have kept ‘third parties’ out of negotiations.”


‘Pakistan at it again’

Recounting his time at the United Nations (1962-1966), Mr. Singh said it is apparent that Pakistan is aiming to “internationalise” the Kashmir issue once again by repeatedly taking petitions to the U.N. In August this year, it raised the issue of firing at the LoC with U.N. officials more than once, and in a briefing to the UNSC, Pakistan Ambassador Maleeha Lodhi said multilateral organisations like the U.N. and the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation) should play a role in resolving the “Jammu & Kashmir dispute.”

“We should be prepared for Pakistan raising the Kashmir issue at the General Assembly. And if they do we should just not respond. Or send a junior officer to respond to them. Nothing pleases them more than if our PM uses the UNGA forum to respond to their PM, as our Prime Ministers have done in the past two years.”
Both Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in 2013 and PM Narendra Modi in 2014 responded to Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif’s UNGA statements on Kashmir.

“We must give credit to Swaran Singh [then Foreign Minister] and to the Indian decision in 1965 for ensuring Kashmir stayed out of the UNSC for several decades,” Mr. Singh said {Sardar Swaran Singh was certainly a sterling personality}

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Multatuli » 01 Sep 2015 11:11

From the article posted by SSridhar

Even as we walked out, Bhutto said, “Indian dogs are leaving.”


Bhutto said this in a UN meeting!

He also called Bangladeshis 'suar ke bacche'.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18p1m ... -1971_news

Bhutto bared his true character, a bully, someone who advocated mass murder (let them go to hell). He was the Mussolini of Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2015 12:41

Terror threat continues to emanate from inside Pakistan: US - PTI
WASHINGTON: The US has said that the threat from terrorist groups, in particular the Haqqani network, continues to emanate from inside Pakistan, dismissing top Pakistani diplomat's claim that the dreaded group responsible for audacious attacks in Afghanistan has been wiped out.

"We recognise that there's still threat from these terrorist groups emanating from Pakistan. We want to see Pakistan take additional steps to address some of these threats," State Department Spokesman Mark Toner told reporters at his daily news conference yesterday.

Toner was responding to a question about the remarks made by advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister on foreign affairs and national security Sartaj Aziz that military offensives in its tribal areas had almost wiped out the Haqqani network, a claim to which there are not many takers in the United States.

"The infrastructure supporting Haqqani network in North Waziristan has been dismantled," Aziz had said yesterday.

"The National Security Adviser (Susan) Rice was just there (in Islamabad) and she had very frank and productive conversations with her counterparts about the continuing threat and violence in the region and ways we can best counter act it," Toner said.

"In terms of the Haqqani network and really the violence that we see from the Taliban and the Haqqani network, we really want to double down, on trying to stop these groups from carrying out other acts of terror," Toner said, which appears contrary to Aziz's claim that the Haqqani network no longer exists in Pakistan.

Earlier, the Pentagon echoed the State Department on the Haqqani network, the dreaded group blamed for some of the deadliest attacks in Afghanistan, including the Indian embassy bombing and the attack on Kabul Serena Hotel in 2008.

"We have expressed our deep concern to the government of Pakistan about terrorist sanctuaries inside its border that continues to undermine Afghanistan stability and US and coalition forces in Afghanistan," Pentagon spokesman Capt Jeff Davis told reporters during an off camera news conference.

"We have urged the Government of Pakistan to redouble its standing commitment on the counter terrorism cooperation with Afghanistan against all groups that pose threat to long term security to both Afghanistan and Pakistan," he said.

Davis said the Haqqani network from inside Pakistan "clearly poses a threat" to US forces in Afghanistan.

"That is one of the reasons why we continue to workwith the Government of Pakistan to ensure that that threat is addressed. We are hopeful that they would do what they need to do to achieve necessary progress against the Haqqani."

US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter has not taken a decision on certifying that Pakistan is taking action against the Haqqani network that would help the Pentagon release $300 million under the Coalition Support Fund.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby AjayKK » 01 Sep 2015 15:28

Simmering Border Heat

Aug 28, 2015, by Ullekh NP, Open Magazine

NSA-level talks called off. LoC tensions on the rise. Non-state actors on a rampage. Is Pakistan’s military brass emboldened by an upcoming opportunity in Afghanistan?


http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... order-heat

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby A_Gupta » 01 Sep 2015 15:54

Afghan refugees evicted from Pakistan
http://reliefweb.int/report/afghanistan ... e-pakistan

KABUL -- Only a month ago, Naimatullah was running a school for Afghan migrants in the Pakistani town of Sialkot -- a place he had called home for over two decades.

But then one night, Pakistani police stormed his home and ordered his family to leave. When Naimatullah refused, he says police beat him up and detained his younger brother. The next day, the authorities leveled his home, located in a predominately Afghan neighborhood.

Now, Naimatullah finds himself living in squalor in a makeshift refugee camp on the outskirts of the Afghan capital, Kabul. He has no job and lives off the meager handouts he receives from the government and foreign aid groups.

"We don't have shelter, there's no work, and there's no food," says Naimatullah, who lives with his family of six in a cramped camp in Kabul's Pul-e Charkhi district. "Winter is coming and we don't have anything to make a fire with. We face every problem."

Naimatullah -- a stocky, bearded, middle-aged man -- could not return to his native village in the northern Afghan province of Kunduz, the scene of the Taliban's bloody summer offensive. He was forced to head to Afghanistan's capital, where he says he has once again become a refugee.

Naimatullah is one of tens of thousands of Afghan refugees to have returned in recent months claiming to have been beaten by police, detained, and evicted from their homes in Pakistan.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 01 Sep 2015 17:09, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Falijee » 01 Sep 2015 15:54

U.A.E Stops Purchasing Naphta From Pakistan :mrgreen:

ISLAMABAD (Staff Report) – The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has stopped purchasing Petroleum Naphtha from Pakistan after a $80 billion deal with India, Trade Minister Khurram Dastagir has confirmed.


During the first month of this fiscal, Petroleum Crude of more than Rs2 billion was exported to UAE but only 7117 MT Excel Top Naphtha worth Rs580m could be exported due to 36 per cent decline in exports.

The export of Top Naphtha has reduced to absolutely zero.


Would Pakistan's 'wrong' decision on Yemen and the recent visit of Modiji, have anything to do with this ? Just wondering :roll:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby K Mehta » 01 Sep 2015 16:01

The unkil "riot act" reading is more about ghani losing the Afghan government than anything else.
Ghani has spent all his political capital on getting pakis to get the tellibunnies to stop. The bad sheriff has been unable to do that. Unkil is holding pakis responsible for this (quite rightly).
Don't forget that Abdullah is breathing down ghani's neck and ghani is unkil's man in Kabul, brought there by lot of rigging. If after all that he falls due to pakis inability to rein in the bunnies, they gotta be at least told off.

PS: The validity of CSF is ending anyways

I think a new bill is needed for further CSF moolah. The 2015 here means September 2015, the time considered by the US budget (gurus plz clarify or correct). From September onwards a new bill might be needed.
Already 1 billion dollar has been given in 2015, which is the maximum that can be given as per tribunepk link below.

Old links

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/india/us-send ... 94090.html

The agreement will be valid till the end of 2015


http://m.thehindu.com/news/internationa ... 708297.ece

Though there is a written document now detailing the terms and conditions for GLOC, the details of the MoU were not made public. However, according to officials in the know of the negotiations that have been going on, the MoU is valid till the end of 2015 with a provision for renewal should the necessity arise.


http://tribune.com.pk/story/802122/fina ... ear-lease/
Last edited by K Mehta on 01 Sep 2015 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby K Mehta » 01 Sep 2015 16:03

Falijee, that is huge. A 2-3 billion dollars hole in paki dekhonomoney is a kick where it hurts the most. Please cross post in pest watch thread.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Peregrine » 01 Sep 2015 16:19

Falijee wrote:U.A.E Stops Purchasing Naphta From Pakistan :mrgreen:

ISLAMABAD (Staff Report) – The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has stopped purchasing Petroleum Naphtha from Pakistan after a $80 billion deal with India, Trade Minister Khurram Dastagir has confirmed.


During the first month of this fiscal, Petroleum Crude of more than Rs2 billion was exported to UAE but only 7117 MT Excel Top Naphtha worth Rs580m could be exported due to 36 per cent decline in exports.

The export of Top Naphtha has reduced to absolutely zero.


Would Pakistan's 'wrong' decision on Yemen and the recent visit of Modiji, have anything to do with this ? Just wondering :roll:


Falijee Ji :

Cwapistan Expowting Petwoleum Cwude to UAE??? Weally!

Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby gakakkad » 01 Sep 2015 16:23

An 80 Billion dollar naphtha deal ? looks like light travels > c in poaqroachistan...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Bhurishrava » 01 Sep 2015 17:04

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... dChannel=0

Four killed, dozens wounded, in suicide attack on Pakistan forces

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Viv S » 01 Sep 2015 17:34

SSridhar wrote:US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter has not taken a decision on certifying that Pakistan is taking action against the Haqqani network that would help the Pentagon release $300 million under the Coalition Support Fund.


Ashton Carter was supposed to sanction CSF funds for Pakistan? :lol:

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Postby ArmenT » 01 Sep 2015 18:34

I think there will be some rioting by Pakistanis in the next few days over the following news, both in Pakistan and the UK. Expect TV sets to be smashed in the streets and KFCs to be burned.
Carbon dating suggests early Quran is older than Muhammad
Carbon dating suggests that the Quran, or at least portions of it, may actually be older than the prophet Muhammad himself. If the findings are proven true, it could rewrite early Islamic history and shed doubt on the "heavenly" origins of the holy text.

Scholars now believe that a copy Quran held by the Birmingham Library was actually written sometime between 545 AD and 568, while the Prophet Mohammad was believed to have been born in 570 AD and to have died in 632 AD. The copy of the widely used holy text held by the library is known for being one of the oldest in the world.

Scholars came to this conclusion after researchers carbon dated a small piece of parchment from the Islamic holy book. The carbon dating, which is considered to be extremely accurate, suggests that the Quran may have actually been written before Muhammad was alive, or during the early years of his childhood.

The Quran held by the Birmingham Library is believed to be the oldest known copy in the world. It should be noted, however, that the documents held at the library are not a complete copy of the holy text, instead containing text only for suras (chapters) 18 to 20.
If the carbon dating analysis proves to be accurate, it would raise serious questions as to the origin of the Islamic holy book.
...
...
Some scholars believe, however, that Muhammad did not receive the Quran from heaven, as he claimed during his lifetime, but instead collected texts and scripts that fit his political agenda.

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Re:

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2015 18:43

ArmenT wrote:I think there will be some rioting by Pakistanis in the next few days over the following news, both in Pakistan and the UK. Expect TV sets to be smashed in the streets and KFCs to be burned.
Carbon dating suggests early Quran is older than Muhammad


AoA onlee. This is definitely a conspiracy of Yahud-Hanud-Nassara.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2015 18:47

Falijee wrote: Would Pakistan's 'wrong' decision on Yemen and the recent visit of Modiji, have anything to do with this ? Just wondering

No, not at all. Based on my observation, Allah Ta'la had always been unkind to Pakistan from Day One.

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Re:

Postby Mihaylo » 01 Sep 2015 19:06

ArmenT wrote:I think there will be some rioting by Pakistanis in the next few days over the following news, both in Pakistan and the UK. Expect TV sets to be smashed in the streets and KFCs to be burned.
Carbon dating suggests early Quran is older than Muhammad
Carbon dating suggests that the Quran, or at least portions of it, may actually be older than the prophet Muhammad himself. If the findings are proven true, it could rewrite early Islamic history and shed doubt on the "heavenly" origins of the holy text.

Scholars now believe that a copy Quran held by the Birmingham Library was actually written sometime between 545 AD and 568, while the Prophet Mohammad was believed to have been born in 570 AD and to have died in 632 AD. The copy of the widely used holy text held by the library is known for being one of the oldest in the world.

Scholars came to this conclusion after researchers carbon dated a small piece of parchment from the Islamic holy book. The carbon dating, which is considered to be extremely accurate, suggests that the Quran may have actually been written before Muhammad was alive, or during the early years of his childhood.

The Quran held by the Birmingham Library is believed to be the oldest known copy in the world. It should be noted, however, that the documents held at the library are not a complete copy of the holy text, instead containing text only for suras (chapters) 18 to 20.
If the carbon dating analysis proves to be accurate, it would raise serious questions as to the origin of the Islamic holy book.
...
...
Some scholars believe, however, that Muhammad did not receive the Quran from heaven, as he claimed during his lifetime, but instead collected texts and scripts that fit his political agenda.


Did the scholars tear a piece of quran paper to conduct the carbon dating ? If so JEHAAARD !!!!

-M

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby saip » 01 Sep 2015 19:07

What carbon dating? It is not mentioned in Quran and so it is as fake as DNA evidence to prove rape.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Baikul » 01 Sep 2015 19:48

Carbon dating is irrelevant. Dating is clearly not allowed, unless of course one is dating Ayesha.

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Re:

Postby RajeshA » 01 Sep 2015 20:04



It seems that Quran is then the work of some RAA Agint.

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Re: Re:

Postby Prem » 01 Sep 2015 21:22

RajeshA wrote:
ArmenT wrote:Carbon dating suggests early Quran is older than MuhammadIt seems that Quran is then the work of some RAA Agint.


Isalmists believe in Carbomb die-ting & Caar-bun Dating not in Carbon dating.

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Re: Re:

Postby Rahul M » 01 Sep 2015 21:37

SSridhar wrote:
ArmenT wrote:I think there will be some rioting by Pakistanis in the next few days over the following news, both in Pakistan and the UK. Expect TV sets to be smashed in the streets and KFCs to be burned.
Carbon dating suggests early Quran is older than Muhammad


AoA onlee. This is definitely a conspiracy of Yahud-Hanud-Nassara.

fun and games apart. parchments were often stored for long periods. age of parchment and something written on it not necessarily same. animal hide is even worse since it can be re-used.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Falijee » 01 Sep 2015 21:42

It seems to me that the Pakis import the crude from UAE and other 'brotherly' nations of the ME ; process the raw material into gasoline (petroleum, etc ) and then re -export the by- product,NAPTHA (value added to the product ) according to this deal with UAE ; now with the 'wrong' Yemen decision, the UAE has made good it's recent outburst ( "Pakistan will pay a heavy price.......") ; more such pro - India 'decisions' are in the pipeline following Modiji's recent visit :mrgreen:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10,

Postby Prem » 01 Sep 2015 22:26

Falijee wrote:It seems to me that the Pakis import the crude from UAE and other 'brotherly' nations of the ME ; process the raw material into gasoline (petroleum, etc ) and then re -export the by- product,NAPTHA (value added to the product ) according to this deal with UAE ; now with the 'wrong' Yemen decision, the UAE has made good it's recent outburst ( "Pakistan will pay a heavy price.......") ; more such pro - India 'decisions' are in the pipeline following Modiji's recent visit :mrgreen:


2billion Dollar will shave off official Paki GDP by 1%. Assuming this as the initial shot in economic warfare ,next target must be their textile export and then full developed capability in managing the water flow toward West. Paki will face the dilemma of to grow or not grow crop. Let 3.5 arrange food, fuel and water for quarter Billion Poakroaches crammed in Lota like irritated walking Catfish with bad temper and foul smell.


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