Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

[KLNMurthy]

EAM has given the pakis some very decent compromises out of the impasse:
1. Cashmere can and will be discussed in foreign secretary level talks.
2. They can talk to Hurriat but after the NSA meeting, talking before breaks Shimla spirit.

[CRamS]

Like Sambit Patra did, its time for BJP to take off the gloves and dish it out to the likes of MSA and other ModiJi haters. If MSA can call Doval names, and disparage him as a cop, why can't BJP come out and say country's opposition cannot be led by an uneducated bar maid and her son who is a complete dunce; both of whose only qualifications are that they European?

On K.C. Singh, there have been times when I respected him. But of late he has joined in on the bash ModiJi bandwagon. What is absoulty painful is watching these ModiJi haters go after him rather than the real villains. As TSP amply demonstrated past few days, it has no intention of doing away with terror, and I don't understand KC's obsession with procedural mumbo jumbo as though that would have cornered TSP on the issue of terror.

For those who said nothing wrong with allowing TSP to meet the rats, think about it now, how much they have been cut to size. Thy must be twiddling their you know what sitting in some 5 star hotel in Delhi paid for by the ISI.

[KLNMurthy]

While it is understandable that Modi govt Paki policy is confusing, there is a method to this madness. To start with PM Modi has forced the Pakis to spell out their stand. Pakis want to continue terrorism, divisive policy and then continue to talk. What Modi did is show that India is sincere to talk, but Pakis are not sincere. And when there is no sincerity, India will spell out conditions in adhoc fashion and cancel the talks if necessary. Indian moves are unpredictable and that will be a change to Pakis and their 3+1 friends.

The other aspect of this is the Indian people are slowly understanding how much media and intellectuals are working against India's national interest. I see majority of comments again WKK type editorials across the media.

Please watch the Sushma Swaraj briefing. Modi govt policy is a model of principled clarity, and totally consistent with policies and agreements of all previous governments, whether NDA, UPA or Congress.

There is in fact no confusion other than statements of ignorant, stupid or hostile people claiming that there is confusion.

[eklavya]

MSA and KC Singh are both useless stupid a**holes.

Whatever evidence of Pakistan state sponsored terrorism we wanted to present to Sartaj Aziz should now be presented to the national and international media, with follow-up Q&As. It should be well understood why Pakistan was so keen to cancel these talks.

As for the Hurriyat, frankly its time we just ignored these people, other than ensuring that any sponsorship of terrorism and other unlawful activities is recorded and evidence gathered for prosection. Frankly, the more often, and more publicly, these people meet the Pakistanis, the better it is to show them for what they are i.e.lackeys of Pakistan with no legitimacy within J&K whatsoever. The more it looks like they take their orders from GHQ in Islamabad, the further their legitimacy will be eroded.

Also, now its time for heavy payback for Gurdaspur, Udhampur and the firings on the intenational border / LoC.

[KLNMurthy]

Like Sambit Patra did, its time for BJP to take off the gloves and dish it out to the likes of MSA and other ModiJi haters. If MSA can call Doval names, and disparage him as a cop, why can't BJP come out and say country's opposition cannot be led by an uneducated bar maid and her son who is a complete dunce; both of whose only qualifications are that they European?

On K.C. Singh, there have been times when I respected him. But of late he has joined in on the bash ModiJi bandwagon. What is absoulty painful is watching these ModiJi haters go after him rather than the real villains. As TSP amply demonstrated past few days, it has no intention of doing away with terror, and I don't understand KC's obsession with procedural mumbo jumbo as though that would have cornered TSP on the issue of terror.

For those who said nothing wrong with allowing TSP to meet the rats, think about it now, how much they have been cut to size. Thy must be twiddling their you know what sitting in some 5 star hotel in Delhi paid for by the ISI.

We won't abuse Sonia as a barmaid because (a) we are civilized and polite and (b) we shouldn't be reinforcing the status obsession that is already holding us back, inhibiting us as a people from judging ideas and actions on their merits instead of the social status of the person involved.

What if Sonia was an Indian male vendor of tea instead of an Italian female vendor of daaroo? And has the same bad ideas and bad conduct? Should we still fight against her by using her erstwhile profession as a weapon?

Or perhaps we could focus on the merits of the ideas and conduct?

[Vipul]

Now that the shitistanis have been able to wiggle out of the talks, i hope the BSF/Army is not restrained in replying to the Puki ceasefire violations. Hallaling a good chunk of the border infra/pakjabis should now be a priority to avenge the six civilians killed on the indian side.

[KLNMurthy]

Now that the shitistanis have been able to wiggle out of the talks, i hope the BSF/Army is not restrained in replying to the Puki ceasefire violations. Hallaling a good chunk of the border infra/pakjabis should now be a priority to avenge the six civilians killed on the indian side.

Once again, let us go easy on revenge fantasies. We are fortunate to have the best candidate for the PM job--an actual adult--in office. We have to trust him to pick and manage his team to do the job he was hired to do.

Looking at Sushma Swaraj 's performance, he is doing very well indeed.

[Amber G.]

Video of our EAM’s press conference. Unfortunately in Hindi and without English sub titles:

Media Briefing By External Affairs Minister (August 22, 2015)

Thanks VERY much for putting this! India (and the whole civilized world) is really lucky to have such a clear, articulate and simply brilliant person. Jai Ho..
Echoing..

Please watch the Sushma Swaraj briefing. Modi govt policy is a model of principled clarity, and totally consistent with policies and agreements of all previous governments, whether NDA, UPA or Congress.

There is in fact no confusion other than statements of ignorant, stupid or hostile people claiming that there is confusion.

With all this rona dhona of Paki Sartaz aziz .. let me offer.. Pesh hai (with due appologies to Mir Taqi Mir)
.

इब्ताए-ऐ-बात है, रोता है क्या, आगे आगे देखिये होता है क्या ?

(ibtida-e-baat hai, rota hai kya, aage aage dekhiye hota hai kya
(Literal translation (word by word) start of talk it is, why do you cry
ahead ahead see what will happen)
or ‘Tis only just begun, these talks, So don’t be dismayed yet
There’re more trials to come, More challenges to be met

[eklavya]

If MSA can call Doval names, and disparage him as a cop, why can't BJP come out and say country's opposition cannot be led by an uneducated bar maid and her son who is a complete dunce; both of whose only qualifications are that they European?

It is clear that the Congress party is the family property of the Nehru-Gandhi family, and Rahul Gandhi is indeed breathtakingly and completely stupid; which, it has to be said, is rather to the benefit of the BJP.

The NSA is selected by the PM; and this PM has the undisputed mandate of the Indian people. MSA and KCS are nobodies who have never done a day's honest work in their lives. They can both go to hell.

[disha]

not watching that channel could be an option?

Yes, but "international community" closely monitors that channel, and in fact they are the audience for the anchors. So no harm keeping a tab on their propaganda.

Are you keeping a tab on their propaganda or taken in by their propaganda. I am 400% sure it is the later.

Now "international community" does *not* closely monitor that channel., "international community" *OWNS* that channel. rNDTV is the c-level dog of US in this game.

GOI knows this, BJP knows this and people who need to know it also knows this. It is your choice to accept it and move forward.

There is no point in watching rNDTV since it is the US government viewpoint and sounding board. They purposely put negative or wrong points to solicit answers before so that when they officially approach the GoI - they know what is the stance of GOI. And that is why rNDTV is treated with kid gloves and that is why AJ opens up a channel to rNDTV to bring his view point to US.

So when rNDTV "spreads propaganda"., best is not to listen to it. It is junk. Only time to watch rNDTV is when GOI opens a channel to rNDTV officially, then you know what GOI is trying to tell US (and the west).

My 2 paises of opinion.

[disha]

Midnight deadline means nothing. Tomorrow Aziz will land up in Delhi and say they are open for talks. And will go on and invite the hurryrats as well. What then? We have to learn to do diplomacy better. Give them a long rope to hang themselves. Be more chankian pliz.

This was also pointed out by Sushmaji' and she clearly said that Pakistan has to attest to the agenda of the NSA meet. If they do not attest to the agenda (of talking ONLY TERROR and NO THIRD PARTY) there is no point of talk. Imagine baki NSA not able to talk and end up meeting hurriyats!.

[disha]

Guys, I finished watching the press conference by SushmaJi. I would give it an absolute A+. By far the most brilliant performance by ModiJi govt. And this struck TSP (and its 3.5) right on the solar plexus. And may I add, it was completely factual, polished, erudite, and dare I say much more realistic than Doval's Sastra univ talk where us jingoes get a kick out of, but he didn' offer anything concrete about TSP losing Baluchistan if it does another 26//11. I am sure the slime ballsin US state dept and other halls of power in US/UK/China have noted her speech, and plotting how to resurrect their renter boy after this.

+1000

[disha]

Just think--congis wanted this superbly capable minister fired over nothing at all.

Or the anti-Indian CONgoons wanted this superbly capable minister fired - just for being superbly capable. Something to chew on!

[sanjaykumar]

Sushmaji came across as much too earnest. Pakistan needs to be handled with a public display of the contempt that I know Indians have for it.

[CRamS]

Oh man, second bit of good news, I like BJP's blunt taking with a dose of realism and playing to India's strength

http://www.rediff.com/cricket/report/bc ... 150822.htm

DoCJi, looks like I am certain to lose the bet you proposed, and I take it as divine grace .

[KLNMurthy]

Sushmaji came across as much too earnest. Pakistan needs to be handled with a public display of the contempt that I know Indians have for it.

We have other officials for that--mr. Parrikar, mr. Rathore..

[Satya_anveshi]

Absolutely fantastic press conf by Sushma Swaraj ji. They have two hours to respond

Baja ke rakh diya ...there must have been a good eent ka jawab pathar se (hint hint) for Gurdaspur and Udhampur that now MEA is saying...baat nahin karenge jao ukhaad lo jo ukhaadna hai (No there won't be talks..do what you want to do).

[KLNMurthy]

Midnight deadline means nothing. Tomorrow Aziz will land up in Delhi and say they are open for talks. And will go on and invite the hurryrats as well. What then? We have to learn to do diplomacy better. Give them a long rope to hang themselves. Be more chankian pliz.

This is almost the exact point that the first mannerless media dorkette raised in the videshanga mantri's conference. "What will you do if they say yes and then meet the Hurriat or bring up cashmere? Are you going to walk out or gag sartaj aziz?"

One answer is that no one who has even the slightest idea of how high level diplomatic meetings work, even between enemies, or even opposing lawyers meetings, will ask such a question.

The other answer is that the whole point of demanding prior assurance of staying within bounds is to ensure that meetings remain civilized and civil. If they give assurances and break them 1 day later in a face-to-face meeting, I doubt even pakistan can get away without looking like the uncouth savages they are.

[Anujan]

MSA says that the dialog should return back to the format in 1997. Which is kinda quite strange because for the next (almost) 20 years, we had Kargil, Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai attacks and numerous other terror attacks. The elections in JK was hard won after Op Parakram. I am not sure why MSA think that the previous approach was so much better than the current one.

He also falls under another logical fallacy. In general I do think it is not a smart idea to send a policeman and an intelligence officer to do a diplomat's job. Maybe we need career diplomats for places like Massa, Middle East, China and Europe. But Paki policies are run by intelligence officers and the armed forces from their side. Why would we want to send diplomats from our side?

Lastly, though I am happy that we were consistent in our messaging (No talking to Hurrirats, No reneging on previously agreed format), I do hope that we have other responses ready as necessary. Pakis now have no reason why they'd even remotely pretend that they want to keep the terror tap in check. They are getting brazen and probably dont care that attacks are being traced back to them. We have lost the negotiation leverage with them, hopefully our powder is dry and knives are sharp.

[KLNMurthy]

...
We have lost the negotiation leverage with them, hopefully our powder is dry and knives are sharp.

Did we ever have that leverage, outside of our own imagination?

[partha]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/942427/time ... to-israel/

Time to talk to Israel

What Narendra Modi did in the UAE should be reciprocated by Nawaz Sharif in Tel Aviv.

[Anujan]

Well maybe they can start by explaining to Israel why the people who attacked the Chabad house are still running around and giving speeches?

[Guddu]

Video of our EAM’s press conference. Unfortunately in Hindi and without English sub titles:

Media Briefing By External Affairs Minister (August 22, 2015)

I am impressed...with Sushma Swaraj

[वरुण]

There were a couple of small goof-ups on 26/11 (2006 instead of 2008, explosion instead of attacks--later corrected)

I thought she was referring to the Mumbai train blasts in 2006 in which more people died and relations soured considerably.

[jrjrao]

Packees are very clever and very smart. How they are able to see and imagine strange things is maayaa onlee:

India accepts Hurriyat as third party in ‘bilateral’ talks

[disha]

Pakis now have no reason why they'd even remotely pretend that they want to keep the terror tap in check. They are getting brazen and probably dont care that attacks are being traced back to them. We have lost the negotiation leverage with them, hopefully our powder is dry and knives are sharp.

After Ufa handshake:

1. 91 ceasefire violations
2. 3 major terrorist attacks
3. 1 Terrorist caught alive for shooting Hindus for fun

Please tell me what has changed now. Will they do another Mumbai? 26/11 or 2006 train bombing?

Why the dhoti-shivering?

[Tuvaluan]

Pakis are not about to stop the LoC firings or anything else -- the puppetmasters are yet to feel any real pain for their actions against India for decades. All this "improve the Indian economy" to fight pakistan is a load of horsesh1t -- both can be done. It is not either-or.

[Peregrine]

Blame Nawaz -CYRIL ALMEIDA

THERE is no point talking about Kashmir, but there is a point in talking to India. Nawaz knows that. The boys won’t accept that. And Modi doesn’t seem to get it.

What Nawaz doesn’t know is how to get the other two to listen to him. Not Modi, nor the boys. And it really is his fault this time.

There is no point talking about Kashmir because Kashmir isn’t going anywhere. Not for the Indians, nor for Pakistan.

You don’t need to know anything about Kashmir to know that India hasn’t quite got everything under control in its bit of Kashmir. Nor is about to.

And you don’t need to know anything about global politics or diplomacy to know that the Pak-India relationship isn’t in a shape to get big things done. Nor is about to.

So there’s no point in talking about Kashmir. Not now. But there is a way to do it. And it’s not the way Nawaz has gone about it.

There were basically two things Nawaz had to play off each other in Ufa: terrorism and Kashmir.

Modi had made it known that it was terrorism first if talks were going to happen or else it was going to be Indian foreign policy minus Pakistan.

If that sounds stupid and self-defeating, it is. But that’s for India to decide and Modi to realise.

Over here, the boys are not in favour of rapprochement and would never countenance letting Kashmir slip off the agenda.

So, to make talks happen, Nawaz had to split the difference. But he didn’t. Have a look at the five points of Ufa and you’ll see how Nawaz got himself in trouble:

“1. A meeting in New Delhi between the two NSAs to discuss all issues connected to terrorism.

Early meetings of DG BSF and DG Pakistan Rangers followed by that of DGMOs.

2. Decision for release of fishermen in each other’s custody, along with their boats, within a period of 15 days.

3. Mechanism for facilitating religious tourism.

4. Both sides agreed to discuss ways and means to expedite the Mumbai case trial, including additional information like providing voice samples.”

Number two is important but boring. Three and four are plain boring. One and five is where the trouble lies.

If No 1 had just read “A meeting in New Delhi between the two NSAs to discuss all issues”, Nawaz would have had some wiggle room. It’s the “connected to terrorism” that made it Indian.

Same thing with No 5: the “including additional information like providing voice samples” was too specific and too Indian-ish. Extra clauses can be dangerous things.

After that, the only way Ufa was not going to be vetoed by the boys was if there had been a sixth point about Kashmir — or Balochistan or Samjhota. Some kind of red meat.

Nawaz should have known this. Either Ufa had to be kept vague or it had to have specificity that was not just Indian but Pakistani too.

Or Nawaz should have waited until the next meeting, maybe at the UNGA or one of these big international conferences.

Remember, no one expected anything out of Ufa. The best-case scenario was that things would not blow up.

Remember also that the pressure was on Modi to talk. The Americans weren’t happy with him on Pakistan nor were the Europeans, and the year-long shenanigans along the LoC and Working Boundary had caused some alarm.

Nobody but nobody doubted where Nawaz stood on India. The only difference opinion-wise lay in whether he was viewed sympathetically or somewhat derisively for still, in a third stint, being unable to wrest any space from the boys.

So Nawaz had two options: either split the difference between Modi and the boys in Ufa or wait a few months more and let the outside pressure build on Modi.

He chose to be greedy. Or hasty. Or, sadly, just plain stupid.

You can see what he was going for — a commitment to get Modi in Islamabad next year for Saarc. You can see how a Modi visit would be a triumph for Nawaz. You can also see why Nawaz is such a bad foreign minister.

Be bold, but cover your flanks. Be daring, but look over your shoulder too. Try, but expect to fail. All of that would be a good foreign minister. None of that is Nawaz, the keeper of the foreign minister portfolio.

We’ve seen it twice now: he seems to have the vision, but he has no plan. Last time, last year, he was swatted away for being in too much of a hurry and getting Shahbaz involved.

That was entirely expected. And it was because he tried to circumvent the system.

This time he’s tried to circumvent the agenda and found himself punished by Modi and looking silly at home. What next time?

Unhappily, the vision too is beginning to look frayed. Boon as it would be for the rest of Pakistan, there’s always been the suspicion that Nawaz on India is really about Punjab.

Punjab has everything, but it doesn’t have a Karachi. Tear down the wall with India and the goodness would spread everywhere, but the real bonanza would be for Punjab.

You saw the same thing on CPEC, the instinct to funnel stuff to the base, to Punjab. Why should it be any different with India?

So, onwards we limp. Long muzzled by the boys, everyone knows that. Now on Nawaz we are learning again: the vision is limited, the agenda is small and the tactics non-existent.
Cheers

[Tuvaluan]

So Nawaz had two options: either split the difference between Modi and the boys in Ufa or wait a few months more and let the outside pressure build on Modi.

So hopefully this is just the view of a paki, because if "outside pressure" is a factor in Indian GoI decision making, all is lost already.

[KLNMurthy]

There were a couple of small goof-ups on 26/11 (2006 instead of 2008, explosion instead of attacks--later corrected)

I thought she was referring to the Mumbai train blasts in 2006 in which more people died and relations soured considerably.

Oh yes there was that also.. Fcuking pakis

[sudhan]

As usual, pakis declare victory..

I'm sure they sense something is different in the way GoI boxed the pigs in. From now on the brown pants will not let the good sharif meet NaMo anymore.

[arun]

So Nawaz had two options: either split the difference between Modi and the boys in Ufa or wait a few months more and let the outside pressure build on Modi.

So hopefully this is just the view of a paki, because if "outside pressure" is a factor in Indian GoI decision making, all is lost already.

Fear not. Outside pressure just like background radiation will always exist. However I am very clear that India has been comfortable placed for some time now to withstand outside pressure and with that capability increasing as time passes. Indeed in my mind I am of the view that outside pressure has played no role in our countries engagement with the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan. That holds true even during the tenure of our more pusillanimous Prime Ministers. The significantly more important dangers regards our policy vis a vis the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan is our Prime Minister succumbing to the dreaded Noble Peace Prize Syndrome or pandering to communal Mohammadden vote bank politics for domestic electoral gains.

Those on this forum who presume that India is weak enough to be succumb to pressure by other countries and I certainly do not consider you a part of that group, need to get a firm grip on reality and forthwith cease this Dhimmi like talk.

[Mihaylo]

MSA says that the dialog should return back to the format in 1997. Which is kinda quite strange because for the next (almost) 20 years, we had Kargil, Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai attacks and numerous other terror attacks. The elections in JK was hard won after Op Parakram. I am not sure why MSA think that the previous approach was so much better than the current one.

He also falls under another logical fallacy. In general I do think it is not a smart idea to send a policeman and an intelligence officer to do a diplomat's job. Maybe we need career diplomats for places like Massa, Middle East, China and Europe. But Paki policies are run by intelligence officers and the armed forces from their side. Why would we want to send diplomats from our side?

Lastly, though I am happy that we were consistent in our messaging (No talking to Hurrirats, No reneging on previously agreed format), I do hope that we have other responses ready as necessary. Pakis now have no reason why they'd even remotely pretend that they want to keep the terror tap in check. They are getting brazen and probably dont care that attacks are being traced back to them. We have lost the negotiation leverage with them, hopefully our powder is dry and knives are sharp.

..what negotiation leverage did we have before ...lol?
Besides, hoping for negotiation with Pukes to yield any results is like a mentally unstable prisoner 'negotiating' with the prison bars to open.

-M

[Shreeman]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/942427/time ... to-israel/

Time to talk to Israel

What Narendra Modi did in the UAE should be reciprocated by Nawaz Sharif in Tel Aviv.

If bakistan wants to be in bed with the yahudis, I am sure the kiristaan and hanoods will supply the lumber AND lay the roses. Hell, they will perform the nikah and pay bakistan's dowry.

If only bakistan were to just recognize ijrael, open the embassies, accept the marriaje proposal.

[Shreeman]

Le talks are off -- bakistaan plames india. sun rises in the west and refuses to set.

[TKiran]

Pukis are losing credibility on the diplomatic turf also (they claim they have superior diplomatic skills of showing their middle finger in talks in spite of their perfidy on field). Now their four fathers can't rely on soup-e-rear diplomacy also. Pukis reliability / useful ness is diminishing day by day to their masters.

I feel sorry for them, they could have spun the talks as their victory in spite of whatever could have been taken place during the talks as they have been habituated to. It is strange that they browned their Shulwars on the very field many well meaning Indian strategic analysts concede supremacy to them.

[Muppalla]

Pakis boxed themselves by accepting NSA level talks. if there was any brain they should atleast should have insisted on Foreign secretary level talks. The charter of NSA is security and they can't have levearage of politics. Once their PM accepted, they have to do something to escape whether it looks good or bad. This is imminent.

[Abhay_S]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/942427/time ... to-israel/

Time to talk to Israel

What Narendra Modi did in the UAE should be reciprocated by Nawaz Sharif in Tel Aviv.

This guy deserves a Nishan-e-Pakistan.

[RajeshA]

Now that the formality of talks are out of the way, it is time to start harvesting Pakistani nuts. Too much backlog of terrorist attack cases is building up. GoI must now start making Pakistan pay. The payment must include Baluchistan.

Also let's try not to give Pakistan additional platform for drama, attention-seeking and equal-equal.

But what we see again and again is the complete absence of media support for GoI and Indian interests. That is till one of the starkest failures of NaMo Admistration.

If NaMo wishes to strengthen Nawaz Sharif's hands, it can only be done if the Paki Army themselves urge him to mediate between India and them, but for that Pakistani Army must face an unprecedented fury from Indian forces. Stop only after they deliver the terrorists. Since that is not going to happen, let's give peace a chance and do another 1971.

[RCase]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ePsJ9zxXmI
Sri Doval answering questions on Dawood and Yakub!