Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attack

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Gagan » 28 Jul 2015 09:39

On Pakistan's motives of doing this:
It is not what a westerner like C Fair says: To do nothing is failure. That is looking at things and rationalizing things from a western perspective and mindset.

I think in the end it is about earning sawab for these bozos.
Sawab and religious sacrifice. They already know that killing and then ultimately being killed is NOT going to solve anything.
But life is so hellish in Pakistan, and religion is the only outlet they have, that this becomes a viable explanation, a hope amongst a sea of hopelessness.

So these poor malnourished Jihadis who come in are trying to earn sawab, and money for their families.
The terror bosses are politicians, earning continued funds from the fauj by keeping the action going.
The fauj keeps funding the terrorists to ensure continued hostility, but I am sure they give due instructions to keep the groups small so that they can't do unacceptable damage such that India doesn't decide to go to war.
The pak fauj knows that it does not have any hope in hell to be able to withstand the Indian armed forces.

It is this aspect of the fauj which controls the terror tap, that must be targeted.
We would be wasting our time and money by trying to hit anywhere down the line than this.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Jul 2015 09:44

The eye-witnesses have said 5-6 terrorists. They also said there was a woman terrorist. Eye-witnesses are often unreliable. But is there more to these reports?
Gautam

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Singha » 28 Jul 2015 09:45

the people who laid the railway bombs are still on the loose.

==> so another incident or attack is imminent.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Gagan » 28 Jul 2015 09:46

So there needs to be a well planned action plan on who will do what in an incident like this.

Ideally the local police SWAT teams should do the needful. But seeing the Punjab police swat team without any BPJs was not a good sight to see.

Anti terror ops should have an israeli style tracked robo with a telescopic mast with a camera and a sniper rifle that should be moved close to the terrorists hideout, cover all windows etc, and these can then take the terrorists out day or night.

The SWAT team mentioned that they could not see the terrorists. These robos will be able to dekko inside the building from any approachable window/door/sunroof and restrict the movement of the terrorist/box them in.
Last edited by Gagan on 28 Jul 2015 09:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Gagan » 28 Jul 2015 09:48

Maybe one of the terrorist was bellowing like a woman so the impression that a woman was involved.

This group might not be the one that planted the bombs on the railway track.

This was an attack which went wrong for the Pakistanis. They were looking for a much larger casualty figure here

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby svinayak » 28 Jul 2015 09:51

rohitvats wrote:One important thing to understand is that this region is heavily militarized.

Question is, why are they doing this? This is something I am not able to put my finger on.

, Pakistanis under-estimated the kind of risk such operations would face and we've managed to neutralize the situation before it becomes bigger. But that is only one angle. It still does not explain the WHY part.


This is to show that they can do it.
Watch for any comments from Cfair or other Uncle tracks

The quietness from TSP and Uncle should give some clue

The terror groups dont want any agreement to be completed between Indian and TSP govt.
SCO meeting may have produced a working agreement and JK may have moved to track II process.

This event is to show this track II people that it can be damaged

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Gagan » 28 Jul 2015 09:58

Mount the T90/Arjun type remotely operated machine gun on a telescopic mast and deploy them around a terrorist hideout

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby RoyG » 28 Jul 2015 10:02

devesh wrote:One message on twitter said that it took 12 hours to capture/kill 3 Jihadis. If true, it requires a relook at the tactics. Unless there are special circumstances which made it that long. If yes, then those circumstances need to be addressed IMO.

This could be distraction on the western front, while something greater boils quietly in the East or South.


They had them surrounded. No point breaching if there are no hostages. They must have sprayed the walls with heavy machine gun fire and put 2-3 CG rounds into the the structure.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Singha » 28 Jul 2015 10:08

imo some small units of older T55/T72 tanks can be kept on a semi-trailer ready to be moved around .... a 125mm HESH round on a house will have far more power than 75mm CG round or Shipon rocket. a couple such rounds and people can go in a start shooting...

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Gagan » 28 Jul 2015 10:09

This was an ideal situation.
Three terrified would be terrorists
Holed up in an abandoned building, that too in the back of a police compound.
Surrounded on all sides by security forces.

Punjab policemen lobbing grenades at will through windows, the other policemen taking potshots and generally raining down heavy fire from multiple directions.

Turkey shoot/practice run for Indian security forces :lol:

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby pankajs » 28 Jul 2015 10:33

Suresh Prabhu ‏@sureshpprabhu 31m31 minutes ago

Our track man who foiled nefarious design of terrorists of bombing rail bridge is being honoured. He averted major disaster.Extraordinary act

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby habal » 28 Jul 2015 10:40

rohitvats wrote: It still does not explain the WHY part.


Pakistanis are unidimensional. In their world view, Taliban's attack on AFPS, Peshawar and recent train derailment and everything is RAW backed.

Enter brave, sincere, patriotic, uncorrupt, Gen Raheel Sharif of Punjab. Cousin of another Shaheed Aziz Bhatti, and brother of Shaheed Shabbir Sharif, pride of pakjab.

thus under the brave, honest, sincere upright Gen Raheel Sharif is leading a campaign to cleanse Karachi as well as NWFP, Waziristan etc of all subversive elements and Taliban and subversive mohajirs. All these people are working for RAW and India and work at their behest. Now these operations have reached final stages and most MQM 'sector commanders' in Karachi have been put behind bars and tortured, contract killers in custody killed, Waziristan operation in Tirah valley has cleaned out Mangal Bagh LeI, North Waziristan operation has chased out Fazlullah and his supporters. Peace talks with Afghan Taliban are happening under Pakistans supervision, next rounds are to be conducted in China. A holding operation is in progress in Waziristan and Karachi.

So a terrorist attack on India may make Indians retaliate and reveal their remaining nodes in Pakistan. Then the good Gen. Raheel Sharif can take them on too and thus cleanse the whole country. Insha Allah or whatever God/bitch it is that these guys worship.
Last edited by habal on 28 Jul 2015 10:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Singha » 28 Jul 2015 10:41

looking at web photos of punjab police swat, they do have BPJs .. not clear why they did not wear it initially...perhaps it was fetched later for final stages . but better to wear it I suppose with bullets flying around...

also some of the troopers look a bit old and hefty but probably have frightening strength and full of fight. the big sardar on the left
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/po ... spur16.jpg

the regular police and hefty and strong but perhaps not as mobile and agile.
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/482130 ... Skbg%3D%3D

but its hard to imagine any other state police beating the punjab police in strength, brawn and fightingness for sure.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby schinnas » 28 Jul 2015 10:43

The terror attack failed for multiple reasons. While a small team of suicide attackers were able to kill hundreds and hold the country to ransom in Mumbai, here local police without any special gear send them to hell while keeping the human causalities to a minimum. In addition, the presence of mind of the track man and bus driver helped avoid significant human casualties.

With the actual mission a failure, Pukis were probably hoping to revive discussion on Khalistan in India.. The passing away of a noble soul yesterday occupied all the news and denied Pukistan its PR outcome from this attack.

We only need to ensure that there are no other terrorists out on the loose. If there is any, they are captured and their capture kept a secret for a few days until all necessary intelligence is extracted.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby rohitvats » 28 Jul 2015 11:06

Singha wrote:<SNIP>but its hard to imagine any other state police beating the punjab police in strength, brawn and fightingness for sure.


Singha - the exploits of Punjab Police Commandos in Assam are quite a tale. These chaps used to put up tents/make their location in the most vulnerable areas in and around a city. And carry out patrols day in and day out. People and Ulfa alike were spooked with big burly Sardars roaming the country-side with nary a fear of anyone. All they needed was their rum and chicken... :mrgreen:

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby JayS » 28 Jul 2015 11:09

With the clear cut proof coming from the GPS sets thats the attack originated from TSP, now we very well be seeing debates in media: bakis dared to make cross-border attack just like what happened in north-east. GOI made a lot of chest thumping that such attacks will not be tolerated anymore be it from any country. So what GoI did on this one?? Does it make GoI eat its own words and prove that TSP is not really a Myanmar??

I don't understand one thing. Every time TSP does something and our govt calls off talks and become a target for piss-lovers that its GOI which interupts the piss-ful talks all the time. Why can't we rattle each and every TSP post in range from Rajsthan to J&K in retaliation, snipe few from the pig army, arrange for some attacks in Lahore or Pindi or Baluchistan. And claim we are innocent just like TSP does all the time and keep holding talks at all the levels. Just hold the talks for namesake. I mean how much it really matters?? Thoda chai-biskut, biryani-shiryani hoti rahe. Just do not agree on anything and keep frustrating them. Keep doing all retaliatory work but do not leave the moral high ground (in the eyes of the world) as well by keep holding talks. If they can do this why can't we do this?? This will shut the fuk up of the track-2 a-holes as well. Why can't we take the same strategy to be pious in front of the world but be punitive to our enemy at the same time openly.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jul 2015 11:25

nileshjr wrote:With the clear cut proof coming from the GPS sets thats the attack originated from TSP, now we very well be seeing debates in media: bakis dared to make cross-border attack just like what happened in north-east. GOI made a lot of chest thumping that such attacks will not be tolerated anymore be it from any country. So what GoI did on this one?? Does it make GoI eat its own words and prove that TSP is not really a Myanmar??

I don't understand one thing. Every time TSP does something and our govt calls off talks and become a target for piss-lovers that its GOI which interupts the piss-ful talks all the time. Why can't we rattle each and every TSP post in range from Rajsthan to J&K in retaliation, snipe few from the pig army, arrange for some attacks in Lahore or Pindi or Baluchistan. And claim we are innocent just like TSP does all the time and keep holding talks at all the levels. Just hold the talks for namesake. I mean how much it really matters?? Thoda chai-biskut, biryani-shiryani hoti rahe. Just do not agree on anything and keep frustrating them. Keep doing all retaliatory work but do not leave the moral high ground (in the eyes of the world) as well by keep holding talks. If they can do this why can't we do this?? This will shut the fuk up of the track-2 a-holes as well. Why can't we take the same strategy to be pious in front of the world but be punitive to our enemy at the same time openly.


Because there was 10 years rule inbetween called UPA



1) Didnt order any fighters or Artillery

2) Messed up the Navy by delaying critical stuff like Barak-1 missiles etc

and on the Border

3) Cancelled Vidvanshak for Army and Denel anti material rifles in the name of corruption, while it caused too many causualties to Pakistan in Operation Parakram

4) Tried to cancel domestic 155mm Ammo production and delayed it in Nalanda

5) Didnt order any artillery 155mm artillery piece and cancelled Denel Soltam upgrade

6) Left power with critical Ammo shortage.

7) lots of money spent in acquiring Baretta Sub machine guns, M-4 with really short range.

This is what is known in open sources, God knows what happenned to Nuke numbers etc.
This while Pakis acquired, Panters, F-16's in significant numbers, missiles, PGM, M109 etc.

So right now we don't have much military capability which will take a decade to fix. This is the pricce of giving power to likes of Mani Shankar Aiyars, Harsh Manders and John Dreaze.

Pakis and Cheenis also know this. If we have a proper Govt for 10 years, it will be too expensive for them to takes up on and we have a good capability gap which is missing now.

1962 was also no accident, Chinese knew well in advance how stupid we were.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby rkirankr » 28 Jul 2015 12:16

RoyG wrote:
devesh wrote:One message on twitter said that it took 12 hours to capture/kill 3 Jihadis. If true, it requires a relook at the tactics. Unless there are special circumstances which made it that long. If yes, then those circumstances need to be addressed IMO.

This could be distraction on the western front, while something greater boils quietly in the East or South.


They had them surrounded. No point breaching if there are no hostages. They must have sprayed the walls with heavy machine gun fire and put 2-3 CG rounds into the the structure.

They wanted to capture atleast one of them. Hence they tried to wear them out. It is reported in TOI

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby gakakkad » 28 Jul 2015 12:19

talking of op parakram , can someone refresh my memory as to why it was called off ?

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Singha » 28 Jul 2015 13:03

the 26/11 hit team came ashore at dusk, when the city was crowded, with lots of soft targets.

this crew arrived at the wrong time early in the morning, when streets were deserted and shops closed. once they shot at the passing bus, police would be knowing something was wrong. their scope of causing mayhem was much reduced.

it was a b-league plan vs the 26/11 plan. there could be other a- and b-league teams being set in motion in parallel all across the border and within india.

it aint over yet.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby JayS » 28 Jul 2015 13:20

Aditya_V wrote:
Because there was 10 years rule inbetween called UPA
.
.
.
So right now we don't have much military capability which will take a decade to fix. This is the pricce of giving power to likes of Mani Shankar Aiyars, Harsh Manders and John Dreaze.

Pakis and Cheenis also know this. If we have a proper Govt for 10 years, it will be too expensive for them to takes up on and we have a good capability gap which is missing now.

1962 was also no accident, Chinese knew well in advance how stupid we were.


Sadly true. I know UPA screwed up our national security big time. Lets hope we build the lost ground under Modi. Atleast I am hopeful. I hope Modi has restarted RAW operations in TSP to break it into pieces.

Well, given we have the capacity to rattle pig army big time, will we still be cunning like Chinese? Is it there in our SDRE DNA?? Thats the question. Its so frustrating to see a piddi failed state mocking us all the time.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby munna » 28 Jul 2015 14:32

Singha wrote:looking at web photos of punjab police swat, they do have BPJs .. not clear why they did not wear it initially...perhaps it was fetched later for final stages . but better to wear it I suppose with bullets flying around


This unit of Punjab SWAT was undergoing a small calibre weapons and unarmed combat training camp at Amritsar. Their cache of arms and gear was at other end of the state in Mohali. They entered the fight with nothing but melange of weapons from district armories of Amritsar and Gurdaspur. The boys fought in black t-shirts till their gear arrived by 1 PM.
Kudos to DG Saini!!!!

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Lisa » 28 Jul 2015 15:08

Gagan wrote:Mount the T90/Arjun type remotely operated machine gun on a telescopic mast and deploy them around a terrorist hideout


IMO, there is no need for such complicated solutions. Contain the pukis first and then tear gas or pepper gas the facility forcing them outside. You then process the initiative of how to kill or capture the quarry.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jul 2015 15:34

gakakkad wrote:talking of op parakram , can someone refresh my memory as to why it was called off ?


Due to Superpower intervention and Nation losing unity post Gujarat riots, where mysteriously a train was burned 24 hours after UP elections.

And quite frankly we dont have enough Miltary superiority or the political will to defeat and render Pakistan a defeat that it can no longer posses a threat to us.

We can at best stop any ofensive moves off theirs.

while they have the mentality of Ghazni and Ghori, we have enough people in India who want to look after thier well being at the cost of ours.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby habal » 28 Jul 2015 15:41

munna wrote:Kudos to DG Saini!!!!


& what did DG Saini achieve with this stunt ? When armymen in full combat gear and all range of weapons were at hand.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby vasu raya » 28 Jul 2015 15:45

They should try out bullets/darts that have wireless micro phones and pin hole cameras fit into them, when they lie in close range to the terrorists, one can listen to their language and conversations, removes guesswork

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Harpal Bector » 28 Jul 2015 15:51

Rony wrote:Forwarded to my Facebook account by a friend with the below caption. for whatever its worth

Gopal Singh Chawla of PSGPC(Pakistani SGPC) & Hafiz Saeed just 10 days before Gurdaspur attack

Image


Is this accurate? because EXIF data has profile time listed as 3 years ago

(Profile Date Time 2012:01:25 03:41:57 3 years, 6 months, 3 days, 1 hour, 30 minutes, 51 seconds ago)

That does not agree with the timeline.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby munna » 28 Jul 2015 15:53

habal wrote:
munna wrote:Kudos to DG Saini!!!!


& what did DG Saini achieve with this stunt ? When armymen in full combat gear and all range of weapons were at hand.


Err..you would not call it stunt if you knew about him prior to this incident. He is a legend, a maverick who is known for having busted Khalistanis left right and centre. Till today he is regularly harassed by hyooman rights walas. He knew his boys and he backed him to the hilt. The pak-pitthus know that any response in Punjab will not be dictated by army or nsg mobilization. He saved the morale of his force, just as KPS would have done and did during Black Thunder.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jul 2015 15:55

And if a Sikh is summoned in Puki land can he not but obey, minorities don't haave things like choice in TSP.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby vijaykarthik » 28 Jul 2015 15:59

I haven't checked the earlier posts in this thread to see if it was discussed before: I got a brainwave and wonder if this is Paki way of poking around to see if what the calibration of response would be [ahem, ahem, after Myanmar opn got a lot of press et al]

Will teach a lot of windbags nice lessons on when to keep mum and when to bleat / blow their own trumpets.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby shravanp » 28 Jul 2015 16:01

Some consolation that the SWAT team had good T-shirts and decent guns. Some improvements there unlike the ones dealing with terrorists in 26/11

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby shiv » 28 Jul 2015 16:03

This was not a failed terrorist attack. 3-4 men killed 7, which is a victory for Lashkar e Poopbah

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby shiv » 28 Jul 2015 16:06

Pakistan's "demographic dividend" is providing them with any number of hungry young men ready to die. US aid is now allowing them to expend much more money on commando training to suicide terrorists. Normally a commando force is not a suicide force. They will require salaries, family support and later pension. This is the huge advantage that Pakistan is making use of. We will see more and more of this as time passes. These men were well trained, like Mumbai 2008 and had the right equipment. Only providence kept the casualties down to a tragic 7.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Harpal Bector » 28 Jul 2015 16:27

PAP interviews suggestive of LeT Fidayeen. If that turns out to be correct, then this operation will have support from the highest levels of the ISI.

The big questions then are:

1) How did they penetrate so far inside i.e. why did AIOS and other check measures fail? (tunnel + local collaborators or sleeper cell activated, or did they go south from Jammu because it was easier than going north?)

2) Basic Aaba Patil question - "baki kahan hain?" i.e. where are the rest of the assaulters ? (unknown)

It is probably a good idea to find answers to this before the RM/MHA/PM steps on the floor of the parliament and takes a question on this issue.

It is plausible that this is a PA-ISI organized operation, if so then I suspect this is a probing attack with two immediate aims.

Its first aim of this operation is likely simply to remind Sri. Modi what his place in the world is. Modi supporters have indulged in a lot of big talk on security issues, it isn't clear if that is any way connected to the reality of the security situation in India. The reality is that there is a very heavy cost benefit analysis that New Delhi has to go through before it commits to any response. The analysis takes time and requires a very high degree of concentration and resolute intent in the PMO. If any PM of India can be characterized or labelled with a number, then this timescale is the number of choice.

A provocation of this nature is usually brings into sharp focus the real response time. Forget how long it takes to send conflict resolution teams to the site of the attack (immediate crisis response timescale), the real time scale (strategic response timescale) of interest is how long the Modi government takes to work out a "befitting reply". That is the timescale the Pakistanis are after - it determines everything about the current situation facing them. If Sri. Modi can reduce that timescale then the Pakistanis know that their own decision making process needs to be made faster. If Sri. Modi can't reduce that timescale for whatever reasons - then the Pakistanis can keep their current speed on critical decision making. Naturally the most critical decision making is nuclear decision making so in that way even this simple incident will have a huge impact on subcontinental security affairs.

The second aim is likely to remind the Indian Army that the ground is still wet under its feet . After the construction of the AIOS and the expansion of the border defenses, the IA had reason to believe that its log area was quite secure and infiltration free. Now the IA has to ask the question that if an LeT Fidayeen squad can make it in and do this much damage, what will a full SSG unit do?

IMO the Pakistanis are not stupid. They have heard from numerous sources including Lata Mangeshkar that a great Hindu Narasimha has taken the throne in Delhi. It is incumbent upon the Pakistanis to work out exactly what that means for them in terms of their own response modalities.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby ManSingh » 28 Jul 2015 16:56

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/baptism-by-fire-for-punjab-s-elite-swat/112272.html

Many details on this page:

1) The team which responded was undergoing training in amritsar and it took time to fetch their heavy weapons.

2) Final assault was by SWAT team with army providing cover fire.

3) One killed by gun shot and 2 by a grenade

4) Bullet proof vehicles came from J&K police
Last edited by ManSingh on 28 Jul 2015 16:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby gakakkad » 28 Jul 2015 16:57

Aditya_V wrote:
gakakkad wrote:talking of op parakram , can someone refresh my memory as to why it was called off ?


Due to Superpower intervention and Nation losing unity post Gujarat riots, where mysteriously a train was burned 24 hours after UP elections.

And quite frankly we dont have enough Miltary superiority or the political will to defeat and render Pakistan a defeat that it can no longer posses a threat to us.

We can at best stop any ofensive moves off theirs.

while they have the mentality of Ghazni and Ghori, we have enough people in India who want to look after thier well being at the cost of ours.



wasn't there some ammunition related incident? iirc , sometime in november 02 , a multibarrel rock launcher misfired on the army 30 km inside the Indian border during transportation...this was poorly covered by media but we discussed it here...

Philip
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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Philip » 28 Jul 2015 16:58

Said before.Mr.Modi's credibility has to be destroyed,both at home and abroad. JV between China and Pak to achieve the same.

Exactly as I predicted,the babus have come out with the usual "befitting reply" to Pak!

There was a post earlier about action that can be taken without going to war.Diplomatic,economic,etc. That's the way to go overtly,treat Pak like a "contagious disease",it needs India more than India needs it.Frankly,who cares a sh*t about Pak? It is only the sentimental fools of the pre-Partition era who want a rapproachment. Treat Pak like a "rogue state".Just as the US imposed sanctions,etc.on Iran for 29 years and ostracised Cuba for over 50,so too must Pak be treated like a pariah state,and let it suffer its "Border of Pigs" against India.

Overtly,militarily,there should be orders for immediate response from the IA whenever there is a terror strike,hitting targets of opportunity anywhere across the LOC/Intl. border. The acquisition of UCAVs and drone strikes deep into Paki territory taking out terror centres/individuals should begin. Pak must understand that waging terror against India requires payment, in blood.

Covertly,we must now start exercising our unequal and opp. reaction.The break-up of Pak.
"Operation Pigsty"
Covert ops must now be the norm all over Pak,from the Afghan borders ,to Baluchistan to Sindh the Punjab.POK must get a special cell to conduct covert ops. The IA should dust off plans to seize POK territory in the next spat with Pak,and the GOI must replenish war stocks of ammo and eqpt. ,keep our powder dry so that we can swing into action at a moment's notice.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby member_29058 » 28 Jul 2015 17:16

First we have to shoot down a plane full of TSP army men and/or sink a couple of ships.

RajeshA
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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby RajeshA » 28 Jul 2015 17:32

The befitting way to respond to this attack is:

a) Take some land across the border in Pakistan. It doesn't really matter where, as long as it is taken. However if it has strategic importance, all the better. More importantly it is to make a point - an attack on India would result in permanent losses including to the standing of Pakistani Army in Pakistan.

b) Use Pakistan-trained terrorists to cull down Pakistani Army officers in a major way. It is only a matter of some money and channeling it through some very discreet channels. It should be of the same level of that school massacre, though it need not be children.

It has to be double-thappar every time, and those Pakis should know how they would be punished every time.

Yes, there are Congis who want to discredit Modi showing him as weak and therefore there are Congi attack-dogs asking Modi to go on the offensive. They think it is not possible for Modi to do so. Or they think, that an attack on Pakistan, would galvanize the Muslims behind the seculars.

That is why Modi should distance himself from saber-rattling and chest-thumping. The response to Pakis should be cold, very cold. All he needs to do is to take down Paki Army's knickers, and humiliate them, all as a matter of fact. Take away a chunk of Paki territory and announce that India has taken it as compensation for lost Indian lives. But let the war be waged against Pakis through terrorist proxies. Let them feel the pain of real loss also.

Retaliation against Pakistan using only a terrorist attack would bring down India to Pakistan's level. India needs to make Pakistan pay publicly, but as a "civilized" country we need to extract the compensation in an above board manner. We take land. With that our official retaliation is done.

Later on, if a similar terrorist attack is sanctioned by India on Pakistan, it would not look as if India is conducting it, for we can say, that our compensation was extracted through takeover of land, and we do not need to indulge in terrorism.

Hitting Pakistan's terrorist infrastructure is not really feasible for India. It is too big, too spread out, too moving a target, and would require enormous amounts of resources from India. But hitting Pakistani Army using a terrorist attack is easy. After all they control the terrorists anyway.

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Re: Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attac

Postby Harpal Bector » 28 Jul 2015 17:57

It doesn't matter what you or I think.

Whatever the decision Modiji reaches is - whether it is to overtly/covertly attack Pakistan or to not attack Pakistan - it is something the Modivadis and Congressiyas will have to live with.

The only thing that matters is how long Sri. Modi takes to reach his decision.

Let us keep an eye out for newspaper articles on the decision making process.

The SOP thus far is to convene meetings - first of a strategic committee, then of the CCS, and then if need be the council of former PMs and then finally to inform Parliament and the nation (preferably at the same time). This process typically takes two weeks to complete.

It is not clear if Sri. Modi will conform to the SOP.

There are natural timescales, for example the immediate crisis resolution timescale is embedded in there to some extent as it serves to inform any strategic debate. This time the immediate crisis resolution has been effected in a matter of hours after first contact. So lets say it takes three days or so to pull together all the relevant facts - autopsy reports, electronic analysis, identification of attackers, etc...

Whatever the response, the Govt. of India has to determine what is the nature of the provocation, who is the mastermind and what exact corrective action needs to be taken to achieve maximum positive strategic effect. The fastest I have seen this done was when Sri. Rakesh Maria's team on the night of 26/11 interrogated Ajmal Qasab on his hospital bed where he offered detailed evidence of involvement of specific Pakistani actors. The immediate crisis resolution timescale during that incident was three to four days. It was good sense on the part of Sri. Maria to acknowledge that the Bombay Police was ill-equipped to deal with the assault and let the NSG lead. This allowed the Bombay Police to focus on criminal investigation and building up a detailed information packet for strategic decision makers.

Today, with Sri. Sumedh Singh Saini focusing on the PAPC carrying out the immediate response work, investigation has taken a back seat. It will most likely be the NIA that generates the necessary inputs for the strategic discussions.
Last edited by Harpal Bector on 28 Jul 2015 18:07, edited 1 time in total.


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