Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attack

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 03:50

Q: Is the Gurdaspur attack an attempt to widen the front of the border terrorist war?

A: Possibly. One must ask what would Pakistan gain. In J&K, as long as the pot is boiling, the Kashmiris blame India for the lack of normalcy and the interruption of daily life. Making sure that the alienation between significant sections of the local population and India is not allowed to heal is a key Pakistani objective.

In Punjab, the locals will blame Pakistan for any disruption.

Will opening a new front put additional strain on India's armed forces? Not if KPS Gill is listened to, and the Punjab police is strengthened. If J&K is hostile territory for jihadi operations, then Punjab is really, really, really hostile territory.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 03:52

ramana wrote:HB, You know those MB are on other side of LOC only.

Sorry I don't know where they are now. The last time I saw them on my screen they were being used to shore up 18 Div in Hyderabad Sukkur area. Perhaps 18 Div was feeling depleted after things were pulled out to create V Corps reserve (now called AR South) in Malir. This was in 2002. I think they were rattled by talk of a walk through south from Munabao.

It could be the Bns were demobbed but more likely they were simply absorbed into existing formations to create room for the anti-IAB task forces.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 04:07

Q: Is the Gurdaspur terrorist attack a probe to gauge the Modi government?

A: It is a possibility. However consider that the Modi Government is determined to treat J&K as any other state in India; the BJP vigorously contested the elections there, is part of the ruling coalition, etc. etc. A terrorist attack in J&K is as much a probe of the Modi government as is a terrorist attack in Gurdaspur, Punjab. A terrorist attack in J&K also has the advantage of furthering Pakistan's strategic objective of keeping the Kashmir pot on the boil. As argued previously, a terrorist attack in Punjab does very little. Why not probe in J&K? Is it because Indian security forces have made it well near impossible to do so?

The only other attack that might advance Pakistani objectives is one in a major metropolitan city. The gains they might hope for would be the international attention, the scores of travel advisories that would ensue in nations around the world and undermine international businesspeople's confidence, attention to India's difficulty in securing itself, and so on.

Further, if it was a probe, then the failure of the railway track bombs and the failure of the attempted massacre of bus passengers changed the outcome of the attack from ~100 casualties to ~10 casualties. That and President APJ Kalam's passing away greatly changed the public pressure to respond and the time in which to respond. On the original timetable, questions in Parliament would be raised the very next day after the attack, i.e., Tuesday. Instead, Modi sarkar could avoid a public statement till Thursday.

That is, if a hundred people had died in the attack, and the GOI had to make a definitive statement on Tuesday, that would be a far different situation from what we actually have, around 10 people killed and GOI having till Thursday to say anything. Therefore, if it was a probe, it failed in its purpose.

PS: that is, one of the effects and therefore possibly the purposes of a terrorist attack is to force the adversary into a stampede, so to speak; to be forced to handle events and forces in a hurry, if not in a panic.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 04:27

Q: Was the Gurdaspur attack aimed at influencing some internal constituency of the Pakistani army/jihadi complex rather than a probe of Modi sarkar, or opening a new front or some such?

A: It is a possibility to be considered, however remote. The Pakistani Army is busy eliminating every jihadi that does not kowtow to it. Perhaps the massacre of army children has created a constituency among the Pak. army that now believes that the "bad" jihadis have to be quashed, instead of considering them to be exemplars of Islam. Perhaps the Army does not get to feed at the trough of Chinese $46 billion until the internal security situation is improved and so internal jihadis have to be controlled. In that case, maybe this is a signal that if green-on-green violence goes down, the Pakistani Army will support even ill-conceived missions against the neighboring kafirs, a reassurance that the Pakistani Army has no intention of giving up the jihad against India. Pakistan will sacrifice as many Indians as it takes, (and cheap fidayeen fodder), to bring about a simulacrum of internal peace and security.

----
I have laid out my perspective. Holes in the arguments, perspectives I have overlooked, I would be happy to see. All the above are hypotheses, to be readily abandoned if something better is presented.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 04:43

Tuvaluan wrote: Since you are the one making grand proclamations here, why don't you provide 5 ways in which Pakistan has changed, that would require a different perception of pakistan. We all know they have a freer hand in Afghanisthan than they did in the last decade, thanks to the US scum, so we will leave that aside.

1) The Machiavellian system of ruthless duplicity enshrined by Gen. Musharraf in October 2001 has become a core strategic principle of Pakistan's national security state in a manner it never was before. Generations of Pakistani officers and the entire intelligence machinery there have become trained in the fine art of embracing you just to stick a knife in your back.

2) Pakistan as a whole has seen the highest violence levels inside Pakistan since the Partition - an entire generation has grown up hardened and desensitized to violence in ways that are difficult to comprehend.

3) The Pakistani nuclear arsenal and their confidence in key technologies associated with its reliability has grown. The assets needed to secure it are in place. Having survived such close proximity with US presence inside Pakistan, and the constant threat of nuke nudity or a Jihadi takeover happening any second, the Pakistanis have come up with ways of reducing the possibility of interference in the nuclear chain of command.

4) During the post Musharraf era, the PA has divested itself of civil order tasks and focused on maneuver warfare. A number of roles have been handed over to the vastly expanded paramilitary units, the SSG has been expanded significantly. Acquisition and induction of armor and money outlay for training of combined arms exercises has been increased greatly. They are training more in the military arts than they ever did before. Defensive infrastructure has been built up considerably and so have necessary POL reserves. I do not think they find Cold Start as disconcerting as they once did. I feel that the Houbara Run will not happen and the IAB advances will be effectively screened. The battlefield awareness and fog of war situation has improved greatly.

5) A deep recognition of the limited scope of resources has grown in the Pakistani elite. Knowing that they are 10x economically smaller than India and that their economy isn't growing like India's, and that they are running out of water - the Pakistanis are increasingly strategic in their approach to their security problems.

Dear Tuvaluan and others,

We can discuss this stuff I have presented in the post but this is a distraction from my main focus here.

I feel a stage has been reached with fidayeen attacks at various points in India are for all practical purposes become a "scheduleable" risk. The exact nature of this threat might change, there is no guarantee that the ISI will use only people from the Potohar region in this role. Given the vast spread of Jihadi terrorism - the manpower might come from some entirely unexpected place. One possible mitigation measure is an SG(F) which is capable of effecting a kind of conflict resolution that has not been seen in the world.

If these fidayeen can be taken alive, they will be vital information source on the intentions and identities of their benefactors. The loss of deniability will reduce the risk of further such attacks.

N.B. Unless you want to make HB is a Pakee Troll the new Vidya Vinamrata, Veerta ... it might be a good idea to dispense with that phrase at the start of your posts.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 04:45

MurthyB wrote: Deja Vu all over! Could it be 2005 again, with a certain P Iyengar in the house and a "maverick" pleading for Pee-track diplomacy?! 'Cept this time P Iyengar was shaheedized in Gurdaspur!

Yes Sir, but as Sid says - those are my grandmother's stories - which no one wants to hear. And you think about it - why should anyone care about the past?

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 31 Jul 2015 05:00

his article states that the bullets used were API, it should rest the canard that the mission was small scale and only designed to give a grand illusion of a bigger attack, fact is they failed

Terrorists who attacked Punjab had lethal armour-piercing bullets

Capturing terrorists alive is ok when possible, but is a bad SOP to establish, you will just have more foot soldiers volunteering. These Jihadis go through indoctrination for a short while, its takes time to get them back to senses, some may return and some may remain hardcore. Kasab softened after a while but you don't want the govt in power do the same, which is a far higher risk. It could be due to vote bank politics, Kandahar hijack etc., anything that could make an impact, unless we declare them dead in the ops. Osama was supposedly disposed off at sea, one never knows for sure.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 Jul 2015 05:21

Pakistan is a victim of its own machinations.
They have been hollering about RAA terrorism, Moodi, Doooval recently.
They've blamed everything from Peshawar APS attack to the milk going sour at their homes on RAA Saazish.

Now once that is done, martial mards have to be seen as having done something about it no?
Since the attacks in J&K weren't really being successful, they thought they'll try to catch India's security apparatus unawares. Also a possible response to Lt Gen K H Singh's "unexpected damage" threat.

Mard-e-momins want to show they are alive and kicking.

And that's it !!! That is all the analysis that is needed of Pakistan's motivations. They are not capable of a more nuanced posturing because of lack of IQ and haramigiri in their thought process. Why waste time to analyze their actions?
They are doing the most idiotic and self damaging thing of all - encouraging terrorism, jihadism IN THEIR OWN SOCIETY and then exporting it.

Which also means that such individuals and societies will be bowing and crying in front of a greater power that steps in to bitch slap them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 05:36

An attack in Punjab could indicate that it has become tough enough to infiltrate via Kashmir to make Pakistan experiment with the International Border. In general it is not easy to infiltrate men, but not impossible.

Ironically there is a limit to the number of attacks of one particular type that can be undertaken to maintain deniability. Deniability is still important for Pakistan because that is what keeps Indians arguing Bectoriously about whodunit.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 31 Jul 2015 05:40

Now that the funeral of Kalam is over, Rajnath has spoken; it is time for some action Modi sahib?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Jul 2015 05:40

Only some are given to hectoring, Burpall Hector perhaps.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 05:55

It seems the material evidence was in the form of files that were not properly deleted. There was a data entry at Sargodha. That is where the device was first turned on. Whoever cleared the entries in the device afterwards, didn't know about or forgot to clear the original power-up data for Sargodha.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 05:59

One way to get an idea of what is going on is to work backwards from the publicly available information we have rather than Bectorious bullshitting about unknowns and unknowables.

A recent news report stated that intel agencies said that about 300 militants are waiting to cross over to India from teh Pakistani side. Why have they all not come? Presumably because they cannot simply walk in. That apart the intel apparatus is able to detect large numbers like 50 or 300.

We often read about border encounters where 3 to 8 men try to infiltrate under cover of darkness and Paki fire. This suggests that Pakis feel that this is an optimum number that have a reasonable chance of getting through. The number of terrorist acts we see in India nowadays is smaller than the number of border encounters suggesting that infiltration in groups of 3-8 men are generally detectable but the men are not always shot. Some are reported to have escaped.

What this information suggests is that a group of 2-3 men could possibly manage to get past existing defences if Pakis keep on trying. Once they get in they fall into a different kind of net. If they start shooting and lobbing grenades right away you get a Mumbai or Gurdaspur like situation. here the endurance of the men is important. Jihadis on soosai missions with command style training can hold out for 2-3 days and could kill dozens of people in the meantime. That would be notched up as a success - as a story to charge up the morale of infiltrating terrorists and allow some ISI and LeT people to chuckle at India's discomfort. It ain't gonna get them Kashmir.

The other possibility is that infiltrated men get local help and get into safe houses in India where they settle down and wait for an opportunity - like an attack in Delhi or an attack on Modi somewhere.

As a change of subject, let me ask a question

1. If Modi goes to Pakistan who will guarantee that he stays alive?
2. If Modi is killed in Pakistan, are we going to nuke Bakistan? With Indians making Bectidiotic arguments and possibly MSA and Dogvijay dancing with joy at Modi's death - who is actually interested in following up with some action oif Modi gets wajib up qatl in Pakistan?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 06:08

Harpal Bector wrote:It seems the material evidence was in the form of files that were not properly deleted. There was a data entry at Sargodha. That is where the device was first turned on. Whoever cleared the entries in the device afterwards, didn't know about or forgot to clear the original power-up data for Sargodha.

Why are you telling us this? You will not answer because I am on your ignore list

If this is inside information, the media would be more likely to use it and publicize it. For you to post it on here - knowing that you have been under fire for bullshitting only means that you have a deep seated need to appear like you have inside information and want to be accepted as a voice that will be heard and change opinions.

Or you may be a troll who is enjoying himself thoroughly chaddi utarofying BRFites looking for information. A few months ago I had several acrimonious exchanges with you in which I pointed out that you were trolling. Now you have been welcomed back and you are going apeshit. At some stage I expect the whole crowd of 20-odd admins on BR to wake up, look at this thread see what most people feel about you and decide what role they wish to play on this forum.

This Bector guy has pooped all over this thread and make a mockery of a deadly terrorist attack by claiming he has inside knowledge of the corridors of power, the army, what happened in Sargodha, and how su 30s overflew Lahore. If I was a lone voice calling out this troll it would have been different, But exactly what is going on here?

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 31 Jul 2015 06:14

^^^^ Don't feed the troll, let the Ape enjoy his shit. Let's move on.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 06:20

Arre Shivji, you are not on my ignore list - it was published in ToI. Why would I release secret information? This the overwhelming evidence that Sri. Jaitley was referring to on the floor of the house.

The GoI found material evidence that linked directly to Pakistan. That was when the matter was disclosed before parliament. That is exactly how I thought things worked. That is why I was sharing it with people here.

The conjectures presented were actually backed up by real data from the GPS.

I didn't realize you want me to stop posting. I will do it if pleases you.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 06:24

shiv asked:

As a change of subject, let me ask a question

1. If Modi goes to Pakistan who will guarantee that he stays alive?
2. If Modi is killed in Pakistan, are we going to nuke Bakistan? With Indians making Bectidiotic arguments and possibly MSA and Dogvijay dancing with joy at Modi's death - who is actually interested in following up with some action oif Modi gets wajib up qatl in Pakistan?

There is no guarantee, and so I hope that he does not go. Since more powerful nations like the US and China have had their leaders not go to Pakistan - delay or cancel their visit - because of security conditions, there would be nothing out of the ordinary for PM Modi to change his mind in 2016. And remember, he accepted a visit for SAARC, not for a real state visit to Pakistan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2015 06:28

Folks help out by posting the after action news reports.

TOI has this

Why it took 11 hours to kill the three terrorists?

Short answer conscious decision to capture atleast one alive.

Yet they didn't use tear gas or smoke shells to force the fellows out.
The article has very nice graphics of the timeline and pictures of the rail track bombs.

Those are demolition charges and not IEDs.
Post them and enlarge the area to see.
----

Econtimes
Six Brave hearts

Gives very good account of the six people who mattered.

Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gurdaspur_attack

----
You know instead of arguing among ourselves about what ISI thinks or not we should have collected data as we used to do in 2008 and before and written the wiki ourselves.

---Also Chinese made 7.62mm API bullet casings were recovered.

One of the policemen got hit with one such API bullet.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 06:28

krishna_krishna wrote:^^^^ Don't feed the troll, let the Ape enjoy his shit. Let's move on.

the man has been on my ignore list for many months now. But I see his posts when quoted by others and note that his trolling is sophisticated enough to draw out BRFites and his "bait-and-switch" clever enough to frustrate those who argue with him directly.

he started off as a person who sounded like a Babu with inside information, As that got called out he shifted to claiming he had some sources in the army. He botched that really badly with his 56 APO but the man is without shame - and knows that there will always be someone whom he can draw out. He then shifted to "Let me be serious from now on" and started coming up with solutions patronizingly saying Pakistan has changed and people don't. These are classic bait and switch tactics of one of the more sophisticated trolls we have had. I would say that at least a few admin chaddis have been pulled down by this guy - given the freedom he has been given to keep on trolling as he takes down one forum member after another and makes them understand that he should be on their ignore list.

I am not asking that this chap be banned although I would probably have done that in my admin days. But this thread has been killed. The thread is dead. And Harpal Bector is the single one point reason for that. He has won this round. If this nonsense continues I will un-ignore him and count the number of forum members he has pissed off and cross post their posts to further bugger up this thread. After all if harpal bector is allowed to do that why not anyone else?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 06:29

Ouch

Punjab officials however said the breach had existed at Bamiyal for a year and was further damaged by last week's heavy rains, helping the jihadis to enter into India with their night vision devices.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... s?from=mdr

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jul 2015 06:32

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... s?from=mdr

Sources said the two GPS sets were fed with two different routes on July 21 at Sargodha near Faisalabad. One of the GPS sets shows a route originating from Mastgarh in Pakistan's Gujrat near Jammu border and then crossing the Jammu-Punjab-Pakistan tri-junction to enter Pathankot after crossing a rivulet merging into Ravi river. It then moves southwards to Dinanagar.

Another route shows Malowal in Pakistan's Gujrat as the starting point and then shows Dorangla, 170 km south of Malowal, in India's Punjab. The next marked place is the same as the first GPS set. Going by this route, agencies believe that entry could have been made through Narowal in Pakistan. Here too the terrorists are suspected to have crossed a tributary of Ravi to enter India.

Curiously, the two entry points mentioned in the two sets are 40 km apart. It is important to ascertain the gap exploited by the terrorists so that a pattern of infiltration is established and the gaps plugged accordingly.

This is the first time that functional GPS sets have been recovered from slain terrorists in recent history and thus confirm breach on the Punjab border. In 2013, a similar GPS set was recovered from terrorists who allegedly crossed the Jammu border and launched an attack in Samba. This set, however, was damaged by a bullet and data could not be retrieved. BSF, which manned the Jammu border, had then denied that infiltration had taken place through the Jammu border.

BSF DG DK Pathak on Wednesday camped in Punjab surveying the Indo-Pak border to assess its vulnerability to infiltration as also to find out where the terrorists may have sneaked in from. BSF sources, however, said even after a thorough inspection of the border based on GPS coordinates, there were no tell-tale signs of infiltration anywhere along Ravi.

Agencies are now scanning call intercepts and satellite imagery to reach a conclusion on the route the three terrorists may have actually taken to reach Dinanagar.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 06:33

Harpal Bector wrote:Arre Shivji, you are not on my ignore list - it was published in ToI. Why would I release secret information? This the overwhelming evidence that Sri. Jaitley was referring to on the floor of the house.

You are on my ignore list though - although you are off temporarily

Maybe you are unaware of etiquette on this forum. A link to a news item, or a reference to your source helps to make it clear that you are not bullshitting but quoting someone. Until then it remains speculation or bullshitting. Please provide a link to what Jaitley said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2015 06:39

A decent timeline

http://www.oneindia.com/new-delhi/gunme ... 18478.html

Last terrorist dead at 4:48pm.
Second at 2:23pm

I think the first terrorist died around 9:00 am right around time SP Baljit Singh died.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 06:44

The distance from Sargodha to Pathankot as the crow flies is about 280 km. Back in 1965 and even in 1971 Sargodha was at the limit of Indian fighter aircraft range for any attack meaning that fighters had little fuel to engage in a dogfight on their return journey if they attacked Sargodha.

A training camp in Sargodha is definitely less vulnerable to any hypothetical Indian action than one in PoK.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 31 Jul 2015 06:45

Arre Shivji Sir, You don't have to do this tandav nritya - you can just ask me to stop posting. I will do so.

The letters from the SG come from 56 APO. That is why I said 56 APO. I figured that experts like yourself would get the reference. I am sure you have received letters like this one http://tinyurl.com/letterslikethis from there. I didn't want to say Nahan but then I recalled that Pravin Sawhney had already published a Force Magazine article about the place. So when you people started pushing me for names I said Nahan. I said Lama Fauj because that is what I have heard it called. I think that may be in the open source side somewhere.

The link to Jaitleyji's speech is in SwamyG's post earlier on the thread. (http://tinyurl.com/qdpwu9q)

Here is the TOI link I was referring to is here (http://tinyurl.com/gpssargodha)

Sahab you can get all this by internet searching yourself - I can understand why someone like Krishna_krishna needs such links - he doesn't know anything but why does an expert like yourself need me to post such links?

After all these years you know I never divulge secret information.

Also Shiv I didn't post in months, there was no need to put me on an ignore list.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Jul 2015 06:53

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 07:11

Harpal Bector wrote:Arre Shivji Sir, You don't have to do this tandav nritya - you can just ask me to stop posting. I will do so.
<snip>

Also Shiv I didn't post in months, there was no need to put me on an ignore list.

Hmm - no sir I am no one to ask you to stop. I don't even see your posts unless I click on a message that says you have made a post.
But it is necessary to point out that you have a unique way of saying unverifiable things to manipulate opinions. The stuff you say is either true or you are simply trolling.

Your involvement with one thread alone - your calm responses to people who have found inconsistencies in what you say suggest that you are a troll. It is necessary to point this out.

The possibility exists that you are telling the truth 100% so help me god. But a person who tells the truth is ineffective unless he can back up his statements with some kind of corroborating information. "You can Google for this" is the sort of useless cheap shot that a thousand Chinese trolls on other forums keep repeating. That fact that you have used that on here does not increase your credibility.

Now let us assume you are a true sthitapragya and you don't care that you are unconvincing but you doggedly choose to simply put down the truth on this thread. That story is unconvincing because if you have information that needs to be shared and no one believes it, a person who is not trolling would either stop posting, or try and make himself more credible. What you are doing is ignoring objections, making lame excuses and continuing to post. This puts your posts higher up in the troll category than someone to be taken seriously.

Now I know that you are too knowledgeable and mature to worry about such accusations from me. But my post is designed for others to read. Whether you read them or not is immaterial to me. So long as others know my opinion of your posts and why I feel that way, my purpose is achieved. You can keep on posting. I no longer have the power to stop you.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 31 Jul 2015 07:17

I have seen people getting suspended or banned for much less provocation on BRF.

Does admins know something that other don't know as a reason for allowing this drama to go on like this? Or this kind of stuff is actually allowed?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2015 07:29

Harpal Bector - no more trolling or you will enjoy a enforced holiday. stick to news and facts from open src if you want to participate.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 31 Jul 2015 07:47

Peoples, back to URL gathering, until we find bit more evidence of a thaadi-stroking, doobie deep-dragging Jernail EbilHobo-bullah.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 07:56

Harpal Bector wrote: Sahab you can get all this by internet searching yourself - I can understand why someone like Krishna_krishna needs such links - he doesn't know anything but why does an expert like yourself need me to post such links?

Classic troll giri. First kick krishna in his butt and then tell shiv that he is such a great guy so he can STFUP.

Point is - shiv may be the greatest thing since Harpal Bector, but why stand on his musharraf to kick krishna-krishna on the backside? This is high level trolling.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Jul 2015 08:01

Sid wrote:I have seen people getting suspended or banned for much less provocation on BRF.
Does admins know something that other don't know as a reason for allowing this drama to go on like this? Or this kind of stuff is actually allowed?

Well, everyone else is still happily responding to the trolling while simultaneously screaming 'don't feed the troll!' What to do onlee ?

We are aware of Harpal Bector's antecedents, his other dormant identities, his long sordid history with BRF, and have been for quite some time. Frankly, the whole matter is just too funny to do anything more but watch and chuckle. Regarding the posts themselves, unfortunately sophisticated CT-giri itself isn't against forum rules. It only became a problem when everyone else started piling on and making it personal.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 08:09

Suraj wrote:
Sid wrote:I have seen people getting suspended or banned for much less provocation on BRF.
Does admins know something that other don't know as a reason for allowing this drama to go on like this? Or this kind of stuff is actually allowed?
Well, everyone else is still happily responding to the trolling while simultaneously screaming 'don't feed the troll!' What to do onlee ?

We are aware of Harpal Bector's antecedents, his other dormant identities, his long sordid history with BRF, and have been for quite some time. Frankly, the whole matter is just too funny to do anything more but watch and chuckle. Regarding the posts themselves, unfortunately sophisticated CT-giri itself isn't against forum rules. It only became a problem when everyone else started piling on and making it personal.

The man is sophisticated enough to bait enough people into thinking that he has something important to say and when they figure it out and look like jackasses I think it is definitely something for a troll to have a chuckle about. But if admins are watching dozens of posters being taken for a ride and respond with a chuckle because the admins knew but posters did not - it does not help aam Abduls to be told that they have been had and then rapping them on the knuckles for responding. The troll wants responses and gets them and then gets let off for it. If admins knew all this - particularly this mysterious reference to "other dormant identities" why were they waiting? To have a chuckle at BRFites expense and then quoting a rule book made up by admin consensus is unfair.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Jul 2015 08:13

We have acted on the matter - in fact three mods just have. We can't really shut down to everyone coming up with a crazy idea. We take action when there seems to be no self-moderation on the part of the posters themselves, who would otherwise be expected to ignore trolling for what it is. There are plenty of folks who have survived for ever despite such opinions, for example, certain perma-Russophiles on the mil forum.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 08:17

Unfortunately the utility of this thread has been, in my view, permanently trolled into history. Perhaps a new thread is on order as a follow up to the Gurdaspur attack. I will wait and see if there is anything further that comes up - but there seems to be nothing substantial at this point in time to warrant a new thread.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2015 08:26

A_Gupta wrote:shiv asked:
As a change of subject, let me ask a question

1. If Modi goes to Pakistan who will guarantee that he stays alive?
2. If Modi is killed in Pakistan, are we going to nuke Bakistan? With Indians making Bectidiotic arguments and possibly MSA and Dogvijay dancing with joy at Modi's death - who is actually interested in following up with some action oif Modi gets wajib up qatl in Pakistan?
There is no guarantee, and so I hope that he does not go. Since more powerful nations like the US and China have had their leaders not go to Pakistan - delay or cancel their visit - because of security conditions, there would be nothing out of the ordinary for PM Modi to change his mind in 2016. And remember, he accepted a visit for SAARC, not for a real state visit to Pakistan.

Precisely.

Remember what Clinton did? A surreptitious visit in a decoy plane.

Modi should not go to Pakistan. Having Modi killed in Pakistan will leave us with the same dilemmas that we have after the last 5000 Indian deaths caused by Pakis.

If you look at a report you have posted (I will respond separately) - the Pakistanis are saying that we should "be cooperative" in responding to the Gurdaspur killings. That actually means "Both India and Pakistan are facing terrorism from the same groups and we must cooperate" A perfectly reasonable request untill you realize that the groups who are doing the killing has Pakistani sate support which is denied by the state.

Now if Modi is killed in Pakistan what would we do?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 Jul 2015 08:40

The man is sophisticated enough to bait enough people into thinking that he has something important to say and when they figure it out and look like jackasses I think it is definitely something for a troll to have a chuckle about.

In fact it was obvious he was making it up as he went along. There was no intelligence behind the tale of sound and fury to ensure a semblance of internal consistency.

And his answer to my query (okay I admit it, it was a trap) on timescale of India's response only confirmed his lack of ingenuity. Frankly it was an insult to my intelligence and rather embarrassing.

@sanjaykumar

If they know the timescale, they can calibrate their options. For example, if I know that you take 10 days to get back at me for something, then I know that in 1-10 days time I need to have a defensive measure in place to deflect your blow. if I can put that into action right now then there is little to worry about, but if not then I need to do something to make sure I have that kind of capability.

I am somewhat surprised at some other people's gullibility.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 31 Jul 2015 08:56

Folks, no more

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 31 Jul 2015 09:04

Don't feed HB

<trolling image removed>

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jul 2015 09:23

The GPS sets are probably worthless misinformation. First, these days why do you need anything more than a tiny Garmin or a Nokia phone (no subscription or even SIM needed)? Do they provide differential GPS down to 0.1m precision? Surely not needed. They must have terminal area photos memorized, so getting to the general vicinity is enough, and that can be done with a cellphone. So why 'GPS sets'? I realize that these aces are madarssa grads, but still any brat these days knows how to use phone GPS.

Secondly, all these deep analyses on why the Pakis did this. Come on, there is a simple expanation. They have some 139 million terrorists. At least once a month they have to has SOME action other than buggering each other, hain? So they go out and shoot at Indian Polis, try to derail a train, shoot at a bus. Go to houristan. Equivalent of a Boyz Saturdin Night.

Read history. Pakis have been stealing cows, killing villagers, nonstop since 1947. Israelis have the same experience with their kind neighbors. No common factor implied of course.