Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

[Anujan]

"Dilip Kumar ended the Kargil war" is kinder on H&D than "Musharraf kicking ended the Kargil war" hain ji?

Next story. How Nargis ended 1971 war.

[Falijee]

Pakistani Journalist Feels Afghan Heat In Kabul
Mistrust and hostility: A Pakistani journalist in Afghanistan

As a TV anchor, I'll readily admit that our electronic media neglects covering Pak-Afghan relations. Why? Because it will not bring in ratings.
This is also part of the reason why Pakistan’s biggest TV channels have few to no correspondents in Kabul or other cities in Afghanistan.

I decided I would address this gap by visiting Kabul myself. I wanted to learn more about the perceptions of Afghan people. I also wanted to meet with politicians and social workers to understand the trust deficit between our two countries.

First impression: the Kabul International Airport looked like a US air base. I was immediately approached by a member of the airport staff who started conversing in Urdu; this put me instantly at ease. Unfortunately, this welcome was short-lived as I reached the security checkpoint.

I said I was Pakistani. They said I should remove my shoes. My luggage was carefully scrutinised. And there was a very, very long list of questions. This was repeated at all subsequent security checks.

RAA agents in action

Each call that I made to coordinate my scheduled interviews carried an often hostile undertone.

‘…I am a Pakistani journalist.

No, I am not an ISI agent.

I am in Afghanistan for work.

I am a journalist…’

The current mood in Kabul is quite anti-Pakistan, or to be more precise, anti-ISI. Most Afghans do not hate Pakistan per se, but the ISI, they staunchly believe, supports the Afghan Taliban and has vested interests in destabilising their country. While the ISI was berated by many, whenever I asked for specifics, I only got half-stories, hearsay and no evidence. Similar to the three part dossier submitted by Pakistan to a UN clerk

Indian intelligence, on the other hand, has close relations with Afghan intelligence. I learn that being on good terms with the Indian embassy in Kabul can really help you gain the trust of the Afghan interior ministry.interior ministry infiltrated by RAA agents ?

On the condition of anonymity, a senior politician (a jihadi in the past) told me that the national unity government in Afghanistan did not understand the importance of 'good relations' with the ISI. He stressed that Afghanistan needed to prioritise its relations in the region, which just wasn't happening.

In his view, Pakistan was not handling the matter of talks very well either. What they are doing under the table must be stopped, he said cryptically, before adding that the NDS and the government did not trust him and that he openly admitted to being pro-Pakistan.

The journalist community in Kabul is of the view that the two countries should build better relations with each other. In their view, miscreants ? a very over-used word in Pak Media in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India are actively working to prevent this.

I also met Afghan women social activists, who wanted bold decisions from their government. They did not believe in enforced brotherhoods and wanted a globalised, progressive and modern Afghanistan. They did however think that a pro-Pakistan attitude was never useful to them and that Pakistan had actually used them.

So the recent pronouncements from Rawalpindi/ Islamabad regarding "brotherly relations" was not "purchased" by the Afghan general public

When I spoke to Afghan government officials, they avoided the camera, and the reason was straightforward: “It won't be right to give an interview to a Pakistani journalist right now.” I got diplomatic (empty) answers to most of my questions.

Dr Rangin Dadfar Spanta, former foreign minister and national security adviser to former Afghan President Hamid Karzai, shared the same sentiments.
Dr Rangin Dadfar Spanta, former foreign minister and national security adviser to former Afghan President Hamid Karzai. — DawnNews screengrab
“Pakistan is interfering in the internal matters of Afghanistan,” he said, citing a serious concern ...

To sum up my sojourn, I would say that the ties between Pakistan and Afghanistan are complex, ...

[Prem]

Modi pushes 'obsolete' made-in-India plane on reluctant military
Modi Modi Modi: baki are Concerned about our Military and Modi

NEW DELHI: India's government has turned down its military's request to expand the acquisition of 36 fighter planes from Dassault Aviation SA to plug vital gaps, officials said, nudging it to accept an indigenous combat plane 32 years in the making.Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's decision, in line with his Make-in-India policy to encourage domestic industry, is a blow for not only the French manufacturer but also others circling over the Indian military aviation market worth billions of dollars.Retired Air Marshal M. Matheswaran, a former deputy chief of the Integrated Defense Staff, said the LCA was obsolete."It is a very short-range aircraft which has no relevance in today's war fighting scenarios. If you are trying to justify this as a replacement for follow-on Rafales, you are comparing apples with oranges."He said the plane was at best a technology demonstrator on which Indian engineers could build the next series of aircraft, not something the air force could win a war with.

[Prem]

Imran Khan wants to create 1971-like Pakistan: Daniyal Aziz

Paki Pagal 71 Ki chinta Kyon Saatatai Hai, Zardari,Imran,Bugti,Altaf Bhai India Ke Saathi Hain

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) leader, Daniyal Aziz on Wednesday slammed Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan, saying the latter wants to create a 1971-like Pakistan under a specific agenda.In a statement issued here, Aziz said Khan will not be allowed to accomplish an anti-country agenda on the pretext of bye-elections.He said the ‘umpire’ did not raise his finger which has left Khan seeking people’s support on the streets.The PML-N leader said Khan’s invitation to the entire Punjab is tantamount to admitting that the people of Lahore choose not to attend PTI’s public rallies. “PTI is a name of a clique that comprises of land mafia, sugar mafia and corrupt people,” Aziz claimed.

[kmkraoind]

All pakis have to pay a part of their Zakat to LeT/JuD who send their terrorists for India to kill Kaffirs. Even Paki players and artists are no exception for this rule. Pampering these Pakis means funding our own death. It would be sad, but some of the bullets/grenades that were used in 26/11 were funded by Indians themselves.

Till Paki mends its ways, better to boycott/ban the so called frigging Paki cultural-sports personnel from India.

Here are tweets of Sushant Sareen. ‏

sushant sareen ‏@sushantsareen
- Ghulam Ali told a fmr Indian HC whom he thought was a paki diplomat of his contempt for kafirs but his love for kafir money. 1/2
- Ghulam Ali was blacklisted for many yrs after his kafir comment & only after money dried that he now talks peace. So much for cultural ties
- It was a pvt conversation so cant name the man. he was DHC in 1990s & was on same PIA flight as GA when this happened. He later went as HC

[Prem]

The honesty deficit
Modiveni, DovalVidi Indiavici

We have continued to fall for the possibility of a ‘dialogue’ repeatedly, paying for it by an induced numbness of a softening rhetoric till we are made to appear without clothes before the world; and shamed at home when we get found out. This gives cause to more guffaws, in New York.
Don’t get me wrong. When you want to resolve issues, what the PM stated on Kashmir is roughly what will shape the course of such a resolution; but why wouldn’t there be any takers for such an offer? First, I don’t think the world believes us, or at least our seriousness on what we say. If we quote Kashmir, Siachen and the LoC to paint India in a bad light, the Indians retort with terrorism and the LoC, again, to prove our insidiousness. Earlier they only had Mumbai to prove their point, now they have added to their repertoire courtesy some home-grown enactment at Gurdaspur and Udhampur. We are late to the game of dossiers, and have produced some, finally, in evidence of the Indian mischief in Balochistan and Fata via Afghanistan.How much weight these will carry is only a matter of conjecture. With the speech or without the speech, with the dossiers or without the dossiers, it was not exactly that the world was falling over itself to get involved in the India-Pakistan quagmire. They have, as always, kept their distance – smiling away the juvenile quibble, and proving the point that whatever these two countries do is mostly driven by their domestic branding.
The trouble is also in how India perceives its relations with Pakistan. From bilateralism, the mantra that gave India exclusive hold over what to talk about, when to talk or whether to talk at all, they have now graduated to the point of believing that they actually do not want to talk at all with Pakistan. They realise that were they to talk with Pakistan, whenever, it will be on a list of issues which will require India to give something away as a result of the intended resolution. Who in their right (Indian) mind will give up what they already own? That is the problem with the current format on how the issues between India and Pakistan are framed. It is time to rethink the terms of engagement and make intended resolutions mutually gainful. Old wine will not do. On Kashmir, it is the remaining part of the state; hence the refrain of atoot-ang. The Indians have instead begun to eye what we own. They unabashedly extend their claim to the northern areas and have successfully had international funding for Diamer-Bhasha stalled – claiming it to be ‘disputed’ territory. Somehow such formulation has missed our attention. Whatever India does on the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab, even within the run-of-the-river construct, also happens to be in a disputed region. Pakistan too must raise sufficient noise to seek parity in treatment; otherwise the certainty of Indian investment already made in permanent structures could alter the case to its advantage were any adjudication sought on the issue.

Siachen is India’s intended gateway to reclaiming the Aksai Chin. As it holds its position on the ridges, it sets itself north-west of Pt 9842 towards Indra Kol which will bring the ceded areas of the larger Aksai Chin in its contiguous proximity. That way India can also keep Pakistan’s north in play, casting a virtual shadow over the extended regions of Kashmir. It is in this backdrop that it objects to the CPEC. India finds support of its position, for the world at large is wary of the expanding Chinese influence. There is also the minor matter of Hillary’s new Silk Route vs China’s Old Silk Route. Were Hillary Clinton to become America’s new president in 2016, what are semantics now may just flip into a competitive discomfort.Modi and his men are a problem too. Ajit Doval is an operator who has been given the keys to the Pakistan policy. When ‘operators’ design ‘policy’, it usually spells disaster. That is why there is no respite in the cycle of violence that continues to bedevil both countries in a tit-for-tat resort at the LoC and the Working Boundary. This leaves space for evil genius to contrive hostilities and hate between the two countries. Sushma Swaraj is a livewire. In 2001, when Musharraf almost brokered a breakthrough at Agra, and gave away almost all, it was this wily wielder of influence that kept hopping from one media-camp to another insinuating Musharraf’s overreach at the breakfast the day before. Ultimately, the sprightly Swaraj and some of her more belligerent colleagues denied India, and Musharraf, their moment of truce. As the leader of the opposition in the Lok Sabha, she was never the diligent deliberator but an impulsive grandstander. At the UN she took that role literally. One wonders how Hina Rabbani Khar would dealt with her? And why can’t we have Khar back as the foreign minister? It just might turn some good magic on. If not bilateralism, some bipartisanism at home may just be the cure we need.

[Falijee]

“Zardari was better than Nawaz Sharif”: Imran Khan

OKARA (Web Desk) – Pakistan Tehreek e Insaf (PTI) Chairman, Imran Khan once again slams Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) as he declared former president and Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) Co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari better than Nawaz Sharif.quote]
Because "Dus Percenti" did not interfere on Imran's home turf?

“Mian sb (Nawaz Sharif) is the most corrupt person in Pakistan,” he claimed.

Nothing new being said over here

Shareef family only knew how to make money,” he said “nation was in need for schools instead of Metro bus.”

Bet more "commission" money can be made in making metro buses than in building schools, so Immy is right on that score.

Khan slammed government of Pakistan and declared Prime Minister as a beggar. PTI chief cleared that this political gathering is not organised to boost up the campaign of NA 144, this gathering is arrange to wake up the nation.

Vice chairman PTI Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that he joined PTI to help Imran Khan in revolution. Shah Mehmood also denied the rumors of clashes with party.
This lota politician foresaw the writing on the wall and abandoned the PPP sinking ship to hitch his fortune with the Kaptaan.Almost all of the Paki Politicians fall into that category

Shah Mehmood clarified that he did not join PTI for position. ” I just want to change the system of Pakistan under the banner of of PTI”, he added.

While addressing political gathering, Shah Mehmood slammed Pakistan Peoples Party for black politics.

[Falijee]

Imran Khan wants to create 1971-like Pakistan: Daniyal Aziz

Paki Pagal 71 Ki chinta Kyon Saatatai Hai, Zardari,Imran,Bugti,Altaf Bhai India Ke Saathi Hain

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) leader, Daniyal Aziz on Wednesday slammed Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan, saying the latter wants to create a 1971-like Pakistan under a specific agenda.In a statement issued here, Aziz said Khan will not be allowed to accomplish an anti-country agenda on the pretext of bye-elections.He said the ‘umpire’ did not raise his finger which has left Khan seeking people’s support on the streets.The PML-N leader said Khan’s invitation to the entire Punjab is tantamount to admitting that the people of Lahore choose not to attend PTI’s public rallies. “PTI is a name of a clique that comprises of land mafia, sugar mafia and corrupt people,” Aziz claimed.

Jhujar-ji :
To make sure that Imran's party does not emerge victorious in the coming by-elections, a concerted media smear campaign is being waged on the Kaaptan by Ganja's henchmen; first, it was the rumour of "jewish money" funding PTI, now it is the anti-country agenda and other such nonsenses. I am surprised that no allegations are coming out against Mrs Imran Khan or maybe, they are just not being reported in the press

[RCase]

Imran Khan wants to create 1971-like Pakistan: Daniyal Aziz

Paki Pagal 71 Ki chinta Kyon Saatatai Hai, Zardari,Imran,Bugti,Altaf Bhai India Ke Saathi Hain

After 71 comes 72. Dimran and his inqalab might just do it for Pakistan's 72, Inshallah!

[ramana]

Immy is sounding incoherent like Rahul Gandhi.

[Falijee]

Pakistan Not Normal - Declared Bipolar By Anal-yst

The old adage that necessity is the mother of invention is fully operational in Pakistan. Out of necessity of dealing with a powerful military, which has in the past overthrown civilian governments a few times, a new reality is emerging in Islamabad. The civilian government of Nawaz Sharif has accepted the role of the military as a co-partner in state affairs and the military under the command of General Raheel Sharif has realized the necessity of political institutions for a fragile country composed of complex ethnic dynamics.

Prime Minister Sharif selected General Sharif as the Chief of Army Staff and General Sharif saved the Prime Minister from being overthrown by disgruntled forces. Both Sharifs, the inventors of bipolarity, are popular among the people. Both are calm in demeanor and meet regularly to share common concerns.

Badmaash is incompetent and is more interested in making money than good governance;Raheel is unsettled due to Modi-ji's new Pak policy; Raheel is more "occupied" in dealing with "miscreants" in FATA and Balochistan; Raheel wants to assure Chini-Blothers of the security situation in light of the so-called CPEC; Raheel is running pillar to post to make sure US Moolah keeps coming in light of the Afghanistan draw down; Raheel has too much on his plate for one person ! Raheel cannot assume direct power due to Kerry Lugar Act; hence Pakis suffer from Bi-polarism

The emerging bipolarity is more than a personal alliance between the two Sharifs. The bipolarity appears to be gathering the approval of many politicians, media houses, high judiciary, and most importantly, the people of Pakistan. Except for political puritans who wish to subordinate the military to the civilian government, most political operatives understand that neither generals alone nor politicians alone can take the country forward through the sticky muddle of geopolitical challenges and domestic problems.

The "medicine" (Dollar, used military equipment, invite to US) prescribed by the "Doctor" (AKA Massa ) appears to be "working" and may reduce the Bi-polarism in the future.

Several factors have shaped the bipolar form of government.

1. The generals have realized that the people of Pakistan do not support military governments and become restless soon after the military coup and wish to restore electoral politics...
Better to stay in the background

2. The generals have also realized that a military government that has overthrown the constitution is more vulnerable to international blackmail from influential countries.

Because the Pak Army is considered a rentier fauj by other nations (U.S. Saudia etc )

3. The politicians have realized that the military enjoys tremendous goodwill among the people. Alienating or ignoring the armed forces in decision-making processes complicates rather than simplifies the mechanics of governing.

Guardians of "Paki Ideology"? - whatever that means

4. Pakistan is a highly diverse country with numerous linguistic, ethnic, and cultural groups.

Pakisatan is an artificial entity- plain and simple; bound to disintegrate in the short or long term...

5. With free press and independent judiciary, the cost of maintaining military dictatorship has risen tremendously. It is no longer possible to repress a vibrant media ...

The anal-yst is obviously unaware that things have changed since last Dec after to APS attack

Political puritans, whether they are politicians, journalists, or judges, might resent a civil-military bipolar form of government.

The power of the Deep State is very pervasive; Hamid Mir is a good example; again the anal-yst is ignoring this...

...The media and the judiciary may serve as vigilant overseers in supporting the civil-military bipolarity.

This farticle is obviously "manufactured" for western audiences who believe that Pakistan is becoming a "vibrant" democracy; But the author is not incorrect in his diagnosis - PAKISTAN SUFFERS FROM BI-POLARISM ( and other sundry illnesses!)

[Prem]

[quote="Falij"Jhujar"]Imran Khan wants to create 1971-like Pakistan: Daniyal Aziz[Daniyal-Aziz]Paki Pagal 71 Ki chinta Kyon Saatatai Hai, Zardari,Imran,Bugti,Altaf Bhai India Ke Saathi Hain[/url]After 71 comes 72. Dimran and his inqalab might just do it for Pakistan's 72, Inshallah!

[/quote]

Alhamdullilah, IndiaAllah

Pakistan hai ik Chaanv Dalti,
Akhari Saanse Baki Hai,
Altaf Bhai Apna Saathi Hai !!

[Peregrine]

Pakistani singer Ghulam Ali's concert in Mumbai cancelled

MUMBAI: Pakistani ghazal legend Ghulam Ali's concert in Mumbai scheduled on October 9 has been cancelled.

Cheers

[Gagan]

^^^
Good riddance.
These singers and dancers are looked down upon in Pakistani society and are called "Marasi".
They and the Heera Mandi girls and their families are treated as second class citizens by the Pakjabi society, they are not welcome in Pakjabi homes, except in the outer portion for the singers and dancers and the bedrooms for the 'girls'

Gulam Ali, when he said that he hated Kafirs, but liked kafir money, was only saying out loud what has been inculcated into the muslims of the Indian subcontinent. This bigotry is unabashed and open in Pakistan, and displaying it openly means earning more 'sawab'.
I for one fully support boycotting the likes of Gulam Ali, Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, and other of their ilk.

[Anujan]

At last!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

After PoK, India turns focus on Balochistan

After highlighting the alleged human rights violations in the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), India is preparing to take an aggressive position on Balochistan, in a marked departure from South Block’s Pakistan policy of the past.

The new Indian position over Balochistan became public when Balochistan Liberation Organisation (BLO) representative Balaach Pardili addressed a gathering in New Delhi on October 4, reading out a statement from BLO’s exiled leader Nawabzada Hyrbyair Marri.

We have to give some moral, political and diplomatic support for Baloch people's legitimate struggle for freedom against state oppression where 1 million Pakistani soldiers have killed and raped 1 million Baloch people, where like Palestine and other oppressed places, people hope for a free future. Core issue should include the emotional issue of Balochistan.

[Prem]

Qadri Ki Qadiriat Ko Qadirsalam Karro: Raat Ko Khao Piyo, Din mey kaffir Maaro
Qadri’s supporters dub Justice Khosa ‘blasphemer’, ‘worthy of murder’

Lahore: Some 150 workers of religious parties representing Barelvi school of thought have staged a late night protest demonstration against the Supreme Court (SC) decision of upholding death sentence to Mumtaz Qadri for assassination of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer.The protest was staged in front of Lahore Press Club.The speakers at the protest gathering called for release of Qadri and warned of countrywide protests if their demand was not accepted. One of the speakers at the protest also dubbed Justice Asif Saeed Khosa, who had headed the three-member SC bench hearing Qadri’s appeal, a ‘blasphemer’.“Through his verdict against Mumtaz Qadri the judge has also committed blasphemy and insulted the Prophet (PBUH)” the speaker said inciting the workers who roared in applause. “The judge is also worthy of murder,” he added. Qadri had killed Taseer after the then governor of Punjab had called the blasphemy law “black law” and expressed support for Asia Bibi who had been accused of blasphemy.

[Anujan]

^^^

If the Judge didnt plan to commit Blasphemy in the future, why would he be afraid of people who kill Blasphemers? Why hand death sentence to those who kill Blasphemers, unless the Judge has a plan to commit Blasphemy in the future? I share the outrage!

[member_20385]

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/aft ... 735545.ece

After highlighting the alleged human rights violations in the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), India is preparing to take an aggressive position on Balochistan, in a marked departure from South Block’s Pakistan policy of the past.

The new Indian position over Balochistan became public when Balochistan Liberation Organisation (BLO) representative Balaach Pardili addressed a gathering in New Delhi on October 4, reading out a statement from BLO’s exiled leader Nawabzada Hyrbyair Marri.

[shiv]

^^^

If the Judge didnt plan to commit Blasphemy in the future, why would he be afraid of people who kill Blasphemers? Why hand death sentence to those who kill Blasphemers, unless the Judge has a plan to commit Blasphemy in the future? I share the outrage!

er I think this needs to be debated in benis. It is too complicated for me to follow on the rat-brain thread

[Peregrine]

Delhi government invites Ghulam Ali to perform in national capital

NEW DELHI: The Arvind Kejriwal government today invited Pakistani singer Ghulam Ali to perform in the national capital after his concert in Mumbai was cancelled due to Shiv Sena protests, saying "music has no boundaries".

Delhi Culture Minister Kapil Mishra Kalidas said the Pakistani Singer is welcome to come to Delhi for holding a performance.

Cheers

[Falijee]

Indian Army opposes govt’s plan for border embankments
Mischievous Article By Paki Newspaper ?

According to the paper, this is the same project over which Pakistan complained to the UN Security Council a few days ago. Pakistan’s Ambassador to UN Maleeha Lodhi, in a letter to the President of the Security Council, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, alleged that India was planning to construct a ‘wall’ along the border, which it called a working boundary, to convert it “into a quasi international border”.

All the more reason, the project should go go ahead

[Gagan]

Shiv ji
why are you directing all traffic to BENIS hain ji?
Were you involved with this new fangled chi chi ness on TSP dhaga?

Some BR members don't understand urdu/punjabi very well, and want to relegate all such material off the TSP dhaga it seems!

[arun]

Indian Army opposes govt’s plan for border embankments

Mischievous Article By Paki Newspaper ?

According to the paper, this is the same project over which Pakistan complained to the UN Security Council a few days ago. Pakistan’s Ambassador to UN Maleeha Lodhi, in a letter to the President of the Security Council, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, alleged that India was planning to construct a ‘wall’ along the border, which it called a working boundary, to convert it “into a quasi international border”.

All the more reason, the project should go go ahead

No. The article is sourced from The Hindu:

Army opposes plan for bund on border; PMO to take a call

[Peregrine]

Finally the Penny Drops!

No prospects of Pakistan-India cricket series, says PCB chairman

LAHORE: The chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Shahryar Khan said Thursday that he could not see any prospects of a cricket series between India and Pakistan.

So all the rantings of Durpook Sher aka "Bheegi Billi" were nothing but Bluff and Bluster!
Cheers

[shiv]

Shiv ji
why are you directing all traffic to BENIS hain ji?
Were you involved with this new fangled chi chi ness on TSP dhaga?

Some BR members don't understand urdu/punjabi very well, and want to relegate all such material off the TSP dhaga it seems!

I think benis has simply lost its value with a lot of humour, and till a few weeks ago even pinglish being posted on this thread. But in the last decade the news from Pakistan has more than doubled and at least half is humorous and laugh worthy. Benis has no role if we post all the funny news here and have the laughs here.

There is another issue. Because the internet itself has changed - anyone with a Twitter or Whatsapp account can receive a constant feed of Pakistan news and comment funny and unfunny. So what are these two threads doing? What is benis doing? I also feel that benis itself puts off people who don't want to write in Pinglish but just want to have a laugh and post something funny in normal English. So benis has been made into a club in which only those with some Pinglish skills and something funny to post will use.

I don't want to say it but why have benis at all if all the funny stuff is posted here? Just for pinglish writers?

I think anything fun should go on benis with no insistence on use of pinglish. Since pingrezi is discouarged here, benis is the place for it. But benis should allow non pingrezi fun stuff as well. It's not about chi chi but personally I think this thread has sunk into a rut where people come simply to post Pakistan news and have a laugh, making benis pointless. At 22 pages now, the benis thread is 1 year old; this thread had had at least 5 iterations of 72 pages - or about 14,000 posts since that time.

[Gus]

What's with the excessive font changes and smilies. Makes it very hard on the eyes. It only makes me skip entire post.

[Gagan]

Shiv ji,
Posting videos in urdu/punjabi is discouraged on TSP thread, Posting in pingreji is frowned upon on the TSP thread.

The only thing that goes on unabated are the very long posts which try to psychoanalyze human behaviour. I would ask the mods to have a separate thread for that too, since it seems to be getting in the way of analysis of Pakistan. Those long posts are not very helpful.

[Vipul]

On way out, Manmohan gave PM Modi file on hush-hush Kashmir talks with Pakistan.

Former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf had hammered out a draft framework agreement on Jammu and Kashmir in secret talks, a senior Indian diplomat familiar with the negotiations has told The Indian Express.

Files recording unsigned documents exchanged by the two sides were personally handed over to Prime Minister Narendra Modi by his predecessor at a May 27, 2014 meeting, the diplomat said.

The official spoke even as former Pakistan Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri is in New Delhi to release the Indian edition of his book, Neither a Hawk Nor a Dove — the first insider account of India-Pakistan secret diplomacy on Kashmir.

Kasuri’s book quotes General Musharraf as stating that the secret Kashmir agreement envisaged joint management of the state by India and Pakistan, as well as demilitarisation of the territory.

The Indian negotiator said the final draft of the framework agreement in fact spoke of a “consultative mechanism”, made up of elected representatives of the governments of Jammu and Kashmir and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, as well as officials of the two national governments. The consultative mechanism, he said, was mandated to address regional “social and economic issues”, like tourism, religious pilgrimages, culture and trade.

New Delhi, the official said, had rejected General Musharraf’s push for institutions for joint management of Kashmir by the two states, arguing it would erode Indian sovereignty.

Prime Minister Singh’s hand-picked envoy, Ambassador Satinder Lambah, and General Musharraf’s interlocutors, Riaz Muhammad Khan and Tariq Aziz, held over 200 hours of discussions on the draft agreement, during 30 meetings held in Dubai and Kathmandu.

Lambah, a former intelligence official recalled, was also flown to Rawalpindi on a Research and Analysis Wing jet as negotiations reached an advanced stage, travelling without a passport or visa to ensure the meetings remained secret.“In early talks,” the Indian diplomat said, “Pakistan reiterated its public positions, calling for international monitoring of the Line of Control, and so on. However, it became clear that both General Musharraf and Prime Minister Singh were keen on arriving at an agreement that would allow them to focus on their respective agendas, without conflict over Kashmir sapping their energies.”

“Each paper exchanged between the two sides,” the diplomat said, “was read by him personally, and his instructions were then given to Lambah. There were just two people in the Cabinet, and perhaps three more in the bureaucracy, who were privy to what was going on.”

Later, Prime Minister Singh’s interlocutor on Kashmir, now Governor N N Vohra, was also tasked with briefing secessionist leaders in the state on the looming deal. “I think the agenda is pretty much set,” Kashmir leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq said in an April 2007 interview. “It is September 2007,” he went on, “that India and Pakistan are looking at, in terms of announcing something on Kashmir.”

Prime Minister Singh, a former aide involved in the talks said, was scheduled to begin consultations with his Cabinet and opposition leaders on the deal, when a tide of protest unleashed by Pakistani lawyers pushed General Musharraf into a corner in March, 2007. “He seemed confident the talks would soon be able to revive,” the aide said, “but ended up being swept out of office”.

Former Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari had sought to revive the talks when he took power in 2008, but was prevented from doing so by Musharraf’s successor as army chief, General Pervez Ashfaq Kayani.

“At one time,” Singh admitted at a press conference in 2014, “it appeared that an important breakthrough was in sight. Events in Pakistan — for example, the fact that General Musharraf had to make way for a different setup — I think that led to the process not moving further.”

Key to the agreement, the Indian negotiator said, was an understanding that it would not require ratification by Parliament, or a Constitutional amendment (Mickey Mouse Singh had fool-proof plan of getting his Noble Prize. Ack Thoo on this congressi turd) Thus, the two sides agreed to treat the Line of Control “like an international border”, with agreements to allow for the free movement of goods and people.

Following cessation of “violence and terrorism”, the two sides were to draw down military forces on both sides of the Line of Control to a minimum though India was permitted to maintain full-scale defensive positions.

Lambah declined to be interviewed for this article, but the official said the language of speech he delivered at Kashmir University in 2014 “was near-identical to that used in the final draft”.

Earlier notes exchanged by the negotiators, seen by The Indian Express, also agreed on self-governance for both sides of Kashmir, a proposal first moved by the PDP which now rules the state in alliance with the BJP.

Look at the difference:
A non Nehru-Gandhi chamcha PM Narasimha Rao giving file of the preparation of smiling Buddha II operation to Vajpayee while remitting office. Compare that with Sycophant Manmohan who gives a file for giving up india's interests to PM Modi.
Nehru-Gandhi Paraviar and their followers are a clear and present danger to India's well-being. No doubt about that.

[gandharva]

[shiv]

Shiv ji,
Posting videos in urdu/punjabi is discouraged on TSP thread, Posting in pingreji is frowned upon on the TSP thread.

The only thing that goes on unabated are the very long posts which try to psychoanalyze human behaviour. I would ask the mods to have a separate thread for that too, since it seems to be getting in the way of analysis of Pakistan. Those long posts are not very helpful.

Gagan if you look at the military forum also you will find that videos are posted in specific threads. This is because on slow lines (3G lines on mobile devices in India) the page simply does not load while it tries to retrieve data from YouTube. One of the joys of BRF as opposed to DFI or many other fora is the discipline that allows slow line users to read without spending a lifetime for a data heavy page to load. It is partly for the same reason that large inline images are discouraged. Perhaps you have the luxury of fast internet lines no matter what, but filling this thread up with inline videos is inconsiderate to us unfortunate slow-line cousins. I never watch any of the videos even on fast lines - I exercise the option of ignoring them completely. I personally think Zaid Hamid is not funny at all and invariably ignore anything about him.

I can see your point about posts that you do not like but perhaps you could exercise your right to ignore them?

I will certainly start using this thread for fun posts minus pinglish which I can't be bothered to use personally. As far as I am concerned the Benis thread can die a natural death - for me that thread died when its name was changed from Pakistan Enlightened Nuclear Islamic State to it current pseudosecular name.

[A_Gupta]

Shiv,
IMO, simply start a "India-Pakistan:News & Analysis" thread. Copy the first post of the STFUP thread onto that. This new thread will have no 72.

[Abhay_S]

Farticle of the Year award goes to These guys

http://www.dawn.com/news/1211570/weapons-of-war



Weapons of war
Hasan Ehtisham | Ahsan Ali Zahid


RECENTLY, the Federation of American Scientists reported that the Indian Intercontinental Ballistic Missile project is intensifying nuclear competition between India and China. The ICBM is widely seen as a symbol of power projection and hegemonic ambitions.

According to Western analysts, the Indian missile programme has two potential targets, Pakistan and China. However, India’s desire to acquire longer-range missiles indicates that there is a theoretical possibility that in future India could take aim at any major power if it feels threatened.

The Indian media refers to the Agni-V missile as India’s first ICBM, tested twice in 2012 and 2013. It can be fired from mobile launchers anywhere in India — thereby giving it second strike ability — and hit large parts of China, Europe and Africa. India is planning to induct the missile into its armed forces with three multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicle (MIRV) warheads.

According to Indian analysts, there is a need to develop long-range, high-speed, nuclear-capable missiles and MIRV capabilities. This can only further aid the country’s nuclear expansion. Taking these factors into consideration, one could argue that India’s ‘no first use’ (NFU) doctrine is merely a pretext to obtain civil nuclear assistance from the US, Canada, Australia, Japan and Russia.


Indian aspirations to become a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council and a major power appear to be based upon its becoming an offensive military state; after the successful test of Agni-V in 2012, India declared itself a major “missile power”. Its next project is an ICBM named Surya, with a 12,000-kilometre range. Although most of its tests have failed so far, its range and that of its predecessor, further raise the risk of a nuclear arms race, which could trigger conflicts that would have global repercussions.

The ICBM is a first strike weapon, which has less survivability in a conflict because of its exposure to a pre-emptive strike. Therefore the induction of long-range ballistic missile capabilities without any appropriate plan to deal with situations that might lead to a nuclear war will lead to further deterioration in the complex global security environment.

The very foundation of India’s biggest nuclear-capable missile is the space launch vehicle technology delivered to it by countries like the US, France and Germany at different times under the rubric of peaceful scientific development. As of now, the Indian Space Research Organisation is enjoying unconditional technological support from Britain and the US, notwithstanding the fact that there seems to be no significant difference between India’s civilian and military rocket programmes.

In 2005, when the US and India were involved in constructing closer ties in space exploration and satellite navigation, there were reliable reports that Indian scientists were attempting to produce an ICBM. Michael Elleman, a former UN weapons inspector, has in the past expressed his view that India’s missile development pattern was “highly unusual.”

Although India has claimed that it is adhering to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) rules, the facts on the ground appear to be quite contrary in that the country is not curtailing the spread of nuclear-capable ballistic missiles. One may well ask: how can India gain membership into the 35-nation MTCR, for which it has applied recently, when it is believed to be involved in exporting the missiles and technology to many African, Gulf and Southeast Asian states below the MTCR threshold? How can a state that is seen as violating the treaty without being a member not do so if it is granted membership?

There was a time when India had shocked the world by diverting Canadian-supplied fuel for research and generating power to make nuclear weapons. In 1989, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists published an article by Gary Milhollin which gave a detailed chronology of how a satellite guidance system meant for peaceful use was incorporated into the Indian missile programme. Milhollin was of the view that the nuclear blast in 1974 “destroyed illusions about the peaceful atom” and “it is not surprising that India has again taken advantage of civilian imports and technology to further what appears to be a nuclear weapons programme”.

From 1946-2012, the US has been the biggest donor of economic aid to India besides facilitating its nuclear expansion; it does not seem to realise the threat that the India missile programme poses to its interests. In future India could assume a confrontational stance against it over Middle East oil or side with Russia in a conflict, or even confront Russia over Central Asia. Likewise, the India Rapid Reaction Cell: the US must rethink its policies before it is too late, or else it will have to set up another special cell called ‘How to contain India?’

[Rahul M]

What's with the excessive font changes and smilies. Makes it very hard on the eyes. It only makes me skip entire post.

seconded.

@Falijee, please go easy on the technicolour posts.

[Rahul M]

>> As of now, the Indian Space Research Organisation is enjoying unconditional technological support from Britain and the US, notwithstanding the fact that there seems to be no significant difference between India’s civilian and military rocket programmes.


britain helps us in rocketry & missiles ??
the country which depends on other countries (including India) to launch their sats ?

[abhijitm]

This bewildering intellectual incompetence among almost all pakis always makes me wonder what kind of human race is this?

Like C Fair said, it is indeed an achievement for pakis they have survived for so long! Every dawn is a new beginning and dusk is a victory.

[Abhay_S]

This bewildering intellectual incompetence among almost all pakis always makes me wonder what kind of human race is this?

Like C Fair said, it is indeed an achievement for pakis they have survived for so long! Every dawn is a new beginning and dusk is a victory.

I think This is more a case of Carefully choreographed propaganda. look at the timing.

[abhijitm]

This bewildering intellectual incompetence among almost all pakis always makes me wonder what kind of human race is this?

Like C Fair said, it is indeed an achievement for pakis they have survived for so long! Every dawn is a new beginning and dusk is a victory.

I think This is more a case of Carefully choreographed propaganda. look at the timing.

Indeed it is! This is a sly attempt to do == with India when there is a talk of nuke deal in air.

[Abhay_S]

Now that the Paki's national Bird is the drone. they should change their Qaumi Symbol to '=='

[CRamS]

Guys, I am posting this puke-worthy town hall sort of meeting conducted by Razdan bibi almost cowering before Kasuri, and the audience included MMSJi, AdvaniJi etc.

I like Yashwant Sinha's take on no talks with TSP, and putting MMS on the spot declaring that MMS has not revealed to the nation on what he agreed to with MushRat. I was stumped though by his very last statement (go to the end) that kirket is pee pee contact and must not be impacted. Either he was taken aback by the baiting question by the clueless Razdan and just impulsively answered, or is as strategically confused as the despicable clown setting to his left. I mean anybody who thinks that kirket and Paki killing of our people and soldiers along the LoC is pee pee contact needs a a re-think, and certainly they must realize that denying TSP the amount of revenue it reeks from such an endeavor is one of the few leverages India has over TSP, and must be exercised

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... mir/386096

[Falijee]

Rahul-ji wrote:

@Falijee, please go easy on the technicolour posts.

Will do as suggested- Thanks