Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Sep 2015 23:44

abhijitm wrote:^^ I have to agree Shreeman on this. All Sikhs I met so far make me believe Sikhs will not welcome pakistani refugees. Not sure about Punjabi hindus. Many "seculars" among them it seems.

Its workload divided , Sikhs are adamant on handing hundreds of Shilkas and Hindus hundreds of old L70 . Though both agree that direct mode is the best mode to dispense , distribute Sweet candy for Pakjabi refugees with blood sugar on their Eastward march.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 13 Sep 2015 23:47

Pakistan violates ceasefire again, 1 BSF officer killed in mortar shelling in J&K

JAMMU: Barely 24 hours after Pakistan agreed with India that there were will be no mortar shelling on each other, troops from the other side fired mortar bombs along the LoC in Rajouri district of Jammu & Kashmir in a fresh ceasefire violation killing a BSF officer.

"There was ceasefire violation by Pakistani troops this evening by resorting to mortar shelling on forward posts along LoC in Manjakote sector of Rajouri district," a senior BSF officer said on Sunday evening, a day after the Border Security Force(BSF) and Pakistan rangers agreed to uphold the sanctity of ceasefire during the DG-level talks in Delhi.

They fired two 82mm mortar bombs, which exploded near a forward Indian Post in which one Assistant Sub Inspector (ASI) of BSF got severe splinter injuries around 1820 hours, he said.

Later, the injured ASI died, he said, adding that the victim was identified as Sohan Lal, a resident of Sikar district of Rajasthan.

Troops guarding the border on this side also retaliated back.

Troops guarding Pakistani borders earlier in the day opened fire in Samba district along the International Border (IB).

"Pakistan rangers fired three rounds early today morning using small weapons. The fire was aimed at a forward Border out Post (BoP) in Samba," a BSF official said.

He, however, said that the BSF did not retaliate to the fire from across the border.

There have been 15th ceasefire violations in September this year.

Eleven people, including two jawans, were killed and over 30 injured in August in ceasefire violations by Pakistan. There have been over 250 violations of the border ceasefire agreement by Pakistan in the year so far, of which 57 were in August.

As part of efforts to bring peace on the border, India and Pakistan yesterday decided to put a complete ban on firing of mortar shells along the IB in J and K which has claimed the lives of several civilians and damaged their houses.

The two sides also agreed to jointly resolve sensitive issues like ceasefire violations and cross-border infiltration through timely exchange of information, including via email and over telephone.

At the conclusion of the three-day DG-level talks, the two sides inked a 20-point joint record of discussion to follow in the future.

BSF Director General Devendra Kumar Pathak and Pak Rangers DG (Punjab) Maj Gen Umar Farooq Burki signed the official record of talks at the headquarters of BSF after wrapping up their talks that took place almost after a break of two years as relations between the two countries came under strain due to a host of issues on the border.

"The two sides have decided that they will not resort to mortar fire along IB in times of peace. At the same time, it was agreed that the two forces will not use heavy weapons and these sort of weaponry and ammunition will only be used as a last resort," sources said.

Union home minister Rajnath Singh also told the visiting Pakistani delegation on Friday that "Indian forces will not fire the first bullet along the international border".

Cheers

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 13 Sep 2015 23:52

At least 10 people were killed and more than 50 injured on Sunday in Pakistan's Punjab province when explosives carried by an apparent suicide bomber went off after the auto-rickshaw he was traveling in collided with a motorcycle.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 90154.aspx

In some days there will be a blast at every speed breaker in cuckooland. Speed breakers are haraam in Mard e Momeen land anyway.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Sep 2015 23:55

Kanjar Danxxe
New Delhi bound: Top 15 moments from Shaan-e-Pakistan 2015

Held in New Delhi, the event is a mix of fashion exhibits, music and food. The festival kicked of with Eik Shaam Pakistan K Naam where the audience was enthralled by the famous qawal Amjad Sabri.
While a week-long food festival at Eros Hotel is also on the cards, fashionistas are busy making sure that models displaying latest trends are geared up for the ramp.Helmed by Huma Nassr whose brand Braahtii has stores both in Karachi and New Delhi, the initiative aims to promote cordial ties between both countries in order to open gateways for trade in future.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 13 Sep 2015 23:59

The Mandir within Lahore's Aitchison College (designed by Bhai Ram Singh and built by Sir Ganga Ram) has one review on Google Maps:

Mohammad Qasim
a month ago
1 star - I hate indian

The kid loves doraemon & wwe though.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 14 Sep 2015 00:13

Jhujar wrote:
abhijitm wrote:^^ I have to agree Shreeman on this. All Sikhs I met so far make me believe Sikhs will not welcome pakistani refugees. Not sure about Punjabi hindus. Many "seculars" among them it seems.
Its workload divided , Sikhs are adamant on handing hundreds of Shilkas and Hindus hundreds of old L70 . Though both agree that direct mode is the best mode to dispense , distribute Sweet candy for Pakjabi refugees with blood sugar on their Eastward march.

See what you make of this,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rami_Ranger

"Ranger constantly puts his efforts to unite the Indians and Pakistanis living in the UK as he feels that the internecine effects of their enmity has been adversely impacting their cordiality so vital for their mutual benefits and peace between India and Pakistan and their new homeland, Britain."

despite,

"Shaheed Nanak Singh was fiercely against India’s partition and advocated that all should consider themselves to be Indians first and then only go for choosing the religion of their liking for peace of mind. He was killed while trying to save the lives of 600 students of DAV School,[citation needed] Multan (now in Pakistan) who had become caught up in religious riots. Though he could not save his own life, the students were saved."

and

http://www.shaheednanaksingh.com/book.htm

"Inspired by the zeal of their father to serve their country, five of Shaheed Sardar Nanak Singh's sons joined the Indian Armed Forces. The eldest son, Rajinder Singh, was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Army Service Corps in 1951, Rupinder Singh was commissioned in the Corps of Engineers, Devinder Singh was commissioned in the Corps of Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Kulvinder Singh was commissioned in the Regiment of Artillery and Brijinder Singh was commissioned in the Indian Air Force. Pritam Singh became a well known educationist in East Africa and later retired from Inner London Education Authority. The youngest son, Raminder Singh, became a prominent business man in the United Kingdom"

lastly,

http://www.britishkebabawards.co.uk/ram ... r_mbe_frsa

"Rami set up the Pakistan, India & UK Friendship Forum soon after the 7/7 and 21/7 bombings of the London Underground by British citizens of Pakistani origin. He realised that we have to make a conscious effort to build bridges with the Muslim community which was feeling isolated and dejected. He realised that Britain could not move forward by leaving any section of her population behind. Rami recruited prominent Pakistanis in Britain and launched the Forum which proved to be an instant success and thousands of British citizens of Pakistani and Indian origin are now celebrating what unites them in Britain."

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 03:05

Pakistan's Hypocrisy On Syrian Refugees Exposed By Opposition Politician

When Zarb-E-Azab started, we did not even let people of FATA enter Punjab and Sindh, and we ask that Europe must accept Syrian Refugees".
Chaudhary Aitizaz Ahsan

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 03:15

LUMS professor gains internet stardom following hilarious note for students

A Pakistani teacher has gained internet stardom after an image of his hilarious cautionary note for students went viral.

The note humorously highlights that teachers can tell when students use their phones to text in classes. ”Dear students, I know when you’re texting in class. Seriously, no one just looks down at their crotch and smiles,” the note reads.[*]

[*] But then the " Distinguished Professor" should be gently reminded that in this case, we are talking of Pakistan , where all sorts of other alternatives abound and anything is possible ...........

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 03:37

" I affirm you that Musharraf's dictatorship was better than Nawaz's democracy " | Imran Khan 13 Sep[*][/url]

[*] Some of the comments are very interesting

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 03:47

Modern Day Slavery Exists In Pakistan

Working from dawn to dusk has become routine for 11-year-old Sidra Khan. Even though she should not be working under law, Sidra has been toiling away at a brick kiln near Islamabad for several years now. Her parents and other siblings are also employed by owner of the kiln in Tarnol.

Sidra has never been to school, because it has never been a priority for her family. She told Dawn that the kiln-owner employed three families. Her family seemed reluctant to speak to outsiders, but said they had come here from Peshawar, looking for work.

“We never force anyone to bring their children to make bricks. Most families utilise adult men and women in the hopes of increasing their income,” says Abdullah Khan, the owner of the brick kiln. He told Dawn the services of the entire family were hired because they lived and worked in the kiln full-time and worked better than ordinary labourers. He denied the impression that child labour or forced labour was being carried out, at least in his area.[*]

[*]Such blatant violation of child labour laws cannot occur in isolation; surely some "relevant authorities" have been "paid off" to keep quiet and look the other way; the investigating reporting should have covered that angle as well.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 04:29

Do you know where can I find an Urdu translation of Fifty Shades of Grey? [*][/url]

[*] First Prize for the best answer goes to .....

[–]taakqiyaa 11 points 1 day ago

urdu mai cricket commentary suntay hoay hassi àti hai... erotica parhtay hoay kia haal hoga

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Sep 2015 04:41

Watch this Ahmadi Sick man, comparing inbred political roaches & insects with Indic divine figures.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 14 Sep 2015 06:16

Pakistan blast leave several dead at Multan bus station

At least 10 people have been killed and more than 40 injured in an explosion at a bus terminal in the Pakistani city of Multan, officials say.

Officials say the explosion happened when a motorcycle hit a motorised rickshaw at the busy bus stop, causing a large fire.

Police believe one of the vehicles was carrying explosives but forensic teams are still investigating.

Ball bearings were recovered from the site of the explosion.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Sep 2015 06:42

Falijee wrote:Pakistan's Hypocrisy On Syrian Refugees Exposed By Opposition Politician

When Zarb-E-Azab started, we did not even let people of FATA enter Punjab and Sindh, and we ask that Europe must accept Syrian Refugees".

Chaudhary Aitizaz Ahsan

Am in the rare position of agreeing 800% with an individual from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, politician Chaudhary Aitizaz Ahsan in this case regards his comment that “When Zarb-E-Azab started, we did not even let people of FATA enter Punjab and Sindh, and we ask that Europe must accept Syrian Refugees". I had alluded to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s hypocrisy regards treatment of Mohammadden refugees with one rule for the Islamic Republic and one rule for Kaafirs back on Page six of this thread (Clicky):

arun wrote:Nicely timed article by Indian origin Sudarsan Raghavan who is the Washington Post’s Kabul Bureau Chief on the subject of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan forcibly driving away fellow Mohammadden Pathan / Pushtun refugees.

Instead of helping refugees, Pakistan is pushing them into a war zone

Nicely timed as just yesterday there was a news item in the Express Tribune about the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Ambassador to the UN, the academic research plagiarising Maleeha Lodhi (Clicky), delivering a sanctimonious speech in the UN urging the global community not to do what the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is doing and “take immediate action to deal with the growing crisis of forced migration” :

Pakistan calls for urgent action to deal with forced migration

Meanwhile speaking of the gross hypocrisy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the issue of “Forced Migration”, I am posting a July 2014 article by Express Tribune reporting on the military operation Zarb e Azb conducted by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic causing the forced migration of a million fellow Mohammadden Pathan’s from occupied North Waziristan Agency:

1 million IDPs and counting

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Sep 2015 06:46

The upper limit on agreement percentage is 400% until raised by an el presidente of bakistan. Anyone flouting the rule must consider the possibility that their application for candidature for bakistani presidentship might get accepted!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Sep 2015 06:56

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/national/1 ... -in-bajaur

DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Pakistan militants who have pledged allegiance to Islamic State said on Sunday they had attacked a paramilitary checkpoint along the Afghan border, in the first such assault claimed by a former faction of the Taliban in several months. A militant affiliated with the faction told Reuters the group attacked Damadola District of the Bajaur tribal area, where the military has been battling a militant insurgency since 2007, late on Saturday. “Our men destroyed the post, set it on fire and left it after our operation was complete,” he said by telephone. Two Pakistani intelligence officials confirmed a checkpoint had been attacked, but there were no casualties. The Pakistani government says that Islamic State, a group founded in Syria and Iraq in 2013, does not have a credible presence in the country. Several smaller militant groups and factions of the Pakistani Taliban have, however, pledged allegiance to Islamic State and its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi since last year. So far, Islamic State has not formally accepted any of those pledges, nor has its central leadership claimed responsibility for any attacks carried out in Pakistan.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 14 Sep 2015 09:09

Jhujar wrote:Watch this Ahmadi Sick man, comparing inbred political roaches & insects with Indic divine figures.

Shahid Masood seems to take a jab at the mishkeen mohajir converts from India, who are not true muslims to the Pakjabi.

However, for the Pakjabi True Muslim in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, there is no other power than the one power and the PM is its Ghulam.

No other power is worthy of praise than the one true power. All citizens, politicians and TV show hosts must bow to this power daily. This power is the most merciful, peaceful and strikes terror in the hearts of those it deems unworthy. Its omnipotence is radiated by converting any loss into a victory. Those who invoke the wrath of this power will be showered with hellfire from the skies using Fsolahs, Blunders and Burraqs.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Sep 2015 09:46

Brad Goodman wrote:Pakistan blast leave several dead at Multan bus station
At least 10 people have been killed and more than 40 injured in an explosion at a bus terminal in the Pakistani city of Multan, officials say.

Officials say the explosion happened when a motorcycle hit a motorised rickshaw at the busy bus stop, causing a large fire.

Police believe one of the vehicles was carrying explosives but forensic teams are still investigating.

Ball bearings were recovered from the site of the explosion.

Multan is in heart of Pakjab no - in the poorer southern part?

amit · Post by **amit** » 14 Sep 2015 10:13

gandharva wrote:

Aab tera kya hoga? Modi invited to speak at Twitter HQ as well!

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Sep 2015 11:00

JE Menon wrote:A second terrorist has been arrested for the Erawan attack on the Thai-Cambodia border. Judging from his looks he could be of Pak origin from Sindh/Pakjab. Reportedly he was carrying a Chinese passport, and there are suspicions of an Uighur connection - though he looks anything but. Body structure suggests Pak link.

SSridhar wrote:When the blast was reported here and somebody raised a Paki connection that was the most prudent assumption to make and proceed with the investigation on that basis. There are a lot of Pakistani fake passport makers also in Thailand apart from Thailand being a huge safe-house of the ISI. Of course, Thailand is also used by the ISI as a transit point to send Fake Indian Currency Notes(FICN) into India.

Let us recall some Pakistani jihadi terror involvement with Thailand.

•On July 5, 2003, Saifullah Paracha (father of Uzair Paracha) was arrested in Thailand on terror related charges. He has been formally charged with trying to export nuclear weapons under the guise of his textile import-export business. He has also been charged with trying to get Majid Khan (On Mar. 5, 2003, Majid Khan, a relative of convicted Al-Qaeda operative Lyman Faris was arrested in Pakistan for planning to detonate US gas stations. He also provided funds to Jemmah Islamiyah of Indonesia ) a visa to enter the US and indulge in terrorist activities
•On Oct. 13, 2010, the Thailand police arrested 15 Pakistanis on money transfer from the Islamist-insurgency hit southern Thailand to international terror suspects overseas
•On Dec. 01, 2010, the Spanish police arrested six Pakistanis who were helping the LeT and Al Qaeda organizations with forged documents such as passports and ID cards for their terror activities. The mastermind was a Pakistani, Muhammad Ather Butt, operating out of Thailand who was also simultaneously arrested there along with another Pakistani accomplice, Zezan Azzan Butt

Speculation from the 72’d STFUP thread can be put to rest. (Here and Here as Well)

Link of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to the Mohammadden Terrorist attack of the Hindu Shrine to Lord Brahma in Erawan in Bangkok that killed 20, emerges. Malaysian Police reveals a citizen of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been arrested:

Bangkok bomb: Two Malaysians and a Pakistani arrested

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Sep 2015 12:02

BSF dominates talks with Pakistan Rangers, has its way on major points - Aman Sharma, Economic Times

India prevailed over Pakistan to not use the latter's pet terms 'working boundary' and 'ceasefire violations' in the joint record of discussion signed between Border Security Force (BSF) and Pakistan Rangers on Saturday after two days of talks.

The Rangers wanted to use the term 'working boundary' which they denote for the International Border (IB) in Jammu region with India and also put down instances of firing by India across the IB as 'ceasefire violations', a senior government official has told ET. But the term ultimately used in the joint record is 'incidents of firing at the borders', as per a press statement released by the BSF and signed by both sides

"BSF DG DK Pathak told his Pakistani counterpart that neither side should create confusion by insisting on its own terminology and send out a wrong signal at the end of a remarkably cordial round of talks. The back-and-forth over the same delayed the signing of the joint statement by nearly two hours as the Pakistani side took it also to their embassy for checking it with their government. It was supposed to be signed by 9:30 am on Saturday and was ultimately signed after 11 am," a official said. "BSF has dominated the battlefield so far and dominated the talks as well," a home ministry official told ET.

BSF DG DK Pathak also tactfully cornered Pakistan on the issue of intruders and the term 'infiltration attempts' made it to the joint statement. "India has told Pakistan that in future when we see suspicious movement on the border, we will fire an illumination round from a light pistol or a para bomb as a signal to the Rangers that we are opening fire on the infiltrating terrorists and not on the Rangers. Rangers have agreed on the mechanism which will be followed by a joint post-level meeting next morning. Rangers wanted a 'joint investigation' of all such incidents, the BSF prevailed to use the term 'joint verification'," an official said.

Both sides have shared mobile numbers and email IDs of senior officers of either side for faster communication to avoid confusion on firing incidents. "In the past, a protest note on paper was sent which the Pakistan side did not invariably come to receive. The whole process took 15-20 days making the entire purpose," an official said.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 14 Sep 2015 14:02

The naamard ball-scratching RAW agent Nawaz Sharief is scheming to deny mard e momeens their guns.

Sharif Orders Legislation to Make Pakistan 'De-weaponised'

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/S ... 027652.ece

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 14:47

Bhurishrava wrote:The naamard ball-scratching RAW agent Nawaz Sharief is scheming to deny mard e momeens their guns.

Sharif Orders Legislation to Make Pakistan 'De-weaponised'
http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/Sharif-Orders-Legislation-to-Make-Pakistan-De-weaponised/2015/09/14/article3027652.ece

Good Sharif can order, authorize, direct, suggest, summon, and other such hollow gestures, to convey a pretense of his governing authority; no serious observer of the Paki political scene takes this seriously !.

As has happened with similar statements in the past, everyone, and his grandmother knows, that it is up to the Bad Sharif to make it happen !

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 14:51

Bangkok blast: Pakistani among three detained by Malaysia

KUALA LUMPUR: A Pakistani and two Malaysians have been detained in connection with last month's bombing of a shrine in Bangkok that killed 20 people, the national police chief said Monday.

Inspector General Khalid Abu Bakar told reporters that the three were detained a few days ago following a tip-off by Thai authorities. He said one of the Malaysians is a woman.

The August 17 blast at the Erawan Shrine in the Thai capital killed 20 people, including five Malaysians from one family, and injured more than 120.

Thai police say the mastermind of the plot is a 27-year-old ethnic Uighur from China. They said they think the man may have fled to China.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Sep 2015 15:29

SSridhar wrote:BSF dominates talks with Pakistan Rangers, has its way on major points - Aman Sharma, Economic Times
India prevailed over Pakistan to not use the latter's pet terms 'working boundary' and 'ceasefire violations' in the joint record of discussion signed between Border Security Force (BSF) and Pakistan Rangers on Saturday after two days of talks.

The Rangers wanted to use the term 'working boundary' which they denote for the International Border (IB) in Jammu region with India and also put down instances of firing by India across the IB as 'ceasefire violations', a senior government official has told ET. But the term ultimately used in the joint record is 'incidents of firing at the borders', as per a press statement released by the BSF and signed by both sides

"BSF DG DK Pathak told his Pakistani counterpart that neither side should create confusion by insisting on its own terminology and send out a wrong signal at the end of a remarkably cordial round of talks. The back-and-forth over the same delayed the signing of the joint statement by nearly two hours as the Pakistani side took it also to their embassy for checking it with their government. It was supposed to be signed by 9:30 am on Saturday and was ultimately signed after 11 am," a official said. "BSF has dominated the battlefield so far and dominated the talks as well," a home ministry official told ET.

BSF DG DK Pathak also tactfully cornered Pakistan on the issue of intruders and the term 'infiltration attempts' made it to the joint statement. "India has told Pakistan that in future when we see suspicious movement on the border, we will fire an illumination round from a light pistol or a para bomb as a signal to the Rangers that we are opening fire on the infiltrating terrorists and not on the Rangers. Rangers have agreed on the mechanism which will be followed by a joint post-level meeting next morning. Rangers wanted a 'joint investigation' of all such incidents, the BSF prevailed to use the term 'joint verification'," an official said.

Both sides have shared mobile numbers and email IDs of senior officers of either side for faster communication to avoid confusion on firing incidents. "In the past, a protest note on paper was sent which the Pakistan side did not invariably come to receive. The whole process took 15-20 days making the entire purpose," an official said.

BSF needs to continue to dominate the battlefield and automatically, all these talks will go very cordially.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Sep 2015 15:45

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Indian Origin Columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Sadanand Dhume, writes an article in that paper titled “Pakistan’s Unconvincing Strategic Shift” on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting ways:

………….. the argument goes, the Islamic republic is in the midst of completing a wrenching strategic shift away from fomenting terrorism and toward fighting it instead.

But though this view appears to have become popular wisdom in Pakistan, it finds few takers elsewhere

Many Pakistanis view international skepticism toward their country’s war on terrorism as evidence that the world refuses to give Pakistan a fair shake.

In Washington, a parade of visiting Pakistani diplomats and retired generals counsel patience. They portray their country’s fight against the TTP as evidence of a change of heart. Eventually, the argument goes, the army will move against all jihadists. Who can reasonably be expected to take them all on at one go?

The trouble with this story boils down to asking the world to trust Pakistan to do the right thing when it has spent at least the past 35 years doing precisely the wrong thing: arming, funding and training assorted jihadists to fight in Afghanistan and India.

For the WSJ Article : Click Here

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 16:18

U.S.A Not Convinced , Re Pakistan's Strategic Shift - WSJ

The Wall Street Journal Column says that Islamabad needs to go after all terrorists, not merely those who hurt Pakistan

Ever since last year’s horrific attack on a school in Peshawar, Pakistan’s government has gone into overdrive to convince the world that its attitude toward terrorism has changed. As the argument goes, the Islamic republic is in the midst of completing a wrenching strategic shift away from fomenting terrorism and toward fighting it instead.

But though this view appears to have become popular wisdom in Pakistan, it finds few takers elsewhere. In recent weeks, top U.S., Afghan and Indian officials have called on Islamabad to put a lid on a cauldron of jihadist groups that constantly threatens to bubble over.

Last month, the U.S. threatened to withhold $300 million of military aid to Pakistan [*]after U.S. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter refused to certify that it had acted adequately against the Taliban-affiliated Haqqani network. On a visit to Islamabad, National Security Adviser Susan Rice urged Pakistan to do more against militants operating from its territory.

[*] Fullfil your lease agreement, otherwise no rent money will be paid

Unlike his predecessor, Hamid Karzai—a fierce critic of Pakistan’s role in destabilizing Afghanistan by backing insurgents—Mr. Ghani had seen Islamabad as part of the solution rather than part of the problem. But last month he accused Pakistan of continuing to provide sanctuary to mercenaries who “send us messages of war.”

[*][/b]

[*] You can fool some of the people all the time or all of the people for some time, but not all of the people all the time !

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Sep 2015 17:50

Mildly edited for relevant quotes:

A_Gupta wrote:Does Pakistan have a sovereign state, i.e., a state which has the legitimate monopoly on the use of force, enforcement of the law?

It does not.

But that does not mean it is a failed state.

Pakistan is made up of a number of camps, the civilian government with its police, the Pakistani Army, the ISI, the LeT, the various other armed groups -- within limits, each of these has the right to use force

I don't know if there is any equivalent to Pakistan's organization in the modern world.

PS: One could argue that the anti-blasphemy mobs are yet another camp, who are permitted to operate within the context of insults to the Faith.

Don't see how Pakistan is different from Somalia if one accepts that there are different groups that are already jostling for power in pakistan, with one top dog, the paki army. And if so, why is pakistan not a failed state? If we ignore for a moment, just for the sake of argument, the fact that paki army wears an uniform and is a arm of the islamic republic only in name -- it functions more like the Kim Jong Il regime in NoKo, which is readily accepted as a failed state.

So, If we ignore that the army in Pakistan is less an army and more a collection of thugs who wouldn't hesitate to decimate Paki citizens of any shape or form, and thus operate outside any written constitution, then the comparison of pakistan to Somalia (for example) is pretty apt, there are a few dozen warlords with vasrying degrees alliances and hostility that operate together in a common area.

This is exactly the situation decribed in the above post and in the earlier posts about a good part of pakistan, specifically where ever the army writ is not supreme. If this comparison to somalia does not seem too far-fetched, why is one considered a failed state and the other not? They both seem to limp along and the powers in these territories manage to exist on dole and global and local criminal activity, as is the norm when Chaos rules.

Consider this from a dailytimes article in the IS thread:

Quote:
DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Pakistan militants who have pledged allegiance to Islamic State said on Sunday they had attacked a paramilitary checkpoint along the Afghan border, in the first such assault claimed by a former faction of the Taliban in several months. A militant affiliated with the faction told Reuters the group attacked Damadola District of the Bajaur tribal area, where the military has been battling a militant insurgency since 2007, late on Saturday. “Our men destroyed the post, set it on fire and left it after our operation was complete,” he said by telephone. Two Pakistani intelligence officials confirmed a checkpoint had been attacked, but there were no casualties.

I am still ambivalent about US and Paki claims that this IS is actually the same one operating in WAsia, but even if it was and it challenges the paki army, that makes it imperative that India not join any side that works against IS that operates in Pakistan to the army's detriment...though I very much doubt that this IS will work against the paki army, more than it does against the Afghans.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Sep 2015 19:22

Tuvaluan wrote:
Don't see how Pakistan is different from Somalia if one accepts that there are different groups that are already jostling for power in pakistan, with one top dog, the paki army.

Without going into it in detail, e.g., there is Independent Republic of Somaliland in the northwest part of Somalia. There is no such thing in Pakistan.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Sep 2015 19:53

Guys, is there another meeting cooking between ModiJi and the good sheriff?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 90341.aspx

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Sep 2015 20:07

A_Gupta wrote: Without going into it in detail, e.g., there is Independent Republic of Somaliland in the northwest part of Somalia. There is no such thing in Pakistan.

So in your view, the fact that the pakistani army is able to use force/negotiations selectively, except for FATA, is able to exert influence in the area call pakistan, even if it is not the supreme force in that region, as is expected in a functional state. So a further loss of leverage with these militia groups in the various regions is what separates pakistan from a somalia. fair enough.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Sep 2015 20:08

There are definitions of state failure reserved for responsible states who wish to fulfill the economic aspirations of all its people. If the state fails to fulfill these aspirations and in fact creates a setback for their fulfillment, then it is a case of state failure.
In case of Pakistan, such definitions are useless, because the power holders do not have any such altruistic motives. Their motives are self-perpetuation and using Islamic Jihad to blackmail the rest of the world.

So state failure in Pakistan can come about only when the Kabila, the Pakistani Army, the armed Jihadis lose both their influence over the country and stop posing a threat to the rest of the world, especially India. From such a scenario, we are very far off. There is no state failure in Pakistan, nor is any state failure to be expected or planned by the rest of the world, if one goes by what is in the public sphere.

Looking at Pakistan's economic and social metrics is I think a useless exercise with this aim in mind.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2015 20:11

Don't mind lekin above 2 posts are precisely why this thread is failing its promise.
In the beginning of this edition of the thread we had 2 pages lamenting this phenomenon.

We have CRS who rushes in with 'sky is falling'/next outrage genre of posts.
We have tuavlaun with his angry young man rage type posts.

I am asking you all to show some restraint.

thanks,
ramana

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Sep 2015 20:15

RajeshA wrote: Looking at Pakistan's economic and social metrics is I think a useless exercise with this aim in mind.

Yes, I agree, and said so earlier. The question is if these metrics are useless, what ones are useful and more relevant in the case of pakistan? Seems to me "paki army influence over the militia groups" and "ability of these groups to challenge the paki army" are potential metrics to determine the overall stability and as a pointer to whether new "independent republics" can form or not.

Anyway, I am not sure what angry posts I have written recently, but I guess it is time for me to shut up, if discussing pakistan's stability is verboten here. well, whatever.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Sep 2015 20:35

RamanaGaru, what I do sir. I just posted one news item about a speculative meeting between ModiJi and good Sheriff. Apologies for any transgressions from my side.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Sep 2015 20:47

Lets try this again. Metrics in both areas, social or economic are based on reporting. Now we agree that there have been no census numbers produced and the economic activity is 99% unreported. Add to that the strong motivation for manipulation on behalf of statistics creators (if they knew how to spell let alone compute the metric) and we have a perfect chaotic noise field.

Now you ask, tell me how to interpret this? Extrapolate 10 years. Well, its no more meaningful thsn the IMF or World Bank reports. I have seen those written (two decades ago!) and the writers ought to be seconded to the taliban and forced to fight. They will be more productive there.

What is the true metric? Well, in amrika they say if you want to understand how the economy is doing, look at your waitress. The worse the economy, the prettier the server. It is people sentiment. That is the metric. Keep a running count of actions (not meetings, military or civilian but actions) -- infiltration attempts, ceasefire violations, bum plasts in kabul, number of bakistanis caught in thailand improving the stsnding of the relijion, rallies and demonstrashuns by non state actors in karachi or bahawalpur.

The larger these numbers -- can categorize state vs non state industry -- the better bakistan is doing. The non state events also mean no floods or earthquakes. There is weather prediction built in.

That is the only metric -- if stomach is full, the vacuum has to burst somewhere. By this count, bakistan is properly fed for the first time in 15 years. That is a bad sign.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 14 Sep 2015 21:34

Pakistan press freedom under pressure from army

Journalists claim they are forced to self-censor criticism of the military after indirect threats from army officials

Hamid Mir knew one of the guests on his nightly television show had made a mistake the moment he blurted out the name of the country’s army chief without due deference.

“He just said ‘Raheel Sharif, Raheel Sharif’ without calling him general,” Mir says of a recent episode of his influential Capital Talk programme. “I knew immediately the words came out it would be cut.”

Even the country’s only Nobel peace prize winner, the schoolgirl activist Malala Yousafzai, was briefly silenced in early August when she said in an interview with Aaj TV that the prime minister had told her he was unable to spend more money on education because of pressure to fund military operations.

Leading journalists claim to have received indirect threats from army officials who warn them they are being targeted by terrorists or that their coverage is raising suspicions they have been compromised by the Indian intelligence service.[*]

[*] Nothing new here; even the Islamist Hamid Mir has been dubbed as an Indian Agent by the Deep State, when it suits their purpose

Last week the Lahore high court ordered Pemra, the country’s media regulator, to ban all coverage of the speeches and even photographs of the leader of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), the country’s fourth biggest political party, which is reeling from an army-led crackdown in Karachi.

Altaf Hussain, who runs the MQM from self-exile in London, was accused in court of committing treason[*] for issuing an incendiary speech in which he lambasted the army and hinted top generals were involved in corruption.

[/b]

[*] Pakistan, it appears has not learnt from history; Mujib-ul- Rahman was dubbed an Indian Agent for agitating for autonomy for the Eastern Wing ; this legitimate demand was ignored, a full blown civil war ensued and a new nation was born; hope history repeats itself

Most media companies need little encouragement to stay on the right side of the army given memories of all-out war with Geo TV in April 2014. The popular channel triggered military fury when it aired accusations that the head of the army’s intelligence wing had been behind the near fatal shooting of Mir, its star journalist.

Cable television providers were encouraged to drop Geo from their lineup while advertisers deserted the channel.

Mir said his bosses tell him to avoid controversial stories because it will “make trouble for colleagues”. “They say mysterious people call the advertisers and tell them to stop advertising with Geo and then we won’t be able to pay salaries on time,” he said.
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Even to suggest Pakistan’s army, with its long history of coups and indirect rule of the country, should stay out of politics is completely beyond the pale, said Mir.

General Bajwa said his job was simply to “share genuine information with the people”.[*][/b]

[*] He can start doing that by providing media, free hand in reporting on the internal refugee problem being created due to Army Action in KP Province and FATA.

“We are not asking the media to do this or that, or to censor anything,” he said. “People appreciate the work of the army because the reality on the ground is improving.”

Abbas Nasir, a former editor of Dawn, an English-language daily paper, said it was unlikely General Sharif would want a second term given the anger it would be likely to cause within the army. But overconfidence could yet lead to the repeat of the disastrous mistakes of the past.

“My worry is this completely one-sided praise, if it gets to the head of some military leaders, may lead us back to mis-adventurism, whether that’s a march on Islamabad or some sort of an attack on India,” he said. “If you are constantly told you are great, sooner or later you will believe it.”

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Sep 2015 21:48

Let me give my 2 paisa PKR opinion on Shreeman sahibs opinion above:

I agree with your opinion on the Economy of Bakistan, in that it is a largely service based economy with a large (if not larger) unofficial/underground economy where people live completely off the grid. i.e. it is a pre-industrialized society, as has been discussed in the Baki-dekhonomoney dhaaga.

That is all well and good. Let us look at the life expectancy of an average Baki (the one who does not explode), it follows the same trajectory of that of its sooth assian neighbors. That means medical facilities are also getting better. Population is no secret either, it has been growing steadily. The above two are facts backed by reasonably conservative statistics.

The conservative data shows that there is an imbalance shaping up. Bakistan is a pre-industrial society that is reproducing at the rate faster than what its entire economy can support. The evidence for that is ample, one place to look for that thing is to look at the number of IDPs due to floods or violence in the recent past, they should be steadily increasing.

What would happen in such societies in the medium-long term? Either the underground economy becomes industrialized and brought into the mainstream, or there would be some correction in population (famine/drought/revolution etc).

Add to this mix the rapid deforestation, landlord feudalism, illegal mining, periodic floods and periodic droughts.

There is not much time left. Something has to give. It may not happen in the next 10 years, or even 15 years. If things dont change now to support the future population load on baki resources that are already scarce and are getting increasingly scarce, there is only one trajectory that Bakistan wont take: And that is one of stability. Anything else is possible.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 14 Sep 2015 22:18

In fact devolution may be occurring. Physically the blessed ones may well be shorter than their grandfathers. Perhaps the resources quotient per Pakistani is dropping.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 14 Sep 2015 22:23

Does anyone know why Pakistan did not lay a claim on Lakshadweep islands in 1947? With a muslim majority pop. it should have logically gone to Pak but I never heard of them laying a claim to it...Their ships did pay a visit to A&N islands but the Indians were there first, remember reading somewhere.