The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2015 07:04

First, we don't know that whatever happened to the Russian plane happened at 30,000 feet. Probably not much higher, and it probably could not climb after a collision.
Secondly, there is no radar coverage AFAIK of commercial airplane routes, unless there is a transponder on, and military drones doing secret reconnaissance (spying) probably do not have their transponders on saying: "Drone KKK-666, squawking my precise coordinates so u can shoot me down!"
Third, whatever is seen by military radar operators stays secret unless their bosses want to reveal it. We saw that happening with MH-370 where the Indonesian military radar had seen several things that the civil controllers even over the busy waters of Malaysia-Vietnam did not see.

A Global Hawk or equivalent drifts along at one or two hundred mph, and can't maneuver even if the operator sees the transonic airliner coming. When they see it, it is far too late for everyone.

But I don't want to contradict certain postors :shock: . I feel like Georgie Porgie PuddingNPie, making the (never mind) :((

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 07:16

ok ok....I will back off :(

bloomberg:

Tracker FlightRadar24 releases revised data from doomed plane
New readings are more consistent with a sudden breakup

The Russian plane that crashed Saturday in Egypt slowed suddenly and then plunged to the Earth at 300 miles (483 kilometers) per hour, according to revised data of its final moments captured by flight-tracking website FlightRadar24.

The Metrojet Airbus Group SE A321 carrying 224 people fell from 31,000 feet to 26,000 feet in the final 26 seconds, according to the final transmissions from its radio transponder reporting information to the ground.

The new data is consistent with reports from Egyptian and Russian officials, who said that the plane came apart as it was flying at cruising altitude from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. It also indicates that the plane’s direction of travel was wobbling from side to side, which would occur if it was coming apart.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 07:17

if the entire tail section got ripped off (elevators and vertical fin) could the rest of it still manage controlled flight using wings alone for lift + turns ? I would imagine the wing control surfaces would still work and the so will the engines.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 07:21

Ahmed Chalabi, Iraqi exile who helped spur US invasion, dies of heart attack
Washington Post - ‎1 hour ago‎

IRBIL, Iraq - Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi exile whose rarefied Washington access and later-discredited claims about Saddam Hussein's arsenal helped spur the U.S.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2015 07:25

It's been done with an L-1011 (I think) that landed using only engines after all hydraulics were ripped out. Apparently the pilots did the **ONLY** combination of movements that could have saved them. Flight sim/ controls people were studying the case for years trying to see how to incorporate it into training. But what was the big heat flash?

The skies above the Sinai seem as full as the streets of Vienna, where one sits in the roadside cafes and says
There goes another spy!


See this 2013 report: Israeli drone with full knowledge of Egyptians, does pest-e-sha'eed:
Israeli drone kills 5 in Sinai, say Egypt officials. Missile strike hits suspected terrorists, destroys rocket launcher near border; raid shows ‘unprecedented cooperation’ with Egyptian authorities; Israel silent


But this 'tail breaking off' does dent the H&D of Putin&Co deeply, what with the New Rodina with the shiny PR about Su-35s and Smart Weapons.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2015 07:53

Sinai: Houristan redefined.
Weapons from small arms to shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles are bought and sold in clandestine auctions attended by shadowy buyers who arrive by caravan, according to regional sources. Plundered caches from Libya, Gaza-bound shipments from Iran and weaponry from a roster of bad actors exchange hands in the desert where Moses is believed to have wandered with the children of Israel for 40 years.

“The region is awash in weapons,” said Scott Stewart, the vice president for tactical analysis at the STRATFOR, a Texas-based global intelligence firm, noting everything from heavy weaponry and artillery rockets are trafficked through the area.

Much of the firepower ends up in the hands of Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis, the terrorist group that emerged out of the 2011 revolution, then was driven into the Sinai when President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi came to power two years later. One year ago, a delegation from the group met with ISIS leaders and swore their allegiance.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2015 08:01

So Russian officials are rushing to say
NahNahnah! Totally 400% Natural Causes onlee!
While Egyptians and ISIS and the Metrojet ppl are saying:
Big Flash- External Impact - Explosive burns on passengers.. no proof of spontaneous breakup..

Strange dynamics. If anyone saw a collision, it is Egyptian ground people.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 08:06

Singha wrote:Ahmed Chalabi, Iraqi exile who helped spur US invasion, dies of heart attack
Washington Post - ‎1 hour ago‎

IRBIL, Iraq - Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi exile whose rarefied Washington access and later-discredited claims about Saddam Hussein's arsenal helped spur the U.S.


Interesting news if it was an induced, fake or other kind of unnatural heart attack. He was a member of PNAC and reason for all the f'up we see in west asia.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 08:12

UlanBatori wrote:So Russian officials are rushing to say
NahNahnah! Totally 400% Natural Causes onlee!
While Egyptians and ISIS and the Metrojet ppl are saying:
Big Flash- External Impact - Explosive burns on passengers.. no proof of spontaneous breakup..

Strange dynamics. If anyone saw a collision, it is Egyptian ground people.


Source of that is Reuters. Some caution also needs to be used with AP. Not saying we should ignore but cross check with local sources too would help such as (this report from Russian news agency quoting phata abdul) Egypt’s president dismisses terror claims for Russian plane crash as "unfounded speculation" till actual investigation report comes out

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 08:17

But then you have reports such as these that make you read in between:

Egypt steps up pre-flight preparations after Russian plane crash - reports - Nov 04 2015
CAIRO, November 4. /TASS/. Egypt has introduced additional security measures at all the airports, including tightening pre-flight preparation for the aircraft, in the wake of the Russian plane crash, local media reports said on Wednesday.
The country’s national security department is revising the strategy on protecting the aircraft on the Egyptian territory, the Bawaba news portal reports. All the planes will undergo full checks carried out by the special services before ground teams are allowed to them.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 08:35

Singha wrote:if the entire tail section got ripped off (elevators and vertical fin) could the rest of it still manage controlled flight using wings alone for lift + turns ? I would imagine the wing control surfaces would still work and the so will the engines.


The aircraft would probably roll over on to it's back and dive. It would be uncontrollable.

Below is the video of an iranian il 76 in a fatal dive after it lost it's empennage in a mid air at an airshow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnsIGcZS-M


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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 09:25

UlanBatori wrote:It's been done with an L-1011 (I think) that landed using only engines after all hydraulics were ripped out. Apparently the pilots did the **ONLY** combination of movements that could have saved them. Flight sim/ controls people were studying the case for years trying to see how to incorporate it into training. But what was the big heat flash?


In the case of the L-1011, the fuselage was aerodynamically intact, a big difference from empennage totally missing, in which case the aircraft is aerodynamically unstable/unpredictable and therefore uncontrollable. There is a massive shift in the CG and no means for the pilot to counteract that. Engines only under aerodynamically stable conditions give a rudimentary control over direction, height loss and speed to a certain extent as long as pilot maintains it above the stall speed

But this 'tail breaking off' does dent the H&D of Putin&Co deeply, what with the New Rodina with the shiny PR about Su-35s and Smart Weapons.

The tail breaking off is/was a fairly common occurrence in cases of explosive damage/decompression etc. The airbus, introduced blowout panels in the tail section so that in case of an explosion in the tail section, the blowout panels could take the brunt and relieve the pressure, thus hopefully preventing the tail structure from separating. The jury is still out on the causes of the crash. The burnt bodies and the fuselage burn marks would have already told the investigators the broad cause, was it fuel related residue or explosive related.

putin is making a forceful point on the world stage and also protecting the interests of his own country, period. Nobody, but nobody, gives the tiniest shit about some uppity desert dwelling camel humping savages yelling AOA at every opportunity. Putin does not want saudi/gulf oil to flow to europe but all the others seem to want it and therein lies the crux.


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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 09:51

Apple of Discord: Golan Heights Oil to Add Fuel to the Fire of Syrian War - Oct 28, 2015

An apparent discovery of huge volumes of oil in the disputed Golan Heights brings the stakes of the Russian involvement in Syria to a new geopolitical dimension, F. William Engdahl stresses.

It is no secret anymore that the Western political establishment and its Gulf allies have facilitated the Syrian turmoil of 2011 which then evolved into a civil war in order to build competing gas pipelines through Syria to Turkey or via Lebanon to the Mediterranean.

However, it is only a part of the story, American-German historian and strategic risk consultant F. William Engdahl underscores.

"Now oil, lots of oil, comes into the play, and Israel is claiming it's theirs. The only problem is that it isn't. The oil is in the Golan Heights which Israel illegally took from Syria in the 1967 Six Day War," Engdahl pointed out in his recent article for New Eastern Outlook.

It would have remained just an Israeli or a Syrian headache if the problem was not a part of Western global energy game.

To understand the extent of a problem "take a little-known Newark, New Jersey oil company, the contested Golan Heights between Syria and Israel, add a reported major oil discovery there just as Russia's bombing campaign in Syria goes into high gear, shake it vigorously and we have a potential detonator for World War III," the strategic risk consultant stressed.

"A little known" New Jersey oil company is Genie Energy Ltd., which is no small potatoes.

Indeed, the Strategic Advisory Board of the company includes such figures as Dick Cheney, James Woolsey, Bill Richardson, Jacob Lord Rothschild, Rupert Murdock, Larry Summers and Michael Steinhardt.


Rebel fighters from the First Battalion under the Free Syrian Army take part in a military training on June 10, 2015, in the rebel-held countryside of the northern city of Aleppo

In 2013 Genie Energy "was granted exclusive oil and gas exploration rights to a 153-square mile radius in the southern part of the Golan Heights by the Netanyahu government," the expert proceeded with the narrative.
Then, on October 8, 2015 Genie Energy's Israeli subsidiary, Afek Oil & Gas announced that the company found a huge oil reservoir on the Golan Heights.

"We've found an oil stratum 350 meters thick in the southern Golan Heights. On average worldwide, strata are 20 to 30 meters thick, and this is 10 times as large as that, so we are talking about significant quantities," Afek Oil & Gas chief geologist Yuval Bartov claimed in an interview to a local broadcaster as quoted by Engdahl.

"The Golan Heights, however, are illegally occupied by Israel," Engdahl reminded, adding that the UN has repeatedly stipulated that Israel has no rights for the illegally occupied territories of the Syrian Golan Heights.

In light of this, the Syrian government and even Syrian statehood are regarded by US businessmen and Israeli politicians as a stumbling block in the way of their joint oil projects in the region. In contrast, the potential balkanization and dissolution of Syria would play directly into their hands.


"The Netanyahu government [is now] more determined than ever to sow chaos and disorder in Damascus and use that to de facto create an Israeli irreversible occupation of Golan and its oil," the expert stressed.

The Western grand game in the Middle East has engaged a number of regional and international actors, including the United States and its NATO and Gulf allies.

"Now an apparent discovery of huge volumes of oil by a New Jersey oil company whose board includes Iraq war architect, Dick Cheney, neo-con ex-CIA head James Woolsey, and Jacob Lord Rothschild… brings the stakes of the Russian intervention on behalf of Syria's Assad against ISIS [ISIL], al-Qaeda and other CIA-backed 'moderate terrorists' to a new geopolitical dimension," Engdahl underscored.

The stakes are high. However, the situation on the ground shows that the US-backed coup in Ukraine and the Syrian turmoil orchestrated by Washington in order to dissolve Russia's network of allies and mar Moscow's international image have proved ineffective.

Ironically, the outcome is contrary to what was expected by Washington: Russia is gaining ground in the Middle Eastern region and on international arena, the expert noted.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 10:25

(reposting with additions)
Singha wrote:Ahmed Chalabi, Iraqi exile who helped spur US invasion, dies of heart attack
Washington Post - ‎1 hour ago‎

IRBIL, Iraq - Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi exile whose rarefied Washington access and later-discredited claims about Saddam Hussein's arsenal helped spur the U.S.


Interesting news if it was an induced, fake or other kind of unnatural heart attack. He was a member of PNAC and reason for all the f'up we see in west asia.

-added later-
PNAC ceased to function in 2006. it was replaced by new stink tank Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI)

from FPI wiki:
"What North Korea teaches us is that once a rogue regime has a nuclear weapon, we have not figured out how to reliably contain it, how to protect Americans, or how to protect our allies."[16] FPI has also called for the U.S. Department of Defense to cancel a $572 million contract with Rosoboronexport, Russia's government-owned arms exporter.[17]

FPI proposed an active U.S. role in Syria. In 2012, Slate Magazine wrote, "The most forward-looking part of the FPI's conference came when the French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy chatted with Sen. John McCain (a PNAC signatory and contributing writer). They quickly agreed that America needed to intervene in Syria, setting up a partial no-fly zone and arming rebels."[18] FPI advocated using Patriot missile-defense batteries, with Executive Director Griffin noting, "The United States and our allies could use the Patriot missile-defence batteries now deployed in southern Turkey to establish a credible threat against Assad's air power over parts of Aleppo and Idlib provinces [in northern Syria].

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 10:40

if it was a tail-loss like the IL76..would spin and hit ground relatively intact, the debris would not be scattered over a wide area like 4kmx4km which is case now.

a tail loss does not look like it would break the plane apart.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 11:11

Singha wrote:if it was a tail-loss like the IL76..would spin and hit ground relatively intact, the debris would not be scattered over a wide area like 4kmx4km which is case now.

a tail loss does not look like it would break the plane apart.


The IL is a military aircraft, its air frame is specced to different standards . The empennage was lost at a relatively low height in comparison to the airbus so the breakup was just beginning when it hit the ground. The unfortunate IL video does show some evidence of sundry objects departing the wreckage on it's way down.

No air frame can sustain such disruptive forces as a wildly out of control spinning fuselage falling from a great height. Seats, baggage, extremities of the air frame as well as the air frame itself, will rip away and break up as all stress limits would have been exceeded.

There is nothing like a gentle out of control spin from 30+ thousand feet after loss of empennage. The engines probably would have been ripped from their mountings too and maybe catastrophic failure of one of them was the cause of the initial damage followed by wing tank rupture and fire.

edited as a following post pointed out this data as wrong.

The possibility of incomplete data from the russian airbus recorders must also be taken into account because the recorders would have been in the tail section and that may have been among the sections first ripped away causing the recorders to stop functioning.
Last edited by chetak on 04 Nov 2015 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Philip » 04 Nov 2015 11:54

Syria possesses untapped oil and gas reserves larger than that of Kuwait.The Norwegians found Othis out a few years ago.One of the reasons why the Saudis want regime change in Syria,as Syrian O&G would be far easier shipped off to Europe,sending Saudi exports to Europe into a tailspin.
Just as it was with the invasion of Iraq,"it's all about oil".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 20051.html
Russian plane crash: What we know about flight 9268 – and what we don't
Speculation has raged among everyone from politicians to pilots about the cause of the tragedy

Simon Calder Travel Correspondent

Early on Saturday, 224 people died when the Airbus A321 that was flying them home from Sharm el Sheikh to St Petersburg crashed in the Sinai Desert. Ever since, speculation has raged among everyone from politicians to pilots about the cause of the tragedy.

Flight 9268 took off on from the Egyptian resort shortly before 4am GMT on 31 October and climbed normally to 30,000 feet. Within half-an-hour, without broadcasting a Mayday, the aircraft crashed in the desert. Beyond that, much of what has been said is conjecture rather than fact.

Flight recorders on Sinai crash jet reveal 'unusual sounds'

Q| What do we know about the airline?

Following the break-up of the Soviet Union, dozens of small carriers started up - including Kogalymavia, the operator of flight 9268 under the Metrojet brand. Most of the 20 crashes of Russian passenger jets in the past two decades have involved such airlines.

Q| And the plane?

The Airbus A321 was built in 1997, which makes it relatively old. The design is a stretched version of the Airbus A320, which is a workhorse for airlines around the world. It has a better accident record than its nearest rival, the Boeing 737, and is well regarded by pilots.
Russian passenger plane crashes in Egypt

Q| What could have caused the crash?

In many air crashes, there is often more than just a single cause – and it may well prove to be the case for flight 9268. The investigators will be studying everything from the health records (mental and physical) of the pilots to the commands they made. But in the days since the crash, theories have coalesced around three broad theses: catastrophic mechanical failure, a bomb on board or a missile attack.'

Q| What evidence is there for a mechanical failure?

Some have speculated that the aircraft's pressure bulkhead, part of the system that seals the cabin from the much lower outside pressure, may have failed. The aircraft operator insists the A321 was properly maintained. However, freely available records show that the aircraft lost on Saturday had encountered structural damage while flying for Middle East Airlines in 2001. The tail struck the runway while landing at Cairo.

Other crashes have been attributed to inadequate repairs - in particular Japan’s deadliest accident, a Boeing 747 that crashed in 1985, killing 520. In the past 40 years, though, maintenance standards have improved dramatically. particularly in terms of structural integrity. But the history of aviation safety is littered with cases in which unforeseen combinations of circumstances have caused disaster.

Q| If it was a bomb, who planted it – and were they on the plane?

There are plenty of armed groups with motives for attacking a Russian passenger jet, from Chechen separatists to so-called Islamic State. If it was a bomb, it could conceivably have followed the method used in the Lockerbie bombing in 1988, in which a bomb was concealed in passenger baggage but the perpetrator did not fly. Current security measures should not make that possible. Other scenarios include an “inside job”, with an employee at the involved in planting a device, or a suicide bomber who succeeded in evading security.

Q| Were there warnings in place about overflying the area in case of a missile attack?

Yes, because of the perceived risk of an attack using shoulder-launched missiles - known as man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) - by rebel forces fighting in the Sinai. Pilots were warned to stay above 25,000 feet to avoid “dedicated anti-aviation weaponry,” and airlines were “strongly advised” to take the risk into account when planning routes.

Q| So why did the Russian plane fly over the region?

Because the most direct track from Sharm el Sheikh to St Petersburg passes directly over the middle of the Sinai. The captain planned to overfly the area at an altitude well above the height perceived as potentially dangerous. Even after the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine last year, it is still routine for commercial flights to traverse conflict zones if there is no evidence of advanced weaponry capable of reaching six miles high.

Q| A Russian-operated, French-designed, German-built, American-engined, Irish-owned aircraft flying from Egypt. So who’s in charge of the investigation?

With everyone from the Kremlin to US security officials pronouncing on the crash, the nervous passenger would be forgiven for thinking the accident investigation is a mess. But international rules make it quite clear that Egypt’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Central Directorate, part of the Ministry of Civil Aviation, is the body responsible for the investigation. Representatives of the other interested parties are also involved, which could be a possible source of some of the leaks so far. The only official source is the Egyptian investigation team.

Q| How good are they – and can we believe them?

The basis of incident investigation is to improve flight safety. That means getting the facts and being totally open. Like other major countries, Egypt has some excellent aviation safety officials who have done good work on past crashes. Some, though, voice the fear that the investigators will face political pressure from Cairo, and possibly Moscow, to reach “convenient” conclusions. Western pilots have pointed to the investigation into Egyptair flight 990, which crashed into the Atlantic between New York and Cairo in 1999. The US National Transportation Safety Board found that the probably cause was a suicidal pilot, but in a parallel investigation the Egyptians insisted it was mechanical failure.

Q| When will we know more?

It is likely that an interim report, revealing some of the facts contained in the “black boxes” and among the wreckage, will be published in the next few weeks – though with such intense pressure it may be that something appears sooner, or conversely that investigators delay publication to make certain their report is watertight.

A final report is likely to take much longer.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby member_29151 » 04 Nov 2015 11:55

Satya_anveshi wrote:India can do the following (at this point):

- we welcome both parties adopting diplomacy as main lever in finding solution and will be happy to facilitate agenda, meetings, arbitration, settlement services

- we provide our services in protecting (and reconstructing) world heritage sites

- we provide our services in construction and management of rehabilitation camps for the affected people particularly women and children. If asked earnestly we will thrown in our spiritual enlightenment services for free which we believe our strongest offering for the human kind.

- we provide our services to stem refugee crisis and provide temporary relief camps till the war comes to close and all refugees are rehabilitated in respective countries.

- and lastly we will be happy to whoop some terrorists ass if affected countries come to us with good value proposition



+1^
A humanitarian efforts for local people will be great as a good will for the countries . specially medical aid rebuilding their homes.plus I suggest IA Can hold cleared position after Syrian army clears the Area.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby member_29228 » 04 Nov 2015 12:30

chetak wrote:

An israeli cargo 747 went down like this on takeoff from a european airport when turbine blades from a catastrophically failing engine sliced through the cockpit killing the pilots.
.


I don't think the above is possible...

The 4 engines of the air craft are below the cockpit plane ( of surface) and the are at least 20 to 25 feet behind on the wing and under too, imagine the shaft of the turbine to be line and parallel to the main fuselage , now relative to engine position the cockpit is always ahead so even if the centrifugal forces throw the blades lose from housing it would be requires that the blades be thrown forward by angle of 45degrees, this is only possible if the engine mounts gave away and dangled at clockwise or anti clock wise by 35 degrees for the tangential or otherwise displacement and intercept the cockpit

Even in the movie flight of the Phoenix ( staring Denis Quid, the propeller of Fail child packet comes lose and cuts the body / fuselage of the a/c behind the wing...

Sorry for the OT my apologies

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 12:54

the engine cowl is designed and tested to contain such broken blades - see in a natgeo video...though none can claim its 100% guaranteed I suppose.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 12:59

:lol:
chechen warlord ramzan kadyrov releases clips of his own james bond type movie
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailer.html

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby srin » 04 Nov 2015 13:16

There was an Aircrash investigation episode on mysterious plunge-straightdown style of aircrashes because the rudder got stuck. So quite possible for some control failure that can result in structural breakup and igniting of fuel ("flash" seen by sats).

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby manjgu » 04 Nov 2015 13:34

the engines are screwed to the planes/wings in such a way to make them fall below and behind the body. this is a well know design feature with engines.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 14:04

Palmer wrote:
chetak wrote:

An israeli cargo 747 went down like this on takeoff from a european airport when turbine blades from a catastrophically failing engine sliced through the cockpit killing the pilots.
.


I don't think the above is possible...

The 4 engines of the air craft are below the cockpit plane ( of surface) and the are at least 20 to 25 feet behind on the wing and under too, imagine the shaft of the turbine to be line and parallel to the main fuselage , now relative to engine position the cockpit is always ahead so even if the centrifugal forces throw the blades lose from housing it would be requires that the blades be thrown forward by angle of 45degrees, this is only possible if the engine mounts gave away and dangled at clockwise or anti clock wise by 35 degrees for the tangential or otherwise displacement and intercept the cockpit

Even in the movie flight of the Phoenix ( staring Denis Quid, the propeller of Fail child packet comes lose and cuts the body / fuselage of the a/c behind the wing...

Sorry for the OT my apologies


you are absolutely right. :oops:

my apologies for posting duff gen.

I seem to have been misled by a joke played on me by some israeli friends some years ago.

This is what happened on that flight per wiki

Flight 1862 was scheduled to depart at 5:30 pm, but was delayed until 6:20 pm. It departed from runway 01L on a northerly heading at 6:22 pm. Once airborne, the aircraft turned to the right on its departure route. Soon after the turn, at 6:27 pm, above the Gooimeer, a lake near Amsterdam, a sharp bang was heard while the aircraft was climbing through 1950 meters (6500 feet). The bang was the result of the two fuse pins attaching engine three to the right wing failing due to microscopic fatigue cracks.[4][page needed] The engine separated from the right wing of the aircraft, shot forward, damaged the wing flaps, then fell back and struck engine number four, tearing it from the wing. The two engines fell away from the aircraft, also ripping out a 9-meter (30-foot) stretch of the wing's leading edge. The loud noise attracted the attention of some pleasure boaters on Gooimeer. The boaters notified the Netherlands Coastguard of two objects they had seen falling from the sky. One boater, a police officer, said he initially thought the two falling objects were parachutists, but as they fell closer he could see they were both plane engines.[7]
A map of Amsterdam showing the aircraft's flight path (marked in green)

The captain made a mayday call to air traffic control (ATC) and indicated that he wanted to return to Schiphol. At 6:28:45 pm, the captain reported: "El Al 1862, lost number three and number four engine, number three and number four engine." ATC and the flight crew did not yet grasp the severity of the situation. Although the flight crew knew they had lost power from the engines, they did not see that the engines had completely broken off and that the wing had been damaged.[b] The outboard engine on the wing of a 747 is visible from the cockpit only with difficulty and the inboard engine on the wing is not visible at all. Given the choices that the captain and crew made following the loss of engine power, the Dutch parliamentary inquiry commission that later studied the crash concluded that the crew did not know that both engines had broken away from the right wing.

On the night of the crash, the landing runway in use at Schiphol was runway 06. The crew requested runway 27 - Schiphol's longest - for an emergency landing,[4](pp41–42) even though that meant landing with a 21-knot quartering tailwind.[c]

The aircraft was still too high and close in to land when it circled back to the airport. It was forced to continue circling Amsterdam until it could reduce altitude to that required for a final approach to landing. During the second circle, the wing flaps were extended. The inboard trailing edge flaps extended, since they were powered by the number one hydraulic system, which was still functioning, but the outboard trailing edge flaps did not extend, because they were powered by the number four hydraulic system, which failed when the number four engine broke away from the wing. That partial flap condition meant that the aircraft would have a higher pitch attitude than normal as it slowed down. The leading edge flaps extended on the left wing, but not on the right wing, because of the extensive damage sustained when the engines separated, which had also severely disrupted the air flow over the right wing. That differential configuration caused the left wing to generate significantly more lift than the damaged right wing, especially when the pitch attitude increased as the airspeed decreased. The increased lift on the left side increased the tendency to roll further to the right, both because the right outboard aileron was inoperative and because the thrust of the left engines was increased in an attempt to reduce the aircraft's very high sink rate. As the aircraft slowed, the ability of the remaining controls to counteract the right roll diminished. The crew finally lost all ability to prevent the aircraft from rolling to the right. The roll reached 90 degrees just before the impact with the apartment houses.[4](pp39–40)

At 6:35:25 pm, the first officer radioed to ATC: "Going down, 1862, going down, going down, copied, going down." In the background, the captain was heard instructing the first officer in Hebrew to raise the flaps and lower the landing gear.

and

Causes

In the event of excessive loads on the Boeing 747 engines or engine pylons, the fuse pins holding the engine nacelle to the wing are designed to fracture cleanly, allowing the engine to fall away from the aircraft without damaging the wing or wing fuel tank. Airliners are generally designed to remain airworthy in the event of an engine failure, so that they can be landed safely. Damage to a wing or wing fuel tank can have disastrous consequences. The Netherlands Aviation Safety Board found, however, that the fuse pins had not failed properly, but instead had suffered metal fatigue prior to overload failure.[7] The Safety Board pieced together a probable sequence of events for the loss of engine three:

Gradual failure by fatigue and then overload failure of the inboard mid-spar fuse pin at the inboard thin-walled location.
Overload failure of the outer lug of the inboard mid-spar pylon fitting.
Overload failure of the outboard mid-spar fuse pin at the outboard thin-walled and fatigue-cracked location.
Overload failure of the outboard mid-spar fuse pin at the inboard thin-walled location.[4](p46)

This sequence of consecutive failures caused the inboard engine and pylon to break free. By sheer chance, its trajectory after breaking off the wing caused it to slam into the outboard engine and rip it and its pylon off the wing as well, and serious damage was also inflicted on the leading edge of the right wing.[7] Both loss of hydraulic power and damage to the right wing prevented correct operation of the flaps that the crew later tried to extend in flight.

Research indicated that the aircraft had only managed to maintain level flight at first due to its high air speed (280 knots). The damage to the right wing, resulting in reduced lift, had made it much more difficult to keep it level. At 280 knots (520 km/h), there was nevertheless sufficient lift on the right wing to keep the aircraft aloft. Once it had to reduce speed for landing, however, it was doomed; there was too little lift on the right wing to enable stable flight, and the aircraft banked sharply to the right without any chance of recovery.

The official probable causes were determined to be:[4](p46)

The design and certification of the Boeing-747 pylon was found to be inadequate to provide the required level of safety. Furthermore the system to ensure structural integrity by inspection failed. This ultimately caused – probably initiated by fatigue in the inboard midspar fuse-pin – the no. 3 pylon and engine to separate from the wing in such a way that the no. 4 pylon and engine were torn off, part of the leading edge of the wing was damaged and the use of several systems was lost or limited.

This subsequently left the flight crew with very limited control of the airplane. Because of the marginal controllability a safe landing became highly improbable, if not virtually impossible.

chetak
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 14:08

Singha wrote:the engine cowl is designed and tested to contain such broken blades - see in a natgeo video...though none can claim its 100% guaranteed I suppose.


most of the times, they don't contain the damage as advertised in glossy brochures. The turbine blades are of a much more tougher material.


chetak
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 04 Nov 2015 14:43




Lisa ji,

Thanks.

all engines undergo such tests.

Sometimes, in actual fact and in actual flight the results are somewhat different than as advertised in shiny brochures and flashy company videos. our un esteemed, un lamented and erstwhile colonial masters have been lying again.

However, investigations reveal that it is all Modi's fault and he has kept quiet so far, thus showing a high disregard for minority passenger lives and intolerance for passenger safety. Rolls Royce is in the process of deciding which awards they are going to return to the Govt of India in consultation with our eminent and resident paper plane expert pappu.


But per wiki there is a different story, distinctly at variance with the Rolls Royce brochures. They also did not paint one blade of this engine in rainbow colors.

many apologies for pulling your leg onlee. :)

Image
Damage to the wing of QF32 after the RR engine's catastrophic failure


Qantas Flight 32
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Qantas Flight 32 Qantas a380 vh-oqa takeoff heathrow arp.jpg
VH-OQA, the aircraft involved in the accident (May 2009 photo, taking off from London Heathrow Airport)
Incident summary
Date 4 November 2010
Summary Uncontained engine failure, due to defective engine manufacturing
Site Batam Island, Indonesia
1°04′N 104°01′ECoordinates: 1°04′N 104°01′E
Passengers 440
Crew 29
Injuries (non-fatal) 0
Fatalities 0
Survivors 469 (all)
Aircraft type Airbus A380-842
Aircraft name Nancy Bird Walton
Operator Qantas
Registration VH-OQA
Flight origin London Heathrow Airport
Stopover Singapore Changi Airport
Destination Sydney Airport

Qantas Flight 32 was a Qantas scheduled passenger flight which suffered an uncontained engine failure on 4 November 2010 and made an emergency landing at Singapore Changi Airport. The failure was the first of its kind for the Airbus A380, the world's largest passenger aircraft. It marked the first aviation occurrence involving an Airbus A380. On inspection it was found that a turbine disc in the aircraft's No. 2 Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine (on the port side nearest the fuselage) had disintegrated. The aircraft had also suffered damage to the nacelle, wing, fuel system, landing gear, flight controls, the controls for engine No. 1 and an undetected fire in the left inner wing fuel tank that eventually self-extinguished.[1] The failure was determined to have been caused by the breaking of a stub oil pipe which had been manufactured improperly.

The aircraft was registered in Australia as VH-OQA, and named Nancy Bird Walton, Qantas' first A380. The failure occurred over Batam Island, Indonesia, on Flight 32 from London Heathrow Airport to Sydney Airport, four minutes after taking off from Changi for the second leg of the flight. After holding to determine aircraft status, the aircraft returned to Changi nearly two hours after take-off. There were no injuries to the passengers, crew or people on the ground; debris from the accident fell onto Batam.[2]

At the time of the accident 39 A380s were operating with five airlines — Air France, Emirates, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines (SIA) and Qantas. The accident led to the temporary grounding of the rest of the five-plane Qantas A380 fleet. It also led to groundings, inspections and engine replacements on some other Rolls-Royce powered A380s in service with Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines, but not in the A380 fleets of Air France or Emirates, which were powered by Engine Alliance engines.

Contents

1 Aircraft
2 Incident
3 Pilot and crew
4 Cause
5 Reaction
5.1 Stock markets
5.2 Grounding of aircraft and replacement of engines
5.3 Reactions regarding significance
5.4 Operational history
6 Compensation and repairs
6.1 Airworthiness directive
7 References
7.1 Further reading
8 External links

Aircraft

The aircraft involved was an Airbus A380-842,[3] registration number VH-OQA, serial number 014.[1][4] Having entered service on 18 September 2008, the aircraft was the first A380 delivered to Qantas and had four Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines;[5] it was named Nancy Bird-Walton in honour of an Australian aviation pioneer.[6] After completing repairs in Singapore, estimated at $139 million, the aircraft returned to Sydney, New South Wales on 22 April 2012.[6]
Incident

The incident, at 10:01 a.m. Singapore Standard Time (02:01 UTC), was caused by an uncontained failure of the port inboard (No. 2) engine, while en route over Batam Island, Indonesia.[1][7]

Shrapnel from the exploding engine punctured part of the wing and damaged the fuel system causing leaks and a fuel tank fire,[8][9] disabled one hydraulic system and the anti-lock braking system, caused No. 1 and No. 4 engines to go into a "degraded" mode,[10] damaged landing flaps and the controls for the outer left No. 1 engine.[11]

The crew, after finding the plane controllable, decided to fly a racetrack holding pattern close to Changi airport while assessing the status of the aircraft. It took 50 minutes to complete this initial assessment. The First Officer (FO) and Supervising Check Captain (SCC) then input the plane's status to the landing distance performance application (LDPA) for a landing 50 tonnes over maximum landing weight at Changi.[10] Based on these inputs the LDPA could not calculate a landing distance. After discussion the crew elected to remove inputs related to a wet runway, in the knowledge that the runway was dry. The LDPA then returned the information that the landing was feasible with 100 metres of runway remaining.[12] The flight then returned to Singapore Changi Airport, landing safely after the crew extended the landing gear by a gravity drop emergency extension system,[8][12] at 11:45 a.m. Singapore time.[13][14] As a result of the aircraft landing 35 knots faster than normal,[10] four tires were blown.[3][15]
Qantas A380 cockpit. During the emergency, pilots were alerted by 54 error messages generated by aircraft systems.

Upon landing, the crew were unable to shut down the No. 1 engine, which had to be doused by emergency crews three hours after landing until flameout was achieved.[12][16] The pilots considered whether to evacuate the plane immediately after landing as fuel was leaking from the left wing onto the brakes, which were extremely hot from maximum braking. The SCC pilot, David Evans, noted in an interview, "We’ve got a situation where there is fuel, hot brakes and an engine that we can’t shut down. And really the safest place was on board the aircraft until such time as things changed. So we had the cabin crew with an alert phase the whole time through ready to evacuate, open doors, inflate slides at any moment. As time went by, that danger abated and, thankfully, we were lucky enough to get everybody off very calmly and very methodically through one set of stairs."[10] The plane was on battery power and had to contend with only one VHF radio to coordinate emergency procedure with the local fire crew.[17]

There were no injuries reported among the 440 passengers and 29 crew on board the plane.[18] Debris also fell on a school and houses, causing structural damage,[19] and on a car.[20]
Pilot and crew

The Pilot In Command of the aircraft, Captain Richard Champion de Crespigny, has been credited in the media as "having guided a heavily damaged double-decker jet to the safety of Singapore Airport and averting what could have been a catastrophe".[21] He has 35 years of flying experience and was the first Qantas "line" pilot to fly the Airbus A380 as the captain.[22] He was also commended for debriefing the passengers in the passenger terminal after the flight, disclosing details of the flight and offering care for his passengers.[23]

On 18 November 2010 Richard Woodward, a vice president of the Australian and International Pilots Association reported that there were five pilots on the cockpit of this flight. In addition to the normal crew of Captain, First and Second Officer, there were two additional check captains: the captain who was being trained as a Check Captain (CC) and the Supervising Check Captain, (SCC) who was training the CC.[12] Captain de Crespigny concentrated on flying and managing the aircraft and monitoring the (100 ECAM) checklists being sifted through by the First Officer. The supernumerary pilots monitored all actions and assisted where necessary.[24]
Cause
Engine nacelle of Qantas A380 open for inspection, showing Rolls-Royce Trent 900 components

The investigation by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) indicated that "fatigue cracking" in a stub pipe within the engine resulted in oil leakage followed by an oil fire in the engine.[25] The fire led to the release of the Intermediate Pressure Turbine (IPT) disc. It also said the issue is specific to the Trent 900.[26]

Rolls-Royce determined that the direct cause of the oil fire and resulting engine failure was a misaligned counter bore within a stub oil pipe leading to a fatigue fracture.[27] The ATSB's preliminary investigation report confirmed Rolls-Royce's findings.[12]

Airbus determined that the IPT disc released three different high energy fragments, resulting in structural and systems damage. It also concluded that segregated wiring routes were cut by two out of the three individual pieces of disc debris and as a result, engine No. 1 could not be shut down after landing.[28]

On 10 November 2010, the European Aviation Safety Agency issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive, ordering airlines using the Trent 900 engine to conduct frequent and stringent tests, including extended ground idle runs, Low Pressure Turbine (LPT) stage one blade and case drain inspections and High Pressure/Intermediate Pressure (HP/IP) structure air buffer cavity and oil service tube inspections.[29] However, on 22 November, the EASA eased its inspection guidelines, citing progress in the investigation. It dropped requirements for extended ground idle runs and requirements for repetitive inspections of the LPT stage one blades and case drain.[30] On 2 December 2010, the ATSB ordered a one-off inspection of the "relevant" Trent 900 engines within two flight cycles.[25]

On 3 December 2010, the ATSB issued a preliminary report which contained a key finding of a manufacturing flaw: An area of fatigue cracking was found within a stub pipe that feeds oil to the engine HP/IP bearing structure.[12] Bearing lubricating oil leaked from that crack, causing the subsequent engine fire and failure of the IP turbine disc. The fatigue fracture was a result of the misalignment of that stub pipe, during the counter-boring process. That inaccurate alignment resulted in one side of the same stub pipe becoming too thin to resist fatigue fracturing.[12][31] This "could lead to an elevated risk of fatigue crack initiation and growth, oil leakage and potential catastrophic engine failure from a resulting oil fire," according to the agency.[31]

The findings were determined to be a "critical safety issue," and the ATSB recommended immediate inspections of in-service Trent 900 engines.[31] On 8 December the ATSB reported that 45 Trent 900 engines had been inspected, and 3 of these engines had failed inspection and had been removed from service.[32] On 18 May 2011, the ATSB released an interim factual report[33] which states that 53 Trent 900 engines were removed from service — 11 due to out-of-tolerance oil-feed stub pipes and 42 due to lack of measurement records relating to the oil-feed stub pipe.
Reaction
Stock markets

Immediately after the accident, shares in the engine's manufacturer, Rolls-Royce Holdings, fell 5.5% to 618.5 pence on the London Stock Exchange, their sharpest fall in 18 months.[34] This was the lowest price since mid September 2010. The fall in the share price was directly attributed to this accident.[34] Shares in the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS), which owns Airbus, also fell.[35]

By mid-morning on 8 November 2010, Rolls-Royce shares had fallen by more than 10% since the incident on the previous Thursday.[36]
Grounding of aircraft and replacement of engines

Both Qantas[14][37] and SIA,[38] which uses the same Rolls-Royce engine in its A380 aircraft, temporarily grounded their A380 fleets after the accident and performed further inspections. Singapore Airlines resumed operations the following day.[38]

Investigation of all four other operational Qantas A380s revealed concerns with two engines. Those engines were to be replaced, after which operation was expected to be resumed. The problems with one of these engines "could have potentially led to a repeat of Thursday's incident on QF32".[16] On 8 November 2010 the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, stated that the A380 fleet would remain grounded because new issues in the engines appeared,[39] including oil leaks within the engines, something Joyce said was "beyond normal tolerances".[40] Singapore Airlines, which initially stated it "did not find any issues of concern"[41] after inspecting the engines of its A380s, announced on 10 November it planned to replace three engines on three separate planes, grounding the aircraft in question until the issues were resolved.[42] The airline allowed the planes to return to Singapore after discovery of the anomaly.[42] On 10 November, Lufthansa announced the replacement of an engine on its first A380 which it termed "precautionary".[43] On 3 December, Qantas announced that a total of 16 Trent 900 engines needed to have repairs made or be replaced entirely; at the time of the announcement, the airline said five had already been replaced.[44]
Wikinews has related news: Qantas says A380 aircraft are safe to fly after 'serious' incident

On 23 November, Qantas announced that it would begin to partially return its fleet of A380s to service, beginning on 27 November.[45] Initially two of its six A380s were taken into use while the rest of the fleet stayed grounded pending inspections and engine changes.[46] The two aircraft entered service on the Sydney–Singapore–London route, where the engines use less than maximum thrust.[45] Qantas initially said it planned to refrain from using the aircraft on routes between Los Angeles and Australia, the longest routes globally served by the A380, where highest engine performance was required on take-off.[45] However, after talks with the manufacturers and regulators indicated the aircraft was safe to use, Qantas announced it would resume using the A380 on the Los Angeles routes on 11 January 2011.[47] By the end of January, Qantas operated all but one of its A380s, but did not have a timeframe for returning VH-OQA, the aircraft damaged in the accident, to service.
Reactions regarding significance

Tom Ballantyne, a writer on Orient Aviation Magazine, described the accident as "certainly the most serious incident that the A380 has experienced since it entered operations", and concerns have been voiced that this accident may be due to a "major problem", rather than being maintenance-related.[35] Qantas CEO Alan Joyce stated on 5 November that Qantas considered the likely cause "some kind of material failure or a design issue".[48]

The damage, described in The Sydney Morning Herald as "potentially life-threatening and extremely rare", caused aircraft engineer Peter Marosszeky, from the University of New South Wales to state that "I rarely ever see a failure like this on any engine", while Paul Cousins, the federal president of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association stated that "fewer than 5% of engine failures involved debris leaving the casing of the engine", as was the case in this accident.[49]

Carey Edwards described the QF32 flight as "one of the finest examples of airmanship in the history of aviation".[50]
Operational history

This Airbus A380 accident followed two previous incidents involving Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines. In September 2009, an engine malfunctioned on a Singapore Airlines flight from Paris to Singapore, and a Tokyo-Frankfurt Lufthansa flight in August 2010 had engine trouble that resulted in one engine being shut down due to low oil pressure. No such incidents have been reported for the Airbus A380s that are powered by Engine Alliance engines (made by General Electric Aircraft Engines and Pratt & Whitney as a joint venture) and operated by Emirates and Air France.[51]

An airworthiness directive was issued by the European Aviation Safety Agency on 4 August 2010 that required inspection of certain aspects of the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine.[48]
Compensation and repairs

On 22 June 2011 Qantas announced that it had agreed to compensation from Rolls-Royce of "95m Australian dollars" (£62 million/US$100 million).[52] VH-OQA was repaired at an estimated cost of A$139 million (~US$145m). The aircraft has four new engines, a repaired left wing (including 6 km of wiring replaced), and had extensive on-ground testing and two test flights. It returned to Australia on 22 April, and was scheduled to return to service on 28 April 2012.[53] The repairs added 94 kilograms (207 lb) to the weight of the aircraft.[54]
Airworthiness directive

During repairs following the incident, cracks were discovered in the wings of the aircraft. As a result of the discovery, an Airworthiness Directive was issued affecting twenty A380-841, A380-842 and A380-861 aircraft that had accumulated over 1,300 hours flight. Those aircraft with under 1,800 hours flight were to be inspected within 6 weeks or 84 flights (whichever occurred first), whilst those with more than 1,800 hours flight were to be examined within four days or 14 flights.[55][56] On 8 February 2012, the checks were extended to cover all 68 A380 aircraft in operation.[57]

UlanBatori
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2015 16:57

Some points:
1. if it was a tail-loss: Then the tail would have hit the ground a few miles from the rest, I think. The engines would still be driving the rest forward at least for a few seconds and the forward fuselage and wings still are low-drag, streamlined objects to keep going a couple of miles further, whereas the tail section flops down like a brick, decelerated sharply by the open-fuselage parts. Did it?
2. Uncontained engine failure: There was a case of an DC-9 or B727 where the blades came off and sliced the passenger(s) sitting next to it. Nice thought next time u r sitting next to an aft-mounted engine. Go to sleep b4 the engine starts.
3. Even the vaunted F-35 had UCBF, which is what caused the famous Fire. (OK, I don't want to bring Comrade u-no-Hu here.. :shock: :eek: )

habal
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby habal » 04 Nov 2015 17:30

blast in cargo hold would also result in tail loss no ? What about the possibility of an IED w/timer connected to body frame via use of strong magnets. Somebody in ground staff can be complicit of this.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 17:49

The plane's tail was found about 5 kilometers (3 miles) from the rest of the plane wreckage, the Russian state broadcaster Russia 24 reported.

Singha
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 17:51

Image

Singha
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 17:54

Image

Satya_anveshi
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 19:24

breaking news:Russian cargo-plane crashes in South Sudan; at least 25 dead - Nov 04, 2015

Manish_P
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Manish_P » 04 Nov 2015 19:38

Not Russian

Antonov An-12 (built in Ukraine around 1971) which belonged to the Tajik company Asia Airways, and was manned by an Armenian crew.

Satya_anveshi
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Nov 2015 20:32

About A321....not official word but..
Analysis of Black Box Recorders Says Engine Explosion Caused A321 Crash Nov 04, 2015

An engine explosion has been identified as a main lead in the investigation into the cause of the crash of a Russian passenger plane in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, following preliminary analysis of the aircraft's black box recorders, local media reported on Wednesday.

member_29228
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby member_29228 » 04 Nov 2015 20:43

Additives to improve performance of the engines? fuel injector cleaners? :(

Aditya_V
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Nov 2015 20:49

dont Infra red missiles explode near the engine? or the black box data rules that out?

habal
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby habal » 04 Nov 2015 20:56

Veterans Today CT site speculates on Saudi, Israeli, Jordanian, Egyptian hand but overlooks the biggest hand of central institute of a$$80les, who can coordinate all these small hands.


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/03 ... -probable/

Austin
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 21:59

UK govt: ‘Explosive device’ may have downed Russian passenger jet over Sinai
Published time: 4 Nov, 2015 17:23
Edited time: 4 Nov, 2015 17:26

https://www.rt.com/news/320762-uk-explo ... ice-sinai/

The British prime minister’s office says that it believes the Russian passenger jet that crashed over Egypt Sinai on Saturday might have been brought down by an “explosive device.”

All flights from Egypt’s Sharm el-Sheikh resort to the UK have been delayed as a precautionary measure, the Downing Street said in a statement on Wednesday.

Lalmohan
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Lalmohan » 04 Nov 2015 23:43

Mid air collision with flock of Egyptian bar headed geese on their migration to the salt marshes of Gondwanaland


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