The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

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SaiK
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby SaiK » 25 Nov 2015 16:09

The Turkish government’s official explanation for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber was that it had violated Turkish airspace. But Ankara’s timeline of the events is already raising questions.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... z3sVDOMSPE
but our pakies must be celebrating for f16 kill tag.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Austin » 25 Nov 2015 16:17

shiv wrote:
Austin wrote:Yes to survive Patriot 104D SAM Explosive around 90 Kg it really needs to have good structural strength and design redundancy so that it does not get pulverised , I remember one Patriot by mistake hit an F-16 and it simply got pulverised on the air

Shortly before Vayu Shakti or Iron fist an IAF Su 30 had a bomb explode under its wing. I think both pilots ejected - amazing that the plane did not disintegrate.


Yes IIRC that was 100 Kg dumb bomb that exploded but compare to say a SAM Warhead which are very specialised and are directional charged so all the explosive power/fragment are directed towards aircraft for maximum impact , so goes for AAM but with small warhead.

Not sure which missile they fired at Su-24 , AMRAAM or AIM-9 series

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby nirav » 25 Nov 2015 16:23

The Turks said that one Su24 turned away post the warning. This could be an attempt to cover up the fact that they fired at both but missed the second one.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby habal » 25 Nov 2015 16:23

try to understand this gentle forumers.

a Turkish terrorist citizen killed the Russian Pilot, he was of course illegally inside Syria practicing terrorism. Merdogan is actually sinking within his merd...

https://twitter.com/KekHamo/status/669297501179150338

even the 'one terror incident a week' NATO found it hard to defend this. Imagine that !

after scraping bottom of the barrel, he could only come up with Obama support. :rotfl:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/24/polit ... e-meeting/

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby deejay » 25 Nov 2015 16:41

S 400 in Syria:

https://twitter.com/Conflicts

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts now3 hours ago
MAP: Estimated range of the S-400 missile system that #Russia said it would deploy at Hmeymim #Syria - @kurojaro

Image

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2015 16:44

Sony Kapoor ‏@SonyKapoor 23h23 hours ago
Which country backs which islamic group in the middle east… A Must See Interactive Chart http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... asternmesh
Image
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 16:47

amazing that the plane did not disintegrate.

Hi-tech Adulterated Bum, obviously. They put rice flour and mice schidt instead of stones/metal filings inside the bomb, instead of putting stones and metal filings in rice. :rotfl:
Last edited by UlanBatori on 25 Nov 2015 16:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby nirav » 25 Nov 2015 16:47

The image is wrong. None of the arrows point to ISIS. Them are not Djinns.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby NRao » 25 Nov 2015 16:54

NYT reporting Emirate sent 300 mercenaries from Columbia into Yemen.

The secret ingredients of a major war in place.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby shiv » 25 Nov 2015 16:54

Austin wrote:
Yes IIRC that was 100 Kg dumb bomb that exploded but compare to say a SAM Warhead which are very specialised and are directional charged so all the explosive power/fragment are directed towards aircraft for maximum impact , so goes for AAM but with small warhead.

Not sure which missile they fired at Su-24 , AMRAAM or AIM-9 series

I read it as AMRAAM. But even 50 kg of explosive should bring down a building and a plane not disintegrating is a surprise. AAMs with fragmenting warheads are designed to punch multiple holes even if it is a near miss. I thing smaller missiles like AIM-9 or R-73 do with just 8-9 kg explosive (need to ask Googal unkal)

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 16:55

deleted
Last edited by UlanBatori on 25 Nov 2015 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2015 16:55

^^ that has been reported some time back. they are being paid $1000 per week more than colombian salary and instant UAE citizenship if they complete a 3 month stint. this is apparently quite the regular package there from earlier.
helps to dilute shia voting numbers also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgdAbTtwEc

heavy bombardment of the mountains ... looks like sticks of bombs from backfires. from the happy way AoA is being chanted this is not the border area but the frontline of SAA advance from the south or west.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 16:59

NATO however will have other sneaky terror strikes up their sleeve.
NATO checklist:

Civilian Plane crash: Check
military plane crash: Check
helicopter crash: Check
western city attack: Check
cyber attack: ??
biological weapon: ??
chemical weapon: ??
JDAM: ??

NATO being NATO, they have to keep trying something every week. So take a guess.


Request to BRFee Exparts:

Can u pls construct a Poll/Pool on Web+ Social Media, titled, say,
GUESS NATOBAMA'S NEXT TERROR STUNT
and post all these choices + write-ins??? pliss? :mrgreen:

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2015 17:07

somewhere near baiji/tikrit iraq .... ISIS send a huge VBIED against a checkpost and kills everyone there

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f85_1448444189

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2015 17:16

M. Cruickshank CN ‏@MJ_Cruickshank Oct 31
According to @flightradar24, Russian plane was flying at 28,000ft when it was lost. This is out of MANPADS range.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airpl ... j/#7d986d3
27 retweets 7 likes

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 17:20

Turkey not losing sleep over Russian anger: Al Jazeera
Alexander Nekrassov
Alexander Nekrassov is a former Kremlin and government adviser.
"Lesser incidents have resulted in world wars breaking out in the past," one Russian official joked gloomily in a conversation with me when I asked him what he thought about the downing of the Russian Su-24 bomber by the Turkish air force on Tuesday. The gloom in Moscow has more to do with the very limited options it has in how to respond to the dramatic events over Syria - or, as the Turkish government insists, over its territory - when the Su-24 bomber, which, on the final phase of its mission, was brought down by two Turkish F-16 fighters. The reality is that relations between Russia and Turkey are way too important and cannot be endangered despite such a dramatic development.

President Vladimir Putin's tough language after his meeting in Sochi with Jordan's King Abdullah II probably didn't make anyone lose any sleep in Ankara. Putin accused Turkey of back-stabbing Russia and of complicity with terrorists, comments which were coupled with Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov cancelling his preplanned visit to Turkey.

Public anger
I would even go so far as predicting that despite the public anger in Russia over the downing of the Su-24, millions of Russian tourists will probably continue to visit Turkey for all-inclusive holidays. And Russian gas will be delivered, as before, to Turkey, in full contractual volumes.
But from the Russian point of view, it is difficult to figure out what was going through the minds of the Turkish military brass when they instructed their pilots to push the launch button upon suspecting that a Russian incursion was taking place. Such decisions are taken at the highest level and blaming local military commanders or the "existing procedure" would be foolish and naive.
Even if the Russian plane violated Turkish airspace - and note, I say "even if", as it was crystal clear that it did not pose any danger to Turkish territory, as it was on a mission to bomb ISIL fighters on the ground in northern Syria.
Incidentally, Turkish planes have been known to violate Syrian airspace regularly, and no one made a fuss over it in Damascus, where the government is taking a pragmatic stance on these incursions.
Apart from Russia, all members of the US-led coalition that has been bombing ISIL in Syria for the past year were technically violating Syrian airspace practically daily. Although with the latest vote at the UN Security Council on the joint battle with ISIL, this has now been rendered legitimate.
Furthermore, as the thinking goes in Moscow, the risks of bringing down that plane overweighed any possible benefits, if there were any at all, for Turkey. Privately, Russian officials surmise that NATO must have known about the orders to shoot down the Russian planes.
Any fears that Russia may retaliate militarily against Turkey for the loss of its plane have been allayed by the Kremlin. Its official spokesman said that no military response will be taken by Russia in response to the incident.
That was probably a very timely statement, as it came hours after the downing of the plane, when emotions were running high and the possibility of a kneejerk reaction was very real; although initial reports that one pilot was dead and a Russian soldier was killed during the search operation did push some hotheads in Moscow to start calling for revenge.
Usually, the first 24 hours after any crisis - no Russian/Soviet plane has been downed by a NATO country since the 1950s - are the crucial ones.
The possibility of a costly mistake is huge. Both sides may be tempted to score political points and appeal to domestic sentiments to be seen as tough on the opponents. So the good thing is that the danger period has passed without any drastic developments that could have been regretted later.
But there is also cause for optimism, if anything positive can be extracted at a time when human lives are lost and bad feelings prevail. It is possible that this incident may finally push politicians to realise that coordination of the battle with ISIL between the US-led coalition and Russia, Iran - and, possibly, the Syrian government, as well - is essential if more tragedies in the skies and on the ground are to be avoided.
The Russians have been asking for such coordination since they started their bombing campaign in September in Syria, but Western governments have been reluctant to respond positively, accusing Russia of trying to bolster President Bashar al-Assad's position by bombing not just ISIL, but the "moderate opposition", as well - whatever "moderate" means these days.
The hope now is that the downing of the Russian plane may help resolve this issue and finally introduce a proper exchange of information and intelligence between all sides. Especially as UK Prime Minister David Cameron's government is itching to join the coalition of the willing and send British planes to bomb ISIL in Syria and not just in Iraq, making the skies an even more crowded place. Why on earth Cameron wants to do that is anyone's guess.
Out of tragedy, something positive may emerge. A long shot, I know, but in this dangerous and confusing situation, that is the best we can hope for.
Alexander Nekrassov is a former Kremlin and government adviser.
The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy {of supporting Islamic terrorists.}

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2015 17:31

M. Cruickshank CN ‏@MJ_Cruickshank Oct 31
According to @flightradar24, Russian plane was flying at 28,000ft when it was lost. This is out of MANPADS range.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airpl ... j/#7d986d3
27 retweets 7 likes

chetak
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2015 17:38

RIP.


Laura Wells ‏@wellsla Nov 24
MT @agitpapa
Dead #Russian pilot is allegedly Major Rumyantsev Sergei Aleksandrovich from Chelyabinsk, Russia
Image
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 17:40

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

11:00
Turkish PM: attacks on Turkmens cannot be carried out on pretext of hitting Isil

The Turkish prime minister has warned Russia that attacks on the Turkmen minority could not be justified using the pretext of fighting Isil, writes Raziye Akkoc.

Ahmet Davutoglu was speaking today and said: "No one can legitimise attacks on Turkmens in Syria using the pretext of fighting Daesh," using the Arabic acronym for the extremist group.

He added that he personally gave the orders to the Turkish general chief of staff about shooting down jets which intruded into its airspace.

In his same speech, he criticised the way Turkey was described as a dictatorship but when France acted in a high-handed manner, it was not given the same criticisms.

"After Paris attacks, France prohibited protests. If Turkey had done so, people would say there's ‘dictatorship’ in Turkey."

But here Mr Davutoglu is making wild claims. France had just seen 130 of its citizens killed when it declared a state of emergency while in Turkey, people can be taken to court for "insulting the president" or sharing images critical of Mr Erdogan.

10:41
Russia to continue launching airstrikes

Despite yesterday's furore, Russia has vowed this morning that it will continue to launch airstrikes along the Turkish border, writes Louisa Loveluck.

"We would like for the terrorists and militants to keep further away from the Turkish border, but unfortunately they tend to be situated on the Syrian territory close to the Turkish border," said Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. "(Russia's) operations will continue without doubt."

Moscow's initial military intervention was aimed at shoring up regime defences in Syria's far north-west - where the Russian plane was shot down yesterday - and the battle there remains crucial for the Assad regime's survival.

09:54
Russia sending hi-tech air defence system

Sergei Shoigu has announced the deployment of Russia's most advanced anti-aircraft missile - the S-400 - to Syria in the wake of the Tuesday's shoot down, writes Roland Oliphant.

The S-400 first came into service in 2007. It is the next generation of the S-300, a particularly effective air defence missile system that Russia periodically offers to sell to Iran as a way of alarming Israel and keeping the Iranians sweet.

With a maximum range of 400 kilometres (about 250 miles), an S400 system based at Russia's Khmeimim airbase near Latakia would easily cover the area where Turkish jets shot down a Russian SU-24 on Tuesday, and would even potentially threaten Turkish aircraft on the other side of the border.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Philip » 25 Nov 2015 18:07

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323252-turke ... lane-su24/
'Turkey good example of West’s duplicity towards ISIS'
John Wight
John Wight has written for newspapers and websites across the world, including the Independent, Morning Star, Huffington Post, Counterpunch, London Progressive Journal, and Foreign Policy Journal. He is also a regular commentator on RT and BBC Radio.
Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 12:20

In shooting down a Russian jet operating over Syria, Turkey’s nefarious role in the Syrian conflict has intensified. It also presents a damning indictment of the West's seriousness in confronting extremism and terrorism.

In the aftermath of the spate of ISIS atrocities – first the downing of the Russian passenger plane, Metrojet Flight 7K9268 over the Sinai at the end of October, killing all 224 on board, followed by the killing of 43 civilians in Beirut in a suicide bomb attack, and most recently the slaughter of 130 people in Paris in multiple suicide bombings and shootings – we now know who is serious about confronting this medieval death cult and who is not.

More, we are starting to uncover those who speak the language of anti-terrorism while in practice working to facilitate and support it.

Turkey is a key culprit in this regard. A murky relationship has long existed between Ankara, ISIS, al Nusra, and other jihadi groups operating in Syria. Indeed, on the most basic level, without their ability to pass back and forth across the Turkish border at will, those groups could not have operated as easily and effectively as they had until Russia intervened.

However, according to a report by David L Phillips of Columbia University, Turkey’s support for extremist groups operating in Syria, including ISIS has been even more extensive than previously thought. Drawing on a wide variety of sources, Phillips reveals that the Turkish government, a member of NATO and a key Western ally, has been involved in helping ISIS with recruitment, training, and has provided it with intelligence and safe havens and sanctuary. Most recently it has been exposed as a major customer for stolen Syrian oil, supplied by the terrorist group.

Perhaps the most damning evidence contained in the report when it comes to Turkey’s role, is in relation to its actions and inaction when it came to the siege of the Kurdish town of Kobani on the Syrian-Turkish border in September and October of 2014.

As Phillips reveals: “Anwar Moslem, Mayor of Kobani, said on September 19, 2014: ‘Based on the intelligence we got two days before the breakout of the current war, trains full of forces and ammunition, which were passing by north of Kobani, had an-hour-and-ten-to-twenty-minute-long stops in these villages: Salib Qaran, Gire Sor, Moshrefat Ezzo. There is evidence, witnesses, and videos about this. Why is ISIS strong only in Kobani's east? Why is it not strong either in its south or west? Since these trains stopped in villages located in the east of Kobani, we guess they had brought ammunition and additional force for the ISIS.’ In the second article on September 30, 2014, a CHP delegation visited Kobani, where locals claimed that everything from the clothes ISIS militants wear to their guns comes from Turkey.”

The world will never forget how, during the siege of Kobani, as its Kurdish defenders mounted a heroic defense of the town against thousands of ISIS fighters, armed with tanks and artillery, Turkish tanks and troops sat just over the border and did nothing to intervene.

Likewise, no one will forget that earlier this year Turkey carried out airstrikes against those same Kurdish volunteers of the PKK/YPG within Syria, while depicting them as terrorists. Turkey’s oppression of its Kurdish minority going back many years is of course a matter of record.

President Erdogan and his government has undeniably been a key in the destabilization of Syria, doing its utmost to foment regime change. As with the Saudis and other Gulf monarchies, before Russia’s intervention Turkey was hovering over Syria as a vulture hovers over a dying animal, waiting for it to perish before descending to feed on its carcass.

The fact that Turkey remains a key Western ally exposes the moral high ground from which Washington and its allies have lectured Russia over its role in Syria as nothing more than a dung-heap of hypocrisy.

If the West was serious about confronting terrorism, was serious about returning stability to a region it has helped to set on fire, it would reconsider its close ties to both Turkey and the Saudis, whose governments between them have been wading in the river of blood they have helped shed these past four years. Turkey’s claim that the Russian military aircraft it shot down had encroached on its airspace and ignored multiple warnings should be treated with the credibility it deserves, especially when we recall that prior to Russia’s participation in the conflict, Turkey’s violation of Syrian airspace and the Syrian border was happening on a regular basis.

With Russia’s presence in Syria has put paid to Erdogan’s objective of toppling the Syrian government, we begin to discern its efforts to enlist the support of NATO in putting pressure on Russia to desist. It also helps to explain why the West continues to refuse President Putin’s call for cooperation and unity in the effort to eradicate ISIS and other extremist groups massacring and slaughtering their way across the country, with the intention of turning it into a mass grave.

In the wake of the recent spate of ISIS atrocities unleashed against Russian, Lebanese, and French civilians, the grounds for refusing to enter such an alliance are as indefensible as Turkey’s role in the conflict and its most recent action in shooting down a Russian aircraft.


As the man said: “Those who sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind.”

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 18:17

Villages liberated from NATObama terrorists
The head of the Syrian Observatory, Rami Abdul Rahman, said Russian warplanes and helicopter gunships played a major role in opening the way for troops to advance in the desert near Homs. He said about 50 militants were killed in days of fighting in Mheen, Hawareen and surrounding areas.

Homs-based opposition activist Bebars Telawi said government forces were backed by members of Lebanon's Hezbollah militant group.

Syrian troops have captured dozens of villages in northern, western and central Syria since the Russian airstrikes began.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby vijaykarthik » 25 Nov 2015 18:18

Satya_anveshi wrote:Shiv ji,
IS never attacked the West and GCC (this includes US, UK,Israel, EU, KSA, Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Jordon). These are the veritable sponsors of the IS/ISIS/ISIL.


France attack? Jordan attacks? KSA attacks [In shia regions?], I think they hit UAE too. Or someplace. I cant recall exactly now. They have attacked. Its not as if they haven't. But yes, they surely have their gulf and west sponsors.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2015 18:20

nirav wrote:The image is wrong. None of the arrows point to ISIS. Them are not Djinns.


islamic state looks like djinns to you??

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Lalmohan » 25 Nov 2015 18:22

economist posits that daesh switched to the far-enemy war as a response to the loss of kobane and officially 2000 dead (including many emirs), unofficial estimates range to 4000 dead

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby nirav » 25 Nov 2015 18:23

chetak wrote:
nirav wrote:The image is wrong. None of the arrows point to ISIS. Them are not Djinns.


islamic state looks like djinns to you??


Err, the pic says which country supports who. And None of the arrows are pointing to ISIS.

Which is why I said the image is incorrect. ISIS are not Djinns to operate without anyones help.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Nov 2015 18:39

Lalmohan wrote:economist posits that daesh switched to the far-enemy war as a response to the loss of kobane and officially 2000 dead (including many emirs), unofficial estimates range to 4000 dead


A while back NATOBAMA was claiming over 10K ISIS dead. May have been referring to the lice in their hair.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2015 18:47

the mighty USAF did send *one* b1 bomber to support the YPG in kobane.

would be a miracle if more than 500 ISIS ever got killed in that town.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby habal » 25 Nov 2015 18:52

turkish embassy moscow
Image

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby deejay » 25 Nov 2015 18:55

ISIS nos have been quoted upwards of 70000 at some place though the Pentagon maintains 20000 ISIS fighters still available after killing 20000 ISIS fighters.

Kobane did see a large body count of ISIS fighters mostly shot dead by the YPG snipers.

Here is an interesting article on ISIS body count from the US perspective. Even here the US confusion on the subject stands out.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/us-isis-fighters-killed/410599/
1. US mil officer says 20,000 ISIS members killed, but overall force remains 20-30k, same as when bombings began.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /73840116/


USA TODAY
ISIL death toll at 20,000, but 'stalemate' continues
By USA TODAY @USATODAY
Despite the number of casualties, ISIL continues to draw new fighters to Iraq and Syria.


So, if you believe that, then ISIS has replaced anywhere between 67% and 100% of its ranks since US-led bombing campaign began last year.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby deejay » 25 Nov 2015 19:01

Fears of multiple explosions in Ankara as reported by RT:

https://www.rt.com/news/323428-miltiple-explosions-ankara-police/

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby habal » 25 Nov 2015 19:02

taylieli ‏@taylieli
6#Russia-n jets+2 choppers continue to bomb Jabal Tourkman area,rif #latakia, near #Turkish border for its 8th hour.

Reports that at least 4 #Russia-n cruise missiles have hit the tourkman mountains.#Latakia #Turkey

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Philip » 25 Nov 2015 19:02

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -us-russia
The shooting down of a Russian jet tangles the diplomatic web still further
Yavuz Baydar

The plane’s downing shows any solution to the Syrian conflict needs the US and Russia to work together, closely overseeing their allies


‘In the heat of the moment, both Ankara and Moscow’s immediate reactions to the incident have been highly emotional.’ Photograph: Haberturk TV Channel/EPA

Wednesday 25 November 2015

No matter which side is responsible, the downing of the Russian plane over the southernmost part of the Turkish border will only complicate further the already complex picture of the conflict in Syria. And, regardless of what shape this crisis will take, it increases the pressure on the two main “playmakers” who define the rules of engagement, be that militarily or diplomatically: the US and Russia.

Will the downing of a Russian fighter jet wreck Syria peace hopes?
Mary Dejevsky

Tuesday’s incident is not entirely without precedent. Already at the earliest stages of the conflict, in June 2012, a Turkish reconnaissance aircraft was downed over the Mediterranean off Latakia. There were suspicions that the Phantom fighter was shot down by a missile fired from a Russian base at the shore. Russia strongly denied the accusations, and the case was eventually closed.

But, even if the background to the latest downing is the same, the circumstances are different this time. The latest incident has come as Russian airforce intensifies its military activity at north-eastern Syria, targeting what it claims are terrorist units affiliated with al-Nusra. Russian media recently reported that many settlements in the area, mainly Turkmen, were al-Nusra nests, involved in fierce anti-Assad activities.

Tensions between Ankara and Moscow have been high in the past month, as clashes and bombing have moved closer to the border areas. A few violations came as a harbinger of escalation in what, at this stage, looks like a “turf war”, in which Russia is decidedly engaged in clearing a large area along the coast, dedicated to the Assad regime.

Turkey, whose Syria strategy has been looking increasingly vague and reactive recently, may now have stronger arguments to call for a no-fly zone along its entire border area. Until the downing, the US, Russia and the EU had countered persistent Turkish demands by saying that, in the context of enhanced war against jihadists in Syria, there already was a de facto no-fly zone. Turkey may have gained new arguments now, but given the delicacy of the talks and growing visibility of Russia, France and even the US, they are likely to fall on deaf ears.

In the heat of the moment, both Ankara and Moscow’s immediate reactions to the incident have been highly emotional. Hours after the downing, Serdar Kılıç, Turkish ambassador in Washington DC, tweeted that “nobody should test our patience”, using a phrase, coined and used excessively by Turkish prime minister Ahmet Davutoğlu. Putin described the incident as “a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists”.

Vladimir Putin: Turkey’s downing of Russian jet ‘a stab in the back’

Both sides have reasons to be nervous. Putin knows that he is facing the blowback for Russia’s assertive, active involvement in Syria and that there may be more to come. Yet he also knows that since Turkey is strongly energy dependent to Russia, his ruling AKP has its hands tied in bilateral relations. There are also some not so well concealed signs in Russia’s statements that Moscow has some circumstantial evidence indicating Turkish-Islamic State oil trade cooperation in its hands.

UK newspapers call on Vladimir Putin to keep calm over downed jet
Roy Greenslade

The nervousness displayed by the AKP administration, in Ankara, has a lot to do with Turkey’s Syria policy being in ever-growing disarray, and its failure to set priorities to help resolve the conflict. As the Syrian quagmire deepened, old anti-Kurdish fixations in Ankara came to the surface, and clashed with the priorities of its allies, centred on Isis. Ankara’s blocking moves against the only combat force on ground, the PKK-YPG axis, has impeded the fight against jihadists, and its constant redrawing of red-lines (Kurds, Turkmens, no-fly zone, Assad gone etc) may have been frustrating the White House, but does not seem to affect Moscow. Recently, Moscow’s rapprochement with the Syrian Kurds, the PYD, only added to the huge complexity of the situation.

In the recent G20 summit, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan was once more keen to underline that “terror has no religion and there should be no our terrorist and your terrorist”. By indiscriminately bombing Turkmen villages, Putin, as it were, returns this message to the sender.

So, the tension now rises between one determined and one undecided, conflicted player – one lucid on strategy, the other lacking it. If any, the lesson to be drawn from this showdown is this: any solution of the Syrian conflict will be based on a precondition that the US and Russia put aside their differences, agree in principle on the future of the region, build a joint intelligence gathering and coordinated battle scheme against jihadists, and demand utter clarity of the positions of their myopic, egocentric allies. Unless they do so, more complications, and risks beyond turf wars will be knocking at the door.


PS:What did many of us predict? Turkey will now face massive internal and external trouble with a capital "T".The Sultan will be running to his gold plated bomb shelter in his brand new palace-of-palaces,a nice juicy target by the way,If accurate ,these bombings show that there are many ways of skinning the Sultan and his tribe alive!
PPS:RT.
Russian pilot.NO warning given.
The navigator of the Russian Su-24 shot down by a Turkish fighter jet on Tuesday insists that his plane did not cross into Turkey’s airspace, and says he was given no visual or radio warning before being fired at.

Satya_anveshi
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Satya_anveshi » 25 Nov 2015 19:18

Rescued Su-24 Co-Pilot Rules Out Turkish Space Violation 'Even for Second'
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151125/ ... ation.html

"There were no warnings. Not via the radio, not visually. There was no contact whatsoever. That's why we were keeping our combat course as usual. You have to understand what the cruising speed of a bomber is compared to an F-16. If they wanted to want us, they could have shown themselves by heading on a parallel course. But there was nothing. And the rocket hit our tail completely unexpectedly. We didn't even see it in time to take evasive maneuvres."


Now the rescued pilot is saying he has debt to repay :twisted:

In the parachute video, we can see after they saw bullets were fired upon, they chose to go opposite sides at that spur of the moment.

That decision saved one life.
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 25 Nov 2015 19:23, edited 1 time in total.

ldev
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby ldev » 25 Nov 2015 19:22

Meanwhile Russia keeps the pressure up on the ISIS oil trade into Turkey. This is today - the result of Russian plane attacks at the Azaz border crossing between Syria and Turkey.


deejay
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby deejay » 25 Nov 2015 19:23

Some more trucks hit, this time near Turkey border:

https://twitter.com/AEJKhalil/status/669512314228469760


AEJ خليل ้้้้้็็็็
‏@AEJKhalil
#Russia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting a Trucks Garage in #Aazaz moments ago
#Aleppo #Syria Nov 25



Oops, posted above.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby shaun » 25 Nov 2015 19:26

^^^ probably no MAWS, being an IR,
hit RWR will be of no use.

Philip
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Philip » 25 Nov 2015 19:26

That's why the inadvertent statement by a US gen. about an "AWACS usually above them" makes sense of the incident.The Turkish F-16s were guided by the AWACS to intercept the SU-24s with their radars switched off,leaving the Russian pilots completely unaware that they were being tracked,were taken completely by surprise,giving them no chance to take evasive action. From the video clips that show fire streaming from the engine nozzles,it does appear that they were shot down by heat-seeking missiles,further reinforcing the case that the entire incident was pre-planned. Had the missiles radar seekers and not IR,the aircraft would've been automatically warned by RWR and evasive action taken.

Had the Turks story been true,about the many warnings,etc.,the Russian pilots would've definitely taken evasive action and reported back to base that they were being targeted by Turkish fighters. They were shot down in cold blood and even after ejecting,again shot down in cold blood by the jihadi scum supported by the Turks.This is a clear war crime and the Turks and their Sultan will suffer grievously for it. The best way for Russia to take revenge is to destabilize Turkey,as they have many enemies like the Kurds,etc..
Last edited by Philip on 25 Nov 2015 19:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby JTull » 25 Nov 2015 19:32

+1

Gyan
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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Gyan » 25 Nov 2015 19:33

It is possible that it was joint USA and Turkey operation

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Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2015 19:35

the turks have access to a nato E3 fleet and but also have atleast 2 of 4 ordered 737 wedgetail. one of these might have been the sensor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_AEW%26C
I kind of doubt NATO E3 would agree to this wanton shooting unless approved by their chain of command stretching back to GHQ in Brussels in peacetime, in wartime the joint area commander would be in charge. there is no such NATO joint deployment in turkey. but US incirlik based AWACS could have slyly done this too,

--
the first Peace Eagle aircraft, named Kuzey (meaning North) was formally accepted into Turkish Air Force inventory on 21 February 2014.[40][41][42][43] The remaining three aircraft will be named Güney (South), Doğu (East) and Batı (West).[43]

The six-year delay was a result of Boeing experiencing difficulties while developing some features required by the Turkish Air Force


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