Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21089
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Prem » 24 Jun 2016 06:08

TIMES NOW ‏@TimesNow 10m10 minutes ago
JUST IN: #NSG top body heads of delegation meet begins in #Seoul: Reports

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23758
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2016 06:26

No other NSG member had advanced the argument that giving admission to India would upset the strategic balance (whatever that means) in the Indian Subcontinent and that would fuel Pakistan to produce more weapons etc. No other country had linked India's admission to that of Pakistan (even if Turkey demanded Pakistan be also considered for admission), EXCEPT China.

In c. 2008, China was new to NSG and it was in the process of developing trade with India. It did not want to be seen leading the 'opposition' pack and so it hid behind the curtain but even then its hand was visible and finally even exposed. This time, it had no inhibitions at all in leading from the front. It made its unreasonable and illogical opposition very clear from the very beginning. Pakistan even crowed two months back that China had promised it that it would stop India from becoming a member.

Again, China stands exposed and in a corner. Today, China has no ally except Pakistan. I would consider this pathetic position of China as a victory for Pakistani diplomacy. Usually, China had been more reasonable in the end even when it made some noises whether it was in 1965 or 1971 or Kargil etc. Even when it opposed India's entry into ASEAN, it did not press it beyond a point. In the UNSC expnasion framework agreement, it tried to stealthily undermine India. But, in the NSG issue, it has burnt its bridges for the very first time. There must be consequences for it.

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1126
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby rahulm » 24 Jun 2016 06:37

Money talks, all the rest is irrelevant. Such behaviour should not be tolerated. And to think we invite Chinese for rail tenders, use their rail tech among others. NaMo has publicly led and invested himself in this outcome. I hope he remembers this behaviour with Chankiyan fervour and focus with the memory of an elephant. NZ too.

Australia came around a few years ago. NZ are a US munna so can't understand their behaviour. What's Brazil smoking - exactly what gains do they expect to make by antagonising India?

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3612
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Kashi » 24 Jun 2016 06:41

ShauryaT wrote:What made modern PRC was the will of the CPC to marshall its resources and fight the Kuomintang and the Japanese together and then go on to take Tibet, Xinjiang and resist the Americans in Korea. With great costs to itself but creating the underpinnings for great power that many dread today.


In fact CPC held back its forces while Kuomintang and Japanese slugged it out. Mao is on record saying that Japanese rule over China was a significant factor in his forces gaining control of the mainland.

Xinjiang was first annexed under KMT, then taken over by Soviets; Stalin handed it over to PRC after the commies took over.

Korea, they used human wave attacks and most of those sacrificed were Nationalists and Japanese that had been taken prisoners of war. Of course it was "bloody" effective.

Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8216
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Gus » 24 Jun 2016 06:41

Is it all over already or is negotiations still going on?

feel like slapping mount road mao next time he puts out some nonsense

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1126
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby rahulm » 24 Jun 2016 06:48

As consensus eludes, NSG to meet today

If the membership issue is not taken up or discussed in the plenary, it would not mean an end to India’s hopes, however, and the issue may be taken up at another special session later this year.

India has been keen to complete the process during US President Barack Obama’s tenure, given that he had made a commitment to help India with the NSG during his visit in 2010.

When asked about the consequences of a loss in Seoul, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj had compared the NSG campaign to running a Lok Sabha election campaign. “You close your ears to the possibility of defeat,” he said.

uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1848
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby uddu » 24 Jun 2016 06:53

If Democratic India is clubbed with a Jihadi Pakistan, there is more apt comparison between Communist China and Communist North Korea with no rights for their people to speak.

China is nothing but a bigger North Korea with capitalism allowed to use Chinese laborers and politically communist for the dictators to rule over the same oppressed people.

Also Noko being into nuclear proliferation, Communist China is their big daddy.

malushahi
BRFite
Posts: 351
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
Location: South of Berkshires

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 24 Jun 2016 07:23

ANI Verified account
‏@ANI_news

Differences on admitting non-NPT members, #NSG will not take up India's case as of now: Chinese chief negotiator #Seoul

ANI Verified account
‏@ANI_news

China does not back Pakistan or India to be admitted in #NSG till they follow rules laid down by the members:Chinese chief negotiator Wang


ANI Verified account
‏@ANI_news

NSG consensus in favour of a Non Proliferation Treaty,we hope India joins the NPT first: Ambassador Wang Qun(China)


is the chinese chief negotiator talking for the entire nsg?

malushahi
BRFite
Posts: 351
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
Location: South of Berkshires

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 24 Jun 2016 07:27

ANI ‏@ANI_news 3m3 minutes ago

Signing NPT first is one of 5 criteria,its not set by China but by group as a whole:Ambassador Wang Qun(China) #NSG

Guddu
BRFite
Posts: 913
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 06:22

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Guddu » 24 Jun 2016 07:30

I think it will come down to the wire. Chinese have to make a show as iron birather. I am confident India gets in, now that 47/48 support India.

malushahi
BRFite
Posts: 351
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
Location: South of Berkshires

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 24 Jun 2016 07:30

Geeta Mohan Verified account
‏@Geeta_Mohan

#IndiaAtNSG
Chinese chief negotiator Wang to @suhasinih: India's membership has never been an agenda item on #NSG


the PRiC in all-out mode. wonder what the indian reaction/response will be to the interview being given by the chinese rep.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7221
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby disha » 24 Jun 2016 07:49

Chinese chief negotiator is Wanging around on his own. His statement was before the meeting., basically they are setting the lines of negotiation at NSG.

member_23370
BRFite
Posts: 1103
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby member_23370 » 24 Jun 2016 07:52

China will cave ..they always do under pressure or we will soon see a Taiwanese embassy in New Delhi soon.

malushahi
BRFite
Posts: 351
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
Location: South of Berkshires

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 24 Jun 2016 07:55

i would have expected some proactive footwork from the bharatiya team in anticipating the deft PRiC move from "supporting porki candidature" to "PRiC does not back bharat or porki to be admitted" over the course of 8 hours.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7221
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby disha » 24 Jun 2016 07:56

Bheeshma wrote:China will cave ..they always do under pressure or we will soon see a Taiwanese embassy in New Delhi soon.


+72 to that and break Bakis should be implemented in full force.

malushahi
BRFite
Posts: 351
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 03:08
Location: South of Berkshires

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 24 Jun 2016 07:57

Bheeshma wrote:China will cave ..they always do under pressure or we will soon see a Taiwanese embassy in New Delhi soon.


on the contrary this is the first time they will "cave" whenever that happens. to them "loss of face" is a cultural anathema.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3612
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Kashi » 24 Jun 2016 08:10

Bheeshma wrote:China will cave ..they always do under pressure or we will soon see a Taiwanese embassy in New Delhi soon.


Sounds like a plan, we could even offer to build one for them on the rubble of the Paki on-a-high commission. That would kill two birds with one stone.

Alas, Taiwanese are likely to high tail even at the suggestion of opening an embassy in India.

Screambowl
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Screambowl » 24 Jun 2016 08:12

Looks like it was a misinformation that Brazil and south Africa voted against India. Others please confirm ...

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... sjTOI.html
Contrary to initial reports, Brazil and South Africa were strong backers of India’s membership.

Screambowl
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Screambowl » 24 Jun 2016 08:37

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 841834.cms
India's bid for NSG: Member countries talking about alternate plan if China remains unmoved

NEW DELHI: When China says India's bid for membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group is not on the plenary agenda, it isn't entirely inaccurate because that's exactly the consensus Beijing is trying to block. As a result, NSG members are even informally talking about an alternate plan if China remains unmoved.

uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1848
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby uddu » 24 Jun 2016 08:46

Throwing China out of NSG for being the master who proliferated nukes to Noko and Pakistan.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3612
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Kashi » 24 Jun 2016 08:47

Shastri wrote:NEW DELHI: When China says India's bid for membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group is not on the plenary agenda, it isn't entirely inaccurate because that's exactly the consensus Beijing is trying to block. As a result, NSG members are even informally talking about an alternate plan if China remains unmoved.


Looks like Ramana ji's Nuclear Commerce Group (NCG) may become a reality after all, sooner rather than later.

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby member_27581 » 24 Jun 2016 09:37

Till 9 headlines today was mentioning PRiC was not alone in opposing us. It had Austria, NZ, Turkey and even Bra-zeal. I think there would be more than the Taiwanese embassy in India

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 182
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Mahesh_R » 24 Jun 2016 09:49

SSridhar wrote:There must be consequences for it.


SSji and other guru's...

Can we list out the areas where we can hit the dragon ?
I am not sure if it would have been wise if Modiji hinted these consequences in the 1-1 discussion with Xi?
Will it make them fall in line or more irritated to go all out against us?

Can guru's throw more light on it please..

Screambowl
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Screambowl » 24 Jun 2016 09:52

Mahesh_R wrote:
SSridhar wrote:There must be consequences for it.


SSji and other guru's...

Can we list out the areas where we can hit the dragon ?
I am not sure if it would have been wise if Modiji hinted these consequences in the 1-1 discussion with Xi?
Will it make them fall in line or more irritated to go all out against us?

Can guru's throw more light on it please..


India can Veto in MTCR. China has been seeking entry into MTCR since 2004 but refused. Now India is a member of MTCR.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23758
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2016 09:59

China to insulate ties with India from any NSG fallout - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
China on Thursday sought to insulate bilateral ties with India from the headwinds arising out of the debate on New Delhi’s entry into the NSG. Answering a question, China’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said a decision on the inclusion of new members to the NSG was still pending. “…a decision shall be made through thorough discussion within the group.” “We do not believe that it is an issue concerning the bilateral relationship between China and India”.

‘Pranab’s visit successful’

Ms. Hua praised the “more and more significant role” the two countries were playing in international affairs. The leadership of the two countries, were steadily advancing the relationship. “The bilateral relationship… continues to maintain a sound momentum of growth, thanks to the mutual visits by the leaders of the two countries.” She said President Pranab Mukherjee had recently paid a “very successful” visit to China.

Analysts say that during the visit, Mr. Mukherjee made a strong case for India’s membership of the NSG. “We believe that the series of exchange of visits will deepen our strategic consensus, strategic mutual trust and chart the course of the future development of the bilateral relationship,” she said. In tune with the signals from China that India’s membership was not imminent, the state-run Global Times ran a fourth op-ed within a week — this time written by a scholar from a U.S.-based think tank — opposing both India’s and Pakistan’s entry to the NSG.

“China is right to stand firm on opposing Indian NSG membership, but not because it would be unfair to allow India’s entry and not Pakistan.”

Hyphenating India with Pakistan, Sharon Squassoni, senior fellow and director of the Proliferation Prevention Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said: “Both India and Pakistan have a long way to go to prove their commitments to nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament.”

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23758
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2016 10:04

Mexico reiterates support - The Hindu
Mexico on Thursday reiterated its support for India’s entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) and declared that it would partner India in new frontiers like space research and civil nuclear cooperation to produce clean energy.

“We support India’s candidature,” said Ambassador of Mexico, Melba Pria, at a press interaction here [New Delhi].

We are looking forward to discussing civil nuclear deal with India which may help our nuclear programme, which is exclusively civilian in nature,” the Ambassador said.


Sanatanan
BRFite
Posts: 481
Joined: 31 Dec 2006 09:29

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Sanatanan » 24 Jun 2016 10:13

पुत्रमह (PutraMah) could not pull it off, at least for just now :-)

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23758
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2016 10:26

A strange obsession with the NSG - Satyabrata Pal, The Hindu

There is always another side of the coin and we must also know about that, no doubt. But, the author (who was our High Commissioner to Pakistan) spoils the good arguments in the end with that last two paragraphs. Read the comments rebutting his points.

The government’s obsessive quest for membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) is very like the hunting of the Snark, a macabre, tragi-comic pursuit which ends with the hunter becoming the quarry. Why is it so desperate? The External Affairs Minister, usually a sane voice in the wilderness of her government, has apparently said at her press conference a few days back that there is a difference between sitting outside a room seeking the indulgence of others and being inside making the rules. Of course there is, which is why India used to press for an expansion of the UN Security Council, where non-members actually do have to wait in an antechamber when it is in the closed sessions in which it conducts business. But the NSG is not the Security Council, and with the waiver of 2008, India no longer needs it for its civil nuclear facilities. It does not have to sit outside its closed door; this government has chosen to park itself there, begging to be let in, like a supplicant outside the portcullis of a castle.

Established rules

The NSG has already made its rules, covering every aspect of nuclear trade, spelt out in its guidelines and trigger-lists. Complying with the fiat from the U.S. Congress in 2006, which demanded that India harmonise its export control legislation and regulations with those of the NSG, Missile Technology Control Regime, Wassenaar Arrangement and Australia Group and adhere to their guidelines if it wanted the nuclear deal, we have done so. The NSG’s original guidelines were issued in 1978 and revised in 1992. In 2010, two years after it granted us the waiver that freed us from its clutches, it decided that its rules should be updated; the revised guidelines, incorporating 54 amendments, were issued in June 2013.

There is no record of our having conveyed any reservations to the NSG, either over the three years it took to negotiate the changes or after it adopted them, though there are rumours that we did. Under our agreement with the U.S., our export laws and regulations either have been, or will have to be, amended to incorporate these changes.

One of these changes, though, made a crucial difference to our waiver, which “provided that transfers of sensitive exports remain subject to paragraphs 6 and 7 of Guidelines”. In 2011, before the other amendments were adopted, Paragraph 6 was revised to prohibit trade in enrichment and reprocessing with any country that has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which means that no NSG member can cooperate in these areas with India. Exactly as the NSG was set up to target India after its 1974 test, this amendment was introduced by NPT evangelists to target India after the 2008 waiver, which they could not thwart. We seem to have accepted this as a fait accompli.

As the record shows, once the NSG adopts changes, it retains them for over a decade, because its amendments are comprehensive and reaching agreement on alterations is hard. The last changes came after almost 20 years. Therefore, even if India does become a member now, it cannot beaver away at new rules. We might well want to revise paragraphs 6 and 7 again to suit our needs, but the rule of consensus, on which the NSG works, means anything we propose must be accepted by every other member. To expect those who revised Paragraph 6 of the guidelines with India in mind to accept a consensus to change or dilute its provisions is a pipedream. So if the government says it must get into the NSG because it wants to make or change the rules, it is being disingenuous.

What the government is pursuing so avidly now is a second-class membership. All other members of the NSG would trade in all phases of the nuclear cycle, except for India, where there would be a presumption of denial on enrichment and reprocessing. India would be the sole exception in the club, denied a privilege to which all the others are entitled. Why would any self-respecting government yearn for something so demeaning? It is far better to stay out of it, with the ambiguity of the unique status that the waiver granted to India.

Ripe red herrings

Other arguments have been put forward for our getting into the NSG: that the waiver could be revoked, that China could create problems for India, that if we are there we can ensure Pakistan is not, and we should be in a cabal that is so powerful. These are ripe red herrings. Firstly, the waiver was not specific to the agreement with the U.S., it covered all the items in the NSG’s lists, and it has no sunset clause; India needs no further waiver to import from willing exporters anything it needs for “IAEA-safeguarded civil nuclear facilities”; from 2011, of course, this would exclude enrichment and reprocessing. It can only be revoked by consensus, and India truly would be friendless if it cannot find one influential member of the NSG to oppose a proposal that the waiver be cancelled. Neither China nor any other member can create problems for India within the terms of the waiver: whether any member sells to us or not will be dependent entirely on other factors, including its domestic laws and the strength of our bilateral relations. And if a consensus does build up around Pakistan, how would it help India to stand alone against it?

And then, how powerful is the NSG? China has thumbed its nose at it after our waiver, claiming that the new reactors it then gave Pakistan were all grand-fathered when it joined the group. That is a lie, but no one in the NSG has had the gumption to nail it. Even if they had tried, of course, China would have objected, so it escaped even the mildest censure. If a member enjoys such impunity, that might seem to be a good reason to get on the NSG, but this makes sense only if India is bent on following China into a life of nuclear crime, helping another state illegally, or doing what it has not done so far, proliferate.

Banal goals

It is therefore utterly baffling that the government is straining every sinew to get into the NSG, in effect to shoot itself in the foot. But its apologists have sprung into action, lauding to the skies the Gadarene rush to Seoul. We are told that India now no longer fears foreign policy failure, that this mindless slavering for what it should not want, and cannot have, actually reveals a new level of self-assurance, the overcoming of deference towards the great powers, the confidence to finesse conflicts of interest, the dexterity to maintain relations with parties mutually hostile, a willingness to take risks and to go it alone that is the great gift and quality of this government, a break from the timidity of the past.

These though have been the hallmarks of Indian foreign policy from Nehru onwards.
The difference now is that the goals are so trivial and banal, and the special pleading for the government so obsequious and filled with amnesia.

In the first few years after Independence, when India was at its weakest, Nehru took on the great powers in a series of initiatives — on apartheid, decolonisation, disarmament — where India took the lead and was prepared to stand its ground, at first alone, until others joined. It helped develop the utterly new concept of peacekeeping, which the UN Charter had not catered for, and was one of the largest providers of forces, to challenge the West, which used its armed strength to bully and invade. On Indira Gandhi’s watch, India was prepared in 1971 to resist the pressure of a resolution on Uniting for Peace, passed in the UN General Assembly on December 7 by a vote of 104-11, with 10 abstentions, calling for an immediate cease-fire with Pakistan, until it had won its strategic objectives in the east.

P.V. Narasimha Rao opened an office in South Africa as soon as the transition from apartheid began, well before the African Union was prepared to countenance this, balancing India’s relations with the rest of the continent with the need to influence change in a vitally important country. He began the rapprochement with Israel, without sacrificing relations with the Arabs, that Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s government carried forward. And, when India was at a low ebb, it nevertheless had the courage and foresight to claim a permanent seat on an expanded Security Council, an initiative that the first NDA government pressed on with, even after the nuclear tests of 1998 drove India into temporary isolation. Mr. Vajpayee had the vision and the courage to try to make peace with Pakistan, and take India into the U.S. orbit, Manmohan Singh taking both initiatives forward, with the nuclear deal a leap in the dark, which took enormous self-confidence and conviction to execute.

These truly were enterprises of great pith and moment. What has this government done? Promoted an international day of yoga: Nehru was the Swami Vivekananda of his day, promoting peace as a spiritual value, Mr. Modi channels Baba Ramdev. Asked for Masood Azhar to be put on the proscribed list of international terrorists. And now the NSG.

Watching the Light Brigade of the British cavalry charge straight at the Russian guns at the Battle of Balaclava, the French Marshal Pierre Bosquet said, “It’s magnificent, but it’s not war, it’s madness.” This tilting at the windmills of the NSG is manic, but it’s not diplomacy, it’s folly.

nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 983
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby nandakumar » 24 Jun 2016 10:32

rahulm wrote:Money talks, all the rest is irrelevant. Such behaviour should not be tolerated. And to think we invite Chinese for rail tenders, use their rail tech among others. NaMo has publicly led and invested himself in this outcome. I hope he remembers this behaviour with Chankiyan fervour and focus with the memory of an elephant. NZ too.

Australia came around a few years ago. NZ are a US munna so can't understand their behaviour. What's Brazil smoking - exactly what gains do they expect to make by antagonising India?

For Brazil it is penis envy. Of the BRICS nation Brazil led with highest GDP growth in 2013 with the exception of China. All that went down the tube in the next two years for Brazil. To compound matters it is more dependent on China for capital and commodity exports. It is doing what China wants it to do.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23758
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2016 10:43

Mahesh_R wrote:I am not sure if it would have been wise if Modiji hinted these consequences in the 1-1 discussion with Xi?
Will it make them fall in line or more irritated to go all out against us?

Modi would definitely not have threatened Xi Jinping with anything like that. There is no need. NSG, ASEAN, UNSC, APEC have to be all seen by China in a much larger context and it will. There is no doubt about that either. However, they have taken a decision that it is in their interest that India does not join NSG. The equivalence with Pakistan is all smoke-screen. We therefore do not need to list out to China where all it will hurt if China goes ahead with its trajectory. Diplomacy is usually not conducted like that. And, if somebody threatens another sovereign nation the threat must be credible and the threatened must be convinced that there is every likelihood that the threat will be executed and that country has no means to defend that. Like the way, Hitler threatened some of the East European countries. We have no such leverage with China right now, but China would have calculated the consequences of its actions and come to a conclusion that it was well worth taking it. Make no mistake, this is a very inimical action by the Chinese and none can look at it as a 'principled Chinese position'. Therefore, retaliatory Indian actions must be set in motion. I do not think that China is going to relent in the end because it has expended so much diplomatic energy in opposing India and all that would go waste and also China would look to have bowed down. NSG, which has been talking of Plan B, would have to implement that, whatever that is.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6703
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby habal » 24 Jun 2016 10:47

China is like a house of dominos, if it is not propped up by anglo-west trade it can unravel really fast.

If India does an embargo on China, effect would be double whammy.

Moreover China now stands isolated in Asia.

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1126
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby rahulm » 24 Jun 2016 10:51

It's, perhaps, China's calculation that India needs China more than the other way around or that India cannot materially harm China - which could be true. NaMo needs to create jobs whichever way he can.

member_29296
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby member_29296 » 24 Jun 2016 11:08

Certainly today’s Friday can be called as Black Friday. First Brexit and then India Entry to NSG dream shattered for as of now”
If china would have left alone, we would have still consider this as physiological victory, but other countries also opposed shows that we still have to go a long way to fine tune our diplomacy . Switzerland has also opposed was a cruel surprise.
Somewhere I felt that it is U.S. who has not given its 100%. As its knew that India will not be able to make it on its own. Highlighting china here as a root cause of India not getting membership of NSG will further create a rift in between India and china. This will force India to embrace U.S more than ever.
Otherwise if U.S. would have been serious about India NSG, I expect all other 47 countries would have towed by now.
I still remembered the incident “How Obama, Clinton crashed a 'secret' meet between China, India to clinched a last minute deal” link is here http://www.firstpost.com/world/how-obam ... 65611.html

My only point is that this time there was not a serious will from U.S side at least.


Please note that I am one of a regular vister of Bharat Rakshak forum since last several years and really appreciate the healthy and serious discussion happens here. This is my first post; in case there is something wrong in it mods are free to take the appropriate action.

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 182
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Mahesh_R » 24 Jun 2016 11:13

SSridhar wrote:I do not think that China is going to relent in the end because it has expended so much diplomatic energy in opposing India and all that would go waste and also China would look to have bowed down. NSG, which has been talking of Plan B, would have to implement that, whatever that is.


Thanks SSji... unfortunately i feel the same.. lets hope Plan B works in our favor.

Chandragupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3469
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 15:26
Location: Kingdom of My Fair Lady

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Chandragupta » 24 Jun 2016 11:13

Re: the article posted by Sridhar saar.

I too do not get why NaMo is so invested in getting into the NSG. If we have the blanket waiver, then what is the need to spend political capital on a pointless pursuit? If India fail to get in, the domestic press is going to go all over the town shouting how this is a failure of NaMo and all the foreign visits in the last few weeks would be for nothing. Same thing with adding Porki terrorists to International terrorists lists. What will come out of that? If we really want to do something, why not do a Mossad and get them bumped off?

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6703
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby habal » 24 Jun 2016 11:17

Modi is newbie in international politics, but I appreciate his entbusiasm and spirit. India is more than capable of taking on China or anyone else that strays into its path.

this attempt will help the elephant realize what lies behind its ears. It's re-awakening the sleeping spirit of a very powerful nation.

prahaar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2797
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 04:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby prahaar » 24 Jun 2016 11:20

NSG waiver provides for removal of only a set of restrictions. It does not free up all aspects. Uranium supply has eased up slightly with Canada and Australia ready to provide the ore. However, technology restrictions are not removed completely. Technology denial is still in force, which is legal binding not leader specific.

And such initiatives make it clear in B&W, the stand of various nations - i.e. requiring parties to make a choice. China likes to work on sidelines, but at least on two occasions it has openly opposed India - first on terror and second on nuclear front. These events demonstrate how the PVNR-ABV-MMS strategy on "managing China" is past the expiry date.

member_26147
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 85
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby member_26147 » 24 Jun 2016 11:33

India is fortunate to be in sunbelt for almost the entire year. It should be leading from the front on Solar and Wind turbines instead of dwindling and rare nuclear materials.

uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1848
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby uddu » 24 Jun 2016 11:36

This time it's like forcing China to come in the open and oppose India. Till now they were using their extension called Pakistan to do the same. This time they themselves has to come out and tell the people of India that they are the real enemy of India.

When the Chinese commies can no longer hide and shoot through proxies, tells the whole world that India is finally here. Bravo. :)

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3612
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Kashi » 24 Jun 2016 11:41

DhruvP wrote:India is fortunate to be in sunbelt for almost the entire year. It should be leading from the front on Solar and Wind turbines instead of dwindling and rare nuclear materials.


Our energy needs necessitate that we tap into every possible source of energy as far as possible and feasible. Solar and Wind (and probably geothermal) have their place, but it is nuclear, thermal and hydroelectric that will have to do the heavy lifting, should we wish to have ample energy resources for our economy to continue to expand rapidly for the foreseeable future.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sarulan, tsarkar and 49 guests