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Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby RCase » 25 Jun 2016 09:36

I think India should start becoming more vocal about the CPEC passing through GB/ Kashmir, which is Indian territory. Maybe threaten to send in troops if the status quo is altered. Quote chapter and verse of its principled stand of upholding the Shimla pact - no third party interference and how the 'process' of accommodating China to build infrastructure can be done only after bilateral agreement can be achieved in a non-time bound manner.

This might be a better way to pay back the panda via its munna for NSG.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jun 2016 09:41

The Deal is NSG membership for ratifying Paris Climate Deal.

Obama Administration may not care for India's membership of NSG, but the legacy of a climate deal is certainly something they care about.

The world knows that Trump is not invested in seeking any climate deal, so there is some urgency to it.

Year end it may or may not happen, but it would be odd if NSG allows China to again filibuster the next session. This session was probably simply needed to let China blow off steam and to let it bask in its importance.

Next time there would be more pressure on China to give in, just like other ostensible "holdouts" also do so.

I am however more worried about Turkey, which may refuse to see the light and a country whose opposition others may ignore until it is too late.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby kittoo » 25 Jun 2016 10:32

Why are we counting anything on Trump Presidency (directly or indirectly)?
He is not going to win. He is almost immaterial, the way his ratings are going. I dont think now the world is much worried about his presidency. Everyone knows its not going to happen.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jun 2016 10:38

kittoo wrote:Why are we counting anything on Trump Presidency (directly or indirectly)?
He is not going to win. He is almost immaterial, the way his ratings are going. I dont think now the world is much worried about his presidency. Everyone knows its not going to happen.


No but Obama still wants to leave a legacy and can't depend on the next President, and neither can the environmentally-conscious world.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby chetak » 25 Jun 2016 11:01

The push back has already started??!!



ANIVerified account‏@ANI_news

An early positive decision by the NSG would've allowed us to move forward on the Paris Agreement: Vikas Swarup, MEA

RETWEETS 59 LIKES 38
1:16 AM - 24 Jun 2016


S.Anand ‏@smk_anand 20h20 hours ago

@ANI_news this is hint to US. Obama legacy. and if trump wins bye bye to paris agreement. chill everyone.

1 retweet 0 likes

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 11:16

NSG meet ends without any decision on India - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
The annual plenary session of the Nuclear Suppliers Group ended on Friday without taking any decision on India’s application for membership.

While the 48-member grouping held two lengthy closed-door sessions on the subject of new memberships, several countries expressed concerns over the entry of members who are not signatories to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), that India has refused to sign.

Through the session, a team led by Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar monitored developments in Seoul, meeting with various countries to try and effect a favourable outcome.

Eventually, though, say diplomats, between China’s attempts to block any discussion, countries like Brazil and Turkey calling for a “criteria-based” process to be put in place first, and others like Austria, Ireland, New Zealand and Switzerland raising the NPT question, India’s chances were scuttled. Government officials held that at least 32 countries {other reports spoke of 38 countries} had made positive interventions on India’s behalf, but the NSG’s actions are governed by consensus and not by majority.

In a reference to the discussions, the NSG joint statement said they spoke of “Technical, Legal and Political Aspects of the Participation of non-NPT States in the NSG” and decided to continue its discussion”. India and Pakistan were the only non-NPT applicants, and according to several diplomats privy to the consultation, Pakistan’s case, “was not even discussed,” indicating India’s case was the only one under consideration during the special sessions.

One of India’s strongest backers during the session, Japan, however, said that while no agreement had been reached during the current session, their efforts will continue.

Acknowledging the divisions within the NSG, the government also sought to differentiate between those opposing India’s entry for not signing the NPT, and those calling for a process.

“A few countries raised issues regarding the process for India’s participation in the NSG. It is self-evident that process issues would not arise if these countries were actually opposed to our participation,”
MEA spokesperson Vikas Swarup said in a statement issued in Tashkent.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 11:44

China no barrier to India’s NSG entry, says academic - Atul Aneja, The Hindu
As negotiations on India’s membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) stumble in Seoul, a leading Chinese academic has proposed that New Delhi should first tap the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) for support in order to advance its goal of joining the 48-nation club.

In response to e-mailed questions by The Hindu , Long Xingchun, Director of Center of India Studies, China West Normal University, referred to the “waiver” that India had received in 2008 following diplomatic exertions by the United States and hectic lobbying by South Block. This gave New Delhi an exemption from NSG rules governing civilian nuclear trade.

“Everybody knows the fact that India’s nuclear weapon programme is irreversible. [If] NSG may give India a waiver, why not the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)? The real problem is not from China but the consensus of P5 of the UNSC,” observed Professor Long.

Other opponents to entry

He pointed out that India’s entry to the NSG was being blocked not due to political reasons, but technical grounds. “Even [if] China agreed to support India, it [would have] no influence to Austria, Ireland, the Netherlands and South Africa,” he observed.

Professor Long said that India was unlikely to join the “Pivot to Asia” of the United States, widely seen as a doctrine aimed at the containment of China’s rise, in case it was denied membership to the NSG.

“I don’t think Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Indian government will join U.S.’s ‘Pivot to Asia’ because of failure of entry into NSG. India’s national interests would go from bad to worse by such step. India should be patient, and try to lobby other opponents. In my view, China would not be the only country to block India’s entry into NSG. India should take effective measures to ease the concerns from other opponents,” he said.

No quid pro quo

The Chinese academic, who has weighed into the NSG debate by writing in China’s state run tabloid Global Times , denied that New Delhi’s support for China’s entry to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) club as a quid pro quo, buttressed by opening up the Indian market for nuclear commerce with China, would persuade Beijing to change its mind on India’s entry to the NSG. “I reiterate the fact that China is no barrier to India’s NSG entry. At the same time, China has no strong and anxious desire to join MTCR; and the quality of Chinese High Speed Railway is good, and price is cheaper than other competitors, [and] it is in the interest of India. So India does not do any favour to China, [and it] may not be a tool to exchange with China.”

He added: “Finally, I must emphasise that NSG is not all of China-India relations. It is not the most important issue between two countries. Entry into NSG is not a strategic and urgent need for India’s development. [So] be patient.”


This is how Chinese scholars behave, supporting their country's stance through what appears to be 'reasonable logic', even if it does not carry much water, not like the Alka Acharyas or Bhadra Kumars (or the latest addition to the list, former High Commissioner Satyabrata Pal) who speak against the interests of their own county !

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby rahulm » 25 Jun 2016 11:50

So China is anxious about the fallout and damage to its business interests. India will decide the sum total of its extent and scope of relations with China post Chinese obduracy - it is not for China to decide.

Wasn't NaMo a supporter of Chini tech and their participation in his acchee din vision ? Maybe, when he mediates the next time, a new consciousness about China may arise but not pass.

Force people to make a choice so you know whose side they are on. The NSG was a battle that China had to fight without proxies.

“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" - Mr Born apart

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby chetak » 25 Jun 2016 12:30

Image

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Jun 2016 14:05

Why are we celebrating China's 'isolation'? How is it isolated, I cannot understand. It still has a UNSC veto (thanks to sex addict chacha), it is still the 2nd largest economy and maintains a military dominance over India and all of Asia. It still has its lackeys, and its economic muscle. This 'moral victory' of saying 'we have isolated Cheen' is Gandhian nonsense. They have managed to kick us in the balls and poke its thumb in our noses. They have been doing this for far too long. I expected Modi to take a harder line towards China from the start but it never happened. I doubt he will take it up even now. Pakistan is China's proxy, it's not a hidden fact. The nukes we face from our western border are Chinese not Pakistani.

As much as we all love NaMo but his foreign policy leaves a lot to be desired. Not the lack of trying, definitely but its happening far too often that he personally invests in relationships with heads of states and they all stick needles into India's back. With the exception of Shinzo Abe, it is the same story with Obama (his religious tolerance comments) and Eleven Jinping (jhoola and optics in Ahmedabad). Hope he learns from these episodes and takes note that not everyone will be dharmic and fair in their dealings.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Rajagopal » 25 Jun 2016 14:48

India can hit china where it hurts the most.

1) We must insist that, "The basic criteria for a country to be in the Permanent security council is that it should be a Democracy".

2) China remains the only communist country in that elite club and has a history of committing excesses on its own people. History of exporting Nuclear weapon designs to Rogue nations such as Pakistan and North Korea.

3) We can certainly influence the other 4 members to agree with us given their own fears of China and its recent isolation at NSG and the fears in south china sea.

4) India should strongly and forcefully argue that China has lost the right to be a part of the security council. It should continuously keep bringing up its violations on the international flora.

I wonder if India has ever raised the below objections or argued on the above points. Is there any reason why India has not looked in this angle?
Last edited by Rajagopal on 25 Jun 2016 15:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Bhurishrava » 25 Jun 2016 14:53

^^
His foreign policy has been good. Optics dont mean anything. You can focus on all the jhoolas in Ahmedabad if you want.
Obama is no Geoge Bush 2. So he cant and wont do the 123 for India. Abe has been good.
Noone is celebrating China`s isolation. But its not as if NSG is the end of the world and `China has managed to kick us in the balls`.

IMHO, we are building good relations with Japan and US. This will speed up further with the China stupidity. China has already played all its cards, giving nukes and missiles to the retarded fellas to our west. Now its our turn. Wasnt there a report stating India will be providing arms to Southeast Asian states.
Patience.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Bhurishrava » 25 Jun 2016 14:58

Tibet should be the core of any arguments we make against the Chinese. We have legitimate interests there.

Taiwan & South China Sea are good for pressurizing but they arent our immediate & direct concern

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Screambowl » 25 Jun 2016 15:06

Bhurishrava wrote:Tibet should be the core of any arguments we make against the Chinese. We have legitimate interests there.

Taiwan & South China Sea are good for pressurizing but they arent our immediate & direct concern


Provide <300km missiles to Taiwan, Vietnam and Cambodia. India can do that legally as India is a member of MTCR?

Take China to international court for Providing Missiles to Pakistan as per MTCR.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Bhurishrava » 25 Jun 2016 15:07

The escalation cycle should be -
1. Recognise Diayou/Senkaku islands as Japanese. Spratlys as Philipino etc. Start joint patrolling of south china sea with Japanese and Americans.

2. India does not believe in any one china policy. If Taiwanese are willing to play ball, great.

3. Derecognise Tibet as part of China. Tibet must be either an autonomous part of India or a buffer state.

In return the Chinese will support Paki claims to Kashmir. Dont think any Indian govt will do 1% of this though.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby nvishal » 25 Jun 2016 15:21

Modi has proved to be plain hot air so far.

His MII(make in india) push has also been a flop since he has not bothered to fix the taxation laws of the country. Indian themselves are scared to setup any kind of manufacturing plants in india fearing what range of taxes it will incur. Being in business personally, I can tell you that it is a nightmare situation.

The only reason modi is tolerated is because the other alternative(congress) is pathetically worst and has lost the support from the majority because of its vote bank identity. This is the level of benchmark.

Modi needs to seal his lips and act instead. Forget foreign policy, it is a multi level game. But how can domestic economy have an excuse? It is ironic that a gujju is parading for MII when gujjus are primarily the ones who dominate the import(everything from china) business and distribute it casually in the wholesale and retail markets around india.

Fu(k the tatas and the birlas. Make entrepreneurship accessible to everyone. After all these years, i'm beginning to think that modi is yet another sucker to these conglomerates while the common indian is damned.

Damn shame of a situation.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jun 2016 15:26

^^^ yes, damn shame. If only Sonia, pappu or crazywal would become PM.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby uddu » 25 Jun 2016 15:28

Here comes the point. Joining MTCR is a big mistake because it limits the missile that can be sold should be within 300km range. What if we have to provide a friendly country a missile that goes 700km or a 2000km one?

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jun 2016 15:31

Then we do it and say no one will be allowed into MTCR, until they fulfill all conditions... Like China does.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby uddu » 25 Jun 2016 15:37

JE Menon wrote:Then we do it and say no one will be allowed into MTCR, until they fulfill all conditions... Like China does.

There is a problem here. India being a democracy has never broken rules. We have always followed rules when there is no need to follow any. So please dont compare us with China. Two different world. Two different ways of working. Even when we could supply ASEAN countries with ballistic missiles we did not. We are sticking to MTCR while being outside and Chinese being init is proliferating to Pakistan and NoKo.Now imagine being part of MTCR how we will responde. :((
Also the rules seems to be the one who sells more gets into the MTCR or any other grouping. Even with NSG, may be we can sell nuclear weapons to Vietnam and even to Mongolia and watch being part of NSG and UN security seat being handed to us by the P5. The Nice guy is always going to lose in this unruly world.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby NRao » 25 Jun 2016 15:54

Good.

A new order is forming and India is heading in the right direction and China in the wrong. Let China lead the bad guys. It is fine.





And, what becomes of brIcsnow, I wonder.

I suggest India send a Deputy PM or FM at the next meeting.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby chetak » 25 Jun 2016 16:09

nvishal wrote:Modi has proved to be plain hot air so far.

His MII(make in india) push has also been a flop since he has not bothered to fix the taxation laws of the country. Indian themselves are scared to setup any kind of manufacturing plants in india fearing what range of taxes it will incur. Being in business personally, I can tell you that it is a nightmare situation.

The only reason modi is tolerated is because the other alternative(congress) is pathetically worst and has lost the support from the majority because of its vote bank identity. This is the level of benchmark.

Modi needs to seal his lips and act instead. Forget foreign policy, it is a multi level game. But how can domestic economy have an excuse? It is ironic that a gujju is parading for MII when gujjus are primarily the ones who dominate the import(everything from china) business and distribute it casually in the wholesale and retail markets around india.

Fu(k the tatas and the birlas. Make entrepreneurship accessible to everyone. After all these years, i'm beginning to think that modi is yet another sucker to these conglomerates while the common indian is damned.

Damn shame of a situation.


If you and people like you don't want to pay taxes, who else will, for you??

Will any Indian whine like this in the US/UK??

In a country where about 90-95% of the population can't or won't pay tax, the remaining suckers are squeezed dry by a govt that has little choice.

The military strength of the US comes from it's assured base of tax payers, not from it's weapons. That tax money then metamorphoses as weapons used for their power plays.

The law in the US will simply rape anyone who does not pay up on taxes, we need similar tax structures and law enforcement here too. Not business people demanding concessions at the drop of a hat and counting their black monies, with moron sons in the flashy audis and Mercs, running down ordinary people and killing them.

If one is so unhappy, one well knows what options are open to one, and since this is a democracy, one is free to use them.

Businessmen small and big have royally raped the PSU banks, and are screaming for their "loans" to be written off. Any sensible govt, any where else, would have effing thrown their sorry asses in jail.

If anyone has failed in business, for any (repeat, ANY) reason, let them sell their house, pay back the loans and bugger off. Let them beg on the streets.

There is no free lunch. Modi is not to blame for their gross incompetence.

Otherwise honest tax payers are footing their bills. Why should they??

If one did not calculate the business risks properly, or the headwinds became too much, why should others pay?? You fail, you pay, period. No effing explanations or excuses.

Head winds, international demand is weak, china is dumping steel, WTF cares?? Sell the business, pay back the loan, send wife and children to the jungle to collect firewood and sell it in the market. Eat or don't eat. WTF, cares??. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay the bill for you

or otherwise one should safely stay home and free load by suckling on their mother's breast. That way, the damage is contained and everyone is happy.

One never acknowledges the efforts of people like Modi, He is there simply to make their lives better, by hook or by crook and if he does not, bad mouth him.

Modi, Gimme, gimmie, gimmie............

such people should vote for pappu and family. We are culturally used to white skin folks raping us, in fact many even enjoy it. Modi is just a gawar, entirely unworthy of one's cooperation and understanding.

Modi is not a gujju, he is a proud and inspiring Indian. He doesn't need us, we need him.

Does one expect that a country that has been willfully buggered by the congis, foreigners, commies and some minorities helped by foreigners for close to seven decades, can be turned around in a piddly two years??

That must be some pretty powerful stuff that one is smoking onlee.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 16:30

Folks, China's behaviour is even worse than merely that.

The contours of China's complete opposition to India are slowly emerging. There is also truth when India says that it was just 'one country' that caused the problems.

And, on top of that, the Chinese want us to believe that they were not directing anything against us, only talking about procedures. :evil:

China blocks time-bound non-NPT panel too - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury, ToI
China turned down a strong bid at the NSG plenary to form a time-bound panel that would identify the process for entry of non-NPT countries. Beijing, sources told ET, was agreeable only for an "open-ended" committee.

The idea was tossed about for a while with many staunch NPT supporters willing to go with any of these ideas. However, the two-thirds strong group fronting India's cases rejected the proposition of an open ended process as that could go on for countless rounds.

India was not in favour of either but with China adopting a hardline on time-bound committee approach, sources said, there was no room left for the Chair to even negotiate the alternative.

Besides this, Beijing also emphasized that it had only been eight years since India got the waiver from the NSG and more time should pass before it can even be considered for membership. China, it must be noted, has not been able to make it to the missile technology Control Regime despite a decade-long effort while India is set to be formally inducted soon.

The difference between China's opposition and those of other countries was bit of procedure versus process. While a handful of countries wanted the process of admission, China stuck to the "NSG procedure of consensus". The basic point being that the Group could take nothing without a consensus. And this is where discussions hit a wall.

Ireland, New Zealand, Austria, Iceland and Brazil who focused on the process of admission did not have any opposition to India per se.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 16:33

nvishal & chetak, remember the thread title please and do not stray.

Take political discussions to appropriate fora.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby chetak » 25 Jun 2016 16:37

SSridhar wrote:nvishal & chetak, remember the thread title please and do not stray.

Take political discussions to appropriate fora.


sorry saar. just got my goat there onlee.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 16:37

NSG has a problem with the consensus issue. It was all right when the eight of them got together as London Group. Consensus would work in a small group, but when it grows, it is impractical.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Bhurishrava » 25 Jun 2016 16:40

Nothing works so well that it cannot work better.
Modi is an improvement on Congress. Big improvement. So,must be supported.
Constructive criticism should be fine. All of us would like to see better, stronger, more prosperous India. So what alternatives do we have to Modi and the present govt. Congress, `Third front`?!
Modi is doing just fine. I may not agree with many of this govts actions but I support it nevertheless.

Now coming back to the topic.
IMHO, not being admitted into NSG could just be a boon in disguise. It could actually give an impetus to the renewable energy market. With India being sunshine rich, I wonder why exactly are we running after nuclear energy onlee.
Besides, the Seoul meet has given a clear picture of where we stand in international fora. China, Pakistan, Turkey oppose us. White world, Japan, Russia are friends. We will do well to keep our friends and oppose our enemies too.
And Samuel Huntington must have been a proud man watching Sinic civilization aligning with Islamic ch**iyas.

Regards

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 16:52

While addressing a gathering at the Siri Fort Auditoriun in June 2015, Pres. Obama said, “. . . I support a reformed United Nation Security Council that includes India as a permanent member” After a long and warm personal and delegate-level discussion, Indian PM Modi announced, with US President Barack Obama by his side in a joint Press meeting on Jan 26, 2015 that President Obama has assured him of strong US efforts in support of India's full membership of the four international export control regimes at the earliest. This followed the breakthrough agreement in the operationalization of the civil nuclear deal after six years of tortuous negotiations. The Chinese reaction to these developments was predictably negative. The Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman said, “We believe that such (an) inclusion should be conducive to the integrity and effectiveness of the regime and decision should be made on consensus. We notice India’s commitment to relevant issues. We support the group to include new members and we support India to take further measures to meet the requirements for the inclusion in the group.” The reference to the decision having to be consensual meant that China would have to be involved and it had its own reservations on the issue. Also, the reference to India having “to take further measures to meet the requirements for the inclusion in the group “ meant that in China’s judgement India did not meet the standards set for admission into NSG. The reference to “new members” indicated that China would bat for Pakistan in the NSG.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby habal » 25 Jun 2016 16:57

they need to first change critereon from consensus to 3/4th majority. Otherwise it just expending energy over nothing.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Jun 2016 16:59

There is no alternative to BJP but there are alternatives to Modi. So whenever somebody criticises Modi, doesn't mean that he/she wants to vote for anti Indic sootiyas like Gandhis or Khujli. There are people like Amit Shah & Parrikar who I think are more pragmatic than Modi in my personal opinion.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 17:08

*WARNING*

Guys, I have already said that political discussions should be taken elsewhere.

It will be warning from the next such post.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby gakakkad » 25 Jun 2016 17:09

did not realize that police has arrived... :(( :((
Last edited by SSridhar on 25 Jun 2016 17:12, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Police has been here from the very beginning !

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2016 17:10

Seoul outcome will cool ties with China: Experts - Kallol Bhattacherjee, The Hindu
As the Nuclear Suppliers Group plenary in Seoul concluded without progress on India’s bid for membership, diplomats and experts warned of increased India-China tension and tactical instability in South Asia. At the centre of the growing tension, they said, is China’s evident plan to keep India hyphenated to Pakistan.

“China’s diplomacy indicates its reliance on Pakistan to deal with issues at home like the rise of extremism and anti-Beijing resistance in Xinxiang province. Pakistan also helps China by preventing the Organisation of Islamic Countries from criticising China on its policies in Xinxiang. China wants to keep South Asia hyphenated and that will lead to more tense ties” said Ranjit Singh Kalha, former Secretary of the External Affairs Ministry.


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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Vipul » 25 Jun 2016 18:21

India has shot itself in the foot by signing the MTCR. Time to give battery of 4-5K KM range missiles and announce sale of couple of reactors to Vietnam (with reprocessing technology) and you would see the chinese beginning to count the costs of their anti-india stand.

If Japan is serious about its support to India in the NSG then it should stop its hypocritical ways and start enabling Hitachi and Toshiba (through Westinghouse and GE) to establish the power plants in India.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby malushahi » 25 Jun 2016 18:44

US Senator praises NSG after India fails to get membership

now i wait for someone here or in the mil-forum to forcefully proclaim yet another example of umreekan perfidy.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Screambowl » 25 Jun 2016 18:53

Have patience guys. It took India two years to enter MTCR after formal application. India sought the membership in 2008 but apllied for it in October 2015.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby CRamS » 25 Jun 2016 19:13

I think India put its best foot forward. Only criticism, if at all, is if ModiJi was so deluded to believe Chincoms will so easily let go off their TSP munna, and US in fact will go all out and pull all punches, and some how allow India into the exclusive club at the expense of their TSP munna.

From my vantage point, the whole thing went according to script: US issued support knowing fully well Chnicoms will block, and Chincoms dutifully mentioned India & TSP, India & TSP. So my take is that US and Chincoms will want India to open some kind of "piss" negotiations with their TSP munna, and in their strategy, in some long drawn out spectacle, they will throw both India & TSP some NSG done bone in the distant future (note how TSP resumed its harkiri in Pampore and had their Hafeez pig issue threats. Expect Indian "liberals" to follow suit on resuming dialogue with TSP).

In other words, neither US nor Chincoms have any desire to let India into the exclusive club that allows India unfettered rise, and in a way, I feel its good because ModiJi can focus on building India's strength rather than bending down before our knees before them. Its not going to be as s!exy as headlines screaming about India's rise, but nevertheless, its the more stable and sure route.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jun 2016 19:22

>>There is a problem here. India being a democracy has never broken rules.

Rules that are already broken, verifiably, and without punitive reaction, no longer apply.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby habal » 25 Jun 2016 19:27

there is a big difference between USA and China acting against Indian interests.

USA is an anglo-saxon dominated racist country, we do not expect anything from it. USA double-crossing any non anglo-saxon nation in the world is not news. It does so on a pretty regular basis, there is no expectation from it and whatever it gives is a bonus. but China is different. China is a neighbour. China is not supposed to be even seen opposing India on multilateral forums. It is part of BRICS, it is part of erstwhile developing world. But it has a history of teaming up with USA to hurt Indian interests.

USA we will deal with later, but China must be punished and not be left alone to think it won the day. There is no need to up the ante immidiately,

look at Chinese mythology, they worship snakes & dragons, and if they know the temperament of snakes and reptiles, these do not always strike back immidiately and even poison their enemies dreams. China first needs to be hobbled. So let the likes of George Soros lead the way, let him attack the Chinese stock markets and cause a stock exchange crash, we can form the rear and impose trade tariffs and non-trade tariffs. Squeeze them little by little and then a big blow will bring them down to size.

sorry to say this but we have to work with the devil on this one.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby subhamoy.das » 25 Jun 2016 20:14

It is un heard of for India to be doing these kind of hard push to get to the high table of world diplomacy that matches its demographic, economic and technical foot print. I am sure all these hard push , is part of a well choreographed plan, to eventually get into these high tables. We just need to keep NAMO at helm of India till 2024.


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