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Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby panduranghari » 25 Jun 2017 03:13

Can anyone just give a 10 point precis about the advantage of NSG membership?

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Guddu » 25 Jun 2017 04:22

India's regular rejections at NSG has become a joke, the definition of insanity. If China is the road block, we have to change tactics, to change the result. Sort of reminds me of paki pleadings to unkil for predator drones, they only got regular snubs.
1. We have to make it painful for China to be the road block, cannot rely on the US or Russia to push them. I am sure GOI know these pain points better than me.
2. Another tactic would be to push for getting China out of the grouping, if there is a way to do that. Or form a new NSG type group without China as a member.

India is clearly punching below its weight...and needs to get aggressive. Unfortunately, Nehru's ghost lives in Lutyens Delhi, inspite of Modi.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby ashish raval » 25 Jun 2017 04:44

Why not create another NSG equivalent and invite friendly nations like Australia, US, Japan to it. Make it strictly non China. Eventually everyone will move to new group minus China and original NSG can rest in peace.. I doubt they will have even any will to change rules to make Indian entry easy. I will withdraw from SCO and BRICS as it is of no use to us. India can live with the fact that there are tremendous advances in solar and battery storage technologies which will mean that nuclear power will not be as critical or cheap power supply as it is meant out to be. India should focus on Thorium based reactors perfect it and use it and export it as cheap power generator technology.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2017 06:43

ashish raval wrote:Why not create another NSG equivalent and invite friendly nations like Australia, US, Japan to it. Make it strictly non China. Eventually everyone will move to new group minus China and original NSG can rest in peace.

The only real problem is that India does not have that kind of clout yet.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Guddu » 25 Jun 2017 08:10

All it needs is that the US support a new NSG minus China....but Trump seems to be mesmerized with China at the moment. If the US joins, the rest will follow.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby JohnTitor » 25 Jun 2017 09:10

Actually, it doesn't even need to be that formal. If India signed bilateral deals with every NSG member , it would pretty much negate the need for NSG.

Then we don't need the begging bowl strategy.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2017 18:03

From my post almost a year ago to this day:

IMO, there are only a few reasons for India joining the NSG:
• The waiver of 2008 can be changed at any time to our detriment. For example, the restrictions on ENR came about in c. 2011. It is true that such decisions are taken on a consensus by the NSG and we will always have a few friends, but one can never predict the future. If we are inside the NSG we can stop the waiver from being derailed, as India is never going to sign NPT unless & until we are recognized as a de-jure nuclear-power because the cut-off date is still 1967. This is purely self-preservation and why not?
• If NSG rules have to be modified, then, we need to be inside it.
• As an aspiring world power, and rightly so too, we need to be in all policy making-bodies and influential groups around the world. This is especially true in nuclear technology where we have considerable and widespread expertise for a very long time
• Last but not the least, IMHO, the fact that the London Club and its evolutionary NSG were created to target us and us only and we would be entering that as a full member without signing the NPT is as close to a de-jure recognition of us being a NWS which has hitherto been only a grudging de-facto recognition by some.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Guddu » 25 Jun 2017 21:54

If joining NSG is important to us...the current strategy has not given fruit. It needs to be changed, begging China to let us join will not happen easily. I assume GOI has a strategy, but its not obvious to me. Modi is trying to improve the economy, perhaps that's the long term strategy, which will allow doors to open, but we cant wait 10 years. Everytime China serves as the road block, we must provide them some pain, could be as simple as arming Vietnam for example, over time the cumulative pain will get Chinese attention. Or alternatively, we should stop requesting permission to join NSG and bide our time, until no one can stop us. Our best attempts at providing pain to China is by letting the Dalai Lama visit NE, that is laughable...though the Chinese humour us and make the right noises as if they are severely pained.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby Malayappan » 09 Jul 2017 21:46

NSG Bid - India trying to join Wassenaar Arrangement and Australia Group

Article says a team from Wassenaar Group visited India. No mention of a formal application done or time frame. PTI piece!

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 30 Oct 2017 14:39

Multilateral subjects set to top talks with Italy - The Hindu
A range of multilateral and bilateral subjects are likely to be in focus during the visit of Italian Prime Minister Paolo Gentiloni that begins on Monday.

The visit, which comes after both sides managed to contain the diplomatic fallout of the marines crisis, is for a day. Diplomats indicated that India’s global push for the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) membership and bilateral trade are likely to be on top of the agenda.

During the visit, Mr. Gentiloni will meet with External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, following which a number of bilateral agreements are to be signed in the Hyderabad House. Mr. Gentiloni is also scheduled to deliver a lecture at the Observer Research Foundation on Monday evening and hold talks with President Ram Nath Kovind and Vice President Venkaiah Naidu.

Natural partners

Italy’s support for India’s candidature at the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) in 2016 was an important marker in multilateral collaboration and indicated Rome’s long-term commitment to supporting India’s role in the export control regimes.

“Italian supportive role in the EU and NSG will help our cause with the EU-India FTA (Free Trade Agreement) and our bid for NSG membership. Italy and India are natural partners and this partnership must be allowed to take free flight,” said former ambassador to Rome Anil Wadhwa, indicating that the support will boost India’s campaign for membership in the global nuclear suppliers club. India’s bid for membership at the NSG has so far been scuttled by repeated opposition from China.


However, sources indicated that apart from the NSG, India is also seeking Italian support at the FATF (Financial Action Task Force) meeting that begins on Monday in Buenos Aires, where India has been pushing for stringent measures against Pakistan on terror funding issues.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Oct 2017 03:18

what is italy extracting from us for this deal...??italians are no saints, even their saints are no saints either (but thats a different question)

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 08 Nov 2017 18:25

India demands transparency in UN Security Council reform - PTI
India has demanded transparency in the UN Security Council reform process so that the people could know what is preventing the members from translating discussions into a negotiating text for the much- needed revamping of the world body's top organ.

Indian Ambassador to the UN Syed Akbaruddin said that even after almost a decade is over, UN members have not been able to agree on even a document that would be the basis of negotiating reforms.

In his address to the plenary meeting of the UN General Assembly on the question of equitable representation on and increase in the membership of the Security Council, Akbaruddin said there was no greater example of institutional inertia that resisted constructive adaptation than the inability to translate discussions into a text for negotiations.

This is despite 10 years of so-called intergovernmental negotiations authorised by the General Assembly and the continuous annual consideration of the agenda item here since 1993, he said.


"Modern challenges take the concerted efforts not just of Governments, but also of whole societies, and so wider society could be more involved in the diplomatic process. Perhaps, we need to consider options of opening the process, so that others are aware of what is it that stops the current discussions from even beginning on the path of a negotiating text," Akbarruddin said.

"Transparency in the working of diplomats is a useful adaptation that we can consider in this changing world as a pathway to progress," he said.

On the inordinate delay in reforming the UN Security Council, Akbaruddin told members of the General Assembly, that there is "no more vivid reflection" of deepening crisis of multilateralism than the "dysfunctional Security Council", which no longer reflects contemporary realities and hence confronts a crisis of legitimacy and credibility.

"When proliferating transnational threats, deepening economic interdependence, worsening environmental degradation - all call for effective multilateral action - we have fallen short of a substantive response on an issue as important as reform of the Security Council," he said.

"This is a sign that the ageing pillars of the established multilateral order are creaking and crumbling all around us, unable to meet the need for change," Akbaruddin said.

Referring to the agenda of discussion of the UN Security Council reform, the top Indian diplomat said this is indicative of the "lack of even incremental change in our approach to issues of importance", oblivious of the pace of change all around.

"As multilateral diplomats, we are used to punishing processes, but never has a process itself become a punishment, as in this case," he rued.
"If this is the 'new normal', it does not bode well for multilateralism. Never have the normative foundations of multilateral cooperation shown up to be weaker than in this instance," he said.


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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby SSridhar » 11 Nov 2017 04:57

ICJ candidate Bhandari's re-election bid fails in UNGA, UNSC - ToI
India's candidate for the International Court of Justice (ICJ) hit a significant roadblock on Friday, failing to win a re-election bid in both the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council. Dalveer Bhandari is locked in a deadlock with the British candidate, Christopher Greenwood.

The final decision now rests on a new round of balloting on Monday, which means a weekend of intense high-level political lobbying is in store.

This is India's first big setback this year in winning multilateral governance positions.
But it is important in view of the fact that India, earlier this year, took Pakistan to the ICJ to seek consular access to Kulbhushan Jadhav, who has been in Pakistani custody over allegations of being an "Indian spy". The final judgments on that will be delivered in December. Pakistan has recently appointed an ad-hoc judge to the ICJ for the case. If Bhandari loses, India will be without its own judge in the court.

Bhandari was elected mid-term last time, so, if elected, he will serve a full term. Officials said the fact that Bhandari's candidature was decided by the government as late as June, when others had firmed up their candidates a year in advance, diminished the chances of successfully lobbying for him. India had to compress a lot of lobbying into a few months, which was tough going because most countries had already pledged their votes. That's how, for instance, the Lebanese candidate, Nawaf Salam, who has been Lebanon's permanent representative in the UN for the past decade, sailed past Bhandari.

India's only satisfaction so far is that it has, as a non-permanent member, been able to hold down a candidate from a permanent member of the UNSC. Greenwood's support dwindled to 76 from 145 in successive rounds of voting. Indian officials are confident they would be able to maintain their lead in the UNGA. The UNSC is a different matter, but here, too, if India can secure about three extra votes, it would tip the scales in its favour.

The UK has always had a judge at the world court since it was established in 1945. The other judges elected by the UN on Thursday evening were Ronny Abraham of France, Abdulqawi Ahmed Yusuf of Somalia, Antonio Augusto Cancado Trindade of Brazil and Nawaf Salam of Lebanon.

The fifth Council and sixth Assembly voting rounds, which were run-offs between Bhandari and Greenwood, resulted in a deadlock. Bhandari won in the assembly and Greenwood in the council. In the final assembly round, he received 115 votes to Greenwood's 76. In the last round in the council, Bhandari received six votes and Greenwood nine.

Bhandari was elected in 2012 to succeed Awn Shawkat Al-Khasawneh of Jordan and he defeated a candidate from the Philippines. Therefore, he was essentially facing Salam, who is also from the region.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups

Postby ashish raval » 11 Nov 2017 05:47

Guddu wrote:If joining NSG is important to us...the current strategy has not given fruit. It needs to be changed, begging China to let us join will not happen easily. I assume GOI has a strategy, but its not obvious to me. Modi is trying to improve the economy, perhaps that's the long term strategy, which will allow doors to open, but we cant wait 10 years. Everytime China serves as the road block, we must provide them some pain, could be as simple as arming Vietnam for example, over time the cumulative pain will get Chinese attention. Or alternatively, we should stop requesting permission to join NSG and bide our time, until no one can stop us. Our best attempts at providing pain to China is by letting the Dalai Lama visit NE, that is laughable...though the Chinese humour us and make the right noises as if they are severely pained.

Absolutely agree here..
We should be forming a New Group on Nuclear compliant nations without any adverse proliferation records and also include nations which seek to develop nuclear technology for future based on research into next generation technology with remit of cooperation among the nations and on sharing some knowledge on advancement too. And guess what, which two nations never qualify for it!! Guessed right it is chicken and pakjab...what happens next when 47 of 48 msg members transfer to next group (along with experts) these 47 nations stop funding nsg for chai biskoot sessions..and eventually no one turns up and the NsG is dead and NCSG is born with India as founding member. We shall commit 100 million initial fund for it.

Thy shall chart own road when there are roadblocks make it paved better and eventually all traffic moves to better roads..

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

Postby SSridhar » 14 Nov 2017 16:03

Explained: Dalveer Bhandari's re-election bid to ICJ - Indrani Bagchi, ToI
The ongoing stalemate over the Dalveer Bhandari election in the UN has shown two things — first, the inexorable shift of power to countries like India and second, the extreme reluctance of the ancient regime to accept the change.

In the 70 years of the UN's existence, never has a candidate belonging to the elite P-5 group been absent from the world court.

The battle+ between the last two candidates left in the field, Dalveer Bhandari of India and Christopher Greenwood of the UK is symptomatic of this global tension.

After the last round of balloting, Bhandari logged 121 votes in the UNGA, moving up from 116 in the last round, a tribute to India's sustained multilateral diplomacy. Greenwood reduced his numbers from 76 to 68 [b]{Greenwood should get at least 97 votes}. However, in the UN Security Council, India lags six votes to Greenwood's nine {Bhandari should get at least 8 votes}
.

This number has been unchanged and is important for a couple of things: first, India has not lost the support it has already gathered, and second, the P5 are unlikely to abandon one of their own.

In normal circumstances, the evident momentum in Bhandari's favour should have been able to swing one or two Security Council votes towards him. But the P-5 have not budged from their positions. But the very fact that India, a non-P5 has prevented a sweep by the UK tells of an unfolding inevitability — if not Bhandari, India has shown that the P5 glass ceiling cannot possibly sustain for too long.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi has kept up a sustained campaign for Bhandari's re-election, having raised it at various summit meetings with key UNSC members. But as India discovered during the NSG admission process, breaking the status quo will remain an uphill task for some time to come.[/b]

Tweeting on the subject, Shashi Tharoor wrote, "As the UN Security Council(SC) and General Assembly(GA) vote to choose a judge for the International Court Of Justice (ICJ) between Indian and UK candidates, the legitimacy and effectiveness of the UN are at stake. The voice of the GA has been ignored too long." Continuing, he said, "This time a nominee of a permanent member of the Security Council has failed to get an absolute majority of the GA, for the first time in a direct contest to a major UN organ. GA vote has turned into a protest against an unwarranted extension of privilege for 70+ years. P5 lost by 40votes!"


[Thread starts here] As the @UN SecurityCouncil (SC) & GeneralAssembly (GA) vote to choose a judge for the Internat... https://t.co/gs44gmzOKI
— Shashi Tharoor (@ShashiTharoor) 1510578548000

2. This time a nominee of a Permanent member of the SC has failed to get an absolute majority of the GA, for the fi... https://t.co/WPKU2La6Wl
— Shashi Tharoor (@ShashiTharoor) 1510578783000

3. The election is no longer about the judge or the country he hails from but about the GA standing up against a me... https://t.co/eadHmaXgYX
— Shashi Tharoor (@ShashiTharoor) 1510578913000


4. Deeply entrenched interests of a tiny select group cannot be allowed to prevail in areas where such privileges... https://t.co/Qjbst2NJhJ
— Shashi Tharoor (@ShashiTharoor) 1510579107000

In order to be elected to the ICJ, a candidate must obtain simple majority in the both the organs of the UN. That is to say, a successful candidate must get 97 votes in the General Assembly and 8 votes in the Security Council. With the impasse on, the decision will be deferred and a consultation has been scheduled in a few days.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

Postby Kashi » 15 Nov 2017 06:21

It appears that a formal offer was indeed made to Nehru for a seat at the UN P5 and Nehru turned down the "American bait" :roll:

When Nehru Refused American Bait on a Permanent Seat for India at the UN

Letters between Nehru and India’s ambassador in the US shed light on his stand that while India was “certainly entitled to a permanent seat in the security council,” it would be dangerous for this to come at the cost of China.

:shock: :shock:

An excerpt from one of Nehru's letter to his sister whoa was the Indian ambassador to the US

In your letter you mention that the State Department is trying to unseat China as a Permanent Member of the Security Council and to put India in her place. So far as we are concerned, we are not going to countenance it. That would be bad from every point of view. It would be a clear affront to China and it would mean some kind of a break between us and China. I suppose the state department would not like that, but we have no intention of following that course. We shall go on pressing for China’s admission in the UN and the Security Council. I suppose that a crisis will come during the next sessions of the General Assembly of the UN on this issue. The people’s government of China is sending a full delegation there. If they fail to get in there will be trouble which might even result in the USSR and some other countries finally quitting the UN. That may please the State Department, but it would mean the end of the UN as we have known it. That would also mean a further drift towards war.


Do read the whole article

I wonder what other skeletons are hiding in the closet

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

Postby Rudradev » 15 Nov 2017 06:36

US citizen Siddharth Varadarajan, editor of the Liar, is entirely in favour of Indian PMs swallowing "American Bait" when it is detrimental to India's interests... for example Sharm el Shaikh, Thimphu, talks on Siachen/Sir Creek/"joint sovereignty" of J&K with Pakistan.

Only when such "bait" might have benefited India in uncountable ways does he celebrate an Indian PM for turning it down.

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Re: Tracking India's Admission into International Groups & Bodies

Postby SSridhar » 16 Nov 2017 14:29

India poised for bigger role in Commonwealth, to take over UK - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhry, Economic Times
India may be poised to play a leading role in the Commonwealth and take over the mantle from the United Kingdom in a way, as it hopes to set up in the country a secretariat of the grouping of former British colonies.

Prince Charles discussed with his interlocutors during his visit to the country last week the idea of a bigger role for India in the 52-member grouping owing to its benign and non-interfering approach as well as track record, people aware of the matter told ET. A Commonwealth secretariat in India might be on the cards in the future, said one of the persons, who did not wish to be identified.

Experts said that a bigger role in the Commonwealth would be particularly appealing to India because China is not a member of the grouping, unlike many other international forums where China tries to dominate the agenda. However, they said, India needs to guard against Pakistan, which is a member of the Commonwealth and may seek to play the spoilsport at the behest of China, its closest ally.

Pakistan is trying to garner support from certain African members of the Non-Aligned Movement on China’s position on South China Sea disputes, according to the diplomatic community.

India hopes to share its experience in areas such as solar energy, digitisation, trade and investment as part of its wider role in the Commonwealth, said a second person, especially since the country has undertaken several development-oriented and capacity-building projects in many of the Commonwealth nations from the Pacific to the West Indies.

PM Modi is believed to be interested in India taking on a larger role in the Commonwealth and he is expected to attend the Commonwealth summit in London in April 2018. He did not participate in the 2015 Commonwealth summit in Malta. Manmohan Singh did not attend Commonwealth summits in Australia in 2011 and Sri Lanka in 2013, when he was PM.

Experts said the UK is keen on decentralisation in the Commonwealth and wants other member countries to take the lead on various issues and projects. The agenda for the Modi-Charles dialogue was the next year’s summit that the UK is hosting. India has 55% of the Commonwealth’s 2.3-billion population and accounts for 26% of its internal trade.

Having stepped up its engagement with countries in Africa and the Pacific, India would get a platform in the Commonwealth to further its strategic and economic interests as a partner that does not dictate but implements projects, experts said.


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