Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 15:29

UlanBatori wrote:So Belgium launches terror attack on Paris - and Syria gets bombed. Just like Pak and KSA launch attack on US, and Afghanistan and Iraq get bombed. US has been wanting to bomb Syria for decades now, and Russians stole the thunder of the ShockNAwe.

At least it is some payback and small comfort for Belgium. In 1914, Serbia gets in a bissing match with Austria, and Belgium got invaded by Germany. Then in 1939, Poland, Germany and Russia get in a spat, and Belgium gets invaded just because France as a Maginot Line.

you can't blame the belgies, they've been messed up in the head since napoleonic times (yeah, the brits, french and germans had a war then too and fought it in belgium (waterloo!))

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 18 Nov 2015 15:38

While any and every terrorist attack is reprehensible but some get more attention and also more consequences. Probably, the consequences are important enough to justify greater attention. However, we still need to keep a watch on the terrorism in Africa and elsewhere.

Boko Haram specially needs special dissection because it pledges allegiance to ISIS but in sheer scale of massacre it leaves ISIS far behind.

Maybe OT but I am posting three links here for perspective:
From Today:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... -explosion

As a wail for ignoring Africa but focusing on Paris
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... -was-media

The contrast between the coverage of the Boko Haram Massacre and the Attacks in Paris is glaring.
By Meteor Blades / Daily Kos January 13, 2015

Faith Karimi and Aminu Abubakar of CNN report that nine days after the ultra-extremist gang Boko Haram slaughtered an estimated 2,000 Nigerian civilians in Baga Jan. 3, the bodies are still scattered around the town and authorities and surviving residents fear going there to bury them.
...

The CNN report mentioned in the above link: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/12/afric ... st-attack/

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 15:55

to be fair, the news analysis programmes in the UK major TV channels did carry reporting of book haram attacks and also the somali raids into northern kenya, however the public don't give a damn about dusty places with dark people
its only when its somewhere where the reader/viewer could have been (and Paris definitely qualifies for that) that it starts to generate eyeballs to your paper or channel...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 16:04

nobody seems interested in helping nigeria with weapons, intel and training.
they are suffering one massacre every week.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2015 16:51

Singha wrote:RT is live streaming a camera here/ seems like atleast 200 fully armed operators in black dress, 4 ambulances visible, lot of medical staff.

https://www.rt.com/on-air/france-anti-t ... operation/

Why is it taking more than 12 hours and 200 cops to get one man who is holed up?

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 18 Nov 2015 16:52

Paul Craig Roberts believes this is a false flag.

Washington refines its false flag operations

o understand the Paris attacks, it helps to begin with the question: “What is ISIL?” Apparently, ISIL is a creation of the CIA or some deep-state organization shielded by the CIA’s operations department. ISIL seems to have been used to overthrow Quadaffi in Libya and then sent to overthrow Assad in Syria. One would think that ISIL would be throughly infiltrated by the CIA, Mossad, British and French intelligence. Perhaps ISIL is discovering that it is an independent power and is substituting an agenda of its own for Washington’s, but ISIL still appears to be at least partially dependent on support, active or passive, from Washington.

ISIL is a new group that suddenly appeared. ISIL is portrayed as barbaric knife-wielding fanatics from medieval times. How did such a group so quickly acquire such extensive global capability as to blow a Russian airliner out of Egyptian skies, conduct bombings in Lebanon and Turkey, outwit French intelligence and conduct successful multi-prong attacks in Paris? How come ISIL never attacks Israel?

The next question is: “How does the Paris attack benefit ISIL?” Is it a benefit to ISIL to have Europe’s borders closed, thus halting ISIL’s ability to infiltrate Europe as refugees? Does it help ISIL to provoke French bombing of ISIL positions in the Middle East and to bring upon itself a NATO invasion?

Who does benefit? Clearly, the European and American political establishment in so many ways. Establishment political parties in France, Germany, and the UK are in trouble, because they enabled Washington’s Middle East wars that are bringing floods of refugees into Europe. Pegida is rising in Germany, Farage’s Independent Party in the UK, and Marine Le Pen’s National Front in France. Indeed, a recent poll showed Marine Le Pen in the lead as the next president of France.

The Paris attack takes the issue and the initiative away from these dissident political parties. Among the first words out of the mouth of the French president in response to the attack was his declaration that the borders of France are closed. Already Merkel’s political allies in Germany are pushing her government in that direction. “Paris changes everything,” they declare. It certainly saved the European political establishment from defeat and loss of power.

The same result occurred in the US. Outsiders Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders were slaughtering the establishment’s presidential candidates. Trump and Sanders had the momentum. But “Paris changes everything.” Trump and Sanders are now sidelined, out of the news. The momentum is lost. The story has changed. “Paris attacks become focus of 2016 race,” declares CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politics/ ... index.html

Also among the early words from the French president, and without any evidence in support, was Hollande’s declaration that the Islamic State had attacked the French nation. Obviously, it is set for Hollande to invoke NATO’s Article V, which would send a NATO invasion force into Syria. This would be Washington’s way of countering the Russian initiative that has saved the Assad government from defeat by the Islamic State. The NATO invasion would overthrow Assad as part of the war against the Islamic State.

The Russian government did not immediately recognize this threat. The Russian government saw in the Paris attack the opportunity to gain Western cooperation in the fight against ISIL. The Russian line has been that we must all fight ISIL together.

The Russian presence, although highly effective, is small in Syria. What does the Russian government do when its policy in Syria is crowded by a NATO invasion?

The only benefactor of the Paris attack is the Western political establishment and Washington’s goal of unseating Assad in Syria. The Paris attack has removed the threat to the French, German, and British political establishments from the National Front, Pegida, and the UK Independence Party. The Paris attack has removed the threat to the US political establishment from Trump and Sanders. The Paris attack has advanced Washington’s goal of removing Assad from power.

The answer to the Roman question, “cui bono,” is clear.

But don’t expect to hear it from the Western media.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2015 17:03

Singha wrote:nobody seems interested in helping nigeria with weapons, intel and training.
they are suffering one massacre every week.

No one is projecting Nigerian flag on any buildings. Nigeria fights alone and if we look at a future when Nigeria is up and Europe is down Nigerians will not give a flying fruk for European sentiment. In fact ISIS and islamist terror against Europe is a subset of contempt for Europe as a memory of what Europe felt about Semitic races. Of course I am not supposed to indicate any Schadenfreude and its not really joy or triumph I feel but "Orientalism" has always put those races at the periphery of what Europeans like to call "civilizaation"

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 17:27

nigeria situation is as follows

unkil has been providing sigint and other support
uk special forces have assisted with some operations, e.g. hostage rescue - mixed results, a few casualties
nigerian army was in disarray due to various political issues, but the recent elections have gone some way towards restoring normalcy and rebuilding a regular fighting force

most significantly, nigerian army hired white south african mercenaries with angolan bush war experience to reinforce and stiffen the regular nigerian military units in the northern areas (possibly unkil/poodle funded this?). combination of better leadership/tactics and backup plus more political resolve in lagos is now seeing the nigerian army regain its fighting capabilities and to a significant extent they have pushed boko haram back out of the cities. neighbouring countries have also supplied troops - some are more effective than others, some have come in for high praise

the SA mercs are keeping a low profile, but they are mostly the well known 'dogs of war' bunch we know from previous conflicts

the underlying problem of course is that in the northern reaches, boko haram are in a hinterland of green sympathy, and historical antagonism towards the ROL's

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 18:19

operation in saint denis is over, 2 dead including 1 female suicide bomber who charged the police. there are a few wounded cops too, one seen being helped out limping. 2 men arrested - 1 in his chuddies bundled into police car, another (black man) escorted in handcuffs to a car

interior minister gave a quick briefing - saying let the forensics teams do their job before we say more about who's who. apparently 2 bodies found in the rubble also, 1 possibly shot by a sniper

hollande is making love, peace and harmony speech to assembly of mayors across france

mayor of molenbeek also on tv saying that its not her fault, they don't have any money to do anything

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Nov 2015 18:32

shiv wrote:
Karan M wrote:For all we know they just moved mud. Would ISIS be stupid enough to use those buildings after the Paris attack and knowing they'd be attacked from the air?
You know Karan - none of these things might work - and even well known strategic thinkers like Sagarika Ghosht are saying that if the attack was planned in Belgium what is the point in bombing Syria. But it certainly lets off steam and gives the feeling that something is being done - so that when nothing changes after a few years they can say "Well we bombed them but blah blah"

In India's case we don't even let off steam and when nothing changes after a few years everyone is asking why we did nothing.

completely agree. this is what all this nautanki is. its a way for France to say hey now, we did something. in reality those airstrikes would have probably scared one goat and 2 camels and the ROI on taking out any accidental jihadi (who will be promptly named #3 ISIS HEAD) will be euros gazillion.

even all the russian powerboating in syria is probably more show than substance. the syrian army launched an attack soon thereafter and got in trouble to them with TOWs everywhere. now some limited improvement in ground situation but hardly worth the hype the media has put out.

point is boots on the ground matter, airstrikes can only do so much, against guerilla type armies.

and even all that these el-generals have accomplished is blow up their own country at the behest of khan and europe. and it continues.. daesh type warlords will emerge make good money off of oil exports and what not.. and disappear.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 18:35

Nusrah and shams are not guerilla.
They have to either hold ground or concede and go to turkey. They were never guerilla in true sense.

Ruaf help has helped to gain 500 sq km so far

Syria atmy lacks massed precision artillery that's another story. Else they would not need all this help.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Nov 2015 19:07

Paris Live coverage of the St.Denis ops.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/
[quote]
Paris attacks: Major police raid in Saint-Denis over, seven arrested and two suspects killed - live
The raid had targeted Abdelhamid Abaaoud, mastermind of Friday's attack. Follow all the latest news

Isabelle Fraser
1:56PM GMT 18 Nov 2015
• Police in Saint-Denis operation over
• Two confirmed dead, seven arrested, five police injured
• Suspects were "preparing another attack" on Paris' commercial centre
• Dummy bomb found last night in Hannover
• Turkey arrest suspected Isil members headed to Europe as refugees
• Terrifying details emerge of Bataclan police assault

PS:CaMoron says that he will veto a UN resolution on Syria becos Russia has a diff. agenda from that of the UK! The West is now desperately trying to steal Russia's thunder in Syria and pass off the impending rout of ISIS as if it was all due to the US and Western mil forces! That way they still want regime change in Syria.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 19:09

before the syrian civil war, the IDF rated them as the most competent arab army and thats where most of the concern was
previous wars in the golan were closely fought
without any cohesion and command and control, the syrian army is like any other rag tag militia

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Nov 2015 19:26

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:nobody seems interested in helping nigeria with weapons, intel and training.
they are suffering one massacre every week.
No one is projecting Nigerian flag on any buildings. Nigeria fights alone and if we look at a future when Nigeria is up and Europe is down Nigerians will not give a flying fruk for European sentiment. In fact ISIS and islamist terror against Europe is a subset of contempt for Europe as a memory of what Europe felt about Semitic races. Of course I am not supposed to indicate any Schadenfreude and its not really joy or triumph I feel but "Orientalism" has always put those races at the periphery of what Europeans like to call "civilizaation"

however, we in India are missing a trick not wholeheartedly supporting nigeria when they are in trouble. the vacuum is being filled by china and pak.

I follow this blog for nigeria military news and one might note that India is mentioned rarely. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 19:37

Nigeria's Dasuki 'stole $2bn' from anti-Boko Haram fight

Nigeria's President Muhammadu Buhari has ordered the arrest of his predecessor's security adviser, for allegedly stealing some $2bn (£1.3bn).
Sambo Dasuki is accused of awarding phantom contracts to buy 12 helicopters, four fighter jets and ammunition. He denies the allegations.
The equipment was meant for the fight against Boko Haram Islamist militants.
Soldiers have complained that despite the military's huge budget, they were ill-equipped to fight.

Boko Haram has killed thousands in north-eastern Nigeria in its campaign to create an Islamic state.
In the latest militant attack, at least 32 people were killed by a suicide bomber on a vegetable market in the north-eastern city of Yola on Tuesday night.

yantra · Post by **yantra** » 18 Nov 2015 19:38

So much coverage and details on Paris attack - deservedly no doubt. Unfortunately no such outrage and coverage on Shahid Colonel Santosh Mahadik - a brave son of India - RIP. Even by Indian press!
Neither is the coverage/outrage as extensive for Beirut or Nigeria.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Nov 2015 19:55

True.Unfortunately,the bombings,suicide attacks,etc.,in the M-East has been going on for so long that it has become "par for the course".No longer does it cause shock. When a major Western capital like Paris, is attacked in 26/11 fashion indiscriminately,it causes the reaction we've seen. There was far lower outrage about the bombing of the Russian airliner than that of the MH flight shot down over the UKR. This hypocrisy of the Western media is well known. If it happens in the West,"a terrible outrage". If it happens to Russia,etc.,"they deserve it".

When Pak attacks India through cross-border terrorism,it is "par for the course",,but must swallow the pain and to add insult to the injury,India must not attack Pak and the terror outfits there in reply.

What the Paris attacks however represent is that once again it is "blowback time" for the West.Just as OBL once the darling of the US.CIA et al,bit the hand that fed him,so too is ISIS showing its true intentions and that it cannot ever be controlled by the West as a non-conventional weapon to achieve regime change in the Arab world.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 18 Nov 2015 20:29

Turkey fans BOO during pre-match minute's silence for the victims of Paris attacks and chant 'Allahu Akbar' before Greece friendly.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2015 20:31

Rahul M wrote: however, we in India are missing a trick not wholeheartedly supporting nigeria when they are in trouble. the vacuum is being filled by china and pak.

I follow this blog for nigeria military news and one might note that India is mentioned rarely. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/

We are an anglophone nation who get all our inputs from the English media - which are dominated by the USA. We think American (used to be Britain) and we empathize with American causes, we weep with them, see what they see, admire what they admire, read what they recommend and we follow American elections. Who follows Nigerian politics? The local language press also gets inputs from the English media.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 18 Nov 2015 20:42

Rahul M wrote: however, we in India are missing a trick not wholeheartedly supporting nigeria when they are in trouble. the vacuum is being filled by china and pak.

I follow this blog for nigeria military news and one might note that India is mentioned rarely. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/

Don't we have a sizable number of legal/illegal Nigerians in India for that war to spillover here if we actively support Nigeria in their fight. We have enough on our plate anyways. No strategic value.

-M

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Nov 2015 20:44

jagga wrote:Turkey fans BOO during pre-match minute's silence for the victims of Paris attacks and chant 'Allahu Akbar' before Greece friendly.

these are the very same "people" who want free and privileged entry into the EU, if not full membership itself.

good going.

hope merkel and her gang of refugee inviting duffers took note

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 20:44

two huge blasts reported in north nigeria town of Kano, in the market.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Nov 2015 20:47

Singha wrote:Nusrah and shams are not guerilla.
They have to either hold ground or concede and go to turkey. They were never guerilla in true sense.

Ruaf help has helped to gain 500 sq km so far

Syria atmy lacks massed precision artillery that's another story. Else they would not need all this help.

they are guerilla because all they need to do when they are losing is take off their uniform and kiss the syrian army on the cheek when they come in as the entire lot are wont to do.

next bunch will be off to turkey and hightail it.
conventional armies have uniforms, staying power, organized logistics. easy targets if you look for them. here the chaps will be mixed with civilians. in other places they will move between rubble. ruaf will help move some of the rubble into smaller rubble.

all the so called territorial gains are based on what we optimistically project without US etc throwing in more ATGMs etc. if RUAF airpower was a decider and everything cut and dry, syria would be in control of syrian already. huge number of RuAF strikes. yet syrian army is still struggling.

all the precision arty in the world can't help if your own army created the FSA with part of its rebel manpower and you had to rely on help from abroad to save the capital!

yantra · Post by **yantra** » 18 Nov 2015 20:50

shiv wrote: We are an anglophone nation who get all our inputs from the English media - which are dominated by the USA. We think American (used to be Britain) and we empathize with American causes, we weep with them, see what they see, admire what they admire, read what they recommend and we follow American elections. Who follows Nigerian politics? The local language press also gets inputs from the English media.

Well said, Shiv. But 'we' want to be the next super-power, without our own inputs, opinions, press, strategic reasoning, education, technology, power projection, weapons or intelligence!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 20:50

under 'use it or lose it' doctrine, all sleeper cells and nodes in EU will likely go into overdrive in the next couple weeks to lash out and make their presence felt lest they be inevitably hunted down.

sweden is on high alert today due to info on imminent strike. a UK train station was evaced. copenhagen airport terminal evac'ed.....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Nov 2015 20:51

Mihaylo wrote:
Rahul M wrote: however, we in India are missing a trick not wholeheartedly supporting nigeria when they are in trouble. the vacuum is being filled by china and pak.

I follow this blog for nigeria military news and one might note that India is mentioned rarely. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/
Don't we have a sizable number of legal/illegal Nigerians in India for that war to spillover here if we actively support Nigeria in their fight. We have enough on our plate anyways. No strategic value.

-M

nigeria has no strategic value ??

I am sure many experts opined the same about India in 80's only to gulp in surprise in 90's and onwards.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 18 Nov 2015 20:52

Mihaylo wrote:
Rahul M wrote: however, we in India are missing a trick not wholeheartedly supporting nigeria when they are in trouble. the vacuum is being filled by china and pak.

I follow this blog for nigeria military news and one might note that India is mentioned rarely. https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/
Don't we have a sizable number of legal/illegal Nigerians in India for that war to spillover here if we actively support Nigeria in their fight. We have enough on our plate anyways. No strategic value.

-M

The war, if we were to isolate the Jihadists of Islam, is with Salafists, Wahabism. That is already on our shores. The radicalised elements of the Nigerian youth (if) in India will strike here whether we do something in Nigeria or not. We are already a "Kufr" country in their dead reckon-er.

However, even if we do not get actively involved, our lack of focus on the Nigerian war on terror is not justified. At least on BRF, we should be keeping tab on Boko Haram and the Somalian / Ethiopian / Libiyan / Sudanese, etc terror factions. A lot of Indian UN Peacekeepers have been actively deployed in various parts of Africa over the years and our knowledge base about these conflict zones needs to be current and updated.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 21:02

we should start using the india-africa thread for this, or start a new 'jihad tracker in africa' thread?

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 18 Nov 2015 21:49

shiv wrote: We are an anglophone nation who get all our inputs from the English media - which are dominated by the USA. We think American (used to be Britain) and we empathize with American causes, we weep with them, see what they see, admire what they admire, read what they recommend and we follow American elections.

My dad made the same remarks a couple of years ago, although he didn't put it as eloquently as you did. He said that when he was a kid, the dominant narrative was from Britain but now it is supplanted by USA.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2015 21:57

Philip, Recall Rue St. Denys from Three Musketeers.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 18 Nov 2015 22:40

Regarding Nigeria-
I feel that there is a lack of indocentric information sources especially a country specific primer ala CIA factbook or BBC country profile, that Indians to use. This is something I have been requesting BRF to create, just like the Indian military pages it created, leading to greater interest in military matters by Indians.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 22:55

The other thing to be aware of is that France has been acting as the backbone for anti jehadi operations south of the Sahara in Western Africa - unkil in east Africa, but the French have boots on the ground and ndjamena as a major base

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 22:58

Nigeria is of paramount importance to the fight against jehadism
And for the economic recovery of Africa

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 18 Nov 2015 23:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBRSfdAvsDQ

Nov. 17, 2015 - Video: Turkey Fans Boo Moment of Silence for Paris Attacks, Then Break Out Into This Chant. What was supposed to be a moment of silence to honor the victims of the Paris attacks devolved into a wave of vitriolic booing during Turkey’s game against Greece on Tuesday, which ended 0-0 with more than 17,000 people in attendance.

Turkish fans booed a minute of silence for those killed in #ParisAttacks during a match with #Greece. pic.twitter.com/lP56oXUO19 — Zaid Benjamin (@zaidbenjamin) November 17, 2015

“Our fans should have behaved during the national anthems and during the one minute silence,” Turkey’s manager Fatih Terim said after the match. “Greece is our neighbour. Today is world neighbours day, but our fans didn’t behave like neighbours in this match.”

Reuters reporter Ece Toksabay was at the game and reported hearing chants of “Allahu Akbar,” a claim also reported by CBS, among others.

Istanbul fans boo minute of silence for Paris attacks, chant "Allahu akbar" before Turkey vs Greece soccer friendly — Ece Toksabay (@ecetoksabay) November 17, 2015

this is my last tweet on this as i'm being bombarded with threats&insults, Allahuakbar loud&clear after 2nd minute https://t.co/dojeLvPCuG — Ece Toksabay (@ecetoksabay) November 17, 2015

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 18 Nov 2015 23:03

Singha wrote:we should start using the india-africa thread for this, or start a new 'jihad tracker in africa' thread?

I think use the India-Africa thread, please, rather than creating yet-another-thread.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Nov 2015 23:04

Singha - the Somali spill over into Kenya is also very very critical, lots of expat jehadis ending up there too

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Nov 2015 23:28

K Mehta wrote:Regarding Nigeria-
I feel that there is a lack of indocentric information sources especially a country specific primer ala CIA factbook or BBC country profile, that Indians to use. This is something I have been requesting BRF to create, just like the Indian military pages it created, leading to greater interest in military matters by Indians.

saarji, please use the BR wiki which was created for this purpose.
http://bharatrakshak.wikia.com/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Nov 2015 00:09

Wash Post claims that Abdelhamid Abaaoud has been killed!!!!

NYT claims it is TBD.

member_29247 · Post by **member_29247** » 19 Nov 2015 01:04

I was talking about Narco angle in Paris and Syria, as a rule when culinary institute gets involved Narco angle will always be present. It is a quite (quiet) little diversion from the cooks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ke13JNlpBQ

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ke13JNlpBQ[/youtube]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Nov 2015 01:18

Irish Times;

Timeline of Paris St Denis apartment raid