Re: The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 06:33

Attack happened on Friday the 13th
Attacks in 1st, 10th, and 11th arrondissements. 7 locations targeted. Media is only covering a few. Which were the others?

Bataclan - ~100 killed? Apparently, attackers mentioned Syria. Some wearing suicide belts and blew themselves up when police stormed.
Cambodian restaurant - 4 killed?Other reports say14 killed and 20 injured.
Carillon bar - 11 killed?
Belle Equipe restaurant - ? killed
Stade de France - Hollande was here. Germany - France match. 10? injured/killed?

Map covering these locations

140? people dead and counting

3 5 attackers killed by police, some terrorists on the run
Attackers spoke in French
Suicide attackers
Bombs in stadium and drive by shooting at Cambodian restaurant using a Kalashnikov
Cold blooded assasination of hostages. Some reports mention hostages were shot one by one.
Emergency declared
Borders locked down
French police have no idea about the number of terrorists and if the attacks are over
26/11 redux. Hollande was at the venue! He survived. The outcome could have been different.
Massive French intelligence failure

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Nov 2015 06:36

No need for creating another thread for this attck as the Islamism thread suffices.

Media is reporting that the terroists were shouting Mohammadden religious slogans like Allah Hu Akbar making this an act of Mohammadden terrorism. With that yet another European Capital city joins the list of being victimised by Mohammadden religion inspired violence after London (7/7) and Madrid (11-M).

Only yesterday our Prime Minister Modi at the UK Parliament had said:

“We must adopt a Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism in the UN without delay. There should be no distinction between terrorist groups or discrimination between nations”.

I hope that the carnage in Paris will at least goad all of the EU taking real punitive measures against all Mohammadden Terrorism sponsors including State sponsors of terror such as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for fomenting Mohammadden Terrorism targeting India, without distinction:

Paris attacks: ISIS gunmen shouted 'Allah Akbar' as victims were slaughtered in co-ordinated attacks

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Nov 2015 06:38

Wonder when BO's Spokesnitwit will blame the Paris attacks on the Russians. Or Assad.
Per SeeEnnEnn:

BMFTV: According to French officials, gunmen are still at large in Paris attacks. Five suspected attackers have been "neutralized." Watch live on CNNgo.

160 == number of ppl killed in Mumbai 2008, no?

disha · Post by **disha** » 14 Nov 2015 06:39

No. 26/11 WAS NOT DRESS REHERSEAL. NEITHER PARIS IS UPSCALED VERSION.

26/11 was live testing of a battlefield plan. 13/11 is re-testing it in Europe.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 14 Nov 2015 06:40

In this hour of trouble, it is very important to realize that the actions of few doesn't and cannot reflect the true teachings of Islam and muslims. It is very imperative, the French find a lasting and peaceful solutions to all outstanding problems with its minorities and elsewhere in the globe through negotiations. Negotiations are the way forward, preferably under a neutral third party country. If they have trouble, Saudi Arabia as the important member of UN Human Rights Council must be encouraged to host the peace and healing process that is badly needed across Europe.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 06:44

@disha: Indeed. Modified.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Nov 2015 06:45

^^ All in all, reflects very,very poorly on the French intel and their capabilities.

I guess entire Europe is in the same boat due to their "secularised" intel policies and are generally sitting ducks for even future activities.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 14 Nov 2015 06:48

Eurabia - When one sows wind one will reap whirlwind. Chickens are coming home to roost. Eurabia, always provided help to all kinds of "misguided elements", if and when they were active far from home. Sometimes, the "misguided" stop being misguided and become "guided".

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 14 Nov 2015 06:49

Sumji, +1. However, I do feel that after a point you can't really stop every such attack....even the US, which is geographically quite isolated has suffered a few after the 9/11. What they really need to do is stop being lapdogs of the Barbarian clan. So long as TSP, Barbaria et al., continue to have patrons, this crap is never going to stop....

India needs to increase the mil budget to a point where the forces become strong enough to give appropriate jhapad when and where needed. Military bulk is needed to ensure that resounding jhapads are effectively and expeditiously administered and and adventurism from China and the west is nipped.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 06:51

The attackers possibly stayed off the digital grid. If this is true then HUMINT has failed.

TV: Link MetroJet and Paris today and if its ISIS then represents a paradigm shift in that ISIS has moved into AQ domain. Could mean ISIS feels under pressure and is sending a message and this is the begining

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 14 Nov 2015 07:28

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203

pretty bad. The French will have it real bad. They have a sig muslim pop and a few are getting fundamentalized / mentalized. It does look like the security was a bit lax (god forbid, security in India could be even worse!).

BBC reports *atleast* 120 died. Still a few are held as hostages? It was always wondered if a few of the refugees were rotten apples. Apart from more rotten apples already inside.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Nov 2015 08:36

????what happened to all other posts???

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Nov 2015 08:42

While at outset looks like Mumbai but has crucial differences.

Similarities:

- Multiple gunmen
- Multiple targets ~six locations
- Over 150 killed majority in one place Concert hall vs CS Station.
- Cafes attacked Cambodian vs Leopold Cafe

Crucial differences

- No suicide bombers in Mumbai
- Attackers trained in Pakistan Army camps
- targets recced by US DEA agent David Headley
- David Headley was chaperoned by Rahul Bhatt
- Attack coordinated from Karachi Pakistan by cell phones.

So State sponsored terrorists attacked Mumbai.
We don't see that in Paris.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Nov 2015 08:43

vijaykarthik wrote:This does point to a few simple facts:

Massive and that's absolutely MASSIVE intel failure.
There exists a possibility of coordinated attacks --> which points to pt 1. But it is also more sinister. Coord attacks need some kind of signaling and it means the traces and trails weren't picked. [Which further points to the fact that militancy as a living system is possible. Which needs human and digital support. A few locals should have supported and coordinated. Unless the terrorists were pure bred in the ghettos and the rues of France]

One would have assumed that they will have learned from the Hebdo attacks. Its likely that they did but got carried away, though. Difficult to keep at a high state of alert for ever. Nerves fray.

Yes - France is attacking ISIS. They also sent a warship recently?If it were IS, then its likely that these are retribution attacks.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Nov 2015 08:46

Sorry didnt lock the topic before renaming. Caused a transient glitch

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 14 Nov 2015 08:48

Major jihadi attack and I am not thinking paki connexion. Surely ISIS has overtaken pakis in intl terrorism.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Nov 2015 08:48

Folks Please don't draw false analogies between Mumbai and Paris attacks. Mumbai was more severe and had state support.

Anujan please rename thanks.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Nov 2015 08:49

The Climate summit is supposed to be end of the month in Paris when many head of the states will be visiting there. Shudder to think if the Islamic terrorists succeed in repeating same then. Climate deal very much detrimental in permanently removing strategic value of oil which is main export of islamic countries beside Religion has nothing to do with terrorism.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Nov 2015 08:53

Done.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Nov 2015 08:54

ramana wrote:While at outset looks like Mumbai but has crucial differences.

Similarities:

- Multiple gunmen
- Multiple targets ~six locations
- Over 150 killed majority in one place Concert hall vs CS Station.
- Cafes attacked Cambodian vs Leopold Cafe

Crucial differences

- No suicide bombers in Mumbai
- Attackers trained in Pakistan Army camps
- targets recced by US DEA agent David Headley
- David Headley was chaperoned by Rahul Bhatt
- Attack coordinated from Karachi Pakistan by cell phones.

So State sponsored terrorists attacked Mumbai.
We don't see that in Paris.

Ramana it is a combination of Mumbai bomb attacks and 26/11. But the crucial similarity is attack on crowded soft targets. The Islamic world is so used to bombs in mosques that we don't even mention them - but I am certain that death and mayhem of civilians mean nothing to these people. But ISIS has "private party" state sponsors in Kuwait and KSA. This is like deniable entities that have been used in the west for decades to train insurgents

I recall that I was going for an exam in Edinburgh when the Air India jet was brought down off Ireland. Later there was news that some Khalistan terrorists had attended commando training schools in the US - run as a business enterprise by Vietnam vets. The CIA had used covert warfare for so long that they gave the "tech" to Pakistan and Pakistan became the epicenter of terrorist training - and no one gave a damn as long as India was the target. After 9-11 and the Afghan clean up and gradual pressure on Pakistan terror training schools have moved to other unstable areas - Somalia, Nigeria and now the Levant. I think there has been a continuous "transfer of technology"

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 08:54

~20 patients at the Pompidou hospital had severe injuries.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Nov 2015 08:56

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/13 ... -in-paris/

just ONE DAY before the multi-national meeting to resolve the Syria crisis! What an amazing coincidence!!

Lone french air craft carrier leaves for mediterranean on Wednesday.
https://www.rt.com/news/321873-france-a ... ier-Syris/

the french internal security forces, either woefully incompetent or complicit or security situation in paris and few big cities with high level of immigrants out of their control.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Nov 2015 08:57

Renaming threads can happen at leisure and message/awareness can be spread in other forms. Let's get most of the initial info IN *from various sources* not hinder the flow.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Nov 2015 08:57

Jhujar wrote:The Climate summit is supposed to be end of the month in Paris when many head of the states will be visiting there. Shudder to think if the Islamic terrorists succeed in repeating same then.

I had said as much in one of the many avatars of this thread and now I cannot seem to find it. So here goes a repost again.

In view of the Mohammadden Terrorist violence in Paris on Friday 13 November 2015 that has killed 150 plus, Government of India must carefully evaluate the security risk of attending United Nations Climate Change Conference to be held in Paris between 30 November and 11 December 2015. Evaluation regards issuing a Travel Advisory against travel to France should be made.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 08:59

Former CIA lady says

we are fighting the forces of Islamic Jihad to reamin free of Islamic law
Go after the ideology and not just the terrorists
Ideology comes from the Doctrine of Islam ~ 1.400 years ago which inspires Jihad. Draw the line between people and Doctrine
Cannot have enclaves (ghettos) anywhere in the world.

Deadliest attack in France since WWII, Monsieur H cancels G20 visit.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Nov 2015 09:00

Satya,

Definitions help draw boundaries and focus the discussion. A simple definition helps immediate focus. An expanded definition allows drawing broad analogies.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Nov 2015 09:01

X Posted from the Islamism thread (again?), comment by Spengler :

arun wrote:Excerpt from an Asia Times Jan 9, 2015 column by David P Goldman aka “Spengler” (?) that was reprinted after the Friday Nov. 13, 2015 Mohammadden Terrorist attack of Paris that killed 150+ people:

“The means by which France, or any other nation, could defeat the terrorists are obvious: to compel the majority of French Muslims to turn against the terrorists, the French authorities would have to make them fear the French state more than they fear the terrorists.

That is a nasty business involving large numbers of deportations, revocation of French citizenship, and other threats that inevitably would affect many individuals with no direct connection to terrorism. In the short term it would lead to more radicalization. The whole project of integration as an antidote to radicalism would go down the drain. The effort would be costly, but ultimately it would succeed: most French Muslims simply want to stay in France and earn a living.

There is no good outcome here, but the worst outcome would be the degeneration of France into a hostage state. We refuse to be hostages.”

From here:

Don’t mourn — neutralize: Spengler

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Nov 2015 09:02

"I don’t want to speculate at this point in terms of who was responsible for this," Obama stated

This despite news about terrorists blowing up in suicide vests and crowd saying the terrorists shouting AoA while shooting people. Amusingly, similar consideration wasn't given to Russian plane incident despite repeated requests to everyone by russians to not speculate till the investigation is over.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Nov 2015 09:05

per rt:

7 OUT OF 8 PARIS TERRORISTS DEAD IN SUICIDE BOMBINGS – PROSECUTOR

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Nov 2015 09:05

French Police forces reacted quite quickly. At same time they were surprised at the attack locations. Maybe were guarding more overt symbols like Eifel tower etc.

terrorists went for soft targets.
Sure they had help in
- recceing targets
- making suicide belts
- getting automatic weapons and bullets

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Nov 2015 09:05

Satya_anveshi wrote:
"I don’t want to speculate at this point in terms of who was responsible for this," Obama stated
This despite news about terrorists blowing up in suicide vests and crowd saying the terrorists shouting AoA while shooting people. Amusingly, similar consideration wasn't given to Russian plane incident despite repeated requests to everyone by russians to not speculate till the investigation is over.

One more reason why what our Prime Minister Narendra Modi only yesterday said at the UK Parliament needed saying:

“We must adopt a Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism in the UN without delay. There should be no distinction between terrorist groups or discrimination between nations”.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 14 Nov 2015 09:06

the same turds speculate about bombs that could have hit a Russian plane even when before the time when there was no confirmed evidence.

Ombaba dripping with hypocrisy here!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Nov 2015 09:06

4 hit teams are still at large if restaurant were hit and run

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 14 Nov 2015 09:11

im thinking it has to do with Friday the 13th too. Its a planned and organized attack. And the place has also been chosen deliberately. France. Not the Nordic / other countries. Should be interesting to see if the IS makes any noises now.

Million $$$ qns: Will France move towards a secret pact / talk / agreement with Ruskies? Will there be lessening of sanctions against Russia?

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 14 Nov 2015 09:11

apparently, terror has no religion - then it must be secular, no?

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 14 Nov 2015 09:12

secular terrorism happens only in India, isn't it?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Nov 2015 09:14

Hollande visited Bataclan music hall after his address to the nation. WashingtonPost juxtraposes his remarks at Bataclan with those made after Charlie Hebdo incident:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ge%2Fstory

Hollande then visited the Bataclan music hall, where armed assailants stormed the venue and more than 100 people died. His remarks:

“To all those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. Because when terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together and does not let itself be moved, even if today we express infinite sorrow.”

After the Charlie Hebdo attacks in January, he delivered this statement:

"But even though she is aware that she has faced up to this situation and her security forces are composed of men and women who are capable of bravery and courage, France knows that there will be more threats targeted against her."

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2015 09:15

The game went ahead in the stadium with few of the 80k people aware of the terror unfolding outside some of the stadium's exit.

Took 90 minutes for the stadium to be empty.

2 swedish among dead?

Seven attackers died by detonating suicide belts. 1 shot by police

CDG airport open.

Eurostar services running. Check in now 60 minutes prior to departure.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Nov 2015 09:20

vijaykarthik wrote:the same turds speculate about bombs that could have hit a Russian plane even when before the time when there was no confirmed evidence.

Ombaba dripping with hypocrisy here!

As a digression some other past and present US reactions to Mohammadden Terrorism in Paris:

Newt Gingrich:

Imagine a theater with 10 or 15 citizens with concealed carry permits. We live in an age when evil men have to be killed by good people
3:37 p.m. - 13 Nov 2015

Donald J. Trump:

Isn’t it interesting that the tragedy in Paris took place in one of the toughest gun control countries in the world?
3:59 AM - 8 Jan 2015

Donald J. Trump:

If the people so violently shot down in Paris had guns, at least they would have had a fighting chance.
2:28 p.m. - 7 Jan 2015

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 14 Nov 2015 09:20

Spinster wrote:Hope Canada, Germany, Sweden Norway are paying attention. They thought only SDRE will be targets of terror.
All attacks on SDRE sponsored by TSP are dress rehearsals to attack the west.

terror attacks are never confined to one country so that powers be can wink wink nod nod.

All democratic plural libertarian countries are vulnerable and will be attacked if unchecked.

This is moment truly to recall

"all for one, one for al " solidarity

recently A TSP origin litigant won a court case for complete burka in all public life..... against majority peoples opinion....

Don't hold your breath; these western countries never learn. If 9/11 couldn't convince US population to stop their govt from using terrorism as a tool of state policy, nothing will (just look at our resident redneck TSJones... and he's more informed than most Americans but still supports US ME and Afpak policy). The French are no different.

There will be some wailing and platitudes then back to supporting Saudi, Turkey, Pakistan, etc and all the various "good" Sunni terrorists they employ.