Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Peregrine »

SSridhar wrote:Edit on the TAPI Project,'Peace in the Pipeline' - The Hindu
However, the project faces the challenge of terrorism today. Unless the pipeline is secured from the Taliban that operates on both sides of the Durand Line, and from militant groups operating in Pakistan, it is hard to see how the TAPI dream can go beyond the groundbreaking ceremony. “By coming this far, we are overcoming a history of doubt and scepticism,” said Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani at the ceremony. Certainly, the fact that the TAPI, pushed by Turkmen President Gurbanguly Berdimohamedov, was able to bring leaders of three countries with relations as complicated as India, Pakistan and Afghanistan share is itself remarkable. To envisage a $10 billion project that traverses all three countries with all the bad blood between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Pakistan and India, is ambitious as well. If it can manage to loosen the tight bonds between terror groups and their sponsors in Pakistan, who ought to see where their own interests lie, it will achieve the impossible; something no amount of pressure, cajoling and threat from India, Afghanistan and other countries has been able to effect in Pakistan thus far. The only way the project will be actualised is if the leadership of all four member-countries don’t just dwell on the world that exists today, but the region as it can be: connected, cooperative, peaceful and prosperous.
Peregrine ji, read the comments.
SSridhar Ji :

Gurudevam - Nandri Swami!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by SSridhar »

War with Pakistan not an option, talks to end terror: Sushma Swaraj - PTI
Declaring that "war is not an option", government on Wednesday said it had decided to hold dialogue with Pakistan as it is the only way to remove "the shadow of terrorism".

External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj said in Lok Sabha that India and Pakistan decided to hold talks on terror when the Prime Ministers Narendra Modi and Nawaz Sharif met in Ufa (Russia) in July and then in Paris recently.

"We said we can talk so that terrorism comes to an end. So talks (between NSAs) took place in Bangkok where we discussed about terrorism. But one meeting will not bring a solution to all the problem. So we will continue the dialogue," she said during Question Hour.

When BJP member Ganesh Singh asked whether India was exploring options like the US did to hunt down terrorists like Osama Bin Laden, Swaraj said India is talking to Pakistan on the terrorist camps existing in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) as "war is not an option".

"We have decided that through talks we will resolve the issue of terrorism as talks is the way forward so that the shadow of terror is removed. But we want to make it clear; our Prime Minister has made it clear that talks and terror can't go together. Dialogue is drowned by the sound of explosion," she said.

Swaraj was speaking against the backdrop of recent decision to re-start the 'Comprehensive' dialogue with Pakistan under which various subjects, including terrorism and Jammu and Kashmir, will be discussed.

The External Affairs Minister said Modi had said there was a need for talks to resolve the issue of terrorism.

"The Prime Minister said let's talk on terror. For talks we will have to put in faith. There is no third party. Through talks, both the countries are trying to resolve the issue of terrorism," she said.

Swaraj said following Modi's conversation with Sharif in Paris on November 30 on the sidelines of climate change summit and in line with the Ufa understanding between the two leaders, the National Security Advisors of the two countries met in Bangkok on December 6.

"They held candid and constructive discussions. During my recent visit to Pakistan on December 8-9, the two sides decided that the NSAs will continue to address all issues connected to terrorism. The Indian side was assured of the steps being taken to expedite the early conclusion of the Mumbai trial," she said.

The External Affairs Minister said India will continue to take all necessary steps to safeguard the nation's security and safety of all citizens.

When asked whether India raised the issue of cross-border terrorism at the international fora like the UN, Swaraj said government actively discusses it in all its forms and manifestations in multilateral fora including UN, EU, SCO, ARF, BIMSTEC, SAARC, GCTF etc and bilaterally with several countries, including all P-5 countries in Joint Working Groups on counter terrorism.

She said the Prime Minister had raised the issue of the Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism (CCIT) which has been pending in the United Nations for adoption since 1996.

The Prime Minister has also discussed about the CCIT with several world leaders. "It is heartening that now we are getting support from many countries and we are hopeful that the CCIT resolution would be adopted in the UN soon," she said.


CCIT, a global treaty proposed by India in 1996, aims to ban terrorists and make it binding for countries to deny funds and safe haven to them.

Swaraj said India has taken up on a number of occasions bilaterally with Pakistan and also where required with international community New Delhi's concerns regarding cross-border terrorism.

"As a result of the government's consistent pursuit of the matter, several individuals including Hafiz Saeed and entities including Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaat-ud-Dawaa have been listed under the relevant provisions of the UNSC resolution No. 1267 which deals with Al Qaeda and related organisations," she said.

She said Pakistan had arrested the suspects for perpetrating the Mumbai terrorist attack of 2008 and a trial is underway in Pakistan in this regard.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Muppalla »

So the talks are all about India specific terror modules onlee. Everything else is media's mental circus
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by deejay »

I have caught a lot of TSP related news on twitter while tracking the Levant crisis with a view point not very dissimilar to that on BRF. For eg: Lying by TSPigs. Sample this

The accusation:
Omri Ceren ‏@cerenomri 53 minutes ago
Iran takes Shiites from Pakistan & sends them to fight Sunnis in Syria. That's triggering sectarian war in Pakistan.
Image

The clarification from a Shia who is not a Paki:
Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity 1 minute ago
Haidar Sumeri Retweeted Omri Ceren
This is simply a lie. #Pakistan's Shi'a were being murdered before the civil war in #Syria even started.

Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity now1 minute ago
Haidar Sumeri Retweeted Omri Ceren
#ShiaGenocide in #Pakistan is decades-long. The "fighting in #Syria" narrative is used to justify these massacres.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by KJo »

"war is not an option" is a stupid weak thing to say. War should always be one of the options in case the better options don't work out.
By saying such things, we just communicate to our enemies that we are weak SDRE darpok yindoos.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by shiv »

KJo wrote:"war is not an option" is a stupid weak thing to say. War should always be one of the options in case the better options don't work out.
By saying such things, we just communicate to our enemies that we are weak SDRE darpok yindoos.
Look at it in another way. Saying that we will wage war sounds good - but if war is not waged after a couple of provocations then the government will look stupid and really really darpok.

The minister is saying what the government thinks and the government thinks that war is not an option at least at this time - although that clarification would have been useful. Wait for a couple of terrorist attacks and then ask if war is still not an option.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

"War is not an option" means we won't go to war until it is no longer optional.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Peregrine »

KJo wrote:"war is not an option" is a stupid weak thing to say. War should always be one of the options in case the better options don't work out.
By saying such things, we just communicate to our enemies that we are weak SDRE darpok yindoos.
KJo Ji :

Sir I would opine that the statement "But we want to make it clear; our Prime Minister has made it clear that talks and terror can't go together. Dialogue is drowned by the sound of explosion," she said. makes it clear to the Cwapistanis that it is for the Cwapistanis to decide if they want to "Talk Talk" or get manifold response to their border firings!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Anujan »

deejay wrote:I have caught a lot of TSP related news on twitter while tracking the Levant crisis with a view point not very dissimilar to that on BRF. For eg: Lying by TSPigs. Sample this

The accusation:
Omri Ceren ‏@cerenomri 53 minutes ago
Iran takes Shiites from Pakistan & sends them to fight Sunnis in Syria. That's triggering sectarian war in Pakistan.
Image

The clarification from a Shia who is not a Paki:
Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity 1 minute ago
Haidar Sumeri Retweeted Omri Ceren
This is simply a lie. #Pakistan's Shi'a were being murdered before the civil war in #Syria even started.

Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity now1 minute ago
Haidar Sumeri Retweeted Omri Ceren
#ShiaGenocide in #Pakistan is decades-long. The "fighting in #Syria" narrative is used to justify these massacres.
There was a rumor that LeJ leader Malik Ishaq was dispatched because he was days away from pledging allegiance to ISIS. The market attack apparently was conducted by LeJ. They have made a few noises about Assad.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Falijee »

lDisgraceful and shameless use of the APS tragedy by Chen One to promote mid season sales. Burn in hell C1!
Paki outraged at "Chini-blother" company trying to "cash in" on the Army Public School tragedy on Dec 16, 2014 and for which the aam Pushtuns are paying the price !

Meanwhile,they lost half of their country on Dec 16, 1971 due to Pakjabi atrocities and none of the culprits have been taken to task:
Believing in one’s own propaganda: Newspapers of Dhaka and the war of 1971
Last edited by Falijee on 17 Dec 2015 03:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

At this very moment, there is a US Senate Hearing on 'US-Pakistan Relations', and it is highly critical of Pakistan.

It is STREAMING LIVE ON C-SPAN3


Go to http://www.c-span.org and find it playing on the front-page, or in the upper-left where it says "Channels", pick C-SPAN3.

DIRECT LINK : http://www.c-span.org/video/?401999-1/h ... tions&live

You can even watch it from the beginning, at the above link. (There was a brief recess for a vote, after which the Senators sat down and continued.) It has been VERY CRITICAL OF PAKISTAN, so far........ Let's see if it transfers into policy rationalization. The Pak Nuclear Program talk from the Atlantic Council this past Monday, I thought, was proceeding from the premise of legitimizing Pakistani nuclear program, in exchange for "escalation control" and CBMs (i.e. Confidence Building Measures); which is HORRIBLE FOR INDIA, IMO.

America seems keen to tie-up loose ends before total geostrategic collapse of "Pax Americana" (or is that "Paks Americana")?

One thing is for sure: All responsible national leaders on earth, must consider the possibility of a Donald J. Trump "presidency". Already, his "ascendency" (while stooping sooooo low), speaks to the 'American Mindset', and potentially of the directions politicos will lead them in. (Actually, more like "follow them in", because America hasn't had such a leader in a long, long time -- only panderers.)
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Falijee »

Explosives from Pakistan seized by forces in Kabul: Afghan spy agency
KABUL:
Afghan security forces have seized and destroyed two tonnes of ammonium nitrate, an ingredient of improvised explosives, foiling dozens of potential bomb attacks, the intelligence agency said on Wednesday.
The National Directorate of Security, the country’s main intelligence agency, said the material was hidden in 20 bags sent by the Haqqani network from neighbouring Pakistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by rsingh »

partha wrote:http://www.dawn.com/news/1226723
Pakistan surprised by its inclusion in military alliance
What is that saying about beggars and choosers :rotfl: :rotfl:

can't wait for the day when barbaria orders nukes from Pakis and Pakis be like "we are surprised onlee that such an agreement exists"
It seems Jahil sharif knew it all along (his recent visit to KSA and USA) it was only Bakistani B-Government that was kept in dark.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by member_29218 »

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:At this very moment, there is a US Senate Hearing on 'US-Pakistan Relations', and it is highly critical of Pakistan.

It is STREAMING LIVE ON C-SPAN3


Go to http://www.c-span.org and find it playing on the front-page, or in the upper-left where it says "Channels", pick C-SPAN3.

DIRECT LINK : http://www.c-span.org/video/?401999-1/h ... tions&live

You can even watch it from the beginning, at the above link. (There was a brief recess for a vote, after which the Senators sat down and continued.) It has been VERY CRITICAL OF PAKISTAN, so far........ Let's see if it transfers into policy rationalization. The Pak Nuclear Program talk from the Atlantic Council this past Monday, I thought, was proceeding from the premise of legitimizing Pakistani nuclear program, in exchange for "escalation control" and CBMs (i.e. Confidence Building Measures); which is HORRIBLE FOR INDIA, IMO.

America seems keen to tie-up loose ends before total geostrategic collapse of "Pax Americana" (or is that "Paks Americana")?

One thing is for sure: All responsible national leaders on earth, must consider the possibility of a Donald J. Trump "presidency". Already, his "ascendency" (while stooping sooooo low), speaks to the 'American Mindset', and potentially of the directions politicos will lead them in. (Actually, more like "follow them in", because America hasn't had such a leader in a long, long time -- only panderers.)
Astonishing stuff!

Never heard American diplomats so pi$$ed off at Pakistan.

Dana Rohrabacher at around 8.20 "They are treating us like suckers and they should because we are!"
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by ramana »

Primus did you watch the undercard and regular Republican Candidates debate on CNN?

Lots of recognition of Islamist jihadi terrorism as threat.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by KLNMurthy »

shiv wrote:Sushma Swaraj's statement - in case anyone is interested. Pakistani media posted on here are in English, and as such easier to read by an English reading audience than Sushma Swaraj's statement in Hindi. The former hets more mileage, although it shouldn't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DswNaYW-dEQ
I am quite impressed by Hon. Sushma Swaraj, very classy, professional and knowledgeable, in the face of savage and infantile provocation. EAM is in good hands with her.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 16 Dec 2015 22:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

KLNMurthy wrote:
partha wrote:Now that Moody Govt has finalized bullet train project, expect a few op-eds in Paki press with the following themes -
A few news headlines like -
1) Chinese Railway company to conduct feasibility study of Karachi-Lahore bullet train project; promises $100B loan at 0% interest.2) Water and power resources minister Khwaja Asif says Pakistan will build mini bullet trains by 2022.India should solve cashmere.
Indian moving from Bullock Cart to Bullet train while Paki move from Birth in Drain to Bullet in Brain life in Fast Lane.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

ramana wrote:Primus did you watch the undercard and regular Republican Candidates debate on CNN?Lots of recognition of Islamist jihadi terrorism as threat.
Only Trump have the guts to drop big one on Islamists.He is not interested in small Salami but in big wham bam slam to remove this Islamist Jam.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by KLNMurthy »

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:At this very moment, there is a US Senate Hearing on 'US-Pakistan Relations', and it is highly critical of Pakistan.

It is STREAMING LIVE ON C-SPAN3


Go to http://www.c-span.org and find it playing on the front-page, or in the upper-left where it says "Channels", pick C-SPAN3.

DIRECT LINK : http://www.c-span.org/video/?401999-1/h ... tions&live

You can even watch it from the beginning, at the above link. (There was a brief recess for a vote, after which the Senators sat down and continued.) It has been VERY CRITICAL OF PAKISTAN, so far........ Let's see if it transfers into policy rationalization. The Pak Nuclear Program talk from the Atlantic Council this past Monday, I thought, was proceeding from the premise of legitimizing Pakistani nuclear program, in exchange for "escalation control" and CBMs (i.e. Confidence Building Measures); which is HORRIBLE FOR INDIA, IMO.

America seems keen to tie-up loose ends before total geostrategic collapse of "Pax Americana" (or is that "Paks Americana")?

One thing is for sure: All responsible national leaders on earth, must consider the possibility of a Donald J. Trump "presidency". Already, his "ascendency" (while stooping sooooo low), speaks to the 'American Mindset', and potentially of the directions politicos will lead them in. (Actually, more like "follow them in", because America hasn't had such a leader in a long, long time -- only panderers.)

The stupidity and cowardice of American establishment knows no bounds. I hope election-year politics will stall any decision on pakistan, because any decision by Americans about pakistan is bound to be wrong (or "not even wrong" as they say).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by KLNMurthy »

Primus wrote:
Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:At this very moment, there is a US Senate Hearing on 'US-Pakistan Relations', and it is highly critical of Pakistan.

It is STREAMING LIVE ON C-SPAN3


Go to http://www.c-span.org and find it playing on the front-page, or in the upper-left where it says "Channels", pick C-SPAN3.

DIRECT LINK : http://www.c-span.org/video/?401999-1/h ... tions&live

You can even watch it from the beginning, at the above link. (There was a brief recess for a vote, after which the Senators sat down and continued.) It has been VERY CRITICAL OF PAKISTAN, so far........ Let's see if it transfers into policy rationalization. The Pak Nuclear Program talk from the Atlantic Council this past Monday, I thought, was proceeding from the premise of legitimizing Pakistani nuclear program, in exchange for "escalation control" and CBMs (i.e. Confidence Building Measures); which is HORRIBLE FOR INDIA, IMO.

America seems keen to tie-up loose ends before total geostrategic collapse of "Pax Americana" (or is that "Paks Americana")?

One thing is for sure: All responsible national leaders on earth, must consider the possibility of a Donald J. Trump "presidency". Already, his "ascendency" (while stooping sooooo low), speaks to the 'American Mindset', and potentially of the directions politicos will lead them in. (Actually, more like "follow them in", because America hasn't had such a leader in a long, long time -- only panderers.)
Astonishing stuff!

Never heard American diplomats so pi$$ed off at Pakistan.

Dana Rohrabacher at around 8.20 "They are treating us like suckers and they should because we are!"
Rohrbacher was a major Khalistan supporter back in the day. Wonder what his thoughts are now.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by gakakkad »

Rohrabacher is a typical yankee yahoo onlee...
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Virupaksha »

thats just a yak yak chat for public consumption. Tomorrow they will 234324 billion dollars for their ally. Wake me when that stops. That yak yak is for gullibles like us nris who think yak yak is all that matters.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

gakakkad wrote:Rohrabacher is a typical yankee yahoo onlee...
He is friend of fiend J Dayal of JesuISIS.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

Sindh Assembly adopts resolution seeking to curtail Rangers’ powers
( Hear the rumbling roars of coming Paki Ci-evil war)
KARACHI: The Sindh Assembly on Wednesday passed a resolution asking for checks and conditions on Rangers’ special powers to raid and arrest suspects.The resolution, which was approved by the House, was criticised by opposition members who claimed the government wanted to seriously curtail the paramilitary force’s powers.The resolution states that Rangers will only have powers with respect to the following:Target killing;Extortion;Kidnapping for ransom;Sectarian killing
“That any person, who is not directly involved in terrorism and is only suspected of aiding and abetting terrorists or by way of terror financing or facilitating terrorists shall not be placed under preventive detention under any law without prior written approval of the Government of Sindh i.e Chief Minister. It is clarified that in case a person is suspected of the above, cogent reasons with complete evidence justifying such preventive detention shall be provided to Government of Sindh, which will, based on the available evidence, approve or reject such proposal of preventive detention.”“The Pakistan Rangers Sindh shall not raid any office of Government of Sindh or any other Government Authority without prior written approval of the Chief Secretary, Government of Sindh.”Opposition members, including those from the Mutahidda Qaumi Movement, Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI), PML-F and the PML-Q, tore apart their copies of the resolution and staged a walkout from the assembly to register their protest against the PPP-led provincial government.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

More Pure Islam Coming
Years of ideological subversion led to dismemberment of Pakistan
(Yaum E Surrender lesson)
LAHORE – Years of “Ideological Subversion”, a major factor that played an important part in dismemberment of Pakistan on the this tragic day in 1971.Ideological subversion launched by hostile countries’ intelligence services on the target nations to change the perception of reality in a bid to destabilize the nations for achieving their interests in a particular country or region.Bezmenov who defected to Canada in 1970 made the revelations about KGB’s major role in the fall of Dhaka in the light of his experiences and information he had being the key propagandist of the ex-soviet union’s dreaded secret service while posted in India till he crossed over to the west.In today’s Pakistan the name of the game is the same but players have been changed in the due course of history because of the changes in the world political order.“Former KGB targeted sections in East Pakistan were civil rights activists, intellectuals, academia, mass circulation newspapers, politicians, rich film-makers and leftist leaning military leaders. The agency had successfully recruited Communist and Leninist sympathizers in all the targeted sections to use them on a mass scale to advance ideological subversion operations,” said Bezmenov in a lecture to students of a western university studying the subject of international relations focusing states’ tactics to practice shadow strategies of diplomacy.The radicalization on the mass scale to launch militancy came at a later stage when the practitioners of ideological subversion successfully subvert larger groups of a nation through demoralization techniques and confusing their views in their existing system of governance, he added.“We in assistance to our strategic partner India to protect our interests in the region launched a slow but effective tactic under the name of ideological subversion to break the target nation from within and we succeeded,” he said.
Making a shocking disclosure about the fate of the perpetrators of so-called agents of change under soviet-sponsored revolutions, he told the audience that most of them listed for execution after the success of revolution. The first team never led KGB plans ahead. Sheikh Mujeeb was assassinated by his Marxist army generals who were the new Marxists.In more exposures in that lecture, Bezmenov said, “Awami League leaders were educated in high party schools in Moscow as part of the ideological subversion plan. The Mukti Bahani guerillas were trained at KGB training facilities in Kremlin and Tashkent to achieve the final target of the ideological subversion, armed rebellion in East Pakistan.”“The small arms like Kalashnikov assault rifles, rocket propelled grenade launchers and ammunition were sent to Dhaka University students in diplomatic boxes from former soviet consulate in Calcutta (India). The weapon boxes were labeled with printed material for the university,” Bezmenov told the students.Intelligence community members told the paper on the issue, “Ideological subversion is on our country under new labels and names and we have neutralized some of the hostile countries’ facilitators which are creating sleeper cells for anti-state elements.”
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Abhay_S »

50 Shades of green

http://www.dawn.com/news/1226625/jobs-and-jihad



ONE thing is known about Tashfeen Malik: she is a murderer who, along with her husband Syed Rizwan Farook, shot and killed 14 people in San Bernadino, California. In a United States riven with paranoia following the attacks in Paris, she has been elevated to a terror mastermind, the lethal Pakistani bride who did not simply participate in the massacre but planned it and egged her husband on to do it.

The consequences of her acts and the suspicions birthed from them will of course be borne by others. A mere 10 days after the attacks, The New York Times reported officials saying that the only way future ‘terror brides’ could be prevented from entering the country was to extend the scrutiny applied to female applicants of K-1 and other visas. It is quite likely that these instructions have already been issued to US consular posts.

Those of course are the actions being taken by the US counterterrorism establishment, which has promptly taken the superficial aspects of Tashfeen Malik (and notably not her husband) and is now presenting them as wide-ranging truths regarding Muslim women and terror plots.

One aspect of Tashfeen Malik’s life that has not received attention is the fact that she was raised in a Saudi expatriate home, with a father who became notably more conservative after his move to that country. This fact, highlighted in the few reports filed from Pakistan but largely pushed to the sidelines in American discourse, may in fact present the most crucial clues regarding global labour movements, the import of societal conservatism, and its consequent escalation into a murderous rage pinned to misguided zealotry.

The large-scale extraction of oil in Saudi Arabia led to a seismic shift in the regional labour market. Suddenly Pakistani workers, including Tashfeen Malik’s father, were in demand to toil in Saudi Arabia’s oil fields, delivering the black gold that would make the kingdom one of the richest countries in the world. The trickle-down effect was and continues to be crucial to Pakistan’s labour export market, bringing in several billion dollars in remittances — the largest amount sent back from any country.
There is a constant war of ideologies between the subcontinent’s live-and-let-live brand of Islam and its Saudi adversary.

The impact was visible in all Pakistani communities that were sending their sons to Saudi Arabia; houses built on remittances, well-appointed and ostentatious, stood in remote villages as emblems of the bounty their owners were digging out of the faraway desert land. As years passed, more left and when their iqamahs ran out or when they had earned enough or when their sons could earn in their stead, they returned.

It was not just money they brought back with them. Years in conservative Saudi Arabia also meant years immersed in Wahabi doctrine, whose literalist premises judged their own understanding of religion as inadequate and inauthentic. The Saudis are, after all, the guardians of Islam’s holiest places, their desert the religion’s birthplace; they must know better. So the logic went, pressed further by the fact that the Saudis were also their bosses, whose greater largesse and untouchable superiority inspired an equal pressure in Pakistanis to do as their Saudi masters did.

So this strand of religion came back to Pakistan on the backs of oil workers. The tale of Tashfeen Malik’s father is typical: a man at odds with the family he left behind, judging them for their lesser devotions. It happens all the time, in every Pakistani village.

Pakistan, its job market still dependent on the export of labour to Saudi Arabia, cannot say ‘no’ to what its workers bring back. Nor does it have the power to stem the flow of worker-borne religious conservatism.

The consequence is a constant war of ideologies between the subcontinent’s live-and-let-live brand of Islam — more tolerant and less combative, reared as it was in an environment of cosmopolitanism and diversity — and its Saudi adversary. The latter is winning, Pakistanis can tell Americans; the impetus for ‘correction’, where self-styled ideologues harass, pester and sometimes kill others they believe supportive of a less conservative strand of Islam, is commonplace in the country. Their ranks have been bolstered by new generations raised in Saudi-financed religious schools, Saudi-funded charities and a host of other instruments of Saudi evangelism.

It is all old news in Pakistan; conservatism bred and fed to become the bedding for something worse, the carnage of young children killed in a school, whose anniversary falls today, and tens of thousands of other acts of terror that will not be remembered but have nevertheless devastated and eviscerated.

It is disturbing to see these connections and causes ignored in America, whose cosy relationship with Saudi Arabia renders it mute and resolute against its ambitions of reform in the Islamic world.

Saudi Arabia is bombing the militant Islamic State group, the latest flavour of Islamic extremism that has installed itself as the world’s new bogeyman; this fact somehow becomes a reason to forget all the other trajectories of terror that it cultivates and promotes.

Pakistan needs jobs and Saudi Arabia provides them; in exchange, it is not just the toiling bodies of young Pakistani men that are offered up to squeeze the oil from the kingdom’s largesse but also their minds. As they work in an environment where women are never seen, where tolerance is not necessary because everyone has been homogenised, altered, filed and made to fit a constricted and literal version of religion, they develop also a hatred of the tolerance they may have once known at home. Pakistan is remembered not simply as poor but also less pious.

Making it in Saudi Arabia, then, requires looking down on Pakistan, and the consequences of imported conservatism are visible everywhere, from Karor Lal Esan to Karachi. The Americans, sadly, are too far away to see, too preoccupied in dissecting visible enemies, garage-made bombs and ‘terror brides’ to note the complicity of the friends who birthed them.

The writer is an attorney teaching constitutional law and political philosophy.

rafia.zakaria@gmail.com

Published in Dawn, December 16th, 2015
Vayutuvan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Vayutuvan »

Jhujar wrote: Indian moving from Bullock Cart to Bullet train while Paki move from Birth in Drain to Bullet in Brain life in Fast Lane.
Eminently tweetable. :rotfl:
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 17 Dec 2015 00:32, edited 1 time in total.
Vayutuvan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Vayutuvan »

Mrs. rafia zakaria seems to be teroristan's apologist. Live and let live? what about Pakistani terror directed at India? 1971 was the direct result of East Pakistanis considered inferior. This is nothing new. Pakistani islam is as intolerant as Saudi A.'s. They should listen Indian muslims and Indian/Iranian sufees.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by member_19686 »

vayu tuvan wrote:Mrs. rafia zakaria seems to be teroristan's apologist. Live and let live? what about Pakistani terror directed at India? 1971 was the direct result of East Pakistanis considered inferior. This is nothing new. Pakistani islam is as intolerant as Saudi A.'s. They should listen Indian muslims and Indian/Iranian sufees.
You mean these one's?

https://twitter.com/RevolutionMonk/stat ... 7499483136

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... s?from=mdr

These sufis?

https://twitter.com/Rjrasva/status/608720132374790144

Don't see any difference, may be Indians should spend less time engaging in sophistry about some "Indian Islam" that doesn't exist except in the figment of their imagination.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by nirav »

Got to save the ads for posterity :mrgreen: :rotfl:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by shiv »

Moderate secular Pakistan in 1971 but the "dream and hallucination" bit is funny
Image
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by g.sarkar »

partha wrote: A few news headlines like -
1) Chinese Railway company to conduct feasibility study of Karachi-Lahore bullet train project; promises $100B loan at 0% interest.
2) Water and power resources minister Khwaja Asif says Pakistan will build mini bullet trains by 2022.
3) Pakistan can not build the bullet train as the evil Hindus are taking the Bijli out of the water that they release. There is not enough Bijli left to run bullet trains.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by shiv »

KLNMurthy wrote:
shiv wrote:Sushma Swaraj's statement - in case anyone is interested. Pakistani media posted on here are in English, and as such easier to read by an English reading audience than Sushma Swaraj's statement in Hindi. The former hets more mileage, although it shouldn't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DswNaYW-dEQ
I am quite impressed by Hon. Sushma Swaraj, very classy, professional and knowledgeable, in the face of savage and infantile provocation. EAM is in good hands with her.
I was particularly impressed by a Tweet of hers that showed an image of her sitting with Nawaz Sharif. Her note was something like this. "Paid a call to PM of Pakistan. Note that it was not a bilateral meeting, which would have had the flags of both countries. The image only had Paki flags.

To me this not only shows intelligence, but the smartness to understand what others will see and say and the pre-emption of chootiya comments
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Prem »

shiv wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: I was particularly impressed by a Tweet of hers that showed an image of her sitting with Nawaz Sharif. Her note was something like this. "Paid a call to PM of Pakistan. Note that it was not a bilateral meeting, which would have had the flags of both countries. The image only had Paki flags. To me this not only shows intelligence, but the smartness to understand what others will see and say and the pre-emption of chootiya comments
Watch her old You Tube video of how she handled J&k student couple of years ago. She seems to have good grasp of issue, history and know the only right solution is dissolution of Paki Pardushan /Pollution for South Asian collusion to make social, economic deal,sense and progress.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Anujan »

shiv wrote:
Moderate secular Pakistan in 1971 but the "dream and hallucination" bit is funny
Quaid said....

But but... he made that "secular" speech in the Parliament (copy of which nobody can find)!!!!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by K Mehta »

On a completely unrelated note to soothis including the miskeens in the COalition Of TerroristS (COOTS),
Remittances to al bakistan from the brotectors of the faith have increased.

From tribune. bakistan
Inflows from Saudi Arabia were the largest source of remittances in July-November. They amounted to nearly $2.4 billion in the five months, up 11.2% from the corresponding period of the last year.

Remittances received in July-November from the United Arab Emirates (UAE) increased 12.3% to almost $1.8 billion on a year-on-year basis. Inflows from the UAE had registered the largest increase (26.1%) from any major remittance-sending country in 2014-15, SBP data shows.

In the last five months of the current fiscal year, remittances from Dubai have surged 45.8% year-on-year.

Remittances from Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries, excluding Saudi Arabia and the UAE, clocked up at $960.5 million in July-November, which is 11.8% higher than the remittances received from these countries in the same months of the preceding fiscal year.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan wrote:But but... he made that "secular" speech in the Parliament (copy of which nobody can find)!!!!
In fact, AIR was asked to record the proceedings and a few years back, Pakistan formally requested India to hand over Jinnah's secular speech. AIR searched their archives and could not find the speech at all!

There was no such speech is the truth. AoA
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Post by Falijee »

FLOW CHART OF THE PAKI DECISION MAKING PROCESS RE UMMAH LED (SUNNI ONLY ) ANTI-TERROR COALITION:

1. Bad Sharif gives assent to Saudi King on Paki participation.
2. Good Sharif/Paki F.O. not kept in the loop by Bad Sharif
3. Saudis (after all, they are the ma-baap of the Pakis!) jump the gun and name Pakis as participants in Anti-Shia Terror Coalition
4. Paki F.O. "expresses surprise" in inclusion
5. Pakistan F.O. "mulls" over decision
6. Bad Sharif comes "clean" and orders participation


7.Pakistan confirms participation in Saudi-led anti-terror alliance :mrgreen:
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