Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2015 17:40

The probability of a terrorrist attack is definitely very high, when one considers the following which I X-post from the IS thread.

JuD activists leaving group to join ISIS in Pak, 8 arrested - PTI

Mumbai attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed- led Jamaat-ud-Dawah's activists are joining ISIS and eight of them were arrested by intelligence agencies who raided a hideout of the terror group in Pakistan's Punjab province.

"The arrested ISIS militants were earlier the activists of Hafiz Saeed's Jamaat-ud-Dawah," Dawn newspaper reported, citing intelligence reports and officials.

A team of personnel from intelligence agencies and Punjab Counter-Terrorism Department raided a house on a tip off on the outskirts of Sialkot, some 120 kms from here, in wee hours yesterday and arrested eight members of ISIS which has yet to 'openly' declare its presence in Pakistan, officials said.

"The suspects could not offer any resistance as the commandos did not give them a chance," a CTD source said.

He said a good quantity of weapons and explosives, and hate literature have been recovered from the house.

"The suspects had sworn allegiance to al-Baghdadi and joined ISIS in Daska tehsil of Sialkot district in June."

One of the recruiters - Abu Akasha - had facilitated contacts between the suspects and Pakistan national Abu Muavia Salfi, who was in charge of Pakistani militants in Syria, according to the report.

They said Waqas aka Rizwan, also member of the ISIS from Sialkot, had been killed in clashes with the Syrian forces.

Interrogations have revealed that ISIS chief Abu-Bakr Baghdadi had appointed Hafiz Saeed Khan as the group's Emir in 'Khorasan' (areas comprising Iran and some parts of Afghanistan) and proposed him as Emir for Pakistan too.

Earlier, there were reports that Saeed Khan got killed.

JuD has denied the report of its members joining ISIS, saying it has no links with the Middle Eastern group and it was against the outfit's philosophy.

"We strongly deny that any of our current or former member is associated with the ISIS. It seems to be conspiracy to link JuD with the ISIS," JuD spokesman Yahya Mujahid said.


This is now bad news for India. The terrorists are like a monster that demands continuous action. They hate idling without work. They also constantly seek out a more brutal outfit. IS fits these demands currently. Earlier too, when LeT terrorists left the organization for the more brutal 'bad Taliban', the LeT and ISI devised the 26/11 attacks to keep the remaining jihadists interested in continuing with the LeT.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby deejay » 29 Dec 2015 18:05

TTP faction has struck at Mardan. Present score 23. Premature fireworks for a Happy New Year in Pukiland.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1018113/blast-near-nadra-office-in-madran/

THE EXPRESS TRIBUNE > PAKISTAN > KP & FATA
At least 23 killed, 56 injured in suicide blast at NADRA office in Mardan

By Our CorrespondentPublished: December 29, 2015

At least 23 people were killed as a suicide bomber blew himself up outside the main gate of the NADRA office in Dohsera Chowk in Mardan on Tuesday.

A splinter group of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Jamatul Ahrar, has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Rescue 1122 officials said at least 21 people have been killed and 28 injured. “A motorcyclist rammed his bike into the main gate of the NADRA office,” DPO Mardan said.

Further, DIG Mardan Saeed Wazir, said the bomber was on a motorcylce and tried to enter the complex. “He stopped and blew himself up and fortunately was not able to enter the premises.”

FC soldier killed, two others injured in Mastung IED blast

According to the bomb disposal squad, 8 kilogrammes of explosives were used to carry out the attack.

Ali Khan, a doctor at the district headquarters hospital confirmed the death toll and placed the number of injured at “more than 40″. Further, hospital administration have said it is becoming difficult to manage the injuries.

According to initial reports, the blast occurred near the gate of the office and the death toll is feared to rise. Eight injured are in critical condition and are being shifted to Peshawar for treatment, DPO Mardan added.

Human bodies and shattered glass are strewn across the blast site. The area has been cordoned off and the injured are being shifted to Mardan Medical Complex.

The NADRA office is located on the link road that connects Charsadda to Mardan. The blast occurred at a time when scores of people were lining up to have their CNICs made.

More than 27,000 civilians and security forces personnel have died in terror attacks since 2004, according to the South Asia Terrorism Portal.

This is a developing story and will be updated accordingly.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby eklavya » 29 Dec 2015 18:36

This is very funny (listen to the video):

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports ... h-teacher/

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Dec 2015 19:00

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pm-m ... 58209.html

Intelligence agencies have issued an alert regarding terror attacks by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT) at various locations in the country during New Year.

Intelligence agencies have warned that Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Parliament building, Army headquarters at South Block and Indian nuclear facilities may be on the radar of the terror group.

The report accessed by India Today Television says that around 20 terrorists may have entered the country from across the border to carry out suicide strikes at the biggest targets possible.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby CRamS » 29 Dec 2015 19:15

SSridhar wrote:** Intel agencies issue a threat alert to all States & U/Ts ** TimesNow

An LeT group from Pakistan is on the way


SsJi, how do you read Manoj Joshi. He touches upon this possibility and more (is he a dove or a hawk or a realist?)

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ant-risks/


Modi, despite his professedly muscular approach towards Pakistan, is following policy lines set by him and Atal Bihari Vajpayee: bear whatever Pakistan throws at you with fortitude, and press on with engagement with a view of “normalising” Pakistan.



And of course, customary equal equal


Powerful forces remain ranged against an India-Pakistan entente: the Pakistan Army, Islamist groups like Lashkare-Taiba, the Taliban’s Haqqani and other assorted bad guys. Sceptics abound in India as well as the antediluvians of RSS, who still speak of “Akhand Bharat”, when Saarc and Safta are already on the table.


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby abhik » 29 Dec 2015 19:18

SSridhar wrote:This is now bad news for India. The terrorists are like a monster that demands continuous action. They hate idling without work. They also constantly seek out a more brutal outfit. IS fits these demands currently. Earlier too, when LeT terrorists left the organization for the more brutal 'bad Taliban', the LeT and ISI devised the 26/11 attacks to keep the remaining jihadists interested in continuing with the LeT.

I'd think terrorists switching from paki government groups to international jihad organizations would be a good thing for India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Dec 2015 19:33

TFT: "Terrorist Moms: Police unveils a large network of women jihadists"
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/terrorist-moms/

“The family structure of modern Jihadists and the role of their women had largely been hidden from the eyes of law enforcement officials so far,” Raja Umar Khattab said, adding that it took him several years of investigation to expose the network.

“The women preachers first give lectures on the basics of Islam to affluent women, and then use their influence to stress the importance of establishing a Muslim caliphate,” he said. “Those who are receptive are made part of their circle.”

“It is alarming that such a large number of women are involved in helping in the planning and financing of terrorism,” one investigator said. “It is equally alarming that highly educated men, including many who studied abroad, are being indoctrinated to carry out such acts.”
- See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/terro ... ejQlH.dpuf

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby abhijitm » 29 Dec 2015 20:21

Two dozens pakis dispatched by Talibs. Wait for paki media blaming modi and doval.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 29 Dec 2015 20:23

SSridhar wrote:This is now bad news for India. The terrorists are like a monster that demands continuous action. They hate idling without work. They also constantly seek out a more brutal outfit. IS fits these demands currently. Earlier too, when LeT terrorists left the organization for the more brutal 'bad Taliban', the LeT and ISI devised the 26/11 attacks to keep the remaining jihadists interested in continuing with the LeT.

Sridhar - the Pakistani army, HuM and LeT have behaved the same way. The Taliban were just as brutal. And just today looking through my archives I found a video of Pakistan army men shooting a group of adolescent boys dead.

The way I see it - what does Islam recommend for kafirs? Death. What do all these groups have in common? Delivering death. So I do not judge ISIS as being any worse. They are the same. But we must not be the same. We must give it back. That's all. What is the difference between brutal death and gentle death?
Last edited by shiv on 29 Dec 2015 20:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 29 Dec 2015 20:26

abhik wrote:I'd think terrorists switching from paki government groups to international jihad organizations would be a good thing for India.

Absolutely. The west need to see jihad - considering their nonchalance when millions were killed in East Pakistan using the same methods as ISIS - only larger numbers. My big worry is that Pakis are not joining ISIS but ISIS is being blamed so that the Paki army gets more aid. The Paki army is ISIS with nukes.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_22733 » 29 Dec 2015 20:27

shiv saar,

If ISIS had nukes they would have used them or threatened to use them on Unkil/EU by now. Bakis are far more rational than the ISIS wrt to the west. From our POV, all these are same.

Added later : ofcourse, IMVVVHO :)

Added later: I do wish Bakis become more like ISIS towards Unkil due to blothel support. Infact what we need to do is to use the blothel to use Bakis to threaten Unkils interests. TNW (not thermo but tactical or tiny) is a step in the right direction IMO. It does not impact our security calculus but completely upsets unkils apple cart, to the point where everyone from Motormama Fair and Froggy Battam inc is doing Analysis and Rudaalis on.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 29 Dec 2015 21:09

LokeshC wrote:shiv saar,

If ISIS had nukes they would have used them or threatened to use them on Unkil/EU by now. Bakis are far more rational than the ISIS wrt to the west. From our POV, all these are same.

Lokesh with respect this is a "If my aunt had a dick.." argument. Pakistanis have threatened India many times over and India has been deterred by Pakistan. If ISIS gets nukes the west will cock up and sit quiet

The West will make peace with ISIS the day they get nukes or when the find out that nuclear capability is nigh, in the same way they have made peace with Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan. As long as they are confident that the other party has no nukes they will do an Iraq on them. That is what they are doing now to ISIS.

I am truly sorry to see this forum going down this route. Just over a decade ago the Taliban were touted as the most brutal threat to civilization. Forumites would make anxious posts about what India would do if the Taliban attacked and how we must help the US fight them. Now it is ISIS. Tomorrow it will be something else. But ultimately what Spinster has been saying on BRF for nearly two decades (in his various avatars) is correct - "A nuke in every backyard will ensure world peace' And if Pakistani nukes reach ISIS hands that will be good news for the entire world. The west will then wake up and smell the coffee that has been brewing for several decades now.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_22733 » 29 Dec 2015 21:15

shiv garu,

I am not subscribing to ISIS being the biggest threat to civilization :). All shades of green on the west of India are an existential threat to India and my interests lie in only figuring out what would be the best course we could take for achieving shaanti.

What I hoping would happen is the same thing you and other gurus have been saying here for long, which is the Baki backers being threatened by the same snakes they bred for their own interests. Threatened and scarred by their own Frankenstienian monster that is Bakistan. Bakenstein :)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Falijee » 29 Dec 2015 21:23

Paki "Sarkari Maulvis" Go Physical Over Who Is More Green :mrgreen:
Maulana Sherani, Ashrafi grab one another’s collars ‘over Ahmadis’ at CII meeting
ISLAMABAD (Staff Report) – A meeting of the Council for Islamic Ideology (CII) turned violent as a scuffle broke out between Maulana Mohammad Khan Sherani and Maulana Tahir Ashrafi.(this one has a "drinking problem"; did he "go physical" under the influence )
The meeting was called to discuss various matters including sectarian issues.
In Pakistan politics, disagreements are usually "settled" by either fistfights or gunfights :mrgreen:
Sources said the participants were discussing the status of Ahmadis under the Constitution of Pakistan (what is there to discuss; they have already been declared "outcasts" from the Ummah !)when council chairman Maulana Mohammad Khan Sherani and member Maulana Tahir Ashrafi, who is also chairman of the Pakistan Ulema Council, entered into an argument that later turned personal and they reached out for each other’s collars.
Sources quoted an eyewitness saying that Ashrafi had first lunged at Sherani and grabbed him by his collar as the latter called him ‘an alcoholic.’ ( was his action "Sharia Compliant" Participants in the meeting had to intervene to diffuse the situation.

CII is a constitutional body that advises the legislature whether or not a certain law is repugnant to Islam, in particular to the Quran and Sunna.
Good that these "sarkari maulvis" are gainfully employed, receiving Paki government dole without fail every month, indirectly funded by the Saudi Government, instead of making trouble like the maulana from the Lal Masjid Building in Isloo, who is alleged to be in league with ISIS :mrgreen:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 29 Dec 2015 21:23

Ironically ISIS is composed of the same bullshit that Al Qaeda was composed of. Shapeless. Formless. And Islamic. If you force Islam into a border you get Pakistan. When it breaks out of the border you get Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_22733 » 29 Dec 2015 21:26

That is the nature of Islam. It was formed by a Caravan Raider and a shady business guy (PBUH). The code of conduct therefore is aimed at perfecting the "Caravan Raiding" side and cult-indoctrination.

So here is my controversial theory: Islam == The cult of caravan raiders == Kabila == loot and scoot.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

Postby Peregrine » 29 Dec 2015 21:31

Aadarniya Mahilao aur Upasthit Sajano,

Like a majority of posters on this Thread I am a “totally convinced” supporter of Modi Ji.

In his policy towards Cwapistan Modi has exhibited a Sagacity of possibly the nth degree by Doubling or even Tripling the Cross Border Fire response with the Cwapistani Terrorist Rangers as well as the Army.

However Modi Ji’s “seemingly” treading the “Peace with Cwapistan” path is not so much under coercion from the DDM or the Opposition or the Wagha Kandle Kisser Brigade but iMO it is due to the “Bijnes community.”

If one goes back into History especially the time under the Muslim Invaders one will find that there were large expeditions to invade, plunder, rape and sodomise vast Areas of India.

These Expeditions need heavy amounts of “Finances” i.e. Money to arm, feed, pay and provide the Men in the Expedition force.

Who financed the various Delhi etc. Sultanates? The Money Lenders.

As an example JINDALS are working on a project to Transport Millions of by Trucks from Afghanistan VIA Cwapistan and are working hard to “lure” the Cwapistani Powers that be to allow these Trucks access through Cwapistan.

Don’t the JINDALS know about the Hijacking and Destruction of US Defence Forces Oil Tankers, Container Carrying Trucks etc.?

May be a Forumite will explain what is the Driving Force for Trade with Cwapistan and with Afghanistan and CARs through Cwapistan.

IMO trading through Cwapistan is like making Cwapistanis to guard the Ladies and Children of one’s Family.

I hope Forumites will think and put their views on this Forum

Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Anantha » 29 Dec 2015 21:33

peregrine ji namakar; After a long time... Still remember your words from my trip to your land...

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Abhay_S » 29 Dec 2015 22:24

Pakis still in the cold war era. :mrgreen:

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2015/12/29/comment/pakistan-2015-and-modis-visit/

Nothing in the stance of Narendra Modi, ever since he came in power, indicate love for Pakistan. Another friend, the learned Barrister Iftikhar, commenting on Modi’s visit wrote, “It is Putin’s stroke. Saudi Arabia’s nonsensical dramatics of making an alliance that includes Pakistan gave rise to this. Russia has to stop the impression of widespread grouping against Bashar al Assad. The speed with which India made overtures within the span of few weeks and Russia showering goodies at India can only lead me believe this.” Yet another message says, “When Modi in his speech a few hours before in Kabul accuses Pakistan indirectly of creating trouble in Afghanistan, then what future are we looking at? Modi’s outlook towards us remained unchanged just before he landed in Lahore. Therefore, his overtures, by his visit and body language in Lahore, are absolutely the opposite. So what can one conclude from this backdrop?”

Let us also bear in mind that Putin is likely to visit Pakistan in February 2016 ‘for the groundbreaking ceremony of $2 billion LNG pipeline(who the heck is paying phor thij??) project from Karachi to Lahore as confirmed by Russian Energy Minister.’ (Trade Today, December 5, 2015)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Abhay_S » 29 Dec 2015 23:03

Peregrine wrote:Aadarniya Mahilao aur Upasthit Sajano,

Like a majority of posters on this Thread I am a “totally convinced” supporter of Modi Ji.

In his policy towards Cwapistan Modi has exhibited a Sagacity of possibly the nth degree by Doubling or even Tripling the Cross Border Fire response with the Cwapistani Terrorist Rangers as well as the Army.

However Modi Ji’s “seemingly” treading the “Peace with Cwapistan” path is not so much under coercion from the DDM or the Opposition or the Wagha Kandle Kisser Brigade but iMO it is due to the “Bijnes community.”

If one goes back into History especially the time under the Muslim Invaders one will find that there were large expeditions to invade, plunder, rape and sodomise vast Areas of India.

These Expeditions need heavy amounts of “Finances” i.e. Money to arm, feed, pay and provide the Men in the Expedition force.

Who financed the various Delhi etc. Sultanates? The Money Lenders.

As an example JINDALS are working on a project to Transport Millions of by Trucks from Afghanistan VIA Cwapistan and are working hard to “lure” the Cwapistani Powers that be to allow these Trucks access through Cwapistan.

Don’t the JINDALS know about the Hijacking and Destruction of US Defence Forces Oil Tankers, Container Carrying Trucks etc.?

May be a Forumite will explain what is the Driving Force for Trade with Cwapistan and with Afghanistan and CARs through Cwapistan.

IMO trading through Cwapistan is like making Cwapistanis to guard the Ladies and Children of one’s Family.

I hope Forumites will think and put their views on this Forum

Cheers Image



The JINDAL angle is being played in Paki media as another example of Evil Yindoo baniya colluding with Sharif Biradhran's family business. my guess is if this thing pans out it will be #ThankYouRaheelSharif and if it doesnt it will be 'GO Nawaz GO'

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 30 Dec 2015 00:07

How did Muhammad start asserting his difference from others in Mecca after his conversions?

Raiding caravans.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby JE Menon » 30 Dec 2015 00:15

svinayak,

Please attribute quotes. Otherwise, someone may quote you thinking it was your original writing. This

"Political sciences as such have the tendency to be quite state-centered. That makes it hard for them to grasp other actors in international politics, such as transnational or international social movements . Not all actors that have to be considered as political direct all their actions towards a state - there are also anti-state and a-state actions. Nevertheless, related to international affairs, it will be hard to find another concept than the state - given that international affairs are defined as affairs between states."

is from here: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Do_yo ... al_affairs - stated by Philipp Altmann of the Central University of Ecuador.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_22733 » 30 Dec 2015 00:21

ramana wrote:How did Muhammad start asserting his difference from others in Mecca after his conversions?

Raiding caravans.


shiv wrote:Ironically ISIS is composed of the same bullshit that Al Qaeda was composed of. Shapeless. Formless. And Islamic. If you force Islam into a border you get Pakistan. When it breaks out of the border you get Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS.



PBUH was also very interpretation-friendly wrt the religion. Verses appeared very conveniently and very appropriately to the situation and were interpreted very liberally to mean completely different things on different days. This tradition to this day continues.

There have been stable Islamic kingdoms, however they had a unifying Pre-Islamic culture that kept them together. This is true of stable islamic kingdoms of today. Rudra garu has a wonderful post on this a few pages back.

However, the boundaries of "modern" post WWII middle east are mostly artificial, which means they contain more than two conflicting cultural pre-Islamic civilization that drives them apart. With each side trying to interpret Islam their way and in the process becoming hardcore caravan raiders themselves.

In such a case only someone ruthless like Gaddafi or Saddam can hold everything together, and they end up being almost everything a "pure" Islamic person would hate: A Alcohol drinking, pork eating westernized secular who is almost always a military dictator.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 30 Dec 2015 00:44

Abhay_S wrote:The JINDAL angle is being played in Paki media as another example of Evil Yindoo baniya colluding with Sharif Biradhran's family business. my guess is if this thing pans out it will be #ThankYouRaheelSharif and if it doesnt it will be 'GO Nawaz GO'

Abhay_S Ji:
Many thanks your comments as above. One does not take cognizance of the Cwapistani Media but when this Article – Posted on this Thread at 06:00 on 26 Dec 2015 which I am posting in Full – is from the Economic Times then one should be forgiven for having one’s hackles raised considerably :

Sajjan Jindal, the new RK Mishra? Did Sajjan Jindal play secret Santa to Narendra Modi-Nawaz Sharif?


MUMBAI: Two tweets sent the national chatterati into a frenzy on Christmas Day.

The first was from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who decided to take a surprise detour on his return home from Russia and Afghanistan to Lahore and wish his counterpart Nawaz Sharif on his birthday.

Then, an hour later, steel and power conglomerate JSW Group's boss Sajjan Jindal too took to the micro-blogging site to announce, "In Lahore to greet PM Navaz (sic) Sharif on his birthday".

Jindal's was a seemingly innocuous tweet, but it appeared to betray a deeper secret. It came days after journalist Barkha Dutt's revelation in her new book that the billionaire business tycoon had last year facilitated a secret and deniable, hourlong meeting between both leaders in his hotel room in Kathmandu on the sidelines of the SAARC summit. Before that, ET had reported in June last year how Sharif had dropped in at Jindal's home for tea when he visited Delhi for Modi's swearing-in ceremony.

Is Sajjan Jindal the new RK Mishra — a one-time corporate confidant of prime ministers of India and Pakistan who was used for back-channel negotiations in an otherwise fractious and convoluted relationship?

Mishra, a veteran journalist with the Patriot and Link newspapers and the founding chairman of Reliance's Observer Research Foundation, was considered close to the group's late founder Dhirubhai Ambani. Mishra was believed to have been used by the Vajpayee establishment during the height of Kargil war for track-II talks with Islamabad.

So more than a decade later, is Sajjan Jindal the new 'facilitator' for Indo-Pak dialogue?

While he could not be reached for comment despite multiple attempts to contact him on his cellphone, he seemed to have come in the crosshairs of political sniping. Congress spokesperson Anand Sharma, reacting to Modi's surprise stopover, said the prime minister had used the services of a "vested private business interest" to fix the meeting in Lahore.

But independent experts said using businessmen as go-between was nothing new.

"Being a man with significant business interests himself, Nawaz Sharif has great rapport with several businessmen. But this is not the first time businessmen have been used by political leaders as conduits to convey messages to their counterparts. Indira Gandhi did so. So did Narasimha Rao and even (Atal Bihari) Vajpayee," said Sanjaya Baru, director for geo-economics and strategy at the International Institute of Strategic Studies. Baru was formerly a media adviser to prime minister Manmohan Singh.

"Internationally, too, there have been several precedents. Between the US and Russia, even at the height of their frosty relationship, business leaders played a key role. Similarly, Mao Tse-tung (Zedong) maintained relationship with US businessmen even before diplomatic relationships between two countries were established."

FAMILY FRIENDS FOR GENERATIONS

To be sure, both Jindals and Sharif family have been personal friends for generations with similar business interests in steel.

Nawaz Sharif 's father Muhammad Sharif started his business empire in 1939 with a small steel mill — Ittefaq Ltd, which over the years has transformed itself into one of the largest steelmaking units there. Sugar is the other big Sharif family business comprising more than 24 factories that are currently managed by Nawaz Sharif 's nephew Hamza and son. Incidentally, both were present to greet Modi on Friday at the Sharif residence on the outskirts of Lahore.

"They have been personal friends for at least two generations. It got cemented further in the past decade. Both families and even their kids know each other well and both have bases in London where they have met several times," said a friend of the Jindal family who did not want to be quoted.

Personal rapport apart, industry observers say strategic business interests too could be influencing a desire to play midwife to the incipient bonhomie.

A grouping of Indian steelmakers, called Afghan Iron & Steel Consortium (Afisco) that is led by state-run SAIL along with JSW, JSPL and Monnet Ispat, has been negotiating with the Pakistani government for right of way to transport iron ore by road from Hajigak iron ore deposits in Afghanistan's Bamiyan province to Karachi, before it is shipped to ports in western and southern India. This is a much cheaper alternative than using Russia as a transit point and is the key to the commercial viability of these mining concessions. Using Iran could be an alternative, but steel industry officials say the Pakistan route is most economical from a cost perspective. Unless this issue is resolved, the memorandum of understanding signed between both sides will not move forward. Moving this Iron Ore via Iran obviates the danger of Cwapistani sponsored Terrorists and possibly Lower Port charges for Indian Cargoes shipped at Chabahar. The Distance from Bamiyan to Chabahar is about 150 miles more than that to Karachi as the CROW FLIES but could be another 100 Miles of so by road.

As per the agreement with the Afghan government, Afisco has to build a 2-mt steel plant in Afghanistan to be allowed the right to export iron ore from Hajigak mountains. The ferrous content of the ore is said to be in the high sixties, which is considered to be high quality.

The Indian consortium was selected as preferred bidder for three of the four iron ore blocks in Hajigak mines that hold about 1.8 billion tonne iron ore.

Sajjan's younger brother Naveen Jindal runs Jindal Steel & Power (JSPL), which holds a 16 per cent stake in the Afisco consortium, identical to JSW Ispat. Their brother-in-law Sandeep Jajodia controls Monnet Ispat & Energy, which holds a 4 per cent stake in Afisco.

I would maintain that just as in the case of the Iran-India and Turkmenistan-India Natural Gas Pipelines are considered a "NO-NO" so this Afghanistan Ore should avoid Pakistan like the plague.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 00:49

Why does Jindal Steel want rahdaari through Pakistan?
Jindal steel has big huge plants in Eastern India, Oman. In eastern India, the plants are in Chhatisgarh, Odisha and Jharkhand in the iron ore/coal belt.
The iron ore mines in afghanistan are due west of Kabul, almost same latitude.
If they want to ship Iron Ore from Afghanistan to India, ideally they should need rail transportation.
If they want to ship it to Oman, then they need to ship it out of Chahbahar, because Sohar, Oman, is almost right across the gulf, right in front of Chahbahar!

The question is, why go the Pakistan route, if Chahbahar is being made ready? Lack of Railway?

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 30 Dec 2015 00:51

Anantha wrote:peregrine ji namakar; After a long time... Still remember your words from my trip to your land...

Anantha Ji :


You have a very good memory!

As I have said earlier "Does the Scorpion Stop to Sting, does the Skunk Stop to Stink?". This also applies to Cwapistanis in General and Pakjabis in Particular.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 30 Dec 2015 00:58

Gagan wrote:Why does Jindal Steel want rahdaari through Pakistan?
Jindal steel has big huge plants in Eastern India, Oman. In eastern India, the plants are in Chhatisgarh, Odisha and Jharkhand in the iron ore/coal belt.
The iron ore mines in afghanistan are due west of Kabul, almost same latitude.
If they want to ship Iron Ore from Afghanistan to India, ideally they should need rail transportation.
If they want to ship it to Oman, then they need to ship it out of Chahbahar, because Sohar, Oman, is almost right across the gulf, right in front of Chahbahar!

The question is, why go the Pakistan route, if Chahbahar is being made ready? Lack of Railway?

Gagan Ji:

The present state of Cwapistani Railways is appalling to say the least. Possibly this ore might be transported by Rail to the Cwapistan Border which "could, might, possibly" join the CPC's Railway System being build by the Chinese.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 01:07

Shivji,
I wish you hadn't post this bit.
Shiv wrote:To repeat what I suggested earlier - Modi has also insulated himself against any Pakistani (or Paki friendly Congress) accusation that he is somehow anti-Pakistan by nature. In Indian secular minds Pakistan=Muslim=Indian Muslim. So anti-Pakistan is anti-Muslim in Congress vocabulary. That accusation cannot stick now.


While this may well be the case, I have reservations with this line of thinking.

This visit showed the world that Modi-India is perfectly willing to engage with the civilian PM of Pakistan.
The difference from ALL PAST GOIs is that a formalized parallel channel has been opened with the Pakistan Army as well. And that too at the NSA level!

That means, that the pakistan army now should not need to signal to GoI using terrorists as they have done for the last 60 years!
If they persist in doing this, then they no longer have any valid excuse left. The problem is that people around the world, including in India have considered terrorism coming out of Pakistan as a valid political tool in use by their fauj.

If India and the Pakistan Army are interacting at the NSA level, there should be no further use of terrorism right?
That also makes Nawaz Sharif and Other future PMs of Pakistan much more relieved !!! The thing that caused coups in Pakistan, was that the civilian PM would make peace overtures to India, and would be taken out by the fauj.

Nawaz prolly understands what a big thing this is! He is off the hook! All the problem areas are now between Modi-Doval and Raheel-Janjua onlee! And Nawaz couldn't be more grateful. Sir creek is stuck? Blame the fauj. Siachen is stuck? Blame the fauj.

Otherwise, this visit was just a social / goodwill visit.
Please do notice, that the Indian delegation went prepared to Raiwind / Jati Umrah with the PM, NSA, Foreign Secy and 8 or 9 others. On the Pakistani side, Nawaz, Shahbaz and one other relative/minister, other than family members. The pakistanis were not prepared as usual for any discussions onlee.

Now after this, if there is a terrorist strike, then the Pak Fauj is well going to get it. Somehow I get the feeling that the gloves are going to come off on India's side - no more covert responses. There might be escalation, which the pakistani fauj is no way suited to match, and there will be severe loss of H&D for them.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 01:19

Now people can't complain if a Brahmos lands on Aabpara in response to a terror strike in India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_23365 » 30 Dec 2015 01:29

Gentle Rakshaks one thing Modi govt trying to drive home is Kashmir is not the issue anymore its PoK. If there is no change in govt in 2019 TSP will be on back-foot trying to save PoK or will be ready to negotiate price for giving it back. Even in Ram Madhav's encounter with Aljazeera he pointed out disputed territory is Pok.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 02:23

In fact, there is now a new move on Art 370.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 30 Dec 2015 02:33

Latest on the AFISCO Story as on 27-11-2015 :

Hajigak Iron Ore

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 02:54

Peregrine ji
Dunno, but maybe Jindal wants to set up a greenfield steel plant in Gujarat or further down south on the western coast of India, so that sourcing iron ore from Hajigak makes economic sense.

Iron ore will need railways. Road will be uneconomical.
Afghanistan has virtually no rail network to speak of.

AFISCO was supposed to be setting up a 2 million annual steel plant in Afghanistan as part of the deal. Read the article in more detail.

The indian investment might include a railway line from Kabul/Hajigak to Chahbahar, passing close to Kandhar
Last edited by Gagan on 30 Dec 2015 03:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 02:57

Some Paki anchors were also discussing a little fact below:

Reliance wanted an assurance from the Pakistani PM that their refinery will not be targeted, so that insurance costs would be kept down. So a request went out from PMO (I think MMS) to the Pakistani PM/President (I think Zardari), who provided the letter.

This is unverified. But the news might have originated from ISPR since the source is Pakistani media.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_22733 » 30 Dec 2015 02:59

Gagan wrote:That means, that the pakistan army now should not need to signal to GoI using terrorists as they have done for the last 60 years!
If they persist in doing this, then they no longer have any valid excuse left. The problem is that people around the world, including in India have considered terrorism coming out of Pakistan as a valid political tool in use by their fauj.

If India and the Pakistan Army are interacting at the NSA level, there should be no further use of terrorism right?
That also makes Nawaz Sharif and Other future PMs of Pakistan much more relieved !!! The thing that caused coups in Pakistan, was that the civilian PM would make peace overtures to India, and would be taken out by the fauj.

Nawaz prolly understands what a big thing this is! He is off the hook! All the problem areas are now between Modi-Doval and Raheel-Janjua onlee! And Nawaz couldn't be more grateful. Sir creek is stuck? Blame the fauj. Siachen is stuck? Blame the fauj.

Otherwise, this visit was just a social / goodwill visit.
Please do notice, that the Indian delegation went prepared to Raiwind / Jati Umrah with the PM, NSA, Foreign Secy and 8 or 9 others. On the Pakistani side, Nawaz, Shahbaz and one other relative/minister, other than family members. The pakistanis were not prepared as usual for any discussions onlee.

Now after this, if there is a terrorist strike, then the Pak Fauj is well going to get it. Somehow I get the feeling that the gloves are going to come off on India's side - no more covert responses. There might be escalation, which the pakistani fauj is no way suited to match, and there will be severe loss of H&D for them.



I agree with this assessment. I think Modiji and Ganja have a personal working relationship and all this drama would have been probably planned out to put the fauj in its place.

So Ganja can now work on being loyal secretary and chowkidar and the fauj becomes directly responsible for its strategic actions (aka terror).

Modi has formalized Ganjas position as an ineffective leader and at the same time indirectly send message to fauj saying "if you ever try something funny, you will see a very different response from us. TTYL :)".

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Vipul » 30 Dec 2015 03:04

Gagan wrote:Some Paki anchors were also discussing a little fact below:

Reliance wanted an assurance from the Pakistani PM that their refinery will not be targeted, so that insurance costs would be kept down. So a request went out from PMO (I think MMS) to the Pakistani PM/President (I think Zardari), who provided the letter.

This is unverified. But the news might have originated from ISPR since the source is Pakistani media.



I remember reading in the newspapers about this. Track Thoo thug RK Mishra was involved in this.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 03:41

It looks like the diplomutts in Nai Dilli pulled off these small coups, which were considered halal by the CON-gress system, and patted themselves in the back for doing so.
The Congress ecosystem is a 0.5 four-father of Pakistan

Ack-Thoo !

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Dipanker » 30 Dec 2015 03:47

Gagan wrote:Peregrine ji
Dunno, but maybe Jindal wants to set up a greenfield steel plant in Gujarat or further down south on the western coast of India, so that sourcing iron ore from Hajigak makes economic sense.

Iron ore will need railways. Road will be uneconomical.
Afghanistan has virtually no rail network to speak of.

AFISCO was supposed to be setting up a 2 million annual steel plant in Afghanistan as part of the deal. Read the article in more detail.

The indian investment might include a railway line from Kabul/Hajigak to Chahbahar, passing close to Kandhar


Iron ore deposits in Goa and Bellary/Karnatka would be much better option for such a steel plant.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2015 03:48

Here is this piece of info from wiki-chacha
Rail transport in Afghanistan

Currently there is a rail service between Mazar-i-Sharif in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan in the north.[1] The Afghan government expects to have the line extended to Kabul and then to the eastern border town of Torkham, connecting with Pakistan Railways. The work is carried out by China Metallurgical Group Corporation (MCC) and is expected to be completed by 2014.[2] The project was paid for with a $165 million grant from the Asian Development Bank.[3] Another 330 km rail way project between Mazar-i-Sharif and Turkmenistan was launched in June 2013.[4] India is finalising a plan to construct a 900-km railway line that will connect Chabahar port in Iran, being built with Indian help, to the mineral-rich Hajigak region of Afghanistan


So there is a race between China and India to bring out resources from Afghanistan. Each is building their own rail and road networks. In addition, this new gambit by Modi is like a Knight's move on the chessboard. It is jumping over current pieces and the usual stake holders and powers-that-be in Pakistan are confused.

The question is, how to disinsentivise a Pakistan attack on India's Af-Iran economic corridor.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby SSridhar » 30 Dec 2015 05:58

Shiv, I am not distinguishing between IS & LeT or AQIS for that matter. All I said was that once LeT cadres start leaving it in droves because they are bored without jihadi adventure, the LeT & ISI will be forced to think of an attack on India just to retain their hold on the flock & reduce attrition. We have seen this before. And, this gels in eith the alert from the intel agencies. I am not comparing IS & LeT.


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