Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

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partha
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby partha » 04 Jan 2016 12:22

arun wrote:
ramana wrote:NaMo gives 72 hours warning:

http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2016/ ... 88a9e69883


Wait and watch.

Source is unnamed.

What constitutes “ultimatum” can mean different things to different people :wink: .

Don't keep your hopes high though. According to Zee News report, the ultimatum is about cancelation of FS talks! I am sure Pakis will be happy with the cancelation. Few months down the line, the talks will resume and the whole circus will repeat.

But I hope this time it's different. Let's see.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby svenkat » 04 Jan 2016 12:28

'Pathankot attackers received training in Pakistan'

Credible information that attackers received training from a professional armed force in Pakistan: top govt. source

12:34 p.m.: A top govt. source says, 'Pathankot attackers were well-trained, well stocked and more lethal than 26/11 Mumbai attacker

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Chinmayanand » 04 Jan 2016 13:18

TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) tweeted at 2:10 PM on Mon, Jan 04, 2016:
BREAKING- Punjab police arrests two men, seizes Pakistan sim card and weapons marked with Pakistan markings
(https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/683 ... 37312?s=02)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby arun » 04 Jan 2016 14:29



In line with the Chinese saying “Kill the chicken to scare the monkey”, is this the much talked about "befitting reply" from our BJP led Government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi for the Pathankot attack?

NSA Doval cancels Beijing visit to deal with Pathankot attack
Last edited by arun on 04 Jan 2016 14:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Screambowl » 04 Jan 2016 14:31

The Shias are currently upset with Sunnis. As their Shia cleric was executed by Saudis. This is an opportunity.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby deejay » 04 Jan 2016 14:38

SS ji, another data point of ISIS infiltration in Pakjab:

Terrormonitor.org ‏@Terror_Monitor now2 minutes ago
#PAKISTAN
Security Forces Arrested 42 Suspected #ISIS Militants Inc. #ISIS #Islamabad Chief Amir Mansoor In Punjab Province: Law Minister.
Last edited by SSridhar on 04 Jan 2016 14:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: X-posted this in the IS thread

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby RajeshA » 04 Jan 2016 14:41

Seven Jawans have put down their lives for the nation! Jai Hind!

But what does the loss of their lives really mean for India's well-being! I would say a lot!

A terrorist strike by Pakistan and its non-state minions on India was more a question of when and not if. There is an unsavory certainty to this. And Modi, Doval & Parrikar would have known it as well.

So the question is really how well they have prepared for this!

That has mostly two aspects - defense preparedness and diplomatic standing. I don't think political will is an issue in Modi's case.

NaMo's visit to Pakistan, despite the high-risk to his life, was meant to solidify diplomatic standing. Paris attacks, Trump's candidacy and NaMo's broad-based equation with world leaders are the backdrop of our diplomatic standing today viz-a-viz Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Chinmayanand » 04 Jan 2016 15:12

56' postpones FS meet. NSAs meet to precede FS meet.
Befitting reply indeed.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2016 16:10

"Befitting". Are we bespoke tailors?

Snake-Oil Singh gave his "befitting reply" to Pak...er,we won't do-as Uncle Sam is forcing me to say,anything in Baluchistan,even though we're doing nothing there! "If there's nothing wrong,still fix it", adage.

Now Rajnath Singh is giving his "befitting" reply. Let's wait and see whether his reply is "businesslike."

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby vanand » 04 Jan 2016 16:30

RajeshA wrote:That has mostly two aspects - defense preparedness and diplomatic standing. I don't think political will is an issue in Modi's case.

But there will be political angle too, the present government need to show our steps to have a cordial relationship failed so that we can oppose any international pressure from US.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Ashokk » 04 Jan 2016 16:32

Our inward looking policy has cost us dearly by Lieutenant General Prakash Katoch (retd)

'What India has failed to acknowledge is that sub-conventional war is the name of the game and irregular forces have emerged with greater strategic value over conventional and even nuclear forces, and reliance purely on conventional force and diplomacy is grossly inadequate,' says Special Forces veteran Lieutenant General Prakash Katoch (retd).

Having suffered Pakistan's proxy war for the past several decades, it was unlikely that the Pakistani military would not respond with alacrity to the display of Modi-Nawaz bonhomie at Lahore recently.

We should heed Ayesha Siddiqa on the military's stranglehold on Pakistan both for the enormous money it makes through corporate-private business ($20.7 billion in 2007) and the power it wields in every segment including defining the foreign and defence policies of Pakistan.

After the Taliban strike at the Army School Peshawar on December 16, 2014, Siddiqa maintained that India remains enemy number one. In order to retain the power and money, the Pakistan army must remain in confrontation with India and Afghanistan.

The Pakistan military is getting more and more radicalised, some even calling themselves 'Allah's Army' in private conversation rather than the Pakistani army. Steeped in teachings of Zia-ul Haq and Pervez Musharraf, there is little chance of change -- remember Musharraf saying, 'Even if the Kashmir issue is resolved, jihad against India will continue.'

That is why you find little progress in punishing the 26/11 perpetrators, Zaki-ur Rehman getting royal treatment, Hafiz Saeed acting chief advisor to the ISI and observed in areas across the LoC, and Sartaj Aziz making public statement that 'Pakistan should not engage in war with those terrorists whose target is not attacking Pakistan.'

Moreover, the recruiting base for both the military and terrorist organisations are common and many sections of the Pakistani administration are aligned with terrorist organisations, many politicians also having won elections with terrorist support.

The Pakistan military is also buoyed with the continuous support it receives from both the US and China despite her generating terror. The latter has actually become an asset in an era where big powers are using proxies to further their own national interests.

China is happy as long as the Pakistan-Taliban links protect her commercial and strategic interests in South Asia while Xinjiang remains manageable. The brief capture of Kunduz by the Taliban and the continued Taliban presence in the Badakshan region has forced Russia to increase her military presence in Badakshan.

The ISIS that captured seven districts in Nangarhar province in Afghanistan (west of Peshawar) and spread to other regions have all gone from Pakistan. So is the re-establishment of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan with Musharraf recently chanting, 'We trained the Taliban and sent them to fight against Russia. The Taliban, (the) Haqqani (network), Osama bin Laden and (Ayman al)-Zawahiri were our heroes.'

The US that forced Pakistan to join the GWOT (the Global War On Terror) under threat of otherwise being 'bombed into the stone age' could well threaten Pakistan similarly to shut her proxy wars, but is not doing so because Pakistan is an important link in America's Great Game in South Asia.

Ironically, Pakistan is of similar value to China. The near free hand that Pakistan has got in Afghanistan has made the Pakistani army bolder in expanding her strategic depth.

Against the above backdrop, the terrorist strike at the Pathankot IAF base was no sundry action. It was in all probability planned by the ISI in minute detail as were the 26/11 Mumbai terror strikes.

The infiltration routes perhaps are repeatedly used considering the massive infusion of narcotics in rural Punjab as prelude to the ISI bid to revive militancy in Punjab. This has been ongoing for the past few years with obvious conduits within our own side of the border.

It may be recalled that when a question was raised how a dhow could travel from Karachi to Mumbai for the 26/11 strike, M J Akbar wrote that this was happening almost every week -- bringing in narcotics and duly linked to the nexus in Mumbai.

The same situation prevails in Punjab. So the infiltration was perhaps through a well oiled route and the ease with which a Toyota Innova was summoned on the telephone from Pakistan for the party to be picked up after crossing the International Border speaks volumes.

Subsequent telephone intercepts of the conversations of the terrorist with their handlers in Bahawalpur is similar to what happened during 26/11. While the 26/11 terrorists were trained by Pakistani marines under the Karachi Project, the Pathankot terrorists were most likely trained by Pakistan's Special Services Group at a Jaish-e-Mohammed camp in Bahawalpur.

The IAF base was a good target to be chosen because of its expanse, the periphery of which cannot be manned at all times physically, there being some permanent pickets with balance covered through patrols.

It is easy to cut the perimeter fence at any unattended point, dig under the fence or even shortcircuit an electrified fence.

With the manner in which the operations are continuing even on the third day, the possibility of Pakistani regulars being part of the group cannot be ruled out. During 2012-2013, Pakistan trained 20 Mujahid battalions to operate as Taliban/terrorists.

The involvement of Pakistani regulars in terrorist attacks inside Afghanistan, particularly in Kabul, has been established by the National Directorate of Security, Afghanistan. In India, Pakistan used Northern Light Infantry battalions disguised as civilians during the Kargil conflict of 1999.

As for our response to the Pathankot terror strike, it certainly was inadequate given the advance warning received, as reported. The hijacking of the superintendent of police itself should have raised the alarm and movement of the vehicle tracked/assessed.

Was the move of reserves timely, was their deployment requisite, and can Defence Security Corps personnel be better equipped are perhaps issues that must be examined.

The message from the Pakistani military is explicit; you can continue with India-Pakistan talks, but we will continue with our proxy war while the Foreign Office can continue to say we condemn terrorism and Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism.

It does not matter that the frustration of the Pakistani army never having won a single war is part of the motivation. The fact is that terrorism is the cheapest option to keep India on the boil and keep her security forces stretched. This is not a new narrative, but has been on for past three decades plus.

What India has failed to acknowledge is that sub-conventional war is the name of the game and irregular forces have emerged with greater strategic value over conventional and even nuclear forces, and reliance purely on conventional force and diplomacy is grossly inadequate.

Our inward looking policy has cost us much more dearly. We need to speedily build credible deterrence to Pakistan's proxy war, getting the handle on Pakistan's fault-lines.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Raja Ram » 04 Jan 2016 16:42

Let the smoke and fog clear; till then restraint is advised. United Jihad Council claim does not seen credible for the following reason

1. The Kashmiri terror machine almost exclusively operates in the valley and never steps out
2. They kind of weapons carried and tactics deployed indicate a far more professional adversary. This is as per our dork media reports from "sources" but supported by HS Presser reference
3. The extent of operation suggests that the conspiracy was far too big to be done by UJC. It had to have local network to support. Extent of weapons suggests that the terror team was provided logistics support. Maybe a drop of heavy weapons was done prior or in parallel through drug network with or without local player's knowledge
4. Fact that aerial assets were engaged to ascertain whereabouts indicate that this mission had a specific target of hitting high profile air assets

All of the above indicate a level of planning and training that is beyond UJC or even JeM (this group has been groping in the dark for a while and LeT was the chosen ones). I suspect both are false flags to give deniability for a direct covert attack by Paki SSG or some such unit. If they had got through and destroyed a few aircraft, the real identity would have been leaked. Now the attempt is to cover up and blame it on first internal groups in India and if that does not stick lay it on UJC and say it was local Kashmiris and if that too fails lay it on Non-state actor in the shape of a near dormant JeM.

It looks like too early to come to conclusions but the hallmark of the usual tactical bravado and recklessness of PA brass is evident and the accompanying complete misreading of possible Indian response. The fifth column in India have been alerted to use this as a means to get at Ajit Doval as he is the most feared individual in Pakistan today.

It may have a lot to do with is happening in Baluchistan and Sindh and the fact that there is now an operational relationship in place on defence and intelligence sharing with Afghanistan. It could also be a pre-emptive strike to signal to MAD not to come after prized assets such as Hafiz Saeed or Dawood or Tiger or Lakhvi.

It is also clear that this was a response that has been planned well in advance and not linked to the PM's visit to Pakistan. It preceded that given the ever tightening space for the Pakistani Army that MAD doctrine was creating on them. They must have decided sometime post UAE visit to do something like this.

Looking back, the ISI and its masters might have put in motion several modules to do this activity and Gurdaspur was one such and this is the next. The fact that they were going after Punjab is to open a new front with drugs being used to soften the territory. MAD trio have their work cut out with a corrupt partner in a sensitive state, a completely compromised to foreign powers Opposition in the Congress and a sold out cabal of media and other Lutyens elite to do their bidding.

To make it worse there is a lot of lethargy that has been creeping into the Armed Forces as well with an over reliance on a bloated command structure that is also restrained by lack of resources and direction. The HM has been working hard on the para military structures instilling accountability, providing resources, improving discipline all of which have taken a beating for the last decade. They are still not on track.

This overall context must be pieced together here in this forum. I would recommend that we do that instead of getting over irritated by this statement or that or this talks or that. A nation state and a government has to move across a wide variety of options. What is more important is to see how national interests are being advanced and not so much if one move looks out of place.

I still maintain that in the trio of MAD that is supported by a fairly able and competent cabinet members such as Manohar Parrikar, Sushma Swaraj, Nirmala Seetharaman and the lot the overall strategic intent and direction will not let India down. Yes Pathankot has been to some extent a wake up call to them in that when it comes to Pakistan, there is no real chance of peace with that entity in the normal way of dispute resolution between nation states. But the larger question remains, Does this leadership have the clarity of thought in recognizing Pakistan and peace cannot co-exist, one has to go? Or are they still prisoners to the Twin Myths that has held Indian leadership in its thrall for more than six decades namely

1. A peaceful, stable united Pakistan is in the best interest of India
2. There is not alternative to talks with Pakistan as it is a nuclear neighbour

Only time will tell the answer to these questions. Just the usual ramble. Take it for what it is worth

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2016 16:48

The US that forced Pakistan to join the GWOT (the Global War On Terror) under threat of otherwise being 'bombed into the stone age' could well threaten Pakistan similarly to shut her proxy wars, but is not doing so because Pakistan is an important link in America's Great Game in South Asia.
Ironically, Pakistan is of similar value to China. The near free hand that Pakistan has got in Afghanistan has made the Pakistani army bolder in expanding her strategic depth.


Why on earth then do we continue to take our Paki ailment to the US and instead stop rewarding that hypocrisy of a nation with lucrative arms deals ,etc.?
The only conclusion one can draw is that the Indian MEA is totally impotent and has been infiltrated and indoctrinated by pro-Yanqui interests and foreign-policy "vegans" of the Nehru-Gandhian philosophy.

PS:Another reason why Pak has upped the terror attacks at this time.To scuttle M.Hollande's visit to Delhi as chief guest at the Republic Day parade. This explains the HM/DM warnings about planned terror attacks/hostage taking in the capital. For M.Hollande to cancel his visit if the capital is rocked by terror prior to his visit and it is deemed unsafe for him to travel to India,would be a devastating blow to Indian prestige and ability to defend itself against terror. Any attack during the parade would have unmentionable consequences.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Falijee » 04 Jan 2016 17:00

Pakistan Media Peddling "Afzal Guru Theory" To Avoid Blame For Pathankot Attack :twisted:

‘Pathankot men wanted to avenge Afzal Guru’s execution’
The Newspaper's Correspondent — Updated a day ago

NEW DELHI: The gunmen who attacked an Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Pathankot on Saturday planned it as revenge for the execution of Afzal Guru in February 2013. The surrendered Kashmiri militant was controversially hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail by the Congress government amid questions about his role in the parliament attack case of December 2001.
The Hindustan Times quoted Rajesh Verma, who it said was abducted by four heavily armed men along with two others near Punjab’s Pathankot early on Friday, as describing the reason they allegedly gave for the assault plan. The abductors slit his throat and left him for dead.
“‘You killed Afzal Guru and now we will take revenge,’ they kept on saying as they continued beating us with rifles butts,” Verma told the newspaper in Gurdaspur.

“As it was New Year eve, my friend SP Salwinder Singh suggested that I come along and pay obeisance at the mazaar of a saint in village Kolian in Narot Jaimal Singh block close to the border.
“As we were coming back, four men in army uniform signalled our car to stop. As we stopped, the four overpowered us and barged into the vehicle and tied all of us with ropes and clothes,” Verma said.

Speaking from his hospital bed, he said that soon after they were abducted the men told them that they were going to attack the air force base to avenge the hanging of their colleague Afzal Guru. The Urdu-speaking men were carrying assault rifles and grenades as well as a GPS navigation system and had a clear idea about the location of the base.
Guru was secretly hanged and buried in the Tihar jail after his mercy petition was rejected by President Pranab Mukherjee.

“As the car drove for around 30km, they dropped off the SP and the old cook but took me along. When we reached near village Tajpur, where they had intended to enter the IAF base, they slit my throat and left me for dead in the SUV,” he said.
“However, I managed to survive by controlling the blood with a cloth and I ran towards a gurdwara from where I managed a phone (call) and informed my relative who rushed me to the hospital,” Verma said.

The terrorists, Verma said, were unaware that they had kidnapped a Punjab police officer because they launched a search for the SP when the hooter of the car accidentally went off. :roll:
Verma said he had told the police and intelligence officials everything he knew, according to the Hindustan Times report.

Even some of the Paki readers of this farticle are not "buying" this version of the story!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Raghz » 04 Jan 2016 17:09

I consider myself logical, analytical and intelligent with deep interest in Indian spirituality. I understand that we humans intuitively assess people correctly. I owe my understanding of Pakistan to BRF and consider myself quite well informed. I am yet to meet an Indian who has significantly different view on Pakistan whether the person is well informed or illiterate. I attribute this to intuitive ability of people irrespective of their educational background / knowledge.

Why am I saying all this? If a lay person like me can understand the pulse of Pakistan, I consider Narendra Modi to be able to read Pakistan far more accurately. Love or hate Modi, one thing most people would agree is his ability to understand the fundamentals. It could be his understanding of the electorate, media, governance or the various problems faced by the country. I believe that Modi is more of a spiritual person (karma yogi, if you will) than a politician. He will go behind the solution for the problem rather than spend time on ego satisfying trip. An example of this would be his visit to the USA. Most people thought there should / would be some egoistic response to the earlier visa denial episode. But he was focused on the core issue of development by engaging with the USA.

What is at the root of our problems with Pakistan? If it is Ghazwa-e-Hind as Tarek Fatah mentions, then, is there a solution? I realized some time ago, that there are no solutions to such issues. No matter what solution we creatively come up with, it will have implications on India. I believe the problem needs to be managed till such a time where we expend as minimal resource on the problem as possible. I would compare this to a chess game. Pakistan has made a move, no matter what move we make, Pakistan will respond. So, should we keep quiet? Not at all, just the understanding that there is no “check mate” in this game and it will go on for a long time. During the course of the game, we will lose some of our resources (I am not callous about this statement at all). However, I believe that Modi understands the magnitude of the problem. He will make various moves during his time, some I will understand, some I won’t. Some may be a weak move, some may be strong. However, I do not want him to forget the objective of the game. I do not think he will.

What is the point of this post? Nothing. There is no solution to the Pakistan problem. As with life, we are just managing it. Is there a solution to the cold war? It is more manageable now than before, that’s all.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Ashokk » 04 Jan 2016 17:12

Spurned and broken, Jaish was ISI’s trump card
New Delhi: As the ISI and Pak army escalated their attempts to target an Indian establishment outside J&K after PM Narendra Modi's stopover at Lahore, Jaish-e-Mohammed was not a surprise choice for them, say sources. At a time when movements of other groups like Lashkar-e--Toiba and Hafeez Saeed were being watched closely, Jaish proved to be ISI's trump card.

Not only was this a chance for the ageing outfit to prove themselves outside J&K, the outfit also had a personal agenda. Jaish's operations chief, Mufti Ashgar, was desperate to target India to avenge his brother's death, highly placed sources say. Ashgar's brother, Adil Pathan, abd his aide Chhota Burmi was gunned down by special operations group in south Kashmir mid October soon after which Ashgar had vowed to seek revenge, transcripts of conversations intercepted in the last two months, confirm.

After the killings of these two terrorists, Jaish had lost majority of its foothold in J&K and India. It was also under immense pressure from ISI and the Pak army to prove its worth. Sources say, the heads of the outfit viz Maulana Masood Azhar and Mufti Ashgar, were clearly instructed by ISI to execute a strike by first week of January.

Scores of intelligence sleuths have been tasked to re-analyze these conversations to understand what exactly transpired between ISI and Jaish -- two names which were presumed to be on different parallels in the past few years. ISI had literally withdrawn its support after Jaish aligned with al Qaida and even targeted Parvez Musharraf, twice. Musharraf had a close shave in both these attacks, sources recalled.

However, the outfit had been trying to mend bridges with ISI, of late, to co-exist. To prove that it was worth a second chance, Jaish had been trying to make its presence felt in J&K by carrying out multiple strikes this year. In one of the conversations, Azhar was apparently trying to reason with a major in ISI recalling how it had never failed the Pak army and the secret service right from the time it executed a strike at the Indian Parliament.

In the last week, there was a sudden surge in communications amongst Jaish members but J&K not Punjab was considered a possible target, sources say. Jaish members were apparently not willing to target Punjab and had instead offered to strike in Delhi. However, they were ready only when their objective was precisely briefed as the IAF base, its personnel and aircrafts.

Jaish's revival is being considered dangerous for Delhi and other metros. Unlike Lashkar and other outfits, Jaish's Fidayeens are far more organized, informed, equipped (e.g. they carry rations for days) and lethal. The agencies are hoping they can nip the outfit's fresh attempts in the bud.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 18:47

Don't forget this piece by one of the invited in Sushma's council. Nothing will come out of it.

This meeting is an eyewash to show the hoi-polloi (both inside the border and outside) that govt is trying to follow the conventional wisdom taking everyone along.

When(not if) the retaliation comes (withing couple of weeks to a month at max), it WILL BE out-of-box, unconventional and a complete surprise - similar to myanmar raid and Lahore visit for birthday diplomacy. It may not be a spectacle but it will go a long way to shape the future behavior of the vermin. I do have that much faith on NaMo and Doval.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 04 Jan 2016 19:35

Picklu wrote:When(not if) the retaliation comes (withing couple of weeks to a month at max), it WILL BE out-of-box, unconventional and a complete surprise - similar to myanmar raid and Lahore visit for birthday diplomacy. It may not be a spectacle but it will go a long way to shape the future behavior of the vermin. I do have that much faith on NaMo and Doval.

I hate doing this because I have done it so often. But I can't help it - one has to console oneself when one is emotionally battered and get not even a moment of joy from the news. Perhaps the nadir was when Manmohan Singh started crying in front of Bush or someone on 9-11 while his asshole colleagues were justifying terror. But when something like this happens and we go past the event without punishing the Paki army I have to console myself by dreaming and rationalizing that there is something Chankianly brilliant happening. I have to tell myself, "These terror sponsors want a response from India. They want retaliation. And they know that retaliation will only be temporary and light but they can then blame India. So when we don't respond we are harming them" This sentence I have just typed is the biggest load of bullshit I have written in recent times - but I need to fill my mind with bullshit to make myself feel better


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby shiv » 04 Jan 2016 19:49

Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Mihaylo » 04 Jan 2016 20:00

The disappointment I feel is the same I felt post 26/11. Back then it was because of Dhimmi response in spite of the magnitude of the event and now the Dhimmi response inspite of the high expectations built up by 56"

Truly a disappointing day.

-M

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby dsreedhar » 04 Jan 2016 20:04

The whole world opinion on terrorism and pakistan is at the worst, the pak army stretched out, pak populace tired with sectarian strife and terrorism, baluchi movement in swing and Afghan-Pak relations at low. I can't think what will be a more favorable environment than the current situation. India should open up to act with limited strikes on the terror training camps right across the border in PoK. Afterall it is Indian territory as we claim. It both shows India's resolve to act and also serves as a deterrent to any anti-india operators in the neighborhood. India has to come out of the shell. It is the first one that takes time to act. If not the covert strikes India should openly give full support to baluchi and any other separatist movements. Also make use of the militants and terrorist in Pak to attack more of the Pak defense establishments.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby A Sharma » 04 Jan 2016 20:20

Attacking terror training camps is a futile exercise. No point killing those who r ready to die. Kill those who control them, their families.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 20:23

The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby nirav » 04 Jan 2016 20:47

Picklu wrote:The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!


+1

Also, all those ridiculing the PM by repeatedly quoting 56" over and over again,
how many "s are you internet warriors ?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby dsreedhar » 04 Jan 2016 20:52

Attacking terror training camps is more of disrupting the operations of these groups than killing the individuals. The masterminds are the ones to be punished. Also at some point the families of these terrorists also have to pay in some form or fashion. That is what will make the families and parents be more responsible for their ladla's acts.

Another thing if possible India should use its soft power to influence the western world to stop the safe/second home in western countries for those who served in Pak Army/ISI.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Mihaylo » 04 Jan 2016 20:54

Picklu wrote:The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!


And why does it have to be sequentical. Are we following a set timetable created by babudom that we will give a response only after a certain time as passed ? No wonder the pukes have us by our gotis

-M

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby vivek.rao » 04 Jan 2016 21:30

http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/pa ... 160102.htm

The problem with India and Pakistan can be solved by Pakistan by ceasing its support for Islamist terrorists operating in India, letting go of its baseless demands upon Kashmir, ceasing its support for terrorists attacking India assets in Afghanistan.'

C hristine Fair is the author of Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War. An associate professor at the Centre for Peace and Security Studies, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, she is considered an authority on Pakistan and the Islamists within.


Do you believe the Pakistan army is on board with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's current rapprochement with India? Will the Pakistan military and the ISI behave or will it continue to needle India with its non-State actors?

Of course not, because there is no genuine rapprochement for several reasons.

The problem with India and Pakistan can be solved by Pakistan by ceasing its support for Islamist terrorists operating in India, letting go of its baseless demands upon Kashmir, ceasing its support for terrorists attacking India assets in Afghanistan.

There is only evidence for Pakistan's continued commitment to these goals.

What do you think Washington told General Raheel Sharif, left, when he came a-visiting a few weeks ago? And what would they have needed to impress on him to get him to play ball?

Are lots of American goodies coming GHQ Rawalpindi's way?

The usual: Stop supporting the Haqqanis and take steps to eliminate them, stop supporting groups like LeT/JuD and take steps to eliminate them, stop engaging irresponsibly with respect to your nuclear programme, help bring the Taliban to the negotiating table.

As with previous similar 'lectures,' this army chief -- like all before him -- will ignore these messages and continuing doing what it does while continuing to get money from the United States because the United States is too afraid that Pakistan will fail etc.

We've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.

What would be the five things you would expect from Pakistan in 2016?

1. More support for groups like JUD/LeT.
2. More support for the Haqqani network.
3. Inability and unwillingness to be constructive in Afghanistan.
4. More nuclear proliferation with respect to fissile material production and 'tactical nuclear weapons.'
5. More army dominance over the eviscerated democratic instittuions while engendering public support for the same

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ldev » 04 Jan 2016 21:32

Picklu wrote:The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!


When GOI's language is (while the firing has not even stopped):

enemies of humanity


and

one attack will not halt the peace talks


and an MMS like

befitting reply



instead of

We view this attack in Pathankot as a betrayal of the peace process started by PM Modi visiting Pakistan recently. As such, we announce that with immediate effect all talks with Pakistan stand cancelled. This includes the NSA level and FS dialogue. In the meantime we will investigate the Pathankot attack and if we find any links to the Government of Pakistan, its Army or its intelligence services, we will take appropriate action to punish those responsible


then it would not be viewed as a dhimmi response.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Satya_anveshi » 04 Jan 2016 22:02

What if objective of foreign secretary level talks is to share the list of nations that are funding terrorist machinery and devise appropriate response?

What if objective of NSA level talks is to share the list of people within Pak (and India) that are funding terrorist machinery and/or list of terrorist sleeper cells within India and devise appropriate response?

Does it occur to you that this attack could be a reaction from people that are to lose if talks proceed as planned?

There is almost like a meme that we stand to lose in talks. what is the basis for that assumption?
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 04 Jan 2016 22:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Jan 2016 22:04

Dunno who this is, but on Facebook, interesting:


Rahul Kanwal
23 mins ·
BREAKING: INDIA SHARES WITH PAKISTAN EVIDENCE ABOUT INVOLVEMENT OF ELEMENTS INSIDE PAKISTAN IN PLOTTING THE PATHANKOT ATTACK
Indian government now waiting for response from Pakistan to see whether Islamabad will show resolve to act against terrorists and their handlers.
Government sources say this is the first major test of Pakistani resolve since the new peace process got off the ground.
Pakistan has officially acknowledged that leads have been provided by India and that Pakistani agencies are following up on the inputs that have been provided.
The Modi government wants to see if Pakistan is willing to walk the talk in the spirit of the new friendship and the promises made by the Pakistani government.
In the aftermath of the Pathankot attack, intelligence agencies had intercepted phone recordings of terrorists with their handlers and family members inside Pakistan. The GPS coordinates of the call logs and the transcripts are among the evidence that has been shared with Pakistan.
Sources in the Modi government say decision on Foreign Secretary level talks will in part depend on response from Pakistan.
If Pakistan seems sincere about acting against those responsible for Pathankot, it will be seen as a positive sign by India.
Refusal to act against the perpetrators will indicate that the Pakistan army is not on board the peace process and that any effort at dialogue will lead to little positive outcome.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 22:23

Mihaylo wrote:
Picklu wrote:The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!


And why does it have to be sequentical. Are we following a set timetable created by babudom that we will give a response only after a certain time as passed ? No wonder the pukes have us by our gotis

-M



"Goli chalegi yahan pe, laash girega wahan pe" - only Mithunda is capable of such feat.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 22:37

ldev wrote:
Picklu wrote:The firing has not even stopped at Pathankot and we are already talking about dhimmi response!!!


When GOI's language is (while the firing has not even stopped):

enemies of humanity


and

one attack will not halt the peace talks


and an MMS like

befitting reply



instead of

We view this attack in Pathankot as a betrayal of the peace process started by PM Modi visiting Pakistan recently. As such, we announce that with immediate effect all talks with Pakistan stand cancelled. This includes the NSA level and FS dialogue. In the meantime we will investigate the Pathankot attack and if we find any links to the Government of Pakistan, its Army or its intelligence services, we will take appropriate action to punish those responsible


then it would not be viewed as a dhimmi response.


The border responses, the boat incident, the myanmar raid, the ufa vs sharm-el-sheikh, the middle east rescue operations, mi-25 to AFG - all points to differences between MMS and NaMo. Hence none without blinker should make the dhimmi response accusation unless motivated politically.

Again most of them were preceded NOT by bombast but the most pedantic "sudh shakahari" statements.

Nothing MMS said like 'befitting reply' etc are in the fault but they have been made 'pure joke' by the inaction and incompetency behind them. I see the current admin way more efficient and business like hence I do not mind these statement. These statements do make the intent of the admin clear and a literal implementation of them would be approved by any jingo - only the previous govt failed to act and made them the caricature they appear to be.

Also a large part of the public(and forumites) have become emotionally invested in "no talks till terror stops" doctrine and have resented the Lahore diplomacy. This attack has given them the perfect reason to vent and point accusingly to "56" asking for a policy reversal

None of the statement current gov made precludes or rules out action. How would you like if a few major explosion rocks the tanjim headquarters and ISI office the day FS comes back to India after meeting in counterpart in Isloo? And the FS level talks are all about PoK and MFN?

Why the talk has to stop before we deliver the kick?

The only concern for a jingo should be that that the talk should not be concession or surrender. Most people watching the present admin have full faith in the current interlocutors to prevent a repeat of sharm-el-sheikh.
Last edited by Picklu on 04 Jan 2016 22:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby member_23370 » 04 Jan 2016 22:41

Why are ppl moaning and bitching already. When the pakis get a solid ghapad they will know.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Jan 2016 22:42

All of this 'constructive engagement' with the pakis opens the way for covert ops with the plausible deniability that a direct strike would not have.

I will wait for AD & co. to let loose the rent-a-jihadis on their current paymasters.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 22:45

Chinmayanand wrote:56' postpones FS meet. NSAs meet to precede FS meet.
Befitting reply indeed.


its winter season in india, if the 56 inch chest is exposed it might get pneumonia, rest assured the chest is well clothed.
also changing sequencing of the talks is the kind of leadership that was promised during the elections. all you have to do is bring the expectation down, and that
will fix the issues.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 22:47

Bheeshma wrote:Why are ppl moaning and bitching already. When the pakis get a solid ghapad they will know.


will that change their calculus ?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Baikul » 04 Jan 2016 22:53

SSridhar wrote:At the end of the 72 hours, if Pakistan had still been dithering, India must retaliate in ways other than just suspending talks. Merely suspending talks is not punishment enough.


Yes, otherwise we will create a historical first of sorts, a 72 hour warning meeting its 72.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Falijee » 04 Jan 2016 22:56

Pathankot Attack: Pakistan Says Working On Leads Provided By India :roll:
New Delhi: Pakistan has condemned the terror attack at the Pathankot Air Force Base and said it is working on the leads provided by the Indian government on the attack, believed to have been carried out by the Pakistan-based terror group Jaish-e-Mohammad.
"In line with Pakistan's commitment to effectively counter and eradicate terrorism, the government is in touch with the Indian government and is working on the leads provided by it," Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement released from Islamabad.
The statement, however, did not elaborate upon what these leads were.
The attack, it said, should not derail the dialogue process between the two countries but actually strengthen the resolve to take it forward.

The Foreign Secretaries of the two countries are scheduled to meet on January 14 and 15 in Islamabad. After the ongoing attack that has left seven Indian security personnel martyred and 20 injured, India is considering delaying the meeting, sources have told NDTV. It may choose to first ask for a consultation between National Security Adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval and his Pakistani counterpart Naseer Khan Janjua, they added.
"Living in the same region and with a common history, the two countries should remain committed to a sustained dialogue process. The challenge of terrorism calls for strengthening our resolve to a cooperative approach," the Pakistan foreign office said.
The statement says Pakistan, itself a victim of terrorism, empathises with the families of soldiers killed in the Pathankot attack. "The unfortunate terrorist incident in Pathankot, India, has been categorically condemned by Pakistan. We understand the pain of many families who have lost their dear ones in this tragedy, as Pakistan itself is a major victim of terrorism. We have extended our deepest condolences to the Government and people of India," it said


The civilian set up in Pakiland may not have the same agenda as the Deep State Govt; the civilian govt may shed crocodile tears, repeating ad nauseam the usual mantra of Pakistan itself being an victim of terrorism :(( and expressing the "usual sympathy" to GOI ;while the Deep State carries on its usual activities ; as said often, Pak Army Inc cannot survive, if peace breaks out with India!
IMO, Modiji is testing Pak's sincerity for peace; (carrot and stick approach); appears the carrot approach did not work; now it is time to "use the stick", starting with economic measures that hurt this artificial entity, and "shaming" them in international forums !

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:01

shamming was the policy used by congress(UPA), this GOI is different


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