Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Dec 2015 22:24

IMO, having shown the stick from after inauguration till the cancellation of the UFA talks, the current game is to display a lot of carrots to Pakistan - TAPI, dialog, & H&D preservation/face-saving, etc. This may be recognition of reduced # of light bulb explosions (Guddu's term

) and I speculate, some behind-the-scenes stuff on Afghanistan -- let us see. I also wonder if Pakistan not visibly participating in the Saudi Yemen war and the alliance against "terrorism" is some kind of signalling of the willingness to create a little distance from Wahabbism. I wonder, I wonder, only time will tell to us not in the know.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 25 Dec 2015 22:26

Kya Googli, beamer combination ball kar diya Modi Ji ne! Congress has tied itself in knots (pre-planned visit to PM shouldn't do unplanned visit), RW shell shocked, media forgot about DDCA, Jaitly , and Kejriwal forgot to review Star Wars....

Maan Liye Modi Ji!

Absolutely stunning optics. All western powers were caugt napping in X-Mass day.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Dec 2015 22:57

chetak wrote:
CRamS wrote:Guys, burka is triumphantly speculating that ModiJi has withdrawn the Harried rats red line. Any truth to that?

BJP spoki very categorically clarified this to a panting gaurav sawant on teevee that the redlines remain for the hurriat.

But lets see how long that red line lasts. Like everyting else, that too may be a transient position.

TSP needs to the Harried rats or else they have no leverage on the valley. However, the wild card is Muft Sayeed. As the elected representative, if he sings the Harried rats tune, and if TSP meets him before talks, then that may be one way both TSP and India keep their positions in tact. And in any case, from TSP's PoV, there is no much difference between Mufti and Harried rats, except that Mufti is not as overt in his Paki proclivities as the Harried rats. I think that battle is now between Cong, Harried rats, TSP, Mufti on one side Vs BJP and ModiJi on the other. The complicating factor is that BJP and Mufti are in a coalition, so don't know that the precise dynamics will be going forward. TSP will be maneuvering big time behind the scenes to make themselves a solid party in the valley.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Dec 2015 23:35

I don't see that butcher of balochistan retard brigadier anywhere.
I guess was not invited to Nawaz's house!

Nawaz is cocking a snook at fauj.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 25 Dec 2015 23:58

When in opposition Modi and the BJP said we shouldn't have any relations whatsoever with the Pakis until they stop sponsoring terrorism and killing soldiers at the border. Yet now this?

No doubt folks will put some kind of Chanakyan spin on this.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2015 00:05

sunnyP wrote:When in opposition Modi and the BJP said we shouldn't have any relations whatsoever with the Pakis until they stop sponsoring terrorism and killing soldiers at the border. Yet now this?

No doubt folks will put some kind of Chanakyan spin on this.

He may have just gone for the grand daughter's wedding after the invite. Pretty ballsy of him to fly in a paki chopper. Wonder how many Indian security guys crapped their pants.

the pakis are already thinking that cashmere will be handed over to them by the week end

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 26 Dec 2015 00:18

UlanBatori wrote:An understandable misunderstanding. Modi was on return flight from Kabul after eating Kabuli chana, and said to pilot:
I have to go to (the) pakistan onlee
The pilot promptly landed at La'hore.

Batori Bhaia was right.
Nation rag confirms "droppings"

no I didn't make this up

[url]http://nation.com.pk/national/25-Dec-20 ... -today/url]

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 26 Dec 2015 02:27

How sweet.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Dec 2015 02:44

Gagan wrote:The shenshahs do this with their subjects, drop in unannounced.
So that the ISI and bad sharif can't do any mischief.Modi dropping in also prolly means that some thing is being delivered post the NSA's meet? GoI is actually being friendly, Pakistan must have agreed to do something in return.

Game getting interesting. Mucchar Raheel is running to Kabul to "discuss". Do we see curtain on the phase started in 80s? Modi stopover 2 provide assurance of Kaccha to Nanga Ganja can't be spur of moment. IMHO , coup by fauji Poo is averted. Paki media have been lately blatantly anti Sharif and let's see if the tune change to provide educated guess to gauge the vacillation on Coup or No Coup signal scale.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 26 Dec 2015 02:47

Modiji has pen in his jacket pocket,while ganja has a pair of glasses..Ganja would need his glasses after
Modiji writes & signs a porki death warrant...

I dont know about dovalji,but AS sure reads brf...even Gd forum

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Dec 2015 03:25

Doval-Janjua laid the ground for visit - Nayanima Basu, Business Line

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Pakistan was not a last-minute decision, according to sources.

Even as the Centre remained mum on the issue, highly placed sources said the Lahore visit was discussed between Modi and Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in Paris earlier this month, when they met on the sidelines of the climate change summit. Then on, it was left to the respective National Security Advisors (NSAs) — Ajit Doval and Nasir Janjua.

In fact, when both the NSAs met in Bangkok this month, the Lahore visit was a “crucial” part of their talks, sources said. While New Delhi had confirmed to Islamabad that Modi would visit Pakistan soon, it was not decided when exactly the visit would happen, a top official told BusinessLine.

Meanwhile, it was the Prime Minister’s Office that took the call of sending External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj to Islamabad to take part in the ‘Heart of Asia’ meet. Sources said it was during Sushma Swaraj’s visit that Modi’s stopover to Pakistan was confirmed.

However, India had only one condition — that the talks should take place in an “informal manner”. Hence, it was decided that Lahore would be the venue, not Islamabad, the capital city.

In fact, it was also decided that after his stopover in Afghanistan, Modi would head to Lahore directly from there.

Subsequently, all security arrangements and permits were arranged after hectic backchannel work.

However, officials said, the secrecy was tightly maintained even within the Ministry of External Affairs and “not everyone was apprised about” it, while the talks and arrangements took place at the level of foreign secretaries and NSAs in “close coordination” with the PMO.

Sources said this “grand visit” by Modi to Lahore is being seen as warming-up exercise before formal summit-level talks take place with Sharif on the sidelines of the 19th SAARC Summit.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 03:41

That is not a pak fauj guard on both sides of the modi-nawaz.
More like a pakistan punjab police unit

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 03:45

Raheel just wants a 3 yr extension.
The last coup by mushy was done by generals on behalf of mushy.

Pak fauj will NOT like this! This is against the raison d'etre for them. Bharat / Hindu dushmani is deeply ingrained.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 03:51

Media says what a coup...
I say, guys you ain't seen the real thing yet

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 05:27

Gagan wrote:That is not a pak fauj guard on both sides of the modi-nawaz.
More like a pakistan punjab police unit

Looks like an Air Force unit to me. I see wings on shoulders

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 05:59

How did SPG handle the PM's security?
Was that BMW flown in from dilli? Did they certify Nawaz's official helo? It is a twin engined AW-139 helo.

But Nawaz was within a 2 meter radius of Modi all the time. But Modi must have worn his bullet proof vest throughout.
Nawaz's proximity rules out a bum blast. Shahbaaz sharif has all the Pakjabi jihadi groups in his pocket. Half the retired faujis are in the Sharif family's pockets.

Even so

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 06:00

Did Sajjan Jindal play secret Santa to Narendra Modi-Nawaz Sharif?

both Jindals and Sharif family have been personal friends for generations with similar business interests in steel.

Nawaz Sharif 's father Muhammad Sharif started his business empire in 1939 with a small steel mill — Ittefaq Ltd, which over the years has transformed itself into one of the largest steelmaking units there. Sugar is the other big Sharif family business comprising more than 24 factories that are currently managed by Nawaz Sharif 's nephew Hamza and son. Incidentally, both were present to greet Modi on Friday at the Sharif residence on the outskirts of Lahore.

"They have been personal friends for at least two generations. It got cemented further in the past decade. Both families and even their kids know each other well and both have bases in London where they have met several times," said a friend of the Jindal family who did not want to be quoted.

Personal rapport apart, industry observers say strategic business interests too could be influencing a desire to play midwife to the incipient bonhomie.

A grouping of Indian steelmakers, called Afghan Iron & Steel Consortium (Afisco) that is led by state-run SAIL along with JSW, JSPL and Monnet Ispat, has been negotiating with the Pakistani government for right of way to transport iron ore by road from Hajigak iron ore deposits in Afghanistan's Bamiyan province to Karachi, before it is shipped to ports in western and southern India. This is a much cheaper alternative than using Russia as a transit point and is the key to the commercial viability of these mining concessions. Using Iran could be an alternative, but steel industry officials say the Pakistan route is most economical from a cost perspective. Unless this issue is resolved, the memorandum of understanding signed between both sides will not move forward.

As per the agreement with the Afghan government, Afisco has to build a 2-mt steel plant in Afghanistan to be allowed the right to export iron ore from Hajigak mountains. The ferrous content of the ore is said to be in the high sixties, which is considered to be high quality.

The Indian consortium was selected as preferred bidder for three of the four iron ore blocks in Hajigak mines that hold about 1.8 billion tonne iron ore.

Sajjan's younger brother Naveen Jindal runs Jindal Steel & Power (JSPL), which holds a 16 per cent stake in the Afisco consortium, identical to JSW Ispat. Their brother-in-law Sandeep Jajodia controls Monnet Ispat & Energy, which holds a 4 per cent stake in Afisco.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 26 Dec 2015 06:03

The PM used Air India aircraft to travel to Russia but when he lands in Pakistan is on an IAF VIP plane.
So it seems a special plane was send to Russia to take him to Afghanistan?? And Pakistan

partha · Post by **partha** » 26 Dec 2015 06:17

Gagan wrote:How did SPG handle the PM's security?
Was that BMW flown in from dilli? Did they certify Nawaz's official helo? It is a twin engined AW-139 helo.

But Nawaz was within a 2 meter radius of Modi all the time. But Modi must have worn his bullet proof vest throughout.
Nawaz's proximity rules out a bum blast. Shahbaaz sharif has all the Pakjabi jihadi groups in his pocket. Half the retired faujis are in the Sharif family's pockets.

Even so

I too was thinking about Modi's security arrangements. That helo ride - wtf? That's a full toss with a no ball for people who want to target him and we know there is no dearth of such people in Pakistan.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 06:20

There are 3 B-737 business jets which the IAF VIP sqadron flies. They are equipped with several high tech features to jam both radar guided and heat seeking missiles. One can see laser warning seekers on them too.
The flying time from Lahore to indian territiry is about 7 mins.
I was more worried about the Kabul to Lahore flight. Both the pak fauj and the pak fizzaiya would have known about it.
The only real danger is when the plane descends down from its cruising altitude.

It is well known that ISI's punjabi Jihadis have in the past planned stinger / anza strikes.
The pakistani media were telling everyone which runway the plane will land on. They even said that the plane is now over Mianwali. The PM's departure on Nawaz's helo was announced at both ends by the media! The PM himself tweeted several hours prior to the travel that he is going to Lahore.

All these things must not happen in the future !

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 26 Dec 2015 06:28

Gagan wrote:I don't see that butcher of balochistan retard brigadier anywhere.
I guess was not invited to Nawaz's house!

Nawaz is cocking a snook at fauj.

It was announced that given the last minute organisation of this meeting, there wasn't enough time to get Paki NSA to Lahore. I woukd guess that fauji Sharif is against the meeting and ganja kept his NSA out of the loop as he may not trust him. Paki NSA's loyalty may be with fauji Sharif and definitely not with Ganja.

This trip for sure is an image building exercise for Ganja.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 06:35

One must say that Nawaz is risking his life and his prime ministership over this.
If he does not give Raheel that extension, this will be used as anexcuse to take him out.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Dec 2015 06:37

Whatever else this out of box move does or does not do, it makes it difficult for the Paki army to conduct a formal coup - at least for a while after this. Nawaz Sharif's ass has been somewhat saved. Meeting in Lahore is an interesting venue. Not Slumabad, but probably Sharif sronghold.

Pak Army must have known - Rangers took over security in Lahore as per news. But lack of leaks suggests only a core set knew.

Modi's surprise took the wind out of the sails of a billion opinions - it was a fait accompli. It's over and done now and no one can dictate why and how a meeting needs to occur.

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 26 Dec 2015 06:39

Keeping all political discussions aside, this was simply an unacceptable amount of security risk taken by Indian security agencies to allow a person of Modi's stature to land in Pakistan. I have hundred questions swirling in my mind.

1) During the general elections of 2014, Pakistan has been regularly sending teams of assassins to 'get' Modi at many of his gatherings. Why land directly in the snake pit now?
2) JEM, LET, ISI, Taliban etc have declared a huge bounty on Modi's life and every 2nd person in Pakistan has links to these organizations.
3) Any of those uniformed Pakistani guards would have been tempted to do a "Mumtaz Quadri" and become the Herrow of Pakistan.
4) Getting onto the PAF helicopter itself had a huge potential for a "explosive crate of Mangoes".
5) For a good reason, VIP's like President Obama and Putin etc do not visit Pakistan. The last few who did traveled in compete secrecy under full Curfew blanket. what made Modi ji to undertake such foolhardiness?

Rajeev Gandhi pushed his luck too far(several attempts) and finally ran out of luck.

Either our security agencies are being too lackadaisical or heavy Chanikyan planning is going behind the scenes.

Does anyone on this forum have insider information on what sorts of security guarantees were extracted from the Pakis to discourage misadventurism?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Dec 2015 06:43

^^ If that's not 56 inch chhaati, I wonder what is..

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 06:45

Modi has laid to rest the mortal danger to Nawaz's life after Ufa. Plain and simple.
If this visit hadn't happened, and there was no breakthrough on cricket and other things, and with raheel's extension also hanging without much clarity, all these things would have added up to portend very very bad situation for Nawaz.

I have felt this many times, GoI has saved many a Pakistani PM's life on multiple occasions.
India is atleast a 0.5 friend of Pakistan. The reason that country survives is partly because of us!

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Dec 2015 06:48

Kashi wrote:^^ If that's not 56 inch chhaati, I wonder what is..

^^^+1.
Even thinking of such a thing gives the jeebies and the man just coolly walked in and out of the snakepit with a swagger. Truely a 56 inch chaati!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 06:51

Rajagopal wrote:Keeping all political discussions aside, this was simply an unacceptable amount of security risk taken by Indian security agencies to allow a person of Modi's stature to land in Pakistan. I have hundred questions swirling in my mind

Not to mention MSA asking the Pakistanis on TV to do certain things.
Those two, Salman Khursheed and MSA were sent to pindi with an sos message from people in dilli.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2015 06:59

In the end the ultimate security concession the SPG must have extracted must have been Nawaz promising to be within a 2 m radius of Modi, travel in the same car and helo.
There must be other things like SPG security rings, escape routes, other helos and aircraft on standby. I wonder if an air corridor was asked for and left open from Amritsar to Lahore for military aircraft. There must have been awacs in the air just beyond the border, keeping an close eye on everything.
Raiwind is due south from Labore and quite close to the India border...

Maybe multiple helos in readiness, multiple B-737s, no media allowed to show the aircraft in the air (VIP entering an aircraft and that aircraft in the air in continuity).
SPG doesn't use body doubles right?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Dec 2015 07:00

Am reminded of Shivaji's rapidfire trip to Srisailam, then under Nizam rule, where he made big donations to the temple and deity and left, before Nizamate could act.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 26 Dec 2015 07:03

Bharka's show shows a white Mi-17 with green strips. Maybe they used Punjab Govt chopper rather than military.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Dec 2015 07:07

What would India have done if Pakis had killed Modi?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 26 Dec 2015 07:37

Gagan wrote:In the end the ultimate security concession the SPG must have extracted must have been Nawaz promising to be within a 2 m radius of Modi, travel in the same car and helo.

That is no good over in Pak. Nobody is going to really miss Nawaz, as his long exile in SA prove. A big risk by Shree Modi.

Wonder what are the benefits and when this trip was planned? Is there some plan by the Mal-Sharif to up the ante and Shree Modi urgently shared something on that aspect? Or is it something visionary around Afghanistan that India has in mind, that needs a personal appraisal by the PM, as well as consequences of torpedoing it?

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 07:50

Don't know how factual this story is, but it answers many questions that people are asking. Posting in full:

One party put off for another

Dec. 25: The first indication that something unusual was taking place surrounding Prime Minister Narendra Modi's just-concluded Afghanistan visit - when he stopped over in Lahore on Friday on his way back home - became obvious on December 14 in Kochi.

Modi was on his maiden visit to Kerala 19 months after being sworn in as Prime Minister. One of his visitors in Kochi on December 14 was Cardinal Mar George Alencherry, the archbishop of the Syro-Malabar Church.

Modi told the archbishop that he had sought the postponement of a tea party for Christian community leaders on Christmas Day at finance minister Arun Jaitley's residence and expressed regret for any inconvenience that may have been caused to the cardinal and others like him. Modi was to have "dropped in" on that tea party by prior arrangement.

A lot had gone into preparations for that tea party, which was to be projected as Modi's return to a key theme during his 2014 Lok Sabha election campaign - of a development agenda and negation of polarising politics and anti-minority rhetoric.

If it was being postponed despite its symbolism on Christmas Day, something very major must have been on the Prime Minister's mind. That "something" was his stopover in Lahore, it became clear on Friday. The rescheduled tea party, as of now, will take place on December 29 when Modi will be available to drop in.

Notwithstanding any official spin to the contrary that Modi made a spur-of-the-moment decision in Kabul to personally greet Nawaz Sharif on his birthday, it can be authoritatively said that a decision to continue his dialogue in Paris with the Pakistani Prime Minister was taken at least two weeks ago and the two sides had been working on it since.

As a corollary, at the Pakistani high commission in New Delhi and at the ministry of foreign affairs in Islamabad, there were clear signals all of a sudden that issues and papers related to India had begun moving.

On Wednesday morning, a phone call was put through to the Pakistani high commission on behalf of foreign secretary S. Jaishankar on an issue that had received Modi's attention a few days earlier.

On January 1, 2016, India's diplomatic outpost in Islamabad would become headless, Modi was told by his top aides on external affairs. The high commissioner, T.C.A. Raghavan, is to retire next Thursday and his replacement was in limbo because Islamabad had not given its agreement for Gautam Bambawale.

An agreement in diplomatic jargon is approval by the host country for posting a new head of mission. Bambawale's name had been sent to Islamabad precisely three months earlier, on September 23, and the Pakistanis had been dragging their feet on his approval.

Modi conveyed to his aides his appreciation of the criticality of the situation. The call on behalf of Jaishankar resulted in action in Islamabad within eight hours. By the end of business day on December 23, the approval of Bambawale was conveyed to the ministry of external affairs.

Veteran Pakistan watchers do not recall any instance when Islamabad acted favourably on an Indian request in eight hours - unless it was under duress. Not even as quid pro quo for something the Pakistanis wanted.

The last time Islamabad responded favourably to an Indian entreaty, it took 24 hours for it to be decided and conveyed to New Delhi. That was permission for Indian aircraft carrying people displaced by the first sprouts of Arab Spring to overfly Pakistani air space.

Unknown to most people on both sides of the border, it is now clear that a decision had already been taken about Modi's Friday stopover in Lahore when Bambawale's name was approved with alacrity following the telephone call from South Block, the Indian diplomacy's fountainhead. Clearly, Sharif and others who would be interacting with Modi's delegation in Lahore did not want any irritant to spoil the atmospherics of a rapprochement.

The promise of Modi's "birthday diplomacy" with Sharif lies in the manner in which he was received on Friday upon arrival in Lahore. The two Prime Ministers warmly hugged each other at the airport.

When Atal Bihari Vajpayee travelled across the border by bus in 1999, it was Sharif who received the then Indian Prime Minister when he alighted from the bus on Pakistani soil. Vajpayee hugged Sharif who was there to receive him. This correspondent watched in dismay that Sharif stood still, his hands stiffly on his sides. Pakistan's Prime Minister did not hug Vajpayee.

A few months later, Kargil followed although the border adventure is often blamed on the then army chief, General Pervez Musharraf. The nature of Vajpayee's reception was not a good augury. This time it has been different and the results will hopefully be different too.

When Modi landed in Lahore, PTV, the state-run TV channel in Pakistan, did its best not to show their Prime Minister hugging his Indian counterpart. PTV had exclusive rights to Modi's arrival ceremony.

But Sharif dismissed PTV's timidity and went ahead with whatever he fancied.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 07:56

Hari Seldon wrote:Am reminded of Shivaji's rapidfire trip to Srisailam, then under Nizam rule, where he made big donations to the temple and deity and left, before Nizamate could act.

Reminds me of the story in the Ramayan of Hanumanji's encounter with Surasa on the way to Lanka.

"Badan paithi puni baahir aava" (Went inside the mouth of the demoness and quickly came out)

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 08:05

Morning qualms to lunchtime cheer

New Delhi, Dec. 25: When Prime Minister Narendra Modi broke bread with his Pakistani counterpart in Lahore late this afternoon, he was living out a cherished dream of his predecessor.

Manmohan Singh, born on the Pakistani side of Punjab, had in January 2007 told a Ficci event here that he dreamt of a day when "one can have breakfast in Amristar, lunch in Lahore and dinner in Kabul".

Modi very nearly did that but in the reverse order, beginning the day in Kabul and stopping over in Lahore before returning to India.

This is why the Congis are so upset.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Dec 2015 08:18

Notwithstanding any official spin to the contrary that Modi made a spur-of-the-moment decision in Kabul to personally greet Nawaz Sharif on his birthday, it can be authoritatively said that a decision to continue his dialogue in Paris with the Pakistani Prime Minister was taken at least two weeks ago and the two sides had been working on it since.

Yet not one presstitute got a whiff of what was to happen. It can be siad authoritatively that the presstitutes got owned and burned at the same time.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 08:19

This story lists the key players that made this visit happen:

Secrecy shield, talks to touchdown

member_28860 · Post by **member_28860** » 26 Dec 2015 08:27

Shiv Wrote:

What would India have done if Pakis had killed Modi?

Shiv Garu,

Nothing much really. Do a Rudali, make frantic phone calls to USA, UK, Russia, [More countries here], launch blistering dossier attacks(I would buy the stock of Fedex and UPS), and then ALL IS WELL. My 2c.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Dec 2015 08:42

Hafiz Saeed is mad about GoP allowing Modi to visit Pakistan (story in Hindi):

http://www.jagran.com/news/national-haf ... tml?src=p1