Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

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sukhish
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:04

dsreedhar wrote:Attacking terror training camps is more of disrupting the operations of these groups than killing the individuals. The masterminds are the ones to be punished. Also at some point the families of these terrorists also have to pay in some form or fashion. That is what will make the families and parents be more responsible for their ladla's acts.

Another thing if possible India should use its soft power to influence the western world to stop the safe/second home in western countries for those who served in Pak Army/ISI.


the best option for india is to bring its expectation down. since expectation(s) were raised so much, its hard to bring them down initially, but with time
they will come down.
Last edited by sukhish on 04 Jan 2016 23:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:07

[quote="Satya_anveshi"]What if objective of foreign secretary level talks is to share the list of nations that are funding terrorist machinery and devise appropriate response?

What if objective of NSA level talks is to share the list of people within Pak (and India) that are funding terrorist machinery and/or list of terrorist sleeper cells within India and devise appropriate response?

Does it occur to you that this attack could be a reaction from people that are to lose if talks proceed as planned?

There is almost like a meme that we stand to lose in talks. what is the basis for that assumption?[/quot

the basis of this assumption is that talks and terror cannot go hand in hand. lot of list(s) have been exchanged previously as well.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:17

Raghz wrote:I consider myself logical, analytical and intelligent with deep interest in Indian spirituality. I understand that we humans intuitively assess people correctly. I owe my understanding of Pakistan to BRF and consider myself quite well informed. I am yet to meet an Indian who has significantly different view on Pakistan whether the person is well informed or illiterate. I attribute this to intuitive ability of people irrespective of their educational background / knowledge.

Why am I saying all this? If a lay person like me can understand the pulse of Pakistan, I consider Narendra Modi to be able to read Pakistan far more accurately. Love or hate Modi, one thing most people would agree is his ability to understand the fundamentals. It could be his understanding of the electorate, media, governance or the various problems faced by the country. I believe that Modi is more of a spiritual person (karma yogi, if you will) than a politician. He will go behind the solution for the problem rather than spend time on ego satisfying trip. An example of this would be his visit to the USA. Most people thought there should / would be some egoistic response to the earlier visa denial episode. But he was focused on the core issue of development by engaging with the USA.

What is at the root of our problems with Pakistan? If it is Ghazwa-e-Hind as Tarek Fatah mentions, then, is there a solution? I realized some time ago, that there are no solutions to such issues. No matter what solution we creatively come up with, it will have implications on India. I believe the problem needs to be managed till such a time where we expend as minimal resource on the problem as possible. I would compare this to a chess game. Pakistan has made a move, no matter what move we make, Pakistan will respond. So, should we keep quiet? Not at all, just the understanding that there is no “check mate” in this game and it will go on for a long time. During the course of the game, we will lose some of our resources (I am not callous about this statement at all). However, I believe that Modi understands the magnitude of the problem. He will make various moves during his time, some I will understand, some I won’t. Some may be a weak move, some may be strong. However, I do not want him to forget the objective of the game. I do not think he will.

What is the point of this post? Nothing. There is no solution to the Pakistan problem. As with life, we are just managing it. Is there a solution to the cold war? It is more manageable now than before, that’s all.


Mr Modi understands the ground fundamental exceptionally well, he knew that before elections he was suppose to raise the expectations to the height of himalayas. basically we should not do expect much from the current GOI as well. and then just before the next elections we are suppose to create a laundry list of his achievments and vote for him again, I can see the game plan of Mr Modi clearly now. he is a very well versed karma yogi.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ldev » 04 Jan 2016 23:21

Pathankot terror attack: Pakistan says it is working on 'leads' shared by India

National Security Advsier Ajit Doval has provided "leads" on the Pathankot Air Force base terror attack to his Pakistani counterpart Naseer Khan Janjua and sought credible action on them.
Reacting to India's move, Pakistan in a statement said that it is working on the "leads" shared by India on the terror attack.

"In line with Pakistan's commitment to effectively counter and eradicate terrorism, the government is in touch with the Indian government and is working on the leads provided by it," the statement released by Pakistani foreign office says.


Great!! Now India is giving "leads and lists" to Pakistan so that Pakistan can take action against their own terrorists!! Rose tinted glasses anyone?

And these "leads" were handed over by Doval to his Pakistani counterpart Retd Gen. Naseer Khan Janjau. Janjau is a retired Army General probably asked by the Pakistan Army to keep an eye on Nawaz Sharif.

How is this any different than India handing over dossiers and information to Pakistan post 2008 Mumbai or any one of numerous other attacks?

People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:25

ldev wrote:Pathankot terror attack: Pakistan says it is working on 'leads' shared by India

National Security Advsier Ajit Doval has provided "leads" on the Pathankot Air Force base terror attack to his Pakistani counterpart Naseer Khan Janjua and sought credible action on them.
Reacting to India's move, Pakistan in a statement said that it is working on the "leads" shared by India on the terror attack.

"In line with Pakistan's commitment to effectively counter and eradicate terrorism, the government is in touch with the Indian government and is working on the leads provided by it," the statement released by Pakistani foreign office says.


Great!! Now India is giving "leads and lists" to Pakistan so that Pakistan can take action against their own terrorists!! Rose tinted glasses anyone?

And these "leads" were handed over by Doval to his Pakistani counterpart Retd Gen. Naseer Khan Janjau. Janjau is a retired Army General probably asked by the Pakistan Army to keep an eye on Nawaz Sharif.

How is this any different than India handing over dossiers and information to Pakistan post 2008 Mumbai or any one of numerous other attacks?

People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.


again the issue is that of expectations. just bring them down. consider this as being living in tough neighbourhood. that's all.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sunnyP » 04 Jan 2016 23:28

Sharing intel with Pakistan so that they can just go and cover their tracks - great idea. Or perhaps they'll kill some nobodies in a fake encounter and say to the world "look we are serious when it comes to cross border terror".

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:29

ldev wrote:Pathankot terror attack: Pakistan says it is working on 'leads' shared by India

National Security Advsier Ajit Doval has provided "leads" on the Pathankot Air Force base terror attack to his Pakistani counterpart Naseer Khan Janjua and sought credible action on them.
Reacting to India's move, Pakistan in a statement said that it is working on the "leads" shared by India on the terror attack.

"In line with Pakistan's commitment to effectively counter and eradicate terrorism, the government is in touch with the Indian government and is working on the leads provided by it," the statement released by Pakistani foreign office says.


Great!! Now India is giving "leads and lists" to Pakistan so that Pakistan can take action against their own terrorists!! Rose tinted glasses anyone?

And these "leads" were handed over by Doval to his Pakistani counterpart Retd Gen. Naseer Khan Janjau. Janjau is a retired Army General probably asked by the Pakistan Army to keep an eye on Nawaz Sharif.

How is this any different than India handing over dossiers and information to Pakistan post 2008 Mumbai or any one of numerous other attacks?

People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.


previous GOI never exchanged documents at the level of NSA, so that's a big difference. all the dossiers exchanged in mumbai attacks were with low level offcials, when doval presents these documents with confidence, it will have a whole new meaning to them.Also if the NSA level talks also fail to deliver justice, the talks will then move to super national security advisers (SNSA), the job posting for which is yet to be advertised. so hold on, do not just conclude anything just yet. if that still does not fix the issue, then it will go to United Nation NSA. I mean there are still couple of hops left.
Last edited by sukhish on 04 Jan 2016 23:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby CRamS » 04 Jan 2016 23:35

ldev wrote:People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.


No offense meant to you Sir, but I am sick and tired of such maacho rhetoric "Any response by India must be disproportionate". Sure, if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. But as the ease with which 4-6 Pakis almost destroyed an airforce bases and took so many valuable lives at Patankot indicates, does it give any confidence to you whatsoever that India has any capability to inflict "disproportionate response"? I applaud the bravery of our forces who thwarted an even bigger disaster, and I am greatful to them, but this attack has thrown open gaping deficiencies in India's fighting capability, and hence, 56 in chested ModiJi or "South Asian" MMS, action on the ground is simply impossible beyond reacting to what TSP throws at us. At least from my vantage point, thats what it appears. (And in this particular attack, I am pretty sure, although I have no evidence that insiders, most likely Khalistani traitors were involved).

So I think what is is required is a measured response, and try and corner TSPA/ISI on the issue of terror. Use Uncle to extent possible. Throw some jhappads across the LoC. Put up a united political front. Be ready to isolate TSP economically/diplomatically. None of this pee pee contact BS. These are all the tools at India's disposal in absence of a credible offensive military capability, and thats what ModiJi is trying to invoke IMO.

Again before this irrelevant MMS Vs ModiJi bean counting begins, yes, I as a ModiJi supporter, I agree that in terms of action, there is no difference, ModiJi himself realizes that I am sure, but its the approach and use of all tools at India's disposal thats the need of the hour.

Some Bollywood Indian nationalist, if there exists one, can make a movie about "disproportionate response" to TSP so we can fantasize, but its not on the cards in real terms.
Last edited by CRamS on 05 Jan 2016 00:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sudeepj » 04 Jan 2016 23:38

If Modi and Doval don't have options, then surely, there is a capabilities gap that needs to be bridged. Its not as if these two are cultured people who sing gazals in love and abuse in punjabi (after some single malt).

I remember reading a list of sayings in the shop of a rajasthani baniya once, identifying list of things injurious to health and wellbeing. One of them was ..".. zor kamti, gussa ghana!.." (too little strength and too much anger, ... really injurious to health!)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:45

CRamS wrote:
ldev wrote:People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.


No offense meant to you Sir, but I am sick and tired of such maacho rhetoric "Any response by India must be disproportionate". Sure, if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. But as the ease with which 4-6 Pakis almost destroyed an airforce bases and took so many valuable lives at Patankot indicates, does it give any confidence to you whatsoever that India has any capability to inflict "disproportionate response"? I applaud the bravery of our forces who thwarted an even bigger disaster, and I am greatful to them, but this attack has thrown open gaping deficiencies in India's fighting capability, and hence, 56 in chested ModiJi or "South Asian" MMS, action on the ground is simply impossible beyond reacting to what TSP throws at us. At least from my vantage point, thats what it appears. (And in this particular attack, I am pretty sure, although I have no evidence that insiders, most likely Khalistani traitors were involved).

So I think what is is required is a measured response, and try and corner TSPA/ISI on the issue of terror. Use Uncle to extent possible. Throw some jhappads across the LoC. Put up a united political front. Be ready to isolate TSP economically/diplomatically. None of this pee pee contact BS. These are all the tools at India's disposal in absence of a credible offensive military capability, and thats what ModiJi is trying to invoke IMO.

Again before this irrelevant MMS Vs ModiJi bean counting begins, yes, I as a ModiJi supporter, I agree that in terms of action, there is no difference, ModiJi himself realizes that I am sure, but its the approach and use of all tools at India's disposal thats the need of the hour.

Some Bollywood Indian antioanlist, if there exists one, can make a movie about "disproportionate response" to TSP so we can fantasize, but its not on the cards in real terms.


so if the attack happened in punjab, there are some (Khalistani traitors), if it happened in mumbai then shiv sena traitors ?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ldev » 04 Jan 2016 23:48

CRamS wrote:
No offense meant to you Sir, but I am sick and tired of such maacho rhetoric "Any response by India must be disproportionate". Sure, if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. But as the ease with which 4-6 Pakis almost destroyed an airforce bases and took so many valuable lives at Patankot indicates, does it give any confidence to you whatsoever that India has any capability to inflict "disproportionate response"?


In 1971 India broke up Pakistan, in 1987 India sent 100,000 troops into Sri Lanka, in 1988 India crushed a coup in Maldives by sending about 2000 troops. In 1999 India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of the PAF. So the capacity to take disproportionate action has existed for a long time.

Other countries....Turkey shot down a Russian airforce SU24 inspite of Russia having overwhelming military superiority. Pakistan tweaks India's nose inspite of India having military superiority.

India has the capability, just not the political will to use it. And it lost that will sometime around the turn of the century. And do not compare that puny little raid into Myanmar with what India has achieved in the past. There is no comparison.
Last edited by ldev on 04 Jan 2016 23:53, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 04 Jan 2016 23:49

sudeepj wrote:If Modi and Doval don't have options, then surely, there is a capabilities gap that needs to be bridged. Its not as if these two are cultured people who sing gazals in love and abuse in punjabi (after some single malt).

I remember reading a list of sayings in the shop of a rajasthani baniya once, identifying list of things injurious to health and wellbeing. One of them was ..".. zor kamti, gussa ghana!.." (too little strength and too much anger, ... really injurious to health!)



who says they do not have options ? pakistan is already acting on the leads provided to them. this is the first time they have started to act so fast. this is exactly called the affect of a astute leadership like modi. remember modi is a stunner, his ability to stun the other side and even his own side is what makes him different than that puppet MMS. this is no puppet PM. it's just that the other side has also learnt the art of stunning.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Mihaylo » 04 Jan 2016 23:58

sukhish wrote:
sudeepj wrote:If Modi and Doval don't have options, then surely, there is a capabilities gap that needs to be bridged. Its not as if these two are cultured people who sing gazals in love and abuse in punjabi (after some single malt).

I remember reading a list of sayings in the shop of a rajasthani baniya once, identifying list of things injurious to health and wellbeing. One of them was ..".. zor kamti, gussa ghana!.." (too little strength and too much anger, ... really injurious to health!)



who says they do not have options ? pakistan is already acting on the leads provided to them. this is the first time they have started to act so fast. this is exactly called the affect of a astute leadership like modi. remember modi is a stunner, he ability to stun the other side and even his own side (and perhaps himself) is what makes him different than that puppet MMS. this is no puppet PM. it just that the other side has also learnt the art of stunning.



lol. seriously !! :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 23:59

sunnyP wrote:Or perhaps they'll kill some nobodies in a fake encounter and say to the world "look we are serious when it comes to cross border terror".


You realize that will be a diplomatic coup in favour of India placing it publicly in the same high level of its 3.5 friends, right?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby CRamS » 05 Jan 2016 00:04

sukhish wrote:so if the attack happened in punjab, there are some (Khalistani traitors), if it happened in mumbai then shiv sena traitors ?


You may not like SS, but do you think they are anti-India traitors like Khalistanis. I am not just pulling this Khalistani angle from my back side. There are reports that indicate that this police guy changed his story a few times. Do you mean to say there is no collusion between ISI and Khalistanis? All I am saying is that an attack of this magnitude could not have been carried out without some local help. You in your perverted "secularist" mindset will want to deny any involvement of Khalistnais or local Muslims (without whose support 26/11 would have been impossible) in colluding with Pakis. This is another angle India must look at. Weed out the traitors and their sympathizers in Cong and elsewhere in the political spectrum.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2016 00:11

Steady there guys. Don't get personal. We all have long presence on forum.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 00:17

CRamS wrote:
sukhish wrote:so if the attack happened in punjab, there are some (Khalistani traitors), if it happened in mumbai then shiv sena traitors ?


You may not like SS, but do you think they are anti-India traitors like Khalistanis. I am not just pulling this Khalistani angle from my back side. There are reports that indicate that this police guy changed his story a few times. Do you mean to say there is no collusion between ISI and Khalistanis? All I am saying is that an attack of this magnitude could not have been carried out without some local help. You in your perverted "secularist" mindset will want to deny any involvement of Khalistnais or local Muslims (without whose support 26/11 would have been impossible) in colluding with Pakis. This is another angle India must look at. Weed out the traitors and their sympathizers in Cong and elsewhere in the political spectrum.


include RSS as well in that list

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 00:20

CRamS wrote:
sukhish wrote:so if the attack happened in punjab, there are some (Khalistani traitors), if it happened in mumbai then shiv sena traitors ?


You may not like SS, but do you think they are anti-India traitors like Khalistanis. I am not just pulling this Khalistani angle from my back side. There are reports that indicate that this police guy changed his story a few times. Do you mean to say there is no collusion between ISI and Khalistanis? All I am saying is that an attack of this magnitude could not have been carried out without some local help. You in your perverted "secularist" mindset will want to deny any involvement of Khalistnais or local Muslims (without whose support 26/11 would have been impossible) in colluding with Pakis. This is another angle India must look at. Weed out the traitors and their sympathizers in Cong and elsewhere in the political spectrum.


let's identify all the traitors in india, why don't you start identifying them one by one. these traitors are creating havoc. by now Mr Modi should asked the home ministry to create and app over the phone to identify traitors, he is very good at E-governance.
Last edited by sukhish on 05 Jan 2016 00:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby nirav » 05 Jan 2016 00:20

sukhish wrote:
CRamS wrote:You may not like SS, but do you think they are anti-India traitors like Khalistanis. I am not just pulling this Khalistani angle from my back side. There are reports that indicate that this police guy changed his story a few times. Do you mean to say there is no collusion between ISI and Khalistanis? All I am saying is that an attack of this magnitude could not have been carried out without some local help. You in your perverted "secularist" mindset will want to deny any involvement of Khalistnais or local Muslims (without whose support 26/11 would have been impossible) in colluding with Pakis. This is another angle India must look at. Weed out the traitors and their sympathizers in Cong and elsewhere in the political spectrum.


include RSS as well in that list


Pliss to add congress party to the list too

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2016 00:24

All are on ban watch.

Sukish starting with you.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 00:26

I knew it . I really apologize, for saying anything against Mr Modi. it's just that I cannot stop doing that. just like some folks can't stop appretiating him.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2016 00:30

OK. Lets all be together in this trying times.
After situation normal can be anti-NaMo in GDF.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 00:31

ramana wrote:All are on ban watch.

Sukish starting with you.


I will be more mindful. apologize for hurting sentiments of some folks here. but sometime can't help my self.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Dipanker » 05 Jan 2016 00:31

ldev wrote:
CRamS wrote:
No offense meant to you Sir, but I am sick and tired of such maacho rhetoric "Any response by India must be disproportionate". Sure, if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. But as the ease with which 4-6 Pakis almost destroyed an airforce bases and took so many valuable lives at Patankot indicates, does it give any confidence to you whatsoever that India has any capability to inflict "disproportionate response"?


In 1971 India broke up Pakistan, in 1987 India sent 100,000 troops into Sri Lanka, in 1988 India crushed a coup in Maldives by sending about 2000 troops. In 1999 India shot down an Atlantique aircraft of the PAF. So the capacity to take disproportionate action has existed for a long time.

Other countries....Turkey shot down a Russian airforce SU24 inspite of Russia having overwhelming military superiority. Pakistan tweaks India's nose inspite of India having military superiority.

India has the capability, just not the political will to use it. And it lost that will sometime around the turn of the century. And do not compare that puny little raid into Myanmar with what India has achieved in the past. There is no comparison.


Add to the list, in 1984 we wanted Siachen, we grabbed it.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby CRamS » 05 Jan 2016 00:39

sukhish wrote:I will be more mindful. apologize for hurting sentiments of some folks here. but sometime can't help my self.


RamanaGaru, kindly cut me some slack, but this guy is trying to be too sarcastic and clever by half.

Sukhish, India was attacked, and so your anger should be directed at those who attacked India. It is simply perverse to pile on ModiJi or RSS or whoever else you pseudo secularists don't like. This was a diabolical act by TSP against India. So Indians fighting Indians based on teir pet political peeves makes a mockery of those who valiantly laid down their lives. So enough of this MMS Vs ModiJi bean counting. We understand you support MMS. But lets focus on how to respond to TSP in a measured, calculated manner.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby CRamS » 05 Jan 2016 00:44

India's enemies abound. Look at this f@cking headline, almost dictated by an ISI agnet, and equal equal between India battling Paki sponosred terrorists, and TSP arresting a few ISIS pipsqueaks as a loyal munna.

http://news.yahoo.com/gun-battle-india- ... .html?nf=1


Gun Battle at India’s Pathankot Air Base Continues; Seven Injured in Attack on Indian Consulate in Mazar-i-Sharif; Pakistan Arrests 42 ISIS Supporters


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Muppalla » 05 Jan 2016 00:53

:rotfl:

Certain members who supported MMS for being a dove because India lacked latrines at that time are now suddenly posing as hawks and expect Modi to forget the toilets part and want him to be massively hawkish. Heights of hypocrisy is running here.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 05 Jan 2016 01:18

Most of the last couple of pages of posts have to do with BRFers themselves, and India and less to do with Pakistan. Bravo! So easily distracted!

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 05 Jan 2016 01:21

ldev wrote:People talk about deterrence in the nuclear thread all the time. What nobody realizes is that the credibility of a country's nuclear deterrence begins in actions like this. Any response by India must be disproportionate, on an equivalent target and seen to happen in the media for it to have any deterrence value for the future. Otherwise adversaries assume that with all the hardware in the world, if the political will to use it is lacking, the country can be kicked around.

CRamS wrote:No offense meant to you Sir, but I am sick and tired of such maacho rhetoric "Any response by India must be disproportionate". Sure, if wishes were horses, beggars would fly. But as the ease with which 4-6 Pakis almost destroyed an airforce bases and took so many valuable lives at Patankot indicates, does it give any confidence to you whatsoever that India has any capability to inflict "disproportionate response"? I applaud the bravery of our forces who thwarted an even bigger disaster, and I am greatful to them, but this attack has thrown open gaping deficiencies in India's fighting capability, and hence, 56 in chested ModiJi or "South Asian" MMS, action on the ground is simply impossible beyond reacting to what TSP throws at us. At least from my vantage point, thats what it appears. (And in this particular attack, I am pretty sure, although I have no evidence that insiders, most likely Khalistani traitors were involved).

So I think what is is required is a measured response, and try and corner TSPA/ISI on the issue of terror. Use Uncle to extent possible. Throw some jhappads across the LoC. Put up a united political front. Be ready to isolate TSP economically/diplomatically. None of this pee pee contact BS. These are all the tools at India's disposal in absence of a credible offensive military capability, and thats what ModiJi is trying to invoke IMO.

Again before this irrelevant MMS Vs ModiJi bean counting begins, yes, I as a ModiJi supporter, I agree that in terms of action, there is no difference, ModiJi himself realizes that I am sure, but its the approach and use of all tools at India's disposal thats the need of the hour.

Some Bollywood Indian antioanlist, if there exists one, can make a movie about "disproportionate response" to TSP so we can fantasize, but its not on the cards in real terms.

sukhish wrote:so if the attack happened in punjab, there are some (Khalistani traitors), if it happened in mumbai then shiv sena traitors ?

sukhish Ji :

With due respect and reverence I am a regular visit to Gurudwaras in the UK. The "Khalistanis" do seem to have a very strong presence especially the visitors from Canada and the USA. These visitors speak of the need of a Khalistan and have time and again replied my questions of "Khalistan will be a Land Locked State and India might deny access for Khalistani Exports and Imports" with the reply that Khalistan will get full access via Pakistan.

My apologies in advance if you take umbrage to my "words".

ramana Ji :

Please delete my post if inappropriate. TIA.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 02:29

the khalistani's are there for long time now, that movement started after 1984, in punjab people have moved along. ranting in gurudwara is lot different than doing something on the ground. also we should also know that the riot instegators of the 84 roits are also romming free. no evidence till yet ? hard to believe.
pak is pushing the envelop from LOC to IB as simple as that. they will come from where ever they can. in mumbai they via sea.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 02:30

PeregrineJi,
the point is what can India do to insulate. I do not know, the GOI probably is equally confused as well.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 02:35

Muppalla wrote::rotfl:

Certain members who supported MMS for being a dove because India lacked latrines at that time are now suddenly posing as hawks and expect Modi to forget the toilets part and want him to be massively hawkish. Heights of hypocrisy is running here.


modi himself created that hawkish image for himself. no one touted about 56 inch chest other than him. i understand that pre elections time is different than post election time. but still the promise you make in pre-election should get reflected in GOI's resolve.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2016 02:47

Folks stick to thread topic from now on. Replies can be in Off Topic thread.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 02:51

CRamS wrote:
sukhish wrote:I will be more mindful. apologize for hurting sentiments of some folks here. but sometime can't help my self.


RamanaGaru, kindly cut me some slack, but this guy is trying to be too sarcastic and clever by half.

Sukhish, India was attacked, and so your anger should be directed at those who attacked India. It is simply perverse to pile on ModiJi or RSS or whoever else you pseudo secularists don't like. This was a diabolical act by TSP against India. So Indians fighting Indians based on teir pet political peeves makes a mockery of those who valiantly laid down their lives. So enough of this MMS Vs ModiJi bean counting. We understand you support MMS. But lets focus on how to respond to TSP in a measured, calculated manner.


CramSJi,
I do not know how to respond as simple as that, the fact is as long as pak is there this will continue, they have sucessfully legitimised terror. US obviously has a good influence on PAK, but with BO at helm of affairs nothing much is to be expected. now if DT gets elected in 2017, that might change something. but then again raising expectation would be pre mature.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2016 02:52

Please respond in OT thread. No more here.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 02:55

somebody suggested grabbing more territory in siachen, I think that may not be so bad. but then again GOI would have to take a call on this one. grabbing remote areas of PAK will send them a signal that every act of terror shrinks their maneuvering space (Literally).

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby Peregrine » 05 Jan 2016 02:58

sukhish wrote:PeregrineJi,
the point is what can India do to insulate. I do not know, the GOI probably is equally confused as well.

sukhish Ji :

You, me and India - All Three.

ramana Ji : This is my Last post on the subject.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 03:00

grabbing siachen would also be pretty quite, not whole lot of halla gulla. they will get the message, trust me. india has a very well oiled machine in siachen. pak wont be able to get re-enforecements so easily. they will have a very tough time in keeping put with the situation. I think this option should pursued with urgency.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 03:02

infact siachen machine has been kept oiled just for these kinds of things.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2

Postby sukhish » 05 Jan 2016 03:04

everytime they do an attack, show them the evidence and grab about 30 sq miles of their land.


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