Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

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g.sarkar
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by g.sarkar »

Khalistan will be revived again and again by Pakistan. In this it will be helped by the English speaking democratic countries. It will end only when Pakistan is broken into 5 pieces, with each piece being easily manageable. Till that time, India can only react to the situation. A final solution to the Pakistan problem is what is really needed. Pakistan now has only few cards left to play and India has to be relentless. Finally we have a government in New Delhi that can solve this problem. You have to give Modiji some time.
Gautam
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

Police in New Delhi have issued criminal charges against those who attacked the Indian embassy in UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYlcSCw3E5A

This is possible because the attackers were themselves Indian citizens, and their attack against the embassy was carried out on Indian soil, since the embassy is Indian soil.
S_Madhukar
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by S_Madhukar »

There is a wider issue at play… the Anglos promoted Sikh as warriors and prima Donna Indians, first amongst equals look at music, movies etc . Our fault as well. Bakis would want to sow seeds of doubt that Indians are not really peaceful good boys, can be pakis and drag our reputation down with them… I am still waiting for POTA, TADA to come back in some form before this blows up in our face
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

Amritpal Singh's 'Steamy Life' Exposed: Khalistani Had Extramarital Affairs, Use To Blackmail Women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7P7AM_u6rM
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

Canada's state broadcaster, the CBC, is trying to promote a game of moral equivalency, by saying that Hindus in Canada are a mirror image of the Khalistani extremists in Canada (aka. 'equal-equal blame', 'both are equally at fault')

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcRwmjSrsd8

There have been zero attacks on Gurdwaras in Canada (none done by Hindus anyway, white extremists are another matter)
There have been a series of attacks on Hindu temples in Canada, spray-painting name of "sant bhindranwale", "hindustan murdabad", etc.
But somehow CBC wants us to believe that Canada's Hindus are "equally to blame" for this -- brown-skinned 'SouthAsian' lefties like Chandrima Chakraborty are helping to spread that narrative. Urban Naxals will never miss any opportunity.
Notice that the CBC journalist is Chinese.

Take a look at this other recent CBC article, authored by the same Chinese journalist:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rss-hind ... -1.6764114

Again, this CBC article promotes the narrative that "Canada is being infiltrated by RSS" -- citing warnings from the World Sikh Organization and the National Council of Canadian Muslims. Btw, WSO is banned in India, and is well-known for supporting Khalistan -- and again, the spokesman for WSO is Chinese.
You'll tell me that I'm being prejudiced against Chinese, but I find there are a lot of strange coincidences happening here.

The CBC has become another BBC -- a bastion of leftists and aligned ethnic lobbies.
Last edited by sanman on 25 Mar 2023 04:44, edited 9 times in total.
sanjaykumar
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

Yes Hindus gather in their mandirs every Sunday to beat each other up.

When they are not beating up their wives.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by IndraD »

Punjabi Singers and Khalistan 2.0: Musical puppets of Pakistan’s ISI


https://organiser.org/2023/03/23/166008 ... stans-isi/
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by vijayk »



Coupta lists 4 and then adds BJP is asking for Hindu Rashtra ... so Sikhs are asking for Khalistan
Last edited by vijayk on 25 Mar 2023 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
chetak
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by chetak »

@MaximeBernier

When you immigrate to Canada, we Canadians expect you to fully join our society, not just live as a foreigner among us.

That means leaving behind your old political allegiances and tribal conflicts, not try to get us involved in them, and focus on your new home, Canada.

Remember: YOU ARE CANADIAN NOW.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

You can take the Panjabi out of Punjabi but…..
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Atmavik »

vijayk wrote:
Coupta lists 4 and then adds BJP is asking for Hindu Rashtra ... so Sikhs are asking for Khalistan

I thought he will start with Modi/BJP but he puts it at the end. Long ago one of the Jut Sikhs told me that they don’t want Industry in Punjab , I thought he was concerned about the environment but now I know it’s to preserve their power.

With the Infra boom India is rapidly industrializing with west and south rightfully taking the lead , if UP under Yogi can catch up this would further push Punjab down . Sometimes people get their wish.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by vijayk »

vijayk wrote:

Coupta lists 4 and then adds BJP is asking for Hindu Rashtra ... so Sikhs are asking for Khalistan
1. Dera Sach Souda is one of their grouse. Only 20% of Jats and they feel they are being desecrated with all practices such as new Gurus. What can any Govt. do? What did Congress/SAD/AAP do? I think this is frustration of people going out of religious sphere
2. Christian conversion - When I chatted with my friend, he had no concern of Christian conversion. Even when I prodded he didn't care because they are all SC/ST. Even if they are upset, Hindus are also have the same issues
3. Some 20 and odd folks involved in some terror activities and Beant singh assassination. Since they released LTTE terrorists who killed Rajiv, why not them too (VALID )
4. Hindu Rashtra vs Khalistan. But this nonsense has to be called. These people were active in Canada and US in 2000-2010 and I have Heard many stories of Khalistan in those days too
Last edited by vijayk on 26 Mar 2023 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
Cyrano
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Cyrano »

vijayk wrote: Coupta lists 4 and then adds BJP is asking for Hindu Rashtra ... so Sikhs are asking for Khalistan
No one watches him. He is not getting millions of views. Forget him in his oblivion saar.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

You are right, India’s economic acceleration has much to do with some of these sentiments.


I hope there is literature in the sociology corpus of behaviour of groups as they lose esteem and social standing. I believe Khalistanis are such a group.

It is no coincidence that the first agitation exploded when the jatt Sikh farmer surged ahead of rest of India. There is a recrudescence now that the farmer is falling behind at a quickening pace. A visit to the Mumbai financial district or Chennai ‘s automobile factories provides a stark vision of where India and Panjab will be in 5 years time.

I have not been abash in reporting on some of the problems in the Sikh communities in Canada, so it may not be too uncomfortable to report that the socioeconomic condition of sikhs, especially jatt sikhs is significantly below the Hindu population. The hinduised sikhs do extremely well. So it is not genetic. There may be a problem of culture. One telling aspect is how struggling groups view disadvantaged people. I am not pleased to report that jatt Sikh’s routinely chide ‘chooras’. I literally have not heard a Hindu use that term, ever.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

vijayk wrote:

Coupta lists 4 and then adds BJP is asking for Hindu Rashtra ... so Sikhs are asking for Khalistan
So here's what I'd posted in the comments sections under Gupta's video:

Was Indira Gandhi building Hindu Rashtra that prompted demand for Sikh Rashtra? Don't be ridiculous. "Hindu" is a word made up by foreigners and conquerors (ie. Mughals) used this word to refer to all the various false kaffir religions of local origin, as distinct from their "one true religion" from the "one true holy land of Middle East". When Mughals saw a Jain, they didn't call him a Jain, they called him a "Hindu"(kaffir). When Mughals saw a Sikh, they didn't call him a Sikh, they called him a "Hindu"(kaffir). When Mughals saw a Buddhist, they didn't call him a Buddhist, they called him a "Hindu"(kaffir). Etc, etc. Mughals couldn't be bothered to learn or remember all the different false kaffir beliefs or their names, so "Hindu" was their catch-all word. All these local-origin sects prefer to use their own words for themselves, of course -- Sikhs prefer to call themselves Sikhs, Jains prefer to call themselves Jains, Buddhists prefer to call themselves Buddhists, etc. But the word "Hindu" still has that precedent of referring to all kaffirs in general, and in that context "Hindu Rashtra" refers to a govt that asserts the local homegrown cultures of the land, as opposed to cultures which prize their foreign roots and affiliations.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

Cyrano wrote:No one watches him. He is not getting millions of views. Forget him in his oblivion saar.
You're right -- but he watches us -- because sometimes I've given him a tongue-lashing in the comments section, which he then later brings up in a later video.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

vijayk wrote: 1. Dera Sach Souda is one of their grouse. Only 20% of Jats and they feel they are being desecrated with all practices such as new Gurus. What can any Govt. do? What did Congress/SAD/AAP do? I think this is frustration of people going out of religious sphere
This Dera thing is yet another charismatic cult, which India is overrun with so many of.

As an atheist and a rationalist, I have no fondness for any cults, but as long as they're not violating the law, I don't see what case can be made against them.

I'd personally prefer to see these Dera Sacha Sauda / Ram Rahim groups being exported to Canada and UK, in the heart of where Khalistanis live.

Let's see how much heartburn Khalistanis in Surrey, BC or in San Francisco will get when the flamboyant Ram Rahim is living across the street from them.
Hell, I'd buy tickets to watch that event.

2. Christian conversion - When I chatted with my friend, he had no concern of Christian conversion. Even when I prodded he didn't care because they are all SC/ST. Even if they are upset, Hindus are also have the same issues
There's more christian conversion going on in the countries where Khalistanis have settled overseas.
3. Some 20 and odd folks involved in some terror activities and Beant singh assassination. Since they released LTTE terrorists who killed Rajiv, why not them too (VALID )
That sounds like a race to the bottom. Then by that logic, Congis will say "why can't we stop ostracizing Jagdish Tytler, since Beanth's assassins have now been freed? Leave the past in the past!"
4. Hindu Rashtra vs Khalistan. But this nonsense has to be called. These people were active in Canada and US in 2000-2010 and I have Heard many stories of Khalistan in those days too
Khalistanis are guerrilla debaters. They use "Hindu Rashtra" as their justification, but then they'll simultaneously cite Leftists for attacking "Modi anti-secular communal fascism". Since when is Khalistan secular?

I'm wondering what will happen to AAP's re-election prospects owing to their crackdown on Amritpal?
Will even Delhi Sikhs abandon them?

I'm thinking AAP will just play their established game of trying to hop to yet another state.

Image
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sajo »

Reports that Amritpal is hiding in Nepal.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 89725.html
"The esteemed ministry is requested to inform the Department of Immigration not to permit Amritpal Singh to travel through Nepal for any third country and arrest him if he attempts to escape from Nepal using Indian Passport or any other fake passport under intimation to this mission,” a letter sent to the Department of Consular Services on Saturday said.


How many states' pols did Amrut Pal hoodwink before landing in Nepal ?

Also, where to from Nepal ? China ? Will China help him get to Kanneda given the Cheen-pasand Sarkar in power there ?
g.sarkar
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by g.sarkar »

Khalistani Toolkit EXPOSED | Will It Succeed? | Amritpal Singh Update

Gautam
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

He seems to have made it to Nepal

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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Sachin »

sanman wrote:This is possible because the attackers were themselves Indian citizens,
In that case what needs to be done is to cancel their Indian passports. UK will have to then deport them or give them asylum, but UK will have to make a choice here. And that will block the chances of these Khalistanis to ever set foot in India.
S_Madhukar wrote:the Anglos promoted Sikh as warriors and prima Donna Indians,
The Anglos (or Brits) continue to do this with Gorkhas as well. They are declared as the best warrior group on earth, their egos massaged and they would be sent in first for any major operation (Falklands?) where there is chances of heavy casualty.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Cyrano »

A very informative discussion:

sanman
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

ArmpitBaal calls for uprising by Sikhs against govt on Baisakhi



Apparently he may possibly be hiding in Nepal (probably Pakistan doesn't feel he'd be safe in Tora Bora)
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Cyrano »

Why post the scumbag's video here or elsewhere and give it more air?
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Sachin »

x-post from Internal Security thread
Amritpal Singh 'threatens' to surrender ;)
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by IndraD »

hello, Khalistan is a reaction to violent Hindutva so can we organise a colour revolution now in your country?


The Solution to India’s Sikh Protests Lies Abroad
To stop the return of separatist violence, New Delhi needs help from Western partners with powerful diaspora communities.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/28/in ... pal-singh/
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

IndraD wrote:hello, Khalistan is a reaction to violent Hindutva so can we organise a colour revolution now in your country?
Or the article is possibly saying that the Khalistan insurgency can only be stopped if New Delhi seeks strong partnership with the West.

"What insurgency?" ask surprised Indians.

"The insurgency that's about to hit you, if you don't do what we say." smiles the West. :twisted:
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by ramana »

Punjabi Subha, and Khalistan all get magically revived by the West or Pakistan whenever they feel India is rising.*
So it's par for the course.
Our media gives false narratives despite all evidence to the contrary.
Couptaji is the prime Shukracharya of this misinformation.

Before Independence, the SGPC was created to demand equal representation for them.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by ShauryaT »

I think we have to ensure that Sikhis know their real history and their immutable bond with Sanatana Dharma. I will plead with all Sanatanis to provide space and open their hearts to the Sikh sampradaya and welcome them into the larger Sanatana fold. We need to fight the separatists and also fight against this colonial inspirited project to separate Sikhs from Hindus. We need to make the gurdwaras our own and dismantle the SGPC. Ek omkar satnam!

Found this interview to be pretty spot on.

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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Cyrano »

Haven't yet seen the podcast above, but Shaurya ji, shouldn't your well intentioned appeal be the other way round? Sanatanis never considered Sikhs as totally separate from themselves from a relgio-cultural pov. I grew up (despite reading in school social textbooks that Sikhism like Buddhism, Jainism were DIFFERENT religions from Hinduism) feeling and observing that they were all branches of Hindu Dharma, each adding certain unique aspects, exploring certain ideas, taking on certain characteristics and customs, to respond to various needs of people of Bharat across geography and time.

From my point of view, Sanatanis or plainly Hindus always viewed Sikhs as one of our own. How could it be otherwise when we see their most revered gurus calling themselves Govind - the same name we chant climbing up the steps of Thirupati or Angad, Ram, Krishna, Arjun, Amar, Hari ? If we take the British concocted history and ensuing politics away, in my view Sikhs are no different than Sri Vaishnavas or Veerashaivas. It's the consequence of freedom to explore or specialise that Hinduism offers.

So if any significant effort is to be made, it's by those mistaught and mischievous microminority of Sikhs who continue to indulge in Khalistani type political & territorial separatism from India, and also those misguided and wilfully blind wider section of Sikhs who indulge in relgio-cultural separatism.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by ShauryaT »

Cyrano: You have effectively summarized the video posted. We have mismanaged this once before, hence the appeal. But yes, the handful of miscreants need to be dealt with kid gloves off. The religio-cultural separatism aspects is what needs to be opposed by all sanatanis and I am of the view that there is an ideological, political and historical aspect which needs to be dealt a hard hand and a social and economical aspect which needs compassionate treatment.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanman »

Khalistanis in Canadian province of British Columbia hang effigies of Modi and Shah, calling for them to be hanged for "genocide against Sikhs"

Apparently, when dynasty cultists go on rampage, then blame for this should first be placed on opponents of the dynasty cult :roll:

They're continuing to whip themselves up into greater levels of frenzy

Image


I again assert that Pakistan is now desperate after removal of Art 370, and they know that road to J&K runs through Punjab. It was by setting Punjab on fire during 1980s that Pakistan was able to spread the fire to neighboring Kashmir nextdoor. That's what they want to repeat again, and Khalistanis are again their "useful idiots" toward that goal.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Cyrano »

ShauryaT wrote:Cyrano: You have effectively summarized the video posted. We have mismanaged this once before, hence the appeal. But yes, the handful of miscreants need to be dealt with kid gloves off. The religio-cultural separatism aspects is what needs to be opposed by all sanatanis and I am of the view that there is an ideological, political and historical aspect which needs to be dealt a hard hand and a social and economical aspect which needs compassionate treatment.
Shaurya ji,
While we agree on the diagnostic of this "minority", what I'm objecting to is
1.The by default absolving of Sikh population for their omissions and commissions just because they are a minority.
2.The inference that its somehow the fault of the hindu majority and the conclusion that therefore, hindus have to make amends and efforts to "bring them back".

I dont know if this is really your intent, but generally I've seen this line of thought quite widespread.I see a constant refrain of the same nature by secularvaadis wrt muslim minority as well. And when such efforts are made, we call it appeasement and then a section of hindus gets critical of another and we polarise ourselves.

I also reject the idea that "we have mismanaged this once before". Why do Sikhs have to be so gullible? Why doesnt their silent majority speak up vociferously against separatism and conversions, collusion with Pakis, desecration of gurudwaras, distortion of their philosophy and history? The 1984 riots perpetrated by Hindu congoons did not spread across India precisely because the vast majority of hindus consider Sikhs as their own and strongly condemned those riots DESPITE the assassination of a quite popular and respected sitting Prime Minister of the nation. Hindus rightly did not let the actions of a few colour their view of the rest, and displayed great maturity, responsibility and brotherly tolerance didn't we ? So what mismanagement have hindus (not political parties) done ? I'd welcome some examples.

The responsibility to rediscover their true roots as taught by the Gurus and preserve the umbilical cord with Santana Dharma lies first and foremost with the Sikhs themselves. They need to clean up their houses, gurdwaras and acts. Hindus will of course be understanding and helpful, like we have always done, but this cross is for the Sikhs to bear, to collectively do the required societal transformation from within and then throw the cross away to re-join the vast, benevolent Sanatana family.

I doubt even if the BJP has the guts to plainspeak like this, but I'll give them a pass since its a political party. But we hindus must show the mirror to Sikhs without fear of antagonising them.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjayc »

^^ True. Hindus get slaughtered and banished by peacefuls in Kashmir, and Hindus are urged to "win the trust back" of Muslims. Same with Khalistanis -- after 25,000 Hindus got slaughtered by Sikh terrorists in Punjab in 1980s, it is Hindus who apparently mismanaged something and should learn from their mistakes and win the trust back of Sikhs. The more Pakistan sends terrorists to kill Indians, the more it asks Indian to "do more" to win the trust of Pakistanis. It is just a clever trick of the assassin.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

What do Hindus really think of Sikhs?
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Lisa »

For someone whose grandfather's bogh was held in a gurdwara by the Sikh community, without our family's consent, as they had assumed this their responsibility for the amount of respect they held our Hindu family in, I have VERY regretfully now stopped attending services at 'our' gurdwara. The 'local' gurdwara on the other hand has been out of bounds for many years as they openly support khalistan!
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by ShauryaT »

Lisa wrote:For someone whose grandfather's bogh was held in a gurdwara by the Sikh community, without our family's consent, as they had assumed this their responsibility for the amount of respect they held our Hindu family in, I have VERY regretfully now stopped attending services at 'our' gurdwara. The 'local' gurdwara on the other hand has been out of bounds for many years as they openly support khalistan!
I and my family share some very similar sense of belonging to the gurudwaras. The organization to oppose is the SGPC and this is where we need political action but instead our government continues to support the colonial project.
Election to the SGPC and management committees: The Act provides that every Sikh who is above 21 years of age and is registered as a voter, will be entitled to vote in the elections to the SGPC and management committees. However, no person who trims or shaves his beard or hair will be entitled to vote in these elections. The Act creates an exception for Sehjdhari Sikhs who trim or shave their beard or hair, and allows them to vote. The Bill removes this exception, disentitling Sehjdhari Sikhs from voting if they carry out these activities.
The Sikh Gurdwaras (Amendment) Bill, 2016
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by sanjaykumar »

The mindless rituals in India are keeping the country back. Discuss.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by ShauryaT »

Cyrano wrote: While we agree on the diagnostic of this "minority", what I'm objecting to is
1.The by default absolving of Sikh population for their omissions and commissions just because they are a minority.
2.The inference that its somehow the fault of the hindu majority and the conclusion that therefore, hindus have to make amends and efforts to "bring them back".
1. We should never blame an entire community for the errant actions of a few and those in power. It is the quickest way to alienation, discord, disunity and a threat to integrity of the nation.
2. I will never "blame" ANY entire community. Tough medicine can be administered with a smile. The community has to be "compassionate" at the people level, let the political class deliver the tough medicine is the message, but instead my lament is the opposite often is the case!

Hope my intent is clear.
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Re: Social Problems in Punjab and their Strategic Impact

Post by Atmavik »

question for those living in Aus , Can or UK . Doesn’t the attack on Hindu temple classify as a Hate crime? I thought such a crime had a much higher punishment?
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