Status of Indian Nationals abroad

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Arjun
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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby Arjun » 09 Jun 2016 07:33

This ish the age of BEEG Data that anybody over a certain IQ can access..

Indian American population in the US is 3.5 Mil+. Indians in GCC are 7 Mil+ out of total pop of 50 Mil+ (around 15% of the entire region's population).

Thoda precision in numbers mangta, milords.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby JwalaMukhi » 09 Jun 2016 16:47

The real solution is a extremely simple. India should be welcoming and willfully enforce that it is the defacto homeland for Hindus, no matter where they are from. It should operate just as Israel treats and welcomes what it deems as defacto requirement for someone to be considered an Israeli.

But going by the past record of how the Nehruvian state structure operates, it will question if Vishy Anand is worthy of being a citizen of India. The Nehruvian legacy has to be terminated post-haste with prejudice. This has cost quite a lot for Indians, inclusive of diasporas. There is natural linkages that people of Bharatiya origins have and they are not leveraged to the extent that it can be.

With that said, the ground reality has been extremely poor for any Indian Nationals finding in such a hapless situation. Be it internal displacement of Kashmiris in India or extreme desperation with which people fled Burma (Myanmar). The Rangoon exodus should still remain fresh in Indian minds. But most of the elites in India indulged in poaching and exploiting the misery. Many films were made on the lines of showcasing the poverty (similar to Apu triology). On the whole only positive side, the common people in India are extremely accommodating and empathetic. At the end of the day, the government machinery is set up to be predatory and unfriendly to Indians, but common India people (not the NGO vultures) will be succor (just as during Chennai floods or as any other time of calamity).

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby ramana » 09 Jun 2016 20:33

Arjun wrote:This ish the age of BEEG Data that anybody over a certain IQ can access..

Indian American population in the US is 3.5 Mil+. Indians in GCC are 7 Mil+ out of total pop of 50 Mil+ (around 15% of the entire region's population).

Thoda precision in numbers mangta, milords.


I want us to think in terms of vulnerabilities and hazards.
If a hazard meets a vulnerability we get a disaster.

Risk management (RM) thinks in terms of Likelihood and Consequences. Scale of 1-5
If high (5) likelihood meets high (5) consequence we have a disaster.
So in RM both have to be High.

In disaster management you are ready with contingency plan regardless of the scale of vulnerability or hazard They are considered high.

Our Middle East population vulnerability is they will always be foreign.
Hazards are regime change, instability, economic collapse. Doesn't matter all are a 5.

All we are doing is planning for the eventuality.

if this approach is against odds of people's thinking they are welcome to stay away from the thread.

Why come and say the hazard wont happen or there is no vulnerability?

its such thinking that has brought disaster after disaster on India since first Battle of Panipat.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby Arjun » 09 Jun 2016 21:59

I have no issues with this thread ! It has been clarified that this is a contingency-planning thread, even though I might assign a low probability to the same contingency based on current oil price trend...

I did have a problem with some imprecise numbers for diaspora thrown about by another poster - and hence my post providing the correct figures.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby JE Menon » 09 Jun 2016 22:03

^^Moi? I did put some numbers in there. If it is me, please let me know where wrong.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby Arjun » 09 Jun 2016 22:14

No not you...but another poster who used your post as basis and also estimated Indian American population to be in 1 - 3 Mil range.

You talked about 'local' population and that too the smaller GCC nations...If we stick to all of GCC, locals constitute only around half of the 50 Mil - remaining being immigrants. Indians are the biggest segment with ~15% of overall population.

These seem to be the latest available figures for GCC non-nationals: http://gulfmigration.eu/total-populatio ... 2010-2015/

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby JE Menon » 09 Jun 2016 22:41

Correct. The reason I excluded Saudi is because I said earlier in this thread that there's a real risk there. In the other countries, there isn't one really. But the mass evacuation scenario could simply emerge from a crisis involving Saudi which then triggers in the other states an exodus based on a sense of insecurity ...

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Jun 2016 23:55

India should be welcoming and willfully enforce that it is the defacto homeland for Hindus, no matter where they are from. It should operate just as Israel treats and welcomes what it deems as defacto requirement for someone to be considered an Israeli.


IIRC, one reason why the "OCI" was modified into "OINC" was that ppl in Fiji and Africa begged GOI **NOT** to offer dual citjenship. They said in that case their friendly locals would grab their property and all civil rights and drive them out saying that they are, after all, INDIAN citjens. The proposal above would have similar implications, besides violating the Constitution in all sorts of ways.

OTOH, GOI's claimed attitude/internal feelings are that what u r suggesting is already reality - India offers sanctuary for all Indian-origin ppl unless they are also Pakistani origin.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby Prem » 10 Jun 2016 02:02

In case of Chaos,why evacuate, use the opportunity to occupy , send troops and sit there in Gulf , beat them to pulp and keep the property as compensation for trouble. Strategic location & Qatari gas alone good enough Reward to realize this Khawab of doing old Hisab Kitab is well within our capability.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby shiv » 10 Jun 2016 08:43

If we assume 4 million refugees from the Gulf region appearing on Indian shores, or coming in after an active Indian evacuation this would be an internal political issue.

I suspect that 50% of returnees would be Muslim and a very large percentage from Kerala, and perhaps AP/Telengana. They will end up in homes of their extended families.

What will be their fate? Let us look at what happened to people on Chennai who lost all their belongings and had homes destroyed. What is their fate? Does anyone have any follow up on people affected by the last Tsunami? That will give us an indicator of what will happen to these refugees.

Can they expect anything more from the government? IMO probably not. Is the government obliged to do something special for them? To a very small extent yes. The government will help and give grants, maybe house them in camps in government schools and other property. These will never be adequate. Ultimately Indian origin refugees will have to be Indian citizens. If they are Indian they will have to have a permanent Indian home address to which they go back. If it is so long since they left India that they don't have a home address they will be housed in refugee camps and NGOs tasked with helping them to build their lives.

If the housing of refugees a state subject or a central subject? I don't know but it sure is going to involve both. Since the majority will be Indian citizens with some Indian state of origin, the individual state will have to oversee their settlement along with central government aid. Unless the refugees have relatives/family to help I doubt if they can get more.

One thing the Indian government can do is to issue a warning to all Indians in the Gulf that if there had to be mass evacuation this is about all they can expect according to existing laws and that they had better digest that fact. If they feel that they are going to have to evacuate to India suddenly, they must keep a close watch on the political situation in their country of stay while preparing for life in India of they must come back. That means investing in real estate and savings schemes that will give them some income in India.

India the nation has plans for all sorts of refugees as part of disaster management. Planning specifically for Gulf returnees is only a variant of that. But unlike people running from floods or earthquakes it will be expected that people working in the Gulf or other countries are aware of their situation and plan for their future. The Indian government can/will only do so much and no more. It is up to people who made smart career moves in going abroad retain their smartness when it comes to being kicked out and do not expect mama GoI to look after their health and wealth forever. It ain't even happening for people in India - so evacuees can fuggedabahtit. Anyone recall the name "Kashmiri Pandit"?

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby darshhan » 10 Jun 2016 08:51

^^ If more than 50% are followers of islam, then what is the point of bringing them back. It is better if they stay there.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby shiv » 10 Jun 2016 09:14

darshhan wrote:^^ If more than 50% are followers of islam, then what is the point of bringing them back. It is better if they stay there.

:D
The only way this can happen is as follows

India ensures that west Asia remains stable for the next 5-10 years while a government that wants to do this gets 2/3 parliament majority and passes a constitutional amendment. Then let things collapse ..

That will also give time for those who want India as their home to make their place "pukka" in India before the constitutional change. Then those that remain in Gelf can see whether it feels better to be rejected by ummah brothers in Gelf or by non Ummah back in India

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby panduranghari » 11 Jun 2016 03:41

West Asia cannot be stabilised by anyone, including the US. Stabilisation of this region means boots on the ground. We might be paid by monarchies in oil or gold or both to enable this happens, but that money will never be enough as the vested interests will fight against Indian military with proxies.

What India did in Yemen, won't happen again. People are truly on their own. And most haven't got enough money to get out and/or passport to leave at moments notice.

Why not think laterally?

If you had to leave your abode and move urgently, have you even considered an evacuation plan? I bet 99% of people do not think in these terms. The inertia is too strong.

The poor have even more so. The fundamental reason why they are in west Asia is to escape crippling poverty and lack of opportunities. And they will be lambs for slaughter.

Unless these groups organise themselves- impossible currently as autocratic monarchies survive on total subjugation of dissent.

The thing is, it's not just those in west Asia who are at risk. Those in Europe-Americas are too. It's just they choose not to see it.

The best GOI can do is paratroop ammunition to the Indians in Middle East to defend themselves until some help arrives. I really doubt if we can do much except try the best to evacuate.

I do not understand why GOI does not give travel advisories like some nations do?

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby disha » 11 Jun 2016 04:28

Jhujar wrote:In case of Chaos,why evacuate, use the opportunity to occupy , send troops and sit there in Gulf , beat them to pulp and keep the property as compensation for trouble. Strategic location & Qatari gas alone good enough Reward to realize this Khawab of doing old Hisab Kitab is well within our capability.


+72 houris for you Jhujar'ji

PS: Will Rana Ayyub kind do?

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Jun 2016 05:21

Travel Advisories don't mean diddly except to harass businesses. Most travel is not discretionary. Would you cancel your $2000 air ticket because, say, there is a terrorist attack in progress in Mumbai? I didn't (but the airline did..) Or, say, today there has been a 5.8 quake in Southern Cal, with predictions that if San Jacinto shakes, San Andreas may explode as happened 200 years ago. So--- would you cancel your travel plans to LA based on this? Or, very heavy rains are predicted for Mumbai and B'looru, which probably means floods: would you cancel your travel plans? Wars are a lot grimmer (not grimmer than a major quake) but people hope for the best, or they are going to be with their loved ones, so they will go anyway.

Major evac plans do distinguish a real nation from the slums. That one effort in Yemen was a terrific example. India needs to get together a good fleet of large aircraft, plus maybe a whole lot of ship-based helos that can get people out of harm's way in a hurry. Plus a rapid action amphibious/ paratroop force that can go in and hold a perimeter until people can be got out.

The embassies and consulates are terribly short-staffed. Instead there needs to be standing corps of Instant Consular Aphsars who can go into any nation and very quickly set up communications, emergency money help, etc etc.

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Re: Scenario: Return of Indian Nationals from Middle East du

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2016 11:22

Kerala reports 87% drop in remittances for month of April due to oil price drop.

Twitter has a picture of the news story.

K Murali #DefundHRCE ‏@dwimidhaM 4h4 hours ago
Karma planning something for LDF govt
@HKupdate


Image

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby KLNMurthy » 22 Jun 2017 22:12

UlanBatori wrote:India is hostage to the fact that so many Indians are in the gelf and KSA. Cannot antagonize those petty sultans. Anyway, I don't see what else India should do in present situation except offer extra flights - which is a great move. 1000 more net exfiltration per week means 650 weeks to bring them all out, so this is only a trickle. I assume that KSA and gelf do not ban overflights by Indian jets so Qataris can also just reroute their bijnej and tourist travel via Kochi and Mumbai. I wonder if they can't use Indian planes to fly to all points, come to think of that. So India is already helping. Beyond that, whom should India go bomb, hain? The sea is probably too shallow for submarines, too narrow for aircraft carriers. Too far away for Su-30 raids.


One side benefit of these massive airlifts is that they demonstrate logistical capability--if need be, there could be a reverse airlift of little olive green men carrying tiny khukris also.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2017 23:28

Karthik S wrote:
India Samvad‏ @india_samvad 20m20 minutes ago
India to airlift its citizens stuck in blockade-hit Qatar from next week


Aside, this ME conflict will create huge problems for us. Where will people get employment and livelihood.




In January, I had posted an email from RamaY who asked the forum to discuss who to repatriate the Indian workers in Gulf as the turmoil is increasing and the population has to be properly assimilated in Indian context as some of them have lived too long aboard. And a few could be radicalized.

What I got was derision and people took umbrage at posting the message of a banned member.

Now it is real and how to accommodate 650K Indian expatriates from Qatar?
IB and RAW will also have a tough time.

My view is to accept all ideas as feedback and deal with them on its merits and not be biased about where it came from. Had we continued the discussion by now we would be ahead of the curve so to speak.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Rudradev » 23 Jun 2017 01:50

Distance via Persian Gulf from Doha to Muscat is 907 km. Once they get to Muscat they are relatively safe; they still have to be brought home to India but the urgency is not as great as for the primary evacuation. Oman is a friendly country, besides, and they may be willing to help us out as a transit point.

Another route is Doha to Bandar Abbas (Iran), 514 km across the Persian Gulf, and then overland to Chahbahar. However, if Iran gets involved in hostilities that's a non-starter.

Container vessels travel at 24 knots average speed (i.e. about 45 km/h). A single container vessel (with IN escort) could do Doha to Muscat in approximately 20 hours. Then refuel, turn around, and go back for more evacuees. Multiple container vessels could do the circuit around the clock, assuming IN can spare enough assets to provide escort.

Realistically speaking I can't think of a faster way to do this. Airlifting 650,000 people simply isn't feasible. The sea voyage will be very high-risk but not sure how else we could move such numbers.

The outstanding questions are:
(1) Could evacuees travel for ~20 hours on container vessels? Not comfortable I'm sure, but is it even feasible (in terms of sanitation, food, emergency services etc)?
(2) All-important: how many evacuees could we safely transport in a single container vessel? Accordingly, how many voyages, over how many days, will it take to get our people out of Qatar?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Rudradev » 23 Jun 2017 01:55

As a point of comparison, Dunkirk evacuation (Operation Dynamo) took 9 days start to finish. 340,000 evacuees. 693 British vessels involved (of which around 230 were sunk). The routes used were between 102 and 161 km (MUCH shorter than Doha-Muscat). The shortest possible routes could not be used because of the threat of shore batteries and extensive mining.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Jun 2017 02:37

All too old. A modern cruise liner can carry 4000 in top-class comfort. Translated to desi train standards, 10,000 easy. With enough pakistans and feeding places. And I think there are PLENTY of cruise liners to be rented, not very costly.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Jun 2017 02:42

For perspective, the terms "Doha" and "Oman" in my mind bring back memories of the articles I read in Malloo Matrubhoomi weekly way back, when many desis died in a ship fire/wreck in those parts. Ppl used to go (families and all) on ships in those days. Consider that until 1970s planes could only take only like 100 ppl each, and range was not that great, and it was extremely expensive.
Actually (knock on wood!) airfare today for yooEss-desh roundtrip even high-season can be no higher in dollars than it was in 1970s!!!! Only thing is that rupee is now less than 1/10 of what it was then - courtesy of oil imports.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby chanakyaa » 23 Jun 2017 03:18

ramana wrote:...
My view is to accept all ideas as feedback and deal with them on its merits and not be biased about where it came from. Had we continued the discussion by now we would be ahead of the curve so to speak.

Some different perspective, call it crazy. What I find truly astonishing is the fact that someone decided that 25% of Indian population, if the numbers are right, in Qatar must be relocated in case of an armed conflict. Relocate, 25% of the population, really? If we add Pakis, Bangladesi, and Lankans could that number reach 40-50%? If the % are really that high for a South Asian population in Qatar, why the hell move people in first place? If Qatari bigwigs really need that high % of foreigners, Why can't part of the Qatar be carved out for all South Asians to relocate temporarily perhaps until things quiet down, if GoI does not want any part of it? Why does GoI relocate its population, every time there is a conflict, like worker bees are moved in California from one almond farm to another. Why the hell GoI is obligated to react like a effing tiny island country?

Added later: according to one estimate India, Bangladesh and Nepal is almost 50%

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Singha » 23 Jun 2017 04:15

I really think its unworkable idea at many levels to evac 600k indians plus lankans and nepalis and bdeshis which are surely another 100k. Why should we bear the cost of others power plays? Are the saudis paying us for it no.

The regime there is richest in arab world and has a duty to make sure the food and economy is sustained else they will have to abdicate. Instead of being mute spectators. .these lakhs of expats need to come out and democratically march on streets. If regime cracks down then we need to go in and do a regime change or else put a lot of pain on them.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Jun 2017 07:41

Let me post a small grenade and scoot. Suppose u have 4 ppl in a family in a home. They decided to have the floor redone and their plumbing redone and their roof redone. Hired a total of 10 contractors to do these.
Now there are 10 contractors in the home and 4 "natives". The 10 decide that democratically, the home belongs to them. The occupy the living room couch, raid the refrigerator, in fact stock the fridge with their beer bottles and displace the baby food from there. They run the washer-dryer.

Is there a problem with this story?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby srin » 23 Jun 2017 07:50

chanakyaa wrote:
ramana wrote:...
My view is to accept all ideas as feedback and deal with them on its merits and not be biased about where it came from. Had we continued the discussion by now we would be ahead of the curve so to speak.

Some different perspective, call it crazy. What I find truly astonishing is the fact that someone decided that 25% of Indian population, if the numbers are right, in Qatar must be relocated in case of an armed conflict. Relocate, 25% of the population, really? If we add Pakis, Bangladesi, and Lankans could that number reach 40-50%? If the % are really that high for a South Asian population in Qatar, why the hell move people in first place? If Qatari bigwigs really need that high % of foreigners, Why can't part of the Qatar be carved out for all South Asians to relocate temporarily perhaps until things quiet down, if GoI does not want any part of it? Why does GoI relocate its population, every time there is a conflict, like worker bees are moved in California from one almond farm to another. Why the hell GoI is obligated to react like a effing tiny island country?

Added later: according to one estimate India, Bangladesh and Nepal is almost 50%


+1. Easier to send 50K troops to maintain "goodwill" than evacuate all Indians from there.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Shanmukh » 23 Jun 2017 11:09

Rudradev wrote:Distance via Persian Gulf from Doha to Muscat is 907 km. Once they get to Muscat they are relatively safe; they still have to be brought home to India but the urgency is not as great as for the primary evacuation. Oman is a friendly country, besides, and they may be willing to help us out as a transit point.

Another route is Doha to Bandar Abbas (Iran), 514 km across the Persian Gulf, and then overland to Chahbahar. However, if Iran gets involved in hostilities that's a non-starter.

Container vessels travel at 24 knots average speed (i.e. about 45 km/h). A single container vessel (with IN escort) could do Doha to Muscat in approximately 20 hours. Then refuel, turn around, and go back for more evacuees. Multiple container vessels could do the circuit around the clock, assuming IN can spare enough assets to provide escort.

Realistically speaking I can't think of a faster way to do this. Airlifting 650,000 people simply isn't feasible. The sea voyage will be very high-risk but not sure how else we could move such numbers.

The outstanding questions are:
(1) Could evacuees travel for ~20 hours on container vessels? Not comfortable I'm sure, but is it even feasible (in terms of sanitation, food, emergency services etc)?
(2) All-important: how many evacuees could we safely transport in a single container vessel? Accordingly, how many voyages, over how many days, will it take to get our people out of Qatar?


Rudradev-ji,
Very interesting check of the logistics involved. But if we are considering a temporary move to a third country, before bringing people back home (700-800K if we include Indians, Nepalis, Lankans & Bangladeshis). Apart from the two you have mentioned (Oman or Iran), there may be a third possibility - Iraq. The finest natural harbour in the Persian Gulf is Basra - has been so since ages. Basra also has an international airport (second largest airport in Iraq after Baghdad). The distance from Doha to Basra is 689 kms. Basra also may have the ability to temporarily house the Indian refugees before bringing them back home. Also, Basra is a much bigger port than Bandar e Abbas. Basra's average handling capacity was 27K tons/day http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... turns.html as oppossed to Bandar Abbas having a handling capacity of 1.5 million tonnes of cargo/year (10K tons/day, even if we assume that the port is open for only half the year). http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/bandar-e-abbasi

The other point is how many ships can India press into service if needed (both civilian & military navy)? How long will it take to relocate 7-8 lakh people hundreds of kilometres?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Karthik S » 23 Jun 2017 11:18

I find Chanakyaa sir's reco the best, carve our temporary area in Qatar and station our people there, we can easily send food for 600k people, deploy our troops, a assign a squadron of MKIs for air patrolling and a kolkata class with its MF-STAR can monitor skies over the area.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Singha » 23 Jun 2017 12:12

^ exactly why the hell should we cut and run and give up our footprint there. running away has become so ingrained people rush to it as the #1 option and start discussing "it will be proving our logistics" :rotfl:

we should be sending food under naval escort

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/06/2 ... atar-daily


Iran says it is exporting over 1,100 tonnes of fresh fruits and vegetables from its southern ports to Qatar every day.

The announcement was made by Mohammad Mehdi Bonchari, the director of ports of Iran's Bushehr province.

Bonchari added that the shipments were made from Dayyer, Bolkheir and Genaveh ports.

He added that Bushehr had historic trade ties with Qatar, adding that the same ties were being used to export food to the Persian Gulf state which is caught in a diplomatic dispute with its neighbors which started in early June.

Iran opened a food corridor with Qatar immediately after the start of the county’s diplomatic crisis.

The Iranian national carrier Iran Air announced on June 11 that it had sent planeloads of fruits and vegetables to Qatar for several days each weighing around 100 tonnes.

The flights originated from Tehran and Shiraz.

Other officials said the fruits and vegetables had been supplied for exports to Qatar from Alborz and Fars provinces.

On the same front, Iran’s media said in mid-June that the country had sent its first cargo with 180 tonnes of fruits and vegetables from Bandar Lengeh port to Qatar.

Other reports said Iran was also looking into exporting dairy products to Qatar and certain negotiations to the same effect were underway.

Officials have also been quoted by media as saying that Iran could ship at least 45 tonnes of dairy products to Qatar.

Furthermore, the head of Iran's cattle exporting association earlier told the domestic media on June 11 that the country had sent 66 tonnes of beef to Qatar, adding that another 90 tonnes was expected to follow.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Singha » 23 Jun 2017 12:14

push come shove we should go in and carve our a Al-tanf type 'deconfliction zone' on the coast where we will fire on anyone threatening our or UN camps there.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby IndraD » 23 Jun 2017 12:44

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 271229.cms
Indian media houses should be careful in crafting headlines or giving space to dubious media houses on their platform..when there is tension in ME & new king keeping close eye on who is on whose side..with millions of expats in Saudi not a good idea.
In fact Saudi's first demand (of many) is Qtr must shut down Al Jazeera for talks to resume.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby chanakyaa » 23 Jun 2017 16:29

UlanBatori wrote:Let me post a small grenade and scoot. Suppose u have 4 ppl in a family in a home. They decided to have the floor redone and their plumbing redone and their roof redone. Hired a total of 10 contractors to do these.
Now there are 10 contractors in the home and 4 "natives". The 10 decide that democratically, the home belongs to them. The occupy the living room couch, raid the refrigerator, in fact stock the fridge with their beer bottles and displace the baby food from there. They run the washer-dryer.

Is there a problem with this story?

Fair story and valid argument. But Indians (and other Asians except pigs) are living and working, and raising family in Qatar probably for a long time without any contracting agreement with the state of Qatar. They may have specific agreement with their employer but not with the state. Yes, it sounds ridiculous for outsiders to occupy simply based on numbers. You see all those expats, continue to be Indian citizens b'cas states like Qatar do not give citizenship. If given choice, the majority would become Qatari citizens. So they are the "problem" of GoI because they are Indian citizens not by choice (I'm sure, some would continue to be Indian citizens even if Qatari citizenship was offered). Yes GoI benefits from repatriation and blah blah. But mass reloc or moving back 25% of Qatari population, why is it GoI responsibility? Just because they are technically Indian citizens? Especially, if India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Lanka make 60% of population, why the hell their governments work their ass off to relocate their citizens just because Qatar is now less favorite of GCC. GoI should work with Qatar and clearly state that in case of likely conflict, India would create a de-escalation zone (temporary one and not permanent occupation) within Qatar, preferably closer to where supplies from India can be shipped. Also, communicate clearly to Saudi cabal, that you touch Indian occupied territory within Qatar, and you get lot more that Modi's returned medal of honor. If that means temporarily moving beer bottles into the fridge and throwing baby food out, so be it.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Jun 2017 17:46

I am not arguing either way, just stating a problem. Why can't the family learn to fix their own roof? Do the floor themselves? Fix the plumbing? But the common understanding is that the contractors are there strictly to do the job that they are contracted to do. They have no rights to the property (unless they don't get paid). I suppose the family should be expected to call Emergency if one of the contractors has a sudden illness/injury, but even there, the contractors are supposed to come with their own insurance etc. If the contractors ask for a glass of water, I am sure the family should oblige - but that will go on the SatisfactionSurvey saying the contractor organization is incompetent. Or like Trump organization (someone posted experience b4 the Yoou Ess election about Trumpistan tactics) they will present a bill for that. So beyond humanitarian concerns, the contractors have no right to the house, property etc. I am sure the plumber likes working inside the house rather than in his native village, because the house has airconditioning, clean drinking water etc. Now if the house comes under attack from the neighborhood Big Goonda, what is the family's obligation? I would say that the contractors/their company, being as much threatened by the BG, should pitch in for defense. But maybe the same companies are under much bigger contracts to the BG.

In short, the contractor company is the one under obligation to bring its people back in times of trouble. Getting to nations and citizens, as long as XYZ is a citizen, s(he) has every right to expect the home nation to get him/her and their family back to safety. For the home nation to say: "Hu? V? Bhy?" is not at all correct, moral or humane. India's standard claim at every opportunity, per the diplomats, is "when has Bharat denied entry and some succour to anyone, let alone those of Indian origin?" But I don't see that it is practical to go and threaten war on the BG for this. Qatar may have 650K desis. How many are in KSA+UAE+Kuwait?

Qatar particularly I am sure would appreciate Indian help to get the boycotts and blockades ended. But for how long? As Roberta Flack crooned:

Tonite with words unspoken..
U say that Ah'm the only one...
But will the spell b broken..
Hwhen the nite meets the mawneeng suuuuun?


And actually, by increasing flights, sending several container ships of food etc, India has shown surprising spine with surprising speed. I am sure that these actions bring teeth-gnashing in Riyadh etc. 750 containers in the first shipment to run the blockade! For a small nation, that is a huge influx. If you think about why the famed KSA/Bahrain Navies and Air Forces did not stop those shipments, you will see that all those Su-30s, Agnis etc DO earn their keep, but much more, the Saudis etc are not keen to biss off India. THAT is real power. Much more than sailing a couple of missile-carrying destroyers up and down the Gelf.

What is desperately needed, even at this late hour, is for desh to set up (I mean insist on) high-quality banks and investment firms so that para-desis/ NRIs can invest their money safely, so that worst comes to worst, they can simply get on a plane and return, with no fear. Currently, (topic for other forum, sure) this does not exist: the banks are as reliable as Bumrah's foot-placement. The Mutual Funds are impossible. TDS is an annual nightmare, and errors don't get corrected for years. The whole mentality is to rob the paradesis at every opportunity. Worst are central-govt. institutions in this respect, incidentally.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Singha » 23 Jun 2017 19:19

What have our 600k ppl in qatar done except pack 1 bag and preparing to wail for goi funded evac? How about a march with flaming torches to show support to qatar beyond just a money making gig and burn the effigies of the sauds on main street?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby vinod » 23 Jun 2017 20:53

UlanBatori wrote:Let me post a small grenade and scoot. Suppose u have 4 ppl in a family in a home. They decided to have the floor redone and their plumbing redone and their roof redone. Hired a total of 10 contractors to do these.
Now there are 10 contractors in the home and 4 "natives". The 10 decide that democratically, the home belongs to them. The occupy the living room couch, raid the refrigerator, in fact stock the fridge with their beer bottles and displace the baby food from there. They run the washer-dryer.

Is there a problem with this story?

Nothing wrong with the story! If it is possible, then it is alright! :mrgreen:

Reminds of me a much older story of group of door-to door sellers who came by ship and fought the family and then took over the family home and jewels and shipped everything back leaving them in poverty and in a ravaged state!

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby IndraD » 23 Jun 2017 21:56

Singha wrote:What have our 600k ppl in qatar done except pack 1 bag and preparing to wail for goi funded evac? How about a march with flaming torches to show support to qatar beyond just a money making gig and burn the effigies of the sauds on main street?

and the Indians in Saudi & UAE will pay price for that..these kings & Royals are maniacs..as some one said we are hostage to Gulf cos of our nationals spread all over.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby IndraD » 23 Jun 2017 21:59

UlanBatori wrote:actually, by increasing flights, sending several container ships of food etc, India has shown surprising spine with surprising speed. I am sure that these actions bring teeth-gnashing in Riyadh etc. 750 containers in the first shipment to run the blockade! For a small nation, that is a huge influx. If you think about why the famed KSA/Bahrain Navies and Air Forces did not stop those shipments, you will see that all those Su-30s, Agnis etc DO earn their keep, but much more, the Saudis etc are not keen to biss off India. THAT is real power. Much more than sailing a couple of missile-carrying destroyers up and down the Gelf.

lets not forget Saudi gave citizenship to Zakir Naik not long ago who is on terrorist list in India...

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Singha » 23 Jun 2017 22:04

>> and the Indians in Saudi & UAE will pay price for that

and if they do they will suffer a exodus that will put them deeper in the rabbit hole. india should make it clear to all concerned that pain will be inflicted.

we should stop acting like scooby doo given our size both in population there and as a market for their POL and proximity. they cannot escape our wrath being permanently in our reach across the arabian sea.

the yemenis starving for years are not scared of the saudis, why do we give them WAY more respect than they deserve.

if the US or UK arbitrarily jails and beats up 1000s of desis for waging a democratic march somewhere , this forum and entire indian govt and media will be up in arms over it, but why do we "accept as our place" the 2nd and 3rd class treatment that we expect indians to get over in gulf ? is it ok ?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby Rudradev » 23 Jun 2017 22:07

Singha wrote:push come shove we should go in and carve our a Al-tanf type 'deconfliction zone' on the coast where we will fire on anyone threatening our or UN camps there.


Never. Going. To. Happen.

Has everyone forgotten there is a gigantic CENTCOM base here at Al Udeid? The largest one in West Asia.

It goes completely without saying that the US is the guarantor of Qatar's sovereignty.

If Trump and the Saudis have indeed worked out a deal to this effect, maybe CENTCOM will stand down while the Saudi/UAE/Egyptian etc. coalition stomps on Qatar.

Is it remotely believable that they will stand down while Indian Armed Forces mount an expedition to forcibly occupy Qatari territory, interfere with its political system (and by extension-- economy), and take measures to establish a long-term, open-ended military presence in the Persian gulf?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Postby IndraD » 23 Jun 2017 22:14

Singha saab I am saying based on experiences from working in UAE... (even though I was a govt official)
Words can't describe fear expats live in these Arap worlds all the time.
If India has to start striking fear> lets start with reversing the working conditions of blue collar workers in Saudi etal.
Many of them don't even have passports with... Many months salary mortgaged with employer...and I have heard stories of emplyoers even exploting wives of Indians going from Keral.
We were seen as weak nation till 2010 in Gulf: don't know situation now. But then even Phillipines embassay was way more powerful than India's.


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