Pakistan's IT infrastructure watch

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 21 Jun 2016 09:08

ISLAMABAD: Foreign direct investment (FDI) rose 10.5 percent to $1.084 billion during July-May as compared to $980 million in same period of last fiscal year, depicting an increase of 103.3 million, official revealed on Monday.

The overall communication sector comprising telecommunication, information technology and postal and courier services have registered $55.7 million FDI with $155.8 million inflow and $100.1 million outflow, posting a decline of $15.84 million in IT sector in first eleven months of current fiscal year.

The data showed that $13.5 million inflow and $29.3 million outflow was registered in IT sector during July-May (2015-16), besides $4.5 million in software development and $1.3 million in hardware development. On other hand, FDI inflows for IT services were recorded at $7. 7 million and outflow at $29.3 million.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/business/21-Ju ... investment

Supercomputation in Pakistan ( from wiki)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomp ... n_Pakistan

*If already existing, mods can merge it. But forum definitely requires this thread, separate from economic watch.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Jun 2016 09:13

hmmm.. shastriji

How about the existng Bositive Neuj thread? The content seems to be positive news - especially Pakistanis supercomputer prowess

partha · Post by **partha** » 21 Jun 2016 09:16

A school owned by JuD (LeT) in Muridke -

partha · Post by **partha** » 21 Jun 2016 09:17

JeM's new seminary in Bahawalpur -

partha · Post by **partha** » 21 Jun 2016 09:20

Old infrastructure being demolished to make room for new ones in Abottabad near Islamabad -

partha · Post by **partha** » 21 Jun 2016 09:24

CPU of Pakistan's IT infrastructure in Islamabad -

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 21 Jun 2016 09:25

shiv wrote:hmmm.. shastriji

How about the existng Bositive Neuj thread? The content seems to be positive news - especially Pakistanis supercomputer prowess

Technological capabilities (what ever existing) and direction of investment requires separate thread but can be merged. Apparently then it will not give any scope to track what Pakis are upto in Jehadi IT infrastructure.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2016 02:16

^^^ Agree. In future cyber warfare will be a new jihadi threat if not already.
So tracking all points capability for TSP is a good thing.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Jun 2016 06:21

PLA Unit 61398 & 61486 are primarily the cyber warfare units of China and are engaged in a covert/overt cyber war with the US & India. As the US and China have entered into a cyber agreement and as the US and India collaborate on cyber terrorism in future, I expect that for 'pluasible deniability' reasons PLA would shift into its client state, Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2016 07:21

How much does geography matter for cyber-threats? Apart from "taking over" hacked machines in some country and using them, it would be possible to have a sleeper in a nation who deliberately allows his machine to be "taken over" and used as an "inadvertent" client to attack others. Even if this machine is located, it means nothing.

Last week some Indian sites were hacked by Pakistanis. Has anyone pinpointed the location and identity of those hackers?

A few weeks ago millions were siphoned from Bangladeshi banks. Has anyone located the hackers beyond saying that the Chinese played a role? New reports about IT infrastructure in Pakistan means zilch and to that extent this is a useless thread - just another Pakistan thread with an even narrower focus. IT news from Pakistan, when not referring to terrorism and fraud has been totally fake with reports of huge profits and huge expansion and great innovation. We have followed this from time to time in the existing Pakistan threads.

But there must be thousands of Indians and people from other countries who have Axact degrees. No one knew. Naturally. Anyone who does anything illegally in the IT sector will hide his tracks. Having a separate thread for following "Infotech" in Pakistan is IMO a useless exercise. Heck we don't even have an IT thread for China which is the papa of cyber attacks on India

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Jun 2016 07:29

shiv wrote:How much does geography matter for cyber-threats?

Practically none.

Apart from "taking over" hacked machines in some country and using them, it would be possible to have a sleeper in a nation who deliberately allows his machine to be "taken over" and used as an "inadvertent" client to attack others. Even if this machine is located, it means nothing.

What I meant was that non-cyber resources could be used more effectively by the Pakistanis (rather than the Chinese) to mount cyber attacks. Pakistan's access to India is much bigger than China's.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2016 07:36

SSridhar wrote: What I meant was that non-cyber resources could be used more effectively by the Pakistanis (rather than the Chinese) to mount cyber attacks.

Agreed - but my statement was in the context of the utility of a thread which could just as easily serve as a Pakistani propaganda tool - give the types of reports we get from Pakistan about information technology and in fact the reports that started this thread which sound more like boasts and sales talk than any BRF style project to "watch" the unwatchable (in this case)

Here are quotes from the first post. Normally this would bring laughs in the STFUP. Why is it serious in a new thread?

Foreign direct investment (FDI) rose 10.5 percent to $1.084 billion during July-May as compared to $980 million in same period of last fiscal year, depicting an increase of 103.3 million, official revealed on Monday.

The overall communication sector comprising telecommunication, information technology and postal and courier services have registered $55.7 million FDI with $155.8 million inflow and $100.1 million outflow, posting a decline of $15.84 million in IT sector in first eleven months of current fiscal year.

The data showed that $13.5 million inflow and $29.3 million outflow was registered in IT sector during July-May (2015-16), besides $4.5 million in software development and $1.3 million in hardware development. On other hand, FDI inflows for IT services were recorded at $7. 7 million and outflow at $29.3 million.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 22 Jun 2016 14:44

shiv wrote: Agreed - but my statement was in the context of the utility of a thread which could just as easily serve as a Pakistani propaganda tool - give the types of reports we get from Pakistan about information technology and in fact the reports that started this thread which sound more like boasts and sales talk than any BRF style project to "watch" the unwatchable (in this case)

Here are quotes from the first post. Normally this would bring laughs in the STFUP. Why is it serious in a new thread?

The similar was the attitude of Indian planners, when Pakistan began their nuclear program. You definitely need reports from Paki media, finally neither RAW or ISI would share details with you. What you can do is cross check it with neutral report from different media.

Finally whatever you get to know about arms, sales and doctrine comes from a open source media reports, what is the use of putting it here in that thread? That could also be Propaganda.

IT infrastructure not only provides Pakistan access to technology but other hand also gives India opportunity to penetrate into their market.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 22 Jun 2016 15:16

This is what we call as a real propaganda by Pakistan to lure investment into IT industry

http://www.moitt.gov.pk/gop/index.php?q ... dmVudHM%3D
By Rabiya Sulaiman

Pakistan’s IT industry has a come a long way and is today the fastest growing export sector of Pakistan. From less than $20 million in annual exports back in 2000, the country’s annual IT exports have crossed the $2 billion mark now at an annual growth rate of 30 to 40%.

Moreover, this is that sector of the country’s economy, which is capable of providing a full spectrum of services, ranging from low-end BPO services to high-end enterprise grade IT solutions. This extremely vibrant part of Pakistan’s economy is made up of a significant number of large IT companies which hold local back offices or representative offices.

The quality of services offered by these local organizations has in turn ensured that some of the largest businesses in the world come to Pakistan looking for relevant services to meet all their IT needs. These include Halliburton®, BMW®, Toyota®, Daimler Chrysler®, AT&T®, NYSE®, British Petrolem®, Petronas®, Caltex®, Sears®, and many more.

It is also pertinent to note here that a large number of our local IT Professionals are working in North America, Europe and Middle East who get IT projects outsourced from their foreign clients to afore-mentioned back offices in Pakistan.

But no country in the world, no matter how great the services they, or rather the businesses operating within that country offer, could hope to get work unless they have some support from the government also. In this case, it is PSEB that comes to our rescue.

PSEB’s Role in Promoting the Local IT Industry

Talking to Asim Shahryar Husain, Managing Director Pakistan Software Export Board (PSEB), IDG discussed its role in promoting the country’s IT export industry.

Asim Shahryar joined PSEB as its Managing Director in July 2014. A technocrat by profession, with over 21 years of professional experience in technology marketing and business planning, he has been CEO of COMSATS Internet Services where he successfully restructured the ISP from a loss making entity to a commercially viable operation.

He has also worked in both technical and marketing management positions at Viewlogic, Siemens, MarketFirst, IONA, LMKR, Transworld, and Wi-Tribe. Furthermore, he holds a Bachelors degree in Computer Systems Engineering from Stanford University, California and an MBA in Marketing from Duke University, North Carolina.

With such an impressive background, what are Asim Shahryar’s plans for PSEB to further their motto? “My mission at PSEB is to make the organization more responsive to the needs of the IT industry of Pakistan and to accelerate the growth of IT exports,” he says.

“To achieve these objectives, PSEB has set in motion several projects and programs that focus on improving the perception of Pakistan as an attractive destination for IT outsourcing.”

These programs include subsidized participation of IT companies in international exhibitions, establishment of new IT parks, low cost office space and bandwidth in IT parks, international certifications for IT companies such as CMMI and ISO, IT internships and trainings for IT graduates, and linkages with foreign investors and customers.

Asim continues by saying, “We believe in getting feedback from the IT Industry on a periodic basis to ensure that we invest in programs and events which are of interest to the industry. To achieve this end, we have held three seminars with CEOs of IT companies in Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad so far, and we conduct regular online surveys with our member companies also.”

This is the level of research in their best Institute and whatever they have written above is a complete lie.

http://research.ciitlahore.edu.pk/Group ... jects.aspx

1)Intelligent Priority-Assignment Mechanism for Biomedical Sensor Networks

2)Dynamic routing in wireless multimedia sensor networks

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 22 Jun 2016 16:39

interestingly no chinese company outsourced its work to paki it company. bad friend.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2016 18:22

Shastri wrote: The similar was the attitude of Indian planners, when Pakistan began their nuclear program.

Do you have any cites for this? I believe this is complete nonsense.

Shastri wrote: You definitely need reports from Paki media, finally neither RAW or ISI would share details with you. What you can do is cross check it with neutral report from different media.

You are saying that Paki media reports will tell us things that RAW will not tell us. As far as I am concerned we have a thread dedicated to news reports from Pakistan where IT news is frequently discussed along with other stuff that RAW and ISI are not telling us

Shastri wrote: IT infrastructure not only provides Pakistan access to technology but other hand also gives India opportunity to penetrate into their market.

Now you are making me laugh. We have followed Pakistan on here for over a decade and you are the first person who says that by following IT news from Pakistan India will be able to penetrate Pakistani markets. You mean Pakistan will pay us for services and we on BRF will find out by tracking that on here?

In any case I have expressed my objections and will simply stand by and watch if anything more than humor comes out of this.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 22 Jun 2016 19:05

^^^Shashtriji, you need to clarify if it is Information technology or International Terrorism.

wig · Post by **wig** » 22 Jun 2016 19:16

This article will shed some light on the history of information technology in pak. It is illustrative of their mindset. The gents were selling a pirated software. which some of their customers were copying. The sense of entitlement led these Pak businessmen or software chaps to infect the already pirated software so that it affected the users. Today this group is a leading IT provider.

http://ethw.org/Computer_Viruses

In January 1986, two brothers, Basit and Amjad Farooq Alvi, created “Brain A,” the first computer virus to attack the MS-DOS operating system, in Lahore, Pakistan. The programmers, aged 17 and 24, respectively, ran a computer store that sold software—both their original creations and pirated versions of popular programs like Lotus 1-2-3 and WordStar. Alarmed that their customers were illegally copying their software, they created a “friendly” virus designed to track how far the programs had spread and to punish the piracy. It was the first of millions of viruses to strike personal computers, and the dawn of the $4 billion anti-virus industry.
In creating the virus, the brothers’ purported targets were customers who illegally copied a heart monitoring program they designed for IBM-compatible computers. But they also included the virus on the 5.25 inch floppy disks storing software that they had pirated themselves and sold to American tourists. These buyers paid as little as $1.50 for programs that cost hundreds of dollars in the United States.

When buyers got home and loaded the software, a virus infected the boot sector of their floppy disks. The virus occupies three sectors and displaces the normal boot sector in order to mimic the boot process. It slowed down the floppy disk drive, but generally did not infect the hard disk. As a result, users often did not notice their computers were infected. When they copied the program and distributed it to other users, floppy disks inserted in their computers became infected. Unlike a modern virus, of course, its destructive potential was limited to computers exposed to an infected disk.

All along, the brothers were selling pirated versions of foreign software to Pakistani buyers that was free of bugs, under the rationale that computer software could not be copyrighted in Pakistan. But the software they sold to Americans contained the virus.

Perhaps the most surprising part of this story was that the brothers actually included their names, addresses, and phone numbers in the lines of infected code, urging victims to “Contact us for vaccination.” When the infected boot sector is successfully read, often there is text displayed to the user regarding that that their computer had been infected with a virus. These text vary in display, and are dependent on the programmer. [1]They soon received numerous calls from the United States and Europe demanding that the programmers disinfect their computers. A media frenzy ensued. The New York Times, TIME Magazine, and other outlets all reported on this act of programmer retribution.

The Brain Virus was relatively harmless, though some instances have been known to overlay FAT and data areas, its original purpose was designed to scare users who were pirating software. It was the earliest known MS-DOS virus and was also the first example of a "stealth" virus. When a user requests to view the original boot sector, the infected system will display the original boot sector, deceiving the user into believing that nothing had changed [2].

Basit and Amjad Farook Alvi never faced criminal charges but claimed to stop selling infected software in 1987. They became leaders in Pakistan’s technology industry, and now run Brain Net.

Brain Net is currently the largest service provider in Pakistan with a presence in over 350 cities, and one of the largest within the Middle East for the consumer and corporate sector. It was established in 1982 and is one of the first ISP's in the Internet Service Industry in Pakistan. In 1992, Brain Net was the first to innovate the emailing system in Pakistani region, and to incorporate commerce internet services to the area. Currently Brain net owns the largest Optic Fiber network in Lahore in which many IT companies are subscribed to, and hold an agreement under the Local Loop License (LLC) by Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) to run Telecom operations in Lahore under BrainTEL.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 22 Jun 2016 22:59

ranjan.rao wrote:^^^Shashtriji, you need to clarify if it is Information technology or International Terrorism.

Ranjan ji .. why not? What you suggest is definitely one of the areas of it's implementation. Cyber Je had is the term which pakis may use soon.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 23 Jun 2016 13:02

Instead of just looking at the IT infrastructure in Pakistan (LOL!), we should also look at the kind of industrial infrastructure that exists there. For example, iron & steel plants, non-ferrous foundries, plastics, electronics, ceramics, automobile and aviation to show inconsistencies in Pakistan's proclaimed military capabilities and its industrial infrastructure to achieve those mil-capabilities. For example, how can a nation that cannot even do medium-tech foundry work or low level electronics manufacturing, boast about having a missile program or fighter jet program? A country that cannot build a scooter engine wants the world to believe that it has a missile program?

Such statistics & data points will go a long way to destroy western or DDM arguments when they try to peddle nonsense like Pakistan is a normal country rather than a military with a country; and how brazenly China-US have armed a rogue military nation; and how massively wide the gap is between India & Pakistan in terms of industrialization for anyone to even try to do an equal-equal.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 23 Jun 2016 13:42

shiv wrote: Do you have any cites for this? I believe this is complete nonsense.

Any how there have been many mistakes while dealing with the neighbour , specially at political level. Otherwise there wouldn't be any other nuclear neighbour except China.

shiv wrote: You are saying that Paki media reports will tell us things that RAW will not tell us. As far as I am concerned we have a thread dedicated to news reports from Pakistan where IT news is frequently discussed along with other stuff that RAW and ISI are not telling us

Please read what I have posted. And please read two more times. I don't see any problem having a specific thread to discuss IT industry and it's so called future in Porkistan.

shiv wrote: Now you are making me laugh. We have followed Pakistan on here for over a decade and you are the first person who says that by following IT news from Pakistan India will be able to penetrate Pakistani markets. You mean Pakistan will pay us for services and we on BRF will find out by tracking that on here?

Most probably along with CPEC Pakis would be designing a model to build their IT infrastructure, they do not have money that's a different question. The point is how can and from where would they be able to get access to such technology which they can use for military purposes.

shiv wrote: In any case I have expressed my objections and will simply stand by and watch if anything more than humor comes out of this.

A lot of Humor will come out but I don't mind having a thread dedicated specially for IT watch.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 23 Jun 2016 13:55

Chandragupta wrote:Instead of just looking at the IT infrastructure in Pakistan (LOL!), we should also look at the kind of industrial infrastructure that exists there. For example, iron & steel plants, non-ferrous foundries, plastics, electronics, ceramics, automobile and aviation to show inconsistencies in Pakistan's proclaimed military capabilities and its industrial infrastructure to achieve those mil-capabilities. For example, how can a nation that cannot even do medium-tech foundry work or low level electronics manufacturing, boast about having a missile program or fighter jet program? A country that cannot build a scooter engine wants the world to believe that it has a missile program?

This is exactly my point. And not just that , but go to the page of their best Uni and see the level of research they have. But when we talk about Porkistan, their method of procurement is way different. They depend on black market and other ways of getting the stuff. That's what dangerous is.

Without having good super-computation capabilities, the reports have been coming that Pakistan has achieved good level of N warhead miniaturisation.

Even after the embargo , due to nuclear test, on both India and Pakistan, the Porkis did high level fluid dynamics calculation and simulations on what computer? This is what brings me to here to start a new thread.

I know there is none they stole it from China. But what if they procure from somewhere?

Such statistics & data points will go a long way to destroy western or DDM arguments when they try to peddle nonsense like Pakistan is a normal country rather than a military with a country; and how brazenly China-US have armed a rogue military nation; and how massively wide the gap is between India & Pakistan in terms of industrialization for anyone to even try to do an equal-equal.

Pakistan is a military ruled country and highly destabalised one. But any technology which Pak procures goes into the hands of Military.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2016 14:54

Technical capability in miniaturaization of warheads is no longer a big deal as will be evident from the graph below. The less technically adept nation witll miniaturize by using ("wasting") more fissile material for the same bang.

Miniaturization is only a problem if you want to get your nukes less than 40 cm in diameter. If you can deliver >40 cm one need not give a rats ass about miniaturization. For <40 cm one can use more Pu and less conventional explosive and still get a useful bang.

The real issue is fissile material availabilty

Xerox Khan is on record saying that China supplied enriched Uranium to Pakistan as early as 1986, and since then China has set up Pu producing reactors in Pakistan. Supercomputing or no supercomputing they have bums.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2016 14:58

Posting again

Pakistan and Nasr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJvLNrZzdU

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 23 Jun 2016 15:49

shiv wrote:Technical capability in miniaturaization of warheads is no longer a big deal as will be evident from the graph below. The less technically adept nation witll miniaturize by using ("wasting") more fissile material for the same bang.

Miniaturization is only a problem if you want to get your nukes less than 40 cm in diameter. If you can deliver >40 cm one need not give a rats ass about miniaturization. For <40 cm one can use more Pu and less conventional explosive and still get a useful bang.

The real issue is fissile material availabilty

Xerox Khan is on record saying that China supplied enriched Uranium to Pakistan as early as 1986, and since then China has set up Pu producing reactors in Pakistan. Supercomputing or no supercomputing they have bums.

This is a good post but it doesn't solve the purpose of this thread. Yes, there are ways one can miniaturise the warhead. But there is no harm if India is vigil about what are the IT developments happening in it's neighbourhood through some research or stealing from china. It should be seen as a part of CPEC too and not just military application.

And not just that, seeing India's ABM capabilities, Pakistan will not sit idle. They are bunch of India centric ba'tards. They will even try their best to get the N tip <40cm.

There are lots of application of super-computing and which helps in many ways, be it electronics or mechanical or geography. Every one knows this well. Why let Pakis even have that?

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 23 Jun 2016 17:58

Chandragupta wrote:Instead of just looking at the IT infrastructure in Pakistan (LOL!), we should also look at the kind of industrial infrastructure that exists there. For example, iron & steel plants, non-ferrous foundries, plastics, electronics, ceramics, automobile and aviation to show inconsistencies in Pakistan's proclaimed military capabilities and its industrial infrastructure to achieve those mil-capabilities. For example, how can a nation that cannot even do medium-tech foundry work or low level electronics manufacturing, boast about having a missile program or fighter jet program? A country that cannot build a scooter engine wants the world to believe that it has a missile program?

Such statistics & data points will go a long way to destroy western or DDM arguments when they try to peddle nonsense like Pakistan is a normal country rather than a military with a country; and how brazenly China-US have armed a rogue military nation; and how massively wide the gap is between India & Pakistan in terms of industrialization for anyone to even try to do an equal-equal.

Chandragupta Ji :

Here is some information of Bhilai Steel Mill and also Pakistan Steel Mill as both these plants are of Russian Origin :

Founded 1955, the Bhilai Steel Plant was a Mothballed Russian Plant which was dismantled and shipped to India. Seemingly the “Payment” by the GOI was made at the time the Russians started dismantling the Mothballed Plant. Commencing Production in 1959 with an Initial Capacity of about One Million Tonnes it now produces about Three Million Tonnes. I believe it is the Cheapest Producer of Steel in the SAIL Group if not in India.

http://www.paksteel.com.pk/
http://www.paksteel.com.pk/organ_our_history.html
Pakistan Steel Mills Founded 30 December 1973; with an initial Capacity of 1.1 Million Ton of Steel - Expandable upto 3.0 Million Ton per annum - The completion of the steel mill was formally launched by General Zia-Ul-Haq the then President of Pakistan on the 15th of January 1985. Pakistan Steel Mills Plant has been shutdown for possibly Two to Three Years.

Cheers

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2016 20:04

Shastri wrote: There are lots of application of super-computing and which helps in many ways, be it electronics or mechanical or geography. Every one knows this well. Why let Pakis even have that?

You have forgotten or you don't know that today's quad core processors give desktops the number crunching power of Cray "Supercomputers" of the 1980s. Nuclear bombs did not even need that for development. So what are you imagining?

Somewhere in the archives of this forum I have made a list of all the occasions since the 1960s when India has complained to the US not to give arms to Pakistan. Till very recently they got F-16s and AMRAAMs and EO targeting pods. Reagan turned the other way when China transferred an actual nuclear bomb design, and enriched Uranium to Pakistan in the mid 1980s. You are saying that Pakistan will not get supercomputers?

Pakistani nuclear scientist's accounts tell of Chinese proliferation

Do you really think that supercomputers of some sort are going to stay out of Pakistan? You misjudge the idiocy of the US and the chicanery of ummah brother nations like Turkey and KSA?

Supercomputers alone and Information Technology does not make nuclear bombs and you seem to have convinced yourself that it does. Much of this has been discussed repeatedly in existing threads and this is just an example of thread proliferation where you are trying to justify this thread by linking it to the dangers Pakistan poses in terms of nuclear weapons and trying to credit Information Technology and supercomputers.

Here is one existing thread on the forum where these things can be discussed:
Pakistan nuclear capability, fissile material and sites

Here is another thread
Deterrence

Here is another thread in the archives
Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation

So what did you say this thread was about?

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 23 Jun 2016 23:35

shiv wrote: You are saying that Pakistan will not get supercomputers?

They will definitely, but which when how and from where? What is their existing capability, how much indegenously they can enhance that and what up-gradations can be done. What will be the exact utilisation of this supercomputation.

I am not necessarily talking about Nuclear program. World knows their track record and how they got the technology. There are multiple applications for this like space, electronics and even launch vehicle which in the end land up into enhancing their military capability in the region as part of arms race.

Keeping a track of their super computation capability of country which is known for terrorism and stealing nuclear tech is not bad.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 07:11

Shastri wrote:
I am not necessarily talking about Nuclear program. World knows their track record and how they got the technology. There are multiple applications for this like space, electronics and even launch vehicle which in the end land up into enhancing their military capability in the region as part of arms race.

Keeping a track of their super computation capability of country which is known for terrorism and stealing nuclear tech is not bad.

Now you are shifting the goalpost.

The best space programs in the world were developed without super computers, and I repeat that todays desktops are faster than yesterday's supercomputers and Pakistan has them already.

This means that "multiple applications for this like space, electronics and even launch vehicle" can be done by Pakistan with or without supercomputers of today as they were done by every nation on earth who have the capability today. We need to watch for things about those programs that we can modify or change or at least counter. That means watching the supply/creation of high tech alloys and electronic equipment; developments in chemistry/fuels, suspicious purchases made by Pakistani benaami entities. Watching IT development for the purposes you have stated is a useless exercise. Most reports are boastful bluffs anyway. You are simply cooking up new excuses for a thread that I personally still think is useless as a separate thread. "Higher Education in Pakistan", "Tracking explosives and ballistics research in Pakistan" or "Metallurgy in Pakistan" would be as relevant or of better utility than this thread.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 24 Jun 2016 07:34

shiv wrote:
Shastri wrote:
I am not necessarily talking about Nuclear program. World knows their track record and how they got the technology. There are multiple applications for this like space, electronics and even launch vehicle which in the end land up into enhancing their military capability in the region as part of arms race.

Keeping a track of their super computation capability of country which is known for terrorism and stealing nuclear tech is not bad.
Now you are shifting the goalpost.

The best space programs in the world were developed without super computers, and I repeat that todays desktops are faster than yesterday's supercomputers and Pakistan has them already.

This means that "multiple applications for this like space, electronics and even launch vehicle" can be done by Pakistan with or without supercomputers of today as they were done by every nation on earth who have the capability today. We need to watch for things about those programs that we can modify or change or at least counter. That means watching the supply/creation of high tech alloys and electronic equipment; developments in chemistry/fuels, suspicious purchases made by Pakistani benaami entities. Watching IT development for the purposes you have stated is a useless exercise. Most reports are boastful bluffs anyway. You are simply cooking up new excuses for a thread that I personally still think is useless as a separate thread. "Higher Education in Pakistan", "Tracking explosives and ballistics research in Pakistan" or "Metallurgy in Pakistan" would be as relevant or of better utility than this thread.

The way they were developed , you cannot develop them any more. Because the platforms are not available and technology has changed and is now dependent over embedded systems.

Developing programming languages for satellites, upgrading cryptography for telecommunication, having robust system to infiltrate into military network is all part of cyber and electronic warfare which deals with IT.

The metallurgy also requires super computers, the chemistry also requires super computer and further more Information technology gives boost to economy.

you can open multiple threads to discuss metallurgy or chemistry or mathematics in Pakistan I don't mind. But wasting time on discussing why this thread is required is insane.

This is one facility in US which accommodates some of the fastest super computation capabilities.
https://asc.llnl.gov/facilities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_ ... Laboratory

why, you can go through the wiki page..
Similarly any such facility in Pakistan would give them a lot of assistance in analysing things.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 07:39

Shastri wrote: you can open multiple threads to discuss metallurgy or chemistry or mathematics in Pakistan I don't mind. But wasting time on discussing why this thread is required is insane.

Of course you don't mind.

If you don't know jackshit about metallurgy in Pakistan we are not going to learn more about that by studying about computers in Pakistan. Opening multiple threads of limited utility where information is sparse is a waste of time and in the case of Pakistan just another example of thread proliferation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 07:42

Shastri wrote: This is one facility in US which accommodates some of the fastest super computation capabilities.
https://asc.llnl.gov/facilities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_ ... Laboratory

why, you can go through the wiki page..

Here is one more link on those lines
Supercomputer quietly puts U.S. weather resources back on top

How are these relevant to Pakistan?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 07:47

I can suggest something for you to work on Shastriji.

Look at the first post of every Pakistan discussion thread (Sunni Terrorist thread) and you will find a list of useful links about Pakistan which gives enough information about Pakistan for the interested reader to spend several days reading. Here is the link
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p2029297

If you have sources that give useful information about Infotech in Pakistan post them in the Pakistan thread, say why they are relevant and if good enough they can be included in the first post. You are bypassing a system that exists for information sharing on this forum by starting what I believe is a completely useless thread that creates a redundant parallel line of discussion rather than the one-source repository we have developed over 10-12 years

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 24 Jun 2016 08:03

shiv wrote:
Of course you don't mind.

If you don't know jackshit about metallurgy in Pakistan we are not going to learn more about that by studying about computers in Pakistan. Opening multiple threads of limited utility where information is sparse is a waste of time and in the case of Pakistan just another example of thread proliferation.

Of course we are not willing to open any such sort of threads. But please explain me why US and the UN had put embargo on India and Pakistan for importing super computation capabilities from the west if it not important?

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl30689.pdf

There is other evidence that loosely coupled, parallel processing systems can be
easily and cheaply constructed from parts available world-wide. These systems excel
in research applications that rely on computation rather than input/output (the ability
to support many users simultaneously) functions. Reportedly, the computers that are
most adept at such militarily significant applications as cryptography and simulation,
prime targets of current export controls, could be the easiest to obtain.33
Other observers believe the United States can restrict access to the highest
computer technology by limiting exports. They maintain that American-made
computers are perceived as superior, and thus carry greater cachet than products from
other nations. They note that the purchase of an American-made computer product
also buys superior networking and service, often at a better price. Control advocates
maintain that these distinctions are significant, that qualitative differences are
important.34
In addition, networking a parallel processing system, as those without access to
advanced computing technology must do to increase computing capability, presents
additional challenges distinct from those faced by engineers of commodity
computers. Andrew Grove, CEO of Intel, related how configuring together 9,000
microprocessors into a large scale parallel processing system “took a large group of
people and two and one-half years to build.” He concluded, “the physical technology,
the hardware technology implicit in building these large parallel machines is not the
same as the physical technology used in building commodity machines.”35 This
account seems to lend credence to the belief that higher power computing is
controllable to some degree.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 24 Jun 2016 08:06

shiv wrote:I can suggest something for you to work on Shastriji.

Look at the first post of every Pakistan discussion thread (Sunni Terrorist thread) and you will find a list of useful links about Pakistan which gives enough information about Pakistan for the interested reader to spend several days reading. Here is the link
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p2029297

If you have sources that give useful information about Infotech in Pakistan post them in the Pakistan thread, say why they are relevant and if good enough they can be included in the first post. You are bypassing a system that exists for information sharing on this forum by starting what I believe is a completely useless thread that creates a redundant parallel line of discussion rather than the one-source repository we have developed over 10-12 years

If you read my first post on this thread I have already mentioned if there is any dedicated thread already existing please merge. But I am doubtful!

I suggest let Mods change the title of this thread and make it more fancy.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 08:12

Shastri wrote: But please explain me why US and the UN had put embargo on India and Pakistan for importing super computation capabilities from the west if it not important?

There is a word for this. It is "sophistry"

No one has claimed that supercomputation is not important. So quit making specious claims as if someone said that

A thread dedicated to watch Pakistani supercomputing capability is a useless, redundant thread without relevant information of developments within Pakistan in technological fields in which that supercomputation is involved or can be developed by stealing or by using 20 year old supercomputing tech that is freely available now even to North Korea, let alone Pakistan.

Computers are tools. Lots of things can be done. Great animated movies can be made. Looking at tools can only indicate potential. It cannot reveal facts

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 08:15

Shastri wrote: If you read my first post on this thread I have already mentioned if there is any dedicated thread already existing please merge. But I am doubtful!

I suggest let Mods change the title of this thread and make it more fancy.

Why don't you do that? Like a baby who craps and knows that parents will clean up - you start a thread and then ask someone else to do the honours.

You are not a baby and it is fully within your capability to start a relevant discussion in the appropriate thread.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 24 Jun 2016 08:19

shiv wrote:
Why don't you do that? Like a baby who craps and knows that parents will clean up - you start a thread and then ask someone else to do the honours.

You are not a baby and it is fully within your capability to start a relevant discussion in the appropriate thread.

Looks like you want to keep it .................... if that's the case then let Mods do the needful.

member_27991 · Post by **member_27991** » 24 Jun 2016 08:51

We should have a few RAA agints running a few of their IT projects.
Some companies we can target could be:
Djinnfosys
Shariacon
Sunniversal Studios
aShia peacific consultancy
...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2016 09:04

rshinde wrote:We should have a few RAA agints running a few of their IT projects.
Some companies we can target could be:
Djinnfosys
Shariacon
Sunniversal Studios
aShia peacific consultancy
...

Amazam.zam
Or-e-qatl