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India-US relations: News and Discussions III

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
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India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2016 06:27

Last edited by SSridhar on 27 Jun 2016 08:46, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link added

member_22733
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby member_22733 » 27 Jun 2016 10:08

TSJones wrote:oh sure.....yer comparing 1962 incident to the korean war.... :roll:

boss, we had to send you guys a couple plane loads of machine guns in '62 for crying out loud......you guys were poorer than temple mice... :shock:


Putting this out there for posterity, and because the stench of pretentious sacrifice and of imagined privilege is just too glaring to be ignored.

I am in no way as objective as a mod and I trust the current mods who do a wonderful job, but in my very humble opinion, people with such attitudes above have absolutely no place on a forum like this.
Last edited by member_22733 on 27 Jun 2016 10:11, edited 1 time in total.

Hitesh
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 27 Jun 2016 10:11

Why? He's, for a better lack of description, our forum's little good Yankee boy. He brings us a fresh perspective, a new take on things.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 27 Jun 2016 10:16

LokeshC

It's true, the kind of poverty we were in at the time was worse than well fed temple mice. Many millions got less access to food than temple mice did. TSJ thought it necessary to stick it in really deep, but he has his reasons I suppose. His call. This happened less than 20 years after a 1000-year subjugation.

On our part, we have to ensure no return to that situation. BTW there are people in that state still in our country. We need to keep that in mind as we plan planetary exploration. Else it's irresponsible.

member_22733
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby member_22733 » 27 Jun 2016 10:28

^^^ JEM and Hitesh garus.

My last on this (and also IMVVVVVHO):

The fact that there are people living like that (or were living like that) does not add to the discussion. It is entirely tangential and meant to taunt/troll. He is doing the same thing CNN/BBC and other assorted media houses are doing, i.e. deliver a message and a taunt packaged in a two punch combo.

Trolling has a place and time, but I guess if any country can produce trolls on an industrial scale, then it has to be massa and her blothel (or is it brothel) China. 50 centers and TSJ.

Its amazing how they create such amazing specimens that white wash with the pace that would make Goebells blush with pride. Ignoring their own warts and being so blind by their imagined exceptionalism and then using that high horse to troll :).

Industrial level production of 50 cent trolls we have here :).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Suraj » 27 Jun 2016 11:21

Interestingly, the poorer than temple mice people served longer in the Korean war that the great US Army, and in fact, longer than anyone else:
Korean War veterans cheer India at Incheon Asian Games
Kim Twan-hae has a fascinating story to narrate. The 91-year-old’s memory has understandably faded a bit. But on the topic of the Korean War, it remains sharp as ever.

He says he was leading the South Korean troops who were trying to push back the North Korean army from entering Incheon, when bullets pierced through his upper body. “Two. Here and here,” he says, pointing towards his chest and right shoulder. Kim waited nearly two-and-a-half hours for the medics to arrive. But none did. He looked up one last time and closed his eyes, not knowing if he would be able to open them again.

But just when he gave up, he saw an unfamiliar face charging towards him. The only way he could understand the man was not a threat was because of his uniform — a white coat. The next thing he remembers is waking up 48 hours later in an army medical tent near Seoul, with his ‘saviour’ standing next to him. “The man who saved me was an Indian. He was a part of the medical unit that was headed by Colonel Rangaraj. But to me, he was an angel,” Kim says.

On Thursday, Kim, along with a hundred other war veterans and their families, cheered the Indian hockey side in their group stage match of the Incheon Asian Games against Pakistan. The motley group was easily outnumbered and out-voiced by the 3,000-odd Pakistani fans at the Seonhak Hockey Stadium. But waving the tri-colour and proudly chanting “Indo!” every time Sardar Singh & Co. moved forward, these war veterans stood out in the crowd.

Kil Eun Young, an officer with the Korean ministry of patriots and veteran affairs — a government arm that looks after its war heroes — says this was their “way to show gratitude to the Indian people for supporting South Korea during the war”.

“Many people are not aware of India’s contribution (in the war). The medical unit headed by Col Rangaraj fearlessly rushed to the aid of wounded soldiers in middle of a fierce crossfire. They didn’t care for their lives and it was admirable because they were fighting for the cause of a country which was not theirs,” Young says.

During the Korean War in 1950, the Indian army had provided a medical unit to tend the sick and wounded soldiers. The 627-member 60 Parachute Field Ambulance unit served in Korea for a total of three-and-a-half years (November 1950-May 1954), which Young informs is the longest single tenure by any military unit under the UN flag.

“Had it not been for the devoted services and sacrifices of the Indian people, Korea would not have become what it is today,” Young added.

Not the sort of things Americans know of or care about, much less respect. Col Rangaraj was awarded Maha Vir Chakra for his exploits during the Korean War.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2016 12:22

TSJ despite some indiscretions has usually been allowed to stay because he does not violate forum guidelines normally (and when he does he gets banned for some time, before being allowed back in)

what he chooses to write and the reflection on himself of that, is his own choice. in my opinion it should not be skin off anyone's nose or something to get worked up about.

enjoy the show when it happens that all, and move on. ships in the night...there is no call to bait him, or get baited by him

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby TSJones » 27 Jun 2016 17:41

" BTW there are people in that state still in our country. We need to keep that in mind as we plan planetary exploration. Else it's irresponsible.
"


JEM,

...man does not live by bread alone........they also need hopes and dreams and plans for a better future and I believe space scientific research is one of the main incubators for it.

in 1962 the US launched TelStar the first US telecommunication satellite featuring transatlantic telephone calls, tv and fax transmission. there was even a top 40 hit song written about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBYdp84AwuU

India has far surpassed this level and we all take this achievement as our normal daily routine.

......and may it ever be so......
Last edited by TSJones on 27 Jun 2016 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jun 2016 17:44

With great trepidation, let me disagree most respectfully with Cosmo's grand declaration of superior intellectual quality of BRF etc.

OK, there seemed to be no such concern at some people parroting the nauseating theme, and that too on an INDIA-US RELATIONS thread:

India stupid, Indian leaders stupid, lost the war with China :(( got thrashed by China, :(( all Nehru's fault
:((

I just pointed out that this is a completely illogical way of representing history, ESPECIALLY on a forum where people are supposed to exhibit a little more ability to think than on the much-dissed Social Media.
Sorry, guys, but the above :(( :(( is logically and historically unsustainable.

Once the realization came to me that the "India Lost" :(( was nonsense, it was amazing to find a Wikipedia site that is pretty balanced, on this topic. Can't have been written by Indians, except maybe some BRFees!

China sent hundreds of thousands of poor guys marching brutally over the Tibetan Plateau, up the north face of the Himalayas and down the south face and into Assam - and their operation dragged on into to October-November of 1962. If you go and do some elementary research based on common sense, you will realize that OF COURSE China lost thousands of men and lots of equipment in this venture. They are human after all, they were also "poor as Pagoda Rats", and the notion that "Oh, Chinese can survive on a ball of rice once a week" is thoughtless BS when applied to survival at 14,000 feet in winter. Supplying such an army for an extended period is horribly expensive even without that horrendous logistics tail, even today.

And sure enough, the Wikipedia article says that China suffered horrendous casualties, and that more died in the trek and the weather than by bullets. Cites finding frozen soldiers holding their rifles even now. Remember that few people go reporting finding PLA dead bodies on the North side even today.

Net result was that China grabbed a lot of land that India would STILL be unable to use: Aksai Chin plateau. Some parts of Northern Arunachal. Other than that, CHINA RETREATED all the way back to the equivalent of the Yalu River, not just to the DMZ as in Korea!

Take a look at Chinese claims to the Spratly Islands etc today to see China's standard expansionist nature. They DON'T withdraw from anywhere unless they absolutely have to. So why did they retreat from India?

Answer: Because they would have been annihilated otherwise. Supply lines were easy to bomb. The USAF and IAF had good experience of Himalayan flying, the PLAF barely existed. Kennedy was building up a bomber force in India. The PLA faced massacre in a matter of hours. And 1962 was a few years after the Yalu River/ Chosin Reservoir experience, so the Americans were seething for revenge. Had Kennedy bombed the pakistan out of the PLA in Assam (just taken out the bridges and knocked down some roads through the passes) and all the way back through Tibet in November/December, several divisions of PLA would have been caught on the frozen heights unable to move, and simply frozen to death in a matter of days. Mathematical certainty.

Compare it to how any other war is reported:

NOW you can see clearly why the hasty retreat. No different from Napoleon from Moscow, or the US/UN forces from the Yalu River back to the DMZ. Sheer survival necessity. Hitler from Russia and the British from Afghanistan showed what would have happened to the PLA had they not retreated in a desperate rush to get back over the mountains before winter and air raids closed the passes: utter annihilation. Only some 5% of von Paulus' army made it out of Russia I think. And only some 15 survivors returned from the British disaster in Afghanistan.

How about casualties in the Sino-Indian War?
a) The non-battle deaths from exposure would be proportional to the number of soldiers committed, and the trek through the heights was faaar longer for the PLA than for the IA. They were building up in huge strength there for months and months!!! The number of dead would have been staggering already. India would have lost many men too, we are basically tropical plains people except for the Gurkhas and Kashmiris and Assamese. Note that several of the units that fought in the war were RAJPUTS. Brave men, but not mountaineers by upbringing, they came from Rajasthan and maybe Punjab. But India HAD faaar fewer men there in the first place, even after the desperate last-minute rush. India would have lost many men to accidents on the goat-tracks they call roads in the Himalayas as well.
b) Battle deaths: Read the accounts. There were a few instances of formations being surrounded and surrendering, but the rest were swarm attacks without air cover against defensive positions. Indians basically fought to the death, or more usually, until they were out of bullets. India's army was well-trained then, it was not conscripts unlike the Chinese, but veterans of WW2 and Kashmir conflicts. They would have made every bullet count, and in mountain warfare, rifles are far more deadly than the "burp guns" of the Chinese.

In human wave assaults, the outnumbered defenders may be eventually overrun, but not before they exact a terrible price on the attackers struggling up the snowy/icy or rubble-covered Himalayan slopes, struggling to breathe, exhausted from their 1-rice-ball diet. This is clearly what happened.

So WHY do you still parrot the lie that India **LOST** the 1962 war? India withdrew its precious soldiers, waited for the Chinese to run out of steam and courage and retreat, then went back and occupied the heights that were defensible in the longer term.

This is the first time I realized what the border disagreement is all about. India defines its Himalayan border as the ridgeline joining the peaks: basically, the southern watershed of the Himalayas, accurately defining "Bharata- VARSHA". China claims the whole of the Himalayas as part of Tibet.

The REAL defeats came much more recently: coups in Nepal and Bhutan. LONG after Nehru, and supposedly in the age of the Strong Indian Armed Forces and Brilliant GOI. But let's not go there.

If you think presenting thoughtful, factual rebuttals of long-held self-defeating superstitions should only be done on "Social Media" and not in the Hallowed, Responsible, Mature and Wooden-Headed Threads of BRF, sorree onlee. As it is, I stay off the MILForum for precisely such fears.

(And OK, Cosmoji, I DID delete some of the REAL UNTOLD story as portrayed in "Rakta Tilakam", :mrgreen: (translation for the illiterate would be approx. "Red Dot on Forehead" in New Jersey i-d(i)ot terminology) but I increasingly realize that it was pretty accurate. IIRC, the movie starts with an Indian truck driver dying in a valley after his truck crashes down a slope from one of the goat-tracks, taking a dying look at the photo of his family that he carried in his pocket.)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2016 19:47

LokeshC, Mods are doing their duty. No need for reminders or complaints.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby shiv » 27 Jun 2016 19:53

LokeshC wrote:
TSJones wrote:oh sure.....yer comparing 1962 incident to the korean war.... :roll:

boss, we had to send you guys a couple plane loads of machine guns in '62 for crying out loud......you guys were poorer than temple mice... :shock:


LOL just saw this. Looks like the same tactic was tried with the US's own well fed troops in Vietnam and it was equally effective in the end in winning the war for the opposition. Nothing like learning from an experienced combatant using the best arms one can get hain?

member_22733
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby member_22733 » 27 Jun 2016 23:01

ramana wrote:LokeshC, Mods are doing their duty. No need for reminders or complaints.


ramana sir, i know that and i appreciate it. No more complaints from me on this (TSJ).

This was my "flying off the handle" moment.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby snahata » 28 Jun 2016 03:17

I do not know what is your background TSJ. I agree India was a poor country in 1962 and some parts of it still are. Just to be sure plenty of poor in great USA. If u have not seen them come to NY and I will show u.

50% of white US population is of britshit descent, most likely u belong there.These thieves and robbers came to India to do business and in typical fashion of a thief they found the right opportunity and took over the country when it was at it,s weakest.At that time US did not exist and your forfathers were poorer than a temple mice. When these britshit took over India it,s GDP was 1/4 of the entire planet. Now chew over that your great USA does not get there even today.And just to be sure for most part of the last 2500 years India,s GDP was 1/4 to 1/3 rd of planet earth.Do some research I did not make it up. USA is not going to come anywhere near that record you can be sure of that. Matter of fact it,s best days are in the rear view mirror, not least because of the crimes it has commited and continues to do so.

Now in typical britshit or american fashion you suck the last drop of blood out of a country reduce it,s GDP from 25% of the world to 2% of the world by looting like only u can and than troll u are so poor. No shit sherlock. One more thing India managed to do all that in the last 2500 years without invading anyone( even when it could) and without needing the help of the best and the brightest in the world like u do . We were and are good enough without it.

And u heard it here in the second half of this century India once again will become the largest economy in the world overtaking china hope u are alive to see that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jun 2016 04:25

Oh, come on, folks. I for one appreciate the "poor as temple mice" crack. I think TSJi used the word "temple" because the common American term is "poor as a CHURCH mouse" but he wanted to be culturally sensitive, bless his sweet nature. Yes indeed, India was very poor then, and could not afford to, *****NOR WISHED TO**** :P spend money on equipping a hundred divisions with machine guns, tanks etc when we had 200 million on the verge of starvation and at the mercy of the monsoons. So Indians of that time certainly appreciated the swift, no-nonsense assistance that came from President Kennedy's USA. American aircraft landing at Kolkotta was, I am sure, a very big factor in panicking Mao into retreating, scrambling back up the Himalayan slopes in desperation before the passes were bombed.

Enough of harassing poor TSJi. What remains true is that Mao retreated in panic, not out of any generosity - why march to Tezpur at great cost, if your only intention was to "show that you could"? China doesn't do stuff for sentimental reasons. IOW, India won the war by just not wasting soldiers on meaningless battles, but even today holds firm in the Himalayas, quite near if not on the ridges that constituted the true Bharata VARSHA watershed. There was never any will in India to go hold the southern slopes or invade upto Manasarovar or Xinjiang.

To understand strategy like UBCN does, u should watch the movie War and Peace. The Russian Marshall resists all the sneers at his "cowardice" in not committing to a dug-in battle with the superbly-equipped French invaders, and keeps retreating-retreating, getting so depressed that he stayed in bed. Then one day the messenger comes and says:
The French have started retreating from Moscow.


The Marshal falls to his knees and gives Thanks to (well, his version of ATM). And leaps to life, giving the orders to start harassing the French retreat. Strategy at its best.

Why do you sneer at applying the same standard to the Indian strategy? After all we are the originators of
Inaction Is Action!

I wish later Presidents were as good as John Kennedy, (at least in choice of mistresses if nothing else...). Instead we have seen a procession of losers. Ronald Reagan I felt, after initial confusion due to the Inderfurth type twerps, actually developed a rapport with Mrs. G and that might have been a tremendous breakthrough except for Mrs. G's martyrdom (and RR got shot soon after, IIRC). The rest never saw the potential in a partnership of free democracies, at least beyond their myopic focus on UQ.

India never wanted to be a military power. All that India wanted was freedom and peace and friendship, even with the Pakis, and certainly with the Chinese. The militarization was forced on India. Let's not use the martial templates of the ever-warring Caucasian tribes to judge Indian strategic thinking. India is the most ancient of CIVILIZATIONS - the word actually means something to us, most of all in what it implies for CIVILIZED ways of living and dealing with humanity. (Give Peace a Chance, Destroy the Pakistan Army and the PLA/N/F).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ldev » 28 Jun 2016 04:54

It's a cultural issue. In the US for a long time now it is almost a badge of honor to claim that your forefathers were dirt poor but you have now made it good. In India poverty in the family history was regarded as a matter of shame as if that poverty was equated with the family pedigree. Now that Modi is the PM and proudly states that he is the son of a chaiwala who has been elected to the highest office in the land, attitudes will change. Being poor in the past will no longer need to be hidden or a matter of shame or your ego being hurt.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Viv S » 28 Jun 2016 05:01

UlanBatori wrote:Oh, come on, folks. I for one appreciate the "poor as temple mice" crack. I think TSJi used the word "temple" because the common American term is "poor as a CHURCH mouse" but he wanted to be culturally sensitive, bless his sweet nature.

Makes it a rather shaky metaphor since temple mice (unlike church mice) would actually be better fed than atheist/agnostic mice.

Enough of harassing poor TSJi.

Lol. I think he's just a little grumpy. Can't be easy seeing your homeland denigrated all the time. (Still.. there's a very wide spectrum of attitudes towards the US on the forum.)


For perspective (from russiadefence.net) -

Russia - India Military Contracts
US-Indian defense ties

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Viv S » 28 Jun 2016 06:35

Seoul Searching on NSG: Move Aside US, China is the New Sheriff in Town

BY SEEMA SIROHI ON 25/06/2016

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul while trying to control the nuclear order – once an American playing field where Washington set the rules.

Washington: The events in Seoul are not just a setback for India because its high-octane bid to enter the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) failed, but they are also a reality check for the US.

There is a new sheriff in town, swaggering and seizing new terrain.

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul, staking territory while trying to control the nuclear order. It used to be an American playing field where Washington set the rules, decided who was in and who was out.

China’s power play will reverberate across Asia, leaving behind tough questions about the emerging reality. It will impact calculations of countries as they assess the weather over South China Sea and the Pacific, and think about the American pivot. They might favour rebalancing themselves in a new way.

It must be sobering for US President Barack Obama to realise how far he has gone from his ‘rock star’ status in 2008, when the western world seemed in awe and leaders lined up to shake his hand to imbibe some of the magic. Today, his name invokes neither fear nor love as he prepares to end his tenure.

Obama couldn’t keep his promise to Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the NSG, at least not this time around. It remains to be seen if an “extraordinary” NSG plenary is called before the year is out to make another push for India’s membership. In the meantime, India has hinted it may not ratify the Paris climate agreement, something that Obama and Europeans really want.

US and Indian officials say that Obama was personally engaged in the NSG diplomacy, that secretary of state John Kerry made calls, as did Tony Blinken, his deputy. Blinken was in daily contact with foreign secretary S. Jaishankar to plot strategy and exchange notes. The White House reportedly called the leaders of Austria, Ireland and New Zealand. A US official described it as a “very, very intense engagement”.

An Indian official corroborated the statement: “It was a 100% effort by the Americans. Without them, things wouldn’t have reached as far as they did. They put their reputation on line”.

Yet an impression lingers that Obama isn’t as invested or enthusiastic as George Bush about India and the whole nuclear issue. After all, just two months ago he equated India and Pakistan’s nuclear programmes at the Nuclear Security Summit and implied they were moving in the “wrong direction”. New Delhi found that offensive.

Obama’s White House has also flirted with the idea of giving Pakistan a nuclear deal, thanks to some officials who are said to be close to Pakistani generals and others who don’t like India enough. Senior officials in the Bush team had a clearer vision and plan for India’s inclusion in the global nuclear architecture. They stayed on message.

In Seoul, the Obama administration couldn’t prevail over or convince countries such as New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Austria to come fully on board to isolate China. The presence of these “conscientious” objectors – who admittedly don’t oppose India’s entry on principle but want some criteria in place – allowed China to play procedural games with aplomb. In turn, China was the wall they stood behind.

These countries raised “questions on process, not substance” about what criteria ought to be used to admit countries that haven’t signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. This must have pleased China, “which created procedural blocks at every single turn, from the time the session opened to the last minute,” according to a US official. “The Chinese were extremely obstinate”.

But everyone knew China would be, because it had made its stand and intentions clear. It was Xi Jinping’s China. Yet, the India-US combined strategy was the same as in 2008 when Hu Jintao was in power. Essentially, it was to “winnow the field,” and isolate China as the lone man standing.

But Xi is the happiest lone man standing, unafraid to use his considerable elbows.
Perhaps a very different line of attack and defence was required. It seems the White House left it to India to make “the final play” and reach some sort of understanding when Modi met Xi just before the Seoul plenary. The Americans didn’t really plan a countermove themselves.

Interestingly, America’s own band of NGO non-proliferation hardliners also played for the Chinese side, not the American. Some of them reportedly signed a letter sent to the NSG chair before the Seoul plenary, slamming India’s non-proliferation credentials in the worst way possible. The issues raised make India’s record seem almost as bad as that of Pakistan.

But then, non-pro hardliners have been targeting India for years. It is they who first came up with most of the ideas that China and Pakistan float as bare necessities of a new nuclear order. One of them wrote in favour of a “criteria-based process” that would “preserve Pakistan’s prospects for future admission” just before the plenary.

At the same time, he wondered if allowing India and Pakistan into the NSG was really worth the trouble because the “club” could get “ensnarled” in “animosity”. Trouble is western analysts can’t be bothered to differentiate between two very separate histories and trajectories. They resort to “pox-on-both-their-houses” as an easy way out.

As India deals with disappointment and the US with the new normal, what neither should do is give more reason to China to celebrate.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby habal » 28 Jun 2016 07:01

out of work journalists are bigging up china like eid ka bakra.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jun 2016 07:42

Mean-e-while in the land of milke and honey, because poor less than temple mice feed guys are refusing to accept illegals hence a proposal to stop issuing them vizas:

A top American Senator( Senator Chuck Grassley) has asked the Obama Administration to discontinue issuing immigrant and non-immigrant visas to citizens from 23 countries, including India and China, while alleging them of being non-cooperative in taking back illegal immigrants from the US.
:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 949420.cms


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Arjun » 28 Jun 2016 09:57

Illegal immigration from India....mostly from Punjab I guess.

I don't think India should be on the wrong side of these illegal immigrants BS...Indians will eventually rule the world on the basis of its legal and hard-working migrant base - not to speak of the country itself being a victim of massive illegal immigration from Bangladesh.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby vishvak » 28 Jun 2016 22:14

Paging Ulan Batori ji to comment on viewtopic.php?p=2035806#p2035806 if a few minutes could be spared.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby TSJones » 15 Aug 2016 07:57

I've been missing my fan Lokesh.....I hope he comes back.....it's been a long time.

Just want to say in general.......good grief I've missed this forum. Really.

US-India encircling China?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ozb-ykZ7Pg

Also India sent 100 tanks to border.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby LokeshC » 15 Aug 2016 08:42

I am humbled that you think about me TSJ sir so much so that my name features in your first sentence in your first post-BRapocalypse post.

I wish it was mutual, but misphortunately my first post here was about the disk crash in shivs thread.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Welcome back.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 15 Aug 2016 10:14

Don't start off on a sour note gents... Keep it amiable please. Welcome back all.

NRao
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 15 Aug 2016 14:20

Dynamics for you.

How India Nearly Gave in to US Pressure to Enter the Iraqi Killing Zone

In the summer of 2003, senior ministers like L.K. Advani and a number of Indian strategic commentators kept up a steady drumbeat calling for the country to send troops to help the Americans. But Vajpayee kept his cool and refused.





According to Thibault, Indian and US defence officials were already in “very intense dialogue,” with defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld and army chief General Eric Shinseki landing in Delhi and Indian defence minister George Fernandes going to Washington “for talks on this issue (of a large Indian contingent in Iraq)”.

“The Indian army was institutionally disposed to dispatching up to a division, as I was well aware, dealing personally with several of the senior generals,” he claimed. The US department of defence was “extremely keen to get that presence in Iraq because the Indians, unlike some other nations, represent a serious fighting force”.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Christopher Sidor » 15 Aug 2016 14:47

^^^^^^^
One of the few things that Vajpayee did, for which he has to be applauded. A brave and wise decision by Shri Vajpayeee. We should never have gone in with USA into Iraq in 2003. Hopefully the most recent dispensation and future governments of India remembers this if push comes to shove in case of Iran or Syria or for that matter of fact, in case of any country in West Asia and Africa.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Aug 2016 20:39

According to Thibault, Indian and US defence officials were already in “very intense dialogue,” with defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld and army chief General Eric Shinseki landing in Delhi and Indian defence minister George Fernandes going to Washington “for talks on this issue (of a large Indian contingent in Iraq)”.


Its almost parallel to now carter coming and parrikar going there for lemoa , lsa etc.

Shows the true ugliness of americans, they are reptilians never a friend. Just in two years Vajpayee govt. gone and they refused visa to elected Chief Minister Modi , while happily hosting musharaff the army dictator and genocider of Nawab Bukti and his tribe, the conspirator and liar of Kargil war.

These reptiles can only be friends to other reptiles like porkis. This carter guy aside, they'll back stab bjp and modi again. Hope we've wisened up and don't sign LSA.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Gagan » 15 Aug 2016 23:04

Guys
Hillary Clin might become the next POTUS.
Her lead seems insurmountable.

Need to look at possible changes should she ascend to the highest office in massaland.
The cheenis will be back in favor, dunno about Pakistan.
Relationship with india can only be better than current GOTUS, may not be dramatically better and may not be potentially as good as one would expect if Trump came to power

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Aug 2016 00:24

^^^ Each sustained 0.1% above 7.5% per annum GDP growth will corresponding warm India-US, and India-almost-any-trading-nation ties :)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 16 Aug 2016 01:51

A lot can happen before November. DT is not an idiot, and I am not sure how far the opinion polls are correct. However, from the start, DT win has to come against serious odds. Not impossible but very difficult one from the start. MSM and establishment attacks on him (along with Google manipulation?) make his path very hard one.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Saral » 16 Aug 2016 05:28

DJT has to overcome the "Crazy, Dangerous" Frame. We are in the realm of persuasion, onlee. It's a tough ask. HRC seems to be ill. Kaine might be President sooner than later. Some scenarios on how DJT can bounce back. Realistically if the gap isn't narrowed in a month, game over.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1489497962 ... s-detector

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby krisna » 16 Aug 2016 08:12

^^^^
he is one of the earliest person to predict Trump win in republican primaries.
seems to make lot of sense in what he writes.

some things which are known but hidden publicly by Clinton supporters including media.

democratic convention leaks emails et al were ongoing for several months . lot of stuff may be released time to time if really incriminating against HRC.
so far media and Clinton supporters have successfully deflected them. brought in Russian bogey wrt emails leaks etc. it is known to be due to disgruntled democratic supporters who did it.

many things can happen between now and November.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Vayutuvan » 16 Aug 2016 10:36

Nsriram, first debate is the key. DT has a uphill climb. His Monday speech on security is panned by many even though his plan has as many (non)details as HRC's. Rajiv Malhotra's FB video is a good one if ant Indian amriki are looking for hel in making up their mind.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Vayutuvan » 16 Aug 2016 10:40

JE Menon wrote:Don't start off on a sour note gents... Keep it amiable please. Welcome back all.

:shock: :lol:
I enjoy the posts of both TSJ and Lokesh. Above all, I am happy the forum got resurrected without major data loss.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 16 Aug 2016 10:54

Who is this Alex Jones with Channel of his own called info wars?

If I am a US citizen, there is a lot of resonance with DT gang which is for the first time challenging a lot of things which are not open to discussion. Just like "Idea of India" gang which never allowed any debate, no one is US is ready to discuss the international treaties like NAFTA, etc. and color revolutions and mess of nation building activities.DT may time and comes like an idiot, but he may not 1000+times better for US and the world than HC with her record.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby disha » 16 Aug 2016 12:00

Milwaukee is burning. A black was shot dead and it is burning since last 3 days.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 16 Aug 2016 15:59

I think US has reached the stage where the writ of POTUS no longer runs supreme over rebellious central and state legislatures down to rebellious towns who do what they want and then fight it out in the courts or assemblies.

a bit bad for the soothing defender of democracy and oh we have the rule of law paramount here unlike you unwashed old world heathens narrative.

neither trump or hillary can control the forces that are unleashed due to pent up wrong policies over time....neither can be really use these forces .... energy cannot be created or destroyed it can only change its form...it can be series of small quakes or a big quakes to release the energy periodically

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Aug 2016 17:35

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 13428.html
Leo W. Gerard, International President of the United Steelworkers (USW) today confirmed the U.S. Department of Commerce (USDOC) announced a negative preliminary determination for anti-dumping (AD) duties on new pneumatic off-the-road tires (OTR) from India in a petition filed earlier this year by the USW and Titan International, Inc.
...
The separate preliminary countervailing duty (CVD) order for OTR tires was announced in June for India ranging from 4.70 to 7.64 percent; and for Sri Lanka at 2.90 percent.
....
According to the U.S. government's import statistics for 2014, new pneumatic off-the-road tires from India were valued at an estimated $167.3 million.


USDOC doc:
https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... iling-duty


Summary

The Department of Commerce (the Department) preliminarily determines that countervailable subsidies are being provided to producers and exporters of certain new pneumatic off-the-road tires (off road tires) from India. The period of investigation is January 1, 2015, through December 31, 2015. Interested parties are invited to comment on this preliminary determination.


We preliminarily determine the countervailable subsidy rates to be:

Code: Select all

Company                        Subsidy rate (percent)
ATC Tires Private Limited       7.64
Balkrishna Industries Limited   4.70
All-Others                      6.17


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Gus » 16 Aug 2016 18:05

Instead of tilting purple states towards him, trump is pushing red into purple like he has the luxury of doing that. Unless something devastating happens - this looks like over. Trump has destroyed GOP.


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