J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 29 Mar 2017 00:06

ANI‏Verified account @ANI_news
Budgam, J&K operations: 23 jawans of the CRPF injured due to stone pelting. One Rashtriya Rifles Soldier received bullet injuries.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Mar 2017 03:07

DrRatnadip wrote:It is really difficult to understand why these people willing to risk their lives for a worthless terrorist.. How these pak sympathizer s are able gather such a large mob of stone pelters on relatively short notice every time .. we must be able to strike at weakest link in their modus operandi.. stone pelting on every army operation is getting out of hand and it sure is giving us very bad publicity internationaly.

One word: money!

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 29 Mar 2017 07:18

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bIUrB0kzV6A

Finally Forces responding in kind to stone throwing terrorist supporters. Watch from 2:07onwards,at 2:22 jawan saying bhaag bhencho@d bhaag

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 29 Mar 2017 10:27

Before this firing, they were not riskin their life at all. They knew that RR will not fire on them unlike CRPF or Police who could retaliate , but with non-lethal means only. Now that their own lives aee in danger, expect number of these civilian jihadis to plummet.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 29 Mar 2017 10:59

I am very happy to see our boys returning favour to protester pigs. Hope this deters them effectively. Frequent firing on these pigs will be used by sickular media to tarnish image of our forces. This might be ultimate paki plan to widen devide between army and population of JK.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 29 Mar 2017 11:01

jamwal wrote:Before this firing, they were not riskin their life at all. They knew that RR will not fire on them unlike CRPF or Police who could retaliate , but with non-lethal means only. Now that their own lives aee in danger, expect number of these civilian jihadis to plummet.

Yes sir definitely number should decrease now

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Mar 2017 13:11

^^ Also lot of pigs were bleating about pro-bakistan., I think they can get a one-way ticket to Bakistan. Every KM from valley must be asked., if they love bakistan so much why do not they leave for bakistan?

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 29 Mar 2017 13:40

We lost many brave soldiers in last few months.. continous interference from stone pelters was also important factor in these casualties. Hard approch towards so called protesters will help in decreasing our casualties.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 29 Mar 2017 20:48

The basic matter is that as of today many if not most Kashmiri Muslims consider themselves as separate from India due to Islam. The protestors and stone throwers have a huge and admiring support from Kashmiri society for their action which is seen as civil disobedience. The Hizbul Mujahideen fighters that have picked up weapons and get killed by IA in counter terrorism are KM equivalents of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Azad. This cannot be solved by the gun. India has to digest Islam to solve Kashmir. There is also a growing Chinese support for non state actors such as HuM and LeT and it is only a matter of time before more sophisticated Chinese armaments an comms find their way down the Karakorum highway and into the hands of the Mujahideen converting Kashmir into something more like Afghanistan with local strongmen controlling hamlets in isolated valleys enforcing their version of Sharia.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 29 Mar 2017 21:02

The problem is simple. Kashmir has become a Jihadi society with kids being taught Jihad and Islamist supremacism. The propaganda is in madrassas, schools etc. Recently, there is a trend of making kids recite hindu and India hatred and putting it up on youtube. This is child abuse, plain and simple and these children must be taken away from their abusive environments and put in state care. This is the pipeline that feeds the stone pelters, Islamic rage boys and also the jihadis. To turn it off requires effective state action that prevents these abused kids from turning into insas fodder.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 29 Mar 2017 22:17

sudeepj wrote:The problem is simple. Kashmir has become a Jihadi society with kids being taught Jihad and Islamist supremacism. The propaganda is in madrassas, schools etc. Recently, there is a trend of making kids recite hindu and India hatred and putting it up on youtube. This is child abuse, plain and simple and these children must be taken away from their abusive environments and put in state care. This is the pipeline that feeds the stone pelters, Islamic rage boys and also the jihadis. To turn it off requires effective state action that prevents these abused kids from turning into insas fodder.

I have noticed this trend with quite a lot of sadness. Its incredible to see KMs are filling their children with hate for India and preparing them for Jihad and a pious death from a very young age, this kind of radicalization cannot be countered on the streets alone. Across India young children enjoy a childhood which will hopefully enable them to solve the most difficult problems facing humanity on the other hand many if not most KM children are being groomed to hate India and Indians within their homes and any retributive act of state violence via IA or Police only hardens their positions.

When these poetry and azadi spouting young children enter their youth most become stone pelters and the more aggressive among them make their way across the border and return with arms (many like Burhan Wani have the full backing of their families to join Mujahideen), when they die in encounters with the IA they inspire the next generation to pick up arms. How do you break this vicious cycle without compromising on the territorial integrity of India? The question is how much of this latent hatred is attributable to Indian State excess and how is attributable to Radical Islamic doctrine in KM personal spaces and what methods can be used to bridge the gap.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 29 Mar 2017 22:37

Though no sane mind would say not to deal with these planned stone pelters with strong hands but the truth lies beneath that Indian Army can only neutralize the armed Militants but its the state and central government that has to plug a new stream of Jehadi terrorist taking over the neutralized leadership. Kashmir is not the only time India has been fighting Terrorism, it likely has the most credible experience to address it across the country at some point or the other. The active supporters of Kashmiri Militants must be separated and uniquely identified and their interests have to be made orthogonal to the interests of other communities in the state. Unless a resistance comes from with in it would be difficult to keep well orchestrated stream of people continuing the mess.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 29 Mar 2017 22:54

The state has been remiss in its responsibility towards these young children. If a family was physically abusing its children, would the child not be taken away? So why should a family that is training its kids to be jihadis be left as custodian of its children?

These kids must be taken away from the parents and placed in care of the state. That is the only solution. Do this to a few hundred families and the rest will fall in line.

*Added later: Take these children and put them in Sainik schools. Let them join the SOG and the RR when they grow up.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Mar 2017 23:49

I think we on BRF should popularize these actions as Anti-Terrorist Operations(ATO)

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » 30 Mar 2017 00:01

DrRatnadip wrote:We lost many brave soldiers in last few months.. continous interference from stone pelters was also important factor in these casualties. Hard approch towards so called protesters will help in decreasing our casualties.

Yes sir, this trash must be show their rightful place .... dustbin. They should be deported to porkistan hope they will live peacefully there.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Mar 2017 00:06

sudeepj wrote:The problem is simple. Kashmir has become a Jihadi society with kids being taught Jihad and Islamist supremacism. The propaganda is in madrassas, schools etc. Recently, there is a trend of making kids recite hindu and India hatred and putting it up on youtube. This is child abuse, plain and simple and these children must be taken away from their abusive environments and put in state care. This is the pipeline that feeds the stone pelters, Islamic rage boys and also the jihadis. To turn it off requires effective state action that prevents these abused kids from turning into insas fodder.

The hatred for non-muslims was always there. Youtube and other channles on internet have just made it easier for you to see it. Don't assume that it's a new phenomena.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 30 Mar 2017 01:11

jamwal wrote:
sudeepj wrote:The problem is simple. Kashmir has become a Jihadi society with kids being taught Jihad and Islamist supremacism. The propaganda is in madrassas, schools etc. Recently, there is a trend of making kids recite hindu and India hatred and putting it up on youtube. This is child abuse, plain and simple and these children must be taken away from their abusive environments and put in state care. This is the pipeline that feeds the stone pelters, Islamic rage boys and also the jihadis. To turn it off requires effective state action that prevents these abused kids from turning into insas fodder.
The hatred for non-muslims was always there. Youtube and other channles on internet have just made it easier for you to see it. Don't assume that it's a new phenomena.

New or old, there is a need to remove these children from their abusive environments. In my experience, the hatred used to be in people who could afford to hate, i.e. the elite. In the past few years, the hate has percolated down to the working poor.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 30 Mar 2017 08:48

Based on experience with what is happening in the World there is no point making a huge investment in bringing these kids out of their abusive environment because they are not going to get out of. Somethings are better done by example. Make the communities that are already in mainstream so visibly successful financially and socially that Generation gets compelled to challenge those who are using them as Jihadi factory. No one wants to feel being used even by their "own" people.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Mar 2017 09:56

Article 370 needs to be scrapped. Bring in millions of Indians from the plains and fill up J&K. The scum need to be disenfranchised.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Mar 2017 13:13

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 16001.html
Operation Stone Pelters: Kashmir's scariest admissions caught on camera

At an unknown address in Jammu and Kashmir's Baramulla district, fugitive stone pelters dropped their face masks for a conversation with India Today's undercover reporters. With that, they also uncovered devastating truths behind the unrest in the valley that followed Hizbul commander Burhan Wani's killing.
Zakir Ahmad Bhat, Farooq Ahmad Lone, Wasim Ahmed Khan, Mushtaq Veeri and Ibrahim Khan made startling confessions: from being on the payroll of their underground masters to carrying out deadly attacks on security forces, public servants and property in the troubled region.
Stone pelters are paid about Rs 7,000 a month and clothes. Sometimes shoes as well. Masterminds would use internet to organise stone pelting across various locations.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 30 Mar 2017 13:33

brvarsh wrote:Based on experience with what is happening in the World there is no point making a huge investment in bringing these kids out of their abusive environment because they are not going to get out of. Somethings are better done by example. Make the communities that are already in mainstream so visibly successful financially and socially that Generation gets compelled to challenge those who are using them as Jihadi factory. No one wants to feel being used even by their "own" people.

You mean people like Zaira Wasim and her mother? Or the scores of politicians and their relatives? No amount of money is going to fix the attitude problem. Every segment of the population has their share of douchebags.

That can only be done by starting at the grassroots. Stop the usage of mosques and mosque loudspeakers for political messages. Ban the Jamat e Islami in Kashmir (it's completely different from the Indian one) and take down their networks. If minors are engaged in stone throwing or being used as human shields, take them away and give them a secular education in another part of India.

Having said, that, the govt should cultivate the local police and make sure that they are well taken care of and well paid and their families are not threatened etc. And if someone is genuinely secular and pro-India among the general populace, they must certainly be taken care of, as you mentioned, however, these people are rare in the valley. Perhaps the non-valley folks could be candidates.

Also, it looks like the separatist networks and the stone pelting etc is heavily dependent on social media and other apps that use the Internet. We should simply shut down the data for the general public and make it available only to 'secure phones' owned by police and forces and people with a bonafide track record of being nationalist.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 30 Mar 2017 21:05

Unfortunately, I dont think such solutions have worked with malsi terror. I am afraid we may have to borrow the Chechenya template from Russia to eliminate terrorists and their families if needed. Be ready for a near civil war. Kashmir crisis is not just a conflict of land it is the festering wound of two nation theory which states Hindus and muslims can't live under one nation. If we will fail in kashmir, we will have problems in WB, Kerela and other parts of nation too.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 30 Mar 2017 21:07

brvarsh wrote:Based on experience with what is happening in the World there is no point making a huge investment in bringing these kids out of their abusive environment because they are not going to get out of. Somethings are better done by example. Make the communities that are already in mainstream so visibly successful financially and socially that Generation gets compelled to challenge those who are using them as Jihadi factory. No one wants to feel being used even by their "own" people.

Disagree, sometimes, even the successful communities or individuals are Jihadi or steeped in Islamist supremacism. The first (modern) Jihadis in India were not the poor Julahas and "Qureishis", they were the english speaking, suited-booted brown sahibs from AMU. Making some communities successful can magnify the problem later on when successful people demand what the Jihadis want in a more sophisticated way. A poor, uneducated Jihadi is much better to deal with than an educated, rich Jihadi. Added later: btw, I am speaking from personal experience here. The most virulent 'anti Kafir' and the most supremacist views are held by the rich and successful. The prevalence of such views is more among the rich and the middle class and the so called educated. The poor in comparison are (or used to be) interested in living peacefully with their communities and interested in respecting local sensitivities and customs. I remember visiting a village once, and being told by an elderly muslim about his cow, 'I love her like I love my children.. and I keep her that way too'.

bringing these kids out of their abusive environment because they are not going to get out of.

Why not? A young child is wet clay, will be molded by his or her environment. Even teenagers can be completely 'reprogrammed'.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 30 Mar 2017 21:13

ranjan.rao wrote:Unfortunately, I dont think such solutions have worked with malsi terror. I am afraid we may have to borrow the Chechenya template from Russia to eliminate terrorists and their families if needed. Be ready for a near civil war. Kashmir crisis is not just a conflict of land it is the festering wound of two nation theory which states Hindus and muslims can't live under one nation. If we will fail in kashmir, we will have problems in WB, Kerela and other parts of nation too.

Chechnya template is a bit much, but the Kashmiri Musalmaan community needs to be made an example of. We have a working state in Kashmir, and it must do its duty towards the Kashmiri children by removing them from abusive parents. If you are caught throwing stones once, we will warn you and your family about what happens next. The second time, you will be taken away and put up with a host family which can teach you some morals.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 30 Mar 2017 21:26

sudeepj wrote:
ranjan.rao wrote:Unfortunately, I dont think such solutions have worked with malsi terror. I am afraid we may have to borrow the Chechenya template from Russia to eliminate terrorists and their families if needed. Be ready for a near civil war. Kashmir crisis is not just a conflict of land it is the festering wound of two nation theory which states Hindus and muslims can't live under one nation. If we will fail in kashmir, we will have problems in WB, Kerela and other parts of nation too.
Chechnya template is a bit much, but the Kashmiri Musalmaan community needs to be made an example of. We have a working state in Kashmir, and it must do its duty towards the Kashmiri children by removing them from abusive parents. If you are caught throwing stones once, we will warn you and your family about what happens next. The second time, you will be taken away and put up with a host family which can teach you some morals.

And who will find a new family, which and how many families you think will be willing to take in a stone pelter from kashmir?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 30 Mar 2017 21:48

Karthik S wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Chechnya template is a bit much, but the Kashmiri Musalmaan community needs to be made an example of. We have a working state in Kashmir, and it must do its duty towards the Kashmiri children by removing them from abusive parents. If you are caught throwing stones once, we will warn you and your family about what happens next. The second time, you will be taken away and put up with a host family which can teach you some morals.
And who will find a new family, which and how many families you think will be willing to take in a stone pelter from kashmir?

You underestimate the Ghar Wapasi zeal..

There will be plenty. Dont worry about that.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 31 Mar 2017 00:11

sadly by then ilks of barkha dutt /sagarika will be unemployed. It's one thing to see hippos in zoo and another thing to bring them home. Let AD or MM know in case you're interested to inculcuate humanity/manners into these "misguided" and "brainwashed kids". I am sure, they'll be more than happy to have such people around. Unfortunately, I like the Chinese or even russian approach to handle this. In light of no approach with guaranteed results i would prefer the approach that burns these roaches

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 31 Mar 2017 11:40

In Srinagar,young Abdul throws stone at angle of elevation of 20° with a velocity of 30mt per second. CRPF van is 100 mt away from young Abdul. CRPF jawan fires bullet at 380 mt per sec and Abdul leaves for Jannah at the speed of light.
So, taking g=10mt per second square, calculate the time taken by Abdul to reach Jannah ??

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 31 Mar 2017 12:11

jamwal wrote:
In Srinagar,young Abdul throws stone at angle of elevation of 20° with a velocity of 30mt per second. CRPF van is 100 mt away from young Abdul. CRPF jawan fires bullet at 380 mt per sec and Abdul leaves for Jannah at the speed of light.
So, taking g=10mt per second square, calculate the time taken by Abdul to reach Jannah ??

72ms

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 31 Mar 2017 12:48

Mort Walker wrote:Article 370 needs to be scrapped. Bring in millions of Indians from the plains and fill up J&K. The scum need to be disenfranchised.

This is what China did in XinJiang with the Uyghurs. Kaiser Tufail went there and found out Hans outnumber Uyghurs.

Given the high fertility rate of KMs and no socio-economic means of providing an education, the children end up being cannon fodder.

Ramana - the word encounter was invented by Mumbai police when in reality its a proper planned ambush based on solid intel to exploit the vulnerable moment of of gangsters/terrorists. The legal system has been perverted by well paid lawyers arguing police should arrest instead of killing gangsters.

So the term encounter was invented to get around the legal system. It implied that cops were peacefully walking on the street, by chance "encountered" and came across a gangster, asked him to surrender, who refused and shot first, and cops retaliated and killed him. The best encounter was that of Veerappan.

My personal opinion in this matter is that the spirit of the law should be clear. Anyone indulging in violence will be neutralized. The means - a heart & minds campaign - or an ambush - are immaterial.

The life expectancy of a terrorist in Kashmir is in weeks, that is a testimonial to the efficiency of RR, BSF, CRPF & ITBP battalions.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 31 Mar 2017 12:54

sudeepj wrote:
Karthik S wrote:And who will find a new family, which and how many families you think will be willing to take in a stone pelter from kashmir?
You underestimate the Ghar Wapasi zeal.. There will be plenty. Dont worry about that.

There are many Kashmiri women & their families who ran away because they didn't want to be Jehadi prostitutes.

All these people were properly re-settled in other parts of India. RR Home Regimental Centers and AWWA played a major role here, with contributions raised for proper schooling and higher education of children.

In some cases, the girls married the soldiers who rescued them.

The other problem is funding of separatists by Jehadi elements from Pakistan & ME.

I am fervently hoping Modi's West Asia outreach will be effective in countering this.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 31 Mar 2017 12:57

Good to know Sudeep ji and Tsarkar ji.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 31 Mar 2017 21:04

about this new tunnel..how much time did it take in past to go from Jammu to Srinagar? i went many years ago..totally forget the hours. and now how much time... ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 31 Mar 2017 21:07

manjgu wrote:about this new tunnel..how much time did it take in past to go from Jammu to Srinagar? i went many years ago..totally forget the hours. and now how much time... ?

Tunnel will save 2-3 hours. But more importantly, it will allow traffic flow even during winter.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Mar 2017 21:44

jamwal wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 16001.html
Operation Stone Pelters: Kashmir's scariest admissions caught on camera

At an unknown address in Jammu and Kashmir's Baramulla district, fugitive stone pelters dropped their face masks for a conversation with India Today's undercover reporters. With that, they also uncovered devastating truths behind the unrest in the valley that followed Hizbul commander Burhan Wani's killing.
Zakir Ahmad Bhat, Farooq Ahmad Lone, Wasim Ahmed Khan, Mushtaq Veeri and Ibrahim Khan made startling confessions: from being on the payroll of their underground masters to carrying out deadly attacks on security forces, public servants and property in the troubled region.
Stone pelters are paid about Rs 7,000 a month and clothes. Sometimes shoes as well. Masterminds would use internet to organise stone pelting across various locations.

These are surely intelligence initiated/inspired conversations.

No way IT reporters would have this much guts to risk their own lives to get such a report. aroon poorie is not such a patriot anyway and nor are his pussy reporters.

Also every non kashmiri/outsider kashmiri is tracked by the jehadis. Always within easy range of a gun or grenade.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Apr 2017 00:12

Interviewer is not from Kashmir or Laddakh at least.

As far as tracking is concerned, this may be slight exaggeration.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 02 Apr 2017 05:15

tsarkar wrote:Ramana - the word encounter was invented by Mumbai police when in reality its a proper planned ambush based on solid intel to exploit the vulnerable moment of of gangsters/terrorists. The legal system has been perverted by well paid lawyers arguing police should arrest instead of killing gangsters.

Whatever well paid lawyers may or may not have done, I don't believe the law is that the police can plan to ambush with the intent to neutralize. A court of law can decide to pass the death sentence, not the police. Encounters are illegal.

My personal opinion in this matter is that the spirit of the law should be clear. Anyone indulging in violence will be neutralized. The means - a heart & minds campaign - or an ambush - are immaterial.

The letter and spirit of the law is quite clear on who can do the neutralizing.

The life expectancy of a terrorist in Kashmir is in weeks, that is a testimonial to the efficiency of RR, BSF, CRPF & ITBP battalions.

A police force cannot and should not behave the same way as the army does when deployed for counter insurgency duties. There is a reason the army is reluctant to take on internal policing duties except under the gravest threats.

DheerajG · Post by **DheerajG** » 02 Apr 2017 11:10

On the issue of stone pelting, it is repeatedly being said that WhatsApp Groups and Social Media is being misused to organize stone pelters at the encounter sites. If that is the case then why GoI is not shutting down the mobile internet (may be even broadband) in separatists affected areas? This will make communication between handlers and stone pelters extremely difficult.

My suggestion is that GoI should even shut down mobile telephony for the temporary period to prevent bulk SMSes. Let people use landlines which I believe is easy to tap and trace.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 02 Apr 2017 15:00

jamwal wrote:...

Comments on the article below appreciated:

Jammu—it’s not discrimination; it’s capitulation

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 02 Apr 2017 15:14

Delink Jammu, Ladakh from Kashmir to end discrimination: Ram Sena