J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby dinesha » 06 Jul 2018 21:42

Golf 'banned' for officers in Kashmir to honour soldiers’ sacrifice
https://www.mynation.com/news/golf-bann ... ice-pbe9bu

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 07 Jul 2018 18:26

an article on the need to remove art 370 and art 35A in the Jammu based press. The author is the President of Panun Kashmir an organization of the exiled Hindus of Kashmir

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/time-abrogate-art-370/
excerpts
In fact, Modi’s first speech in Jammu in December 2013 referred to a debate on the Article 370 during the then ensuing elections for the Parliament. The experiment of BJP-PDP alliance in the state put heavy curtains on the possibility of a debate and discussion, leave aside the review of the Status, Art 370 and Art 35A.
Thus four years passed by and the lessons that are carried include that the new elections for the Parliament are supposed to be fought in 2019 on a very clear agenda of nationalism versus everything else. Article 370 and Article 35A have attracted a national level attention due to a number of reasons for the last a couple of years. Kudos go to the activism of individuals and organisations who spearheaded campaigns to highlight the issues pertaining to the introduction and abolition of the controversial Articles of the Indian constitution.
It was after a series of debates in the Constituent Assembly of India that Article 370 was finally adopted by the members of the Assembly. There were heated discussions and debates on the issue in the Constituent Assembly between various members representing different schools of political thought. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, Sardar Vallabbhai Patel, Dr.S.P. Mukherjee, Dr. Bardoloi and many others opposed the provision vehemently. Pt. J. L.Nehru, Sheikh Abdullah and Abdul Kalam Azad took a very stern stand on the issue and started lobbying on the issue outside the Constituent Assembly. They took Dr.Rajendra Prasad (who was the Chairman of the Assembly), Gobind Vallabh Pant and some other important members into confidence and used the idea of “Temporary Provision” as the heading of the Article as a bargaining chip against the members who kept their resistance in tact till the adoption of the Constitution in November 1949.
Article 35A was not a part of the Constitution that was adopted by the Constituent Assembly and implemented with effect from 26th January 1950. The coveted Article was brought later by the Government of India through a clear manipulation of the position that its members held in the polity of the nation. The Art 35A was brought through a President’s promulgation without any notice to the members of Parliament or to the Supreme Court of India. Article 368 (2) of the Constitution of India gives all important Constituent Powers to the Parliament. It clearly says, “Power of the Parliament to amend the Constitution and procedure therefor an amendment of this constitution may be initiated only by the introduction of a Bill for the purpose in either House of Parliament, and when the Bill is passed in each House by a majority of the total membership of that House present and voting, it shall be presented to the President who shall give his assent to the Bill and thereupon the Constitution shall stand amended in accordance with the terms of the Bill”.
In this case, the Government of India brought President’s (Amendment to Constitution) Order 1954 thereby introducing Article 35A without it being presented to the either House of Parliament. So to say that the earlier published copies of the Constitution circulated to the members of Parliament and the public did not carry any reference to the Article 35A. Even Judges and Law practitioners of the Supreme Court of India and the High Courts expressed their innocence about the Article till recently. The Order of the President signed by Dr.Rajendra Prasad at the behest of the Government was a clear fraud on the Constitution, Parliament and the Supreme Court of India which is empowered to interpret the Constitution. Some supporters of special status to J&K State term Article 35A as the soul of the Article 370. What they ignore, unfortunately, is that Article 370 existed for five long years without its so-called soul (Article 35A).
Since the matter of Article 370 and Article 35A is a matter of great public interest at a national level, any kind of a decision by the Supreme Court on these two Articles carries a great weight. In case, the Apex Court eventually expresses the view that the Order of 1954 was ‘right’, the Government of the day can take the same route to annul it forthwith keeping in view the composition of the polity in general and the position of the Constitutional authorities. And in a situation, if the Apex court dismisses the Order that was brought through back door in 1954 without any reference to the Parliament, the “fraud on the constitution and the Parliament” will simply become a history of the past. However, it will bring forth the ‘way, manner and style’ in which the Governments were run by the so-called democrats, freedom fighters and makers of the constitution when they were given the chance by the people to do so.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ShauryaT » 08 Jul 2018 18:39

Karthik S wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:Do you have any credible references for the highlighted part? Not claiming JLN did not screw up but you have to have the correct reasons thereof.


Look up Maj Gen GD Bakshi's video regarding the same. Can't do it for you now. Although other army personalities have said same, I consider Maj Gen lot more reliable.
Karthik: I will use your post to highlight a wider issue, which is the politicization of history, news, and events,to such an extent that elementary facts are no longer researched on this board. The need to look at everything from an ideological and partisan political prism is something this board can avoid to the benefit of all. Now to address the specifics.

1. I did not find any video by Maj. Gen. Bakshi to have made that specific claim, as you have above
2. An elementary knowledge of the 14-month war and the actual ground situation in the various sectors would have informed you that there was no "imminent" recapture of occupied Indian territories possible. For reference look up operation duck.
3. The chief of armies in both India and Pakistan were British officers.
4. The nominal head of the Indian government was British.
5. It was in Britain's strategic interests to keep the NA as part of Pakistan
6. There is little doubt that behind the "tribal" raiders, was the hand of Pakistani military and its leadership, poised to intervene fully as required. The Pakistani leadership was playing its usual double game of trying to "officially" not intervene and call it an uprising.
6. Although the Indian military position was an improving one, the only likely way to bring pressure was to launch a full scale war and probably for long across the entire boundary. Most of the roads and terrain made it easier for movement to be in the north-south axis rather than east-west. This is the reason action for even Muzzarafabad was difficult to execute
7. There was some small-scale localized action that was deemed to be beneficial by our military leaders, if a few more weeks were allowed, past 1948.

Attached is a view from an Indian military officer on the matter.

Was it possible to capture Pak Occupied Kashmir in 1949

Indian forces therefore had to operate in J&K under serious handicaps. The enemy could not be beaten decisively by local actions. For decisive victory, it was necessary to bring Pakistan to battle across the international border as was done in 1965. So if the whole of J&K was to be liberated, a general war against Pak was necessary which India’s superior combat edge would have given them a decisive edge and would have made Pakistan to recoil her forces from J&K. There is no doubt that Pakistan would have been decisively defeated in a general war.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 08 Jul 2018 19:29

That is not the impression one got reading various things on the war. The initial advantage was with the Pak raiders/army but India was able to push it back and at the time of ceasefire India had the offensive advantage. As for sources can't spoon feed you.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Primus » 09 Jul 2018 05:19

X-posting from BGR:

From M.O. Mathai's 'My Days with Nehru':

............ MO Mathai writes on pg 242

"Soon after his release in 1964 Sheikh Abdullah was at his old pet game again – the ultimate creation of an Independent Kashmir. He persuaded Nehru , by then an ill man, to let him go to Islamabad for talks with President Ayub Khan.

In this context, two pieces of disquieting news reached me:

1. A Brigadier of Army Headquarters said that the army felt very strongly about recent poliical events in Kashmir and added that there would be trouble if any weakening was shown by the Prime Minister in regard to kashmir’s accession to India because the army did not want to have the shameful feeling that it’s soldiers had shed their blood in vain. The Prime Minister let down the army once by ordering a cease-fire when our army was poised for clearing the raiders and Pakistanis from the entire Jammu and Kashmir area. It was the Prime Minster who created Azad Kashmir and not Pakistan. The army had enough humiliations after Independence; and it was not going to stomach the pusillanimity of politicians any more.
2. A Major in the army said openly at the Delhi Railway Station that if the Prime Minister did any monkey tricks in regard to Kashmir, he would have to go the same way as Gandhi."


I doubt anybody knew Nehru as well as Mathai did. We could always dig up original sources from that era but it would be a tedious task.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Katare » 09 Jul 2018 07:17

If you read Nehru’s letters/communications during that period related to Kashmir issue you find a very interesting change of tone. During initial phase Nehru is all fire and brimstone, he gets even more fired up when Indian army starts to win spectacularly and hopes he’ll have all of the Kashmir in his hand in no time but as winter approaches and army gets stretched thin with supplies depending on a lonley road (besides air) his tone starts to change to that of a more balanced optimism. The maharaja writes to him complaining about army not moving forward but waiting to consolidate its position. He also writes about army loosing control of a few areas. professional robber clans of Tribals supported by Pakistan start the guerrilla war of-hit and run from multiple sides. Now Nehru is on defensive, his army is deployed in an inhospitable terrain and winter is only a month or two away. At this point the search for a political solution starts.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Kashi » 09 Jul 2018 08:42

^^ Katare sa'ab post the links and/or excerpts as it will make it easy for members to go through the original sources and draw their conclusions.

Plus, if possible do post some additional references that support the "claims" being made in the "Nehru’s letters/communications".

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Neshant » 09 Jul 2018 12:38

Really makes one wonder where the loyalty of this so called national party likewith their underhanded attempts at changing the demographics.

_______

Congress and NC unmoved by Govt decision to deport Rohingyas

http://www.uniindia.com/cong-nc-unmoved ... 57143.html

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nits » 09 Jul 2018 13:05

Almost a month of Governor Rule; it was expected forces will go all out on terrorist and on anti-national elements but nothing in media of that sort...

Either its not happening or happening but not reported ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ShauryaT » 10 Jul 2018 00:15

Primus wrote:X-posting from BGR:

From M.O. Mathai's 'My Days with Nehru':

In this context, two pieces of disquieting news reached me:

1. A Brigadier of Army Headquarters said that the army felt very strongly about recent poliical events in Kashmir and added that there would be trouble if any weakening was shown by the Prime Minister in regard to kashmir’s accession to India because the army did not want to have the shameful feeling that it’s soldiers had shed their blood in vain. The Prime Minister let down the army once by ordering a cease-fire when our army was poised for clearing the raiders and Pakistanis from the entire Jammu and Kashmir area. It was the Prime Minster who created Azad Kashmir and not Pakistan. The army had enough humiliations after Independence; and it was not going to stomach the pusillanimity of politicians any more.
2. A Major in the army said openly at the Delhi Railway Station that if the Prime Minister did any monkey tricks in regard to Kashmir, he would have to go the same way as Gandhi."[/i]

I doubt anybody knew Nehru as well as Mathai did. We could always dig up original sources from that era but it would be a tedious task.
An unnamed brigadier and major as a definitive "source" and that too from the entirely discredited works of M.O Mathai, who is not able to substantiate ANY of his incredulous allegations about JLN. Know of any academic or historian who takes Mathai seriously? Come on guys, please do something better. JLN made many mistakes, it should be easy to pin him down but not with these unsubstantiated stories circulating as fake news on SM.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Primus » 10 Jul 2018 02:00

^ Never claimed it was a 'definitive' source, just one that I am familiar with.

Perhaps you could post 'definitive' sources of your own that present the opposite viewpoint?

Meanwhile, it is not easy to find a truly reliable source online for the 1947 war. I am working on it, will post references when I can. My own take on this matter is that JLN was a terrible leader who was thrust upon a fledgling democracy and we are still suffering his terrible legacy in so many ways, not just the Kashmir conflict.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Jul 2018 08:31

Please remember the state of the Indian military in the immediate aftermath of Independence.The armed forces split into two, a goodly portion going to Pak, British mitary leaders still in charge and newly independent India found itself emasculated militarily by the retreating Britz who did everything possible to leave the subcontinent no threat to western hegemony especially in the maritime sphere.

It was Lord Mountbatten's affection for India and the IN in particular ,that saw some decent warships and the Vikrant transferred to us.Nehru put into effect the important task of the industrialisation of India with its new "temples" steel plants, etc.Krishna Menon was put in charge of invigorating Indian defence production.The Vickers light tank ( Vijayanta) and Gnat production began

However, Nehru basking in the glow of NAM leadership and India's huge moral force, respected worldwide, were taught a lesson by the Chins.Nehru's moral force without the backing of military force exposed the hollowness of his foreign policy.He never recovered from the debacle of ' 62 where he was scared sh*tless to use the IAF pleading for massive US military supplies .Ridiculous quantities of milware which we couldn't absorb ( which never came too), becos he was afeared of the Chins bombing our northern and eastern cities. Had he been bold here we would've caused huge casualties for the Chins and restored his naievity and reputation to an acceptable degree.I recollect the late JN Dixit, our eminent diplomat and NSA, a young diplomat in Delhi at the time, wondering why the IAF was not being used when so many were crying out fof it to go into action.

The latest exposes this year show that China had been secretly planning the attack against India long before the supposed breakdown in discussions where they alleged India was to blame.The Chinese took advantage of the weakened state of India militarily post- Independence and our concentration of forces against Pak, over J&K, diverting our attention.Nehru took the sucker punch on the jaw and hit the canvas never to rise from it again.His daughter though, Mrs.G., learnt the bitter lesson her father had been taught and won a famous victory in'71 after having built up the armed forces in substantial measure.

Perhaps in years to come more exposes of the Sino- Pak collusion will come to light as well as western support for the "martial" Pakistanis during the CENTO days, where they hoped Pak would be their willing mercenaries and intel. allies, the latter aspect which is still going strong despite US annoyance at its support for ungodly species.

PS: There was a media piece regarding the infamous ISRO spy scandal in Kerala which ruined the careers of two brilliant ISRO scientists and set back our indigenous cryo-engine development by 16 years.The author remarked how strangely Dr.Homi Babha and Sarabhai both mysteriously died in their 50s, the former in an inexplicable air crash in the Alps and the latter suddenly in a hotel in Kerala.Both were spurring development of our atomic industry and the bomb.Was mischief afoot in all these cases?
Last edited by Philip on 10 Jul 2018 08:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhik » 10 Jul 2018 08:35

nits wrote:Almost a month of Governor Rule; it was expected forces will go all out on terrorist and on anti-national elements but nothing in media of that sort...

Either its not happening or happening but not reported ?

That kind of assumes they were not "going all out" before. IMO they can dial it up from 80 to 100 or back down to 80, but unlikely to make much difference in the long term.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Katare » 10 Jul 2018 08:40

Kashi wrote:^^ Katare sa'ab post the links and/or excerpts as it will make it easy for members to go through the original sources and draw their conclusions.

Plus, if possible do post some additional references that support the "claims" being made in the "Nehru’s letters/communications".


Kashi,
I think everyone should go to the original sources and make up there own mind based on what one comprehends from them. I have already given the references in earlier post. I do not have time right now to go and look for the website and exact pages etc. there are 50+ volumes of Nehru’s communications each running into several hundred pages. Fortunately they are availVle on internet for free and you just have to skip to the year 1947 (iirc vol 21 ) and you can go through the letters related to kashmir in an hour or so. Those volumes also have letters from other people ( maharaja, patel etc) to whom Nehru replied. It’ll take a couple of hour but you cAn find them. When I have time I’ll search and post relevent excerpts for you.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Katare » 10 Jul 2018 08:53

Primus wrote:^ Never claimed it was a 'definitive' source, just one that I am familiar with.

Perhaps you could post 'definitive' sources of your own that present the opposite viewpoint?

Meanwhile, it is not easy to find a truly reliable source online for the 1947 war. I am working on it, will post references when I can. My own take on this matter is that JLN was a terrible leader who was thrust upon a fledgling democracy and we are still suffering his terrible legacy in so many ways, not just the Kashmir conflict.


You can read pretty much any book written by a half decent and credible author and you will have your source. None absolutely no one that I have read mentions any of the typical Nehru stories circulating on internet or told as gossip by random people.

Interestingly, I went on this search for myself because media and internet had me fooled for almost a decade about Modi. When the truth came out i went looking for original and authen sources to corroborate many things. The Nehru story and what we have done with hime is pretry surprising, we almost made his name a proper gaali while turned Patel and Bose into holy cows.

I think these stories and larger than life projection of Patel and Bose were created by rightwing to discredit current dynasty. Once Pappu is gone there will be resurrection of Nehru’s image but until than these stories will circulate to counter the god like image that Congress party created of him until 80s.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Jul 2018 08:54

PPS: Nehru was naieve again in trusting the west and taking J&K to the UN when we had the Pakis on the run.He later wrote to his sister Mrs.Pandit, that he had been betrayed by them .Sadly this lesson in betrayal was not learnt by him and his " bhai-bhai" approach to the Chins was repaid by them as "bye-bye"!

Nehru's betrayal by both the West and Chins should be a signal warning to PM Modi, who has been spending a lot of diplomatic goodwill in both directions.The US has shown us its true colours by sticking with Pak, threatening us with sanctions and the Chins too at Doklam.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Kashi » 10 Jul 2018 09:33

Katare wrote:Kashi,
When I have time I’ll search and post relevent excerpts for you.


Thank you very much KatareJi, I look forward to reading them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 10 Jul 2018 19:01

there was an attempt by batchmates to coerce a girl student in Anantnag to convert to Islam. upon her refusal to do so she was stabbed

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu- ... 17787.html
excerpts
The J&K Police have picked up three students of the Islamic University of Science and Technology, Awantipora, for questioning to probe the stabbing of a girl from a minority community.
While the police say investigation in the case is still underway, the three students are being questioned for their role in “stabbing as well forcing the girl to convert into a Muslim”.
“We are investigating the case. The three students of the institute are being questioned,” a police officer said. It is learnt that a few acquaintances from the girl’s community may also be called for questioning. The probe is being monitored by SSP, Awantipora, a police officer said.
Last Monday, a girl from a minority community hailing from south Kashmir’s Tral in Pulwama district, who is a student of the university, was allegedly stabbed by two bike-borne men when she was waiting to board a bus to the university.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 10 Jul 2018 21:22


ramana
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2018 02:27

Philip wrote:PPS: Nehru was naieve again in trusting the west and taking J&K to the UN when we had the Pakis on the run.He later wrote to his sister Mrs.Pandit, that he had been betrayed by them .Sadly this lesson in betrayal was not learnt by him and his " bhai-bhai" approach to the Chins was repaid by them as "bye-bye"!

Nehru's betrayal by both the West and Chins should be a signal warning to PM Modi, who has been spending a lot of diplomatic goodwill in both directions.The US has shown us its true colours by sticking with Pak, threatening us with sanctions and the Chins too at Doklam.


He is doing chai biskoot.

PVNR once said 'no harm in talking and listening. Only harm when you act against your interest!"

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ashish raval » 11 Jul 2018 03:07


Looks like halal season has just started after a break. Army should take all advantage of governed rule and weed pigs out. Surveillance drone should be buzzing constantly over whole of troubled areas.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby dinesha » 12 Jul 2018 12:46

Spike in militant recruitment after end of Valley ceasefire: J&K data
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-5254335/

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 13 Jul 2018 23:24


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby dinesha » 15 Jul 2018 12:52

Cyber Jihad: The biggest challenge in Kashmir
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... e-kashmir/
Following a six-month probe into incidents of unrest in Kashmir in 2017, a team of National Investigation Agency (NIA) identified 79 WhatsApp groups, having 6,386 phone numbers, used to crowdsource boys for stone pelting. Of them, around 1,000 numbers were found active in Pakistan and Gulf nations. The remaining 5,386 numbers were found active in various parts of the Valley and neighbouring States. Many of these groups had administrators based in Pakistan. According to a media report, more than 300 WhatsApp groups operated to crowdsource mobs to disrupt anti-terror operations in 2017.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 16 Jul 2018 09:05

art 35A and Art 370 have to be done away with. they effectively abet the islamic fascist mindset of the Muslims of Kashmir. this article is in a different context - interesting to read, nevertheless- but it contains an example that very well describes the terror and evil mindset of islamo fascism
Do minorities mean only Muslims? What about Buddhists, Sikhs and others? When 36 Sikhs were killed in Kashmir, not a single Congressman condoled over their deaths. In J&K, there is not a single Buddhist working in the state secretariat. The only Buddhist who was selected through the state public service commission had to convert to Islam to secure the government job.... The Congress is silent on this."


https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... 20938.html

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 16 Jul 2018 23:15


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby anupmisra » 16 Jul 2018 23:33

Supratik wrote:One policeman killed. 3 Jaish terrorists arrested.

https://www.amarujala.com/jammu/three-j ... mu-kashmir



मैट्रिक्स शीट. Metrix sheet (Am I saying it right?). What's that?


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