J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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g.sarkar
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 05 Aug 2019 14:41

pankajs wrote:^^
This was always on the plate for this LS via BJP's agenda but the changing situation around J&K prompted Modi/GOI to fast-track it.

I meant the period from 1947 to 2014, when congress was mostly in power, with small exceptions.
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nits » 05 Aug 2019 14:42

any news on how's situation in Valley; any protest or any other signs of trouble / reaction after this decision ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 14:44

manjgu wrote:g.sarkar... as someone said we always punch below our weight. we dont have the DNA of a superpower.

that someone IIRC was Ajit doval in an interview..he also said, we must increase our weight and punch at our weight..neither above nor below..

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hanumadu » 05 Aug 2019 14:44

Actually the reaction from congress in Rajya Sabha has been muted. They made some noise initially and still making some but not enough to affect the proceedings. The deputy chairman was repeatedly calling Ambika Soni to speak but she was just absent.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 05 Aug 2019 14:45

manjgu wrote:g.sarkar... as someone said we always punch below our weight. we dont have the DNA of a superpower.

Let us not go there. Some time back the sign read "Dogs and Chinese not allowed". What happened to them? Someone can say something, what of it?
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 14:45

g.sarkar wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
This was always on the plate for this LS via BJP's agenda but the changing situation around J&K prompted Modi/GOI to fast-track it.

I meant the period from 1947 to 2014, when congress was mostly in power, with small exceptions.
Gautam

Not a response to your post saar but of the one before of williams saar.

Just so happened that I did not quote him and you post got in the middle. I was too lazy to correct it but I guess I should have edited my post once I realize you had posted in the interim.
Last edited by pankajs on 05 Aug 2019 14:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 14:46

^mehbooba mufti tweeted in morning..makes me wonder if her account is operated from pakistan...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hanumadu » 05 Aug 2019 14:47


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Aug 2019 14:48

Right now TV channels in Srinagar say everythign has to sink in, but even then they cant do anything worse than the stone pelting they have been doing for years and years.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 14:54

hanumadu wrote:Actually the reaction from congress in Rajya Sabha has been muted. They made some noise initially and still making some but not enough to affect the proceedings. The deputy chairman was repeatedly calling Ambika Soni to speak but she was just absent.

CON dilemma is clear at least to me if not its leaders.

They are in a bind. Condemn it the strongest term and loose the Yindu and middle class vote. Don't and loose the support of the BIF forces. Guess Azad jee as a Kashmiri has been fielded to manage the contradictions. Lets wait for Rahul and Priyanka to tweet on this.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby menon s » 05 Aug 2019 14:55

A glorious day in the history of my country. There is nothing special about Kashmir. Its just another state in the country.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 14:55

Chaalo this is done ... lets watch the hyenas howl in pain ...

Was going to use the snake metaphor or whatever it is called but realized today is Naag Panchami and Yindus worship Naag as devatas.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 05 Aug 2019 15:09

ArjunPandit wrote:^mehbooba mufti tweeted in morning..makes me wonder if her account is operated from pakistan...



or a sleepless night :mrgreen:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 15:13

wasnt internet curtailed in J&K?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Yagnasri » 05 Aug 2019 15:14

It was.

Pappu is abroad even now. Bottle is not a member of parliament. Their mother is not saying anything or can say anything as being a gora lady will be exposed.

Just watch out of SC and the cases that are sure to follow.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 05 Aug 2019 15:17

This explains the moves clearly:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/k ... 2019-08-05
Kashmir: How govt used Article 370 to kill Article 370
Scrapping Article 370 would have required a constitutional amendment and also approval by the state legislature. The government, instead, used powers granted under Article 370(3) to make special status inoperative in J&K.
Prabhash K Dutta, August 5, 2019
In a major development, Union Home Minister Amit Shah moved a resolution in the Rajya Sabha to make Article 370 inoperative in Jammu and Kashmir. Interestingly, Amit Shah in his statement made in the Rajya Sabha invoked the same Article 370 to make inoperative. Section 3 of Article 370 empowers the President to declare the special status granted to Jammu and Kashmir under the Article inoperative anytime. A Presidential Order was issued using this provision to implement what the Bharatiya Janata Party had promised in the Lok Sabha election held in April-May, and which had been the party's long-standing demand. Article 370(3) reads, "Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing provisions of this article, the President may, by public notification, declare that this article shall cease to be operative or shall be operative only with such exceptions and modifications and from such date as he may specify" Article 370 accords special status to Jammu and Kashmir in many respects - giving the central government authority only over external affairs, defence and communication. Article 370 relates to "temporary provisions with respect to the State of Jammu and Kashmir" and limits "the power of Parliament to make laws for" the state to a specified list of subjects. Amit Shah also presented a resolution for reorganisation of Jammu and Kashmir. Ladakh will be a separate Union Territory without a legislature while the Jammu and Kashmir will be a Union Territory with a legislature.
This move by the Narendra Modi government came as a surprise. It was being speculated that the government would scrap Article 370 but many brushed off the idea saying the Supreme Court is seized with multiple cases relating to Article 370 and Article 35A. Instead of scrapping Article 370, the government used the power given by the same Article to the President to make the provision ineffective.
Scrapping of Article 370 would, otherwise, require a constitutional amendment under Article 368. But by invoking Article 370(3), the government has cleverly bypassed the amendment route. Tabling of resolution for adoption of the Presidential Order led to huge pandemonium in the Rajya Sabha. Oppoisiton leaders including Ghulam Nabi Azad opposed the move alleging that the government has "murdered" the Constitution.
Defending the move, Amit Shah said the Narendra Modi government has followed what was done by Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru in 1952 and 1962. Pandit Nehru and then Jammu and Kashmir Prime Minister Sheikh Abdullah had agreed on the Delhi Agreement in 1952 providing special privileges to the people of Kashmir on the matters of property ownership on the principles of hereditary. A Presidential Order was also implemented in 1962.
....
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 05 Aug 2019 15:19

pankajs wrote:Not a response to your post saar but of the one before of williams saar.
Just so happened that I did not quote him and you post got in the middle. I was too lazy to correct it but I guess I should have edited my post once I realize you had posted in the interim.

No problem Boss.
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 05 Aug 2019 15:36

The Hindu's report on the revocation of Article 370 is a laugh riot actually.
Parliament proceedings live | Constitution has been forgotten or thrown in the dustbin, says Derek O'Brien
Derek O'Brien (Trinamool Congress) says that he loves his motherland, democracy and the Parliament. He calls today Black Monday. He says he doesn't condone tearing up the Constitution.

Ghulam Nabi Azad, Leader of the Opposition, says he thought they would be discussing the reservation Bill, but now that discussion is pointless. He says he never thought this would happen. You could've brought the Bill after the Assembly election, he says. :((

We went from Prime Minister to Chief Minister, now we're at Lt. Governor. You've made the Governor a clerk. You've made Jammu and Kashmir a non-entity. :((

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Yagnasri » 05 Aug 2019 15:37

There may be a need for approval of the Parliament with simple majority for creation of Ladakh UT and J&K UT. I think as of today there are numbers for it.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 05 Aug 2019 15:41

g.sarkar wrote:In a major development, Union Home Minister Amit Shah moved a resolution in the Rajya Sabha to make Article 370 inoperative in Jammu and Kashmir. Interestingly, Amit Shah in his statement made in the Rajya Sabha invoked the same Article 370 to make inoperative. Section 3 of Article 370 empowers the President to declare the special status granted to Jammu and Kashmir under the Article inoperative anytime.

What can happen in a "secular" government comes back to the centre? Can they bring back this article? Or is the idea to balkanize J&K to two different entities so much so that even bringing back Art. 370 will not have any effect?

Yagnasri wrote:There may be a need for approval of the Parliament with simple majority for creation of Ladakh UT and J&K UT. I think as of today there are numbers for it.

From what I understand, the plan to split a state requires majority in both houses of Parliament. In Lok Sabha the "communals" any way are in big majority, and in Rajya Sabha too they have backing of some parties like Biju Patnaik's party etc. They would mostly have the numbers there as well.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 15:48

^^
On the first part. Was done in the days when there was no opposition, no media or SM and Chacha was still a taaaaaaaaaaaaal leader.

Those days ate gone.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby arshyam » 05 Aug 2019 16:04

Sachin wrote:What can happen in a "secular" government comes back to the centre? Can they bring back this article? Or is the idea to balkanize J&K to two different entities so much so that even bringing back Art. 370 will not have any effect?

They can, via a constitutional amendment, which needs 2/3 present and voting, plus simple majority of 50% of all state legislatures. I don't think they can add a article to the temporary section again without both houses voting for it at minimum. Maybe Yagnasri garu could comment further about this?

Yagnasri wrote:There may be a need for approval of the Parliament with simple majority for creation of Ladakh UT and J&K UT. I think as of today there are numbers for it.

Isn't it both houses present and voting? It should easily pass then. Even if both houses have to vote separately, at the beginning of today's proceedings, the VP announced that he had accepted the resignations of 2 RS MPs with immediate effect after due verification. So the strength of RS is further reduced, and is bound to help the govt push this through.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby tsarkar » 05 Aug 2019 16:10

manjgu wrote:bifurcation solves many but not all problems. 1) ladhak will develop more rapidly now with more funds, quicker decision making and being free from srinagars overbearing control. All kinds of kashmiri chuts come to ladhak to inspect and order 2) jammu and kashmir as UT means LG will have lot of say in administration ..most notably police will be under LG. The previous CM's compromised the police and thus the anti terrorism ops 3) annuling 35A means demographics of J&K will change and with that delimitation etc. the CG will shift towards Jammu in medium to long term. 4) question of infiltration , terrorism will persist and will need more resolute action. But this is a HUGE step

Very good summary.

Infiltration and terrorism happens at Maharastra too via Kasab and Article 370 or lack of it wont impact it anyways.

Operations like Uri and Balkot will curtail infiltration and terrorism.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vikas » 05 Aug 2019 16:11

Even Kejriwal welcomed the move :)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby NRao » 05 Aug 2019 16:12


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 05 Aug 2019 16:18

Vikas wrote:Even Kejriwal welcomed the move :)

That guy doesn't have much option. Dilli assembly elections are round the corner. People will stone him if he sides with Congress.

BTW, congress out from the equation in all coming assembly elections. They had good chance in Dilli but the stupids have lost it too.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Ashokk » 05 Aug 2019 16:20

Article 370 scrapped: What will change in Jammu & Kashmir
NEW DELHI: The government on Monday abolished Article 370 that gave special status to Jammu and Kashmir and moved a separate bill to bifurcate the state into two separate union territories of Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh, amid massive opposition uproar in Rajya Sabha.
Home Minister Amit Shah moved a resolution in the House to abolish Article 370 after the President issued a notification in this regard and also moved the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill 2019.
What will change in J&K with revocation of Article 370:-

* Separate constitution
Earlier, Jammu and Kashmir was the only state in the country with its separate constitution as per the provisions mentioned in Article 370, a 'temporary provision' that grants special autonomous status to Jammu & Kashmir.
Now, the government's decision to revoke Article 370 will revoke the special provision which grants power to J&K to have its own constitution. With the revocation of Article 370, Jammu and Kashmir will adhere to the Constitution of India, much like the rest of the country.

* Right to buy property
Earlier, Article 35A, which is based on Article 370, empowered the J&K legislature to define the state's 'permanent residents' and grant them special rights and privileges.
Now, with the scrapping of Article 370 (and hence Article 35A) people from outside J&K will also be able to to buy property in the state and settle there.

* Law and order
Earlier, law and order was under the control of the state government
Now, following the bifurcation of the state into two Union Territories — J&K and Ladakh, the law and order machinery will have to be restructured. The government can structure the power-sharing model on the lines of either Delhi or Puducherry, both union territories. In Delhi, law and order is under the control of the Union government, while in Puducherry, law and order is a state subject.

* Central laws
Earlier, the central government had to seek approval of the state legislature to draft and enact laws.
Now, central laws will automatically apply to the state.

* Separate flag
Earlier, Article 370 granted special permission to J&K to have its own flag along with the national flag.
Now, it will depend upon Parliament to decide if the state can continue having its own flag.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 05 Aug 2019 16:20

tsarkar wrote:
manjgu wrote:bifurcation solves many but not all problems. 1) ladhak will develop more rapidly now with more funds, quicker decision making and being free from srinagars overbearing control. All kinds of kashmiri chuts come to ladhak to inspect and order 2) jammu and kashmir as UT means LG will have lot of say in administration ..most notably police will be under LG. The previous CM's compromised the police and thus the anti terrorism ops 3) annuling 35A means demographics of J&K will change and with that delimitation etc. the CG will shift towards Jammu in medium to long term. 4) question of infiltration , terrorism will persist and will need more resolute action. But this is a HUGE step

Very good summary.

Infiltration and terrorism happens at Maharastra too via Kasab and Article 370 or lack of it wont impact it anyways.

Operations like Uri and Balkot will curtail infiltration and terrorism.

The most important part is J&K police will be under home ministry. That itself will give sleepless nights to separatists.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 05 Aug 2019 16:23

Congress Rajya Sabha whip resigns citing congress's whip against the government move on 370. Huge.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 16:24

Let me throw in a Chanyakan ...

Suppose India wanted to ask Trump/USA to put up or shut up on Kashmir but without being overtly antagonistic or bombastic, how would one go about it?

I would do something in Kashmir, not to the Kashmiri people but the status quo in Kashmir, that would make the Bakis squeal and ask for Trump/US intervention. So now the US either comes batting for the Baki line or stays quite.

IF Trump/US stays quite the latest Baki/Hurry-rats dream/narrative would stand demolished and it would also drive a wedge between the two even before their AfPak pact could be sealed just as Bakis tried to drive a wedge between India and the US.

US/Trump can ofsource side with the bakis verbally at least but they will loose further credibility with Modi/GOI/India but be unable to do anything about it. IF US/Trump have made up their mind there is nothing we could do about it except seeking clarity on the US stand.

So by my Chanakyan theory, this was ALSO a question put up to US/Trump/Bakis AND to ALL political parties in India! Never underestimate Modi/Shah. Every party in Indian is indirectly being asked to makes its stand clear. Make no mistake. Sample this.

https://twitter.com/ncbn/status/1158313516765306880
N Chandrababu Naidu @ncbn
Telugu Desam Party supports the Union Govt as it seeks to repeal Article 370. I pray for the peace and prosperity of the people of J&K.

#Article370

While CON/JDU have failed the test others are rushing to stay on the right side.

Update 1: Just read the previous post. EVERY elected leader is being put to the same Agni pariksha. Devious, I tell you, these sanghi duo are!!
Last edited by pankajs on 05 Aug 2019 16:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sonugn » 05 Aug 2019 16:35

NCP will abstain

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 05 Aug 2019 16:37

Sonugn wrote:NCP will abstain

They are doing this out of spite against BJP as Fadnavis in MH has put a big bamboo in their behind.

It is the JDU who opposed the move are real snakes and need to be demolished in the election.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby greatde » 05 Aug 2019 16:42

Ppl are jumping on the bandwagon. Most people think that just because going one side hasnt worked, going the opposite side will solve it. Its amateurish thinking and really nobody knows how it will all work out...

This scrapping is probably the easiest step, the harder steps are making sure, fair and good opportunities, security are there for our people, businesses to develop. So a long road ahead, but it has made the existing leaders of NC, PDP redundant as they failed to preserve the “status quo” which was their main agenda. So there can be emerging space for new leaders and that can go both ways.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 05 Aug 2019 16:49

greatde wrote:Ppl are jumping on the bandwagon. Most people think that just because going one side hasnt worked, going the opposite side will solve it. Its amateurish thinking and really nobody knows how it will all work out...

Are you talking about future? it is anybody's guess. It is completely personal perspective to be positive or negative and play what-if future scenario in mind to no end. We can only learn from the past and if the problem was not solved by method X then we should try method Y.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 16:57

Agony pareeksha for CON ... but they are failing ... BJP will keep harping on the CON stand in the upcoming state elections!

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 7841510400
Aditya Raj Kaul @AdityaRajKaul
Congress Chief Whip Bhuvaneshwar Kalita quits party over Article 370 stand. Says, he was asked by party to issue Whip but this is against the mood and emotions of the nation. Says he quits the party as the party is on way towards destruction. Huge. Embarrassment for Congress.
Last edited by pankajs on 05 Aug 2019 16:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Primus » 05 Aug 2019 16:58

Historic day for Kashmir and for the nation. Exactly what was hoped for and expected from Modi Ji, having Amit Shah has only strengthened his hands and his resolve. 2019 will be a landmark in the history of India.

The crowning glory would be resolution of the Ayodhya issue. Even more convinced that is next on the domestic agenda.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 17:04

pankajs wrote:Agony pareeksha for CON ... but they are failing ... BJP will keep harping on the CON stand in the upcoming state elections!

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 7841510400
Aditya Raj Kaul @AdityaRajKaul
Congress Chief Whip Bhuvaneshwar Kalita quits party over Article 370 stand. Says, he was asked by party to issue Whip but this is against the mood and emotions of the nation. Says he quits the party as the party is on way towards destruction. Huge. Embarrassment for Congress.

was about to post this...was this intended? this paves the way for folks with active conscience in congress to join bjp..

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Primus » 05 Aug 2019 17:08

Beautiful piece by Kumar Vishwas on twitter:

https://twitter.com/DrKumarVishwas/stat ... 3068641280

भारतमाता के माथे की पुरातन पीर हरने के लिए सरकार का आभार ! हर नागरिक से अनुरोध है कि दशकों से लम्बित इस शल्यक्रिया के दौरान देश के साथ रहें ! ये ऐतिहासिक क्षण हैं


“दर्द कहाँ तक पाला जाए,
युद्ध कहाँ तक टाला जाए,
तू भी है राणा का वंशज,
फेंक जहाँ तक भाला जाए”

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby varshar » 05 Aug 2019 17:12

Very impressed by this gutsy move from Shah & Modi... straight out of the Mahabharata (messing up US-PAK dynamics, quelling legislative complications, & liberating the people of Ladakh) - though I still cannot figure out who is Arjun and who is Bhim :-)

I've always supported INC even if it's been wishful thinking sometimes - barring a lifelong admiration for the statesmanlike ABV - but if this duo keep hitting such home-runs for India, might wake up one day supporting BJP.


Kudos!
- Varun

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 17:14

Just in case we didnt notice motabhai has been in parliament for less than 100 days, the key things that have happened
1. UAPA
2. IMC
3. RTI
4. Art 370
5. J&K reservation bill
#bills introduced: 35


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