J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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KLNMurthy
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2019 03:55

abhijitm wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Which is the other bird?

The reason Gupta is speaking of, i.e. safeguard against terrorist onslaught post US departure from Afghanistan. Which is valid, but not THE reason what Gupta was trying to spin.

It's a good spin and makes it possible to "sell" more widely. Even to anti-Trump brigade in US: see, Trump surrendered to TSP, India had no choice.

I am sure Modi & co would happily give up "credit" & glory if even one soldier's life is spared due to wider acceptance of the move.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby IndraD » 06 Aug 2019 04:25

Radio silence from B Dutt, Nidhi Razdan etc. Perhaps they full understand consequences of misadventure

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 04:45

pankajs wrote:
KJo wrote:The normally eloquent Shashi Tharoor seems to be at a loss for words. :rotfl:
19 hours, and no post.

Reason is obvious!

Can't deviate from the CON position without signal from the top BUT the CON position is highly unpopular on the ground all across India and my guess is in his constituency too. Therefore, he is hiding.


maybe something fell on his head..again ? :mrgreen:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 04:46

IndraD wrote:Radio silence from B Dutt, Nidhi Razdan etc. Perhaps they full understand consequences of misadventure



Well , GOI can designate anyone as a terrorist now :mrgreen: , they might even bait these gangs :rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sumeet » 06 Aug 2019 04:47

BDutt had some tweets on this issue. But she of all understand the mood of the nation. Why be on the loosing side ?

But given their nature/habit sooner or later they will find an issue to blow up and bicker about. For example for any reason if a Kashmiri is involved in an altercation with another person (non Kashmiri) which really could also happened between any two Indians. These types of people will be first one to pick it up for their narrative purpose.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 04:47

EswarPrakash wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:^^why do they come only after it has happened...


More like "how do we rub the American and Pakistani faces in it?"

"I had told your friend about it before, didn't they tell you?"


make that BFF :rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby krishna_krishna » 06 Aug 2019 04:49

Again with good news we need to plan for the future, I believe (not dhoti shivering) that porkis are left with no choice but to respond.

I believe they would try to come with another tactical victory, this is the time to go for all Pok. I believe both sides would have calculated moves and countermove, I sincerely pray we pay in kind once and for all.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sumeet » 06 Aug 2019 04:51

A fight in PoK would be disastrous for Pakis and China won't be too pleased to see its hardware/equipment and infrastructure it has built up be blown up.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 04:52

So what happens to the Omar Abdullah , Mehbooba Mufti ityadi politicians in an union territory ..maybe go to london ? :mrgreen:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 04:53

Sumeet wrote:A fight in PoK would be disastrous for Pakis and China won't be too pleased to see its hardware/equipment and infrastructure it has built up be blown up.


i say that would be a good reason to target chinese infrastructure in indian territory ( POK) :mrgreen: ..and that would play right into Indias hands !

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 05:00

https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/5th-august-2019-the-death-of-nehruvian-secularism-and-the-dawn-of-a-new-india/


There are moments in history the significance of which mere words cannot capture. Human language has not evolved enough to contain the vocabulary required to adequately describe the essence of their import. The 5th of August, 2019 is one such day.

It will go down in history as the day when the future of India was changed forever. The abolition of Article 370 and consequently, Article 35A, marks a new beginning for our country. Monumental days such as today have key players who are immortalized forever. A single decision taken by a few extraordinary men translates into a giant leap for an entire nation.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hnair » 06 Aug 2019 05:02

A few things that changed:
- LOC will become IB and an attack on A border post can be retaliated anywhere in the 1000s of miles of IB

- India always followed the policy of UT -> Full Statehood in a phased manner in such cases. It is conditional on whether Shree Abdulla and Smt Mufti behaving nice and following Indian democratic norms. Sikkim had a similar trajectory

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby krithivas » 06 Aug 2019 05:12

How high is the constitutional bar that a future Government may re-impose article 370/35A/etc. etc.?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 06 Aug 2019 05:15

https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/5th-aug ... new-india/


That's a dog whistle. It is evident that Pakistanis and others will see this process as the further roll back of Islam in Indic lands.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby rgosain » 06 Aug 2019 05:16

Actually I was looking forward to Trump negotiating the future of COK with 11 and running a plebescite 70 years after the facts have changed.
In all of this the prc and the Saudis has been conspicuosly silent, though of course their mouthpieces like nyt, cnn, The Independent and Reuters have been carrying on like the empty vessels that make the most noise.
This move further exposes cpec/obor projects in POK as a tool to contain India 20 years after kargil as well as gaining prime real estate by beggaring pakistan
Last edited by rgosain on 06 Aug 2019 05:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 05:20

krithivas wrote:How high is the constitutional bar that a future Government may re-impose article 370/35A/etc. etc.?

No bar.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SriKumar » 06 Aug 2019 05:46

hnair wrote:A few things that changed:
- LOC will become IB and an attack on A border post can be retaliated anywhere in the 1000s of miles of IB
I dont think so.....LOC becoming IB implies India giving up claim to POK, which aint happening under Modi.
As for retaliation at other spots, a Congress Party man did it in 1965 :eek: . Lal Bahadur Shastri was the PM when PAkistan sent troops only into Kashmir in their attack (operation Searchlight/Gibralter or something) in Aug (?) 1965. After a few days of fighting, LBS sent tanks across the Radcliffe line in Punjab. India's position was set right there that an attack across LoC will invite a reliation anywhere along settled border.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby KJo » 06 Aug 2019 05:49

kit wrote:So what happens to the Omar Abdullah , Mehbooba Mufti ityadi politicians in an union territory ..maybe go to london ? :mrgreen:


Yes, I think it's a good idea to ponder over their options. They are not stuck in the J&K UT, but it will have an Assembly, so can't they find a spot there? I know it would be loss of H&D but it's better than sitting at home tweeting all the time.

Shehla Rashid/Ayyoub type trolls will have no other market for what they are selling. If they go beyond a point, they would be charged with causing communal incidents.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby a_bharat » 06 Aug 2019 06:11

A twitter thread on the events:
Aayush Narayan
@AayushNarayan3
16 hours ago, 21 tweets, 14 min read Read on Twitter

Step 1. Withdrawal of support from mehbooba mufti Government. This was Important so that the power to give consent moves to Governor.
Live: BJP quits J&K govt.; Mehbooba resigns, says she told Governor PDP will not go into any other alliance
It has become untenable for the BJP to continue with the alliance government in Jammu and Kashmir, says BJP vice president Ram Madhav.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 200485.ece

Step 2.
Presidential order to transfer power of assembly to Parliament was passed in 2018 using power of president under Article 356.

Step3.
In order to validate it Further and remove objection from SUpreme court, SCST amendment was passed using this power and as expected court did not say anything.

Step 4.
Now because of validation given to SCST bill, the power of governor becomes unquestioned . Using the precedent of 1952, the power of constituent assembly is transferred to State assembly. See last clause
And power of state assembly were already with Governor since 2018.

So the trap was laid way back in june 2018 when bjp quit Jand K.
Live: BJP quits J&K govt.; Mehbooba resigns, says she told Governor PDP will not go into any other alliance
It has become untenable for the BJP to continue with the alliance government in Jammu and Kashmir, says BJP vice president Ram Madhav.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 200485.ece

And When the governor got a sniff of coalition in J&K, he dissolved the assembly.
So, the whole controversy about dissolution was aprt of this.
Jammu & Kashmir Governor dissolves Assembly after rivals stake claim to govt formation
The state is now headed for a further spell of presidents rule after the first six-month term ends on December 19.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 739283.cms

This govt formation was only for wasting time till the above conditions are not formed.

Summary
1.Form govt to dissolve atcright time.
2.Withdraw support to empower governor.
3.Controversial dissolution and Prez rule.
4.Use 356 to empower governor.
5.Validate from SC using SCST bill
6.Use 1952 precedent to tranfer power to assembly which means governor now.
7.Done

The real test was time of withdrawal from government. BJP withdrew just an year before General election. Now they just had to wait till election commission announced date of elections. But JK parties formed coalition before this could happen.
But governor Satyapal Trumped them.

This early dissolution created another problem. Now the Elections could be held with General elections. But Home ministry raised security issue and elections were delayed. The power was still with Governor. Mehbooba understood this game so did omar.

They cried
Mehbooba Mufti
@MehboobaMufti
Decision to hold only Parliamentary elections in J&K confirms sinister designs of GoI. Not letting people elect a government is antithetical to the very idea of democracy. Also a tactic of buying time to disempower people by pushing an agenda that suits their ulterior motives.
6:59 PM - Mar 10, 2019


But Election commision didn’t relent. Now, no threat to power of governor till LS2019.
Now the t8me was ripe to pass the SCST amendment bill Thus, establishing the powers of governor.
In this bill consent of Governor was construed as consent of State assembly. SC accepted

Now, the Supreme courts Activist judges cannot backtrack. If they backtrack, they would be deemed anti Dalit. They have to relent.
Once they accepted SCST bill, they cannot go back. Judicial activists cannot fight real Chanakya

From forming a govenment to withdrawing at right time. Giving power to governor using 356 to passing SCST act to validate his power. The BJP managed, media, opposition, Judiciary and naysayers within their own ranks.

I am really amazed at the think tank behind all this.

While everyone was speculationg future of J&K, BJP was creating rift within NC and PDP. Their sole aim was to delay coalition as much as possible. Even if Mehbooba wanted coalition with Omar, BJP made sure that they fall short of numbers.
Rebel PDP MLAs criticise Mehbooba for saying Centre ‘engineering’ split in party
The rebels also said they considered the “accession of Jammu and Kashmir with India as final”.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 413184.ece

Another division planted to delay coalition
Sajad Lone Will be CM Face, Has Public Support, Says Rebel PDP MLA
Abid Ansari also said that this group had support of 48 MLAs, 5 of which are from the NC and 4 from the Congress, 25 from the bjp and 14 from the PDP.
https://www.news18.com/news/politics/sa ... 46495.html

And Article 370 has not been removed, rather it has been made powerless . Therefore, no amendment was done.

Many people are confused that it needs an amendment to remove an article from constitution, how did BJP managed without it.
The fact is 370 will remain in constitution, but as a powerless relic. It has been made powerless and useless. https://twitter.com/republic/status/1158304003760877573

The Most important event was this. The missing Fax . This sealed the fate of 370.
Fax stranger than fiction: J&K governor Satya Pal Malik claims he did not get fax as it was a holiday
Former chief minister Mehbooba Mufti had faxed a letter to the governor's office staking claim to form a government
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/fa ... id/1676272

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2019 06:22

I now understand why the Pulwama retaliation was against Khyber-Pakhtoonkwa, not POK. Modi didn't want to drop bombs on Indian territory, nor biss off the ppl there. :LOL

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Anujan » 06 Aug 2019 06:36

UlanBatori wrote:Could someone pls go to Phoren Polijy and post this under the Michael Terrorist Kugelmann article?

Kugelmann is Paris hilton of foreign policy. Everybody agrees he is famous. Nobody knows what he has done or why.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Anujan » 06 Aug 2019 06:38

IndraD wrote:Radio silence from B Dutt, Nidhi Razdan etc. Perhaps they full understand consequences of misadventure


He is famous Barkha prediction yesterday what is going to happen before AS speech in RS

Our eye, so accustomed to understanding trouble via a Srinagar prism, should infact move well beyond the valley. And should also keep a close watch on happenings in the Kargil-Ladakh area in particular, along with Poonch Rajouri at the other end.

My common sense tells me that if the big move coming in Jammu and Kashmir was 35A, the GOI would have waited till after the yatra. Its clear that India is either reacting to something already in play or preempting something that may be coming. Afghanistan. Trump. Pakistan. China


No 1 Geostrategic political analyst of our times!!

I too want to become a strategic thinker, going to tweet stuff like "We should watch the asian landmass in particular with Indian ocean on one side, pacific ocean on the other and should move beyond seeing things through the China-India-US prism"

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SriKumar » 06 Aug 2019 06:57

This music video is very much related to the thread. The movie is called 'Kashmir ki Kali' ( there you go). It was shot on Dal Lake, Srinagar (J&K). ...agree the relevance is a bit iffy on the 'news' part, but hey, on a day like today, anything KAshmiri is newsworthy. :D :D

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2019 07:11

The "commonsense" stmt above:

A curious statement. Come 2 think of it, there WAS a sudden order to Amarnath pilgrims, students, everyone to GTH out of J&K/Ladakh IMMEDIATELY.

Element of surprise? Or reacting to Clear & Present Danger? What danger?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2019 07:14

Meanwhile in La La Land: quoting India Today:

Reacting to the bifurcation of Jammu and Kashmir, Maryam Nawaz, the daughter of erstwhile Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif, said that Imran Khan was fooled by Donald Trump's talks about mediating in the Kashmir conflict and did not anticipate what India was planning.


"You Mr Khan (Imran Khan) failed to anticipate what was coming and were either completely oblivious to the preparations that the Indian government was undertaking or were a part of that," Maryam said.

Referring to United States President Donald Trump's offer to mediate on Kashmir, which was extended during Khan's visit to Washington last month, Maryam said that the people of Pakistan "must be told what commitments were sought" between the two sides.

"We the people of Pakistan must be told what commitments were sought by and given to the US by Imran Khan," she said.

"Was the offer for mediation a trap that you walked into and gloated over, or you, as usual, had no clue about what was being planned by the enemy?" Maryam added.

Maryam Nawaz took a critical view of the ruling Imran Khan-led Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), Maryam further said: "Unprecedented situation calls for extraordinary leadership."

"At this critical juncture, Pakistan needs exceptional, undisputed & dynamic leadership that has the ability &statesmanship to respond to the aspirations of hundreds of millions of Pakistanis & Kashmiris," Maryam added while captioning her tweet as "#KashmirHumaraHai".
advertisement

She also announced that she will be holding a rally in Sargodha tomorrow regarding New Delhi's decision to scrap Article 370 of the Indian Constitution that provides special status to Jammu and Kashmir.

"My rally in Sargodha tomorrow is now dedicated to Kashmir," Maryam wrote on Twitter.

The rally, Maryam said, "shall not only express solidarity with our Kashmiri brethren" but also address the "revoking of Article 370".

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby jash_p » 06 Aug 2019 07:42

While watching paki talk show different people rant their anger

1) On capital talk their POK occupied Kashmir Prime minister told which means that Imran should blackmail Trump and EU that give us Kashmir or your 15,000 troops may sahidised in Afghanistan
2) Amir Mir told that Modi have slapped Trump openly and Trump should take revenge of it.
3) Maria Sultana said Paki should forget diplomacy and just declare war and send air force to bomb Indian forward base.
4) Hassan Nisar said Paki should use Nuclear bomb and finish the matter we will get destroyed but we have other 56 Muslim nations while India is only one Hindu nation and they will also get destroyed.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2019 07:46

hnair wrote:A few things that changed:
- LOC will become IB and an attack on A border post can be retaliated anywhere in the 1000s of miles of IB

- India always followed the policy of UT -> Full Statehood in a phased manner in such cases. It is conditional on whether Shree Abdulla and Smt Mufti behaving nice and following Indian democratic norms. Sikkim had a similar trajectory


If LoC becomes IB means we have conceded that PoK and AC are not part of larger J&K and Ladakh region, hence not part of India. Not sure if I want to look at it that way.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 06 Aug 2019 08:01

jash_p wrote:While watching paki talk show different people rant their anger

1) On capital talk their POK occupied Kashmir Prime minister told which means that Imran should blackmail Trump and EU that give us Kashmir or your 15,000 troops may sahidised in Afghanistan
2) Amir Mir told that Modi have slapped Trump openly and Trump should take revenge of it.
3) Maria Sultana said Paki should forget diplomacy and just declare war and send air force to bomb Indian forward base.
4) Hassan Nisar said Paki should use Nuclear bomb and finish the matter we will get destroyed but we have other 56 Muslim nations while India is only one Hindu nation and they will also get destroyed.




Mohammedan geniuses, all of them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Anujan » 06 Aug 2019 08:07

To give a fitting response to India, Pakistan's National Assembly as canceled today's session to protest India's decision.

Shiver in your dhotis you SDREs!!!!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Atmavik » 06 Aug 2019 08:11

Anujan wrote:To give a fitting response to India, Pakistan's National Assembly as canceled today's session to protest India's decision.

Shiver in your dhotis you SDREs!!!!



https://twitter.com/nailainayat/status/ ... 3684616194

pakis are in melt down mode.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shravanp » 06 Aug 2019 08:15

kit wrote:So what happens to the Omar Abdullah , Mehbooba Mufti ityadi politicians in an union territory ..maybe go to london ? :mrgreen:



Good ol days are over...

They might start demanding full statehood kejru style but its subject to now new babu-dom :D (will take its own sweet time till the abdullahs become bankrupt)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby khan » 06 Aug 2019 08:25

Atmavik wrote:
Anujan wrote:To give a fitting response to India, Pakistan's National Assembly as canceled today's session to protest India's decision.

Shiver in your dhotis you SDREs!!!!



https://twitter.com/nailainayat/status/ ... 3684616194

pakis are in melt down mode.

There were some murmurings about the National Assembly debate schedule not having Article 370 on the agenda :rotfl: guess this is their solution.

They are so impotent it’s pathetic. I really wish they did something stupid & faced consequences, like losing some of pok.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby darshan » 06 Aug 2019 08:30

Not sure if this desh drohi guy has been removed from all places or not. Hopefully needful would happen soon.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ram_Guha

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shravanp » 06 Aug 2019 08:37

khan wrote:They are so impotent it’s pathetic. I really wish they did something stupid & faced consequences, like losing some of pok.


As a matter of fact, there are quite a few Zaid Hamid vids on youtube and oh man, what meltdown these guys are having. More than Indians, they are abusing their own folks for being so impotent

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2019 08:42

Guys any idea how we can get aksai chin back?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby khan » 06 Aug 2019 08:43

shravanp wrote:As a matter of fact, there are quite a few Zaid Hamid vids on youtube and oh man, what meltdown these guys are having. More than Indians, they are abusing their own folks for being so impotent


Yes & loving the conspiracy theories especially from the likes of Ayshea Siddiqa - who made a reputation as being level headed & analytic (even wrote books about the TSP Mil-Industrial Complex), now reduced to peddling conspiracy theories about some secret deal - because she can’t accept the more obvious explanation of their impotence.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby EswarPrakash » 06 Aug 2019 08:44

darshan wrote:Not sure if this desh drohi guy has been removed from all places or not. Hopefully needful would happen soon.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ram_Guha


It's meltdown. Ignore them and move on

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Shankas » 06 Aug 2019 09:52

Modiji's August 15th speech from Lal Kila.

Mitron...mere pyare POK ke Mitron...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Aug 2019 09:54

https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/former- ... -over-pok/
Former Pakistan High Commissioner to India Abdul Basit casts gloom over future, says Modi might ask Trump to mediate over PoK
According to Basit, Ram Madhav had said to him 2014 that the BJP will move towards abrogating Articles 370 and 35A and that Pakistan should not be wasting its time on Kashmir.
AUGUST 5, 2019
Narendra Modi-led BJP government’s audacious decision of scrapping Article 370 and bifurcating Jammu and Kashmir into two Union territories have set Pakistanis on their heels as they cannot bring themselves to the fact that India has proceeded towards complete integration of Jammu and Kashmir in its union. Many Pakistanis, including former Pakistan high commissioner to India, Abdul Basit raised their concern over the future of Jammu of Kashmir conflict as he expressed his apprehension in an interview on a Pakistani news channel.
Basit mentioned that he met senior BJP member Ram Madhav in 2014 and had a good 1-1.5 hours chat with him to understand BJP’s stand on Kashmir. According to Basit, Madhav made himself amply clear that the BJP will move towards abrogating Articles 370 and 35A and that Pakistan should not be wasting its time on Kashmir. Basit further added saying that Madhav issued a threat to Pakistan saying it should be more concerned about Pakistan occupied Kashmir as his government might even move to stake its claim over the disputed territory under Pakistan’s control.
......
Gautam
PS Did not someone in BRF talk about DT mediating on POK and COK?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Anujan » 06 Aug 2019 10:40

Audacious move, hopefully it works out.

I am dhoti shivering for two reasons

1. UT with Legislative assembly means that nobody has any power. Usually the chance that you can someday get power is what makes people behave. What happens to Omar Abdullah and Mehbooba? Will they go gently into the good night? Or start cutting deals with Bakistan and hurrirats? If people reject moderates (yes they are moderates, at least they are not totting a AK), who will their leaders be?

2. This gives Bakistan no reason to behave. Not that they were behaving in the past, but remember that Gen Bandicoot's ceasefire is what enabled us to fence the border. They send in jiahadis, we go door to door, some young kid starts pelting stones, rinse and repeat.

I hope better sense prevails for at least two years and in those two years I hope that the administration is efficient, roots out all the fat corrupt rats, there is direct delivery of services and development to the people and they see real improvement in their lives and reject the gun.


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