J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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ashish raval
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ashish raval » 11 Feb 2018 14:13

chetak wrote:twitter

My country...
You throw ink, egg or shoe at any leader..
You will be arrested on the spot immediately.
But if you throw stones on forces, army...
Armymen may be arrested!
Do we see such act of stone throwing on Forces in any other states & countries?

If words like this do not cut from spine through to the conscience of a society, then nothing will.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2018 14:34

Image

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 11 Feb 2018 16:07

All iz well...Rajnathji has swung into action :-?

Ops against terrorists in Sunjwan to be over successfully: Rajnath: Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh today exuded confidence that the ongoing operation against terrorists, who attacked an Army camp in Jammu, would be concluded successfully soon.

"Operation is still undergoing," he told reporters on the sidelines of a function in New Delhi.


Seems to have forgotten to state the usual "kadi ninda" line.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 11 Feb 2018 17:11

the gubermint has lost its way. even for a corruption complaint to be proceeded against, the complainant has to ensure that all sorts to clearances are procured. but here a FIR is registered against an Army officer by name and nobody is owning up as to who granted permission for this to take place. The rot appears to go to the very top in Union Govt. The system of checks and balances seem to have been given the go by, whilst registering FIRs against the army and its officers; but religiously observed when proceeding against corrupt politcos, bureaucrats, and officials of every sort.
Now when terrorists infiltrate and find safe havens in Jammu all we get is kari ninda and muh tod jawab.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Viv S » 11 Feb 2018 17:36

There seems to be a confusion with regard to legal terminology here, so lets clarify a few things here.

An FIR i.e. a First Information Report is exactly what it sounds like - an information report. Basically a statement taken by the police. The police is legally required to file an FIR and, as per a SC ruling, it has to do so regardless of its veracity, which is to be determined by a subsequent investigation. No govt permission is required. (Police can't refuse to register an FIR, rules Supreme Court)

The FIR is not to be confused with a chargesheet (which involves the public prosecutor) or an arrest warrant (which is issued by the court).

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2018 18:38

A FIR against armed personnel in J&K is useless as they are protected by AFSPA. It is only for optics of the Mufti govt to keep the Sunni Kashmiri Islamists happy. Both the Abdullahs and Muftis are playing the same game.

BTW what happened to the case of Article 35A which was supposed to come up for hearing in SC. That single piece of legislation if overturned will change the situation significantly.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Dipanker » 11 Feb 2018 18:52

brvarsh wrote:If India really need to save Kashmir article 370 has to go. Rohingyas and other illegals have to be thrown out.


So why has this not been done at least in the parliament where the govt. has the majority to pass the such a bill?
Remember this was part of the election manifesto of the ruling party so at least they could have passed a bill in the parliament? I can understand that bill perhaps would not have passed in RS or got bogged down in litigation in SC but at least the ruling party would have kept its word as promised in the election manifesto?

Similarly in the PIL filed in SC to resciend article 35 related , iirc govt. actually took a position to continue with it than support resciending it.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2018 19:44

Who are you trying to fool? Why should the govt want to pass a constitutional amendment bill when it knows to has no numbers to pass it. As for article 35A previous govts supported the bill in SC which is why it was not scrapped. This time they have left it to the courts.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2018 19:49

x posted from the border watch thread


obviously, the jehadis and the rohingyas were watching.

twitter



Govt needs to answer why the Sunjuwan Military Station in #Jammu was not properly sealed with proper thick walls and fencing on all sides. Look at how tin sheets were kept to seal the boundary apart from the old brick wall. We can’t risk lives of Army personnel, their families.

Image

Image

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2018 20:09

It looks like it is under construction. Probably local OWGs passed on the information about vulnerability.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 11 Feb 2018 21:00

Supratik wrote:It looks like it is under construction. Probably local OWGs passed on the information about vulnerability.


Its under REPAIR.

No way anyone should have waited this long. Look at its dilapidated condition.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Shameek » 11 Feb 2018 21:06

From Shiv Aroor Twitter
Death toll in #SunjwanAttack now stands at 6, with 11 persons injured. The 6 dead are:
1. Sub. Madan Lal Choudhary
2. Sub. Mohd. Ashraf Mir
3. Hav. Habibullah Quraishi
4. Naik Manzoor Ahmed
5. Lance Naik Mohd. Iqbal
6. Father of Lance Naik Mohd Iqbal
(4 terrorists killed)

:cry: Also heard ZEE News mention that the terrorists had planned to hide out and attack the school to create a Peshawar like scenario.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vidur » 11 Feb 2018 21:30

chetak wrote:Image


Unless there is a public outcry and national outrage think nothing will change. Will be instructive to see the government response. But ultimately if India needs to change it has to come bottom up. Top down won’t happen. Judiciary and media is compromised. Polity did not care anyway.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2018 21:35

5 terrorists eliminated. NewsX.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby brvarsh » 11 Feb 2018 22:26

Shameek wrote:From Shiv Aroor Twitter
Death toll in #SunjwanAttack now stands at 6, with 11 persons injured. The 6 dead are:
1. Sub. Madan Lal Choudhary
2. Sub. Mohd. Ashraf Mir
3. Hav. Habibullah Quraishi
4. Naik Manzoor Ahmed
5. Lance Naik Mohd. Iqbal
6. Father of Lance Naik Mohd Iqbal
(4 terrorists killed)

:cry: Also heard ZEE News mention that the terrorists had planned to hide out and attack the school to create a Peshawar like scenario.

We now need 30 heads to be severed of JeM cadets and their supporters. This kind of retaliation is the only language they will understand. Any terrorist organization will not have an endless supply of willing men. If it is too early to do this from this side of the border, then it has to be done from someplace else but JeM's leadership and their network needs to be dismantled across the border.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Dipanker » 11 Feb 2018 22:42

Supratik wrote:Who are you trying to fool? Why should the govt want to pass a constitutional amendment bill when it knows to has no numbers to pass it. As for article 35A previous govts supported the bill in SC which is why it was not scrapped. This time they have left it to the courts.


You are missing the point of my post. Notice that I am not saying the govt. would have succeeded in getting it through both houses of parliament. Even a passage of such a constitutional amendment bill through both houses does not guarantee that the article 370 would be overturned since the J&K assembly has the final say and we now how they would vote, at least for now.

My point is that govt. could have at least shown some intent by bringing such bill in Lok Sabha and may be passing it in Lok Sabha, but the ruling party has been largely silent on the issue compared to the loud noises it made earlier.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 11 Feb 2018 23:05

Don't want to get into politics here but you can see what they are doing with a simple bill like triple talak which has SC endorsement. In any case the present approach is correct. Article 35A is more important than Art370 as the former prevents other Indians from settling in J&K. Even if they had passed a bull repudiating Art35A it would have been challenged in SC by various BIFs. So better to go straight to SC. I only hope that they have a battery of pro-India lawyers as the other side has people like Fali Nariman.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Shameek » 11 Feb 2018 23:33

INJURED (From Hindustan Times)

1. Lt. Col. Rohit Solanki - 6 Mahar (Minor injuries)
2. Maj Avijit Singh - 6 Mahar (Head injury)
3. L/Nk Bahadur Singh - 1 JAK LI (Multiple injuries)
4. Havildar Abdul Hamid Rashid - 1 JAK LI (Head injuries)
5. Paramjeet Kaur, age 40, relative of Hony Lt Madan Lal Choudhary
6. Neha, age 20, daughter of Hony Lt Madan Lal Choudhary (Right leg)
7. Somati Jena, son of Hav Be. Haripoda Jena, PA to 36 BDE Cdr (Head injury)
8. Wife of Hav Satyendra, 36 Bde Camp (Minor injuries)
9. Daughter of Hav Satyendra, 36 Bde Camp (Minor injuries)
10. Sub. Rajinder Singh - 6 Mahar (Minor injuries)
11. Wife of Rifleman Nazir Ahmed (Injured. She was pregnant and delivered a baby at MH Satwari)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Feb 2018 00:25

It should be clear to our leadership that this incremental escalation or befitting response approach is not working. we need to really escalate things to deter porkis from doing such strikes. In NDA 1 it was both civilians and army, UPA, it was hapless and innocent civilians and now it is only army. The army gives them a high moral narrative. FWIW, we need to escalate significantly and think in a proactive manner. It could be drone strikes, cross border airstrikes or strikes on their ships or some missile strikes on ISI/Army headoffice.
We have tried peace and incremental approach far too long for too little. These pigs need to be burnt, no matter what the cost to us is

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Shameek » 12 Feb 2018 01:34

Subedar Madan Lal

Bakrah (Kathua): He faced a group of heavily armed desperate terrorists with bare hands, took scores of bullets on his chest and arms, yet ensured that the assailants could not inflict much harm on his family.

Subedar Madal Lal Choudhary, 50, eventually fell to the AK 47 bullets fired by the terrorists, who attacked his quarter at Sunjuwan Army station in Jammu, but still foiled their plan to cause maximum damage.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby anupmisra » 12 Feb 2018 02:10

Vidur wrote:Unless there is a public outcry and national outrage think nothing will change.


National outrage? Public outcry? From the average Indian? Don't make me laugh. The only outrage that I can remember was when family members of the hijacked passengers of IA flight that was routed to kandahar in 1999 besieged the government to get their loved ones released even if it meant the release of hard core terrorists (Maulana Masood Azhar, Sheikh Omar and Mushtaq Zargar) from Indian jails.

Nothing will change.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rishirishi » 12 Feb 2018 02:46

Dipanker wrote:
Supratik wrote:Who are you trying to fool? Why should the govt want to pass a constitutional amendment bill when it knows to has no numbers to pass it. As for article 35A previous govts supported the bill in SC which is why it was not scrapped. This time they have left it to the courts.


You are missing the point of my post. Notice that I am not saying the govt. would have succeeded in getting it through both houses of parliament. Even a passage of such a constitutional amendment bill through both houses does not guarantee that the article 370 would be overturned since the J&K assembly has the final say and we now how they would vote, at least for now.

My point is that govt. could have at least shown some intent by bringing such bill in Lok Sabha and may be passing it in Lok Sabha, but the ruling party has been largely silent on the issue compared to the loud noises it made earlier.


If you have majority in both LS and RS it is possible to pass any law. One could simply dissolve the J&K assemply and make it UT. If LS passes a law, but is rejected by RS, then a joint sessions can be held. As of now there simply is not a majority to change status quoe.

Next step should be to have the J&K governement conduct itself in a way that angers people in rest of India. Only then will the country be ready to do the needfull, Which is to change the demographics in J&K

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 12 Feb 2018 03:31

ArjunPandit wrote:It should be clear to our leadership that this incremental escalation or befitting response approach is not working. we need to really escalate things to deter porkis from doing such strikes. In NDA 1 it was both civilians and army, UPA, it was hapless and innocent civilians and now it is only army. The army gives them a high moral narrative. FWIW, we need to escalate significantly and think in a proactive manner. It could be drone strikes, cross border airstrikes or strikes on their ships or some missile strikes on ISI/Army headoffice.
We have tried peace and incremental approach far too long for too little. These pigs need to be burnt, no matter what the cost to us is


Sorry to say it, but ModiJi/DovalJi aggressive defense has failed. Surgical strikes are a distant memory. I think the duo thought that incremental escalation will scare the s@it out of TSP, but looks like TSP took all the casualties in its stride (both pigLeTs and TSPA pigLets) and hit back just enough to show India that TSP is no pushover.

To re-iterate, a corner stone of TSP's response is to put pressure on ModijI by Indians themselves to resume talks on Kashmir even as terror rages. Indian opposition gangsters are always dancing to TSP's tune. I was struck the other day that even erstwhile hawks like Ajai Sahni was following the TSP script by attacking Rakesh SinhaJi who made the limited point that only a war can bring TSP to book. He was not advocating war per se, he left that for the army to decide. But this clown Ajai Sahni attacked Rakesh Sinha as a "war monger" and arm chair one at that because he Rakesh Sinha doesn't have to fight. RakeshJi drilled some sense into him and said, I am not a war monger, TSP through its actions is already waging a war, and his (Ajai Sahni) ire must be directed at them.

Anyway, the point is that I don't see any stomach for escalation. Also, with the economy in shambles and recent election losses, ModiJi is definitely under pressure and so he is not going to take any risks, especially so since I am not convinced that Indian armed forces are capable of delivering some telling blows short of full scale war. TSP is fine with the current strategy of periodically taking out 10-15 of our guys while sacrificing a few of their disposable pigLeTs as we witnessed yesterday in Jammu.

Mark my word, far from escalation, I get the pessimistic feeling that ModiJi will find someway of cooling temperatures (maybe DGMO level talks or DovalJi and his counterpart talks somewhere else). And of course the same opposition traitors who themselves can't or will not advocate diddly squat except to surrender to TSP ('secularism' you see) will once again gang up on ModiJi using the 56" BS.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby brvarsh » 12 Feb 2018 07:01

If there is a leak in your tap no matter how many buckets you own it is not going to stop it but will eventually drain your energy in cleaning. Its as simple as that. If there is a quick buch to be made Kashmiri kids are turning to stone pelting. These kids are far better than the ones across the border. Think - how many would be ready to cross the border to kill and die for a few thousands to be paid to their breeders? By the time we home drug money and significant pressure on Pakistani economy builds up, we will get tired likely fail. On the other hand, if all the big deal attacks are targeted to kids women and old and families then our strategy might be actually working and all we need is some more perseverance. What ever it is but we need to make some strong decisions because the prior political steam seems running out.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Feb 2018 10:15

First thing if your neighbour is throwing stones, you cant every stone, one stone will hit and kill you. You need to kill your neighbour to survive first.

2nd whoever provided shelter or transport to these pigs must be eliminated along with thier family without media glare.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 12 Feb 2018 11:11

CRPF camp in Srinagar being attacked now.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ashish raval » 12 Feb 2018 12:14

Time for public execution of terrorist and it's sympathisers in the valley. Terror to be responded with terror.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Manish_P » 12 Feb 2018 12:35

Meanwhile the 'almost' forgotten refuse to forget..

A havan in memory of their ‘home’ that was once heavenly

Over 700 families of Kashmiri Pandits, staying in and around the city, came together for an annual ritual that makes them revisit their tradition, recollect the time they spent in Kashmir and stay together as a community


Militancy and violence drove them out of their homes in Kashmir around three decades ago, but till this day, they have remained true to their traditions, culture and rituals. And most importantly, stay united. Over 700 families of Kashmiri Pandits staying in and around Mumbai came together in the February 3-4 weekend to take part in an annual 24- hour havan and puja to revive old traditions, recall memories of their lost homes and remind the youngsters of their roots.


Neena Bamzai Kher, a Khar resident, said that every time the mantra swaaha is chanted and ghee poured in the havan kund, a familiar smell emanates. “That smell takes me back to Kashmir. In each and every house, there used to be a separate room where all the photos of deities were kept. We are trying to recreate that ambience here. This havan keeps our traditions alive and brings our community together,” Kher added.


“After the 1989 exodus, our children haven’t seen Kashmir. How will they know what Kashmir is all about if we don’t take efforts to teach them about our tradition and culture?” said Zutshi.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby brvarsh » 12 Feb 2018 13:15

I really do not want to make this conversation just to vent my anger, rather keep it objective but I seriously want these pigs when killed publicly fed to pigs instead given proper burial. Let them know what to expect and no way will go to jannat if some even come for the same. I also support the idea mentioned in one of the comments above to silently take everyone who gave them any material support and their family out.
I am sure the Army top brass are already busy planning what next steps should be, but it has to come fast.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby jaysimha » 12 Feb 2018 14:07

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=175671

Kishtwar in J&K to get full-fledged Airport: Dr Jitendra Singh
Ministry of Personnel, Public Grievances & Pensions
(16-January, 2018 19:26 IST )

Kishtwar in Jammu and Kashmir will soon get a full-fledged Airport facility with provision for Aircraft landing and taking off, for which, an upgraded Airstrip will accordingly be constructed adjacent to the Chaugan ground in the city.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nvishal » 12 Feb 2018 17:17

These militants are crossing into India through underground tunnels. That is the only way to explain these attacks. I don't think the GoI has the technology to scan the ground for tunnels.

These tunnels are probably deeper at the border area where the scanners usually concentrate but cannot reach them. If we cannot stop the inflow of weapons and grenades, the fight is hopeless.

It is possible that the Chinese are assisting the Pakistan is digging these tunnel networks.

More on ground penetrating radars. Depth of scan vs limitations.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/radar-bar ... perts-say/

A limitation of ground-penetrating radar is that even in ideal conditions, it only provides an accurate image from the surface up to a depth of about 15 meters. The known tunnel in Mexico are as much as 27 meters below ground.

In the DMZ between North and South Korea, four tunnels have been found from the north running as deep as 160 meters below ground The South Korean army – previously with guidance from the US Army Corps of Engineers – has on an ad hoc basis used cross-borehole ground-penetrating radar to look for tunnels as deep as 600 meters, according to an expert involved in the project who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak about it to reporters. The US Army and Defense Department declined to comment, citing security concerns.

The Pakistanis are being choosey. In muslim areas(kashmir), they attack the forces and offices of administration

While in Hindu areas(Jammu), they shell civilians houses.

Currently, we need two things:
1) A strategy to locate the tunnels
2) A hardware each to pin point the location of the incoming artillery and another hardware to drop guided munition on that location. The Americans have both of these which they use in Afghanistan.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2018 19:49

One thing they can look at is escalate in Siachen sector, blame it on Pakistan and then change the territorial status quo. Pak needs to loose more than it is currently. A few hundred dead jihadis is nothing for it.

Meanwhile Pak spokesman In India Mani Screwball Aiyar has asked for talks.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby A Deshmukh » 12 Feb 2018 20:26

They need to start loosing
- territory
- uniformed

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby RKumar » 12 Feb 2018 21:15

Pigs should be burned instead of bury to ensure that they get the message, we will not allow them to get their 72 before or after life. Hit where it hurt the most.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby RKumar » 12 Feb 2018 21:19

Btw ... peace didn't work for us during last 70 years. Now give GoI, 10 years to use force against napak.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Prithwiraj » 12 Feb 2018 21:25

I am pretty sure pakistan will launch more such attacks in coming days to influence the outcome ot 2019 election result which is obviously outster of Modi from seat of power. There can be other players including China involved in this as well. Seems pretty common these days to influence the outcome of election results of enemy states

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Shameek » 12 Feb 2018 21:37

RKumar wrote:Pigs should be burned instead of bury to ensure that they get the message, we will not allow them to get their 72 before or after life. Hit where it hurt the most.


This is easy to say but not to implement. There are multiple parties waiting for exactly something like this to make it a communal issue in India. (Look at how India treats Muslims etc.) The army is walking a very difficult tightrope situation. Then you have people like M A Lone shout pro Porkistan slogans in the Assembly and then tell the media that he is a Muslim first before being an Indian...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby AshishAcharya » 12 Feb 2018 21:40

We need to follow this approach in dealing with these pigs.
First - we need to remove article 35A.
Second - give massive land grants to armymen just like pakis are doing in gilgit baltistan.
Third - buy up properties and settle mainland Indians there so that they reduce the local population to a insignificant minority.
Fourth - give them voter ID cards and make sure they vote in the elections to the party which will remove article 370
Fifth - Then target the controllers of these pigs using drones. And kill those officers controlling the terrorists even if we have to cross LoC. Let's escalate the situation to that level. I am sure pakis will back down under immense Indian retaliation as their Chinese masters don't want a war (CPEC)
Sixth make sure all the money they pump into these groups dries up. And every terrorist is willing to work only for money. Even throwing stones isn't free. Thus No money no terrorist. (Btw NIA is doing this job I think.)
Seventh - remove article 370 after forming a majority in j&k assembly. ( Refer to point 4 )
Eighth - confiscate the properties of hurriyat pigs and put them in tihar jail under cooked up charges and take years to solve their cases and in granting them bail. Let them rot in jail.
Ninth - now to counter the deshdrohi media presstitutes, we can have a massive social media campaign funded secretly. Many Indians are wasting their time in trolling Bollywood stars. It's time for these media scumbags to feel the heat through our troll experts. With increasing population of internet users in India, any anti India pro separatist statement should be criticised, trolled, abused, disliked reported etc. by this social media regiment.
Tenth - if-you-mention-kashmir-forget-about-the-deal policy. Followed aggressively by China. With our rising economic status this should made possible.
Eleventh - stir up troubles in Pakistan. And surround them through Afghanistan. Let them live under our fear which they seem to have forgotten.
Here's a bonus - this is a example of what common Indians can do - https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.indi ... 2018-01-27

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/09 ... l.html?m=1

All of these will be a reality when someone decides enough is enough and decides to end this issue once and for all. If that doesn't happen, we will keep losing our men, women and children to these cowardly pigs.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby brvarsh » 12 Feb 2018 22:48

There is only one and one way to solve this mess - Do what is good for the country in short and long term and assimilate the state with the rest of India. Our problem is we take too many mouths together to try to keep all of them happy. No one has ever been able to take any territory away from a nuclear power. Time has come we realize this. If we need to clean the political slate then lets clean it. Our Kashmir policy is working. Choice of targets speaks by itself. There is a desperation in Pakistan and we have been successful in shifting the problem mass from Kashmir to across the border. Yes emotions often takes over us, often but we need to continue doing what we are doing. Weight has shifted, people would want us to talk to Pakistan but it will all be playing in their hands. No escape routes for Pakistan this time. Kill them and kill them good.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ashish raval » 13 Feb 2018 03:21

RKumar wrote:Btw ... peace didn't work for us during last 70 years. Now give GoI, 10 years to use force against napak.

Head of Masjid Azhar and hafiz should be appropriate homage to our boys.


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