Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

J&K News and Discussion - 2016

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5977
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 05 May 2017 07:14

Bart S wrote:
sreerudra wrote:http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-jammu-and-kashmir-one-civilian-killed-as-terrorists-attack-army-convoy-in-shopian-2427803

Looks like the operation is successful with reminiscents driven out of the area tried their last attempt.


No terrorists were arrested or killed in the 'massive search operation' so a bit of a damp squib really. Hope they are flushed out and exposed in other areas though, if they managed to escape.


Absolutely. The pigLeTs wouldn't have entered if they didn't have someone taking care of them. Most likely, they are in some hamlet kept warm and happy by their KM guests, ready, to strike at an opportune moment. They guys are one heck of a motivated, fanatic bunch of scum bags. What level of brainwashing will lead to some waste their lives like this.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10194
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 05 May 2017 07:29

The piglets are fooled by the brainwashers, that they being pure and with AK-47, and grenades are 400 times superior to the fearful, cowering hindu soldier.
They are told about their martial strength and how they will easily win.
Only as a sideline these piglets are told, that, by chance, you are killed, you will get 72 hoors.

The piglets in J&K are hoping to get back alive back to POK.
If they were wanting their 72, they would be soosai bummers. None of them are soosai bummers, they are fooled by lectures of Masli and their invincibility into doing this.
Also, most have psych problems or criminal personality to begin with.

Nothing too great

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1470
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sid » 05 May 2017 08:01

Not only this, but influence/power of social media to sway public opinion in any direction based on dedicated media campaigns should be studied and monitored. If western governments can fall due to this, J&K is nothing. People there were already peaked, and only required a push.

Rumors and fake news is always in circulation there, with PTV and radio from across the border being more accessible then AIR or DD.

If I subject a regular bloke from Delhi to such sustained media campaign for 2-3 years, even he will be ready to wear a vest.

What we need to do is to cut this propaganda media network in J&K. Create a sustained and powerful campaign for a long duration, screw all local programming. Media cells should engage people on Facebook/WhatsApp.

Muscle power is just half the equation in solving this problem.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10194
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 05 May 2017 08:10

Send in spies into mosques, pay people money to record conversations, and then deal with these people.
If enough mid level instigators in the valley are caught, the back of the movement will break.

madhu
BRFite
Posts: 164
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 17:00
Location: India

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby madhu » 05 May 2017 10:20

I am still not understanding what is the big game plan from India and Pakistan?
Somehow I feel unrest in Kashmir and well as internal parts of India is planned not by pakis but by china. The offensive defense is not doing a lot. This has pushed the pakis to adopt more offensive version. The whole CEPC agreement of Pakis is just to secure POK and Baluchistan then economical improvement.
I think we need to get out of Gandhi-Nehru era ideas of non-alignment, no first use, no we will not attack any one. Show other cheek if some one hits on one cheek… we need to get into plans like 2 eyes for 1 eye. This will not make whole world blind.
Why are we not using the same game plan that pak uses on us? Why we cant create non-state actors in India who will attack separatist and kill them? Why we cant have our own terrorist group who will attack KMs who are anti-Indian? Why we cant print fake paki notes and flood them into paki for free to collapse their economy?
Enough of being good. Teach the B**** in the same coin.

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 635
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 05 May 2017 12:02

I just read this nonsense on the Rediff main page, with 'Indians' like this who needs Pakistan:
http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/wh ... 170505.htm
:evil:

Who is this Sreejith Karanavar? Sounds like a 'comrade' from Kerala fishing in troubled waters.

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 635
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 05 May 2017 12:13

Gagan wrote:The piglets are fooled by the brainwashers, that they being pure and with AK-47, and grenades are 400 times superior to the fearful, cowering hindu soldier.
They are told about their martial strength and how they will easily win.
Only as a sideline these piglets are told, that, by chance, you are killed, you will get 72 hoors.

The piglets in J&K are hoping to get back alive back to POK.
If they were wanting their 72, they would be soosai bummers. None of them are soosai bummers, they are fooled by lectures of Masli and their invincibility into doing this.
Also, most have psych problems or criminal personality to begin with.

Nothing too great



They are also on drugs, especially the hardcore ones who attack army camps etc.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 857
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 05 May 2017 12:35

The Indian state should send wave after wave of bus loads of "tourists" of certain organisations in gerua clothes from all over the country to visit the valley. It can be referred to as KarTour-seva :twisted: :twisted:

Marten
BRFite
Posts: 1743
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Marten » 05 May 2017 12:39

Thakur_B wrote:The Indian state should send wave after wave of bus loads of "tourists" of certain organisations in gerua clothes from all over the country to visit the valley. It can be referred to as KarTour-seva :twisted: :twisted:

Do you see any way for a new township to be established where retired soldiers and Pandits can reside? I mean not these piddly refugee camps, but 300 acre self contained campuses all over the Valley with adequate security (yes, I mean fortified as hell). Would there be enough takers if the houses are provided on cheap 30 year leases instead of ownership basis?

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1819
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SRoy » 05 May 2017 14:46

A longish post alert.

Kashmir has undergone a sort of irreversible change. A common Kashmiri Muslim has radicalized to the extent that they no longer have any emotional connect with anything non-Islamic.

As a kid during 80s, when dad was posted at AFS SriNagar, we used to freely wander into Kashmiri villages. Those days one could obtain a fishing permit from the Fisheries department for 40 Rs. and then just settle beside any brook and spring which were numerous in summers.
Dad being in a SAM squadron, afternoons were off. So, imagine a summer afternoon (sun visible till 8 ), cycle into a village orchard beside a small spring and try for some good catch. The Kashmiri villagers were different then, they would come to have chat with us, ask about life in other parts in India, invite us for tea and for a half a pack of cigarettes we used to get a whole crate of best quality apples.

BSF used to be feared then very much. They had a free hand. Public beatings of Azadi types were common. Saw so many times, BSF trooper getting hold of these scums by their collars and then set upon them with belts.

Forward to late 90s, when I was in outskirts of SriNagar. Common people were not so warm as earlier, at the best indifferent. The "militants" were largely veterans of Afghan war. The "local militants" were a joke. These "local militants" used to soil their pants at mere mention of being turned over to BSF for interrogation.

But things at present are different. There is a local component to militancy that was not there earlier. Propaganda and funding by Islamic block has made this possible. This has compromised the J&K police to a good extent. Second problem is that security forces from hinterland (BSF, CRPF, Army) have no freedom as they had earlier.

Finally something for the security forces. "Winning heart and mind" initiatives as tried by some Army commanders is pure bullshit. That is not possible. Please ask someone who has been there for considerable amount of time. Ask Kashmiri pandits.
Security forces believe that they are dealing with law and order issues or at the best territorial conflict. However, the enemy sees this as Jihad, civilization war. This distinction is lost upon govt. and the military leadership (steeped too much in secular ethos). So we are going to loose more lives.

Discussion over article 370 is funny. As if our enemies are bothered with legalities or internationally accepted borders.

So, the only solution is overturn article 370.
As for stone pelters, don't kill them yet. Shoot at them below the hips to cripple them for life.
For holed up militants, don't waste lives of soldiers and precious ammunition. Deploy flamethrowers.

Kill them psychologically. For ordinary Kashmiri Muslim the life of a cripple and for Jihadis death by fire.
Last edited by SRoy on 05 May 2017 21:17, edited 1 time in total.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1370
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby vasu raya » 05 May 2017 18:20

Virtual Private Network (VPN) has turned out to be the ultimate tool for the youth to access blocked websites


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kashmir-internet-ban-information-technology-law-virtual-private-network/1/946156.html

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9349
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 05 May 2017 20:59

Kashmir has undergone a sort of irreversible change. A common Kashmiri Muslim has radicalized to the extent that they no longer have any emotional connect with anything non-Islamic.

+400%

It seems easy to say that shoot couple of folks or just brutally trample everyone and suspend all basic things like mobile, Internet etc as a collective punishment till the KMs come to their senses but i really dont see it being anything more than bandaid since it seems the KMs have gone past point of no return and it's no longer a question of basic common sense being used by them but just blind Islamic fervour.

We should have tried the 370 stuff and demographic change stuff years back but horse has bolted now.

Heck, even the PRC has been unable to subdue their muslim region despite doing everything and more that BRF recommends to be applied in J&K and having zero external factors stoking that region so really cant see how we can salvage the situation in the valley

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1819
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SRoy » 05 May 2017 21:20

Kashmir now is a war of attrition.

We can bleed the infantry, given our surplus manpower.

Or we can go full fledged and shorten the agony for all sides.

Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4982
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Falijee » 05 May 2017 21:55

Pakistani, Saudi channels beam into Kashmiri homes, stoke 'azadi' rage

SRINAGAR: Saudi clerics and Pakistani news anchors are being beamed direct to Kashmiri homes, and are stoking the fires of 'azadi'. Over 50 Saudi and Pakistani channels, including Zakir Naik's banned Peace TV preaching Salafist Islam, and others indulging in anti-India propaganda are running without necessary clearances via private cable networks in Kashmir.All this is happening under the nose of the PDP-BJP government, which even subscribes to these cable services in some of its offices and buildings.Although satellite television service providers like Tata Sky , Airtel digital TV and Dish TV , are available in Kashmir, most people subscribe to private cable. A cable operator, who did not want to be named, said that there are over 50,000 private cable connections in Srinagar alone, and only because these broadcast Pakistani and Saudi channels.
No cable operator, any where in the country, including in Jammu & Kashmir, can run any channel other than the ones approved by the Union I&B ministry . If it is not in the permitted list of channels on the ministry website, it is being illegally broadcast.
Some of the Saudi channels broadcast the same kind of rigid, fundamentalist and patriarchal interpretations of Islam and Sharia that invited a government ban on Peace TV .Wahhabi clerics on these channels often sermonise that women should surrender before their husbands and obey their commands completely .
For example, a woman should not step out of the house without the permission of her husband, a cleric preached on Saudi Sunnah.Most Pakistani news channels refer to the terrorists of Hizbul Mujahideen, Lashkare-Taiba and other groups as "martyrs" and counter-insurgency operations in Kashmir as "human rights violations".
Saudi channels are one of the biggest media of propounding the Salafist version of Islam in the Valley , Shahid, an Islamic scholar in Anantnag, said. "It is radicalising youth and adding fuel to the violent separatist movement that is being mobilised by invoking Islam. Central Govt needs to take action!

dinesh_kimar
BRFite
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby dinesh_kimar » 05 May 2017 23:16

^ Sroy and sum:
This local apathy, indifference and rage against "outsiders" is nothing new. Such hostility and radicalization was seen in Punjab in the 1980s. In fact, the Sikhs were better fighters than the Kashmiris, highly skilled and fierce, and better organized and equipped (they had factories for Ak 47s and RPGs,so no stone pelting).
Yet , Punjab was successfully brought back into the fold.

Regarding J&K, there are thousands of people on the job to get Kashmir back, as part of a multi pronged strategy. This includes the Indian Army. And the Army of today is superior to the force of the 80s and 90s. I remember news articles from the 1990s, about US Airborne divisions war gaming to "liberate" Kashmir in a surgical strike.

These news articles magically stopped within a decade ,because:

1. We went nuclear. (The US is morally obliged not to attack a fellow nuclear power, as a matter of principle)
2. Our Economy took off. (US Economy gets a billion more consumers, so dont upset the apple cart)
3. Other factors such as the Indian Army's winning performance in the Kargil War also weighed in (fighting a well entrenched enemy in elevated heights , which US Army Military manuals state as "impossible to capture". The IA fought with torn shoes, wooden coffins, INSAS Rifles and 200 cannibalized BOFORS guns and no Weapon Locating Radars. )
4. I think we are needlessly comparing the PLO's intifada with the Kashmir situation.

Why you worry?

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1819
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SRoy » 05 May 2017 23:19

Punjab and Kashmir are different, because Sikhs and Muslims are different.

No one is worrying. Kashmir is not going anywhere.

Just wondering what the endgame is.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 857
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 05 May 2017 23:55



Well a few IB wallahs should go knocking on the door of the cable/MSO broadcast centre and play the lessons of Sunny Leone in place of Sunnah :twisted: :twisted:

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2869
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 06 May 2017 00:16

SRoy wrote:Kashmir now is a war of attrition.

We can bleed the infantry, given our surplus manpower.

Or we can go full fledged and shorten the agony for all sides.


We'd have to resort to the later, sooner or later.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10194
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 06 May 2017 00:20

SRoy wrote:Punjab and Kashmir are different, because Sikhs and Muslims are different.

No one is worrying. Kashmir is not going anywhere.

Just wondering what the endgame is.

I totally agree.
There is no endgame, this will go on and on.
Pakistan might never break up, islamism is here to stay too.

India will not abrogate 370, or win the demographic battle in J&K, and so india's soldiers will continue to bleed. It will go on for the forseeable future.

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 954
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sudeepj » 06 May 2017 02:00

SRoy wrote:Punjab and Kashmir are different, because Sikhs and Muslims are different.

No one is worrying. Kashmir is not going anywhere.

Just wondering what the endgame is.


Its going to get worse before it gets better. The latest round of taqleef is simply because a party with a Jammu base is an equal partner. Pakistan as usual is trying to poke its nose in. Without reducing Pakistan, resolving Kashmir satisfactorily is going to be extremely difficult. The only solution I can think of is a Sudetenland model, where people who feel attracted towards a certain norm are moved to that be with others of their kind.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 306
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 May 2017 02:21

Thakur_B wrote:


Well a few IB wallahs should go knocking on the door of the cable/MSO broadcast centre and play the lessons of Sunny Leone in place of Sunnah :twisted: :twisted:

No thats very dangerous, it will induce abduls to bring more abduls to this earth to '72

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4830
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ShauryaT » 06 May 2017 02:27

Some serious infusion of steel needed. Follow this maxim to start with.

Never give up or partition your land
Never let two nation theory win

Understand the depressed and dejected feelings, however cannot give up. There are no "solutions" in our life times. This problem has been created over 1400 years. The only question to ask is, what can this generation do to try and heal the divisions. Let us focus on one thing at a time. Repeal article 370.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 199
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nam » 06 May 2017 02:40

There was an article by a Paki author on why India is able to control insurgency in Kashmir. It's observation was that India is able to build the "go to/ trust point" for people's need .
There was an story about a kashmiri woman come to a police head and asked for compensation for her killed husband/relative. This opened up the avenues where lot others who had lost kins to claim for compensation, thereby providing a local "go to" trust.

The recent actions by the terrorists seem to be to hit at this convenience. Burning schools, looting banks etc. Fundamentally trying to hit at the ecosystem which supports the day to day life. In the coming months, I can see all the jihadis and their supports in Lyutens will try to hit at this ecosystem.

ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1056
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ashish raval » 06 May 2017 03:40

Never give up or partition your land
Never let two nation theory win


Agree. How many Shia do we have in Kashmir? Can those mosques be encouraged to blast national message? Alternatively GoI should pass ordinance to monitor all mosques of the valley, stop outside funding and divide state into three parts. It will then be easy to deal with scums and snipers and periodic castrigation should be carried out with scums unable to reproduce ever. :shock:

kittoo
BRFite
Posts: 861
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 02:08

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby kittoo » 06 May 2017 03:54

SRoy wrote:A longish post alert.

Finally something for the security forces. "Winning heart and mind" initiatives as tried by some Army commanders is pure bullshit. That is not possible. Please ask someone who has been there for considerable amount of time. Ask Kashmiri pandits.
Security forces believe that they are dealing with law and order issues or at the best territorial conflict. However, the enemy sees this as Jihad, civilization war. This distinction is lost upon govt. and the military leadership (steeped too much in secular ethos). So we are going to loose more lives.



Someone posted this point on Quora and I found it extremely enlightening- All this winning hearts and minds has done is that it has removed the fear of Army from the hearts of Kashmiris. Earlier they used to soil pants, now all they see is their slaves who help them in every need. And thats why this stone pelting and all is on such business. They have no fear of army anymore.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46660
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 06 May 2017 04:21

Winning hearts and minds campaign was first devised by Gen Sir Gerald Templar in Malaya to put down the Communist rebellion.
This became template for counter insurgency campaigns all over world.
Templar relocated the villagers and gradually cut off ties to terrorists. He also put very high dead or alive rewards.

India needs to cut off the PAK sanctuary for terrorists.

Rampy
BRFite
Posts: 256
Joined: 25 Mar 2003 12:31
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rampy » 06 May 2017 04:56

I think we are missing a point here, my 2 cents - . If we go back to history of Chandragupta in able guidance of Chanakya and his son conquered 70% of india and they had Kalinga as a pain in the A$$ but they left them alone, then came Ashoka who some how was obsessed by Kalinga and rest is history . A great kingdom died within 100 yrs. Kashmir for Modi is Kalinga yes its pain in backside but if he diverts his attention he will loose the mainland
Kashmir will be dealt but not now, its has to be managed till he consolidates mainland i.e., KA, WB, KR, OR, etc. and then winter will come to Kashmir

rsangram
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 20 Sep 2016 17:54

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby rsangram » 06 May 2017 05:31

Rampy wrote:I think we are missing a point here, my 2 cents - . If we go back to history of Chandragupta in able guidance of Chanakya and his son conquered 70% of india and they had Kalinga as a pain in the A$$ but they left them alone, then came Ashoka who some how was obsessed by Kalinga and rest is history . A great kingdom died within 100 yrs. Kashmir for Modi is Kalinga yes its pain in backside but if he diverts his attention he will loose the mainland
Kashmir will be dealt but not now, its has to be managed till he consolidates mainland i.e., KA, WB, KR, OR, etc. and then winter will come to Kashmir


Yes Rampy. Wait for mainland consolidation, which of course has to wait for "10% growth", which of course has to wait on something else which depends on something else, and of course you have to wait for that something else.

We guys, Rampy, are past masters at finding excuses to kick the can down the road. Let us kick the can down the road. That is what Jawaharlal did. Why blame Jawaharlal ? Scratch the surface and all of us Indians are like that......we have the same natural temperament.....picking up fights with the weak and dont forget pick up fights "within", big time within.......and be argumentative Indians, avoid conflict with the strong or even not stronger than us, but tough, talk, talk, talk talk and talk and kick the can down the street, and while we are at it, pontificate to the US and the West on how to improve their economies....how to behave. That is our character.......wait....and all will be well. Wait, it is Chankyan to do nothing right now.......let us have 10% growth year after year and the problem will be solved by itself. tha jihadis will be so shaken up by our 10% growth, that they will kameez shiver, wet their salwars and cry "Om".

Yes, yes, Rampy.......kick that can down the road.....kick hard.....way down the road....let us all kick the can down the road.....better yet, let us have a festival of kicking the can down the road.........block all the roads.......stop all the traffic......blast those loudspeakers with "O mere watan ke logon".......crowd the roads with cutouts of local politicians........and perform the ritual........kick the can down the road....Rampy

rsangram
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 20 Sep 2016 17:54

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby rsangram » 06 May 2017 05:51

Watch this video.......Kashmiri scum terrorists torturing JK special policemen.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CosaDBm0Cp8

and of course, let us kick the can down the road....

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9349
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 06 May 2017 08:51

This local apathy, indifference and rage against "outsiders" is nothing new. Such hostility and radicalization was seen in Punjab in the 1980s. In fact, the Sikhs were better fighters than the Kashmiris, highly skilled and fierce, and better organized and equipped (they had factories for Ak 47s and RPGs,so no stone pelting).
Yet , Punjab was successfully brought back into the fold.

Sirji, you are right but as SRoy-ji mentioned, there is 0% comparision between the Sikhs and the KMs since the Sikhs still have some amount of attachment to the country and Dharmic fold if shown the right path but same doesnt apply to KMs. Also, the outliers were genuinely minority in Sikh community but in KM case, 99% are the same in hostility whereas the outliers might be the one neutral or favourable to India/Hindus/Kaffirs/whatever

Heck, the way things are, some of the Kerala Ms and IMs i have encountered from other states are even more Paki than Pakis themselves and there is nothing which will make them see the light. So, the KMs are in a different league.

The worry is not about Kashmir being with us ( which it will be ) but how long this cycle will continue since the people of the valley are lost to us forever ( they might do Taqqiyya from time to time if shown the boot) and how long will brute force keep working while we loose good folks in the 1 or 2 numbers per day

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1819
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SRoy » 06 May 2017 10:06

ramana wrote:Winning hearts and minds campaign was first devised by Gen Sir Gerald Templar in Malaya to put down the Communist rebellion.
This became template for counter insurgency campaigns all over world.
Templar relocated the villagers and gradually cut off ties to terrorists. He also put very high dead or alive rewards.

India needs to cut off the PAK sanctuary for terrorists.

Rebellions and civil war are easier to deal with for a reason. The split is right down through families. The fellow on the other side of the line may be your own brother. People see futility of bloodshed sooner or later.

Jihad is altogether different. Though you know better than many of us here, but I guess all of us lose sight of the larger picture once in a while.

We keep on equating Jihad with insurgency. This is a mistake.
Ask any Muslim. Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and maybe their own nukkad. They see all these as numerous fronts of a same war.

Cutting off Pak. sanctuary is useful, it will provide us instant results. But Islamism is a latent virus, once radicalized an ordinary Muslim cannot be reformed. And that will cause periodic outbreak.

What about cutting off central govt. own funding to the state before we blame outsiders? These parasites get everything on preferential rates compared to rest of India. Starve them for one winter.
Last edited by SRoy on 06 May 2017 10:17, edited 1 time in total.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2687
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rudradev » 06 May 2017 10:15

Rampy wrote:I think we are missing a point here, my 2 cents - . If we go back to history of Chandragupta in able guidance of Chanakya and his son conquered 70% of india and they had Kalinga as a pain in the A$$ but they left them alone, then came Ashoka who some how was obsessed by Kalinga and rest is history . A great kingdom died within 100 yrs. Kashmir for Modi is Kalinga yes its pain in backside but if he diverts his attention he will loose the mainland
Kashmir will be dealt but not now, its has to be managed till he consolidates mainland i.e., KA, WB, KR, OR, etc. and then winter will come to Kashmir


Agreed. We cannot let this scum hijack the national agenda. Kashmir valley has to be squeezed, slowly, relentlessly, until it is completely devoid of oxygen and light. That doesn't need to happen in the full glare of public view, or at the expense of what any sensible person would recognize as greater priorities for the nation as a whole.

Giving these swine that much importance as to dominate the national agenda merely fulfills Manmohan Singh's promise that a Certain Community has "first right" to the nation's resources.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46660
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 06 May 2017 12:12

SROY you need to solve what you can easily.
Isolating terror in Kashmir to Pak is top priority.

BTW more CRPF being sent to Kashmir.

Hope with pellet guns.

manjgu
BRFite
Posts: 1258
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 06 May 2017 13:03

once a old wag told me..kashmiri is like a rice plant..bends in the way the wind is blowing. the indian danda is not swinging enough...and there is fear of paki danda. One poster said somewhere..go into mosque to listen secretly whats going on...no need they blare the anti india message over loudspeakers !! blood will have to flow...and they should open one "azadi gate.." ..free passage to pakistan.

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 522
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Deans » 06 May 2017 15:47

ramana wrote:SROY you need to solve what you can easily.
Isolating terror in Kashmir to Pak is top priority.

BTW more CRPF being sent to Kashmir.

Hope with pellet guns.


Not with pellet guns. With real guns,I hope.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8923
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Hari Seldon » 06 May 2017 18:04

Chankian spin on so called 'Doval doctrine' in J&K.

Doval's muscle policy: If it worked in Punjab, it would in Kashmir also

Found it less than convincing, somehow.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1370
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby vasu raya » 06 May 2017 20:51

Hopefully when the IA is sweeping the countryside for terrorists, they are doing identity checks taking mugshots as well as fingerprints, even relation mapping else somebody could hide their weapons and merge into the crowd.

maybe one can couch it as free facebook drive...
Last edited by vasu raya on 06 May 2017 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 364
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby V_Raman » 06 May 2017 21:09

IMO all this drama is to make GOI go back on pandit relocation and maybe article 370.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20990
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SSridhar » 07 May 2017 08:28

Secret intel papers show how ISI funds Hurriyat: Times Now - ToI
It's a secret that was always spoken in whispers: Hurriyat is on Pakistan's payrolls. Times Now has irrefutable proof of cash paid in Indian currency to top Hurriyat leader Shabir Shah, and to specific individuals at the Hurriyat office in Srinagar.

Secret intel documents that Times Now has accessed say the payment was made to fund those involved in anti-India activities through a known ISI conduit named Mehboob Ahmed Sagar. He also has a well-established connection with Pakistan's high commissioner to India, Abdul Basit.

Sagar was paid by ISI on a monthly basis and he, in turn, funnelled the cash to Shabir Shah, founder and president of the Jammu and Kashmir Democratic Freedom Party. Shah claimed he was paying families of terrorists who were killed in action and to stone-pelters.


One of the annexures of the top secret intel document has proof that cash was channelled to multiple individuals in the Hurriyat office in Srinagar. This is direct proof of a link between funds sent by Pakistan's ISI and Hurriyat.

The "register of treachery" lists out names of Hurriyat men and the money they took under various heads.

The payments made are only for one month, essentially meaning that there is a fixed salary paid to many and that there is a monthly contribution made for Hurriyat's day-to-day expenses.

These are the questions that Hurriyat should answer: Why is ISI funding purchase of computers at Hurriyat office? What are these payments made to Kot Bhalwal and Jammu jails?

Meanwhile, it is reliably learnt that the Prime Minister's Office has taken cognisance of the transaction and will shortly be taking action to shut the tap on Pak terror funding via Hurriyat.


In February 2003, the then Pakistani High Commissioner in India, Jalil Abbas Jilani was issued persona non grata and expelled by GoI for funding Hurriyat leaders. I hope GoI does the same to Basit now and simultaneously recalls our HC in Islamabad. Action must happen quickly. Let us downgrade diplomatic representation as a prelude to cutting-off contacts with that terrorist nation.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6690
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby JE Menon » 07 May 2017 10:34

>>Just wondering what the endgame is.

This is the endgame. This is the war. Ignore the news headlines. Here's an exercise. Just don't read anything about J&K for two weeks. There will be peace in J&K.

As for the Sunni Muslims of "the valley", fortunately for us the Pakistanis have been successful in persuading them that the Chinese are now in full support mode - which the Chinese have themselves suggested with some strategically placed quotes (that's cheaper). What does one say to this, but "thank you". This is the part where the whore of many paymasters begins to get too many customers at the door. Sooner rather than later, she will have to turn all except one (or two) down. I suspect those two are eventually going to be Allah and America (the devils she knows well), if you get my drift. Both will not pay her only in part. Again.

Meanwhile, we need more Islam in the valley.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Atmavik, Baidu [Spider], Chinmay, chola, Jayan Menon, L Ram and 50 guests