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J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Falijee » 07 May 2017 18:44

J&K govt asks dy commissioners to act against 34 channels

The State Home Department, which is headed by Chief Minister Mehbooba Mufti, has listed 34 such channels belonging to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia including Zakir Naik’s banned Peace TV.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 07 May 2017 19:07

>>Just wondering what the endgame is.



There is no end game per se. India is the status quo power, while Pakis and valley Muslims who believe they are Moghul inheritors want a change in status quo. Everything else is hot air. And by far the biggest daylight fraud taking place right in front of our eyes is that what is happening in Kashmir valley aided and abetted by TSP is fight for "self determination", "mis-management by India" and a 1000 other reasons all putting the onus at India's door step, when the one and only one truth and the elephant in the room is: Islamic fascism. So the end game if one wants to call it that is India realizing this self evident truth and acting accordingly.
Last edited by CRamS on 07 May 2017 20:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby JE Menon » 07 May 2017 20:24

^^above quote is not mine...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 07 May 2017 21:05

and to know that all of these KM;s were dharmic hindus ... the toxicity of islam is mind blowing. farooqs abdullahs grandfather was a hindu IMHO.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SRoy » 07 May 2017 21:32

KM themselves are unfortunate victims of the social order, upheld by Kashmiri Pandits, that prevented their re-entry back in to Hinduism.

Kashmiri Pandit behavior and its aftermath is warning example for self appointed gatekeepers of Hinduism throughout rest of India.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 07 May 2017 21:34

SRoy wrote:
Kashmiri Pandit behavior and its aftermath is warning example for self appointed gatekeepers of Hinduism throughout rest of India.


Too terse for my edification, can you please elaborate?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 07 May 2017 21:57

To the lexicon of phrases with hidden meanings, I am adding two that are bandied about these days but never articulated overtly by their ardent users:

1. "Initiate political process in valley". Hidden meaning: India bend down on its knees and give Harried rates and other TSP proxies aka KM fascists what they want.

Truth: Holding of election against all odds, instituting a democratically elected govt representative of the will of people across the state (BJP/PDP coalition) with agenda of governance is the ultimate, most pristine form of political process invented by man. India's conduct and statesmanship in J&K is a shining example of that principle.

2. "BJP govt has no TSP strategy". Hidden meaning: India bend down on its knees and beg TSP for peace, allow all and sundry Pakis to come to India, play kirket, Bollywood, and other unfettered pee-pee contact.

Truth: Be it inviting Gaanja for ModiJi's swearing in, or ModiJi holding hands with Gaanja in Lawhore or any other attempts, as also the Doval doctrine of offensive defense, India's attempt to isolate TSP etc, BJP does have a strategy. It has failed no doubt, and if persisted with, may take some time to succeed.

Hidden meaning of 1 and 2 combined in the context of Kashmir: Give Kashmir valley complete pre-1953 autonomy aka quasi independence and to keep TSP happy give them say in the valley (recall MMS/MushRat talks on "joint mechanisms" on "both sides of the LoC").

Overall hidden meaning of 1 and 2 combined in the context of "South Asia" and colonial powers: Most "South Asians" want such a recipe for brotherhood and will happily live ever after playing kirket and watching Bollywood and consuming pizza & coke except for "Hindu extremists".

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Falijee » 07 May 2017 23:53

Kashmir, stop being delusional
VIKRAM SOOD

Let us start with a few clarifications. There is no freedom struggle in Kashmir, but a war foisted on us all these years with ground rules laid down by the Pakistan Army. These ground rules, therefore, must change, where we are no longer reactive but be in charge, literally. This should start with an escalatory response. There is little point in our having our High Commissioner in Pakistan or theirs here when there is no substance in the relationship. At least, their High Commissioner gets prime time on TV and is lionised all over the country. Downgrading would be the first signal.
The MFN status should be withdrawn. There is hardly any trade, let it remain negligible or less. There is no need to offer electric power for onions. This may not amount to much, but, currently, the optics about this are askew.
Many years have elapsed since India and Pakistan signed the Indus Waters Treaty and the time has come to reconsider this to better suit Indian interests and present conditions.
Finally, we should do all this not just out of a sulk but based on political realism which means accepting that Pakistan and India have very little in common with each other and it is best to part ways. (Pakistan Goodbye and Good Luck, Anand Ranganathan). Pakistan has "hitched" its wagon to the new sugar daddy (China ) and also considers itself part of Central Asia and not South Asia. India should give residency to Baloch leaders living abroad and consider recognizing their govt in exile .
Let us also stop being delusional about the nature of the rulers of Pakistan — their Army. Its attitude does not change with the change at the top. Numero Uno is answerable to his all-powerful Khaki Cabal of Corps Commanders. There has been a consistency in this from the beginning. They have also had scant regard for their own elected representatives and make this disdain obvious. They cannot be expected to treat India — both enemy and Hindu, any better. So, those of us who dream of eternal peace would do well to wake up to this eternal reality.
The recent bloody attack in the Krishan Ghati in Poonch was not by a professional army. It would be an insult to the animal kingdom to call this an act of bestiality. It was an act by an army that has now imbibed the values — if one can call them that — of the Islamic State where intolerance in extreme is practised. Kill the enemy with extreme brutality and hatred. Ensure that there is no possibility of a reconciliation.
The British, with their imperial interests still paramount, were smart. They quickly arranged for Gilgit and Baltistan to revolt and claim to join Pakistan. They presumed they needed this to deal with the Soviet bear in the future.
Each time, when some peace and order was restored by the armed forces and paramilitaries after great difficulty and loss of life and property, the politicians failed to take advantage of the reprieve and the gains were dissipated through petty politicking. Each political party only thought of political power for itself and preserving its political patch.
Is there a solution? There has to be and we have to find that by talking with the people of Kashmir.There are three aspects to be considered. In the short term, the effort must be to restore peace, law and order and normalcy of life. This has to be done by the Army and paramilitary without the usual caveats we tend to attach to such activity. The armed forces need to be trusted to do their best. Keep media and its scaremongers out.
In the medium term, the ministries of defence and home need to improve systems, cut through red tapes and provide state-of-the-art equipment to the soldiers. Determination and deployment of adequate force levels should be left to the commanders. All infrastructure development activity should continue.
We should also go ahead with all permissible river and power projects. Each time Pakistan objects to such legitimate schemes, it shows itself up as a country that is not concerned with the well-being of the average Kashmiri. Pakistan only wants the land and the rivers that irrigate their farms in the Punjab province. The Kashmiris fate will be like that of the Baloch or Sindhi or Pashtun
In the long term, the Prime Minister must lead in helping to find a solution through talks with all Kashmiris. These talks could include Hurriyat representatives but cannot be exclusively Hurriyat nor Hurriyat-led.
the allegation that the ‘surrendered’ TTP leader Ehsanullah Ehsan was an India-supported terrorist, in his clumsily tutored interview, were indicators of what was being planned by the new leadership in Rawalpindi. Even the aam paki does not believe that Ehsan was "supported" by India !
Recently, a major general of the Pakistan Army publicly rebuked the office of the Prime Minister of Pakistan; something similar in India is unthinkable. Therein lies the difference between the two countries.
Pakistan and Kashmir thus have to be tackled separately. Pakistan will simply not let peace be restored; it has no reason to help India because it finds the present situation to its advantage. An adversarial stance with India suits the Pakistan army; it keeps the rest of the world concerned about the nuclear dimensions of this problem which it seeks to exaggerate periodically.
Kashmiris must be encouraged to understand that their merger with Pakistan or independence are just not going to happen. Surely, Kashmiris already know there can be no future in a country where the Baloch and Sindhis want independence and the Pushtun are increasingly suspicious of the Punjabi dominance in Pakistan. Pakistan, as usual is playing the "Islam in danger" card in Kashmir !
China and the United States protect Pakistan for their own strategic reasons. Pakistan’s continued belligerence has been because of the support it received from these countries for other reasons. Pakistan serves as a proxy for China, in its dispute with India ; the US knows that peace is not possible in Afghanistan without Pakistan. And it also needs Pakistan for land access to Afghanistan !
Ultimately, we will have to endgame and hit where it hurts the Pakistan army and elite at a time and place of our choosing. And do not worry about the nuclear threat that Pakistan keeps talking about and the West keeps echoing.
Do not also worry too much. Pakistan generals may be adventurous and Islamic but they are not daft. They are not going to start a nuclear war for some territory about the size of all their farms in the fertile Indus basin and Okara farms with a Muslim population smaller than that in Balochistan whom they subjugate ruthlessly. The generals are also not looking at losing all of Pakistan in a mushroom cloud.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 08 May 2017 00:53

Vikram Sood's and others' prescription to revoke Indus treaty and recognizing Baluchistan sound good in theory, but must be gamed carefully to understand how TSP and its 3.5 and its 5th column in India will respond and nature of the escalation must be controlled by India.

For e.g., ModiJi invoked Baluchistan in his independence day address, and then went silent. At least nothing overt. Even Balunchis must be upset at not following through. Note Tarek Fateh has also been silent of late, perhaps dejected (my speculation) at the KLPD post ModiJi's independence day gambit. Likewise, one surgical strike, lots of hype and then back to normal. None of this is going to scare TSP. In fact, they have more than avenged the surgical strike and are laughing after so many other attacks culminating in the mutilation and be-heading of our soldiers.

Thus, as Vikram Sood recommends, if India ups the ante on Baluchistan, TSP will respond by recognizing Arunachal Pradesh or some other state in India. Now if at that point the elected representatives in Arunachal pradesh, along with rest of India come out and rubbish TSP's stunt, but India continues with its Baluchi recognition and DDM shows TSP atrocities, it will be good. Of course, TSP will respond with "Indian atrocities" in Kashmir valley, "atrocities" against Daleets, tribals, gau rakshaks etc. White Pakis in their rags will follow with their equal equal, while traitors like Adhothi, Pankaj Misra , Tavleen Singh's half Paki son etc will do the "Hindu extremism angle" in white rags like NYT.

Now all of this can be gamed, but if BJP can stay the course, it will be awesome. But if we are back to the eunuch spectacle of ModiJi huffing and puffing and then going to LaWhore and holding Gannga's hand, everything will be frittered away, and TSP along with its 3.5 will laughing their arses off to the bank.

Likewise, Indus water treaty. I am not an expert, but according to the erudite Brahma Chellaney (whose book I need to read in totality), there are provisions in the treaty for India to use more water than it is currently allotted. TSP will of course squirm, and its 3.5 will demonize "Hindus extremist" led BJP govt for depriving water to TSP, its an act of war, nuke flash-point yada yada. Then at that point, when the bar has been set so high, India can then say, if you (meaning white Pakis) are so concerned about nuke flash-point, here are a list of demands from India, chief of them being complete stoppage of TSP terror and instigating violence in the valley for a period of at least 2+ years and then talks on restoring status quo ante etc etc (and India can do an equal equal of its own and will be on firm ground: TSP sponsored pigLeTs == Al Queda, Hamas, ISIS).

Bottom line: to date India has not shown the stamina to respond to TSP in a sustained manner and has always buckled under pressure. Even in the current scenario, after a day or two's outrage at the mutilation of our soldiers, the familiar useless debates on DDM, and worse, if reports are to be believed, ModiJi dispatching some steel baron to suck up to Gaanja. This kind of flip flop only perpetuates TSP and valley KM delusions, and makes India a laughing stock.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nam » 08 May 2017 02:09

We need to convert the LoC in to a PA meat grinder. Artillery & constant air attacks, every time there is an incident in Kashmir. Force PA to relocate forces from Afghan, Iran, Balouch & Waristan in to LoC. More the troops, more the grinding. We don't have to cross the LoC, just carry out standoff attacks. Make 10-15 km, a no-mans land. Invest in tech which allows us dominance in this attrition war.

This will in turn cause increased attacks in Balouchistan, waristan & afghan, fundamentally stretching the PA to a breaking point. Strain on their economy as defence spending will spike, paying pension for the dead ones and salary for the live ones. Every 10 killed, means compensation and pension for 10 and salary for 1 more who takes his place.

One of the prime reason PA uses proxies against is they don't need pension or monthly salary. Just a holy book & get high. Hit their uniformed soldiers and increase the cost.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 May 2017 03:33

The above should be obvious to GoI x30 years. So the question is why have these measures not been implemented? What inhibits india's response?

India's economy and strategic salience have in fact insulated it from the sanctimonious sermons that used to emanate much like the westerly monsoon winds.

It is certainly the possibility of civil disorder on a massive scale within India. Is the intelligence apparatus efficient enough to preempt activation of sleeper cells, rogue mullahs, starry eyed ghazi wannabes and unemployable Muslim lumpen?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ManSingh » 08 May 2017 04:11

My guess is capability vs intent.
1) We do not have 3:1 force ratio(plains) to dominate PA. In mountains, it would be (12:1).
2) We have to pay for defense capital expenditure. PA gets CSF, assistance from cheen, no R&D cost etc.
3) Indian army has to deploy in hinterland also. PA has no such requirement.
4) PA has one neighbor to match( Levies + rangers is who patrol Iranian, afghan borders with some army elements ). IA has two fronts. What happens if China opens a front in Ladakh?
5) Very low defence expenditure on our side( 1.65% ).
6) Mountainous terrain is not the most conducive for stand-off attacks. What happens if you launch a smerch/pinaka salvo? These are supposed to flatten all structures+forces in a square area. No such areas in mountains. Line of sight is required and that is why so many paki posts become targets vs built-up structures.

What I think will work:
1) Abrogation of article 370. An absolute must.
2) Threat of IWT - This will take time. We don't seem to have necessary infrastructure in place yet.
3) Absolute Naval domination
4) Targeted attacks on high value targets within pak.
5) Technological domination viz huge improvements in ELINT, SIGINT.
6) Boots on the ground + air force bases( not a single medical hospital base ) in Afghanistan?
7) Complete control of narrative in J&K ( no internet + no vitriolic KM newspapers + no hurriyat. Equal rights to Jammu and Ladakh. Expenditure in Kashmir per population should be equivalent to expenditure in rest of India )
8 Massive increase in force capabilities( i.e. Heli + artillery capabilities at lower than division level ).

Just my humble opinion...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 May 2017 04:18

Just how much do Indian dogs subsidise these saintly KMs? Why are they not at the level of Gonds? Are the Gonds and Bhils any less deserving of Indian largesse? Perhaps it's time to leave them to their devices and the jihadi dogs they worship?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ManSingh » 08 May 2017 04:38

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jammu-and-kashmir-most-pampered-state-in-india/1/218463.html

A Kashmiri gets eight times more money from the Centre than citizens from other states. While per capita Central assistance to other states moved from Rs 576.24 in 1992-93 to Rs 1,137 in 2000-1, that of the Kashmiri spiralled from Rs 3,197 to Rs 8,092.
To get a perspective, translate the numbers: if this cash, managed by the state Government, were to be despatched by money order, each Kashmiri family (with five members on an average) would get Rs 40,460 every year.

For all that talk of autonomy or azadi, the fact is that Jammu and Kashmir cannot sustain itself without the Centre's support. In 2001-2, the state spent Rs 7,516.6 crore of which Rs 4,577 crore-or 60 paise of every rupee spent-came from the Centre.
The state's non-development expenditure was Rs 2,829 crore including a salary bill of Rs 1,193 crore while its own revenues were barely Rs 1,095 crore. The state could not have paid even the wages of its employees without the Centre's help.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 May 2017 04:54

The day may not be too far when hard working Jaats of Haryana and Jats of Panjab obstruct transport of their grain to the valley.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Prem » 08 May 2017 06:38

sanjaykumar wrote:The day may not be too far when hard working Jaats of Haryana and Jats of Panjab obstruct transport of their grain to the valley.

I like the idea of 10 Million Bachelors from whole India go on hugging March to Valley and bring permanent peace to these wretched souls in Valley .

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hanumadu » 08 May 2017 10:46

https://twitter.com/NaIna0806/status/861445633022078976

Watch the video in this tweet. Paki bunkers blown to pieces. You can see paki bodies flying in the air. The first shot looks like that of a guided missile and not artillery shell as it homed in on an entrance to the bunker.

The soldier is reporting to some one that bunker has been hit, the missile went inside to his higher up. Can't the higher up see with a pair of binoculars? Is he not present there? Who is he reporting to?

Very gratifying visuals.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hanumadu » 08 May 2017 10:49

^^So it is true that after the beheading of the soldiers, Indian army did destroy paki bunkers and killed their soldiers. Why did the Indian army deny the reports?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 08 May 2017 11:52

nam wrote:We need to convert the LoC in to a PA meat grinder. Artillery & constant air attacks, every time there is an incident in Kashmir. Force PA to relocate forces from Afghan, Iran, Balouch & Waristan in to LoC. More the troops, more the grinding. We don't have to cross the LoC, just carry out standoff attacks. Make 10-15 km, a no-mans land. Invest in tech which allows us dominance in this attrition war.


That is the biggest problem with our approach. We sit around like civilized folk (that we are) waiting for the Porks to attack us at the time and place of their choosing, and attack us they do. Following which there is the usual round of nonsense that we are witnessing now from all quarters and then people forget about it till they attack us again whereupon the whole cycle repeats. This stupidity seems to be embedded in our DNA from since the days of Prithviraj Chauhan.

What we need is to throw off our self-applied constraints, realize that their only goal is our destruction by whatever means and that we are already at war and that the next attack is not a matter of if but when, and just attack them randomly and proactively. Keep analyzing for anything that might be vulnerable on their side, attack them with deadly force, fortify ourselves against retaliation and bring in better and bigger firepower. Say that we are responding to unprovoked firing from their end. Who says that only they can use plausible deniability.

Let them be on the defensive for once instead of us. Let their army explain the casualties/failure to their media and people (of course its all ISPR controlled and many of the casualties will be denied, but they will creat some pressure after a point, they can deny only so much). Let their media self-flagellate on how their relationships with neigbors has gone wrong.

CRamS wrote:TSP will of course squirm, and its 3.5 will demonize "Hindus extremist" led BJP govt for depriving water to TSP, its an act of war, nuke flash-point yada yada. Then at that point, when the bar has been set so high, India can then say, if you (meaning white Pakis) are so concerned about nuke flash-point, here are a list of demands from India, chief of them being complete stoppage of TSP terror and instigating violence in the valley for a period of at least 2+ years and then talks on restoring status quo ante etc etc (and India can do an equal equal of its own and will be on firm ground: TSP sponsored pigLeTs == Al Queda, Hamas, ISIS).

+100

Along the lines of what I mentioned about others besides Porks being able to use plausible deniability as well. Claiming nuclear flashpoint is a game that not just TSP but even we can play. We have just boxed ourselves in and limited our options. I'd say that we are suffering from 'log kya kahege' syndrome but that is too mild/charitable....we are more like a well-trained dog who gets physical and emotional pleasure from getting a patronizing pat on the head from the 'international community' (a nebulous concept if there ever was one).
Last edited by Bart S on 08 May 2017 12:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 08 May 2017 12:22

hanumadu wrote:^^So it is true that after the beheading of the soldiers, Indian army did destroy paki bunkers and killed their soldiers. Why did the Indian army deny the reports?


Please don't believe stuff that you see on social media. Unless it comes from a reputable source like retired officers or defence reporters take it with a pinch of salt. Most of these are at the level of clickbait and whatsapp forwards, i.e attention seeking people spamming/making stuff up/regurgitating old pics or videos that they ripped off from wherever and blatantly misrepresented to get clicks.

There was a picture posted here earlier of 'massive artillery response lighting up the night sky' or something to that effect, a simple google picture search showed that it was a stock photo of US M777 being tested with some new artillery round, from 4 years ago.

sanjaykumar wrote:Just how much do Indian dogs subsidise these saintly KMs? Why are they not at the level of Gonds? Are the Gonds and Bhils any less deserving of Indian largesse? Perhaps it's time to leave them to their devices and the jihadi dogs they worship?


Please do not insult dogs.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby madhu » 08 May 2017 15:10

Doc allegedly refuses to treat Kashmiri, saying: You throw stones at our security forces!: "You throw stones at our security forces and then come here for treatment" was a doctor's response when he was approached by a Kashmiri patient at the Post Graduate Institute of Medical Education and Research in Chandigarh.
The authorities at the PGIMER have ordered a probe into the alleged misbehaviour of the doctor.
Nasreena Malik, a resident of Kashmir who is suffering from internal carotid artery aneurysm, was brought to the to the neurosurgery department at the PGIMER by her son Javaid Ahmad Malik. The doctor allegedly told them, "You throw stones at our security forces there (Kashmir) and come here for treatment." Malik said he did not know the name of the doctor.
"He was fine until he saw the prescription card of hospitals in Kashmir ... He threw them away," Malik alleged.
The patient was advised to undergo angiography and told that the treatment would cost Rs 15 lakh.
Taking a serious note of the incident, PGIMER director Prof Jagat Ram has ordered a probe into it. "We have sought a report from the head of department. If the doctor is found guilty, action will be taken against him," he said


I completely agree with this. B***** wants all sops and good treatment from us and backstab us only... I don't know why action should be taken on the doctor?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 08 May 2017 16:10

madhu wrote:
Doc allegedly refuses to treat Kashmiri, saying: You throw stones at our security forces!: "You throw stones at our security forces and then come here for treatment" was a doctor's response when he was approached by a Kashmiri patient at the Post Graduate Institute of Medical Education and Research in Chandigarh.
The authorities at the PGIMER have ordered a probe into the alleged misbehaviour of the doctor.
Nasreena Malik, a resident of Kashmir who is suffering from internal carotid artery aneurysm, was brought to the to the neurosurgery department at the PGIMER by her son Javaid Ahmad Malik. The doctor allegedly told them, "You throw stones at our security forces there (Kashmir) and come here for treatment." Malik said he did not know the name of the doctor.
"He was fine until he saw the prescription card of hospitals in Kashmir ... He threw them away," Malik alleged.
The patient was advised to undergo angiography and told that the treatment would cost Rs 15 lakh.
Taking a serious note of the incident, PGIMER director Prof Jagat Ram has ordered a probe into it. "We have sought a report from the head of department. If the doctor is found guilty, action will be taken against him," he said


I completely agree with this. B***** wants all sops and good treatment from us and backstab us only... I don't know why action should be taken on the doctor?


Take action against this, but then also against all the doctors in J&K who refuse to treat soldiers and policemen.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 08 May 2017 16:50

in cashmere military hospitals, injured soldiers and terrorists are often operated upon on adjacent tables without the doctors questioning who did what. The injured receive the same quality care irrespective of who they are but this is however not the norm in cashmeree hospitals where policemen and paramilitary forces are routinely refused treatment. Those effing doctors have studied in Indian medical colleges and their salaries are now being paid by the Indian taxpayer as are all the other medical facilities that the ungrateful locals enjoy at no cost to themselves.

However, I appreciate the doctor in chandigarh. No nonsense about the hippocratic oath or some such BS. This cashmeree family has got a jolt and with the attendant publicity, others cashmerees will also get a jolt.

The effing cashmere's should know that they are hated by the rest of India. There should be no free pass for these b@st@rds.

I consciously use the spelling cashmere, because these anti national jokers are into it only for the cash they get from India.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 08 May 2017 17:18

It's a serious idea and i had no idea( I should have sensed) that there are Kashmir hospitals that refuse Indian soldiers/paramilitary treatment. But "Cashmere" because they take Indian cash, that warrants a :lol: Annoyingly true,but very funny.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 08 May 2017 17:20

Btw, wouldn't surprise me if some non-Indian news outlet picks up the story of Kashmiris being refused, and gives it a huge anti-India, pro-Kashmiri slant, without any counter balancing information.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby hanumadu » 08 May 2017 19:00

Bart S wrote:
hanumadu wrote:^^So it is true that after the beheading of the soldiers, Indian army did destroy paki bunkers and killed their soldiers. Why did the Indian army deny the reports?


Please don't believe stuff that you see on social media. Unless it comes from a reputable source like retired officers or defence reporters take it with a pinch of salt.


The paki soldiers killed in our firing was also tweeted by a defence reporter. But it is just a surmise on my part that the video in question was after the beheading of two of our soldiers. The date of the paki bunker busting is not known for sure yet.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 May 2017 19:05

Do we want Indian doctors sinking to the level of those in Cashmore?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 09 May 2017 01:59

sanjaykumar wrote:Do we want Indian doctors sinking to the level of those in Cashmore?


No, it is against all human values, and is an own goal of sorts as it gives people a propaganda tool. GOI must warn and if needed take action against such doctors, and that is what is being done, if the news item is to be believed.

However there is absolutely no excuse for allowing doctors in Srinagar to violate the same laws, they need to be jailed if they continue with that.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sunnyP » 10 May 2017 12:02

SRINAGAR: An army officer was today found killed in Shopian district of south Kashmir, police sources said.

The body of the Lieutenant rank officer was found with bullet wounds in Hermain area of the district, they said.

The body was identified to be of an Army Lieutenant Umar Fayaz.

"The officer had been kidnapped by militants late on Tuesday evening from Kulgam town where he had gone to attend a family function," a police officer said.


http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 605109.cms


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 12 May 2017 23:26

Hizbul threatens to behead Hurriyat leaders over Kashmir statement
A top Hizbul Mujahideen leader has threatened to behead separatist Hurriyat leaders for calling Kashmir a political struggle instead of a religious war for the creation of an “Islamic state”.

and
“We just want to ask these hypocrites if Kashmir is a political issue (then) why are you raising slogans like ‘Azadi ka matlab kya (What is the meaning of freedom). La Illaha Ilallah’, ‘Pakistan say rishta kya (With is the relation with Pakistan). La Illaha Ilallah’,” the militant said, referring to the Hurriyat leaders’ frequent use of the phrase, “There is no one but Allah”.

“Why do you come and address people in mosques?”, the leader said in the clip which first surfaced on social media and has been circulated throughout the valley and beyond.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 802wK.html

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 13 May 2017 05:04

Mostly Indian led counter Psyops at play by ensuring such media are spread all over the valley despite the SM ban currently in place

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby jamwal » 13 May 2017 22:59

From profile of a local BJP MLA
https://www.facebook.com/vikram.randhawa.106
Surprise visit at Govt Middle School Kiryani Talab Narwal. Bala..Threatening atmosphere as most of the students belong to illegal immigrants Bangladeshes, Burmese and Rohingies..Matter of shame for Previous Govts.

Image

Image

All "teachers" seem to be muslim too. No wonder school is full of illegal muslim immigrants

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 14 May 2017 03:32

twitter

1870s :: Khyber Pass


Image

Karan M
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2017 05:36

hanumadu wrote:^^So it is true that after the beheading of the soldiers, Indian army did destroy paki bunkers and killed their soldiers. Why did the Indian army deny the reports?


its an older event. not the current one.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 14 May 2017 08:25

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/art-35-a- ... in-nature/
this is a write up on Art 35A. This article enables Art 370. But Parliament never passed it since when it was added to the Constitution in 1954 through a Presidential Order. So much for the dignity of Parliament and rule of Law. The basic rights of women, children of women who marry non J&K residents, Safai karamcharis who are refused any jobs other than Safai Karmacharis are brought out by this write up.

On May 14, 1954, the President of India issued an order called the Constitution (Application to Jammu and Kashmir) Order 1954. It came into effect immediately and superseded the Constitution (Application to Jammu and Kashmir) Order 1950.
Besides carrying out many modifications and changes, this presidential order ‘added’ to the Constitution of India, a new Article namely 35A as an amendment to Article 35. The 1954 order states it is being issued “in exercise of powers conferred by clause (1) of Article 370 of the Constitution, with the concurrence of the Government of Jammu and Kashmir”. No amendment in Indian Constitution can be done without Parliament without following procedures mentioned in Article 368.
Article 35A was never presented before Parliament of India. Unlike other amendments, it appears in the Constitution as an appendix and is not listed in the list of amendments either.
Article 35-A has discriminated Permanent Residents of Jammu and Kashmir instead of Protecting the Permanent Resident. But it is propagated that this provision is for the protection of Permanent Residents of J&K. This provision has multiplied the miseries of many people in J&K instead of protecting them. The main worst sufferers are:
Women Permanent Residents
Backed by Article 35-A Section 6 as adopted and strictly enforced by the State Government reads: (I) “Every person who is, or is deemed to be, a citizen of India under the provisions of the Constitution of India shall be a permanent resident of the State, if on the fourteenth day of May, 1954, (a) he was a state subject of class I or of class II, or (b) having lawfully acquired immovable property in the State, he has been ordinarily resident in the State for not less than ten years prior to this date” and (II) “any person who, before the fourteenth day of May, 1954 was a State Subject of class I or of class II and who, having migrated after the first day of March, 1947, to the territory – now included in Pakistan, returns to state under a permit for resettlement in the State or for permanent return issued by or under the authority of any law made by the State Legislature shall on such return be a permanent resident of the State”.
As for Sections 8 and 9, the former gives the State Legislature the right to define Permanent Residents and the latter empowers the State Legislature to alter the definition of Permanent Residents.


the basic nature of J&K Constitution has been altered rendering it discriminatory towards women who are reduced to chattels
All the laws framed by Maharaja Hari Singh or subsequent Government were Gender neutral. They defined the Permanent resident not Male permanent resident or female resident. But later on notwithstanding anything in PRC act the concept of “Valid Till Marriage” got introduced in it without any legal sanction.

the J&K high court intervened taking 28 years to deliver a judgement in the case titled State Of Jammu & Kashmir, Dr. ... vs Dr. Susheela Sawhney And State Of ... on 7 October, 2002 Equivalent citations: AIR 2003 J K 83, 2003 (1) JKJ 35
Up to 2002, the Revenue Department was issuing Permanent Resident Certificates (PRCs) to the female residents of Jammu and Kashmir with the endorsement as “Valid Till Marriage”. This became ground for a petition before the State High Court about 15 years back whereby selection of a doctor was challenged on the plea that she was married to non state subject.
The judgment of Single Judge whereby selection was quashed was challenged in the Division Bench of J&K High Court and keeping in view the involved legal issue a Full Bench comprising of Justice V Jhanji, Justice T Doabia and Justice M Jan was constituted.
The reference before the Full Bench was: “Whether the daughter of a permanent resident of the State of Jammu and Kashmir marrying a non-permanent resident loses her status as a permanent resident of State, to hold, inherit and acquire immovable property in the State?”
In view of the majority opinion, the Full Bench in a case titled Jammu and Kashmir Versus Dr Sushila Sawhney and Others held that a daughter of a permanent resident marrying a non-permanent resident will not lose the status of permanent resident of State of Jammu and Kashmir.
Though the State Government initially filed Special Leave Petition (SLP) in the Supreme Court against the verdict of Full Bench of J&K High Court but later withdrew the same after making an opinion that it will carry out necessary amendments in the Act governing issuance of PRCs.
In March 2004, an attempt was made by the PDP-led coalition government to bypass the High Court’s landmark judgment. It moved an official Bill after the tough stand of Hon’ble Supreme Court which was passed in a record 6 minutes.

the aftermath
But the Bill was declared “defeated” in the Legislative Council. The main reason was that the bill had created a storm in Jammu and at the national level as anti-women, reactionary and out-dated.
J&K High Court on four occasions delivered judgments aimed at ensuring gender equality. The judgments were unambiguous and were hailed by one and all.
Unnecessary confusion has been created to implement the judgement of Hon’ble High Court in Dr Susheela Sawney case and thereafter. After 15 years of Judgement the situation seems to be at the same point. Despite clear Judgement of Hon’ble High Court and law position a Committee has been constituted to deliberate on matters which are already settled. Central Govt cannot intervene because of Article 35-A.

and Art 35A which prevents the Central Government from intervening has even been passed by Parliament; which I suppose is necessary for Amending the Constitution
If a woman marries outside the state:
When women belonging to the state of Jammu-Kashmir marry outsiders, they cannot settle in the state even if the circumstances so demand.
A man from another state marrying J&K a woman cannot get PRC, hence none of the associated benefits. Which means he cannot buy land, cannot apply for a government job, his children cannot study in state-run professional colleges and institutes.
This means if a woman marries outside the state, she is virtually forced to leave the state and settle elsewhere. Earlier, such women used to completely lose the ‘permanent resident status’. But still her off springs and spouse don’t get PRC which is not there in case of male.
Now questions are:
* When Permanent resident law is gender neutral then how discrimination is being allowed to women in the name of gender?
* Are there any separate laws for male permanent residents?
* Whether Article 35-A was introduced to protect Permanent Residents or to discriminate?
* Is it not Human rights violation?
The most depressing story is that of safai karamcharis in Jammu-Kashmir.In 1957, around 200 Valmiki families were brought from Punjab to Jammu-Kashmir, following a cabinet decision, specifically to be employed as Safai Karamcharis (sweepers).
These families agreed to work in the state after being promised that the ‘permanent resident’ clause would be relaxed in their favour. After a lapse of five decades, family strength of each family has increased and number of employees has gone up. However, their plight is that they are ‘permanent residents’ of Jammu-Kashmir only to the extent of being Safai Karamcharis.
Their children have studied up to graduation level but are not eligible to apply for Government jobs. Their children cannot get admission to government-run professional institutes. The educated youth from these Valmiki families are only eligible to be appointed as safai karamcharis only.
The educated Safai-Karamcharis already working in Jammu Municipality now qualify for further promotions. But as they can only be employed as sweepers, there is no hope. These Safai-Karamcharis can vote for Lok Sabha elections, but not for State Assembly or municipality elections.
The colony that was allotted to Safai Karamcharis to live in (Valmiki Colony, Gandhi Nagar, Jammu) has not been regularized till date.
Now questions are:
* Are these the standards of Human rights being claimed?
* Don’t these people and their Children have right to grow and develop?
Gorkhas were employed in all the ranks of army of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh and then Maharaja Gulab Singh. Their families settled in Jammu and Kashmir more than 200 years ago. They are around one lakh people. They have State subject granted by Maharaja but now they are not granted PRC on illogical grounds. This is due to Article 35-A giving State Government free hand to discriminate even the Permanent residents of State.


some questions which the Powers that be need to address head on
Last edited by wig on 14 May 2017 12:09, edited 3 times in total.

Neshant
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Neshant » 14 May 2017 10:37

^^^ Pure crazyness.
Scrap 370 now.
Only India engages in such foolishness of divisiveness & creates a security situation in the process.
No other sane country does.
Scrap it now Modi.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby rsangram » 14 May 2017 20:20

Neshant wrote:^^^ Pure crazyness.
Scrap 370 now.
Only India engages in such foolishness of divisiveness & creates a security situation in the process.
No other sane country does.
Scrap it now Modi.


Absolutely. Scrap 370. This should be Modi's equivalent of Vajpayee's nuclear tests. Proactive change to status quo.

I wonder what is preventing Modi from going ahead with the scrapping. Unless, it is loss of nerves, the only thing i can think of is that the Indian armed forces are not ready to handle the aftermath of the scrapping.

Let us analyze the worst case scenarios of how the aftermath of the scrapping will play out. I am listing them in the order of less to more severe.

1. Mass scale uprising on the streets, which will necessitate at a minimum Governor's rule and a Martial Law in Kashmir.

2. Most likely result in complete shutdown and lock down of the valley for weeks, during which the government of India still has to ensure the availability of absolutely minimum essential services and essential items such as food, clothing etc. Government and the Army will have to be prepared to clampdown heavy with strict curfews for weeks, if not months.

3. The above will most likely have to be accompanied by and the government and army having to have detailed plans for and preparation for a brutal, and I mean truly Islamic style or Chinese style brutal crackdown on any and all dissent, while completely blocking off Kashmir Valley to any press, cell phone services, regular phone services, even extensive and extended power cuts, with the exception of hospitals, complete cut of off diesel and gasoline supplies, intercity transport such as bus and train and an absolute lock down for extended period of time.

4. The above will have to be accompanied by setting up of martial law courts, which should try any and all separatists and terrorists caught and impart to them, "speedy trial and justice", without too many appeals. By this I mean, arrest, trial, one appeal and "carrying out of the sentence", all within days, not weeks.

5. The government and the army should be prepared to take the "wayward" Kashmiri youths who have in the past or during this period indulged in anti national activities such as passing information to terrorists or Pakistan, stone pelting, providing refuge to terrorists etc, to special rehabilitation camps on the mainland, perhaps somewhere in Andhra or Tamil or Andamans, to impart them the education that their parents and madarsas failed to impart during their early childhood. I am talking about those that will not fit the bill to be prosecuted in the "Martial Law" courts.

6. The government has to immediately stop any and all civilian financial subsidies and aid, which is massive, and divert it to the Indian armed forces and the Martial Law administration of Kashmir. Setup a different temporary governing structure for Jammu and Ladakh and continue civil governance and aid there.

7. The government has to be prepared to handle massive CIVIL unrest and Terrorism in many parts of India such as the scores of, perhaps hundreds of Islamic enclaves of UP, Bihar, MP, Andhra and Telangana, Tamil, Kerala, West Bengal, Assam and even a couple of spots in Maharashtra and Karnataka. The government also has to be on the look out for any militancy and terrorist activity in Punjab.

AND NOW THE BIGGIES.

8. The government and the army should be prepared for an all out offensive from Pakistan, perhaps even an all out war, but certainly a 1948 style "non state actors'" invasion in the form of Pakistan irregulars, who really are Pakistan regulars, in conjunction with the full might of terrorist Tanzeems like Lashkar, Jaish, Hizbul Mujahadden and even main stream Islamic parties in in Pakistan.

9. The government and the army should be further prepared for the Chinese to take actions such as troop movements, increased incursions into India, deeply crossing into parts of Arunachal, with the objective to both, strengthen paki hand during all of this and to opportunistically take control of more Indian territory, as they have declared Arunachal to be disputed territory in any event and can always claim that they will keep physical control of this territory pending final "settlement".

10. And to top it all, the government should be prepared on the diplomatic, trade and financial front to face massive incoming fire from the so called "International Community" who themselves are suffering the scourge of Islamic terror, but would take this opportunity to score brownie points with the Islamists to "further their own interest", at least that is what they stupidly think, by throwing India under the bus and therefore, not only not raising a finger to "help" India financially, militarily or even diplomatically, but to actually, like I said, to sacrifice India for some perceived short term tactical gains, stemming from the crumbs that Islamists might throw to them. It is also possible that China can condition its pressuring of North Korea on Uncle siding with the Sino-Islamist axis during the whole scrap 370 episode, just like the Americans led by Madeline Albright, famously followed Chinese lead in aggressively ganging up against India during Indian nuclear tests in late 90s. The entire weight of the "International community", which includes multi lateral institutions like the UN (which by the way has 50 Islamic country votes), the Governments, the NGOs, the Press, the Propaganda machinery, the human rights organizations, you name it, will come down heavy on India and the Indian government has to be prepared for it.

------

I still think, that all of the above is quite manageable, as long as the Indian armed forces are fully prepared and battle ready. Then it is only a question of holding our collective nerves. But there are real questions about the readiness of the armed forces. And when I say that there is real question about their battle readiness, I am by no means blaming the armed forces for it. If the Indian armed forces are not battle ready, It is the political and governing apparatus of our country which is responsible for grossly mismanaging the acquisition of weapon systems, for not doing all of the political and administrative work required to keep our armed forces battle ready. This has been neglected by our political and bureaucratic dispensation for decades and deliberately so, to be able to indulge in massive corruption, theft and robbery. I hear things like, "we dont even have ammunition for 30 days engagement", and my heart sinks. I mean, how difficult is it to buy ammo ? and how expensive is it ? Any number of free lance outfits such as Taliban, ISIS, Al Shabab, Boka Haram and any number of much lesser organizations face no ammo shortage and have the capability to carry on multi decade insurgencies almost indefinitely, and how come a country like India does not have 30 day ammo ? Winter jackets ? Snow Shoes ? Bullet proof jackets ? Night vision glasses ? Basic radar and early warning systems ? Night flying aircrafts ? What the hell is going on here ?

-----

So, where do we stand ? I am not sure, because the whole scrapping of 370 depends and rests on the state of preparedness of the Indian armed forces.

I hope Modi is only holding back because of lack of preparedness of the Indian army and for no other reason, such as he is not able to hold his nerves. And I hope, that he understands the urgency of getting our armed forces prepared and is working on a war footing to accomplish that (no pun intended). I know there has been some movement over the past couple of years in expediting defense procurements, and some infra-structure building oriented towards defense, but it takes a lot, a lot more, particularly in view of the history of neglect and corruption and frankly I have not heard of a comprehensive plan and a sense of urgency on part of the government to completely revamp and effect radical changes in supporting our armed forces. This worries me.

If the Indian armed forces are not prepared then what ? Can we look at some alternatives.

Instead of scrapping 370, can we gradually start diluting it systematically, without scrapping. Meaning, just start disregarding it. We start off by creating new towns and settlements in the valley for Kashmiri Pandits, but locate a whole bunch of Biharis, Jats, Punjabis, Telegus, Tamils ( a lot of them returnees from West Asia, perhaps), but anyone who would take up the job, as security and support staff, in these settlements, (temporarily), and then keep gradually and opportunistically expanding these settlements. This may be less risky, but this requires a long term results oriented plan and a steely resolve to accomplish short term goals of locating a certain "number" every month or every quarter, on a consistent basis, day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, like the Islamists do......Islamists never get tired, they never give up, they are willing to take heavy losses and they think long term.....If that is not strategic I dont know what is, and that is why they win(at least in acquiring and holding territory and convert people to their faith, if you can call that winning), despite always fighting asymetrically.

My question is, that while I can understand that the preparedness or lack thereof, of Indian armed forces may prevent us from outright repealing article 370 in one go, why are we at least not embarking on or even thinking about the gradual eroding of 370, by starting to create these safe enclaves for Kashmiri Pandits and using these enclaves to over time change demographics, is beyond me. If we are not even willing to do this, or even think about doing this, how will we ever, even if we get a chance, repeal 370 ? Does not make sense. If we cant gather the nerves to stamp on a cockroach, how can we even talk in a Don Quixote-sque manner about slaying the dragon, so to speak. Are we completely delusional ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 14 May 2017 20:31

jamwal wrote:From profile of a local BJP MLA
https://www.facebook.com/vikram.randhawa.106
Surprise visit at Govt Middle School Kiryani Talab Narwal. Bala..Threatening atmosphere as most of the students belong to illegal immigrants Bangladeshes, Burmese and Rohingies..Matter of shame for Previous Govts.


Matter of shame for present govt that they are still there despite many reports. BJP's strategy of blaming previous govt can no longer work in such matter.


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