J&K News and Discussion - 2016

[Karthik S]

Farooq Abdullah leads in Srinagar bypoll !

His comments against India and IA is paying off. Well done NM.

[UlanBatori]

I still don't understand the pics, but don't see how they fudged the whole video. The right trouser leg (at least inside) is clearly gray, the left (outside) leg is blue jeans. Oh wait! Did it say he is a tailor in his off-ballstics hours?
Wonder what happens to the jeep if the radiator is blocked like this. Yeah, I know, I know, highly insensitive to the Hyoomaneating rights of the damn terrorist traitor. If they caught him throwing stones, they could find a nice cliff and practice ballistics themselves.

[chetak]

Received by email

Thought provoking. Could be the reason for CRPF not reacting.

While watching the video of a Kashmiri youth harassing the CRPF jawans, i was wondering as to what has emboldened these young men to ill treat the jawans .
The answer was not difficult to find .

One , Supreme Court in its verdict delivered on July 8 last year had given the state police liberty to probe the role of armed forces in alleged encounter cases in areas where the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) is in force .

Two, Supreme Court’s decision to interfere with the selection of what weapon systems to be used against the stone pelters has emboldened the seperatists and on the other hand has caused a serious set back to the security forces operational decision making capability.

Three , Some section of Indian media going hyper over the use of pellet guns and criticising & accusing often incorrectly, the Security forces of brutality .

How can in operational areas where terrorists are equipped with grenades, rocket launchers and Automatic weapons the security forces be exposed to legal processes that are applicable in peace time Policing.

Its in my opinion not only a great disservice being done by the SC but it also displays its lack of concern for the Life of SOLDIERS fighting against the cruel terrorists armed with sophisticated weapons .

One has to enquire as to who were the judges who have passed such a judgement, because it is done in a most cavalier manner and without the least awareness of ground realities!!!

Imagine FIR being filed against a Company Commander whose team has killed a few militants in a search operation or has killed a terrorist supporter who was escaping through the cordon .

Obviously, the separatists would be able to line up hundreds of witnesses to prove their point that the militant killed was an innocent man and not a terrorist . Such cases had happened a number of times in the Past, including accusations of ' Rape ' most brazenly & without an iota of truth behind it!!!

Which Company commander and his men would like to be dragged into a long drawn legal battle in Kashmir ???!!! .

All this has probably had a cumulative impact on CRPF leadership as well when it is seen that the Govt due to adverse publicity and Supreme Courts interference is taking a safe approach .

This audacity displayed by Separatists is an out come of the SUPREME COURTS interference .

The Govt, although, has once again appealed to the SC to review its judgement but the Judges who have now gone to an extent of deciding which weapon system should be used, it is unlikely that they will dilute their judgement passed last year .

In view of the above following is likely to happen soon ;

One ,

Strong opposition or reluctance displayed by soldiers in CRPF and in Army against carrying out patrolling duties or participating in operations because no one wears the uniform to get kicks by the separatists .
Two ,


Increased level of violence by separatists against the Security forces .

Three ,

In the absence of any legal cover, the Security forces are likely to sit tight within their premises and may avoid operating in built up areas or populated areas. Because No company commander or CO would risk his career or would like to get involved into long drawn legal processes .
Four ,

The militancy may spread across the Pir Panjal .

My opinion is that the Nation can not be run on the whims and fancies of Judiciary.

There is an urgent need to ;
One,

The Govt to put its foot down and asks SC not to meddle in aspects which are in Executive domain. Even if that amounts to taking on the judiciary, head on. India is more important than a few SC judges .

Two ,

The Security Forces leadership takes on the SC directly by asking them to visit Kashmir and then suggest measures, instead of passing judgements sitting in their AC Court rooms .
Three ,

We all write and take up this issue and get after the Supreme Court Judges and give them some COMMON SENSE. It's a matter of our SECURITY & NATION'S INTEGRITY.

We need to remember that Terrorism is not going to go away by making compromises in the Valley and realise it would further spread to other areas as well and finally engulf entire Nation.

The Judges need to be reminded that Institutions are made for the country and its people and not the other way round.

[chetak]

xposted from the political thread

Truth behind video of Overground Supporter of Terrorists tied to Jeep.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vxdnrtFRu_0





also

https://youtu.be/ZS2uIagwsOQ

[krishna_krishna]

Stone pelters chanting ",porkis murdabad"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8vVi2bDKY

[vasu raya]

stone pelters caught red handed (with video) can be made to do the community service of riding on the spare tire...

[SBajwa]

Getting Azadi!! Soldiers are speaking Punjabi in Gurdaspur/Amritsar accent

[SBajwa]

[Vivek Kumar]

These videos warmed the cockles of my heart. This should be SOP in dealing with these ungrateful kashmiri scum going forward. Spread of these videos on social media should actually be encouraged. International opinion be damned. These 3 videos will cure a lot of these stone pelters, believe me. There is a saying in Punjabi, "Danda pir hai vigriya'n tigriya'n da." Loosely translated, "Mischief makers have one cure only, a baton to the butt." No doubt those are Gurdaspuriya/Amritsariya boys in "paki murdabad" and "baton to the butt" videos.

[eklavya]

Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar states that he is not a stone pelter. It appears that no judicial process was conducted before he was tied to the front of the Army jeep, and indeed no judicial process is being conducted now that he has been released. If he was a stone pelter, should he not be arrested, charged and tried?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 29630.html

To my mind, the unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law. One cannot uphold the law or safeguard the unity and the integrity of the republic by breaking the law.

[SBajwa]

Here is J&K police



They have actually lined up the stone pelters and are given azadi one by one with Danda from many police officials!

[chetak]

Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar states that he is not a stone pelter. It appears that no judicial process was conducted before he was tied to the front of the Army jeep, and indeed no judicial process is being conducted now that he has been released. If he was a stone pelter, should he not be arrested, charged and tried?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 29630.html

To my mind, the unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law. One cannot uphold the law or safeguard the unity and the integrity of the republic by breaking the law.

Perhaps, the press is biased and did not appreciate the true role of Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar.

He wasn't tied as is being mischievously misreported but as there was no provision of a seat belt in that observer's vantage position, some sort of local restraining mechanism was evolved so that the IA would not be in direct contravention of the Motor Vehicles Act specifically regarding the mandatory use of seat belts.

He was thus wearing a seat belt of local design and manufacture, meant for one time use only.

He is proud that he volunteered his valuable and patriotic services when requested by the IA and also has upheld gandhian values at the same time.

twitter

Using a local 'volunteer' to protect army vehicles from stone pelting in Kashmir is a great non-violent idea.

Gandhiji would approve.

[eklavya]

^^^
Mr. Dar was tied to the front of the jeep. How does a human shield at the front of the jeep stop a stone throwing criminal intent on attacking the side or the rear of the vehicle, or indeed the following vehicle? Why should one assume that the stone throwing criminals care about the life of one individual (they would happily have him as one more 'martyr' to the cause)?

I also haven't seen any video tape of this particular army vehicle being in the midst of an allegedly several hundred strong mob that was intent on lynching the security forces manning the voting booth. The video clip I have seen is of shuttered shops and very few people on the road:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... OTEwJ.html

Mr. Dar claims to be one of the 7% who voted in the by-election, and was thereby participating in a constitutional procedure.

I can't say anything about his treatment is remotely lawful or constitutional.

[chetak]

Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar states that he is not a stone pelter. It appears that no judicial process was conducted before he was tied to the front of the Army jeep, and indeed no judicial process is being conducted now that he has been released. If he was a stone pelter, should he not be arrested, charged and tried?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 29630.html

To my mind, the unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law. One cannot uphold the law or safeguard the unity and the integrity of the republic by breaking the law.

Perhaps you would have liked it better if a considerable number of CRPF and J&K police trapped in a polling booth had been lynched by the stone pelting mob while the "local unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law" stood by and did nothing or opened fire and killed a number of cashmiri stone pelters in an attempt to rescue the said CRPF and J&K police personnel??.

Very tough choice to make, no??

[chetak]

^^^
Mr. Dar was tied to the front of the jeep. How does a human shield at the front of the jeep stop a stone throwing criminal intent on attacking the side or the rear of the vehicle, or indeed the following vehicle? Why should one assume that the stone throwing criminals care about the life of one individual (they would happily have him as one more 'martyr' to the cause)?

I also haven't seen any video tape of this particular army vehicle being in the midst of an allegedly several hundred strong mob that was intent on lynching the security forces manning the voting booth. The video clip I have seen is of shuttered shops and very few people on the road:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... OTEwJ.html

Mr. Dar claims to be one of the 7% who voted in the by-election, and was thereby participating in a constitutional procedure.

I can't say anything about his treatment is remotely lawful or constitutional.

give it a rest, old chap. we dhimmi Hindus are always in the majority.

We will always take the word of a stone pelter over that of the IA. Always.

Mr Dar?? Really??

Getting lost in endless semantics and strawman arguments while enemies set fire to the country seems to be our forte, since centuries.

[eklavya]

^^^
If he was a stone pelter, why has he been released? Try him and hang him (if found guilty). Law and due process are not straw men. I am as Hindu as you, I am not a dhimmi, and Indian muslims in Kashmir are not my enemy. Now, I will give it a rest!

[UlanBatori]

I feel that Mr. Dar hs been rightly released on his own recognizance. The government is not in the habit of putting productive, able-bodied talented citizens (of Pakistan) such as Mr. Dar in jail without, as you say, proper trial, and that too on the word of mere SDRE >>>>Indian<<<<< Army. They DID ask a Jury of His Peers whether they wanted to throw stones at him, and he was clearly found innocent, so they released him to go home.

AFAIK, Indian Army is there to keep the peace and suppress riots. Arresting ppl for peccadillos like practising ballistics on a public street, is up to the very able J&K Polis.

Entirely too much is being made of giving Mr. Dar a pleasant ride on the FRONT of a jeep, where he did not have to mix with mere Indians. In Kerala the Polis SOP was to allow the invited volunteer to recline on the FLOOR of the truck in the back, with all polis sitting on both sides with their boots caressing the person to sleep. Also on the way to lockup, not to court.

[shyamal]

Huge support for the "human shield" act all around.
People who were crying about pellet guns last year are happy about this act today

[rohitvats]

Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar states that he is not a stone pelter. It appears that no judicial process was conducted before he was tied to the front of the Army jeep, and indeed no judicial process is being conducted now that he has been released. If he was a stone pelter, should he not be arrested, charged and tried?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 29630.html

To my mind, the unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law. One cannot uphold the law or safeguard the unity and the integrity of the republic by breaking the law.

Do you realize the commonly understood definition of 'human shield' does not apply in this case?

Here is why - ISIS uses human shield to save themselves from Iraqi army and air force. Palestinians use human shields. LTTE used human shields in a massive way during their last days. All used it prevent a superior enemy from harming them.

Now, is army afraid of stone-pelters in Kashmir? Were they trying to save their skin? Nope.

When the SOS went out from ITBP and Poll officials to rescue them from a murderous mob, the IA officers and his troops could've acted in of two manners (a) Use completely justified and legally permissible force to shoot to kill stone pelters and others attacking security forces. Irrespective of crowd size, 4-5 casualties would've meant that it would've dispersed in double quick time. In fact, casualties could've been higher. May be 9-10 people. (b) Do what the officer did to deter the Kashmiris.

You see, the IA used the human shield to save KASHMIRIS and not themselves. Therein lies the difference.

[SRoy]

*उम्र जन्नत में रह कर,*
*उसे उजाड़ने में गुज़ार दी,*

*और जिहाद बस इस बात का था,*
*की मरने के बाद जन्नत मिले...!*

[DrRatnadip]

surgical strike on stone pelter's rear is sure to deter many piglets..These videos made my day..

[sudeepj]

Mr. Farooq Ahmad Dar states that he is not a stone pelter. It appears that no judicial process was conducted before he was tied to the front of the Army jeep, and indeed no judicial process is being conducted now that he has been released. If he was a stone pelter, should he not be arrested, charged and tried?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/kash ... 29630.html

To my mind, the unit that conducted this operation appears to have acted with disregard to law. One cannot uphold the law or safeguard the unity and the integrity of the republic by breaking the law.

This is counter insurgency the worst kind of conflict there is. There are no heros and no villains. Its very difficult to sort out what is the truth and what is not. The presence of conflict and war makes any kind of inquiries worthless. The stringer who reported the story of Mr Dar may be compromised. Or he may have been directed to follow a particular editorial line by his seniors. Or Mr. Dar himself could be a party of the conflict and hence have a motivation to lie. Or he may indeed be completely innocent and unjustly picked up by the jawans as a consequence of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or he may have been involved in stone throwing, but only under threat from terrorists. Or the jawans may have been misled by a local informant. There is no way to tell and anyone who claims that they *know* is simply deluding himself.

Had the chap been in Delhi, we could have run investigations and so on, but that is simply not possible in Kashmir valley.

Bottomline is, war/counter insurgency is hell. Lets get it over with as soon as we can so we can have rule of law again. But for rule of law to prevail, the state must establish a monopoly on violence. What does this curious phrase mean? It means that only the state has the right to use violence and compulsion. In more civilized states, you can not even kick your dog! In somewhat less civilized states, you can kick your dog but not your wife! In even less civilized, you can kick your dog and your wife, but not your neighbor! And so on.

In the civilized state, if the state comes to know of you kicking even your dog, it can impose a fine, take the dog away, imprison you etc. and if you resist, the entire might of the state - police, army, tanks, airplanes - stands behind to enforce the states writ. Usually all of these capabilities are not required and the state has instead a more polite and refined machinery, civil/family/criminal courts, prosecutors, defenders, press, judges etc. to inflict righteous violence. But make no mistake, if the refined machinery of the state fails or is defied, it is backed by more severe instruments of violence such as the army, tanks... By ceding our capability to inflict violence on each other to a higher and mutually agreed upon authority, that is the state, we allow each other to build civilization itself.

But if there is a parallel authority that comes into being that passes its own judgements, its own violence, insists that the 'dharm danda' of righteous violence belongs to it and not the state, and it gains significant traction in the population, the situation becomes very difficult for the state machinery. In Kashmir, the Jihadi's claim to legitimacy is Sharia. That they have non trivial traction is evident to all. That they have completely broken the legitimate refined instruments of state violence is a little obscure but still true. For instance, the homes of numerous Kashmiri govt. workers have been ransacked, numerous sarpanchs have been tortured and shot to death, girls have been disfigured and assaulted for not behaving in line with Sharia, a large ethnic minority has been ethnically cleansed.. A few years ago, the J&K Bar council refused to defend some defendants because they had committed crimes against Islam! In this way, the police, the press, the prosecutors have all been either ideologically subverted or bludgeoned into complying. Caught in the cycle of violence, a lot of the population can come in sway of a false consciousness and support the alternate and new machinery of violence.

At this point, the state has two options. Either to vacate its authority, or to extirpate the alternate proto state. Any other third option will only prolong the suffering of all combatants. As thinking people, we must examine if the state has the moral authority to persevere. To me, its absolutely clear that a democratic India governed by a secular ethos of one man, one vote and equal rights to all has a nearly infinite moral authority compared to the jihadi Kashmiri activists. In fact, as long as there is a single Kashmiri child who disagrees with the Jihadis, the Indian state has a moral duty towards preserving his or her interests by bringing back the rule of law to that troubled land. Even if every last Kashmiri muslim wants us out, as long as there is a possibility that such a child may be born in future, we have a grave responsibility to keep the real idea of India alive there.

If the state decides to reestablish its monopoly on violence in Kashmir, the process will be necessarily bloody and messy. Just recently, there were pictures of about 18 LeT and Hizbul terrorists armed to the teeth that were circulated on social media. Is anyone foolish enough to think that these terrorists can be eliminated without any civilian losses? We must not second guess our soldiers in the field who have to make quick life and death decisions. They too are traumatized by being in a perpetual state of conflict. They are doing a noble job in extremely difficult conditions using less than the minimal amount of force needed.

[manjgu]

i just ask people to ponder on a reverse situation..assuming a place where the majority populace is hindu and islam pasand security forces !!

[vasu raya]

Recently cabinet level meetings required that no cell phones be allowed as they could be used as listening devices, while such precautions are ok, the Indian state itself doesn't have the capability yet to hack into phones in the valley that are either uploading videos or spreading propaganda material to clear them...they are only fighting the after effects

[DrRatnadip]

^^maybe govt wants to spread videos.. This certainly will shape common public's opinian towards some permenant solution of kashmere issue..

[chetak]

Recently cabinet level meetings required that no cell phones be allowed as they could be used as listening devices, while such precautions are ok, the Indian state itself doesn't have the capability yet to hack into phones in the valley that are either uploading videos or spreading propaganda material to clear them...they are only fighting the after effects

stop data services in cashmere as a security measure.

[jamwal]

https://www.facebook.com/armedforcesofi ... f=NEWSFEED

Not so tough when facing army now, are they ? LOL

[anupmisra]

It is rare that these rioters are caught. IA should use these opportunities to photograph, create detailed identities and interrogate these rioters. Lawful methods only. Who knows what intelligence can be gleaned from that - names of other rioters, sources of money, politicians involved, riot tactics, communication channels...Think of the PR advantage.

[UlanBatori]

Speaking of money sources, these herrows were quiet for a while following Demonetization, proving where the fuel came from. What happened to revive them like watered weeds? Should be much easier now to track recent inflows, hain?

[UlanBatori]

https://www.facebook.com/armedforcesofindia/videos/695992847271189/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
Not so tough when facing army now, are they ? LOL

Interesting tactic: IA posts these videos instead of dhoti-shivering when others post. I suspect that most of India and the world are aware of typical polis niceties to captured rioters, that there is nothing shocking about seeing a bunch of kind army men gently swatting an esteemed Momeen citjen on the cheeks or allowing one to look into the barrel of an INSAS from 4 inches away. All 3 momeen also seem to have accidentally hit their faces on something, maybe the stock of an INSAS. Better than letting ppl imagine the kinder facilities where the momeen are experiencing gravity upside down. Now which video will the Hyoomaneaterians yell about first, hain?

[jamwal]

http://www.jammulinksnews.com/newsdetai ... protesters

One killed in Srinagar as BSF opens fire on protesters

A 23-year-old man was killed this evening when BSF jawans opened fire in Batmaloo area in city here. A senior police official said the man has been identified as Sajjad Ahmed, a resident of Chandoosa in Baramulla, and the Border Security Force jawans opened fire after stones were pelted on the force at the Reka chowk in Batmaloo. Following the incident, tension gripped the area and all shops have been shut down, the official said.

Read more at: http://www.jammulinksnews.com/newsdetai ... protesters
Copyright © Jammu Links News

[UlanBatori]

A resident of Baramula _ how far is that from the place where he became pest-e-sha'eed? IOW, are these imported ballistics experts from far away, or local "boys" out for exercise?

[vasu raya]

stop data services in cashmere as a security measure.

Data services aren't being cut indefnitely, so they store the videos and then release them once data connections are back up, while the sources are good for intel instead of completely muting them, it requires pervasive monitoring to control the emanating narrative much like Hollywood or the MSM does in the western world

check some of the liveleak videos on how Islamic militants are killed...vs. the political rhetoric seen in the valley in response to the local videos

[chetak]

Speaking of money sources, these herrows were quiet for a while following Demonetization, proving where the fuel came from. What happened to revive them like watered weeds? Should be much easier now to track recent inflows, hain?

what if we restrict the cash supply and force them to operate thru non cash sources. the only available cash will be identifiable as havala, paki or paki counterfeited helping the authorities to pin down and identify the supply chains

[manjgu]

i wish they neuter these guys... !! will check future rioters !..

[UlanBatori]

Unfortunately, DeMo affects both sides. Informers paid by the good guys will be tracked easily by the bad guys too. The bane of electronic money is "transparency".

[anupmisra]

A friend of mine who is with the IA in J&K sent me a two minute video from inside one of those MPVs while it was under attack by these low lives. It shows how well restrained and controlled the Indian soldiers are under such vicious attacks. I am unable to upload it. Can anyone help?

Added later: No worries. I just found a way to upload it.

[anupmisra]

I like the tactics of the Israeli Defence Forces when they are confronted by palestinian stone throwers. Here, in the US, police is remarkably restrained (don't believe a word of what the liberals and the commie media tell you). It takes a lot of courage and self restraint to hear the taunts and jibes by the rioters (who choreograph the events) and do nothing until the matters get truly out of hand.

[anupmisra]

Stone pelters viewed from inside the MPV. Remarkable restraint and self control showed the army personnel inside the vehicle.

https://vimeo.com/213427902

[svinayak]

Stone pelters viewed from inside the MPV. Remarkable restraint and self control showed the army personnel inside the vehicle.

https://vimeo.com/213427902

Can we make this viral. Post it in Facebook and other SM

Should come up on CNN and major TV channels worldwide if possible. Needs at least 10M views