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J&K News and Discussion - 2016

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
rohitvats
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby rohitvats » 17 Apr 2017 00:54

svinayak wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Stone pelters viewed from inside the MPV. Remarkable restraint and self control showed the army personnel inside the vehicle.

https://vimeo.com/213427902



Can we make this viral. Post it in Facebook and other SM

Should come up on CNN and major TV channels worldwide if possible. Needs at least 10M views


It is already on Twitter.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SSharma » 17 Apr 2017 01:12

if it was me, id just drive over these fkers

nam
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby nam » 17 Apr 2017 01:28

The PR was in Kashmir should be fought on the topic of morality. Just like a window broken in downtown Srinagar is blamed on India, every bad thing happening in other parts of Jk&L & India should be blamed on the guys in the valley.

We need PR on how Shias are discriminated by Sunnis in the valley. Need protest in Jammu against the valley, protest in Ladakh against the valley. Just like India is the scapegoat, the valley should be whipping boy.

Need news across the nation how the valley suck out Indian tax payer money for their benefit, while poor farmers in Andhra Pradesh die of hunger.
We should stop referring to Kashmir, rather it be reoriented as Srinagar. Need to insolate the valley.

The Kashmiri politicians have played this game to milk India royally. It is time to show we can play politics as well.

UlanBatori
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Apr 2017 04:03

Just how many momeen are in the Valley? I think already, Kashmiri MU**** == "traitor" in most of North India, but in the South people are not aware of J&K at all (except families of the jawans). This needs to be changed. On the one hand, all Kashmiri Mu**** should not be treated as traitors, obviously, when they are in other parts of India. But OTOH, there needs to be some harsh look at the cost imposed on India by a few no-goods. Sheikh Abdullah (the daddy, not the present twerp) wrote a book called "Flames of The Chinar" in which he makes it damn clear that the Valley Mu***** have never been anything better than a bunch of lazy layabouts. It had nothing to do with Indian Occupation or anything else, they are like that onlee.

It is time that the rest of India started a movement to wipe out Art 370 and demand that Kashmir Valley pay its dues to India. Raise property taxes and force out those who don't pay. Drive out those who are illegally occupied homes and land of the Hindu refugees starting 1947 (I bet things were bad in 1947, long before the Paki invasion in 1948).

Why not start this on social media? This may well become the big factor in future elections. It is sad that even today the election in Kashmir is between 80% traitors, 85% traitors, 90% traitors and 100% traitors. No decent candidate can survive. This has to change.

CHANGE the NAME of the State. What the heck is this "XXX AND YYY" as a name? Find out the ancient name of that region. The HUGE problem is the focus on "Kashmir" which is a valley inhabited by roaches. Call it "Durgara" which gives more importance to Jammu, to encompass Jammu, Vitasta, Ladakh, Aksai Chin, POK and Gilgit-Baltistan and Northern Areas.

Wipe out the bloody history from AD780 to 2014. Start over with a new population. Reduce the momeen to a minority.

Cosmo_R
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Cosmo_R » 17 Apr 2017 04:34

^^^I personally favor 'Vitasta' and article 370 revocation. And I also favor outsourcing law and order to United Airlines. Layabouts and rage boys will be 're-accommodated' to parts unknown along with their unknown parts.

Seriously, I think it's just time to say No Mas! Behave or else. Follow the Chinese and let anyone from India settle in Vitasta. The bakpakis are going to incorporate GB into pakistan as a province. This should be the trigger.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Prem » 17 Apr 2017 06:26


Prem
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Prem » 17 Apr 2017 06:34


Karthik S
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 17 Apr 2017 19:51

8 Pakistan Army soldiers killed as India retaliates to ceasefire violation along LoC in Rajouri


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jamm ... 30717.html

anupmisra
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby anupmisra » 17 Apr 2017 22:43

Please DO NOT TRUST this guy. He is as much a believer in supremacy of islam over others as the next paki. He even tags himself as belonging to the martial race. All he is looking for are a few concessions in exchange for taking the fight to J&K.


Prem wrote:

ArjunPandit
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Apr 2017 23:18

anupmisra wrote:It is rare that these rioters are caught. IA should use these opportunities to photograph, create detailed identities and interrogate these rioters. Lawful methods only. Who knows what intelligence can be gleaned from that - names of other rioters, sources of money, politicians involved, riot tactics, communication channels...Think of the PR advantage.
with the situation there, a rioter is just a stone's throw away :), pick anyone he will be able to give the name of his brothers doing practicing throw from silly point and slips.

Really great to see the guidance provided by IA to these "misguided" youth

UlanBatori
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 01:04

What is needed is the "dossier" leading to how the money comes in from TSP, and who distributes it, who launders it, and who pockets most of it. My guess is that the stink will lead to the top of J&K guvrmand and the J&K Polis. I am sure that many of these students receiving 1-on-1 instruction and coaching from IA will be ready by the time the truck gets to Army "debriefed friendship& re-education centers" to provide detailed essays on what they know - which may be very little.

DrRatnadip
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby DrRatnadip » 18 Apr 2017 01:18

I went to kashmere in march 16.. It was a fantastic tour..Majestic Dal lake, Gulmerg,Pehlgaam and many more destintions left a long lasting impression in my mind..Interacted with few locals..There was a palpable anger against local police but almost nobody said anything negative about army..I agree sample size was small..But everything looked pretty normal..
But since then situation is getting worse every passing day..First massive uproar against Burhaan Waanis encounter..very Large gatherings in his funeral were surprising..Then stone pelting became a norm in every army operation..This directly or indirectly increased our casualties .. Now these people are stone pelting almost everywhere even in absence of army operations.. people have gathered enough courage to slap our jawans.. Less than 2-3 % voting is an omnious sign.. Now china is blatently threatening to intervene in Kashmere.. It is very difficult to bring situation under control without using brut force..
Is there any way GOI can use this detoriating situation in our favour to revoke article 370?
Last edited by DrRatnadip on 18 Apr 2017 01:38, edited 1 time in total.

sunnyP
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sunnyP » 18 Apr 2017 01:19

The government's actions re J&K over the past 6-12 months leaves a lot to be desired. The poor security forces are working with one hand tied behind their backs which isn't good for security or the morale of the forces.

Doing the same thing time and time again while expecting different results is insane. Someone (Ajit Doval?) needs to come up with a new strategy and quick because pussyfooting around these scumbags in the valley isn't working.

ArjunPandit
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Apr 2017 02:14

Modi's initial investment of time and effort in Kashmir has not yielded the desired results. He tended all the sides softly Local populace, the govt, and IA. The days of carrots will hopefully end soon. A guy who can do demo can definitely go for 370. Time is ripe for it given GB is also integrated into Porkistan. They wont have any moral right to speak in UNGA. Then further administration changes can be brought in. Time of giving love and care were well past and now they are over due on over due.
China will have to lick cuts on both its butts (NOKO and PorKO)

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rishirishi » 18 Apr 2017 02:27

DrRatnadip wrote:I went to kashmere in march 16.. It was a fantastic tour..Majestic Dal lake, Gulmerg,Pehlgaam and many more destintions left a long lasting impression in my mind..Interacted with few locals..There was a palpable anger against local police but almost nobody said anything negative about army..I agree sample size was small..But everything looked pretty normal..
But since then situation is getting worse every passing day..First massive uproar against Burhaan Waanis encounter..very Large gatherings in his funeral were surprising..Then stone pelting became a norm in every army operation..This directly or indirectly increased our casualties .. Now these people are stone pelting almost everywhere even in absence of army operations.. people have gathered enough courage to slap our jawans.. Less than 2-3 % voting is an omnious sign.. Now china is blatently threatening to intervene in Kashmere.. It is very difficult to bring situation under control without using brut force..
Is there any way GOI can use this detoriating situation in our favour to revoke article 370?


India either needs to change the ethnic mix in the troubled area or they should give up the vally.

sudeepj
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sudeepj » 18 Apr 2017 02:50

I had a brainwave. AADHAR is the solution to the stone throwing problem. Almost every govt. benefit is being handled through AADHAR today, from NREGA, to Ujjwala, to Mudra to houses, to the kerosene and ration from PDS to what have you.

If anyone is caught throwing stones, outlaw them from AADHAR benefits. Simple!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bhurishravas » 18 Apr 2017 03:05

First, it is the media drama. Showing the pellet guns n stone throwing fellows. When it becomes news in India, Pak pasand jihadis naturally think desh is getting perturbed. So more of the same is encouraged.
Secondly, Indian central govt has been funding Kashmiris disproportionately. It is illogical to fund development of a region and attempt to make them more patriotic by throwing money at them. It is just not going to happen. A people who have nothing to eat because tourism is gone and have no other means to survive throw stones at army vehicles wearing Levi's jeans.
While the media is clearly paki, who is to blame for funding the jihadis in the valley. It is the Indian govt and not anyone else.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 07:06

IMO, level of anarchy is high enough that it is the right time to void 370 -esp. since the recent UP election. And raise property valuations and taxes in Vitasta. Those who sign the Pledge To The Nation can get a big reduction.

chetak
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby chetak » 18 Apr 2017 08:09

x posted from the political thread.

Why should India continue this sham of a "border trade"??


Exclusive: Under-Invoiced Goods From Pakistan Being Used To Fuel Protest In J&K
Under-invoicing worth Rs 75 crore unearthed.





Exclusive: Under-Invoiced Goods From Pakistan Being Used To Fuel Protest In J&K
Under-invoicing worth Rs 75 crore unearthed.

13/04/2017

Sudhi Ranjan Sen

Is Pakistan using the barter trade through the Jammu and Kashmir border to fuel protests in the valley?

National Investigation Agency investigations indicate the India-Pakistan border barter trade in Jammu and Kashmir in the last few years is under-invoiced by at least Rs 75 crores, top Union Home Ministry sources said. "Funds generated by the under-invoiced goods are being used to fund protest," sources confirmed.

The NIA is probing if the border barter trade is under-invoiced and cash generated by under-invoicing of incoming goods is being used to fund protesters in the valley.

"The investigations are being pursued seriously and will be complete soon," Director General of NIA Sharad Kumar told HuffPost India.


By-polls to the Srinagar parliamentary elections saw massive protests. Re-polling has been ordered in at least 38 polling stations. Eight people were killed and several thousand injured in the violence. The polling for Anantnag parliamentary seat has been differed by over a month from 12 April to 25 May. In 2016, over 80 people were killed in protests and several thousand, including security personnel, were injured in stone throwing and violence.

New Delhi maintains that while there could be some genuine reasons for anger within a section of people in J&K, much of the violent protest is being funded and engineered. Last year, Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh led an all-party delegation of Parliamentarians to the valley to engage stakeholders.


There are two border trading points in Jammu and Kashmir—the Uri-Muzaffarabad route and Poonch-Rawalakot route. These routes were opened for trade in October 2008 after a gap of 61 years.

The idea behind this major confidence building measures was to foster and increase "people-to-people" contact between Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) and the Kashmir valley controlled by India. About 21 items have been approved for trade. Some estimates, arrived at on the prices of goods provided by the traders, indicate commodities worth nearly 15 billion Indian rupees ($220 miillion) were exported to Pakistan on the Uri-Muzaffarabad and Poonch-Rawalakot routes between 2013-14 and 2015-16. India imported nearly Rs 13 billion ($190 million) during the same period.

And, despite the tension between the two countries since last year, the J&K government had asked for more trade routes to be opened.

"There is no decision yet to close down the border barter trade despite evidence that funds generated from under-invoicing is being used to fuel the unrest," a senior MHA official said.

How are funds generated from under-invoicing? Goods are bartered through these two trading points. Goods from Pakistan are imported at cost lower than its value. A kind of super profit is generated by selling these goods further in India. The excess, so generated, is used to fund protest.

Worrying religious tone of protest

New Delhi is also concerned about the overtly religious tone of the current protest in the valley. It feels that money is being channeled into J&K to give protest a religious colour.

The Hizbul Mujahideen (HM), for instance, in a recent statement said that the fight in Kashmir isn't for an independent homeland but "Islam." Unlike the Lasher-e-Toiba and the Jash-e-Mohammed, the HM is considered to be the only "Kashmiri" militant group.

New Delhi, therefore, hasn't responded to feelers from the state government and other stake-holders to re-start a political initiative. "On the contrary both the Prime Minister Office and Union Home Minister, Rajnath Singh has asked for a strong response to quell the violence. Protest will have handled with a heavy hand," top sources said

DrRatnadip
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby DrRatnadip » 18 Apr 2017 11:31

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/srinagar ... 234702.cms
This is serious if true. These pigs should be shot at sight..

Bhurishravas
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bhurishravas » 18 Apr 2017 14:42

Squeezing the jihadis economically will force them outta the hotbed. No amount of financial incentives will make them loyal to India. This is flawed reasoning.
Govt of India should give only as much fund as is proportionate to the valleys population. Either work and eat or throw stones and starve.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 15:28

For all nanha mujahids this is a battle of attrition. You have to be patient and go through highs and lows. The only solution to Kashmir valley is over turning Art 370 and for that you need 2/3 in parliament. So there is no choice but to keep fighting and wear them out till the time this can be done. The KMs know what is coming and are reacting like a person who is about to be suffocated.

DrRatnadip
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby DrRatnadip » 18 Apr 2017 15:35

Supratik wrote:For all nanha mujahids this is a battle of attrition. You have to be patient and go through highs and lows. The only solution to Kashmir valley is over turning Art 370 and for that you need 2/3 in parliament. So there is no choice but to keep fighting and wear them out till the time this can be done. The KMs know what is coming and are reacting like a person who is about to be suffocated.

Hope your prediction is true sir.. Unless everything is part of some chanakiyan plan of GOI, things are goung towards full blown civil war in valley..

UlanBatori
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 16:29

turning Art 370 and for that you need 2/3 in parliament.


FALSE, per S. Swamy. He says only simple majority is needed, but guvrmand has been too dhoti-shivering onlee. Probably needs approval by Rajya Sabha which has been iffy todin. Again - UP elections change all assumptions. Momeen in UP will appreciate that there is no justice in giving so much govt. largesse to their coujins in K.... compared to them, so equalization of rights is probably OK there. Of course that won't stop the paid yelling and stone throwing for a couple of dins until Cane Application is appreciated.

A complete overturning of the politics of J&K, to be replaced with Vathstha-Durga... will have somewhat radically different implications and opportunities. Of course there will be a drive towards violence in the very near term, as well as loud :(( :(( in UNGA, but once the Valley is cleaned out and populated by Indians, not would-b-pakis, it's a different ballgame. At least the scams like under-invoicing of Paki goods will be done by pucca yindoos.

If IA has to be used there, it should be to clean out POK and Northern Areas. As the NaranjaSir says, Time 4 ishtratejik Batience eej over onlee yaar.

Supratik
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 16:44

Nope it is a constitutional amendment, hence 2/3. Even for simple majority you need majority in RS. Till then have to wait.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby tsarkar » 18 Apr 2017 17:21


As I had posted a couple of pages back, plugging the financing will stop the insurgency. I simply cant understand govt policy of cross border trade.

Kashmiris trading with rest of India will be far more profitable for them. There is massive global jehadi fundraising being channeled to these unemployed Kashmiris.

The other issue is rapidly increasing fertility since the 90s, sustained by GoI subsidies and global jehadi funding. The overall J&K state fertility looks deceptively close to national average of 2 because of the low fertility among the Ladakhis and others.

With a fresh crop of unemployed youth raised in Saudi funded madarssas, we're bound to see such uprisings every 2-3 years.

And BJP in its haste to form a govt in the state with PDP ended up making a pact with the devil.

It was the Saudi funding of mosques and madarssas in Kashmir in 80s that resulted in radicalization in the 90s. It still continues. Refer the 2011 article. The RoI of that investment is visible today.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saud ... 65660.html

The famed Sufi tradition and spirit of Kashmiriyat in the Valley, already ravaged by decades of insurgency, faces a new challenge. Wahhabism, an austere, puritanical interpretation of Islam promoted by Saudi Arabia, is making deep inroads into Kashmir due to the efforts of the Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith, which calls itself a religious and welfare organisation.

Swelling congregations flock to about 700 mosques that the organisation, which registered itself way back in 1958, has built across the Valley. Practically every village along the picturesque, poplar-lined, 60-km stretch northwest of Srinagar towards Gulmarg has one or more Ahl-e-Hadith-funded mosques. The new mosques and their attendant madrassas make for a contrasting picture with the hundreds of dilapidated mosques built over centuries in the age-old Sufi tradition. Unlike worshippers at the older Sufi shrines, Ahl-e-Hadith mosques are overtly more conservative: women wear burqas or at least a headscarf, while the men sport beards and don skull caps; their traditional salwars end just above the ankle in accordance with Wahhabi tenets.

"Young Kashmiris are restive and disillusioned. To them, Ahl-e-Hadith is a new, more committed and determined option."
Mohammad Yousuf Tarigami, CPI(M) legislator

Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) Police and Central intelligence officers say Ahl-e-Hadith's funding comes primarily from Saudi Arabia. Based on US intelligence, they believe that the House of Saud, rulers of Saudi Arabia, had in 2005 approved a $35-billion (Rs 1,75,000 crore) plan to build mosques and madrassas in South Asia. "Wahhabi groups across Jammu and Kashmir were beneficiaries of this largesse," says a senior police officer.

Mohammad Yousuf Tarigami, CPI(M) legislator

Intelligence sources say Saudi charities and private donors route zakat (charity) money to J&K through illegal hawala channels. It increases during the Eid season. Whenever mosque managements are questioned about it, their explanation is that it is donation or goat-skin money. All organisations registered under the Foreign Contributions Regulation Act (FCRA), 1976, have to submit their annual balance sheets to the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). "Not one organisation registered under the FCRA in J&K accounted for money coming in from Saudi Arabia," says a senior MHA official. However, there is no way to keep track of funds received by organisations that are not registered with MHA. Most of the organisations, which have contributed to the growth of Wahhabi and Ahl-e-Hadith movements in Kashmir, are not registered.

Sources in the Intelligence Bureau admit that they are aware of the large-scale illegal funding, but add that they cannot do much due to the sensitive internal situation. "We have taken up the issue several times with the state police but nobody wants to get into it. It suits them to ignore it," claim sources.

Scarf-clad students at the Salafia Muslim Institute in Srinagar.
Scarf-clad students at the Salafia Muslim Institute in Srinagar.

Admitting massive cash inflows to the Valley, a senior state police officer says that the bulk of the illegal funds meant for Wahhabi groups and other hardline factions are physically transferred across the Line of Control and and at the trading station in Uri in the form of hard currency-both real and fake Indian currency notes-taking advantage of the barter trade being permitted between J&K and Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir. "Checks by customs officers are at best cursory. There are no X-ray machines and other standard international border control equipment. The army merely observes the goings-on," he says. The officer adds that it is impossible to quantify the smuggled funds and that no agency-Central or state-has made any effort to do so.

What concerns police and intelligence officials more is the possibility of Lashkar-e-Toiba and Tehreek-ul-Mujahideen militants relying on Ahl-e-Hadith members to provide them hideouts. "Indoctrinated Wahhabis are the least likely to turn in Islamist militants to the police," says a senior intelligence official.

"A knee-jerk response could be dangerous. The organisation is doing a lot of good work and has a considerable following."
Mehbooba Mufti, People's Democratic Party chief


Scarcely visible a decade and a half ago, Ahl-e-Hadith now claims over 15 lakh members, over 16 per cent of Jammu and Kashmir's Muslims. Besides the 700 mosques and madrassas it built, Ahl-e-Hadith is believed to have funded 150 schools, several colleges, orphanages, clinics and medical diagnostic centres. It has also proposed a Rs 200-crore Islamic university, Transworld Muslim University (TWMU), in Hyderpora, Srinagar, affiliated to leading Saudi institutions. The proposal was referred to a select committee after state Congress chief Saifuddin Soz opposed it in the Legislative Council on October 9, 2010.

TWMU is planned as a multi-disciplinary institution with a stated mission to "facilitate a new generation of leaders in medicine, science, technology and religion based on the Shariahâ". Ahl-e-Hadith is already engaged in setting up key faculties within its existing institutions across Srinagar. Accepting responsibility for halting the proposal, Soz was reticent about his reasons for refusing permission, since the proposal was cleared in February 2008 by then Congress Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad. Official sources claimed it was blocked, following intervention by J&K Governor N.N. Vohra on the advice of security agencies. Both the ruling National Conference and the Opposition People's Democratic Party (PDP) had supported the bill. PDP head Mehbooba Mufti cautions that any decision to scuttle the university must be preceded by a thorough investigation into Ahl-e-Hadith's sources of finance. "A knee-jerk response could be dangerous. After all, the organisation is doing a lot of good work and has a considerable following," she says.

PURISTS ON THE PROWL

Wahhabi codes run counter to the age-old Sufi tradition.

Wahhabis forbid invoking names of prophets or 'pirs'; Shrines are viewed as 'deviant' and forbidden.
Stringent dress codes are prescribed for both men and women. Men must grow beards, wear a prayer cap and keep trousers just above their ankels; women must observe purdah.
Music and dance, even loud laughter and demonstrative weeping at funerals, is actively discouraged.
Alcohol, tobacco and other stimulants are prohibited.
Women are dissuaded from working except where their families are in financial distress.
Gender segregation is actively enforced. Men and women are discouraged from socialising in public forums.

The organisation's rapid proliferation and increasing popularity among youth is making Kashmir's predominantly Sufi-Hanafi community anxious. "Opportunities for better education and secure future draw young Kashmiris for whom Ahl-e-Hadith represents a new, untested alternative," says CPI(M) legislator Mohammad Yousuf Tarigami. The conservative Jamaat-e-Islami, too, is nervous at the prospect of ceding political ground. Ahl-e-Hadith's feisty General Secretary Abdul Rehman Bhat, 65, insists, "Delhi is unwittingly playing into the hands of separatists like Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who are opposed to our university." Hurriyat leaders Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq belatedly voiced support for the university in a joint statement in November. Non-committal on the Wahhabi proliferation, Geelani says the greatest threat to Kashmiriyat is from "the occupation forces deployed by India". But Tarigami says Ahl-e-Hadith is contrary to the Jamaat's ideological framework: "The Jamaat- e-Islami leadership perceives a dilution in their own brand value."

The Jammu and Kashmir Peace Foundation (JKPF), a Hanafi organisation devoted to reviving historic Sufi shrines, believes that a sinister process of "fundamentalist indoctrination" is under way in Wahhabi madrassas and schools. Based on a district-wise count, JKPF's Chairman Fayaz Ahmad Bhatt, 40, says nearly 7,000 mosques, including 911 in Srinagar, preach the orthodox Wahhabi brand of Islam. Kashmir's non-Muslim minority, too, views the Wahhabi ingress as a "conspiracy to Talibanise Kashmir". "The Taliban had also sprung from Pakistani madrassas funded by the Wahhabis," says former Kashmir University professor Kashi Nath Pandita.

Ahl-e-Hadith leaders vigorously deny all links to Islamist extremist groups. "We are more liberal than those that criticise us," says Bhat. He points out that former Ahl-e-Hadith president Maulana Showkat Ahmad Shah was assassinated by Tehreek-ul-Mujahideen militants outside a mosque in Srinagar's Maisuma locality on April 8 because he opposed extremism.

Bhat talks about the Ahl-e-Hadith-run English coaching institute for adolescent girls just above his Barbarshah, Srinagar, office and the diagnostic facility and pharmacy on the floor below that offers services at concessional rates. "No one is turned away, not even CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) jawans,: he says. He also points to the Salafia Muslim Institute, the co-educational school with 800 children on Srinagar's airport road in Parraypora. "We get strict about scarves for girls only after Class VI," says Principal Mufti Altaf. Students are segregated by gender after Class II.

Ahl-e-Hadith has two registered charities that are eligible to receive foreign funding under FCRA. But the organisation denies receiving any Saudi money after 1996. Bhat, however, admits there are grants and scholarships for students to go for studies in Jeddah. He claims that the money spent on building new mosques and schools is raised via zakat. The total annual collection from all 700 mosques Ahl-e-Hadith claims to run across the state is around Rs 2.5 crore. Even if one were to accept Bhat's claim that it costs them only Rs 10 lakh to build a new mosque, the organisation would have ended up spending much more in building the 350 new mosques it has since 2004 than what it gathered through zakat.

Mehbooba is not overly worried about the Wahhabis because she believes Kashmiris would never surrender their inherent freedom so easily. "Sufism is not merely a religious belief but a way of life. Women here did not take to the burqa even when militancy was at its peak," she says. Her confidence is cold comfort, given the rapid growth of the Ahl-e-Hadith's influence.


http://nation.com.pk/international/29-J ... -wikileaks

http://www.oneindia.com/india/wikileaks ... 87820.html

bharotshontan
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby bharotshontan » 18 Apr 2017 17:39

What is the guarantee that Kashmir Valley demographics can naturally be overturned even after Article 370 is removed? What Hindu family will willingly put themselves in a peaceful majority area? We do palayan from neighborhoods of cities that turn Muslim, forget an entire part of a state. Unless overturning the 370 is followed through with something akin to how Israel puts orthodox Jewish settlers armed to the teeth in the middle of Gaza.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 18:10

Yes, you have to use some variation of Israeli methods. But the idea is to wear them out first.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 18:15

Supratik wrote:Nope it is a constitutional amendment, hence 2/3. Even for simple majority you need majority in RS. Till then have to wait.

Like I said, NOT so according to Subrahmaniam Swamy, whose bibi happens 2 b a Supreme Adalat Advocate onlee. I tend to believe her if not him on the subject. IIRC, the argument is that it is a special something stuck into the Constitution, not part of the core phundamental rites etc.
Same with any objection to Uniform Civil Code.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 18:18

What Hindu family will willingly put themselves in a peaceful majority area?

A gradual, well-planned expansion from Jammu. Also, a protected, walled concentration around places such as Anantnag and other pilgrimage places, and expansion from there.
There has to be a concurrent expulsion/ emigration of a large percentage of the momeen. To TSP, Gelf, Norway/Sweden, UK, Canada and Germany :P
Australia seems disinclined to accept those who don't adopt kangaroostani traditions.
Maybe Xinjiang and Uzbekistan will welcome them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby bharotshontan » 18 Apr 2017 18:23

IMHO the battle in Valley wrt KM is symptom of our larger civilization fight against ROP. There can be no winning of "hearts and minds" via "development" as long as they remain ROP. As a poster has already posted here, the decade os 2000s saw tourism revive the economy as peace returned after IA put down the 90s militancy, but all it did was empower the current generation to launch full scale jihad against us again. I believe the same wrt Pak as well. There can be no peace with Pak if they are not economically crushed as any economic upliftment of ROPers only means a renewed pipeline into jihad.
So we need to repeat what we did in the 90s again, crush their militancy physically and allow the violence to take its toll on the valley economically. But then after that phase, no more doles to the valley. In the US for a long time whites used to do "white flight" similar to Hindu palayan, but recently this has started in the opposite way. Once the blacks drive the inner cities into crime dumps, young hipster whites are coming in with parents money buying up old decreipt properties, fixing them up and pricing out the criminals in what is called gentrification. Similar can be done in valley whereby these KM thugs instead of being rewarded for their thuggery via doles, they instead get priced out of real estate in Srinagar and then sooner throughout villages in valley.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 18:29

It may be Swami's view but haven't heard it is so easy elsewhere. Even if he were right you will need RS majority.

With some incentive many ex-servicemen, ex-police will settle. As UB said it may start from jammu division and then expand.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 18 Apr 2017 20:55

The stone throwers are on hire.
What is the possibility that some netas ensured low voter turnout in some areas, and allowed voitng in some others so that they could win elections here?

I notice that Abdulla saab's political fortune has taken an uptick, he was even interviewed by a Paki TV program via phone.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 18 Apr 2017 20:58

370 abrogation has to be confirmed/recommended by the state legislature also no?
That was introduced by Chacha to prevent it from being abrogated by the parliament.

Chacha literally rammed 370 down the country's throat, despite near universal opposition to it - maybe edwina whispered something into his ears. So chacha did his false expressions of anger (the same nautanki one sees Farookh Abdulla doing all the time) and silenced everyone.

Abrogating 370 is not easy - From Wiki
However, in October 2015, the High Court of Jammu and Kashmir has ruled that the Article 370 cannot be "abrogated, repealed or even amended." It explained that the clause (3) of the Article conferred power to the State's Constituent Assembly to recommend to the President on the matter of the repeal of the Article. Since the Constituent Assembly did not make such a recommendation before its dissolution in 1957, the Article 370 has taken on the features of a "permanent provision" despite being titled a temporary provision in the Constitution

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 21:18

I think the matter is in SC. SC can over ride J&K court.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Apr 2017 21:40

Or 370 can be "ignored widely" with the polis turning the other way. Given the awesome speed of the judiciary OUTSIDE J&K (note: in some things the J&K judiciary acts with lightning speed, see Madhu Kishwar "libel" non-bailable warrant) land-grab cases can be dealt with on the same timetable as the Ayodhya case.

I don't prefer this solution as it leads to anarchy and hurts the law-abiding, but perhaps it can be done very carefully.
I mean, the Constitution also says that people have a Right To Life. Freedom of Movement. Freedom to settle anywhere in the country. Why are these denied so routinely to the rest of the population by the KMjehad types, and they want WHAT under 370???

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 22:04

According to this article it can be done but it is complex.

http://www.news18.com/news/india/abroga ... 90866.html

According to this article it requires 2/3

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 405797.cms

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Gagan » 18 Apr 2017 22:51

Amending constitution articles needs 2/3
But in 370's case it needs state assembly to also do simple majority / 2/3 not clear - this is a very unique provision.

I was reading a book on J&K, where Chacha's shenanigans are mentioned in some detail. Also why he asked for a premature cease fire in '48
1. Because the shias around Mirpur would have diluted Sheikh Abdulla's vote bank,
2. The Brits needed Gilgit town, as they had a listening post to keep tabs on the Soviet Union. The brits would receive people travelling from the Soviet Union in Gilgit, traders and other spies would come down to Gilgit town.

The Pakistani army was in full retreat, having been pushed back from Kargil to Skardu. The IA would have gone from Kargil to Skardu to Gilgit. But Chacha stopped the IA at Kargil itself, making an excuse that he was going to the UN !!! Both Sheikh Abdulla and Edwina / Brits were playing with Chacha, and he did this with eyes wide open. His other goof up was not listening to Dr Homi Bhaba and go nuclear in time - India is still paying for Chacha's foolhardiness.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Supratik » 18 Apr 2017 22:58

State assembly may be by passed by parliament amendment.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Apr 2017 23:19

J&K can be trifurcated.

Jammu majority Hindu.
Leh majority Bhuddist.
Kashmir valley majority Muslim. The valley would be a Union Territory under central rule.


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