J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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ramana
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 18 Jul 2019 00:20

No takers!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby vijayk » 18 Jul 2019 03:30

disha wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Ramana guru, this most be welcomed, but I'm sure you know better that these snakes need to be defanged Rather than tamed. That's happening thru, the j&k bank takeover and Nia raids, ... Perhaps Getting electronic payment mandatory would help


And that's where the new teeth for NIA comes in place. Stone pelters is outcome of Hawala trade, human trafficking, cyber terrorism and plain old goondaism. At this point the smarter crooks will try to fold business and get out of it cutting their losses. For Abdullah and Saeed clan, that is the best possible outcome. Just gently and slowly fade away into sunset. One can look at the tweets from Omar and they are as gentle as a lamb nowadays.


Does it mean he lost control of his harem girls like Nidhi? She is quiet also now a days. Amit Shah seems to have quietened Kashmiri crooks and their terrorist enablers in Delhi

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby vijayk » 18 Jul 2019 03:33

ramana wrote:You folks are all software gurus.
As a hobby should learn to apply complex systems theory to Kashmir networks .
See the nodes and how they interact.
instead we get all hot and post what abouts!

I will give you some thing to start with.
Systems are linear or complex.
Systems are loosely coupled or tightly coupled.
What does this mean?
loosely coupled means changes in one area don't effect other areas. There are buffers to absorb shock.
tightly coupled means changes in one area will impact other areas significantly. No buffers to absorb shocks.
analysis:

J&K under NC (state)-INC (center) partnership was a linear loosely coupled system. Doing something didn't effect anybody. So Sheikh got a lot of things in his favor passed by dotard Nehru without Lok Sabha assent. However Sheikh got greedy and started seeing Swiss status for his own fiefdom with US help. Now complexity enters. But still loosely coupled. Sheik gets kicked out and imprisoned. Now US decides to play Pak card after China attack in 1962. Now Kashmir becomes complex and closely coupled.

1965 War reduces complexity with defeat of Ayub's plans. No change to complex coupling.
1971 War reduces a lot of complexity and slightly loosens the coupling. This gives peace for ~20 years.
In the meantime Bindranwala, IPKF, and sudden collapse of FSU all make it closely coupled. Rise of PDP. Kashmiri terrorism. Hurrirats.
Then comes the Kashmir jihad during the 1990s to 2004.
System becomes complex and closely coupled.
PVNR economic reforms and defeat of the first phase of Kashmir jihad makes it linear and loosely coupled.
The coming of UPA decade makes it complex again and closely coupled.

What 2014 elections did was reduce complexity by marginalizing NC and INC in Kashmir.
It still closely coupled.
2019 elections further reduced the complexity with defeat of PDP.


Now draw this and bring back.


Hope once RS majority comes and 370/35A are removed, it will become more linear and loosely coupled.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 18 Jul 2019 07:22

Yes and no.

Integrating Kashmir with India makes it linear but tight coupled with India.
It will allow free movement of Indians which is a mark of tight coupling.

Think of how in US one can move from Florida to Alaska and Hawaii.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby disha » 18 Jul 2019 07:24

ramana wrote:No takers!


It is not that. I was applying Cashmere to "Complex Adaptive System" (CAS). In effect we all are part of multiple complex adaptive systems, some lose coupled and some tight coupled. And some of this complex adaptive systems are connected as well. In essence we are all part of a "Super and Supra Complex Adaptive System". The nodes in the CAS have inherent influence impact on a scale (low to high) and are further have a scale of being impacted (high to low). Some nodes are "insurance" or "shield" nodes. They may have inherently zero impact and are just lazing around but at some point they influence an outcome or influence other nodes.

In case of cashmere, the "Complex adaptive system" is tightly coupled. You have nodes of CAS like Hurriyat, Hurriyat's mamma (Robin Raphael/Clintonites, US SD), Hurriyat's Abbus (UK and Bakistan), Abdullah and Abdullah's amma and abba (CONgoons), Saeeds and Saeeds abba and ammas (CONgoons again), ISI and its piglets (terrorists), momeens, the stone pelter brigade, the mediapimps, the security and the legislative morass.

That is why the rise of Orange dampens Hurriyats to a great deal since its mamma is fighting a different battle. Hence weakening Hurriyat's mamma is a strategic advantage, however rise of Orange might be a tactical disadvantage (tempestuous behaviour). Weakening of Hurriyat's Abbus also puts Hurriyat on a back foot. However the whine of Cashmere is not for 3rd party negotiation only is when Hurriyat's mamma and abbus are strong.

Given that, it is a straightforward calculation of what needs to be strengthened and what needs to be weakened for this complex adaptive system to behave differently.

So security needs to be strong. Legislative morass needs to be cleared (clear article 35A/370 etc), choke the hawala trade (stone pelter brigade/terrorism) etc.

However influencing each node in the complex adaptive system will impact other nodes in a different CAS. For example to solve the legislative morass, one needs numbers in LS and RS, however getting numbers in LS and RS is not like going to bazar and buying a set of MPs. :) . It will impact a different CAS and that CAS will behave differently and it may impact some other CAS.

For example, allowing the Goa MLAs to join BJP impacted some supporters of BJP who went out with the statement "not my party" and went into NOTA mode. Maybe that node does not have a high influence impact (its influence is low) and can be managed. So it can be a calculated risk for the larger CAS or other CAS where RS numbers is a factor and has high influence.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 19 Jul 2019 01:56

Good thinking.
You are drawing a word picture of Systems Dynamics model showing all the interactions.

I hope people start thinking in such terms and not propose simplistic solutions to complex problem.

One step above this is to visualize how to fix these sub-systems and then see the interaction with the bigger system.

As an aside NOTA was negated with measure that reduced the impact.
Thats all I will say.

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J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Peregrine » 20 Jul 2019 18:44

Kashmir issue will be resolved soon: Rajnath Singh | India News - Times of India

JAMMU: Defence minister Rajnath Singh said on Saturday the Kashmir issue would be resolved soon and no power on earth could stop the final resolution.

Addressing a meeting after inaugurating a bridge on the river Ujh in the Kathua district, Singh said, "I am saying this with all responsibility that the Kashmir issue will be resolved soon. I am sure of your (people) support."

The minister said he had invited for talks several times the people who claim to be fighting for the resolution of Kashmir problem. "They didn't come forward. They have sent their children outside for education, and are forcing 12-14 years children to pelt stones".

"What kind of Azadi do they have in mind? Do they want the type of Azadi Pakistan has. Let me tell you (separatists) whether you talk or not, Kashmir issue will be resolved soon", Singh said.

He urged people to stay united and work for personal and the country's betterment. "You have many opportunities. You can join the defence forces. You can excel in sports. There is no limit to opportunities to the people of Jammu and Kashmir" , he said.

At 1,000 metres, the bridge on the river Ujh is the longest in the state constructed by the Border Roads Organisation (BRO).

The minister also paid tribute at the Kargil war memorial in Drass on the 20th anniversary of Kargil victory. He also interacted with soldiers. Union Minister of State (PMO) Jitendra Singh and chief of Army Staff General Bipin Rawat accompanied Singh during his visit.

The defence minister is on a day-long visit to the state.

CheersImage

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shyamd » 20 Jul 2019 22:28

shyamd wrote:
shyamd wrote:All these events are nothing new for J&K. Hurriyats play both sides - how many ex-GOI official testimonies have confirmed this?

The only new phenomenon is Zakir Musa gang or what is now called Ansar something or the other - who was vocally berating TSPA/ISI, he said "ISI and Pak Army is only interested in land, not jihad". This triggered defections among the regular TSPA/ISI backed rank & file (LeT, HuM etc). Just in last few days, you had one chap who told HuM he wants to defect - HuM said give back your gun, he then was shot dead by HuM when he came to return the weapon.

Further, I suspect ZM gang was tipping off locations of HuM/LeT individuals. HuM/LeT vacuum will get filled by ZM gang, so were the clear benefactors. This led to counter tipping off against ZM gang. Does anyone seriously think some member of the TSP public is going to ring up Indian Embassy in ISB to give specific tip off about ZM activity?

All this just shows that TSP is still trying to keep grip of matters in J&K. As we saw, TSPA has been escalating by passing on armoured piercing bullets into the valley. TSP attention is focused on US-Iran crisis, plus all this FATF/economic issues - expect this year to be a quiet one (but doesn't mean the pot is not being stirred).

As for the 5+ TSPA soldiers who died. GOI is not fooled by what's going on in J&K as well as across the LoC. We are all hearing regular news of covert action that has been initiated post Balakot.


Head of Hizbul made statement today. He took a sharp dig at Ansar Ghazwat-ul-Hind (AGH) for encouraging militants to defect along with their weapons & terms these defections a fitna). The Hizb commander appears troubled by the criticism of his & other pro-Pakistan groups by AGH and IS :lol:

There are accusations that HuM helped Indian army bump off Burhan Wani and some of his gang. TSP is ensuring it has supremacy over the criminal gangs operating in J&K.

The big question is - is ISI playing a game with AQ chief's statement and bumping off several rank & file.... Do they see bigger opportunity with fresher recruits?

Also, someone in the know asks - Is ISI behind the Hurriyat agreeing to talks?

These are the questions GOI security officials will be grappling with.


Update on GOI intel estimates.
Blacklist fear forces Pakistan to shut 20 terror camps in PoK
Top intelligence sources told The Indian Express that their inputs suggest shutting down of 20 terror camps from where Pakistan was sending militants across to Kashmir.

Reconnaisance, intel and IMINT suggests...

According to sources, the biggest evidence of change in Pakistan on terror camps is the fact that there have been “no reports of infiltration and cross-border action on the LoC”. This is the first time in nearly three decades of militancy in Kashmir that cross-LoC infiltration has come to an absolute halt. Sources also contend that this is bound to have a major impact on the militancy in Kashmir where security forces continue to conduct intensive counter-terrorist operations.

Official documents reviewed by The Indian Express, however, display a certain hesitation in seeing this change from Pakistan as a “permanent change of heart”. An official note on the situation in Kashmir states upfront that there are “some inputs regarding activation of launch pads along the LoC”. It further analyses that “inputs regarding presence of terrorists in launch pads indicate Pakistan’s design to attempt infiltration/ trans-LoC operations”.

They have identified a total of 28 launch pads run by Pakistan across the LoC, both north and south of Pir Panjal ranges, from where infiltration attempts could still be made by Pakistan. Depending on the weather and the snowfall, the period from May to October is seen as conducive for infiltration of militants on the LoC.

Sources said the declining intensity of ceasefire violations on the LoC also points to the changed status of activity from the Pakistan side. “Pakistan seeks a de-escalation along the LoC,” sources assert and that is reflected in the calibre of weapons that are being used in ceasefire violations.

On July 9, The Indian Express reported that of the 181 ceasefire violations on the LoC in June, 175 involved small arms firing. There were only six instances of calibre escalation, all of them south of Pir Panjal ranges and the Indian side suffered one fatal casualty in the action.

Overall, security forces have had 71 fatal casualties and 115 non-fatal casualties in Kashmir this year. Out of 71 dead, there are 15 Army men, 48 troopers of the CAPF and eight J&K policemen.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 21 Jul 2019 02:13

Peregrine wrote:Kashmir issue will be resolved soon: Rajnath Singh | India News - Times of India

JAMMU: Defence minister Rajnath Singh said on Saturday the Kashmir issue would be resolved soon and no power on earth could stop the final resolution.



This sounds like AdvaniJi's boast a during NDA1 time that 'terror is on its last legs'. Is RajnathJi joking, or is he taking us to be fools, or is there some strategy behind his statement?

As we speak, TSP is scheming and laughing its ass off to the bank. Some observations from my vantage point:

1. Taliban Khan will be enjoying Trump bahadur's hospitality, and for sure more goodies coming TSP way including FATF reprieve

2. USA is playing a cruel joke with India claiming that TSP has 'arrested' Hafeez pig when all he is given is 5-star treatment in some resort with lotsa Kashmir Muslim boys and girls and goats entertaining him (after all they consider him their God father).

3. While India is gloating on ICJ 'victory', TSP is also gloating. And from their vantage point, they 'won' because ICJ did not ask Jadhav to be returned to India which was India's maximal demand from the trial. So Taliban Khan will claim equal equal on terror citing ICJ ruling. And in this, he will have lot of support from the racists in GOTUS, for whom India TSP equal equal is etched in their dense heads.

4. I also expect TSP to undertake some tactical move by playing on Hindu Sikh fault lines along the lines of the Kartarpur drama they enacted earlier.

5. With all these cosmetic moves, TSP's 5th columns and fan club in India is waiting for an opportunity to scream 'resume talks' with wink win nod nod from the Uncle and his big boy side kicks. And if as I expect, the headlines are good post Taliban Khan Trump love fest, you can be rest assured DDM will be piling it on ModiJi for claiming to 'isolate' TSP and so India must join the 'international community' in feting TSP.

So if by 'resolution', Rajnath Singh means an MMS/Sonia like abject surrender couched in the language of 'secularism' through 4-point formula involving 'joint sovereignty' over the valley, I am not sure what exactly he means.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Anujan » 21 Jul 2019 12:50

Between 1st of July at 9:43pm and 3rd of July at 11:12am, there was no infiltration attempt from Pakistan.

Track-2 participants view this as a positive development from Pakistan and urged the Modi government to reciprocate. Further, the peace constituency from both sides argued that Pakistan has had a permanent change of heart and should be removed from the FATF blacklist.

At 11:13am on the 3rd of July, 4 infiltrators were pushed in under the cover of small caliber fire from Pakistani posts, however it could not be ascertained if they were active military personnel acting under orders or retired, rogue army soldiers. In any case, confidence building measures from India, which needs to show a large heart being the bigger brother in south asia is the key.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Mollick.R » 27 Jul 2019 16:56

Top JeM commander from Pakistan killed in Kashmir encounter
Munna Lahori, also known as Bihari, had been used by the JeM terror group for recruitment, a police official said.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india/top-jem-commander-from-pakistan-killed-in-kashmir-encounter-4254661.html

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Mollick.R » 27 Jul 2019 17:32

Centre rushes 10,000 troops to Kashmir
Agencies | Updated: Jul 27, 2019, 15:31 IST

NEW DELHI: The Centre has ordered rushing of about 10,000 central forces personnel to the Kashmir valley in order to strengthen counter-insurgency operations and law and order duties there, officials said Saturday.


They said the Union home ministry has ordered the deployment of 100 companies of the Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs) on July 25 on an "immediate" basis.

Officials said that 100 more companies are expected to be sent to the valley.

One CAPF company comprises about 100 personnel.
..
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. (BS by Mufti....)
.
.
The latest units will be drawn from the CRPF (50 companies), SSB (30) and ITBP and BSF will contribute 10 each, they said.

The ministry has said that these personnel will be deployed to strengthen the counter-insurgency grid and law and order duties in the Kashmir Valley, they said.

They are being air lifted and sent by trains, officials said.

It is understood that the new units will reinforce the strength of the security forces already present in the valley who are conducting the annual Amarnath Yatra and carrying out counter-terrorism operations daily, they added.


The troops will be addition to about 65 regular battalions of the Central Reserve Police Force in the valley and over 20 other battalions of other forces deployed to conduct the yatra that will end on August 15.

One CAPF battalion has about 1,000 personnel.


The new strength of the troops will also help in the conduct of the assembly polls in the state that are expected to be held in some time, they said.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/centre-rushes-10000-troops-to-kashmir/articleshowprint/70408051.cms

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2019 17:37

https://www.wionews.com/india-news/cent ... sit-238763
Centre moves 10,000 troops to Jammu and Kashmir after Ajit Doval's visit
In a move to strengthen anti-terrorist operations, the Government of India has decided to move over 10,000 troops to Jammu and Kashmir.
The state already has a deployment of over 40,000 paramilitary personnel.
The announcement comes after National Security Adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval returned from two-day visit to the valley.
At least 100 companies of Indian paramilitary forces will be deployed to the valley to be precise, report said.
This comes in addition to the 40,000 troops that are already stationed in the valley for Amarnath Yatra security.
....
Gautam
PS a lot of speculations in You Tube on this topic.

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J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Peregrine » 27 Jul 2019 17:55

In 20 years, Kargil goes from battle zone to tourism hub -Ajay Sura – TNN

KARGIL: Millions of Indians got a glimpse of the pristine beauty of Kargil, the battle zone of the 1999 conflict, for the first time when they saw flashes on TV of the military pushing back infiltrators. India's first televised conflict left people riveted not just by the Army's triumph but also the untouched beauty of Kargil. The nondescript, sleepy town has now become a vibrant tourism destination.

In 2000, a year after the conflict, the battle-torn town hosted just over 300 tourists. However, in The 1999 conflict created curiosity about Kargil and paved the way for a flood of tourists to the once nondescript, sleepy town. However in 2018, the number of tourists had increased to around one lakh, a trend best described as curiosity piqued by the conflict.

Kargil has always been a quiet town. It once served as an important transit point in the pan-Asian Silk Route trade network, reminiscences of which attract tourists. But all who come to this town make it a point to visit the Kargil War Memorial, almost 60km from the town, as "a call of duty".

Besides the conflict zone and the Line of Control, tourists also go to the nearby Suru Valley for mountaineering / trekking, the Kun peaks, and Zanskar Valley.

Till 2004, the number of visitors to Kargil increased at a very slow pace, but thereafter they witnessed a huge surge. In 2017, the number reached around 64,000. The data, however, shows that the number of foreigners has decreased over the years.

"Actually the 1999 conflict gave Kargil a new identity and tourists started visiting here to satisfy their curiosity about the conflict. Their confidence about security grew slowly till 2004 and it was only after that we witnessed a sudden spurt in the number of tourists, " Shabir Hussain, executive engineer, Kargil Development Authority, told TOI.

Seeing the rise in tourist numbers, the Kargil town administration launched an awareness campaign asking locals to develop hotels and guesthouses, said Hussain. "Till 1999, Kargil had only 5-6 hotels. Today we have more than 250 hotels, including some 40 good-quality ones, and guesthouses. We have the potential to attract more tourists and are focusing on developing the infrastructure." The Kargil Master Plan-2032 aims to develop the town as a vibrant and comprehensive liveable town with a tourism base.

This Kargil Vijay Diwas, most of the hotels were booked by tourists from Mumbai, Gujarat, Delhi and other parts of the country. Ankush Sharma, a hotel manager and native of Jammu, said it was because of the sudden growth of the hospitality industry that most of those working as cooks, waiters or in other hospitality sector jobs are mostly from outside the town.

In Video : ‘Battle zone’ Kargil turns into tourism hub

Cheers Image
Last edited by Peregrine on 27 Jul 2019 18:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shyamd » 27 Jul 2019 18:02

Additional 10,000 paramilitary forces being rushed into J&K. Deployment to cover North Kashmir.

Hopefully some good news on Article 370 and 35 due on 15 Aug

Interesting that Ajit Doval paid a covert visit to Srinagar for discussions on security issues. Publicly only there for 4 days but he was there lot earlier.

Rajnath announced what I’ve been saying for long time: TSPA can only fight limited war and needs the terrorists

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2019 18:27

In addition to the removal of 370 and 35, the other speculation is that the center plans to break up Jammu and Kashmir into three parts. This would certainly reduce power of the current Valley politicians. I am sure we will learn more shortly.
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2019 20:27

SjyamD, What covert visit? It was publicly announced.
And why would NSA visit anywhere in India be termed covert?
If it's abroad you might say that.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Guddu » 27 Jul 2019 20:34

ramana wrote:Good thinking.
You are drawing a word picture of Systems Dynamics model showing all the interactions.

I hope people start thinking in such terms and not propose simplistic solutions to complex problem.

One step above this is to visualize how to fix these sub-systems and then see the interaction with the bigger system.

As an aside NOTA was negated with measure that reduced the impact.
Thats all I will say.


To be truly effective, the modelling has to include some input from happenings in the rest of the world, USA, Iran, Pak, Afghanistan, Russia, China. What happens in Kashmir is not based on happenings solely in India.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 27 Jul 2019 20:43

CRamS wrote:This sounds like AdvaniJi's boast a during NDA1 time that 'terror is on its last legs'. Is RajnathJi joking, or is he taking us to be fools, or is there some strategy behind his statement?

As we speak, TSP is scheming and laughing its ass off to the bank. Some observations from my vantage point:

1. Taliban Khan will be enjoying Trump bahadur's hospitality, and for sure more goodies coming TSP way including FATF reprieve

2. USA is playing a cruel joke with India claiming that TSP has 'arrested' Hafeez pig when all he is given is 5-star treatment in some resort with lotsa Kashmir Muslim boys and girls and goats entertaining him (after all they consider him their God father).

3. While India is gloating on ICJ 'victory', TSP is also gloating. And from their vantage point, they 'won' because ICJ did not ask Jadhav to be returned to India which was India's maximal demand from the trial. So Taliban Khan will claim equal equal on terror citing ICJ ruling. And in this, he will have lot of support from the racists in GOTUS, for whom India TSP equal equal is etched in their dense heads.

4. I also expect TSP to undertake some tactical move by playing on Hindu Sikh fault lines along the lines of the Kartarpur drama they enacted earlier.

5. With all these cosmetic moves, TSP's 5th columns and fan club in India is waiting for an opportunity to scream 'resume talks' with wink win nod nod from the Uncle and his big boy side kicks. And if as I expect, the headlines are good post Taliban Khan Trump love fest, you can be rest assured DDM will be piling it on ModiJi for claiming to 'isolate' TSP and so India must join the 'international community' in feting TSP.

So if by 'resolution', Rajnath Singh means an MMS/Sonia like abject surrender couched in the language of 'secularism' through 4-point formula involving 'joint sovereignty' over the valley, I am not sure what exactly he means.

Saw this today ... so here we are.

I hope you are satisfied with Dimran's vizit to DC CRS saaru. BTW, did you get your cherished "Modi-Dimran" talks yet?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shyamd » 28 Jul 2019 01:10

ramana wrote:SjyamD, What covert visit? It was publicly announced.
And why would NSA visit anywhere in India be termed covert?
If it's abroad you might say that.

Because he was already in Srinagar before the publicly announced dates and visit hush hush. He was conducting brainstorming, meetings and planning in a quiet place without glare in Srinagar. Maybe covert is too strong a word

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 28 Jul 2019 10:05

1) Jammu should be amalgamated with punjab 2) Ladhak with himachal 3) kashmir should be a puny UT like entity 4) with ending of yatra, thousands of additional forces will be available post 15th august. 5) i guess something big is happening..cant just be Assembly elections. 6) but wasnt art 35 to be adjudicated in SC? confused or the LS is set to pass some law to abrogate Art 35? gurus please shed some light.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby srin » 28 Jul 2019 10:55

^^^
I heartily agree with 1, 2, 3. Making the valley an UT is a brilliant idea, IMO.

Art 35 should be removed the same way it was created - by executive/ presidential order. Bad idea to let the SC run the govt agenda. It’ll get adjourned for a few decades.

My thought is that any major change to status quo should happen in winter. The capital will be in Jammu and protestors can go freeze their b@ll$ outside for all I care.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 28 Jul 2019 11:25

baba has mentioned

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
@bababanaras
·
Jul 26
Hoping this Independence Day (15 August) will be BIG. Wait for the biggest announcement of decades.


अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
@bababanaras
·
Jul 26
J&K Bank Merger with Kotak Mahindra Bank or SBI

Removal of 35A

Removal of 370

Few good news are coming for our beloved Kashmiri brothers and Sisters within few months.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 28 Jul 2019 11:26

But I really hope they go through presidential or executive order and not like RJB dragging for decades and talking about it during every LS election.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 28 Jul 2019 13:07

confused ..was art 35A under judicial review or art 370?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 28 Jul 2019 13:08

secretive meeting/trip instead of covert !!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 28 Jul 2019 17:59

https://www.thestatesman.com/india/wome ... 83073.html

women refugees want art 35a to be scrapped

Womenfolk in the Jammu region are anxiously waiting for Prime Minister Narendra Modi to fulfil his electoral commitment of repealing the controversial Article 35A that snatches the state’s permanent resident ship of those women who marry outside Jammu and Kashmir.


and
Not only the women, but continuation of the Article is being considered as cruelty also towards the Hindu refugees from West Pakistan who were living here as second-grade citizens for the past 72 years as they have been denied state subject rights by the successive Kashmir-centric governments.

Hope was rekindled among the affected segments of the society when in his campaign here for the 2014 Lok Sabha elections, Modi described the provision as inhumane and counted its demerits. A day later, Arun Jaitley, on the social media, provided with the legal aspects against the provision.

Article 35A was added to the Constitution through a situational Presidential Order on 14 May 1954. It empowers the state legislature to defile the classes of persons who are, or shall be, permanent residents of the State of Jammu and Kashmir; or confer on such permanent residents any special rights and privileges or imposing upon other persons any restrictions.
Reacting to the issue, Manu Khajuria Singh, a London based rights activist belonging to Jammu, said, “Thanks to Article 35A, I—a female permanent resident (PR) of Jammu and Kashmir— am not equal to a male permanent resident (PR).

“I am inferior as I have lesser rights. This arbitrary and illegal interpretation of law effectively — and within minutes of my marriage to a non-state subject — robbed me of my rights and my inheritance. India is a signatory of the United Nations General Assembly’s (UNGA) Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.

“Yet, India has allowed this gross discrimination against women to continue. This discrimination could be the character of Kashmiri leaders. How could this be the character of the entire nation?” she asked.

It has been alleged from time to time that the Kashmiri politicians draw sadistic pleasure by snatching the rights of women marrying outside the state and denying the right of higher education to the wards of West Pakistani refugees and Valmikis.

It is now four generations that these families were continuing to live like refugees.

Labh Ram Gandhi, president of the West Pakistani refugee action committee has been pursuing the matter with the centre and had met Modi twice to draw his attention towards the issue.

These refugees are empowered to vote only for the Lok Sabha elections and not for the state assembly, municipal and Panchayat elections because they have not been granted permanent resident status in J&K. Their children are not entitled to admission in colleges, universities or professional institutions in the state and have to go out in Punjab, Himachal Pradesh or any other nearby state for higher education. They are also not eligible for state government jobs.

These refugees had migrated in 1947 from Sialkot, Lahore and other areas that went to Pakistan during the partition. They have mostly settled in the three districts of Jammu, Samba and Kathua that are along the international border with Pakistan.

Their brethren, who settled elsewhere in the country, do not face any such problem.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 28 Jul 2019 21:59

I wanted to reply to MinhazJi's following tweet, but unfortuntaley my twitter account is locked and under review because I dared to challenge Omar Abdullah's keep in the same language she uses and refused to delete my tweet, but I will do so here:

https://twitter.com/MinhazMerchant/stat ... 8737274881


.@MehboobaMufti says deploying over 10,000 additional troops in #Kashmir will create a “fear psychosis” in the Valley. Rubbish. It’s Pak-sponsored terrorists who evoke fear in the Valley, compelling @adgpi and #CAPF to deploy resources of men & money to counter Pak terror proxies



The reality is that while Mehbooba type separatists in Indian mufti talk a good game about p!ss and such, they do not view Paki terrorists as 'terrorists', rather, they view them as "liberators". And good part of Paki cockiness on J&K comes from this fact. IMO, they (TSP) have sizable support who can be counted on to give aid and succor to the pigLeTs that they dispatch to keep the pot boiling and claim 'dispute'.

Till recently, the 'liberal' in me used to think that only solution is to take the war into TSP and make them pay a price. But I heave realized now that our own KMs are being treated with kid gloves. They seem to reject every reasonable hand of rapprochement that India offers. They want their maximal demand for secession met which is the chorus they sing with TSP when they say "Kashmir is a political problem needing resolution".

Thus, a scotched earth policy, aka Trump style which he formulated for Afghanistan, should be tried. Of course, all and sundry will be screaming 'human rights', but it can't get any worse than the situation now where we are losing soldiers and officers in large #s fighting with their hands tied, and yet we get accused of the worst crimes, in fact equal equal with Paki pigLeTs in 'international eyes'.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 03:40

shyamd wrote:Because he was already in Srinagar before the publicly announced dates and visit hush hush. He was conducting brainstorming, meetings and planning in a quiet place without glare in Srinagar. Maybe covert is too strong a word

It’s now been revealed that GOI has received intel that TSPA has decided to conduct a major terror strike through the usual proxies. Rushing of 10k troops was partly due to this. Security forces (Army, CRPF, JKP et al) have gone on state of alert. NSA’s early visit was also related to the intel

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 29 Jul 2019 04:42

I think thats just a cover story for something else

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 29 Jul 2019 10:10

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu ... kgBKafQuVs


Victims of Article 35A hopeful of ‘decisive steps’ this time
Radhika Gill, 19, a Dalit girl who has challenged the constitutional validity of the provision in the apex court, regretted that politicians were brazenly indulging into “cheap politics” to deprive marginalised sections of the fundamental rights.
“Abrogation of this discriminatory Article is a must to restore dignity and honour of the weaker sections,” Radhika said while reacting to Mehbooba’s warning.
“Instead of looking through a humanitarian angle, the Kashmir-centric parties are issuing threats against ending discrimination with the marginalised and neglected section of society.”

summary of effects of Art 35A
Affected by provision

Over one lakh West Pakistan refugees, a majority of whom are Scheduled Castes and other backward classes living in Jammu since 1947
Valmikis from Punjab living in the Jammu region since 1957 are facing worst slavery due to Article 35A. Deprived of all fundamental rights, highly educated youth of the community are only eligible to be appointed as safai karamcharis
Women who marry outside the state are other victims. Neither husbands of these women nor their children are entitled to get property rights in J&K

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Jul 2019 13:40

hopefully this thread will be interesting to watch in coming 'periods'

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vikas » 29 Jul 2019 17:16

manjgu wrote:1) Jammu should be amalgamated with punjab 2) Ladhak with himachal 3) kashmir should be a puny UT like entity 4) with ending of yatra, thousands of additional forces will be available post 15th august. 5) i guess something big is happening..cant just be Assembly elections. 6) but wasnt art 35 to be adjudicated in SC? confused or the LS is set to pass some law to abrogate Art 35? gurus please shed some light.


The current geographical boundaries of the state of J&K will not be changed for sure, Not till POK is recovered by India.
Tops 35A may go away ( Though I am doubtful about that too) and that's pretty much it. I don't see anything other than announcement of election schedule for J&K. There maybe something for KP's to be announced before 15th Aug.
usually Modi Sarkaar doesn't trigger Important things with loads of fanfare.

Nay on Point#1 and 2. Why should the fate of Jammu and Ladakh now be tied with states with whom they have very little in common. Jammu and Ladakh are bigger than HP and Punjab.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 29 Jul 2019 18:25

Vikas... as u pointed out there are -ves to my idea of amalgamation of Jammu and Ladhak.. the reason i suggest that is these two areas have been given step motherly treatment as part of J&K. i too agree that its not gonna happen.. if repeal of 35A can alter the demography of J&K that will be a very good development.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 18:36

sum wrote:I think thats just a cover story for something else

Apparently 35A et al removal is unlikely as there’s a lot of work that needs to happen before it can be made a reality. Either way we’ll know in few weeks

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Jul 2019 20:24

my two paisa:
1. kashmir should be made UT
2. Jammu and Ladakh should be made states.
On the plus side of the above two
1. These states should be easy to control/govern and changes can be implemented rapidly and development can be accomplished faster. RIght now kashmir gets too much money and doles.
2. We could promote tourism and that would make spur the economy
3. Kashmiris can chose to live in their own version of 'paradise' or nizame mustafa
4. I would also open other geopolitical front to keep stonepelters, OGWs and others to keep themselves busy elsewhere create

On the downside
1. kashmiris have infested everywhere. They will find weak spots in the two other states. to cause terrorism in those areas too. Right now they are happy to burn their homes, but the prosperity in other states also brings in those places more to lose. I know that's a lame excuse. But with other parties pushing them for labor and other works, they will be more desperate to do things there too.
2. Increase costing to indian state to have separate elections and other admin stuff, e.g., offices

Given this govt goes up step by step, the next step to remove 35 a and at max 370 but not trifurcation.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby RajD » 29 Jul 2019 20:46

#Exclusive | Mosques in J&K under Home Ministry lens. All districts asked to provide details of the management of all mosques in the Valley. | Vivek Narayan reads the MHA order. | #KashmirMosqueOrder
https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/115 ... 98400?s=20

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 29 Jul 2019 22:10

Folks I don't want speculation on NSA itenary.
Its what it is due to govt business.
No need to post here.
Thanks.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Jul 2019 22:16

Folks I see kashmir taking outsized airtime. Can you point out news sources for GB or POK or even COK (i understand the challenges). Peregrine ji any sources that i can check on a regular basis?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vivek K » 29 Jul 2019 23:56

Agree with Arjun. Jammu and Ladakh should be separated from Kashmir which itself should be put under President’s rule till such time that Kashmiri Pandits feel safe in returning home.


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