J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Prasad » 02 Aug 2019 16:28

Image

Sachin
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 02 Aug 2019 16:56

^^^ How long was the Amar Nath Yatra to go on? Was it concluding in a few days time? Looks like the Intel inputs are really strong and GoI is planning to put its best efforts to confront the Jehadis.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 02 Aug 2019 16:58

Well, if the source of threat is identified, I hope we do a proactive balakot, may be that's what happening away from media watch right now.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sonugn » 02 Aug 2019 17:04

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/army-says-pakistan-trying-to-disrupt-peace-in-jammu-and-kashmir-1576459-2019-08-02
The Army on Friday said that an M-24 sniper rifle, IEDs and landmines belonging to the Pakistani Army along with a telescope were recovered from a terror cache along the Amarnath route.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Neela » 02 Aug 2019 17:14

Thread

Nitin is one of the nice guys out there.

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 6803307520

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby praksam » 02 Aug 2019 19:14

Some news doing the rounds that Jammu will be made separate state with Kashmir and Ladakh as UT.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 02 Aug 2019 19:39

^^^ Not sure what that will achieve. I am sure under normal circumstances, a move like that for administrative efficiency is warranted, but with TSP-led Muslim secessionist war raging, and the central strategy of TSP is to wrest the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley from India, how is separating Jammu and Laddak going to solve the TSP problem? On the contrary, it will spark off a huge firstrom within India on this 'communal' move by ModiJi, and suddenly all the Paki pasand opposition in India will become 'nationalists' berating ModiJi for helping TSP's agenda of 'communalizing' Kashmir.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vivek K » 02 Aug 2019 19:48

praksam wrote:Some news doing the rounds that Jammu will be made separate state with Kashmir and Ladakh as UT.

That is the way to go.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby KJo » 02 Aug 2019 19:52

praksam wrote:Some news doing the rounds that Jammu will be made separate state with Kashmir and Ladakh as UT.


I hope they are divided as UT's, not states.
Control needs to be from the center, not a Mehbooba type anti-national. Jammu's case may be different though. But KMs will fight about why Jammu gets to be a state while Kashmir is a UT.


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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby devesh » 02 Aug 2019 20:09

Keep the whole state as 1. And abrogate the pernicious articles granting special privileges.
Then wage a long war to change demographics and crush any fantasies of Islamic hegemony.

Separating Kashmir gives impression that we've given up on it. Or that we're accepting defeat that we will never change it. It sends a powerful signal of defeatism. I dont support the "separation" agenda. J&K should remain as 1 state.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby TandavBrahmand » 02 Aug 2019 20:21

For those opposing breaking up of J&K, see this video for some arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T80BcPNcVBc

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sanju » 02 Aug 2019 20:52

Is it the case that bifurcation or 'trifurcation' of the J&K state as it stands, automatically abrogate Article 35A & Article 370?

Is that the route being taken? This would change the laws applying in one go rather than removing 35A and then 370 sequentially.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shravanp » 02 Aug 2019 20:53

devesh wrote:Separating Kashmir gives impression that we've given up on it. Or that we're accepting defeat that we will never change it. It sends a powerful signal of defeatism. I dont support the "separation" agenda. J&K should remain as 1 state.



And for that we have to be absolutely be sure and we have to also have full confidence in ourselves if this (as prerequisite) is indeed achievable or not

devesh wrote:Then wage a long war to change demographics and crush any fantasies of Islamic hegemony.


I haven't seen that happening nor I am quite optimist about it.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 02 Aug 2019 21:08

CRamS wrote:^^^ Not sure what that will achieve. I am sure under normal circumstances, a move like that for administrative efficiency is warranted, but with TSP-led Muslim secessionist war raging, and the central strategy of TSP is to wrest the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley from India, how is separating Jammu and Laddak going to solve the TSP problem?
Who is trying to solve the TSP problem? I was under the impression that we are trying to solve Kashmir problem.

On the highlighted part, they way you are going we will not need Trump or TSP or Hurr-rats to insert TSP into Kashmir when you are yourself advocating their position! This is all the more astounding in the light of your recent "o-baba o-mama" on Trumpanzee's latest.

I get that you don't like Modi BUT is it necessary to do a CON (i.e. to say the way CON don't refrain from bringing Indian down a notch or two just to spite Modi) on India?
CRamS wrote:On the contrary, it will spark off a huge firstrom within India on this 'communal' move by ModiJi, and suddenly all the Paki pasand opposition in India will become 'nationalists' berating ModiJi for helping TSP's agenda of 'communalizing' Kashmir.
Tell us something that will not "spark off a huge firstrom within India"? BTW, Insta 3T too sparked similar "communal" meme abt Mudi/BJP within Indian. Bhat to do?
Last edited by pankajs on 02 Aug 2019 21:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sudeepj » 02 Aug 2019 21:22

Nobody can blame this govt. for leaking information..
https://publish.twitter.com/?query=http ... dget=Tweet
Omar Abdullah says: "I have so many questions & not a single answer. I’ve met people today who occupy important positions to do with J&K, not one of them was able to tell me anything and I’ve been CM for 6 years. Imagine the plight of your everyday Kashmiri who doesn’t know what to believe."


I didnt believe there was a possibility of 35A repeal till official BJP spokespersons denied it was on the agenda. :rotfl:

Having said that, 35A/370 issue may be a deliberate distraction by the govt. to actually do something else. Here are some possibilities..

1. If PakMil sees what they think is an opening, they will ALWAYS strike. In their minds, the recent Trump comments, also conveyed by Pompeo creates an opening.
Dr Jaishankar tweeted this morning:
"Have conveyed to American counterpart @SecPompeo this morning in clear terms that any discussion on Kashmir, if at all warranted, will only be with Pakistan and only bilaterally."

There may be intelligence about an impending terror spectacular - perhaps even a chemical weapons strike by PakMil in mufti. And therefore there is a corresponding build up. Mr Gokhale speculates along these lines:
https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 1479001089
Soon after the Trump-Imran meeting in the White House and Pakistan COAS Bajwa’s meetings in the Pentagon, Indian Intelligence started picking up a lot of chatter about possible Pulwama-type attack in the Valley and ‘lighting up,’ of the LoC. Why would Pakistan do it? GHQ in Rawalpindi perhaps felt that a spectacular, headline-grabbing strike would force a hard Indian response—a la Balakot or post-Uri surgical strike—with an inbuilt escalation potential, instantly inviting American intervention. In anticipation of a reckless attack in J&K, the Centre, as a precautionary measure, moved additional central armed police forces last week to plug the gaps in the security grid. Moreover, additional forces were needed to secure vital installations before 15 August.


2. Another possibility is that the banned Jamaat E Islami may be planning an civilian attack from Mosques after Friday prayers. The mobilization reports of CAPF, questions about riot control equipment, but no corresponding reports about Army say that this may be a very real possibility. On the other hand, its possible that Army is also moving, but Army movements dont leak! :-)

3. The third possibility is that we are going to 'rationalize' the LoC and heat it up because we anticipate great levels of infiltration and violence from PakMil subsequent to the rim job Imran performed on the rump. Paks are committed on their Western border to allow the US to withdraw.. The US broke its promise to us to rein in Pak.. Therefore we are free from commitments made to the US about facilitating their withdrawal by keeping LoC more or less quiet. This would be aggressive maneuvering from the Indian side and I must say, I like it very much! When the US executive does not care about Indian interests, purportedly an ally.. Then why should we care about making a presidential campaign successful or a failure!

4. The fourth possibility is a new delimitation being declared with Jammu & Ladakh getting their rightful share in the J&K Assembly. The 35A/370 repeal comes after we have a representative assembly in place to pass the appropriate laws.

5. Fifth possibility is trifurcation of the state. I feel, the possibility for this is lower than others..

6. The sixth possibility of course is 35A/370 to be repealed. Of these, 35A is the virulent part.. 370 allows the Indian govt. to pass laws for Kashmir, so that may go or may be retained.

Currently in wait and watch mode. Dushmano ka yeh dar, achha lagta hai!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby pankajs » 02 Aug 2019 21:31

^^
I don't know if the reports are true BUT the extra IAF sorties news was interesting.

One doesn't need IAF cover for delimitation or trifurcation or elections or 35A/370. It can only imply border or cross-border defensive/offensive activities.

OTOH, border/cross-border action doesn't need such huge deployment in the hinterland especially when GOI/Army have stated that 95% terrorist have been neutralized in the past 1-2 years.

This is an interesting setup which makes no sense based on wherever little is know. Seems like GOI is preparing for terror strike in the hinterland around Independence day and the IAF has been mobilized as a warning to Bakis to be ready for a repeat of Balakot should anything untoward occur.

Whatever it is, I am assured that GOI is doing its best.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby schinnas » 02 Aug 2019 22:08

I guess it's pro active measures based on credible Intel and also sending out some stern messages to Pak. The call to cut short Amarnath yatra and detection of landmines and sniper rifles give credence to the supposed Intel inputs.

They will also serve as justifiable cause to launch preemtptive strikes as these have Paki army markings.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 02 Aug 2019 22:15

pankajs, too many words in your response. Tough to understand. I am not advocating any Trump mediation. I think separating Jammu is a bad idea. And even if at some point in the future , trifurcation, can be thought of, at this point, there will be huge opposition to it within India. Now what part of this do you disagree with?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sudeepj » 02 Aug 2019 22:16

https://twitter.com/Aakashhassan/status/1157319720032337920

"Big breaking

@MehboobaMufti
not being allowed to move out of her residence.
She wanted to meet Farooq Abdullah .
@news18dotcom"


https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1157330705732513794
Rumours being spread about House arrest of Mehbooba Mufti. Please don’t believe it or circulate. Mufti after her press conference in Srinagar went to meet Farooq Abdullah at his residence. Now she is meeting Sajad Lone at his residence. Next likely Imran Ansari and Shah Faesal.


Mehbooba under house arrest? Now, I am leaning towards 35A/delimitation/370. If it was LoC adjustment, or terror spectacular.. she wouldnt be under house arrest.
Last edited by sudeepj on 02 Aug 2019 22:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Karthik S » 02 Aug 2019 22:18

Terror threat was always there, can't remember last time this much action was seen.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Narad » 02 Aug 2019 23:00

I have a feeling that NaMo or AS may do a telivised address to the nation and revoke article 35A just before Independence day. :twisted:

With ofcourse portrait of Sardar Patel in the background :mrgreen:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 02 Aug 2019 23:04

trifurcation has its plus/minus... can argue either way.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Vivek K » 02 Aug 2019 23:04

Don't need a portrait anymore - maybe the statue as a backdrop!

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sudeepj » 02 Aug 2019 23:11

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1157316965771481088
ANI: Bharatiya Janata Party has issued whip for its Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha MPs to be present in the Parliament from 5 to 7 August.


Looks like its 35A/370.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby OmkarC » 02 Aug 2019 23:55

Narad wrote:I have a feeling that NaMo or AS may do a telivised address to the nation and revoke article 35A just before Independence day. :twisted:

With ofcourse portrait of Sardar Patel in the background :mrgreen:



Troop presence has already ticked off the separatists to regroup & plan. Why give them even more time by waiting till 15th ?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby SandeepR » 03 Aug 2019 00:03

The suggested possibilities for union territories and a separate Jammu state cannot be ruled out. Strong decisions can be made only by this Govt. And it seems they have done good homework to prevent any misadventures from across borders or within after Trumps Trumpet.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby KJo » 03 Aug 2019 01:23

I am hearing that trifurcation automatically makes 370 and 35 null and void. This seems to be the plan.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby shravanp » 03 Aug 2019 02:06

One thing for sure, Abdullahs and Mehboobas are rattled like no other. Their trembling voices are all too obvious.

Apologize for posting ndtv link over here, but hear her tone:

https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/left-right-centre/time-to-end-the-rumours-over-kashmir-523306?video-top-shows

Both (Abdullah/Mehbooba) are openly saying that Muslim demography and its majority is being threatened. Imagine Yindoos saying same on demographics concern in rest of the nation.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 03 Aug 2019 03:05

KJo wrote:I am hearing that trifurcation automatically makes 370 and 35 null and void. This seems to be the plan.


This gives me the aaha moment. Very interesting strategy. If this is the intention behind tirfurcation, I would say brilliant move by ModiJi to get rid of those apartheid articles 35A and 370.

But clarification question I have is this. No doubt both 370 and 35A were temporary provisions post accession of the princely state of J&K into the Indian union. But both applied to the entire state. Now, if trifurcation takes place, there is no J&K per se, then constitutionally speaking, do those articles then automatically become null and void?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2019 03:10

CRS, Instead of muttering dark forebodings like ORF guys, please tell us whats wrong with Jammu being separated or Ladakh?

Yes to you question.
All becomes null and void.
And China does have eyes on Ladakh.
Keeping valley snakes in charge weakens India in all the places.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby CRamS » 03 Aug 2019 05:09

RamanaGaru, nothing wrong in principle if it leads to better governance, but by separating Jammu and Laddakh out, we lose the brownie point that J&K is 'secular', notwithstanding the fact that 'secularism' lost its meaning the day Pandits were driven out and Muslims started demanding secession. Nevertheless, on paper at least, we reject TSP's claim over Kashmir citing the composite nature while TSP's claim is based on its exclusive Muslim character. But with Jammu and Laddakh taken out, its Muslim-valley + TSP on one side and India on the other. Makes the battle that much more difficult. In fact, TSP has always eyed only the Muslim-dominated valley. So by separating out the valley we have in fact done nothing to blunt TSP claim over the valley.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby khatvaanga » 03 Aug 2019 05:13

for now. if trifurcation leads to abolishment of 35A / 370.. which in turn reduces the M-ness of the valley itself wouldnt that be double whammy to TSP? Just saying.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 03 Aug 2019 06:13

IMHO.. Trifurcation, if such a thing were to happen, won't solve any problem. Problem is not even Kashmir but essentially places such as shopian, sopore, anantnag, doda etc. Merely re-directs attention to something else. Only solution is resettlement of displaced populations and in double the number originally displaced, everything else mere legal calisthenics.

In fact I would say, the administration is not in control of the situation in Kashmir. Evidence - cancellation of Amarnath Yatra. Pilgrimage to Char Dham, Amarnath are considered deeply spiritual experiences and people know they embark on such journeys fully knowing that they may attain Sadgati.

Moreover, if we are not able to secure 270 kms from Jammu to Srinagar and 150 kms from Srinagar to Baba Amarnath despite Million Strong Military, Two Million Strong Paramilitary, military equipment that even military may find hard to list down, with an administration hard on terrorism in power for last six years, something is deeply wrong.

From the other sides view, they didn't do anything but still had the Yatra cancelled. Objective attained. This is a massive failure. The government needs to be taken through presentation on - Over-Preparing, Over-Reacting and Over-Powering Force!

Government's J&K policy is all over the place and disappointing.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby salaam » 03 Aug 2019 08:10

https://twitter.com/meghdootindia/statu ... 88992?s=21

Rough translation: Indian heavy guns are being used. Videographer is 30 km inside Pak, near NeelumJhelum project. Locals are running away to safer places

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 03 Aug 2019 09:11

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu ... 12053.html


pak activity behind troop movements
extracts

The Centre’s decision of sending in additional troops of the Central armed forces to Kashmir is an outcome of several factors, including military activity in Pakistan, a renewed proactive push to hit at terrorists and intelligence inputs that the Amarnath yatra could be the target of militants.

The Army will be overstretched in case of an exigency and the Central forces will be needed for outer-cordoning during anti-terrorist operations in the hinterland.



Militarily, indications were visible on the night of July 31 when the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), sensing some ‘movement’ on the Indian side, flew combat air patrols — the first in the past two months. The Indian Air Force responded and did its ‘night patrolling’ in the air which officials here termed as ‘routine flying’. Three air fields in north India do this ‘routine patrolling’ or night flying. Surveillance planes of both sides have been flying.
Between July 29 and August 1, the Army, answering Pakistan’s cross-LoC firing, opened its artillery in the Uri sector. The artillery firing was after a lull of several months. Sources in the Army say firing by Pakistan in areas north of Pir Panjal was ‘unusual’ for this time of the year as firing is done to facilitate infiltration of terrorists. Around this time of the year, the Jhelum and its tributaries carry huge amounts of water and crossing these rivers would be impossible by militants.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 03 Aug 2019 09:32

Terrorists moved by Pak ahead of Imran Khan’s US visit are back at LoC
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 0uk7K.html


extracts
Fresh intelligence reports now indicate that 200 to 250 terrorists are back at the launch pads waiting to infiltrate into India, the army official added. The ceasefire violation in the Valley’s Gurez sector on Tuesday was an infiltration attempt, the army officer confirmed. “We could see two bodies (of terrorists) lying (there) ,” he said.

An intelligence official confirmed that the launch pads were vacated and the terrorists shifted to villages close to the line of control for the duration of about two weeks. “The border has become active again and we are expecting more ceasefire violations,” this person added on condition of anonymity.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby wig » 03 Aug 2019 09:34

something is very wrong if we are unable to secure the route of the revered Amarnath Yatra. This is unprecedented, at least I am unable to recall any such instance in the past.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby schinnas » 03 Aug 2019 09:37

With 5km range sniper guns in mountain terrain even 1 lakh cops wouldn't be enough to guard a 150km stretch.

Besides, we don't know what the real game is. Some best in the business experts are doing their work. Least we could do is to not whine with little knowledge of the ground.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Sachin » 03 Aug 2019 10:07

Rishi_Tri wrote:Only solution is resettlement of displaced populations and in double the number originally displaced, everything else mere legal calisthenics.

And how do you propose the GoI should achieve this? By forcibly taking Kashmiri Pandits on army trucks and then dumping them in Kashmir Valley and come back? For all you know many Kashmiri Pandits may not even be willing to go back, now that they have settled down in a new place.

Evidence - cancellation of Amarnath Yatra. Pilgrimage to Char Dham, Amarnath are considered deeply spiritual experiences and people know they embark on such journeys fully knowing that they may attain Sadgati.

The yatris may be making the yatra knowing that they may attain Sadgati. But the "seculars", main stream media have no such great ambitions. If the Yatra continues, and there is an ambush on them leading to big casualties; I can give it you in writing - Congress will start riots across India. Even other wise jobless Brinda Karat of CPI(M) would become a hard-core Hindutwa-wadi and encourage people to run riot. Remember the Kandahar hijack episode, then you will know what I mean. The Congress and other traitors are waiting for an opportunity to cause mayhem in the country, now that BJP Govt. is passing new laws like baking pizzas. Modi & A.Shah may be hard core Hindutwa-wadis, but they are also smart politicians.

From the other sides view, they didn't do anything but still had the Yatra cancelled.

The Yatra was not canceled completely, am I right? It was on for quite some time but the duration was cut short.

wig wrote:something is very wrong if we are unable to secure the route of the revered Amarnath Yatra. This is unprecedented, at least I am unable to recall any such instance in the past.

schinnas wrote:With 5km range sniper guns in mountain terrain even 1 lakh cops wouldn't be enough to guard a 150km stretch.

Protecting a mountainous route used for a pilgrimage done by 1000s of pilgrims is no easy task even during peace time. One thing we cannot post a police man every 10 meters, and secondly there can be vulnerable areas where attacks can be carried out from the far. And the pilgrims are never a disciplined lot, they too may not be very keen on following every instruction given by the police and IA. And one wrong move and few of the pilgrims get killed. J&K Police will get blamed, IA would be declared incapable, Modi & Co would be accused of not being Hindu enough and cheating Hindus all the while. All because they did not get 100% success in a game, where odds were always against them. Why GoI should take such a risk? The "secualars" may now whine that the Yatra was cancelled mid-way; well they can also form volunteer group and take pilgrims at their own risk (if they have all found a new love for Hinduism).


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