J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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sum
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 08 Aug 2019 21:19

Sonugn wrote:Around 70 terrorists and hardcore pro-Pakistan separatists from Kashmir valley have been shifted to Agra. The terrorists and separatists were shifted in a special pl ane provided by the Indian Air Force
Around 70 terrorists and hardcore pro-Pakistan separatists from Kashmir valley have been shifted to Agra. The terrorists and separatists were shifted in a special plane provided by the Indian Air Force: Sources

Hilarious comments :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby manjgu » 08 Aug 2019 21:34

one of the important factors which people miss ..about wealth in kashmir...people have benefited immensly from the terrorism industry..both pakistan and indians have pumped in money...u see palatial dubai style houses with tinted glasses in kashmir..no slums, shanty towns etc etc. everybody is well fed...

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby abhijitm » 08 Aug 2019 21:44

Kashi wrote:
abhijitm wrote:If you don't agree then counter it why jobs will not reduce the probability of an unemployed youth joining jihad.


One of the recent trends of educated, employed upwardly-mobile folks morphing into jihadis would belie your claims of more jobs == less jihad

Correct.

There are many research papers available online which talk about relation between youth employment and violence. No one, and neither did I say that employment eliminates the terrorism. For any case of law and order if you think of any solution it always works only on probability. For example, there is strict law against murder but still there is no single zero murder society. And murderers are from poor, rich, men, women, illiterate, highly educated you name it. What it does is to create fear of law which reduces the probability of a person committing murder he/she otherwise would not have given second thought in absence of the law. In some extreme cases along with punishment you also need to give carrots which can be in the form of employment, education etc. which gives them hope. So even 1 out of 10 potential youth decides not to go in that route and live simple life then it is a success.

You will always have jihadis from the entire spectrum of the society. The aim is to reduce their numbers by all means so that they would be manageable to the security apparatus.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Aug 2019 22:14

manjgu wrote:one of the important factors which people miss ..about wealth in kashmir...people have benefited immensly from the terrorism industry..both pakistan and indians have pumped in money...u see palatial dubai style houses with tinted glasses in kashmir..no slums, shanty towns etc etc. everybody is well fed...


Have you been to the rural areas? True the live ones may have clothes because it gets too cold to survive outside.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Bart S » 09 Aug 2019 02:19

Please do watch if you have the time:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 2511927952

A short clip from this long video was posted on twitter by Aditya Raj Kaul under the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that it was pro-India, as she appeared to be bashing the separatists. But on watching the full video, it provides a shocking insight into the mentality of (at least some) Kashmiri Muslims. Sense of entitlement, lack of introspection, hatred of everyone under the sun (including Pakis and Geelani types) but especially Hindus/Indians/KPs, abusive, bigoted, racist attitude, and lack of any knowledge of facts on the ground, among other things in full display.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Aug 2019 02:31

That is precisely what Sheikh Abdullah (pbuh) wrote in his book "Flames of The Chinar". The book was not at all what I expected: it tore into the mentality of his kinfolk. Basically said that Kashmir was condemned to unrest because of its residents. Which is another reason to urge demographic sweep as the only way forward. After 70 years under the guns from all sides, perhaps there is SOME way that at least a good portion of the educated youth will see hope in peace and stability.

BTW, this is all soooooo far away from the picture of pastoral simplicity, innocence, gentleness and utter integrity painted of Kashmiris in 1970s Bollywood. Which is what forms the opinions of most plains desis.
Reminds me of Christianne Amanpour describing the Lashkar-e-Toiba as "Gentle secular Sufis". :roll:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 09 Aug 2019 04:48

To be honest I think J&K Reorganization should have been done right after 1965 war. However the sad death of Lal Bahadur Shastri plunged the nation in grief and the Indicate-Syndicate wars distracted the nation.
The next option was after 1971 war. Again missed opportunity due to the crisis that led to Emergency.

After Indira Gandhi came back to power in 1980 was third opportunity and she did start trying to resolve the vexed boundary demarcation thing.

Rajiv Gandhi wasted his huge mandate and didn't understand the way forward.

After that it was turmoil and coalition governments that could not resolve the matter.

It was NaMo 2.0 that cut the Gordian Knot by creating two Union Territories and essentially integrated erstwhile J&K with India. This was long standing demand as later as 1964 when Prakash Vir Shastri introduced a private bill and K. Hanumanthiyya of Congress supported it.

Now even Dr. Karan Singh the late Maharaja Hari Singh's son also agreed to the path forward.

i soon expect Mehbooba Mufti and the Abdullahs to accept the fiat acccompli.
The Chinar Corps commander noted the huge drop in violence after the 5 August 2019 resolution in Rajya Sabha.

So its for a new future.

I want to close this thread on this happy note.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby ramana » 09 Aug 2019 04:49

Please start two new threads on
J&K Union Territory-2019

Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Reason is both are still border states and we need to monitor.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Aug 2019 07:08

Tough to get news from PORK. Not much twitter alive there, and what exists is Pakis in Urdu. Need translator handy. Otherwise, it is essential to monitor Balwaristan. They have read in the news that saffon kuffar have promised to liberate them within the next 4 years. Clock is ticking. Bridges to blow, mines to sow.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby srin » 09 Aug 2019 07:16

Anujan wrote:What's funny about Pakistan is that they passed a parliament resolution condemning abrogation of 370 and want it back.

You know, the same 370 which says JK is part of India.

They never cease to amaze me how dumb they are.


I'd missed this post, sorry for the late reply. This is a great catch. The Article 370 mentions
- state of J&K
- instrument of accession to the dominion of India

By supporting this, are they essentially ratifying their annulling of claim against Indian J&K ? :lol:

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby niran » 09 Aug 2019 08:00

schinnas wrote:
Given our impetus to get growth rate back to 8%, this will be a big nuisance and distraction for us. I just hope the reaction is so severe that it cripples them for several years militarily.

war is bad on ears and hearing, but good on economy, provided you win.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 09 Aug 2019 09:01

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/internatio ... hmir-task-
How Indian govt executed the 'top secret' Kashmir task
August 6, 2019
Prime Minister Narendra Modi's actual countdown for revoking Article 370 and bifurcation of the state of Jammu and Kashmir began during the third week of June, when he chose 1987 batch IAS officer of Chattisgarh cadre, B.V.R. Subramanyam as new Chief Secretary of Jammu and Kashmir.
Subrahmanyam, who had worked as Joint Secretary (PMO) with the Prime Minister earlier, was one of the key officials in Modi's Mission Kashmir. The entire task of Mission Kashmir was handed over to Union Home Minister Amit Shah, who along with Law Minister Ravi Shankar Prasad was reviewing legal implications with a core team, which included Law & Justice Secretary Alok Srivastav, Additional Secretary Law (Home) R.S. Verma, Attorney General K.K. Venugopal, Union Home Secretary Rajiv Gauba and his select team of Kashmir Division.
Before the beginning of the Budget Session, Shah had briefed Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) chief Mohan Bhagwat and his aide (General Secretary) Bhaiyaji Joshi about the Centre's determination to revoke Article 370 and subsequent bifurcation of Jammu and Kashmir into two separate Union Territories.
After legal consultations, Shah focused on the implications of the revocation of Article 370 on the valley's law and order situation. Sources close to Shah revealed that on the Prime Minister's suggestion Shah then had a couple of meetings with National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval.
The sources said that once Shah had reviewed the situation in Kashmir himself, Doval was sent to Srinagar to assess the situation from a security point of view. The NSA camped there for three days. Then on July 26, the decision to curtail the Amarnath Yatra was taken. Later recall of all tourists from the valley was also suggested by the NSA. Apart from this, an additional 100 companies of the central paramilitary were also rushed as back-up to the prevailing security apparatus.
Jammu and Kashmir Chief Secretary Subramanyam, who was in the loop with the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) and the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) was given the blueprint of several security measures to be taken on ground zero -- use of satellite phones by key police, paramilitary and administration officials; deployment of QRTs in sensitive urban and rural pockets across South Kasmir; and a high vigil at LoC by Army, apprehending mischief from across the border.
.....
Gautam

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Dilbu » 09 Aug 2019 09:12

India asks UN team on Kashmir to leave Delhi premises
The Indian foreign ministry said on Tuesday the government had asked UNMOGIP to hand over the Delhi premises from where it was running a liaison office for more than four decades for free as part of efforts to rationalize the mission’s presence in India.

The small U.N. mission has its main offices in the Kashmir capital Srinagar on the Indian side and in the Pakistani capital Islamabad as part of a U.N. Security Council resolution to supervise the ceasefire in the divided region.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Dilbu » 09 Aug 2019 09:46

United Nations rejects Pakistan’s appeal for intervention on J-K
Calling for “maximum restraint” by all sides, UN Secretary General Antonio Gutteres on Thursday indicated the Kashmir dispute needs to be resolved bilaterally in keeping with the Shimla Agreement of 1972 and by peaceful means in accordance with the UN charter.

The reference to the Shimla Agreement in this context is rare and significant, according to people familiar with these discussions, as it provides the framework for resolving the dispute bilaterally, which is a rebuff in a way to Pakistan’s attempts to seek UN intervention
.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sum » 09 Aug 2019 10:06

Dilbu wrote:India asks UN team on Kashmir to leave Delhi premises
The Indian foreign ministry said on Tuesday the government had asked UNMOGIP to hand over the Delhi premises from where it was running a liaison office for more than four decades for free as part of efforts to rationalize the mission’s presence in India.

The small U.N. mission has its main offices in the Kashmir capital Srinagar on the Indian side and in the Pakistani capital Islamabad as part of a U.N. Security Council resolution to supervise the ceasefire in the divided region.

5 year old report?

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby disha » 09 Aug 2019 10:33

Dilbu wrote:United Nations rejects Pakistan’s appeal for intervention on J-K

The reference to the Shimla Agreement in this context is rare and significant, according to people familiar with these discussions, as it provides the framework for resolving the dispute bilaterally, which is a rebuff in a way to Pakistan’s attempts to seek UN intervention
.


This *is* significant. In nutshell,

1. UN is not going to be bothered India's internal decisions. So UN does not care abrogation of article 370/35A. UN does not consider Jammu & Kashmir as disputed territory.

2. UN sank the "plebiscite" boat. Basically the entire project of Bandit'ji taking it to UN and Bakistan salivating on UNSC doing something on "Cashmere Plebiscite" is gone. Poof.

3. UN is basically saying whatever issue Bakistan has with India in the context of Cashmere, has to be solved in the context of Shimla Agreement. Viz: It is a bilateral issue and it should be talked peacefully and amicably (preferably over chai-biskoot)

It does not take away the right to retaliation including pre-emptive retaliation by India for any Bakistani antics. That is if Bakistan decides to send in porkis for shaheed, they can be taken out a.la Balakote. Couple of such thappads and they may end up losing Neelum valley.

4. Cashmeres in the valley can jump up and down screaming "cashmere" but time for them is running out and there will always be racist anti-Hindu anti-India rants from nytimes and guardians. But they do not matter. It is just a matter of time for Cashmere to become Kashmir.

Bakistan has isolated themselves. They are so powerless now that even Taliban is giving them advice. If the valley cashmere radical wasabis (wahhabi sunnis) do not see this, then they are plain stupid.

Can Bakistan raise "moral and diplomatic" support for jihadis in Cashmere valley? No. That will be sponsoring terrorism in neighbouring state and the state reserves the right to retaliate. Can Bakistan send "cash" to the Cashmeres? Well since Jammu & Kashmir is now a union-territory and IPC applies, there are several ways the terror sponsors (and stone pelters) can be accomodated in Agra or Tihad or Cellular jail.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Roop » 09 Aug 2019 10:51

UlanBatori wrote:BTW, this is all soooooo far away from the picture of pastoral simplicity, innocence, gentleness and utter integrity painted of Kashmiris in 1970s Bollywood. Which is what forms the opinions of most plains desis.
Reminds me of Christianne Amanpour describing the Lashkar-e-Toiba as "Gentle secular Sufis". :roll:

Yes, but with plains desis it is a question of benign ignorance, i.e. not knowing how these KMs are and nevertheless ascribing good motives to them. With Christianne Amanpour it is a question of malignant lies. That woman is a propagandist, plain and simple.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby mmasand » 09 Aug 2019 11:12

UlanBatori wrote:Tough to get news from PORK. Not much twitter alive there, and what exists is Pakis in Urdu. Need translator handy. Otherwise, it is essential to monitor Balwaristan. They have read in the news that saffon kuffar have promised to liberate them within the next 4 years. Clock is ticking. Bridges to blow, mines to sow.


Am I the only one having all the fun reading Urdu Twitter hain? Will post some quirks in the 'terroristan' thread soon with transliteration.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby arshyam » 09 Aug 2019 11:14

ramana wrote:Please start two new threads on
J&K Union Territory-2019

Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Reason is both are still border states and we need to monitor.

Done.

Links:
J&K UT thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7757
Ladakh UT thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7758

Please move your discussions over. Mods, please lock this thread.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby Rishirishi » 10 Aug 2019 06:46

Bart S wrote:Please do watch if you have the time:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 2511927952

A short clip from this long video was posted on twitter by Aditya Raj Kaul under the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that it was pro-India, as she appeared to be bashing the separatists. But on watching the full video, it provides a shocking insight into the mentality of (at least some) Kashmiri Muslims. Sense of entitlement, lack of introspection, hatred of everyone under the sun (including Pakis and Geelani types) but especially Hindus/Indians/KPs, abusive, bigoted, racist attitude, and lack of any knowledge of facts on the ground, among other things in full display.


I think she represent the sentiment of the Kashmiri people. They are now really heart broken and probably cant think rationally. They used to make their own laws, had their own flag and for all practical reasons were a county.

Majority of Kashmiris wanted independence. They knew very well what Pakistan would do if it got control of it, so they stuck with India. But they knew India had to be presurised, Hence they welcomed Jehadis to put pressure on India. They knew India would prefer an Independent Kashmir, rather then it going to Pakistan. Their hope was that both countries would get tired and settle for an independent Kashmir.

In a way they played both India and Pakistan for fool. The Pakistanis invested their entire country, believing they will get the land and the people. The Indians lost thousands of soldiers and spent billions, thinking they would win the hearts and minds.
Now the game is up for the Kashmiris.
The world is fed up of islamic seperatism (Syria, Iraq, Lybia, Afganistan, Pakistan etc), so no support. Pakistanis cant do much, abolition of 370 only makes sense if Namo want's to change the demography. It must be bitter for them.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 10 Aug 2019 08:28

Well entrepreneurial and educated Panjabi Hindus as well as industrious Sikhs can take over the valley's economy within 5 to 10 years. So I see their concern. With all due respect, KM need to learn to work for a living. I am not referring to the aam aadmi you can see in some of the recent television news footage. Their lives seem to be about the same as people in western UP-not too poor but not well off. They seem to be a long distance from the urban Indian in major cities of India.

Some of the sleaze is oozing out-the corruption, nepotism, the playing of both sides etc. The KM must have known all this but it was sanitised by the GOI and media.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 08:42

Bottom line: the majority of the population needs to buy into the notion that they are Indians - or get out. I hear the whine that "This is Our Land" - but ..er... it is not. Most of them are usurpers occupying the land of the productive citizens that they or their predecessors drove out. End of patience.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 09:00

On Times Now Latitude, Syed Ata Hasnain and G. Parthasarthy say that since 2017 GOI has been going after the financing of unrest in J&K and have cut it drastically.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 09:03

Maroof Raza says that a terrorist camp in Neelam Valley has been taken out with Bofors.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 09:04

The big worry is IEDs.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 09:14

A_Gupta wrote:Maroof Raza says that a terrorist camp in Neelam Valley has been taken out with Bofors.

That accounts for the :(( that thousands have had to vacate homes etc. Makes sense.


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