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Y. Kanan wrote:I prefer a Trump victory, however unlikely it may be. Hillary will be a disaster for India. I don't see how any patriotic Indian would want Hillary president, unless they're NRI's who've abandoned India and just don't care any more.
As I said,
Rudradev wrote:From the POV of a risk-management strategy it's a no-brainer.
Not really surprising that some will qualify. With flying (although "patriotic") colors.
^
Kanan ji, RD ji ,Dipanker ji, Mort ji and others(especially US based voters),
Please resist from personally addressing each others posts on why they are voting for whatever candidate they vote.
Frankly there is no need to quote each others posts to give an opinion on each other's opinion.
In my first post too i have mentioned this.
After so many exasperating months of trump vs hillary both in the media & in brf , i think 99% of brfites would have made up their minds one way or the other.No one is likely to change their choice at this point.
Its a stark two way presidential election designed so that no middle ground can be found till the election concludes, so why publicly address each others preference in the meantime ?
This poll is just for understanding where people stand on brf on the eve of the election, its not to help either trump or hillary win - and is not at all consequential to the result of the US election.
Please avoid addressing each other when it comes to your respective choices. The thread starter did the smart thing by requesting that opinions only be about your choice, not a conversation with others. As such, you only need one post to make your case.
It's quite tiresome and sad when we have to separate two Indian posters on a site about India, because they got into an argument about the politics of another faraway land. How dearly you care about your choice is irrelevant when the conversation becomes personal vs another poster here.
There will be very little leeway in this matter. We don't want to see Indian posters getting into an argument about foreign politics here. As such, the easiest way will be chosen when things get out of hand - thread deletion and summary bans running until past the election day. We already have to deal with the sorry sight of every single US related thread having post reports against it due to he said / she said arguments between posters.
SwamyG wrote:Kashi and Shiv,
The other point is all the debates are natakbazi, they are administered and run by the two largest parties. Essentially they shut off everyone else, and make them "unviable". When Ralph Nader affected Gore, and that made an interesting distraction for some time. The American elections offer the people a false dilemma. And it is a reflection of American politics where people have to pick the lesser of the two evils, because no other candidate is 'viable'. The argumentative ask "Why waste your vote?"
Be it religion, war or elections - America just likes two choices. It is said competition is good, I guess not in all spheres.
I did not vote, but let me point out that if someone started a BRF poll that asked
Do you want the next Mars lander to have
1. Eight wheels
2. Six wheels
That poll would have as much relevance to me and to BRF in general. It is a poll. Yes. Is it relevant to BR? It is relevant only to the country of residence of some BRFites. BRFites who are not voters in the US neither have the tools to assess the candidates nor the power to make a difference. That is what I mean by using the Mars lander analogy
I agree with you Shiv. This poll should have been split into two sections - one for those who live in the US and vote and the second one for the rest. Though I can vote, as I live in CA, my vote is not of such an importance. It is Hillary all the way here. My Senator would be Kamala Harris and my Congressman McNerney (they are so ahead here). I am concentrating on the Props. They may affect me. Like legalization of Marijuana and tax on cigarettes and the jail reforms etc.
I voted Trump here but won't be voting for either candidate in the election. My vote does not matter because my state is a strong Hillary state. I know for a fact that a LOT of desis have generally been blind democratic voters because it is "Good for America". That, to me personally, is dumba$$ism. India is our holy land much like Israel is the holy land for Jews. I am yet to meet a Jew who votes against Israel's interests.
In this election, many of those Democrat voter desis have discovered in Hillary a great shining leader. You challenge them a bit and out comes the truth that they are making Hillary a saint because they hate Trump.
Secretly, I am hoping that Trump pulls a victory much like Modi in 2014. Trump is not Modi, but Hillary most certainly is Maino Klan and America too has its presstitutes, libtard-commies and all other ingredients India had in 2014.
i think Trump has the right idea about the need to cooperate with Russians to defeat islamic terrorism all over the world...which is the only real issue. All other issues are actually non issues... of him being sexist etc..( would like to know how many of us have not commented on woman body at some point or other??). he is right on immigration ..( he talks of building walls and we are building fences..idea is the same). once in office he will have to dilute his stance on immigration espicially from mexico and other latin american countries. Dont we frown on Bangladeshi immigrants and how they have screwed things up in India?
Rudradev wrote:I've voted my preference for Hillary Clinton. There are grave dangers for India with her victory, but the one upside is that the risks are largely known and quantifiable... behind-the-scenes networks of operation, patronage, and vested interests that will define her policies can be tracked through well-established methods. Specific pressure points and inducements can be identified and operationalized with plentiful information and abundant foresight.
From the POV of a risk-management strategy it's a no-brainer. For an India riven with internal and external enemies, newly gifted with a capable leader and striving hard for a stable path to achieving her long-suppressed potential, Clinton's predictability is of greater value than anything reliable or concrete that the other candidate has offered. Rest is popcorn onlee.
I am sorry to say it is wrong way of looking at this issue. I would say this is somewhat Bhasmasur syndrome. With Hilary in power all those quantifiable/s will increase in their quantity and severity for which we may not have resources and clout to negate.
It is always better to see known enemy getting weaker or defeated so that her ecosystem goes into hiding or start doing mistakes and we can punish them more.
Trump may be an uncharted territory but it won't be a rocket science to access his policies.
I am betting my money on him, it is worth taking a risk; bringing down the probability to 50% than 100% of difficult steering on high seas.
I hope SHillary, CM of Punjab (W) wins and shuts down the pipeline for new defence products headed to India. We will take some time, but will emerge stronger and unlike Paki, will learn how NOT to be a client state and thereby rely on homegrown products.
She will have a direct impact on the Indian diasporais: additional taxes to impose on H1 workers and their sponsors, if of Indic origin (easily determined by looking at whether 50% of the staff are on H1/L1).
Sabyasachi ji,
You are quoting other's voting preference to give your opinion.
as per the previous requests by me & mods please remove the quoted & post your opinion without personally addressing others.
Yes, the poll is relevant to BRF, even though most brfs will not vote in the US election. We are a global community where what happens in the US affects India. BRF support for Trump is an indicator of how similar minded IndIan origin Americans will vote. Trump has been visiting Indian temples, and religious functions, probably a first for US elections. India has arrived on the world stage, a few years ago such a poll would not have mattered. Modi had changed things. Analogous situation is wrt Israel and Jewish diaspora in the US. Opinions in Israel influence Jews in the US and vice versa.
From the present email brouhaha it appears that Huma Abedin is in trouble. Who knows she might even be the sacrificial lamb. That should take out at least on character who is not so friendly to India and rumored to be in the short list to be SoS.
Trump is an idiot (and I mean that in the most literal sense).
An idiot should not be given nukes. An idiot should not be responsible for 25% of the global GDP. An idiot should not be commanding the most powerful military in the world.
Folks who think we in India will remain unaffected when that buffoon drags the US economy back into recession, are deluding themselves.
Here is my reasoning. We as humans are good local data relativists. We Are not good cross temporal global data evaluators. In investing parlance, the thing people give too much value to is skill, intelligence, research, analysis and also sitting at the crossroads of great opportunity/odds. None of these things are significant to the outcome. What's critical is discipline. A disciplined investor wins irrespective of presence or absence of the earlier mentioned factors.
Hillary is disciplined.
If she decides to screw you, she will. She won't think twice. As a president, she will have unprecedented powers of screwing anyone. And she will.
She will use her consiglieres and wreck havoc.
Trump is a no brainer if you are a Bharat Rakshak.
I am, like SaiP and SSundar, irrelevant because in my state too, it is always the Democratic nominee who wins. I cannot in all honesty vote for either candidate because I have huge problems with both, so I will probably end up either not voting or simply going for one of the third options.
For the purpose of this debate though, I am with Trump. I also believe this thread has relevance and is quite significant, despite my old friend's concerns.
America (USA) is still the most important nation in the world, the old saying 'When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold' is still true. So who heads this country - and therefore becomes the most powerful human being on the planet - is an issue that should concern everybody who is interested in the wellbeing of our community of nations. Nobody gives a damn about elections in the UK or Australia, except as a curiosity, but the US election has all the news channels around the world attracting viewers like nothing else does.
For the Indians in the US it also has profound meaning, not just in how it affects our livelihoods here but in also how it affects our 'pitrabhoomi' and in a larger context our 'punyabhoomi' (the definitions of which I will leave for now). You know the old saying 'You can take the Indian out of India....'. In this case I mean it in a positive sense. We are all Rakshaks and our hearts beat in sync with the pulse of the mother nation. We may be thousands of miles away and many many years out, but we still have a great fondness, affection, nay passion for the land we left behind. So how the outcome of this election affects the fortunes of India is also of great relevance to us.
Much as I would love to see a woman in the White House, I cannot imagine HiC being that person. She has too much baggage, most of it dirty and is surrounded by people of dubious pedigree. She is conniving and Machiavellian, a habitual liar and just looking at her face reminds me of Chucky the demonic doll. I have a bad feeling about her coming to power. She is going to increase my taxes, take away my privileges, empower those who believe in 'entitlements' and will take America into wars that cannot be 'won' in the traditional sense. Her tacit support for Islamic Jihad (if you don't fight evil you are aiding it) is a big problem for me. That she will also be bad for India (going by her record) is just the last straw.
Trump is a loose cannon, a wild card. Foul-mouthed, misogynous, lecherous, racist, pro-life, and all of that. Quite a few of these qualities were in abundance in various other world leaders, not to mention past American presidents too. Those complaining about handing an idiot the nuclear button may wish to review the 'Spitting Image' clip about Reagan I posted in another thread, reposting it here. He was lauded as the greatest president in decades while he was suffering from dementia! If you don't find that scary, you shouldn't let Trump worry you at all.
For those thinking Trump's victory will mean KKK rallies and white trash running around stringing up brown people, you may want to talk to the families of all the unarmed black people killed by OmBaba's white police in the last couple of years.
Sure, Trump is not somebody you want to invite for dinner, he is outrageous and completely unpredictable. But hey, it is his unpredictability that I find attractive, a real change for those who have been clamoring for change, something that OmBaba promised but never delivered. He will call out Islamic Jihad for what it is and even if he is powerless to do anything about it, at least the discussion will be out in the open instead of being limited to BRF and behind closed doors.
Heck, I doubt very much he can 'make America Great Again', the only thing that can make American Great Again is the American People themselves, if they choose to. But for once, I would be very interested in seeing what Trump's presidency will be like, if only to satisfy the morbid inside me.
And I hope SHQ or my daughter never get to read this post
Pretty good post primus I like it.In answer to the good doc about many brfites not having votes. many in the same household have votes.Also personally I have changed or strengthened the resolve to go and vote for Trump in close to 100 people by logical arguments( and the no keeps going up) .
Primus wrote:Trump is a loose cannon, a wild card. Foul-mouthed, misogynous, lecherous, racist, pro-life, and all of that.
He's not a loose cannon, he's a moron. Only a moron would keep firebombing his own campaign and then be indignant about the results.
Those complaining about handing an idiot the nuclear button may wish to review the 'Spitting Image' clip about Reagan I posted in another thread, reposting it here. He was lauded as the greatest president in decades while he was suffering from dementia! If you don't find that scary, you shouldn't let Trump worry you at all.
Reagan had Alzheimer's disease not dementia. And yes it is scary and had it been known, the GOP shouldn't have allowed him to run in 1984.
In Trump's case, the crazy senility is already out (that's assuming he was once 'normal').
For those thinking Trump's victory will mean KKK rallies and white trash running around stringing up brown people, you may want to talk to the families of all the unarmed black people killed by OmBaba's white police in the last couple of years.
Just like in India, law and order is a state subject. Something I have to keep explaining to people about Modi in the context of violence against Dalits/Muslims.
RYAN: You [MUFFLED] mentioned a few minutes earlier here that you would knock ISIS. You’ve mentioned it many times. You’ve also mentioned the risk of putting American troop in a danger area. If you could substantially reduce the risk of harm to ground troops, would you use a battlefield nuclear weapon to take out ISIS?
TRUMP: I don’t want to use, I don’t want to start the process of nuclear. Remember the one thing that everybody has said, I’m a counterpuncher. Rubio hit me. Bush hit me. When I said low energy, he’s a low-energy individual, he hit me first. I spent, by the way he spent 18 million dollars’ worth of negative ads on me. That’s putting [MUFFLED]…
RYAN: This is about ISIS. You would not use a tactical nuclear weapon against ISIS?
[CROSSTALK]
TRUMP: I’ll tell you one thing, this is a very good looking group of people here. Could I just go around so I know who the hell I’m talking to?
Please note, I am NOT voting for Trump in the election, have said so already. This is simply for the purpose of this armchair discussion.
And BTW, Alzheimer's is a one of the leading causes of and thus is a form of dementia, technically pre-senile dementia but for all practical purposes, the two terms are interchangeable. It has multiple other components which are not relevant to this discussion. The point is that he had very little capacity to make a rational decision (in this context no different from Trump) and there was ample evidence that he had it, people simply ignored it because he was so popular and a sure-win. Once he was widely recognized to have it he still remained the President. If you were around in those times there were plenty of Spitting Image and other shows that included actual videos of his incapacity. If a President is incapable of holding his office for any reason he should not be and yet he was allowed to, which is my whole point.
Anyway, as per the rules of this thread you were not supposed to respond directly to my post and neither am I to respond to yours. So this will be my last on this.
A request was made earlier from OP'er and also an admin that please don't reply to another member's posts. Can everyone please resist saying (in this thread) why someone else's opinion is not as good as yours?
Billionaires are not usually idiots. While Trump certainly lacks information about many world issues, he has repeatedly said that he will hire people who will provide him good info.
Trump is going to win, just like Brexit was a total surprise. There are lots of decent people who dont want to openly say they are voting for Trump (it is embarassing), not sure if the polls capture that.
killary will destroy the world
jerk will destroy uncle.
I prefer the jerk as he gives value for money
considering India , definite NO to killary. folks can turn around upside down and say whatever they want but killary will be a disaster.
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people talk BS about nuclear buton in hands of jerk. can anyone tell me the difference between crooked and jerk . Ok take it as ombaba . does anyone know how nuclear button works. I dont think any president knows the working of nuc butons.
They have people with that knowledge if anything catastrophe happens to guide them.There are process for the escalation.
people should stop the nonsense about nuc button thingie.
---------------------------------
Have discussed about this 2 hopefuls to my collegaues- all citizens none Indians. All whites and obvious muslims for killary and rest for trump.
have a ME collegue plainly said killary destroyed ME, created isis . said many local folks in ME would want their rulers (in cahoots with uncle) to be kicked out. They dont like uncle policies.
he agrees with trump and putin joining hands to detroy isis.
I can't vote, I think I will miss it by a few weeks. But if I could I would vote for Trump. I hope TN votes Trump. Billary is the sort of lying, conniving, scheming, anti-India lady that needs to be Trumped. She is fully capable of expanding the conflict in gelf to a third world war. Her support for Break India forces in very well known. She is a disaster and her presidency will possibly be the worst thing that can happen to the world at this point. With that paki loving Joe Biden has her SoS, he bhagwaan. Trump OTOH is warming up to Indian Americans. Hopefully there will be some leverage for him to partner with India to cut pak down to shape. His evangelical support is the only thing I am worried about. We don't know what he has promised to them. On other issues, I am with him more or less.
Folks,
0f ~4M PIOs, about a 1M get to vote. So not even half a drop in bucket.
Many live in states that don't matter. NRIs are clustered in East and West Coast states. A few in Texas area.
However need to support both parties to prevent targeting. So local elections matter.
So don't lose heart and have deep fallout here.
I voted for trump in this poll and as non-partisan voter I'll be voting for Trump who unfortunately doesn't win California. Main reason is Coterie she keeps for foreign policy and connections she has with Islamic countries, esp Saudis. Another minor but domestic reason is taxes will go up under her. All other things are hot air at least to me.
I vote for democrats on issue basis and based on person like Kamala Harris for example. She is way better than outgoing CA senator Barbara Boxer who I voted against in all elections.
ramana wrote:Folks,
0f ~4M PIOs, about a 1M get to vote. So not even half a drop in bucket.
Many live in states that don't matter. NRIs are clustered in East and West Coast states. A few in Texas area.
However need to support both parties to prevent targeting. So local elections matter.
So don't lose heart and have deep fallout here.
Even in concentrated areas Indians make up 3% vote base for State and Federal elections. They don't make much vote power to affect any policies and laws. This is from a person running for state elections.
DJT is anti-Pak, can say radical islamic terrorism. That is good for India and the world. HRC cant say radical islamic terrorism and her rt hand person of 20 years is half paki with supposed connections to the muslim brotherhood. Such characteristics are not good for India.
ramana wrote:Folks,
0f ~4M PIOs, about a 1M get to vote. So not even half a drop in bucket.
............
There is no reason why the Indian community cannot make a difference. The way forward would be to begin by supporting politicians and policies that benefit the Indian diaspora and are ultimately pro-Indian. No matter how much the Jews fight among themselves, they always vote for candidates that are Pro-Israel, even crossing party lines.
Thus, it is unfortunate that on BRF I see so much divisive and internecine bickering.
^ Exactly what Scott Adams of Dilbert fame says the HiC supporters call those who dont support her- 'crazies'. HKumar you should edit your post as the Mods wont take it lightly you calling those whom you disagree with as crazies.
One of the conflicts that Indics living in the US have to deal with is wondering whether to take a "pro-India" stance or a "pro me" stance. Sometimes these two are the same, so there is no problem. Other times, they are in opposite directions.
