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Understanding US thread-III

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 14 Feb 2017 10:27

US NSA has resigned. It seems he was in touch with Russian Ambassador etc. and lied about it to VP later. He had to go due to that. With all the Russian involvement drama during and immediately after elections, he is idiotic to lie about it.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 10:43

there are some other mysteries as to why public schools in SV except a few areas are considered bad that desis spent a lot of time and money on private schools. take an area like santa clara - the santa clara parkway has dozens of the most famous cos and yet the quiet residential areas a few streets away are full of desis sending their kids to some pvt school.

and these pvt schools are like our old desi schools or rather korean/japani in tight discipline, work ethic, homework load and so on ....

as the joke goes, whatever fears and insecurities drive the desi/east asian schools got transferred into SV, and then amplified over a smaller population and higher "opportunity cost" :)

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 14 Feb 2017 11:01

So the general problem is the lack of local funding in poor areas. Then how it is going to be solved with the solutions offered by the GOP like Vouchers? Maybe charter schools are a way out to some of the problems. Wiki uncle has info which suggests that they have a reasonable record.

I wish more gurus here throw light on the basic education in the US here and health care administration. We do not read much about them here. For us, if is tough to understand the reasons for kids in the US not having a good education at High School level.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 11:51

some public schools do not have buses due to cost I believe and some only bus the far off kids..those within some radius must manage on own - walk, run, parental drop. with families increasingly splintering into single-mom situations in poorer towns, the mom has to work 2 jobs to survive and mainly being retail or production cannot take itvity flexi time to shuttle the kids to/from school and daycare easily.

people should talk to these single moms just how stressed and on-edge out they are. some are lucky to have mothers nearby who support by looking after the kids for some time, some not so.

when we left massa for good, we felt so sad seeing the plight of our front door neighbour (1 kid, father a pickup truck - flannel check shirt wearing type who came on visits, mother offering some support), we gifted her a large wooden dining table we had rather than sell it. she had no real assets to speak of.

media/hollywood/palo alto/wooded elite east coast towns is only the glitzy successful side of the gora society . NRI/PIO in ITvity/STEM have limited exposure to the poorer cohort. "Gus" is one guy I met in person who has some deep insight into the situation.'

outside of the ITvity, salaries in other fields like civil or mechanical are fairly modest and its not uncommon for such families to live in apartments if the cost in their areas is high. we again knew a couple of such neighbours.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 14 Feb 2017 12:35

I saw the few episodes Tv serial "Justified" recently. Also some like that on Netflix. Many areas of US has a look of serious poverty. But media seems to have forgotten about them. If there are Bharat and India in here, it seems that they have the US and "the US" there. Two nations. We at least speak about Villages etc. thanks to Mahatma Gandhi etc., but the media in the US seems to be closed to these people. We, outsiders, also do not know them. We see the glitter of Hollywood and then think that is the US.

Obama's statement the people who cling to their guns the Bible may apply to a lot of these people. What else they have and can get in theirs life?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby LokeshC » 14 Feb 2017 12:35

Singhaji,

The sad part is not one politician gives a number 2. On either side.

Except maybe Bernie.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 14 Feb 2017 12:40

This is why Bernie and DZee got a lot of traction with a large section of the population. No wonder Bernie needed to lose and lost he is.Zee got EJ support and here he is as the President.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Prasant » 14 Feb 2017 12:59

Poverty in Massa is at multiple levels. Not too far from the >$25 Million townhouses of Upper East Side is the Bronx. I've volunteered there with an organization that pairs you up with a school kid to 'mentor' him/her. Most come from single parent families, and many don't have a father or a father figure in their lives. The urban poor are mostly Black or Latino.

On the other hand, most rural poor are white. I've met many from Oregon, Pennsylvania, Maine etc, and there are no jobs there to speak of, so they venture out into bigger cities like New York/Boston/LA/SF etc. Simple things like healthcare is a nightmare. One woman that I knew was paying off hospital bills from 3 years ago.
Desis both of the ITvity kind and the Finance/Startup kind don't really see that part of America. On the other hand, I've often been appalled to see the JNU jholawallahs living in urban ghettos in the Bronx/Brooklyn/Washington Heights, ostensibly to save money, but they also end up doing a lot of equal equal about oppression in desh and Massa.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Feb 2017 13:05

Yagnasri wrote:So the general problem is the lack of local funding in poor areas. Then how it is going to be solved with the solutions offered by the GOP like Vouchers? Maybe charter schools are a way out to some of the problems. Wiki uncle has info which suggests that they have a reasonable record.

I wish more gurus here throw light on the basic education in the US here and health care administration. We do not read much about them here. For us, if is tough to understand the reasons for kids in the US not having a good education at High School level.


Public schools in the US are a function of state government funding and not central govt. funding. Until 1978, there was no US Dept. of Education. Independent School Districts (ISDs) get all of their funding from property and local taxes. In the case of California there is a state proposition (prop. 13 from 1978) which limits property taxes, hence limiting funding for local public schools. This helps older people keep their paid off properties in places like the Bay Area and Southern California suburbs where property prices have shot through the roof in the last 30 years. Better run ISDs within California and other states have good public schools, but property prices are much higher. In Texas some ISDs are discussing that poor children clean toilets in the school to compensate costs along with paying a few hundred Dollars to participate in sports like American football. Again, this is all legal since the ISDs aren't violating state and federal laws.

Health care in the US is not viewed as universal right. Health care must be subjected to full market forces to reduce costs like any other goods and services. What Republicans want is complete withdrawal of Obamacare and full deregulation of the health care industry. They would just as soon outsource doctor consultations to India and use nurses and physician assistants for routine health care to reduce costs.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Feb 2017 13:15

Health care is one of those things poorly delivered by the free market. Americans are caught in an ideological trap of their own making.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Prasant » 14 Feb 2017 13:24

In Massa, a lot of amenities and public services are funded locally. This includes the local thullas and fire department. Much of the PD is funded by speeding fines and parking tickets, as an example.

In theory, Healthcare can be delivered cheaper when there's private competition, but with all the lobbying that goes on at the local level as well as in DC, it's never the free markets at play.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Feb 2017 14:33

if you want to see poverty in america from a relatively safe distance (i.e. not on foot in harlem or the south side) then take the train from washington dc to new york - passes through some quite run down areas, predominantly but not exclusively black. alternatively take a drive through native american reservations in arizona

it is not quite india, but the contrast is staggering

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Feb 2017 14:33

so the real question is - who will replace flynn?

kellog is acting NSA, but seems to have some clouds over him

rumours are circulating about petraeus being on his way to whitehouse...

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 15:10

A_Gupta wrote:Health care is one of those things poorly delivered by the free market. Americans are caught in an ideological trap of their own making.


Yes its a pavlovian trap in refusal to even think. Mention the word socialist and people will start giving looks

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby schinnas » 14 Feb 2017 15:13

Petraeus would make a good NSA. He has a good temperament and has clarity of thought. He is not given to emotional outbursts and lack of temperament like Flynn. Since Trump himself lacks temperament needed of a leader, it is critical that he surrounds himself with leaders who have a good head on their shoulders. Petraeus would be a welcome addition to Trump's cabinet.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Feb 2017 16:20

Prasant wrote:In Massa, a lot of amenities and public services are funded locally. This includes the local thullas and fire department. Much of the PD is funded by speeding fines and parking tickets, as an example.

Unfortunately, this is true. As the Police is controlled by the local city, law enforcement is not uniform. High crime areas are poor, so the police is poor. Low crime area are rich and the police is rich. Where policing is needed, there is none. Where none is needed, there are many. I worked for 24 years with the law enforcement and I can only tell us desis to avoid Police/Sheriffs and never to argue with them, never volunteer information, and answer what is asked.If Miranda is given ask for a lawyer, preferably your own. Public defenders often work for them.
Gautam

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby JohnTitor » 14 Feb 2017 17:27

sureshhh wrote:For the hindu rw, anyone who even pretends to be anti-muslim is a friend/ally or even a savior. Goes on to show that hindu rw, aside from being impotent, is also dumb.

Problem is, India punches well below its weight. Hindus even more so. We are the only country in the world where the majority is effectively a minority.

Why should the US or anyone else do anything about Pakistan when itself isn't? India constantly shoots itself in the foot with things like aman ki asha, the lit festival, bollywood catering to Pakistani actors, IPL teams using Pakistani coaches etc.

Everyone is quick to point how much the US backs Israel. These same people fail to notice Israel does what it feels is best for its people and nation. Its people go out and lobby on behalf of their nation. How many Indian caucuses are there? How many Indians support (financially or otherwise) these caucuses? Domestically, which party stands and works for Hindu causes? The BJP doesn't give two-hoots for their slain party workers and cadre who are being murdered.

India/Indians/Hindus first need to get their act together and support their own and do what they feel is right before expecting others to come to their aid.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 14 Feb 2017 17:37

http://observer.com/2017/02/nick-brana- ... e-sanders/

Who is more progressive now is the question.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 19:46

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/ameri ... index.html

refugees walking across the canadian border in hordes...

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby TSJones » 14 Feb 2017 20:17

Singha wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/americas/refugees-flee-united-states-for-canada/index.html

refugees walking across the canadian border in hordes...


all I gotta say is............ :)

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 20:19

I second TSJ. They are welcome to move to Canada. If they are 'Peacefuls', it is even better because they lesser they are, the better off the rest of us are.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 20:20

most of the so called refugees flooding into europe are basically economic migrants flying under cover of being refugees fleeing war and threats to life.

whatever seats at the table, that better qualified indics and sinics would take, they are taking . but perhaps that is preferred - a new underclass to fill the low end jobs which none want to do.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Zynda » 14 Feb 2017 20:28

I don't see or hear huge Indian migration to EU (except Britain) like US. Of course, language is the major barrier for Indics in EU. Still...a graduated economic migration for low-end jobs would have been preferable than just open the door to flood types.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby TSJones » 14 Feb 2017 20:29

...and they can take their welfare fraud and honor killings with them also. granted that is the extreme few, but still....... :)

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 20:33

Singha wrote:most of the so called refugees flooding into europe are basically economic migrants flying under cover of being refugees fleeing war and threats to life.

whatever seats at the table, that better qualified indics and sinics would take, they are taking . but perhaps that is preferred - a new underclass to fill the low end jobs which none want to do.


"jobs that none want to do" is another myth like "we don't have local 'talent', so we need to ship from India". If there is enough money in it, there will be someone to do it, or someone who will figure out a way to turn that into a business. If you don't have money to eat, you will do any kind of work. The other option is to die.

The "no one will do" myth is because employers want things to get done for peanuts, so they can justify coolies from abroad paying chillar. Whether it is farming or IT, it's the same scam.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 14 Feb 2017 21:06

There actually are jobs that no one will do. If you are going to force agri industry to hire legals and pay more -

1. their costs will go higher than imports and they will quickly lose market and perish. The consumer dude who talks big about all this stuff will never put his money where his mouth is. He will only opt for the lower priced tomato even it is only 5c less.

2. they actually don't have local legal labor at same productivity, for many of the work - vegetable picking etc.

These are all real issues. Just flippantly arguing without going deeper into details is of no use. Check actual work requirements, productivity, pattern of work, cost structure etc.

saying people on welfare should move to a farm and work sounds tough, but is not a workable policy.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 21:15

Kjo's brave talk aside, the roaring popularity of walmart even as a grocery and sams club/BJs types indicates people will just run with the cheapest in most departments ... americans buy a lot , so cheap stuff in bulk helps. its perhaps the only nation on the lords earth, where I saw people carrying home 48 packs of toilet paper, or large industrial sized drums of tomato puree ..... people are always prepping for some use cases. everyones garage seemed to be stacked with "stuff" - upto the roof :twisted: wuff wuff

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 21:24

A falsehood sold to the world to drive wages down. When one is hungry, one will do whatever is needed to be done. Economy always adjusts.

Singha, it depends. When we were "poor" and I was starting off in my career and wife was not working, we went to Walmart quite often. For groceries, we went to the local store owned by a Hispanic fellow. Now? after many years and 2 incomes, the wife insists on grocery only from Whole Foods (onleee organic will do for the nanhas) and we don't even go to Walmart. She stopped clothes shopping at Walmart a year after we got married. This is the trend with everybody especially desis who are very upwardly mobile. Kunal & Neha buy Lacoste for the whole family and Neha thalofies pooris in them. High end shoes for the daughter also.

Walmart these days is haunted by the TCS types who live 5 to an apartment room. I have visited a school friend who was in this situation about 15 years ago so I know what it looks like.

So if Walmart goes away, what happens? Nothing. Another store will take it's place for the lower income people. Or they will be forced to pay more. I personally will not be affected since I think Walmart is mostly Chinese junk.

Summary: Low income people shop at Walmart for groceries. As they rise up, they do not. Next visit, ask Mrs RB where she shops. :) Poor RB must be losing hair already. :((

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Paul » 14 Feb 2017 21:29

[quote][/She stopped clothes shopping at Walmart a year after we got married. This is the trend with everybody.]

±++++++++

Shows how much you know about life. You are being presumptuous here about other Desi's working in top cos.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 21:31

Gus wrote:There actually are jobs that no one will do. If you are going to force agri industry to hire legals and pay more -

1. their costs will go higher than imports and they will quickly lose market and perish. The consumer dude who talks big about all this stuff will never put his money where his mouth is. He will only opt for the lower priced tomato even it is only 5c less.

2. they actually don't have local legal labor at same productivity, for many of the work - vegetable picking etc.

These are all real issues. Just flippantly arguing without going deeper into details is of no use. Check actual work requirements, productivity, pattern of work, cost structure etc.

saying people on welfare should move to a farm and work sounds tough, but is not a workable policy.


People have to eat. If costs go up, they will sell for more. Everyone has to sell for more, and everyone pays more. Market adjusts. If you are in a desert and Abdul has a water bottle and demands $1000 for it, you will pay up. You have no choice.

You have just bought into the notion spread by the ones who have turned everything into a commodity.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 21:31

Paul wrote:
[/She stopped clothes shopping at Walmart a year after we got married. This is the trend with everybody.]

±++++++++

Shows how much you know about life. You are being presumptuous here about other Desi's working in top cos.


Sir, why don't you educate me then?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Paul » 14 Feb 2017 21:33

Time and life are best teachers! Patience!!!!

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby NRao » 14 Feb 2017 21:36

Economist: Trump is 'playing with fire' on trade

"On trade, I think he's playing with fire here," CNN Economic Analyst Stephen Moore told hosts Kevin Madden and Mary Katharine Ham on CNN's Party People podcast. "And I think the idea of a tariff against Mexico is a terrible idea. I think it would hurt Mexico a lot, and I think it would hurt American consumers as well. We don't need a trade war with Mexico."

The White House has floated the idea of imposing a 20% tax on imports from Mexico, in order to pay for Trump's proposed southern border wall. However, the White House says Trump is weighing other options.

Moore also said he views Trump's trade policy with China differently.

"I kind of approve of some of the things he's doing on China," he said. "I think he views China as an adversary, and I've come to the conclusion that they are a bit of an adversary militarily, and economically. They're playing a different game economically. They don't play by the rules. They do cheat, they do steal, and I think taking a tougher stance with China is overdue."

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby bharotshontan » 14 Feb 2017 22:00

There are a lot of items that make blue-collar labor in the US uncompetitive in a true free-market system, which is where the undocumented's thrive. For example, consider a person making a move, perhaps as trivial as within the same neighborhood. The cost of hiring movers via official lines for a small move like this can be upwards of $2000, anything cross-country is >$5000. Now this doesn't imply the movers themselves are some mega-money making job that pays >$100/hr. Their job probably pays a slight tick above retail work. Its not even that because they are not independent contractors but working for a company, that the massive cost out the customer's pocket is feeding the enterprise in its profit generation. Bulk of that money is going towards covering for lawsuits in case of damage to your furniture, workman's comp in case of injury to the worker, etc. So out of that $5000 you shelled out to the company, your mover made $800 at the most from that move. These sort of things are also mandated by state and federal laws (after all, the US was also an informal economy like India's for a long period of time, and it was once things reached a critical point that all these litigations governing baseline coverages began to enter the system and in effect render the US blue-collar class globally uncompetitive).

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 22:08

looking at need to protect ones flanks with 3-layer ERA of insurance there, do the insurance cos make huge profits there ?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 14 Feb 2017 22:49

Prasant wrote:In theory, Healthcare can be delivered cheaper when there's private competition, but with all the lobbying that goes on at the local level as well as in DC, it's never the free markets at play.


even if we buy into the argument that with "truly free market will reduce costs by competition" -

there is always the fundamental issue of 'should healthcare be subject to profit motive?'

if companies do lower premiums, they make it up with denials and gotchas in T&C.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 14 Feb 2017 22:50

bharotshontan wrote:There are a lot of items that make blue-collar labor in the US uncompetitive in a true free-market system, which is where the undocumented's thrive. For example, consider a person making a move, perhaps as trivial as within the same neighborhood. The cost of hiring movers via official lines for a small move like this can be upwards of $2000, anything cross-country is >$5000. Now this doesn't imply the movers themselves are some mega-money making job that pays >$100/hr. Their job probably pays a slight tick above retail work. Its not even that because they are not independent contractors but working for a company, that the massive cost out the customer's pocket is feeding the enterprise in its profit generation. Bulk of that money is going towards covering for lawsuits in case of damage to your furniture, workman's comp in case of injury to the worker, etc. So out of that $5000 you shelled out to the company, your mover made $800 at the most from that move. These sort of things are also mandated by state and federal laws (after all, the US was also an informal economy like India's for a long period of time, and it was once things reached a critical point that all these litigations governing baseline coverages began to enter the system and in effect render the US blue-collar class globally uncompetitive).


good post. of course the flip side is, in a litigious nation and culture, if you are NOT paying up for legal protection and insurance, you can be cleaned out by the other party.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 23:00

Paul wrote:Time and life are best teachers! Patience!!!!


:rotfl:

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Atmavik » 14 Feb 2017 23:06

Singha wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/americas/refugees-flee-united-states-for-canada/index.html

refugees walking across the canadian border in hordes...


we need that damn WALL on the Shamali border. i have been saying this for a while now.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ldev » 14 Feb 2017 23:47

The US and Canada have a "safe country" refugee return agreement in place. What this means is that if a refugee shows up at a border crossing from either country, they will be sent back because each country deems the other to be "safe" for refugees. But this agreement does not apply if a refugee crosses the border across a field/river etc. These refugees fleeing Trump are aware of all these loopholes and are using them to apply as refugees in Canada. But if the trickle of refugees going north into Canada becomes a flood I can see the Canadian welcome mat being yanked out very quickly.


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