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Understanding US thread-III

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Ardeshir
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Ardeshir » 15 Feb 2017 00:17

Gus wrote:
Prasant wrote:In theory, Healthcare can be delivered cheaper when there's private competition, but with all the lobbying that goes on at the local level as well as in DC, it's never the free markets at play.


even if we buy into the argument that with "truly free market will reduce costs by competition" -

there is always the fundamental issue of 'should healthcare be subject to profit motive?'

if companies do lower premiums, they make it up with denials and gotchas in T&C.

Yes, the moral argument can be made, and I do find myself sympathetic towards that argument. However, there is also the case that lower costs could be delivered, if competition is at its peak. There is also a supply + demand factor however. All together, there are no clear cut answers to this, and usually I find people spouting the party line rather than a well thought out rebuttal.

bharotshontan
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby bharotshontan » 15 Feb 2017 00:56

Gus wrote:
bharotshontan wrote:There are a lot of items that make blue-collar labor in the US uncompetitive in a true free-market system, which is where the undocumented's thrive. For example, consider a person making a move, perhaps as trivial as within the same neighborhood. The cost of hiring movers via official lines for a small move like this can be upwards of $2000, anything cross-country is >$5000. Now this doesn't imply the movers themselves are some mega-money making job that pays >$100/hr. Their job probably pays a slight tick above retail work. Its not even that because they are not independent contractors but working for a company, that the massive cost out the customer's pocket is feeding the enterprise in its profit generation. Bulk of that money is going towards covering for lawsuits in case of damage to your furniture, workman's comp in case of injury to the worker, etc. So out of that $5000 you shelled out to the company, your mover made $800 at the most from that move. These sort of things are also mandated by state and federal laws (after all, the US was also an informal economy like India's for a long period of time, and it was once things reached a critical point that all these litigations governing baseline coverages began to enter the system and in effect render the US blue-collar class globally uncompetitive).


good post. of course the flip side is, in a litigious nation and culture, if you are NOT paying up for legal protection and insurance, you can be cleaned out by the other party.


Correct, except the undocumented help you hired from in front of Home Depot is not in a position to take you to the courts to claim compensation from falling down the stairs while moving your furniture. These people are in the small informal "black" economy that the US does have. Not sure what the costs of trying to remove this will be on the overall economy. Pinch will be felt in all strata of middle and upper classes.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Feb 2017 02:40

petraeus would be a good choice for NSA and he is well liked by both parties, but his previous fall from grace needs to be thought through... who leaked it? why?

there is another in the running, an ex navy seal vice adm called harward - he may be the stalking horse candidate

flynn's departure actually raises more questions about the russian connection - not less, it is suggested that trump knew about the links and the cover up for weeks

there could also be a palace war on under the covers - deep state, alt-right, establishment, republicans... many factions, many grievances... trump may be smart... or perhaps he's seriously out of his depth...?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 02:47

trump may be smart... or perhaps he's seriously out of his depth...?

looks more like that dog that caught the car.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby sudeepj » 15 Feb 2017 03:49

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/her ... ?page=show

Emboldened by the unexpected demise of the Soviet Union, neoconservatives and liberal-internationalist hawks made common cause, first over war in the Balkans, then in Iraq. This consolidation of neocons and liberal hawks had been foreshadowed in a 1990 essay by Charles Krauthammer in the National Interest called “Universal Dominion: Toward a Unipolar World.” In it, Krauthammer said that America’s purpose was obvious. He called for a confederated West that would inexorably spread its values around the world. Krauthammer wrote that its creation would require “the conscious depreciation not only of American sovereignty, but of the notion of sovereignty in general.”
Even more expansive were the claims of liberal internationalists such as Thomas Friedman who saw a new age of globalization dawning—and ignored the fact that Europe had never been more unified than on the eve of World War I. Their catechisms about globalization carried echoes of the Communist Manifesto:
National differences and antagonisms between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.
In many ways, the beliefs expressed by Friedman and others in the beneficent effects of globalization are part of the DNA of modern liberalism. John Stuart Mill, for example, believed that global trade would not only suppress the inclination to war, but also elevate humanity. He wrote,
It is hardly possible to overrate the value, in the present low state of human improvement, of placing human beings in contact with persons dissimilar to themselves, and with modes of thought and action unlike those with which they are familiar. . . . It is commerce which is rapidly rendering war obsolete, by strengthening and multiplying the personal interests which are in natural opposition to it.
The belief in the obsolescence of war was disseminated by Friedman and others. Even as the latest proponents of globalization touted its benefits, however, there were dissenting voices. One of the earliest was Samuel Huntington in the National Interest in 2004. Huntington decried the rise of the cosmopolitan Davos Man. The very word Davos should have set off alarm bells among the international elites who traveled there to mingle and feel good about themselves. Davos was, of course, the Alpine retreat where Thomas Mann based his famous 1924 novel The Magic Mountain, presenting what might be called the first Davos Man. In his novel, Mann mocks the humanist Lodovico Settembrini, who beguiles the protagonist Hans Castorp with visions of a League of International Justice for Progress that is supposed to banish all of mankind’s afflictions. The Magic Mountain concludes with Castorp about to die in combat in World War I. That era’s authors harbored none of the illusions about the universality of mankind that have periodically afflicted the great and mighty: Italo Svevo’s Confessions of Zeno, which was published just one year before The Magic Mountain, in 1923, has the affable Zeno watching in bewilderment, towards the conclusion, as he gets caught up in the fighting in Trieste, on the border between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Italy.
Huntington did not allude to Mann, but he assailed the “gold-collar workers” who scorned the nation-state and traditional communities. He depicted them as a gilded cohort that “have little need for national loyalty, view national boundaries as obstacles that thankfully are vanishing, and see national governments as residues from the past whose only useful function is to facilitate the elite’s global operations.”


Thought provoking read.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 04:22

Gus wrote:trump may be smart... or perhaps he's seriously out of his depth...?

looks more like that dog that caught the car.

More like Peter Principle.

One thing that is not adding up. Flynn's conversation happened in Dec and the Obama admin must have known about it and the US intel had transcripts. So why did they keep quiet? Just to embarrass Trump?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 05:26

You say Dec, but what date? Dec 29 was sanction date. So when did Flynn speak?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 05:36

Dec. 29, 2016 — Obama administration unveils sanctions against Russia for election-related hacking, expelling diplomats and shutting down two compounds. The same day, Flynn speaks to Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak by phone.


Sometime after Dec. 30, 2016 — The FBI reviews intercepts and finds the Flynn-Kislyak conversation. The matter gets folded into the FBI's ongoing probe into Russian election-related hacking and related issues.


Link

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 05:46

Inauguration was 20th. I don't think Obama administration had any great plans about this. They were more into getting last minute EO and stuff.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 06:01

Flynn called the Russian Embassy FIVE times that day. Was he 'asked' to do that? If so by who? Is he falling on his sword now? He was in intelligence before and so would know about the intercepts. Would he be so careless unless he was under pressure and took a chance? (CT :wink: )

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 06:16

With trump in the mix, we have to include all sorts of theories as anything is possible now. Can't rule out...

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby TSJones » 15 Feb 2017 06:40

there was no chance taking.....it was just sheer stupidity. Flynn was a national security advisor and he didn't know his conversation would be monitored by US Intel? and then lied to the vice president? what planet is he from?

from the first monosyllable from his mouth there was a supercomputer parsing, dicing and farting data to a real time, monitoring, free bird institute officer.

everything electronic that goes to a Russian from the US is monitored. EVERYTHING. duh. wake up sunshine!

and what's the use of lying about it to the VP?

good bye and good riddance.

geezus. :roll:

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby komal » 15 Feb 2017 07:20

Gus wrote:With trump in the mix, we have to include all sorts of theories as anything is possible now. Can't rule out...


Russians are fully entrenching themselves into the WH. Flynn is a just smokescreen to make it look like Trump is tough.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 07:23

komal wrote:
Gus wrote:With trump in the mix, we have to include all sorts of theories as anything is possible now. Can't rule out...


Russians are fully entrenching themselves into the WH. Flynn is a just smokescreen to make it look like Trump is tough.


We DO have a sleeper (or will be shortly) in the White House (literally), if you missed :D

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 07:31

TSJones wrote:there was no chance taking.....it was just sheer stupidity.

:roll:


His behavior is bizarre, to say the least. He spoke FIVE times. You do not become general if you are stupid. So what is the explanation? Was he trying to ward off the retaliatory sanctions from Russia (which normally happen within twenty four hours) at the behest of his boss who can then claim making a successful deal as is his wont. Dean refused to be thrown under the bus and so brought down a President but Flynn?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 07:40

What is even more puzzling is throwing Flynn under the bus. Why? It's not like they cannot weasel out of any Logan act issues. And it's not like the admin actually cares about such outrage. There is more stuff and this is damage limitation?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lilo » 15 Feb 2017 08:15

Berkeley aftermath through two interviews given to a fox anchor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moNe7-sK8i8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4di8KuECO7U

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2017 08:20

Nobody speaks 5 times to russian amby withouthis boss being in loop

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby darshan » 15 Feb 2017 08:46

Was Trump his real boss or someone else? Republican leads in the US congress seem to be way too anxious about this one.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2017 08:56

5 calls indicate a track2 pattern of conferring again and again after looping the big bosses in at both ends.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby chanakyaa » 15 Feb 2017 08:59

Looks like DT camp is livid about those leaking call details. I bet Billary Klinton must have called DT and said "Now you know why kept a private email server, next time use cheap calling cards (1.9 cents a minute)" :rotfl:

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2017 09:01

Ot but funny. Sweden funding a camel petting park to better integrate refugees..

https://www.rt.com/news/377359-sweden-m ... amel-park/

At this rate next thing will be a halal nikaah tinder app to have the hungry hordes get access to uncovered meat for temporary marriages like old arabs do in certain quarters of hyd

Nordics are out of their minds. The nanny state is responsible for breakdown of family in richer portions of europe imo...with cradle to grave benefits by mai baap sarkar few hv a incentive fr hard work of raising family in a stable marriage or even save much...its work spend travel drink and enjoy.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Feb 2017 09:06

Disappointing. DT needs to clean-sweep out his acquired team of DC experts. He should have brazened it out over Flynn/Rooskies saying, hey, Obama tried to start WW3 with Russia 10 days before my inauguration, so I sent Flynn to calm down the Russians and promise better relations down the line because we need to join forces and defeat the ISIS. It was essential, and I am proud of it.
Now the whinos are going after KellyAnn Conway next.

FakeNews headlines like "Trump Aides Spoke to Russians During Campaign" need to be exposed, saying, sure, all foreign governments try to establish good relations with both political parties in the US as elections approach, hain?
Time to replace the entire Donkey-holdover DC crowd.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ArmenT » 15 Feb 2017 09:34

bharotshontan wrote:
Gus wrote:
good post. of course the flip side is, in a litigious nation and culture, if you are NOT paying up for legal protection and insurance, you can be cleaned out by the other party.


Correct, except the undocumented help you hired from in front of Home Depot is not in a position to take you to the courts to claim compensation from falling down the stairs while moving your furniture. These people are in the small informal "black" economy that the US does have. Not sure what the costs of trying to remove this will be on the overall economy. Pinch will be felt in all strata of middle and upper classes.

One time when we moved, I did indeed hire a few guys standing outside Home Depot to help. However, for the last time we moved, we actually got Meathead Movers (which generally hires student athletes to move stuff) to move most of the stuff. Reason: they know how to move furniture and heavy items properly and came with their own moving truck. With the undocumented guys in front of Home Depot, you never know what you're going to get -- they ended up stacking heavy boxes on top of light ones and crushed the contents of a few of them, plus they weren't always all that enthusiastic to help with moving items either. And when you have good quality furniture and electronics, it becomes worth it to pay the extra amount.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby NRao » 15 Feb 2017 09:53

First Flynn gets fired (2nd time by a Pres).

Russians erupt, some warning relations may turn worse.

Now In first under Trump, Russian jets buzzed a U.S. destroyer at close range

Things sure are getting funnily serious.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby NRao » 15 Feb 2017 10:00

NYT reporting that Trump aides convo with Russians were intercepted.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Karthik S » 15 Feb 2017 10:02

NRao wrote:First Flynn gets fired (2nd time by a Pres).

Russians erupt, some warning relations may turn worse.

Now In first under Trump, Russian jets buzzed a U.S. destroyer at close range

Things sure are getting funnily serious.


Why would roos do that? Isn't DT looking forward to improving relations with Russia?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 10:10

Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign

Per Trump Fake News

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby saip » 15 Feb 2017 10:13

It is like Indian Politicians' aides asking ISI for help. This is getting curiouser by the minute.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby NRao » 15 Feb 2017 10:21


Melwyn

Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Melwyn » 15 Feb 2017 10:30

^ Wonder why all these did not come out during elections? I think the deep state was letting DT and gang dig the hole deeper so that they can't get out easily.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2017 10:36

Correct. Cia and nsa seems to be fully plugged in pun intended

People will dive on swords to save the boss but impeachment or resignation could be in a few months

This will drive the bannon types furious

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2017 11:27

this mike pence seems to be the deep state/old guard's man in the current team. Supposedly it is on his testimoney that flynn was 'convicted' and pence is never attacked in media. So making a list.

Steve bannon, steve miller, shaun spicer, flynn : nationalist, right wing upstarts

pence, priebus?, fifth column embedded in intelligence agencies: deep state agents

So NSA can remove this fifth column and that's the reason the old guard was so touchy about Flynn who knows exactly whom to weed out.

This is clear victory for anti-russian deep state. To be able to knock down the key intelligence and military adviser of the US president within a month is truly a significant blow.

The Pentagon, CIA and the rest want a war with russia, they're obsessed with this nonsense.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby habal » 15 Feb 2017 12:22

the saker has thrown in the towel

The Neocons and the “deep state” have neutered the Trump Presidency, it’s over folks!


Flynn was very much the cornerstone of the hoped-for Trump foreign policy. There was a real chance that he would reign in the huge, bloated and all-powerful three letter agencies and that he would focus US power against the real enemy of the West: the Wahabis.


http://thesaker.is/the-neocons-and-the- ... ver-folks/

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2017 13:12

Ndtv...yawn

Houston: An Indian-origin NASA scientist has said he was detained and forced to unlock his PIN-protected work phone at the US border by custom officials.

Sidd Bikkannavar, 35, said in a post on social media that US Customs and Border Protection officers wanted his cell phone and password -- before they would let him through at Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

"On my way home to the US last weekend, I was detained by Homeland Security and held with others who were stranded under the Muslim ban," Mr Bikkannavar wrote in a Facebook post.

"I initially refused, since it's a (NASA)-issued phone and I must protect access," he
Mr Bikkannavar, born in Pasadena, designs technology for space telescopes like the enormous James Webb telescope that's set to be launched into orbit in 2018.

"Just to be clear - I'm a US-born citizen and NASA engineer, travelling with a valid US passport. Once they took both my phone and the access PIN, they returned me to the holding area with cots and other sleeping detainees until they finished copying my data."

Mr Bikkannavar spent a few weeks away pursuing his hobby of racing solar-powered cars.

As a member of a Chilean team, he visited Patagonia in early January under the Obama administration. He returned after Mr Trump took office and issued the executive order on travel into the United States.

Nothing about Mr Bikkannavar should have caused concern for CBP - he's a natural-born US citizen, enrolled in a programme that allows individuals who've already passed background checks to quickly enter the country.

In addition, he has never visited the countries on the immigration ban, and he's 10-year employee of a major US federal agency.

"I don't know what to think about this. I was caught a little off guard by the whole thing," Mr Bikkannavar told the media.

Mr Bikkannavar detailed his experience on Facebook, explaining his absence to friends and coworkers.

The episode, aside from the profiling it ostensibly involved, also put him in a fix with his employers, because he was required to protect access to the phone.

"I'm back home, and JPL has been running forensics on the phone to determine what CBP/homeland security might have taken, or whether they installed anything on the device,"
Mr Bikkannavar explained in the post, adding that he has also been working with JPL legal counsel and the lab has issued him a new phone and new phone number.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) filed numerous complaints in January against CBP for demanding that Muslim-American citizens give up their social media information when they return home from overseas.

Earlier this week, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly issued a statement in response, telling the House Homeland Security Committee, "We want to get on their social media, with passwords: What do you do, what do you say? If they don't want to cooperate then you don't come in".

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby devesh » 15 Feb 2017 13:15

UlanBatori wrote:Disappointing. DT needs to clean-sweep out his acquired team of DC experts. He should have brazened it out over Flynn/Rooskies saying, hey, Obama tried to start WW3 with Russia 10 days before my inauguration, so I sent Flynn to calm down the Russians and promise better relations down the line because we need to join forces and defeat the ISIS. It was essential, and I am proud of it.
Now the whinos are going after KellyAnn Conway next.

FakeNews headlines like "Trump Aides Spoke to Russians During Campaign" need to be exposed, saying, sure, all foreign governments try to establish good relations with both political parties in the US as elections approach, hain?
Time to replace the entire Donkey-holdover DC crowd.



The bureaucracy smells blood and they're going for the kill. Conway is clearly the next target. The way Chaffetz and other republicans are targeting her...if Trump looses his nerve now, it's game over. Weakness begets weakness. And the bureaucracy is everywhere skilled at smelling weakness.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Feb 2017 15:47

there is a need to remove incompetence too

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Gus » 15 Feb 2017 16:29

amitkv wrote:^ Wonder why all these did not come out during elections? I think the deep state was letting DT and gang dig the hole deeper so that they can't get out easily.


It was reported a week or so before election. The Comey story was bigger. But reports were there ...

This from Jan 15 - why would somebody ask pence these questions.on that date if revelations are only done now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... bc41734e7a

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby komal » 15 Feb 2017 17:14

Singha wrote:Ndtv...yawn

Houston: An Indian-origin NASA scientist has said he was detained and forced to unlock his PIN-protected work phone at the US border by custom officials.


Pity, he wasn't born in Karachi or Riyadh -- he would have been welcomed with open arms as he is a victim of terrorism only.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Feb 2017 18:13

Singha wrote:Ndtv...yawn
Houston: An Indian-origin NASA scientist has said he was detained and forced to unlock his PIN-protected work phone at the US border by custom officials.


1. It is a Federal felony offence to go into a Federal website that is password protected when one has no business there. And most certainly, if they obtained the password using duress. So the TSA agints were either taking a huge risk or they were entirely entitled to do what they did. I mean, if JPL complains then the agints can expect visits from ppl in dark glasses carrying nice plastic/shiny steel bangles and to spend the next 10 years of their life in courts, torture chambers or courts and to be absolutely destroyed.
2. So why did someone on a "personal trip" have a secure Federal gizmo? Oh, yes! So that JPL could call him. But they could do that on a personal cell phone too. So again, why did someone on a "personal trip" have a secure Federal gizmo?
3. What if Chile had detained him and seized the phone? Apparently China seizes laptops where they can hope to steal anything.
4. What happens if someone tries to enter India carrying a sat-phone, government issue or otherwise?
5. Anyone traveling abroad even from universities signs a form that asks whether they are carrying any computer/disk with sensitive info, because search and seizure are more of less expected, if not theft. Ppl are STRONGLY advised not to travel with any such thing even on business trips. Not even MatLab which is not permitted for export.
6. So if you say you were on a personal trip, but are found to be carrying a secured Federal gadget, then it is perfectly to be expected that the Feds will ask what you carried and why, and check that out.
7. IOW, the net result is that he was carrying nothing sensitive, or he would be in jail now.
Most ppl arrested and convicted for espionage in the US are US-born US citizens, AFAIK.


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