Understanding US thread-III

komal · Post by **komal** » 10 Feb 2017 11:15

kiranA wrote:China, I suspect, may be a major beneficiary of Trump administration.Along with China the sunni middle east is another major beneficiary.

Russia is another big winner. And, oddly, Pakistan -- whose citizens are not considered likely to be anti-American terrorists!

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 10 Feb 2017 11:28

LOL! What will happen to all the Hindu RW who were worshipping for DT's win. DT will change the world forever by handing over the reign of the world to chinis. Akhand bharat dream will be khand only.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 10 Feb 2017 11:41

^^hope never matches reality - that goes for those on this forum as well as all those in you-ess heartlands..
India, as has been mentioned many times, needs to be strong enough in herself. So nothing really changes in practical terms.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Feb 2017 11:52

HC would have also done the same in much more fast and worst manner. Support to DT was more due to what we were expecting from any HC admin.

As far as we are concerned, we ourselves do not consider Pakis are terrorist and pakiland as a terrorist nation. It needed a private number to bring legislation to declare pakiland as a terrorist nation. BJP or INC have not done it. The World will support us if we are ready to do what is needed to be done.

komal · Post by **komal** » 10 Feb 2017 12:08

Yagnasri wrote:HC would have also done the same in much more fast and worst manner. Support to DT was more due to what we were expecting from any HC admin.

As far as we are concerned, we ourselves do not consider Pakis are terrorist and pakiland as a terrorist nation. It needed a private number to bring legislation to declare pakiland as a terrorist nation. BJP or INC have not done it. The World will support us if we are ready to do what is needed to be done.

What India does or does not do WRT Pakistan should have had no influence on the WH. Importantly, putting Pakistan on the list would have sent a powerful message to China that Trump doesn't care what they think.

Instead, he is on the world stage looking like a hero to those who hate the brown but looking like a fool to the rest of the world that know who sponsors terrorism. His white supremacist staff only cares about the former. That the ISI has scored a major victory and is now emboldened matters little to them.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Feb 2017 15:33

saip wrote:Strange thing about this order is it was so poorly drafted and even more poorly enforced. No one seemed to know what the hell the order is about. Not even the justice department was consulted. Just ego, I guess.

the order was rushed out under the direction of reichsmarshall von-bannon before the other new boys could get a look at it. hence the utter chaos in the machinery of government. the new president for life agent orange dada defender of the faith and champion of the wall builders doesn't know what powers he doesn't have and listens to his buddy stevie to tell him what to do

now that the other grown ups are starting to attend the party, we may (may... just may...) see some moderation... and if gorsuch has any decency and upholds the law (instead of going back to the fundamentals) then maybe the republic has a chance to survive

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Feb 2017 15:37

was watching a bbc interview with the residents of a small town in Montana who are very happy that agent orange is remoulding the world in their image. there was a big rant on screen from the mayor about defending Montana and their little town from the hordes of Islamic fundamentalist refugees who were going to impose sharia and rape and kill Montana women (who are all armed incidentally so be ware!)...

when asked where these hordes are... he kinda blinked a little and said it all over again... must be true then I guess

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Feb 2017 15:47

@ Komalji,

I beg to defer with you on this. No one is taking us seriously as we do not take Paki to the task even if we could. We demand the US to declare pakis to be declared as terror nation, what do nothing on our own and more ironically have Aman ki Asha cocktail circuits with them. Why should anyone support us?

Let us do something for ourselves and then ask others to help us. In fact, if we take active anti-terror operations including targetted assassinations of the main terrorist leaders then we may get a lot of support from other nations.No doubt paki lovers in US SD will have a problem with that. But we need not care for them much.

Our fundamental problem (as per AS himself) is we hit below our weight.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Feb 2017 15:57

Note the caps.they are not mine.old boy is worked up

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
SEE YOU IN COURT, THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION IS AT STAKE!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Feb 2017 16:03

as another commentator said recently - Agent Orange is used to using courts to bully his business rivals and opponents. he is not used to a court actually challenging his views on the world

I am sure the Reichsmarshall is drawing up another list for the night of the long knives...

komal · Post by **komal** » 10 Feb 2017 17:02

Yagnasri wrote:@ Komalji,

I beg to defer with you on this. No one is taking us seriously as we do not take Paki to the task even if we could. We demand the US to declare pakis to be declared as terror nation, what do nothing on our own and more ironically have Aman ki Asha cocktail circuits with them. Why should anyone support us?

Let us do something for ourselves and then ask others to help us. In fact, if we take active anti-terror operations including targetted assassinations of the main terrorist leaders then we may get a lot of support from other nations.No doubt paki lovers in US SD will have a problem with that. But we need not care for them much.

Our fundamental problem (as per AS himself) is we hit below our weight.

I appreciate your point and agree that India should sever diplomatic relations with Pakistan, seal the entire border, etc.

But the exclusion order was to prevent the flow of terrorists into the USA -- nothing at all to do with India. Almost all terror attacks on USA are from Pakistanis (even the one in San Bernadino). By excluding Pakistan, DT sent a horribly wrong signal to Islamabad.

Now, Mike Pence is from the same district as the notorious ISI operative, Dan Burton. I wonder if their is a connection?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 10 Feb 2017 17:03

Paul wrote:Trump affirms One China policy!

After all that bluster with Taiwan....

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Feb 2017 17:12

mickey pence is too busy talking to the one true god to worry much about the other one true god

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Feb 2017 19:08

For lalmohan https://nyti.ms/2ktwFNw

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Feb 2017 19:18

Singha wrote:For lalmohan https://nyti.ms/2ktwFNw

thanks - that's a good find. I was aware of most of it, and I have also known individuals who are inspired by that whole mysticism side of fascism - it is quite radical stuff. and these people are ultimately more scary than the thugs on the streets... who probably cannot spell fascist at the best of times.

I would suggest that the folks on this dhaga that pooh-pooh'ed the dangers of the alt-right a few weeks back might take some time out to read this article

also, if you (all) haven't already, do read Orwell's 1984 - it is chillingly scary and an almost believable representation of what an authoritarian world could look like if we take our eyes off the ball. it doesn't matter if its from the left or the right - its the same scary skat

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Feb 2017 19:41

I wonder how these obscure philosophers with their crazy ideas return to the arena - Leo Strauss during Bush II, and Julius Evola during Trump. Best I can tell about Evola with quick scans, he was enamored of the old Aryan theories, and such. I think I understand why Indian traditionalists insist on the adhikara to learn, because the possibility of producing nonsense is immense.

Here's a sample from someone's blog:
https://openrevolt.info/2011/10/27/the- ... ius-evola/

Fourth, Evola is to be read on the left. Not from the standpoint of egalitarianism, progressivism and humanism, such an interpretation is impossible. By the left I mean against the bourgeoisie, capitalism and liberalism. This is not a matter of course. Evola has “Orientations” and ” Men Among the Ruins”, which make it plain: the bourgeoisie is better than the proletariat, and capitalism – than the socialism. That is Evola’s mistake (based on the error of Guenon). The essence of the error is in the identification of the third estate with a third caste (Vaisya) and the third function (Dumézil), and the proletariat with the fourth caste (Sudras). Wrong. Farmers – third caste, Vaisyas and only the peasants and small artisans, who live in rural areas. Townspeople / bourgeois and proletarians / ruined peasants who migrated to the city are not the third or fourth caste. Both are social degenerates, as merchants. In Indo-European society, there are no merchants, nor citizens, nor proletarians. All of these simulacra of people emerged as parasites on the periphery of Kshatriyas fortresses designed to collect taxes (we call them cities). Capitalists – contrinitiation media, and the proletariat – degraded peasants. It should be with the peasants, even degraded, against the ******** merchants and bankers. Traditionalism is a revolution against the modern world and modern world was created by hucksters, and not the socialists and the poor deterritorialized peasants yesterday, trapped in the city and enslaved by vampire-bourgeois. The modern world – bourgeois. And the fall of the USSR shows that Guenon and Evola were wrong. The winner at the end of Kali Yuga is always just the worst. Nothing good in Communism there, but they are far better than liberals. New reading Evola: early nihilistic dadaism and late right anarchism (“Ride the Tiger”), this exit to the left evolaism

Prediction: Evola will be used to attack Hinduism. There is Sheldon Pollock who writes essentially that Germans became Nazis because they were exposed to Sanskrit literature; and now the disasters of Bannonism/Evola will also be attributed to exposure to Indian ideas.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Feb 2017 20:04

And here is Evola himself:
http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Bha ... ition.html

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Feb 2017 20:06

America is a pariah civilization:
http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Ame ... on%22.html

The recently deceased John Dewey was applauded by the American press as the most representative figure of American civilization. This is quite right. His theories are entirely representative of the vision of man and life which is the premise of Americanism and its 'democracy'.

The essence of such theories is this: that everyone can become what he wants to, within the limits of the technological means at his disposal. Equally, a person is not what he is from his true nature and there is no real difference between people, only differences in qualifications. According to this theory anyone can be anyone he wants to be if he knows how to train himself.

This is obviously the case with the 'self-made man'; in a society which has lost all sense of tradition the notion of personal aggrandizement will extend into every aspect of human existence, reinforcing the egalitarian doctrine of pure democracy. If the basis of such ideas is accepted, then all natural diversity has to be abandoned. Each person can presume to possess the potential of everyone else and the terms 'superior' and 'inferior' lose their meaning; every notion of distance and respect loses meaning; all life-styles are open to all. To all organic conceptions of life Americans oppose a mechanistic conception. In a society which has 'started from scratch', everything has the characteristic of being fabricated. In American society appearances are masks not faces. At the same time, proponents of the American way of life are hostile to personality.

The Americans' 'open-mindedness', which is sometimes cited in their favor, is the other side of their interior formlessness. The same goes for their 'individualism'. Individualism and personality are not the same: the one belongs to the formless world of quantity, the other to the world of quality and hierarchy. The Americans are the living refutation of the Cartesian axiom, "I think, therefore I am": Americans do not think, yet they are. The American 'mind', puerile and primitive, lacks characteristic form and is therefore open to every kind of standardization.

In a superior civilization, as, for example, that of the Indo-Aryans, the being who is without a characteristic form or caste (in the original meaning of the word), not even that of servant or shudra, would emerge as a pariah. In this respect America is a society of pariahs. There is a role for pariahs. It is to be subjected to beings whose form and internal laws are precisely defined. Instead the modern pariahs seek to become dominant themselves and to exercise their dominion over the entire world.

JULIUS EVOLA

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Feb 2017 20:08

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Völkisch_movement

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Feb 2017 21:36

KJo wrote:
krisna wrote: <snip>
The fun thing is to watch people go for H&D preservation purposes while dhoti yellowing is happening concurrently.
All the activity happening on desi boards frequented by L1s is proof of that.

It would have helped if the post was read and understood in its content.

people have some distress in desiboards regarding L1 etc is "putting the cart before the horse"

The same could be said about some brfites

due to visas. but this is dififcult to digest amongst some.

Anyway dont want get into this
--------------------------
law of unintended consequences in in play here in america due to unbridled capitalism with its greed.

please read my previous post - in continuity

on one hand, companies wanted to grow and grow, need to cut down costs and increase their profits, invest in R&D etc etc .

OTOH due to cold war, america enticed china(with tsp) to its side. china offered its services with low cost manufacturing as american labour charges became expensive. Here companies found it cheap to use china as a labour force .
hence over years china became manufacturing factory with major profits to american capitalism.

the american low and unskilled workers got shafted in the process- with high labour cost in america, laws and regulations in america favoring workers(relative to china),expensive education to get the required skills etc etc.

During this process , countries like India and others got some benefit individually to its citizens . a fraction of these citizens got educated at enormous cost to its other bretherens. the educational skills was what west in particular american companies wanted.

-----------------------------------------
In america companies fund the election campaign no matter what one cannot stop this in america. This is a very expensive long drawn out affair over 2 years costing millions of dollars. No wonder it is difficult for someone like NaMo to rise up in america(needs different post may be in some other thread ).

hence migration of other country talented skilled citizens began. The visas multiplied till it got some push back from american citizens in various constituenceis. hence each election campaign we have all of them vow to stop or impose controls on immigration.

But american companies always have big lobby who had their way due to the elelction campaign issue and lobby.

when shit hits the fan, orange haired guy won the elelction fair and square as vast swathes of the america has been repeatedly shafted over the last 30+ years. he promised lot of things including immigration controls etc etc.

-------------------------

enjoying what desi folks are whining is uncalled for as it the due to issuance of visas over the years has created dynamics of its own.Hence this happened.

actually it is the voice of proper america who are unskilled calling for a relook into immigration.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Feb 2017 21:41

amitkv wrote:LOL! What will happen to all the Hindu RW who were worshipping for DT's win. DT will change the world forever by handing over the reign of the world to chinis. Akhand bharat dream will be khand only.

whatever the whine, china India were top nations for most of the human history.

The world economic needle in 1960s was in atlantic , now has swung to heartland of asia. <60 years.
shortest span in the human history such dramatic swing.

India will continue to rise irrespective of western doomsday scenario if Indian way is done rather than seeing thru western lens.

Indians throughtout history have been wealth creators.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Feb 2017 21:48

Yagnasri wrote:HC would have also done the same in much more fast and worst manner. Support to DT was more due to what we were expecting from any HC admin.

As far as we are concerned, we ourselves do not consider Pakis are terrorist and pakiland as a terrorist nation. It needed a private number to bring legislation to declare pakiland as a terrorist nation. BJP or INC have not done it. The World will support us if we are ready to do what is needed to be done.

HC had a ready made machine to carry out her team work but election defeat defanged them. But DT and his govt has to do and rearrange the team- hence will take time.

This time factor if used effectively will help India. Otherwise it is similar but another factor is his personal issues to respond which will keep the media and others engaged .

. Also his destroying american media credibilty helps a lot in some Indians change their outlook from disparaging India to become neutral and some crossing over to PIF.

something is holding India from naming tsp. some ideas but not clear. hope to write on this.

anyway I do consider trump better than HC wrt India because of time factor and NaMo at helm.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Feb 2017 21:54

komal wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:@ Komalji,

I beg to defer with you on this. No one is taking us seriously as we do not take Paki to the task even if we could. We demand the US to declare pakis to be declared as terror nation, what do nothing on our own and more ironically have Aman ki Asha cocktail circuits with them. Why should anyone support us?

Let us do something for ourselves and then ask others to help us. In fact, if we take active anti-terror operations including targetted assassinations of the main terrorist leaders then we may get a lot of support from other nations.No doubt paki lovers in US SD will have a problem with that. But we need not care for them much.

Our fundamental problem (as per AS himself) is we hit below our weight.
I appreciate your point and agree that India should sever diplomatic relations with Pakistan, seal the entire border, etc.

But the exclusion order was to prevent the flow of terrorists into the USA -- nothing at all to do with India. Almost all terror attacks on USA are from Pakistanis (even the one in San Bernadino). By excluding Pakistan, DT sent a horribly wrong signal to Islamabad.

Now, Mike Pence is from the same district as the notorious ISI operative, Dan Burton. I wonder if their is a connection?

**speculation only**

India has large number of unwashed pagan abduls ripe for conversion. It needs to be kept unbalanced by having rabid dog at its door step.The reins are held by uncle. If the reins are cut , pagans will have some relief.
Indian economy should not grow as it will deter christian conversions.
christian conversions worsen when poor poverty increase.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 10 Feb 2017 22:03

krsna, if you had been reading my posts from years ago, I had always been saying that India had a great window for 15+ years with easy money. Indian IT companies should have made use of it and created alternative sources of income rather than just depending on largesse of the US. But I have noticed that many people living in India are over-confident and believe that nothing will ever go wrong and they've got it made. They believe they are smarter than everyone else and this translates into poor attitude. I have seen it myself, and my wife sees it now at her work place with these desis who need to learn how to behave professionally. Anyway, so Indian companies did not do what they should have done and while I didn't see a Trump becoming POTUS and kicking them in the nuts, I did foresee something bad happening as it always does for everyone. What happens then? No one planned for it as they fed each other lines like "India has a long way to go" or "Amreeka will collapse without us". Laughable. NRN now talks about how INFY should forget about H1B.

Now Trump may be hurting the US or helping it, it does not matter. From India's perspective, what to do? Trump will make it hard (and more fair) so that you will get opportunities if you are good, but if you are a bum, you have no chance and it would be better to go work in a mall opening doors for customers. Why is this wrong? I think it is perfectly fair and the POTUS needs to think about US citizens first, and he has no obligation to go around distributing jobs to foreigners.

The other issue is people who came here traditionally came up the hard way, took loans, studied through grad and pee-chuddi. Now the L1s are picked up from nowhere and sent here and they have degraded the market by their sheer numbers and quality (or lack there of) and this has caused a lot of anger against them. As desis, we get clubbed with them. This is pretty widespread, I am only giving voice to those feelings.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Feb 2017 00:11

"I hugged him because that's the way we feel," says @POTUS of greeting @AbeShinzo today @WhiteHouse.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Feb 2017 00:11

KJo wrote:krsna, if you had been reading my posts from years ago, I had always been saying that India had a great window for 15+ years with easy money. Indian IT companies should have made use of it and created alternative sources of income rather than just depending on largesse of the US. But I have noticed that many people living in India are over-confident and believe that nothing will ever go wrong and they've got it made. They believe they are smarter than everyone else and this translates into poor attitude. I have seen it myself, and my wife sees it now at her work place with these desis who need to learn how to behave professionally. Anyway, so Indian companies did not do what they should have done and while I didn't see a Trump becoming POTUS and kicking them in the nuts, I did foresee something bad happening as it always does for everyone. What happens then? No one planned for it as they fed each other lines like "India has a long way to go" or "Amreeka will collapse without us". Laughable. NRN now talks about how INFY should forget about H1B.

Now Trump may be hurting the US or helping it, it does not matter. From India's perspective, what to do? Trump will make it hard (and more fair) so that you will get opportunities if you are good, but if you are a bum, you have no chance and it would be better to go work in a mall opening doors for customers. Why is this wrong? I think it is perfectly fair and the POTUS needs to think about US citizens first, and he has no obligation to go around distributing jobs to foreigners.

The other issue is people who came here traditionally came up the hard way, took loans, studied through grad and pee-chuddi. Now the L1s are picked up from nowhere and sent here and they have degraded the market by their sheer numbers and quality (or lack there of) and this has caused a lot of anger against them. As desis, we get clubbed with them. This is pretty widespread, I am only giving voice to those feelings.

no quibbles but something to chew

put americans instead of desis in place. end result is the same.

if there are enough local skills L1 immigrants would not have a chance.

it is a little rich coming from some folks talking about hordes of immigrants coming into land of milk and honey depriving honest pious skilled abduls losing jobs.

people should get out of this victimhood mentality.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 11 Feb 2017 00:36

Trump is pretty quiet about taking any action against China, Saudis, Pakis etc. Hmmmmm....

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 11 Feb 2017 02:10

krisna wrote: no quibbles but something to chew

put americans instead of desis in place. end result is the same.

if there are enough local skills L1 immigrants would not have a chance.

it is a little rich coming from some folks talking about hordes of immigrants coming into land of milk and honey depriving honest pious skilled abduls losing jobs.

people should get out of this victimhood mentality.

Here is what happened.
US had enough local skills. The market was in equilibrium and software people were making good money. Then Y2K happened and suddenly the tsunami of "techies" started. Once Y2K was over, people got the idea that they could outsource more. Why pay Steve 100k when they can get by with Kumar for $30k? I can get 3 Kumars and still show savings! Bonus! Promotions! The ramifications were seen but not immediately but the execs had already moved on to another job. No one cared. Slowly the entry level job market was killed by this practice. Local kids could not get into software without lying and claiming experience like desis from a particular state would do. So they started looking for alternative things to do and away from software. The Republicans began to feed stories that all IT jobs would be outsourced leading to more fear.

If you have a plant in your backyard, you have to water and nurture it. You cannot neglect it and then come back in some time and complain that there are no flowers or fruits. That is what happened. US IT was neglected and the roots died.

But it can be fixed by giving people an incentive to come back. People are smart enough if there is money in it and they don't have to complete with Kumar charging $25k for substandard work and "tell me where to click" type of admin-giri.

That is what Trump needs to do to revive the IT "middle class" and "lower class" in the US. He can do it. But is he serious? If he is, then the folks masquerading as "IT professionals" will go back to what they are most qualified for - opening doors at malls.

The main point is that many of these people don't deserve to be in those jobs. They were lucky to enjoy it because the stars were in alignment. Now things are different and no one owes them cushy jobs for no effort.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 11 Feb 2017 02:49

I have seen kids with Computer Science degrees delivering pizzas!!

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Feb 2017 03:51

Personally I don't think American IT industry can be revived/restored to pre Y2K days, in fact more and more jobs will keep disappearing into the Cloud infrastructure and the rest outsourced.
Emergence of Cloud computing is having same effect as stores like Walmart had on mom & pop stores.

Same thing is true for jobs in other sectors too, jobs which have disappeared are not coming back.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Feb 2017 04:07

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nTd2ZAX_tc

If this man Banner is as crazy as the left suggest, he is far more dangerous than 1000DTs. He thinks.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Feb 2017 04:26

I am seeing a steady decrease of 'high head count - many months projects' at client places.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Feb 2017 04:37

Yagnasri wrote:The court order is a strange one. How can they apply the US Constitution for non-citizens? Now there is no 9th judge in US SC. Now they are required to appoint a new Judge first, and there will be a hell of the fight to nominate him. Once that is done then there will be pro-GOP ideas judgements from the US SC. While I am not sure about US Law, it is very strange that US courts are expanding the law to apply to non-US citizens.

The 9th district appeals court didn't actually issue any ruling on whether non-citizens outside the USA are covered by non-discrimination laws etc. All the court did was to reject the government's plea to vacate the US equivalent of stay order issued by a lower court.

The actual question of the legality of Trump's executive order (ordinance) is still pending in the courts.

So, in this case, it is premature to draw comparison with any overreach on the part of Indian courts.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Feb 2017 04:47

The govt argued to lift the stay on the grounds that it has immediate national security reasons. Court asked for evidence to back such claim and got none. Court has cited all this in their refusal to lift stay.

Arguing this as extending rights to non citizens is a spin.

Real question is - if such immediate threat is there, as govt is arguing - then it should not waste time arguing but instead scrap this order and rewrite a better one. Of course that is not palatable for trump/bannon ego. So they will keep making political arguments about having immediate national security threat but not actually do something about this threat that they are alleging.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Feb 2017 05:07

Gus wrote:The govt argued to lift the stay on the grounds that it has immediate national security reasons. Court asked for evidence to back such claim and got none. Court has cited all this in their refusal to lift stay.

Arguing this as extending rights to non citizens is a spin.

Real question is - if such immediate threat is there, as govt is arguing - then it should not waste time arguing but instead scrap this order and rewrite a better one. Of course that is not palatable for trump/bannon ego. So they will keep making political arguments about having immediate national security threat but not actually do something about this threat that they are alleging.

Government argued that the court had no right to ask for any evidence in matters of national security. Court rejected this.

Trump people basically botched this. Latest is that they will try to rewrite the order and rescind this one. That means all the court cases will be moot.

komal · Post by **komal** » 11 Feb 2017 06:39

Gus wrote:The govt argued to lift the stay on the grounds that it has immediate national security reasons. Court asked for evidence to back such claim and got none. Court has cited all this in their refusal to lift stay.

Arguing this as extending rights to non citizens is a spin.

Real question is - if such immediate threat is there, as govt is arguing - then it should not waste time arguing but instead scrap this order and rewrite a better one. Of course that is not palatable for trump/bannon ego. So they will keep making political arguments about having immediate national security threat but not actually do something about this threat that they are alleging.

That KSA and Pakistan are not on the list renders moot any national security justification.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Feb 2017 07:13

KJo wrote:
krisna wrote: <snip>.
Here is what happened.
US had enough local skills. The market was in equilibrium and software people were making good money. Then Y2K happened and suddenly the tsunami of "techies" started. Once Y2K was over, people got the idea that they could outsource more. Why pay Steve 100k when they can get by with Kumar for $30k? I can get 3 Kumars and still show savings! Bonus! Promotions! The ramifications were seen but not immediately but the execs had already moved on to another job. No one cared. Slowly the entry level job market was killed by this practice. Local kids could not get into software without lying and claiming experience like desis from a particular state would do. So they started looking for alternative things to do and away from software. The Republicans began to feed stories that all IT jobs would be outsourced leading to more fear.

If you have a plant in your backyard, you have to water and nurture it. You cannot neglect it and then come back in some time and complain that there are no flowers or fruits. That is what happened. US IT was neglected and the roots died.

But it can be fixed by giving people an incentive to come back. People are smart enough if there is money in it and they don't have to complete with Kumar charging $25k for substandard work and "tell me where to click" type of admin-giri.

That is what Trump needs to do to revive the IT "middle class" and "lower class" in the US. He can do it. But is he serious? If he is, then the folks masquerading as "IT professionals" will go back to what they are most qualified for - opening doors at malls.

The main point is that many of these people don't deserve to be in those jobs. They were lucky to enjoy it because the stars were in alignment. Now things are different and no one owes them cushy jobs for no effort.

lot of innuendoes without any merit.

In fact virtually all the points have been covered in my previous posts except some bitter comments.

if usa had enough local skills, then immigration of highly skilled workers would not have occurred. No further arguments on this.

Because there is low skilled workers immigration continued. no further arguments I guess.

The reason why trump or Hillary or Obama cannot fix the skilled workers deficit is due to fundamental family issues which I have said in my previous posts. no band aids will help unless family unit is rectified.

when you have low or no skilled workers in america , commenting on other nations having skilled workers, but blaming them for substandard work etc etc is totally atrocious and uncalled for.

I have seen plenty of skilled workers (health sector being a hakim) who are not so good from various countries but even that is missing from local graduates. so can I blame the immigrants forgetting the dearth of local talent.

In fcat many hakims forget common sense and end up doing guidelines based management which looks awful without proper look into the patient case. 3rd most harm is by health care professionals actions .

recent studies show immigrants in health sector are far better than local ones in reducing morbidity mortality in hospital with less cost. etc more studies needed to confirm this or an aberration. many americans think their hakims are the best- not necessarily so.

no wonder victimhood mentality.

edited a couple of lines which I thought would lead to unnecessary friction.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 11 Feb 2017 07:21

komal wrote:
Singha wrote:intel ceo has gone to WH and announced a $7b arizona chip plant.
Humiliation of the USA continues. Corporate executives showing obsequiness. And President taking credit for 3,000 jobs.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167695/ ... ctory.html

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Feb 2017 07:51

New executive order on Immigration on Monday or Tuesday. It is crazee out there.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Feb 2017 09:19

As expected here comes the enforcement surge, incidentally LA, Chicago, and NY are supposed to be "sanctury" cities.

Hundreds of immigrants arrested in 'routine' U.S. enforcement surge

(Reuters) - U.S. federal immigration agents arrested hundreds of undocumented immigrants in at least four states this week in what officials on Friday called routine enforcement actions.

Reports of immigration sweeps this week sparked concern among immigration advocates and families, coming on the heels of President Donald Trump's executive order barring refugees and immigrants from seven majority-Muslim nations. That order is currently on hold.

"The fear coursing through immigrant homes and the native-born Americans who love immigrants as friends and family is palpable," Ali Noorani, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, said in a statement. "Reports of raids in immigrant communities are a grave concern."

The enforcement actions took place in Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and surrounding areas, said David Marin, director of enforcement and removal for the Los Angeles field office of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.