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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Bart S » 19 May 2017 02:52

Peregrine wrote:Pakistan will accept ICJ's decision on Kulbhushan Jadhav, says Punjab minister


Foreign Office spokesman Nafees Zakaria had said India has been "trying to hide its real face" by taking the case of Jadhav to ICJ.

"The real face of India will be exposed before the world," he told the state-run Pakistan Television.

Jadhav, 46, has confessed his crimes of sabotage, terrorism and subversion activities not only once but twice, he said.

Zakaria said Pakistan has already informed the ICJ that it does not accept its jurisdiction in matters related to the national security.

On the other hand, opposition parties in Pakistan blamed Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif for securing 'relief' to alleged Indian spy Jadhav.


By that logic it should be equally credible if the denied it twice, and if he denied it 3 times he should be acquitted. The idiots having lived in their own bubble for so long think that the rest of the world would believe such rubbish without any fricking evidence being shown.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby krithivas » 19 May 2017 03:02

^^ KJ was kidnapped and convicted (read hostage) in Pakland. What is preventing GoI from asserting this as a kidnap case vs. arguing KJ was not spying in Balochistan?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Bart S » 19 May 2017 03:05

krithivas wrote:^^ KJ was kidnapped and convicted (read hostage) in Pakland. What is preventing GoI from asserting this as a kidnap case vs. arguing KJ was not spying in Balochistan?


Not sure what you base that assumption on, but they did exactly that - explain in no uncertain terms that he was kidnapped from Iran - watch Harish Salve's statement.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Amber G. » 19 May 2017 03:16

Sorry if already posted, but many may find this very interesting. ...
Background information on how GOI engaged Salve etc..-- Hats off to Sushamaji..
For Kulbhushan Jadhav, India Has Plan A And B: Harish Salve To NDTV

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Bhurishravas » 19 May 2017 04:20

General Baaja - Army will fight train terrorists, society should fight supply extremism.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333926/army- ... -gen-bajwa

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby ManSingh » 19 May 2017 05:04

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/diplomats-upbeat-over-icj-order/409389.html

A badly written article. Could not make sense whether the convicts were executed after the stay on death penalty or after the verdict.

Mexico vs US
In 2003, Mexico took the US to the ICJ over a dispute concerning alleged violations of Vienna Convention with respect to 54 Mexican nationals who were sentenced to death in the US. They requested the court to ensure US should not execute or set execution dates for any Mexican national before the court passed judgment. The ICJ ruled its jurisdiction lay only in establishing whether the US breached its obligations, of the Convention. However, the US SC held that the order of the ICJ was not binding unless Congress has enacted statutes implementing it or unless treaty itself is “self- executing”.
Germany vs US
German national Walter LaGrand and his brother Karl were arrested in US state of Arizona in 1982 on suspicion of armed robbery and murder. In 1999, Germany instituted proceedings against the US for allegedly failing to inform the duo of their right to consular access, guaranteed by the Vienna Convention. The appeal was filed on the eve of the brothers’ execution. However, Karl was executed before the case started and Germany demanded that the US compensate his family and halt Walter’s execution till proceedings were pending. In its verdict the following day, the ICJ asked US to ensure Walter was not executed during proceedings. He was executed in a gas chamber in Arizona after ruling.
Paraguay vs US
The third case was again filed against the US when Paraguay dragged America to the ICJ in 1998 alleging that the state of Virginia had violated Vienna Convention by failing to inform Angel Francisco Breard, a Paraguayan, of his right to contact the Paraguayan consulate for assistance after his arrest. The Hague had called on the US to “take all measures at its disposal” to prevent the execution of Breard, pending a final decision in the proceedings instituted by Paraguay. However, Breard was executed on April 14, five days after the verdict. Paraguay later withdrew the case. PTI

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby ramana » 19 May 2017 06:02

Essentially Salve showed the ICJ that three times it had ruled against US where the state has not fulfilled its obligations under Vienna convention. Us off course flouted the rulings and executed the people.

So Salve got the ICJ to rule.

Its another matter if TSP follows the ruling.

NaMo has to warn TSP of dire consequences if it kills KBY.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 06:30

Karthik S wrote:Indian lawyer takes Rs 1, and that colonial residue takes half a million pounds.

This proves yet again that there is no concept of nation-state in the artificial construct Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 06:33

Falijee wrote:Kulbhushan Yadav case: Pakistan Foreign Office official response surfaces
Pakistan does not accept the International Court of Justice's jurisdiction in matters related to national security,

Then, they should have behaved like the way their Himalayan Master did in UNCLOS. Be absent totally from proceedings.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby arun » 19 May 2017 08:29

More from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the matter of their agreeing to India’s request for granting provisional measures in the case of Commander Kulbhushan Jadhav (Retd.) who had been kidnapped from Iran and given a farcical trial by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Note the below link is for the ICJ “Order” as opposed to the ICJ “Press Release” that was posted earlier here on BRF:

Jadhav Case (India v. Pakistan) - Order - Request for the indication of provisional measures

The ICJ Order discloses India’s prayers to the Court beyond the provisional measures sought and obtained yesterday:

(1) a relief by way of immediate suspension of the sentence of death awarded to the accused.

(2) a relief by way of restitution in integrum by declaring that the sentence of the military court arrived at, in brazen defiance of the Vienna Convention rights under Article 36, particularly Article 36, paragraph 1 (b), and in defiance of elementary human rights of an accused which are also to be given effect as mandated under Article 14 of the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, is violative of international law and the provisions of the Vienna Convention, and

(3) restraining Pakistan from giving effect to the sentence awarded by the military court, and directing it to take steps to annul the decision of the military court as may be available to it under the law in Pakistan.

(4) if Pakistan is unable to annul the decision, then this Court to declare the decision illegal being violative of international law and treaty rights and restrain Pakistan from acting in violation of the Vienna Convention and international law by giving effect to the sentence or the conviction in any manner, and directing it to release the convicted Indian National forthwith.


Regards the 2008 Bilateral Consular Access Agreement, the ICJ leaves open the possibility of finding the Agreement halal by indicating that they will be examining the issue if a bilateral agreemet like the 2008 one can limit the operation of Vienna Convention by mutual consent. On a positive(?) for India their first cut is that there appears to be no such limitation explicitly stated in the 2008 Agreement. I have used “positive(?)” as I am not sure of the wisdom of junking a bilateral in favour of a multilateral from the standpoint of the law of unintended consequences :

33. In respect of the 2008 Agreement, the Court does not need to decide at this stage of the proceedings whether Article 73 of the Vienna Convention would permit a bilateral agreement to limit the rights contained in Article 36 of the Vienna Convention. It is sufficient at this point to note that the provisions of the 2008 Agreement do not impose expressly such a limitation. Therefore, the Court considers that there is no sufficient basis to conclude at this stage that the 2008 Agreement prevents it from exercising its jurisdiction under Article I of the Optional Protocol over disputes relating to the interpretation or the application of Article 36 of the Vienna Convention.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 08:58

ramana wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Rising influence of Daesh in Balochistan,Sindh real challenge: CTD
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/205107 ... llenge-CTD


So what is this new fad of jet black terrorists in TFTA Pakistan?


The Pakistanis can be very funny without them realizing they are so. In that respect, they do inherit the gene of some Arab tribes further proving that they are descendants of West Asia and have nothing to do with Bharat! The 'jet black terrorists' is one such.

I see this as an attempt to target IMU & ETIM on the demands of China. It appears from the wording that this initiative is by the PA. The raising of a 1500 strong force 'trained by the Army' is a pointer. Obviously, the 10,000 strong Army unit for CPEC is inadequate and probably each province will have its own Army unit as well to protect CPEC investments.

The incidents quoted in the report attributed to the 'jet-black terrorists' as well as the timing are strange. PNS Mehran attack, cited by the Sind's CTD, was in c. 2011, Karachi Airport attack in c. 2014 & Saffora Goth bus attack in c. 2015. Strangely, there is no mention of the latest Sehwan attack (Feb. 2017) which was the one owned up by the IS !

Obviously, there was no Da'esh in c. 2011 when PNS Mehran was attacked. It was carried out by the one-eyed former commando of SSG, Ilyas Kashmiri's Brigade 313, a part of HuJI which was a prominent member of the 'bad Taliban' - a delinquent 'Self-attacking' immune system. Within a few days of PNS Mehran, the noted journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad, who had close contacts with Ilyas Kashmiri, was assassinated by the ISI and soon thereafter, Ilyas Kashmiri was killed by a CIA drone.

Karachi Airport Attack was by Jama'at-ut-Ahrar, a faction of TTP. It had dubious allegiance to both IS & Al Qaeda. It was at this stage that the PA created AQIS (Al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent) to prevent cadres from pro-sarkari jihadi tanzeems from joining the IS.

However, it was the Saffora Goth bus attack that is of interest here for the following reason, but it was masked in the report cited above by mentioning PNS Mehran & Karachi as well in the sme breath.

Saffora Goth was conducted by the Jandullah ('Army of Allah') group, which is based in Karachi and the credit was claimed by Da'esh through its Amaq agency. Jandullah was created by KSM and later led by Tahir Yuldashev of Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU). Upon his death, Hakeemullah Mehsud became the Emir. Its goals until Hakeeemullah's death in c. 2013 were to target US & Western interests within Pakistan. Initially, it was formed by Uzbeks and Chechens in South Waziristan. Jandullah also attracts Jama'at-e-Islami (JI) cadres. Jandullah now owes allegiance to IS. Its Emir was recently reported killed by the Rangers. This is where China comes into picture, IMO. IMU is a member of Jandullah. It is the IMU that is the strongest backer of ETIM within the Taliban group. They have given them refuge and training. The IMU cadres are also most vicious. Within Pakistan, it is the takfiri/salafist Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) that provides logistics, men, material and funding to Da'esh. The tactically brilliant PA/ISI pushed LeJ into Balochistan as a ‘first line force’ to fight Baloch separatism after the 'missing persons' case assumed prominence in c.2011. As a result, the notorious Emir of LeJ, Malik Ishaqu, was freed from jail around that time and possibly a modus operandi was struck between PA/ISI/Punjab Police and LeJ for the influx and operation of LeJ cadres in Balochistan. The LeJ therefore got entrenched in Balochistan and adjoining Sind areas and facilitated the Da'esh as well.

Until recently, Pakistan was denying the presence of Da'esh in Pakistan, especially in Karachi, though the Saffora Goth incident was claimed by IS (the first such claim within Pakistan) and IS pamphlets were strewn at the site. The sudden acknowledgement and raising of a big force quickly comes from Chinese pressure as CPEC takes more shape, IMO.

IMO, events henceforth in the Chinese province of Pakistan have to be also seen in that light.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby shiv » 19 May 2017 09:04

SSridhar wrote:
IMO, events henceforth in the Chinese province of Pakistan have to be also seen in that light.

Do you think this thread now warrants renaming as "Chinese colony of Pakistan - news and disc"? :D

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 09:20

It may eventually merge with the China thread, but, for now, STFUP is quite delightful.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby arun » 19 May 2017 09:33

Imran “I’m the Dim'' Khan on the ICJ verdict on provisional measures sought by India in the Commander Kulbhushan Jadhav (Retd.) case:

Verdict saddens nation: Imran

Verdict saddens nation: Imran

May 19, 2017 QUETTA - Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan Thursday said that nation saddened over the verdict of International Court of Justice on Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav.

Talking to media men after reaching Quetta, the PTI chairman grilled the government over poor performance in the ICJ.

Imran Khan said that Narendra Modi wanted to destabilise Pakistan. Kulbhushan convicted of spying and running a terrorist network in Pakistan, he added.

He said that India was making efforts at every platform to undermine Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby arun » 19 May 2017 09:34

Seems to be bye bye for the bewigged Khawar Qureshi and a movement from a “Courageous” stand to a “Vigorous” stand for the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the ICJ.

Sartaj Aziz, Adviser to Prime Minister of the Mohammadden Terrorist Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan for Foreign Affairs informs that despite the Islamic Republic’s counsel having “courageously presented Pakistan’s stance in International Court of Justice (ICJ)” the Islamic Republic “would form a new team of lawyers on Kulbhushan Jadhev case in ICJ to present Pakistan’s stance vigorously”:

Govt to form new team of lawyers on Jadhav case

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby yensoy » 19 May 2017 10:01

SSridhar wrote:

Then, they should have behaved like the way their Himalayan Master did in UNCLOS. Be absent totally from proceedings.


Then the entire legal team couldn't have made their all costs paid trip to Europe to escape Lahore in heat no?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby JE Menon » 19 May 2017 11:18

And out of those 500K British pounds earned by Khawar Qureshi, be sure that several 10 percents have been distributed among generals. Khawar just got an all expenses paid trip to Lundun and, if lucky, 50% of that. I suspect no more than 10% for him too... Still not bad pickings for a few days "work"...

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Peregrine » 19 May 2017 14:44

Day after ICJ ruling, some Pakistanis ask why Kulbhushan Jadhav was not given consular access

NEW DELHI: Some Pakistanis have now begun to ask questions about why Indian national Kulbhushan Jadhav was denied consular access.

This soul-searching comes a day after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Pakistan should stay Jadhav's execution pending its decision in the case filed by India.

Since Jadhav's arrest last year in March, India asked Pakistan as many as 16 times for consular access to the Indian national. It wasn't granted that access even once.

"Who gave the opinion to deny consular access to Jadhav in the first place," asked Pakistani rights activist Asma Jahangir, reported Dawn today.

"Will it not endanger the rights of the prisoners languishing in Indian jails? Can one change international law?" Jahangir further asked.

An eminent "Foaming at the Mouth and India Hater" Pakistani lawyer echoed Jahangir's question.

"Pakistan should have provided Kulbhushan with the consular access from the start," said lawyer Yasser Latif Hamdani India Hater in General and Hindu, Sikh, Jain & Buddhist Hater in Particular along with Jinnah's ardent Hagiographer to DunyaNews.

"The ICJ was not going to say don't give consular access", Hamdani said.

The lawyer further justified the ICJ's decision to deliver a quick ruling a mere 10 days after India filed its case at the Hague court.

Hamdani told DunyaNews that the ICJ took up India's matter on an urgent basis because Pakistan hadn't assured it that it wouldn't "hang Jadhav before the hearing is over. Hence this stay order."

Yesterday, the ICJ agreed that India's contention on consular access was indeed an issue because Pakistan denying it was a violation of the Vienna Convention. India and Pakistan do have a "dispute" on the matter, ICJ president Ronny Abraham observed.

As for what Hamdani was talking about inrelation to Jadhav's hanging, the ICJ ruled yesterday that there is the possibility of "irrevocable prejudice to the rights of Jadhav." That is, the ICJ agreed that it is possible Jadhav may be hanged before its verdict.

In its plea to the court, India, represented by lawyer Harish Salve, had expressed the fear that Jadhav might be executed even while the hearing at the ICJ was on.

Jadhav, a former Navy officer, was arrested in March 2016 from Balochistan, Pakistan claimed. He was awarded the death sentence by a Pakistani military court on April 10 this year for alleged espionage and subversive activities.

India stated that Jadhav was kidnapped from Iran where he was involved in business activities after retiring from the Indian Navy.

Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Kashi » 19 May 2017 17:42

India has given in to extremism: COAS {Bajwa uvach}

RAWALPINDI: Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa said on Thursday that India seemed to have given in to extremism to such an extent that it had become the new normal.

"Hate has been mainstreamed in India and it is distorting their national outlook," Gen Bajwa said during his address at the Role of Youth in Rejecting Extremism seminar held at the General Headquarters.
{Looks like the recent pounding at LoC has really hurt :D }

"The Hindutva extremism of the RSS and their GaoRakshaks :roll: , deprivation of Palestinians, the burning and desecration of mosques or gurdwaras in western capitals, the rise of hyper nationalists and the monster of racism, are all manifestations of extremism. We can easily say, it is emerging as a transnational phenomenon hence warranting a transnational, unified response," the Army chief said.

Bajwa ka baja Baja

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 18:08

The Pakis have been relentlessly trying to paint us as 'terrorists', an equal status with them. They don't miss any opportunity to do so.

And, some people in India call Gen. Bajwa as more rational ! We hear such description in our country every time a new Pakistani General assumes power; it is more a wishful statement than a fact. I don't know what drives these people to say so.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 18:09

Bhurishravas wrote:General Baaja - Army will fight train terrorists, society should fight supply extremism.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333926/army- ... -gen-bajwa


Careful. Bajwa is a Hindu/Sikh last name as well.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 18:28

'Pakistan didn't fail'
No sir, because India did not win.
Reminds me of that nameless general who termed his battlefield retreat as "advance to the rear".

India didn't win, Pakistan didn't fail. India didn’t win the case. Pakistan didn’t fail. The decision only relates to India’s request for provisional measures (which, by the way, doesn’t even include a request for granting consular access to Jadhav).
At this stage, it was easier and more likely for the ICJ to favour the Indian request as the threshold for assuming jurisdiction was not very high.
Pakistan hasn’t failed to convince the ICJ that Jadhav is a spy/terrorist


I like the "double negative" discourse to calm down the awaam. (Extension of the same logic by genrail sher-dil niazi: West Pakistan did not lose its eastern wing. West Pakistan finally succeeded in consolidating into one defensible unit which was always the goal)

https://www.dawn.com/news/1334111/pakis ... -on-jadhav

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 18:36

India can move UN Security Council if Pakistan defies ICJ order on Yadav: experts
Who are these "experts"?

India can approach United Nations Security Council if Islamabad defies the International Court of Justice (ICJ) stay order on RAW agent Kulbhushan Yadav and consular access to him, experts of International law said.
The legal experts said the problem is world court’s order cannot be enforced the way domestic court verdicts can, adding that Pakistan may claim it had not agreed to the case at the judicial branch of the UN.


So, for the pakis, it could lead them to reconsider taking all their "complaints" to the ICJ in the future because of their current convoluted interpretation of ICJ's jurisdiction. Secondly, would they want India to take the case to the Security Council? After all they have their iron brother to bail them out. But would the chinis comply? Interesting times ahead for the pakis. Plenty of fodder for their non-existent soul searching. It may be simpler to let Jhadev go.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/20536 ... av-experts

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Falijee » 19 May 2017 19:02

"He delivers the goods, and is particularly good at difficult cases. He is part of the team and very flexible. As such he's completely what the modern barrister should be like."
Chambers & Partners 2014

Khawar Qureshi is a QC at Serle Court Chambers and McNair Chambers Qatar.

The above is a "promo" pumping up the so-called credentials of ( My laard ) Khawar Qurieshi, based on all places, Qatar , the fountainhead of Islamic extremism, IMO. One foot in Qatar, where the money is ( where he obviously is in touch with his co-brothers in Pakjab ) in foot in Pakiland , where the heart still is and a third leg ( if he has one!) in Londonistan , (just in case , if he has to return to home base ) :mrgreen: .

PS: Is he now going to be persona-non-grata in Pakistan, because he did not deliver the goods , as his promo boasts :mrgreen:

PPS: Will his law firm, see the money , (charged by them -half a million pounds) from the Paki Govt , in view of Pakistan's almost insolvent status!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby manjgu » 19 May 2017 19:08

though khawar qureshi was trying to put a oxbridge accent..sometimes his pakjabi DNA showed up..substaaantive was one word he pronouncing like a good punjabi !!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 19:08

Apparently there is a rumor floating around in pakiland that Khawar Qurieshi has India links. Probably worked for the Indian government on a project. Interesting times ahead. No web link or source yet.

By the way, as we all know, half of paki awaam has India links.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Atmavik » 19 May 2017 19:09

anupmisra wrote:'Pakistan didn't fail'

Reminds me of that nameless general who termed his battlefield retreat as "advance to the rear".



This is Epic. i wonder how i missed it all these years.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Atmavik » 19 May 2017 19:11

anupmisra wrote:Apparently there is a rumor floating around in pakiland that Khawar Qurieshi has India links. Probably worked for the Indian government on a project. Interesting times ahead. No web link or source yet.

By the way, as we all know, half of paki awaam has India links.


A rumor also has it that the Jindal-Sharif meeting was to select this sore loser Qurieshi as the legal counsel and the fees to be paid by Jindal wich includes the usual 10% service charge.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 19:12

Falijee wrote:PS: Is he now going to be persona-non-grata in Pakistan, because he did not deliver the goods , as his promo boasts


Certainly "persona ex-gratia", for sure. I hope the paki awaam doesn't blame his remaining pakjabi family in pakiland for blasphemy. That would be too easy.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby JE Menon » 19 May 2017 19:20

The Paks know exactly what is happening. This is not about the International Court or international law. This is about Jadhav. We are doing what we usually do, which is to show the world that we are doing whatever possible to bring the matter to world attention, so that whatever countries decide to take action to persuade Pakistan to let Jadhav go, they do so now that they have some time. I'm sensing that the signal is loud and clear, and it is a form of pressure on the 3.5. This may explain why the sudden urge on the part of the US to advise direct talks to sort matters out between India and Pakistan. In other words, they don't want to be dragged into it (and I can understand that, considering the shitstorm that is playing out non-stop within the US).

Question is, what are Pakistan's options:

(1) Murder Jadhav, if they haven't already, an innocent man simply picked up from the Iran because they could. The "Taliban" having stumbled upon him of course is pure nonsense. The Paks probably found a "target", told their Talibunnies to pick him up (plausible deniability) and "sell" him to them - there, too, probably money settled nicely into the pocket of the chosen Taliban leader and his ISI handler.

(2) If they haven't killed him yet, they may decide to not give consular access and not kill him. This would mean permanent "limbo" in prison, with the usual expected treatment given the Paks fine-tuned sense of dishonour. This means we cannot do much except more or less a tit-for-tat, but this will be silent mainly so the target will have to be higher value than they can keep quiet about. It can be managed.

(3) The second option would be silly, but you cannot rule anything out with the Paks. But they may go for the sensible third option, if Qamar has a nose for opportunity. That would be to do a bit of a bollywood item number saying the Paks are not such animals that they would kill someone with a summary trial, etc.. but in the interest of peace and stability in the region considering the irresponsible and unpredictable leadership in New Delhi, they are letting Jadhav go, but Islamabad would like to resume talks on all outstanding issues.

The last option would be a way out. GoI will take it, bring Jadhav home and can happily go back to bilateral talks. Then it is up to Qamar to decide whether he wants to take Pakistan out of the abyss it is sliding into, or to keep sliding because it is comfortable. My bet is option 1, 2 and 3 in that order.

India's reaction to the killing of Jadhav as per option 1 will be painful for the state of Pakistan, and it will be very public.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 May 2017 19:26

So the Indian lawyer pulls the wool down over the wigged Pakistani lawyer's eyes. He he he.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby venug » 19 May 2017 19:33

JEM ji:
4th option: exchange Kulbushan with their spy silently and announce he has been released and then continue with talks and play some serious cricket.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Peregrine » 19 May 2017 19:35

Clapistan's begging Highel than the Himalayas Ilon Blothel Fliend for the next CPEC-OBOR High Jinks :

Railways needs $35 billion for complete uplift, says minister
Cheers Image

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Gagan » 19 May 2017 19:36

Actually, this thing called Pakistani Awaam.
I question its existence.

I think this is an excuse trotted out by the fauj, civilian politicians etc.
The pakistani awam are like sheep, drugged with masli, and dancing to the beat of the mullah brigade, fauji brigade and occasionally the civilian neta brigade. The pakistani awaam would have actually mattered if there are even a figment of democracy in the entitiy called Pakistan.
Since there isn't any, this resorting to this imaginary fear of the 'Great Pakistani Awam' is all BS.

The lefties in india use a angilized version of this to try and fool the public and netas in India. They call it the 'Civic Society' of Pakistan. That entity is nonexistant.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby Vikas » 19 May 2017 19:44

JEM ji, There is another option for Pakis. Not sure why they wont use it.
Pakis go thru the drama of going via Paki SC in appeal against sentence and then still hang him after finding him guilty.
Would that not satisfy everyone except Bharat.

Come what may, KJ is not coming back home alive and India will have to respond back in a way Pakis would remember for a long time.
Knowing the way NM works, The bear hug will come soon and I guess Paki Jarnails are counting on this to get Cheen involved in this fight and fight for them.

If KJ is killed, I am pretty sure IWT will be declared as toilet paper in few days and diplomatic relations will be brought down.
Last edited by Vikas on 19 May 2017 19:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 19:45

Although not a lawyer, but in my line of work, I have seen "evidence" presented based on heresay, wishfulness, conjecture, anecdote, circumstances, verifiable facts or, the current favorite, alt-facts. In pakiland, justice (just like their PhD theses) is delivered based on heresay, conjecture, anecdotes, circumstances and alt-facts.

The paki awaam wished for a scapegoat for all their current troubles and TTP duly complied with a bakra. Whether KY is a spy or not, that is immaterial. Based on circumstances, anecdotes and heresay, the military built up a case and presented KY as the culprit-in-chief for all terrorism in pakiland. Poor timing proved to be the final nail in KY's coffin and he was swiftly convicted by all-in-one court: the accuser/judge/jury/executioner. No defense was presented.

If a proper legal process was to be followed, that would be the undoing of everything the paki awaam believes in, everything the TSPSA has been proferring to the gullible awaam for 70 years, and everything the self-serving politicians have been pinning their failures on for the past 75 years.

For the pakis to come out of this smelling like (gasp!) roses, the TSPA will likely announce an amnesty for KY and the how how large-hearted they truly are. They would prefer to do this than go through a truly globally-watched legal process of laying bare their short comings. After all, TSPA has no short comings.

T-20 anyone?
Last edited by anupmisra on 19 May 2017 19:48, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 May 2017 19:45

Pakistan government under fire for its handling of Jadhav's case - PTI
The Pakistan government today faced flak over its handling of Indian national Kulbhushan Jadhav's case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), with several legal experts questioning the strategy adopted and asking why it accepted the global court's jurisdiction.

The Hague-based court, the UN's highest judicial body, had yesterday stayed the execution of Jadhav, 46, considered to be a spy by Pakistan.

The ruling triggered criticism of the the Pakistan Foreign Office (FO) for its "poor handling" and also for its choice of Khawar Qureshi, who represented Pakistan's case before the ICJ. The Attorney General for Pakistan (AGP) had recommended some other counsel, The Express Tribune reported.

According to former Pakistan Bar Council Vice Chairman Farogh Naseem, Pakistan should have immediately withdrawn its March 29, 2017 declaration accepting the compulsory jurisdiction of the ICJ. Instead of contesting the matter, Pakistan should have withdrawn the declaration immediately after India took Jadhav's case to the ICJ, he said. "Why did Pakistan not take the glaring and brutal human rights violations in Kashmir before the court, despite the fact that Islamabad had a strong case in this regard?" Former Additional Attorney General Tariq Khokhar, an expert in international law, regretted that Pakistan had accepted ICJ jurisdiction through a declaration, which should have been withdrawn once Pakistan knew that India would invoke the ICJ's jurisdiction against it. "Being an arbitration forum, each contesting state was allowed to nominate one person of its choice to act as an ad hoc judge at the ICJ...India did nominate one but Pakistan did not," Khokhar said, adding that Pakistan's counsel did not argue for the full allotted time either.

Eminent lawyer and human rights activist Asma Jahangir suggested that rather than making the ICJ ruling a matter of ego, "we should sit down, join our heads and find a way out by going through the ruling thoroughly". "Who gave the opinion to deny consular access to Jadhav in the first place?" she asked. International law expert Ahmer Bilal Soofi was of the view that Pakistan should prepare for the second phase of the case, which was "more important because it would be contested on merit and would provide Pakistan the chance to document India’s intervention inside Pakistan through Jadhav". Islamabad could insist on cooperation from India on the investigation into Jadhav’s activities, he said. Former law minister S M Zafar said prime facie, it was a wrong decision. "I could not understand why the ICJ issued a stay order in the Jadhav case without even understanding the case." According to him, Pakistan should change its legal strategy and concentrate more on the terrorism angle.

A senior official told The Express Tribune that India had been successful in managing the ICJ's registrar office, which has vast powers to fix cases before the court. "We were very surprised how swiftly Jadhav’s case was fixed before the ICJ," he said.

A senior official in the law ministry told the Express Tribune that Pakistan's lead lawyer Qureshi made two mistakes. "He did not nominate ad hoc judge before the hearing and he did not respond to the argument of Indian lawyer regarding the 2008 bilateral agreement between India and Pakistan on consular access," he said. The agreement says both the states will not give consular access to terrorists. However, Haresh Salve, counsel for India, contended that the agreement was not registered with the United Nations. The official said the foreign office had also failed to register the bilateral agreement with the UN.

Legal experts recommended that as the government now has a couple of months to evolve future strategy, it should not take a decision on appointment of an ad hoc judge in haste. They also wondered why Pakistan wanted to appoint foreigner as an ad hoc judge when every state prefers to nominate its own lawyers. Pakistan Bar Council executive member Raheel Kamran Sheikh said it was matter of concern that success rate of Pakistan in international arbitration cases was 2 per cent while India's success rate was 60 per cent. "We lost important cases at the international forum in the last couple of years. Likewise, we spent more than one billion rupees on lawyers’ fees in those cases," he said. {The fact is that 'false cases' don't win. Simple} Sheikh said mishandling of Jadhav’s case was a classic example of how in the power struggle between military and political institutions, gaps in the foreign policy and national security perspectives had grown. "And they [gaps] have grown to such an extent that if the situation is not arrested and improved immediately in the national interest by both the centres of power, irreparable damage shall be caused to the state," he said.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby anupmisra » 19 May 2017 19:47

Gagan wrote:They call it the 'Civic Society' of Pakistan. That entity is nonexistant.


That term is an oxy-moron in pakiland. (underscore "moron").

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby milano » 19 May 2017 19:51

A nice little analysis by Hussain Haqqani. He posits that the whole Jadhav episode, culminating with the latest happenings at ICJ does nothing for Pak, except propping up the Fauj domestically.

The headline assigned to Haqqani's article is "Islamabad's self-goal"

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/kulbhushan-jadhavhearing-icj-death-sentence-stay-pakistan-india-relations-4662790/

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - March 17, 2017

Postby JE Menon » 19 May 2017 19:53

venug wrote:JEM ji:
4th option: exchange Kulbushan with their spy silently and announce he has been released and then continue with talks and play some serious cricket.


Boss that is option 2. I just worded it delicately because, unlike Pakistan, India is not in the kidnapping business. Also let's not randomly ascribe the disappearance of the Pak diplomat in Nepal to Indian machinations. It is entirely possible that the guy left both Pakistan and Islam and settled with someone he'd met online in some Western country.


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