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Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby nam » 27 Apr 2017 17:57

Probably the reason why China was quite until their economy grew to start needling us on AP.

The 71 wiping of Pakis showed the Chinese we can defend AP.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby JayS » 27 Apr 2017 19:22

shiv wrote:Another gem from the anonymous lurker: These are supremely valuable insights - I'm learning a lot
Why does China emphatically state the 9-dash line and says other's have no right to the resources there? This can be explained by the phrase "Treasuring a jade pendant". A poor peasant found a Jade pendant and kept it to himself. Eventually people found out about it, and he was killed and the pendant taken. But the thief was also killed by another, and so on, till the Jade pendant fell into the hand of somebody strong enough to wear it openly for none dare rob him. So If you have something very valuable, or earned something very valuable, it doesn't automatically become yours. You must have enough strength to defend it, otherwise you might as well give it up to a strong one and save yourself suffering. So just because ICS has oil under the EEZ of Vietnam and Philippines it doesn't belong to them unless they have the strength to repel the Chinese. Otherwise they are like a peasant treasuring a Jade pendant. Easy pickings. The Chinese will accept Arunachal belongs to India when they see demonstrable proof that we can kick their asses back to the Yellow river and more. Otherwise we are a Weak people trying to hold onto something not ours by overreaching our strength. Why is it not ours? Because China is supposedly strong enough to flaunt that Jade pendant.


Couldn't agree more to the part where he says China will respect India only when it sees us powerful enough. Once I read a bit on Chinese attitude and how they deliberately keep things always confusing in diplomatic talks. I read an article how Chacha Nehru fell for these tricks due to his naivety. Can't remember exact things but it was on the road they built in Aksaichin. Lesson was never take Chinese at face value and never ever take implied meaning from what they say either. Will try to find the article and post if possible.

But one important thing I learnt from that reading sessions (only related to geo-political posturing and not so much as personal behaviour of typical Chinese, can't comment on that since I do not have experience there), that Chinese only value Power. They are like those aggressive Rams which will keep pushing on and on and on until they hit strong resistance that they cannot breach. If you show them soft side they would just laugh at you and will make a punch bag out of you. So if you want to face them dig in the heels and hit them hard head to head when they come charging towards you.

Dalai Lama visits AP Chinese renames AP cities. China building CPEC in our land in PoK and thinking of taking entire GB on lease from paki pigs. What did we do..?? Nothing. With that kind of meekness, let alone Chinese even Bangladeshis don't respect us.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby ldev » 27 Apr 2017 19:35

Suraj wrote:No hnair, I think you're wrong. They're not being 'meek'. They're just fulfilling their idea of Mandate of Heaven. People do not rebel against the leader until he demonstrates that he has failed to discharge his duties as leader. They give their leader a pretty long rope that way (Mao had barely been in power 2 decades during CR, and they had more than 2 dozen emperors who reigned more than 30 years), before revolting to such an extent that they lose 2-10% of their population.

It's happened to almost every dynasty of theirs. Great highs of world beating accomplishments, and it falls apart. In the next few years anywhere from the population of Bangalore to that of Mumbai+Delhi+Bangalore+Chennai gets killed, just like that . If it happened to us once, the scars would still be there. But they've done it 6-7 times in the last 2000 years. What happens to people after so much of that ? Surely it unhinges their mental state somewhat ?


The Chinese are gamblers by nature and instinct. If you see some of the larger casinos in the US and Canada Chinese patrons are present in huge numbers totally disproportionate to their share of the local population. So when a Chinese leader decides to take a monumental gamble with the fate of the nation, the population by and large supports that gamble until such time that the pain and suffering from a failed gamble reaches a tipping point and then the leader is replaced. So it's not a question of being meek or not meek. As gamblers and risk takers they will be with their leadership in the pursuit of those high risk ventures. The Great Leap forward did not work out, the Cultural Revolution was a disaster with millions of Chinese dead as a result. In more recent times China has pursued high risk geopolitical moves with nuclear supplies to North Korea and Pakistan. On the economic front it has created more credit domestically since 2008 than the US and EU combined with all of the attendant risks.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby chola » 27 Apr 2017 19:36

JayS wrote:
shiv wrote:Another gem from the anonymous lurker: These are supremely valuable insights - I'm learning a lot


Couldn't agree more to the part where he says China will respect India only when it sees us powerful enough. Once I read a bit on Chinese attitude and how they deliberately keep things always confusing in diplomatic talks. I read an article how Chacha Nehru fell for these tricks due to his naivety. Can't remember exact things but it was on the road they built in Aksaichin. Lesson was never take Chinese at face value and never ever take implied meaning from what they say either. Will try to find the article and post if possible.

But one important thing I learnt from that reading sessions (only related to geo-political posturing and not so much as personal behaviour of typical Chinese, can't comment on that since I do not have experience there), that Chinese only value Power. They are like those aggressive Rams which will keep pushing on and on and on until they hit strong resistance that they cannot breach. If you show them soft side they would just laugh at you and will make a punch bag out of you. So if you want to face them dig in the heels and hit them hard head to head when they come charging towards you.

Dalai Lama visits AP Chinese renames AP cities. China building CPEC in our land in PoK and thinking of taking entire GB on lease from paki pigs. What did we do..?? Nothing. With that kind of meekness, let alone Chinese even Bangladeshis don't respect us.



So the best policy for Cheen is open warfare!

I advocate an attack all along the chini border since they have arrogantly left them undermanned and underequipped.

We'll show them "meek" -- by punching them in the back of their f:cking heads!

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby chola » 27 Apr 2017 19:47

Though I can relate a parable concerning the above:

I told my chini-amreeki SHQ (then GHQ) that I wanted to try a "donkey punch." This being a college sex prank going around the gora frat boys circles that involved punching the back of your hex partner's head during climax while doing doggy style so the shock causes her to involuntarily contract and clamp down on your mijjile.

So with that in mind, she replied:

"You better knock me the f:ck out because I'm tearing your f:cking sack off if I'm not."

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby sanjaykumar » 27 Apr 2017 21:36

I admit my Asian GHQ's small feet make for premature missile detonations but that description of foot binding is some of the most revolting text I have read.

What to make of such a barbarous people?

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Suraj » 27 Apr 2017 21:37

nam wrote:From the content here, it looks like being bully is the thing in Chinese society? So if the Commies were not in power, any alternate power would still be a bully.

Communism seems to have given a name to a behaviour which was already prevalent. This explains the fallout with the Soviet Union as well.

So the Chinese are not "being suppressed under the commie boots"... it is the government they want. An emperor, a bully.

Correct. Mainland people are not stifled and dying for democracy while under the yoke of CPC. Rather, CPC is simply the current emperor to whom they ascribe the Mandate of Heaven.

The emperor MUST show that he's strong, in charge, has big brass testimonials the size of jackfruits , etc. Any cute 'pehle aap' politeness is pansy wimp behavior that will see the emperor dangling from a tree, like the Chongzhen Emperor - the last Ming ruler - did (he ran from the Imperial Palace and hung himself in the garden as the Manchus overran Beijing. That tree used to be around until they cut it down during CR).

China will never seek a mutually respectful solution to anything or anybody. It will either dominate, or show respectful deference. Anyone notionally equal or potentially capable of equality is someone to be hampered and sabotaged by any and all means necessary. If they're not doing anything actively, it's not that they've agreed to status quo, but that they're biding their time for better circumstances for themselves.

To seek status quo with China is stupid. Their mindset never favors status quo. They always seek even marginal gains that will accumulate in their favor long term.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby JayS » 27 Apr 2017 21:39

chola wrote:

So the best policy for Cheen is open warfare!

I advocate an attack all along the chini border since they have arrogantly left them undermanned and underequipped.

We'll show them "meek" -- by punching them in the back of their f:cking heads!


LOL. But there are many types of warfares. Economic, diplomatic, sub-conventional, unconventional, covert etc apart from going on all out war. I hoped it was clear enough from my "figure of speech" that showing them assertiveness and giving back in the same coin is what is important. But apparently not. Anyway.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby bharotshontan » 27 Apr 2017 21:45

Chinese seem to have been quick to adopt white supremacism into the older/traditional/subtler paler=better colorism in the modern era. It seemed to evolve in front of my eyes in the keyboard wars in online forums in the early to mid 2000s, where all of a sudden the Chinese realized they are at par with whites while Indians and sub-Saharan Africans are basically the same. I have no idea if this is actually taking root among Chinese, I've never experienced open racial hostility from Chinese or Chinese-Americans in real life. But this might be something that is taking deeper root in their culture as we speak, resulting in extra innate pressure not to be seen as weak vs Indians while concessions can be tolerated vs Japan or US or Russia. The era of Indian dharmagurus of Chinese is long gone and so has the respect that came with it, color differential notwithstanding.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Suraj » 27 Apr 2017 21:50

shiv wrote:
Suraj wrote:The pictures themselves are a very vivid image of how a shame based society functions.

Absolutely. What fascinates me is that the people being shamed have been beaten into "playing a role" as it were. They must stand bowing their heads down before the people while being accused/lampooned/whatever. If you look at ISIS?Taliban executions - that "bowing head" thing is not demaded. they are simply shot.

In China there was no guarantee that they could not be killed but humiliation while alive is a strong meme.

In many instances, the public humiliation was a precursor to being taken to the field away from the platform and summarily shot. There are some quite brutal stories, like sons accusing their mothers of spying and having them lynched:
China's Cultural Revolution: son's guilt over the mother he sent to her death
They beat her, bound her and led her from home. She knelt before the crowds as they denounced her. Then they loaded her on to a truck, drove her to the outskirts of town and shot her.

Fang Zhongmou's execution for political crimes during the Cultural Revolution was commonplace in its brutality but more shocking to outsiders in one regard: her accusers were her husband and their 16-year-old child.

...
One evening, her zealous son accused her of tacitly criticising Mao. The family row spiralled rapidly: Fang called for the return of purged leaders and attacked Mao for his personality cult. "I warned her: 'If you go against our dear Chairman Mao I will smash your dog head,'" Zhang said, at times reading from his father's testimony. "I felt this wasn't my mother. This wasn't a person. She suddenly became a monster … She had become a class enemy and opened her bloody mouth."

Fang's brother begged her to take her words back, warning she would be killed. "I'm not scared," Fang replied. She tore down and burned Mao's picture.

When her husband and son ran to denounce her, "I understood it meant death," Zhang said. In fact, he added, he called for her to be shot as a counter-revolutionary. He last saw her as she knelt on stage in the hours before her death.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Karthik S » 27 Apr 2017 21:57

^^^ WTH? This sounds similar to a news that a woman was shot by her son in Syria.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby ShauryaT » 28 Apr 2017 00:54

Suraj wrote:In many instances, the public humiliation was a precursor to being taken to the field away from the platform and summarily shot. There are some quite brutal stories, like sons accusing their mothers of spying and having them lynched:
China's Cultural Revolution: son's guilt over the mother he sent to her death
On Mao's rule and what it meant for the Chinese people, I have read this account and the heart goes out to the Chinese people.
https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Swans-Three ... 0743246985

According to the book, Mao responsible for untimely death of 70 million during his rule, some say 20 million. Some say, this is the cost of societal reform on a mass scale. As an Indian, it is mind boggling that this type of blood churning is the norm in many societies.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby ramana » 28 Apr 2017 01:13

nam wrote:Probably the reason why China was quite until their economy grew to start needling us on AP.

The 71 wiping of Pakis showed the Chinese we can defend AP.



No Sum DrongChu and Operation Falcon

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby ramana » 28 Apr 2017 01:21

While all the above reflects on Mainland Chinese political society, individually I have heard the most heart warming ones too.

One of my friend's wife parents are from mainland China. The father evacuated as a refugee to US from Shanghai, after Communist takeover leaving behind his wife. He waited for over 20 years till the thaw in the 1970s and went back and brought his wife to San Francisco and started his family. They were brought up as Buddhists.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 Apr 2017 02:52

If you are in Vancouver, the older Chinese often speak no English benefit of the doubt and all that.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 Apr 2017 03:11

Point is valid enough; what is the said China man's interaction with random White asking the train time?

I don't find this standoffishness, at least in the females, they are in fact curious and not necessarily in an innocent way?

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby hanumadu » 28 Apr 2017 03:19

The chinese look down on the other SE Asians. The rest of the SE Asians have no problem mixing among them selves and being friends with each other like the vietnamese, phillippinos, thais etc. But the chinese seem to make it a point to let others know they are chinese and openly indicate they are not se asians and hence better than them.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Suraj » 28 Apr 2017 03:26

hnair wrote:suraj,no right or wrong judgements, please! We all are posting this based on our personal observations. I am saying they are being meek, if they agree to any crap that is thrown at them by their leadership, even if couched in divinity.

Hi hnair, I missed this post earlier, but I want to acknowledge that I agree with you :)

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Suraj » 28 Apr 2017 06:44

hanumadu wrote:The chinese look down on the other SE Asians. The rest of the SE Asians have no problem mixing among them selves and being friends with each other like the vietnamese, phillippinos, thais etc. But the chinese seem to make it a point to let others know they are chinese and openly indicate they are not se asians and hence better than them.

Looking back at the Cultural Revolution and their inter-dynasty violence, my view is that they are a... strange people. They're probably the only people who's greatest historical violence is not towards an outsider, but towards each other. There isn't even an ethno/religious/linguistic distinction, except to a very limited extent (e.g. persecution of Hakkas, though they're quite successful - Sun Yat-sen and Deng Xiaoping were Hakka). Essentially just clans of people clawing at each other viciously in competition, and running up incredible death tolls while fighting. Everywhere else it was some other religion, race or other artifact that was a motivator. So, while Chinese may be crude towards others, they've historically been cruelest towards one another, not others, and that too, without any specific basis. This is quite different from European colonialist mindset or their own notions of supremacy.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby shiv » 28 Apr 2017 07:13

Suraj wrote:
hanumadu wrote:The chinese look down on the other SE Asians. The rest of the SE Asians have no problem mixing among them selves and being friends with each other like the vietnamese, phillippinos, thais etc. But the chinese seem to make it a point to let others know they are chinese and openly indicate they are not se asians and hence better than them.

Looking back at the Cultural Revolution and their inter-dynasty violence, my view is that they are a... strange people. They're probably the only people who's greatest historical violence is not towards an outsider, but towards each other. There isn't even an ethno/religious/linguistic distinction, except to a very limited extent (e.g. persecution of Hakkas, though they're quite successful - Sun Yat-sen and Deng Xiaoping were Hakka). Essentially just clans of people clawing at each other viciously in competition, and running up incredible death tolls while fighting. Everywhere else it was some other religion, race or other artifact that was a motivator. So, while Chinese may be crude towards others, they've historically been cruelest towards one another, not others, and that too, without any specific basis. This is quite different from European colonialist mindset or their own notions of supremacy.

Well - going down a philosophical route it appears to me (as has been pointed out by many) that communism and Islam demand strict top down discipline with violent punishment to those who rebel. Looks like Chinese culture was made for this.

The concept of complete individual freedom is more in tune with the Indian ethos - and democracy suits this though democracy actually restricts freedoms of a libertarian society. In other words democratic structures may simply have suited Indian society because of the freedoms associated with it.

Which brings me to the point that individual freedom has never been a feature of some societies which may have over tens of centuries simply weeded out any possible genetic lines of people who sought freedoms in favour of retaining people who either try to dominate or submit. In other words - lack of democracy & individual freedoms may be an innate feature of some human societies.

But I digress - the Chinese need to be dealt with in a manner that they understand by behaving in ways hat they do not see as submission. To us the behaviour seems boorish and impolite - but if that is what the Chinese understand - that is what they must get. I am (still) reading Kunal Verma's book on the 1962 war. Many Indian soldiers in those days used to refer to the Chinese as "afeemchis" - or Opium addicts and the Chinese too knew that the Indian army had vast combat experience in WW 2. That contemptuous reference is essential. Nowadays we have to much fake liberalism where we say "We must consider everyone the same and treat everyone with politeness. respect the other person's capabilities and uniqueness" and all that crap. Nonsense. Chinese need to be greeted with a welcome that says "Bugger off cockroach eater"

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby shiv » 28 Apr 2017 07:18

Another gem from the forum lurker, who is willing to be identified as HayaGreevaPutra
The next one is about Family/Clan dynamics in Chinese stories. But first imagine an Indian Family. A joint family of three generations. The youngest gen all hang out together, they are brilliant, and successful in life. But one brother/cousin is different. He is average, and not very remarkable. How would his family treat him? Would they throw him out.? No, typically the family takes care of him the most. And his brothers/cousins will try to help him 'settle' in life. Not in Chinese clans/ families. Everything is a competition between the younger generation. EVERYTHING. Your value to the family lies in not you being part of the family and sharing the same blood but in your utility to the family. The moment you lose your utility, you lose your value. This is the reason why the Chinese are so stuck-up about face and posturing and being seen wearing expensive stuff. Its a signal of their utility as well as their indispensability. A typical staring point for Chinese fantasy stories is to show a Useless guy, who has no talent and no future and how everybody insults him, and suddenly he acquires some secret art or treasure that allows him to "Leap over the dragon gate" Become powerful. Then everybody starts sucking up to him and he takes his revenge on those who wronged and bullied him when he was weak. This point is extremely popular among Chinese readers, which points out the deep insecurity they harbor about their place in society. The most horrible thing is to become a 'useless' person, who can not have a place at any table. So the reason Chinese blindly follow their CPC is not because they think they are telling the truth.

The secret is to understand the fact that to a typical Chinese, it doesn't matter if the govt is lying, as long as listening to the CPC and nodding their heads gives them a sense of belonging to a larger whole. So expecting to convince a Chinese to hate the CPC by proving they are lying is moot, because that's no the reason he follows them. The reason he follows them is because they are Strong and give the Chinese a feeling of belonging to a mythical larger 'Chinese people' where he is part of something important. So the only reason a Chinese will have to lose faith in the CPC is if either they lose their sense of belonging foisted by the CPC or they have doubts regarding the Strength, Power of the CPC. Which is the reason why the CPC has bombarded them with Hyper Nationalism while being paranoid about 'losing face' internationally for it erodes their aura of Strength. For If they lose it, the now fawning masses will eat them alive. SO the Chinese will take any amount of abuse from their CPC, any amount of humiliation, as long as they are convinced of the absolute strength of The CPC. The only time a Chinese will rebel is when he perceives the authority here(CPC) as not being strong. Otherwise when suppressed by absolute strength,like they are now with the CPC, they will go to any lengths to justify their own oppression and will never rebel. That's why those talking of a 'democratic' revolution without weakening the CPC are smoking pot. As long as the CPC is strong, the Chinese will take any amount of suffering.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Kashi » 28 Apr 2017 07:50

Fascinating points Shiv. Just curious to know if the forum lurker would be able to shed more light on a line of thought I was pursuing.

He states that "Otherwise when suppressed by absolute strength,like they are now with the CPC, they will go to any lengths to justify their own oppression and will never rebel."

So, is this abuse and oppression is only accepted when done by Han Chinese? Shouldn't they have behaved the same way when the Japanese gave it to them in the early 2th century..

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby shiv » 28 Apr 2017 07:52

^^I am sure he will read your question. I will point him to it if he does not.

But he did say he will write more about attitudes to the Japanese with the following note
I will organise my thoughts with some notes and get back. But I will give you a hint. In all the stories I read, apart from all the powerful factions There is one Super faction that terrifies everyone. It has some basic characteristics. It's across the ocean, and is typically an Island or an Archipelago. One guess who they must be imagining subconsciously.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby shiv » 28 Apr 2017 07:57

Here is a note from lurker HayaGreevaPutra that I think I missed posting earlier
Next is a Sect/University/Place of learning. We in India are used to a place of learning as a place where everybody is equal and ego has no place. The typical description of a Sect in Chinese stories is that of a sealed can of worms who must eat each other to survive.Everybody is your competitor, and they must be your stepping stones, people whom you trample to increase your own standing. The disparity in resources enjoyed is also blatant and unapologetic. Typically 95% of resources are monopolized by 5% of people, and this is thought to be natural as it differentiates "Mediocre" people from "Heaven's Chosen" This blatant discrimination is rationalized by saying that the resources would be wasted on the 'mediocre' ones while the 'Chosen' would use it to its full potential. Another argument is the phrase "Worship the strong and despise the Weak" Even if the weak are innocent. Because who told them to offend the strong when they cannot afford to?

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 09:22

The sense of finding satisfaction in belonging to a greater whole and cause is probably how radical islam is able to mobilize across vast areas..the horde..the kabila..the qaum..the mob...it gives power to the weak and a chance of grabbing something they cannot do alone.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Baikul » 28 Apr 2017 10:37

shiv wrote:Another gem from the forum lurker, who is willing to be identified as HayaGreevaPutra
.............. Everything is a competition between the younger generation. EVERYTHING. Your value to the family lies in not you being part of the family and sharing the same blood but in your utility to the family. The moment you lose your utility, you lose your value. This is the reason why the Chinese are so stuck-up about face and posturing and being seen wearing expensive stuff. Its a signal of their utility as well as their indispensability. ............Then everybody starts sucking up to him and he takes his revenge on those who wronged and bullied him when he was weak. This point is extremely popular among Chinese readers, which points out the deep insecurity they harbor about their place in society. The most horrible thing is to become a 'useless' person, who can not have a place at any table. ...................


I wonder if this characteristic helps to power the Chinese style of capitalism. There needs to be a more concerted attempt to link various aspects of their national psyche to the pace and characteristics of economic development, and how their businesses function.

As a side note, I have a former classmate who went on to run a European MNC's business venture in China. He came back with incredible stories of rampant state driven snooping, outright theft of proprietary industrial blueprints /designs and corporate information by Chinese employees at the behest of the local government. The jv is close to being terminated.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 15:13

Well that psyche of deadly competition at each rung perhaps explains their jungle capitalist mode. Each year someone rules the smartphone hill there only to be pulled down.
I think they have had a upsc type exam for some 2000 years now (barring periods of anarchy) ...said to be very competitive then as now.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 15:39


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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 15:42

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 19:08

how such a massive country and population can get into violent convulsions is hard to understand for a indian. the most hysteria we see here is at state level over the deaths of beloved leaders like NTR, Amma or MGR and there too, maybe a dozen people kill themselves in sorrow at most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

Other aspects of the Red Guard onslaught were far more destructive, particularly in the realms of culture and religion. Historical sites in every part of the country were ransacked and destroyed. The damage was particularly pronounced in the capital, Beijing, a city rich in history and full of cultural relics, where thousands of designated sites of historical interest were destroyed. Red Guards also laid siege to the Temple of Confucius in Qufu, Shandong province.[39]

During these months of iconoclasm, Red Guards from Beijing Normal University desecrated and badly damaged the burial place of Confucius himself and numerous other historically significant tombs and artifacts. :shock: [40] The corpse of the 76th-generation Duke Yansheng was removed from its grave and hung naked from a tree in front of the palace during the desecration of the cemetery in the Cultural Revolution. :roll:

Libraries full of historical and foreign texts were destroyed; books were burned. Temples, churches, mosques, monasteries, and cemeteries were closed down and sometimes converted to other uses, looted, and destroyed.[42] Marxist propaganda depicted Buddhism as superstition, and religion was looked upon as a means of hostile foreign infiltration :roll: , as well as an instrument of the 'ruling class'.[43] Clergy were arrested and sent to camps; many Tibetan Buddhists were forced to participate in the destruction of their monasteries at gunpoint.[43]

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 19:09

based on what I read, chinese are just another form of the radical islam/plunderer kabila 'horde' concept....always needing resources to keep expanding to survive else the system will fall back and eat itself.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 19:14

during the great leap forward, producing steel by any means was a prime goal...

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the parents of todays early middle age chinese had to survive through these huge convulsions that killed tens of millions. it would surely impact their worldview and the upbringing of their kid.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 19:18

Public criticism sessions were often used to intimidate the peasants into obeying local cadres; they increased the death rate of the famine in several ways, according to Thaxton. "In the first case, blows to the body caused internal injuries that, in combination with physical emaciation and acute hunger, could induce death." In one case, after a peasant stole two cabbages from the common fields, the thief was publicly criticized for half a day. He collapsed, fell ill, and never recovered. Others were sent to labor camps.[28]

Frank Dikötter writes that beatings with sticks was the most common method used by local cadres and roughly half of all cadres regularly pummeled or caned people. Other cadres devised harsher means to humiliate and torture those who failed to keep up. As mass starvation set in, ever greater violence had to be inflicted in order to coerce malnourished people to labor in the fields. Victims were buried alive, thrown bound into ponds, stripped naked and forced to labor in the middle of winter, doused in boiling water, forced to ingest excrement and urine, and subjected to mutilation (hair ripped out, noses and ears lopped off). In Guangdong, some cadres injected salt water into their victims with needles normally reserved for cattle.[29] Around 6 to 8 percent of those who died during the Great Leap Forward were tortured to death or summarily killed.[30]

Benjamin Valentino notes that "communist officials sometimes tortured and killed those accused of failing to meet their grain quota.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 19:22

chairman mao in total between the cultural revolution + great leap forward + civil war vs KMT killed or destroyed the lives of around 100 million people.

and hitler is held as a devil for starting a war that killed some 20 million + 6 million jews. a small fry.

other famous tyrants even less.

Stalinji no sure whats his tally - high for sure.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby JayS » 28 Apr 2017 19:41

Singha wrote:
the parents of todays early middle age chinese had to survive through these huge convulsions that killed tens of millions. it would surely impact their worldview and the upbringing of their kid.


On that topic I once read a blog (tried but couldn't find it, was many years ago) which was meant to give some insight into the generation gap of CR generations and post CR generations. Since it was a blog and hence personal opinion from personal experiences it should be taken as such. But basically it tried to impress with many examples how "living on the edge" was considered living by the older generations and how they would consider new post CR generations who have not seen any of that, particularly the generations post 1990s, to be "pu$$ies". He gave many examples ranging from as trivial as road crossing to that famous dangerous trek of one Chinese Temple on Mount Huasan. Fir example, An old guy would walk as casually on the trail at Mount Huasan as he would cross the road without much looking around (Not his exact words or even meaning, I am paraphrasing the essence). And he would constantly taunt his grandson, who is more fearful and more careful while doing the same things, how weak he is and how he doesn't know to live life. The unnecessary bravado or risk taking was kind of mixture of both bravado and also a kind of disregard to dangers (you know, "jyada se jyada kya hoga" kind of attitude), perhaps due to the awful years through which they survived during CR and all. Or maybe it was like that for centuries in Chinese societies.

But on the other hand it seems the one child policy was a boon for younger generation, who would have had much harsher upbringing, if not for being single kid. Even then the parents are highly forceful with the kids, it seems. I have seem some documentaries on sports training where they put the kids in training schools at very young age of 3 and then basically beat them into shape by quite harsh training for 4-5yrs so they can one day get Olympic medal. (Wasn;t there some issue regarding underage Chinese gymnasts from Beijing Olympics?). This thing is quite evident from Chinese cinema as well.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby chola » 28 Apr 2017 20:06

I still say the best method of dealing with their boasting is attacking them and punching them in the back of their f:cking heads. All this psycho stuff (sorry, psycho"logy" is pseudo-science if you ask me) won't change the world they live in.

Delusional people don't suffer from their delusions unless someone force feed them the real world. In fact, it is probably a benefit to their mental health and well-being if someone is deluded enough to fully believe in their own greatness and superiority.

Day after day, OBOR, Olympics, AIIB, top trading title, Korea-Japan and EU competing for ugly Chinaman tourist, etc. all contribute to their well-being. It would be great if we can, as Shiv suggests, tell them to "Bugger off, roach-eater" when they approach us. But other than a few paid 50-cents operatives like Liu, they do not live in our world.

So how do we force feed them the real world and get rid of their delusions of superiority and arrogance? By kinetic force! See how arrogant you are with a Brahmos up your arse! It is time we reverse 1962 anyways.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby shiv » 28 Apr 2017 20:57

Kashi wrote:Fascinating points Shiv. Just curious to know if the forum lurker would be able to shed more light on a line of thought I was pursuing.

He states that "Otherwise when suppressed by absolute strength,like they are now with the CPC, they will go to any lengths to justify their own oppression and will never rebel."

So, is this abuse and oppression is only accepted when done by Han Chinese? Shouldn't they have behaved the same way when the Japanese gave it to them in the early 2th century..

Answers to your questions from HayagreevaPutra
There are many assumptions in this question.

Assumption 1. That somehow the Japanese were a "special case" in terms of the no of atrocities, their cruelty and suffering inflicted on the Chinese. That what the Japanese did was somehow far worse than anything the Chinese ever experienced. That there was no comparison. Wrong. What the Chinese did to their own people and what their Dynasties and Emperors inflicted is FAR worse. As an example, how did the Japanese punish rebellion.? Summary execution. Maybe a little dramatic with beheading by Katana, but that was it. How did the Chinese emperor punish "rebellion"? (Which btw could include anything from farting in presence to looking at him in a way he thought was funny). Nine familial extermination/annihilation. What does this mean.? It means to kill nine generations of the criminal's family,The criminal's living parents, The criminal's living grandparents, Any children the criminal may have and if married their spouses, Any grandchildren the criminal may have and if married their spouses, Siblings and siblings-in-law, Uncles and aunts of the criminal, as well as their spouses, The criminal's cousins, The criminal's spouse , The criminal's spouse's parents , and finally after watching all of their executions, the criminal was executed by dismemberment. Such joy. Nanjing festivities? When the Manchu fell, all of Manchu women were forced to marry and have children with non-Manchus, so as to destroy bloodlines and Kinship groups. The same happened with any defeated group. So, comparing what the Chinese did to themselves via their dynasties etc, the Japanese for all their bad rep would not even reach middle tier in terms of Historical cruelty and atrocities done by Chinese themselves. So, this claim that what the Japanese did some how scarred China is a piece of Chinese propaganda. What the Chinese did to themselves was far worse. The reason people fall for this is because they are unfamiliar with Chinese history and their obscene bodycount in internal warfare. So, what an Indian or a European might consider to be very high bodycount, is not even a big blip on the Chinese historical radar. This myth serves to paint themselves as victims and to " avenge the century of humiliation ", Nevermind they were humiliated many times before, but by their own people, so blaming them wouldn't serve to consolidate power now would it?

Assumption 2. Why don't the Chinese hate their own dynasties but hate the Japanese.?

What makes you think they don't hate their own dynasties? But it is a very special and unique way of hating that a non-Chinese won't get. Let's take an example. There is a dynasty A, which was overthrown after bloody warfare and obscene bodycount. Dynasty B is now in charge. What they will do is proclaim they have the " Mandate of Heaven" and blame Dynasty A for all evils and atrocities. So, A becomes the scapegoat for B to consolidate power. Then B falls and after another time of bloody warfare C is now in charge. They will push all the blame onto B and say how Dynasty A was falsely accused when they were actually righteous and Just. Now, B becomes the scapegoat and A's " Mandate of Heaven" is inherited by C, who "cleared his name" and "Avenged the injustice done to them". So, whenever a new dynasty takes power in China they will blame their immediate predecessors for all evils and proclaim themselves as the inheritors of all the Good things done by everybody before these predecessors. So, who ever came before becomes a hate object. Who came before the CPC? The Japanese. So, the Japanese are the hate objects. Interestingly both the Nationalists and Communists (Who both claimed separately their right to rule China) Promoted hatred against the Japanese for their " Atrocities" as a means to consolidate their power and proclaim their right to the new " Mandate of heaven". So, If the CPC falls in the future, they will become the scapegoats who will be the incarnation of the devil. We have already seen a "Mini" version of this in how the "Gang of Four" were purged and eventually blamed for all the Pre-Deng mistakes, there by allowing the CPC to consolidate it's base with a new "Mandate of Heaven" . So, this promotion of the hatred of the predecessor dynasty by the current dynasty is a regular feature of Chinese history and The Japanese are the latest victims of this.

So, hate the immediate Predecessor dynasty but love everybody before them. Which is the reason why the Chinese seem to be okay with Atrocities committed by their own, When it's because those who came before the current crop of leaders were Japanese. If they were Chinese, you would see that particular faction demonized and not the Japanese.

Assumption 3. That hatred towards the Japanese is somehow a spontaneous natural Chinese reaction that the CPC is now hijacking for its own ends.

Wrong again. Both the Chinese nationalists and Communists in CPC used the Japanese as scapegoats and hate objects, in an effort to legitimize their hold on power. The hatred towards the Japanese is artificially maintained and Channelized by the CPC into legitimizing their hold on power, by using Education to brainwash the Chinese people. By stating that the CPC is the one who has the "Heavenly right" to rule because they are the ones who are going "Avenge" them. Which is why this artificial hared causes a cognitive dissonance in the Chinese where they hate the Japanese politically, but love EVERYTHING Japanese culturally, down to Japanese po*nography. Because Historically speaking, the Chinese have more reason to hate their own people than the Japanese. They know this subconsciously, But the current political/power dynamics will not allow their minds to consciously accept it. Which is why they will go apeshit the moment you point fingers at their own Historical blunders and inadequacies, because acknowledging them will bring the whole mental " House of Cards" down. They would much rather blame the Japanese in daytime and go back to Jacking off to Japanese p*rn at night. Anything else is harmful to their mental health.

I hope that answers the question by both you and Kashi ji about the Japanese.


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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby chola » 28 Apr 2017 21:06

SriJoy wrote:
chola wrote:I still say the best method of dealing with their boasting is attacking them and punching them in the back of their f:cking heads. All this psycho stuff (sorry, psycho"logy" is pseudo-science if you ask me) won't change the world they live in.

Delusional people don't suffer from their delusions unless someone force feed them the real world. In fact, it is probably a benefit to their mental health and well-being if someone is deluded enough to fully believe in their own greatness and superiority.

Day after day, OBOR, Olympics, AIIB, top trading title, Korea-Japan and EU competing for ugly Chinaman tourist, etc. all contribute to their well-being. It would be great if we can, as Shiv suggests, tell them to "Bugger off, roach-eater" when they approach us. But other than a few paid 50-cents operatives like Liu, they do not live in our world.

So how do we force feed them the real world and get rid of their delusions of superiority and arrogance? By kinetic force! See how arrogant you are with a Brahmos up your arse! It is time we reverse 1962 anyways.


The thing with China is, they care more about losing face than anyone else on this planet. Translated into warfare, it means they will fight not just for strategic and tactical goals, but also to save face. So 'sticking BRAHMOS up their hiney' will work to teach them a lesson, if and only if, we are prepared to escalate to full-scale war or atleast, have a strong enough conventional force to deter them from doing so. Because unlike PAK or other nations, it won't just be a border skirmish with finger-pointing. It will escalate, as the Chinese have the need to deliver 'the last blow' due to psychological reasons.



I think the face thing is bullshit if you ever had to deal PRC (not just chini) businessmen. It is far more important for the Chini diaspora than for the PRC. Face is a lever that keeps a Taiwanese or Hongkie or a Han Singaporean from screwing you on an agreement based simply on a handshake. Try trusting face to for with someone from the PRC.

The same goes for WTO and trade negotiatons as well as tech transfers. They will debase themselves to lowest level ("we're 3rd world, we need the same deal as Somalia", "we're poor and backwards, we need you to give this chip design") if it means gaining an advantage.

Being considered an untrustworthy cheat and a pauper needing special treatment wouldn't give them much face whatever their criteria are.

So a nice little attack with gains just to the 1962 borders -- maybe a wee bit more -- while they are engaged with more critical (to them) stuff in the East? It might not necessarily result in an all out nuclear war. Unlike the diaspora chinis they might not let face or pride or whatever intangibles get in the way of survival.

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Suraj » 28 Apr 2017 21:49

Sounds like HayagreevaPutra is saying the same things I am :) Would be nice if he (re)joined but let's respect his anonymity for now...

As I mentioned multiple times across multiple threads recently, the Chinese have been most cruel and vicious towards themselves. Most of the world simply doesn't know or realize the import of the ridiculous killing stats they've generated essentially every dynastic switch . At the start of Common Era, as the Han dynasty fell apart, 4 million died . But back then the *world* population was what, 150 million ?

They've been almost literally decimating their population at the end of every dynastic epoch . No other civilization comes close . We make a big deal of the 1857 War of Independence, a history altering conflict . By their standards that was a minor skirmish .

They will be predisposed to tenaciously grab any little advantage they can . It's a survival instinct. They also don't seek status quo because really, look at it like a Chinese - what is 'status quo' ? They need to keep moving because they could get killed in a future epochal war . Their intent will always be to grab as much as they can , when they can, because the unspoken insecurity behind it is that they know they can lose it just as quickly .

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Re: Roots of Chinese boastfulness - history & psyche

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2017 22:09

vast economic system of prison camps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai


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