Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

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Peregrine
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Peregrine »

IndraD wrote:even more horrifying part is this time there is an Indian named Pillai in the sex grooming gang of Newcastle! ^^
IndraD Ji :

Jailed: Predators who exploited Newcastle's most vulnerable girls and women locked up for 180 years

10. Prabhat Nelli, 33, of Corporation Road, Newcastle
Two counts of supplying drugs, one count of conspiracy to incite prostitution. Jailed for four years.

Nelli is One out of EIGHTEEN! - ONE TOO MANY!. SIXTEEN MUSLIMS!

Cheers Image
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

British Harvey (Weinstein) awards."And the Harvey goes too......Defence Minister ,the Right dishonourable Sir Micheal Fallon!!!"

What a turn up for the book.Sir Michael Fall-on your own sword,after just sacking several RN submariners for indulging in hanky-panky underwater without their underwear,launching "torpedoes" without approval-you get my drift,has shockingly fallen on his own sword for not living up to standards expected of his poltical standing,blah,blah.What hypocrisy.It's well known for centuries what happens at Westminster,and sadly Like dear old Profumo before him,Sir Michael had to commit sepekku,British style with an apologetic speech.How the mighty have fall-on.Hubris dear chap,hubris.Sir Michael can however take a sliver of comfort,as he is Britain's first victim of the "Harvey" global pandemic affecting the high and mighty in the western world.
He's in v.good company.Apart from Harvey W, Kevin Spacey,and now Dustbin Hoffman has also been accused of impropriety! This disease was noticed a few decades ago when a certain well-known director Roman Polanski had to flee Hollywood to Europe lest he succumbed to the US health authorities in Sing Sing,etc.!

Some years ago it was revealed that former PM Sir John Major's favourite dish was "Currie".Curry happens to be the fav. dish of Brits,but Major's Currie was called "Edwina" his ministerial colleague,who once famously said,"you can't ban making a pass at someone from workplace!"
Funny how the name Edwina is associated with scandals...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11 ... e-scandal/
Ruth Davidson claims 'dam has broken' on Westminster sleaze scandal

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader CREDIT: STEFAN ROUSSEAU/PA
Jack Maidment, political correspondent
2 NOVEMBER 2017 • 8:42AM
Ruth Davidson has claimed the “dam has broken” on the Westminster sleaze scandal after Sir Michael Fallon resigned as defence secretary.

Ms Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, said that the “boys' own locker room culture” that has prevailed in “male-dominated professions” now “has got to stop”.

She also warned that “pretty big shovels” will be required to clear out the Westminster “stable” in the weeks ahead.
Ms Davidson’s intervention came as a tide of allegations and rumours relating to sexual harassment and abuse continue to grip Westminster.

The scandal claimed its first big scalp on Wednesday evening when Sir Michael quit his post after admitting his behaviour had "fallen below the high standards required" in the role.

Ms Davidson told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: “As lawmakers and people that make decisions we have to hold ourselves, our personal conduct, to a high standard, we have to run our offices, our personal offices, to the high standard as well as public office and the offices of state to a high standard.

“The dam has broken on this now and these male-dominated professions, overwhelmingly male-dominated professions, where the boys' own locker room culture has prevailed and it has all been a bit of a laugh has got to stop.”

Theresa May, the Prime Minister, and Sir Michael Fallon, the former defence secretary CREDIT: DOMINIC LIPINSKI/PA
The Scottish Tory leader likened the need to clean up Westminster to Hercules’ fifth labour when he was ordered to clear out King Augeas’ stables.

Speaking at the annual Spectator magazine awards dinner on Wednesday night, she said: “Just because we have a woman in Number 10, at the top of the tree in Plaid Cymru, in the Scottish Conservatives and the SNP, in the DUP, doesn’t mean that sexism and misogyny are somehow resigned to the dustbin of history when it comes to politics nor when we look at some of the house-clearing that is going to be, and needs to happen in the next few weeks, months and years ahead are we going to say that we didn’t need some pretty big shovels for the Augean stable.”

Sir Michael's shock announcement came after it emerged he had repeatedly put his hand on a journalist's knee at a dinner in 2002.
His resignation will fuel speculation that other ministers could also be forced to resign.

When allegations of sexual misconduct first began circulating last week, ministers were warned by Downing Street that "serious action" would be taken by Theresa May where necessary.

Two of Sir Michael’s former ministerial colleagues are the subject of probes
Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood is looking into claims made against Mrs May's de facto deputy Damian Green.

The Cabinet Office investigation was launched after activist Kate Maltby, who is three decades younger than the First Secretary of State, told The Times that Mr Green "fleetingly" touched her knee during a meeting in a Waterloo pub in 2015, and claimed that a year later sent her a "suggestive" text message after she was pictured wearing a corset in the newspaper.

Mr Green said any allegation that he made sexual advances to Ms Maltby was "untrue (and) deeply hurtful".

He has strenuously denied the claims and has instructed libel lawyers, and is also prepared to release text messages he sent to her to try to prove his innocence.

The department is separately probing whether international trade minister Mark Garnier breached the ministerial code after he reportedly admitted asking his secretary to buy sex toys and calling her "sugar t**s".

Mrs May is expected to appoint Sir Michael’s replacement on Thursday morning.
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... [b]Michael Fallon's resignation is ridiculous, says female journalist at centre of 'kneegate'
'This is the most insane, absurd and ridiculous resignation of a cabinet minister ever'[/b]

Henry Austin
Julia Hartley-Brewer, the journalist who was touched on the knee by Sir Michael Fallon has called his resignation "ridiculous" but said she doubts that the incident was the reason for him quitting.

"If this is over kneegate, him touching my knee 15 years ago and me not having any issue with it today, this is the most insane, absurd and ridiculous resignation of a cabinet minister ever," she told Sky News.
"However I don't think that is the reason."


READ MORE
Fallon’s resignation means May’s government risks being tainted by “sl
Read Theresa May's response to Michael Fallon's resignation in full
Read the Defence Secretary's resignation letter in full
Michael Fallon resigns as Defence Secretary
Sir Michael has previously apologised for the incident at a Conservative Party conference dinner in 2002. He said he had "overstepped the mark".

Taking to Twitter after news of his resignation broke, Ms Hartley Brewer said: "Bloody Hell".
The talkRADIO host added: "I doubt my knee was the reason".

In the subsequent interview with Sky News, she said: "I doubt very much if one of the standards they require in the armed forces means that no man in the military has ever touched the knee of a younger woman.
:rotfl:

Julia Hartley-Brewer ✔@JuliaHB1
#Kneegate (although I doubt my knee was the reason) https://twitter.com/juliahb1/status/925808562651258881

"I think he has been a very good Defence Secretary and I'm sad that a leading member of this Government has fallen at a time when this Government is on very shaky ground. I want a Government that can run the country and push through Brexit."

Accusations of sexual misconduct have surrounded Sir Michael in recent days after he admitted to feeling a female journalist’s knee in 2002.

In a letter to Number 10, Sir Michael said: “A number of allegations have surfaced about MPs in recent days including some about my previous conduct.

“Many of these have been false but I accept that in the past I have fallen below the high standards we require of the armed forces that I have the honour to represent.

“I have reflected on my position and I am therefore resigning as Defence Secretary.”

In her reply to Sir Michael's resignation letter, Prime Minister Theresa May said: "I appreciate the characteristically serious manner in which you have considered your position, and the particular example you wish to set to servicemen and women and others."[/quote]
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

Britain goes to war!.....with itself,as a civil war breaks out within the Tory party and ex-chiefs firing off their salvoes criticising Mad-am May on appointing one of her young lackeys as Def. Min.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 33856.html
Ex-British Army chief says Theresa May's choice for Defence Secretary not the best choice 'from a defence point of view'
Exclusive: Lord Dannatt told The Independent the Prime Minister had chosen to make a 'heavily political' appointment


Joe Watts Political Editor @JoeWatts_ Thursday 2 November 2017

An ex-head of the British Army has said Theresa May’s decision to make her loyal chief whip the new Defence Secretary is not the best choice "from a defence point of view".

Richard Dannatt told The Independent that a minister at the MoD would have been a better option, but instead Ms May had made a “heavily political” decision to promote Gavin Williamson because he is a trusted lieutenant.

It comes amid a parliamentary backlash following the boost for Mr Williamson, who also ran Ms May's leadership campaign, with one MP describing it as an “HMS Pinafore appointment” - a reference to the famous comic opera - and another senior backbencher calling the Prime Minister's decision "extraordinary". :rotfl:

READ MORE
Williamson: How the 'baby-faced assassin' became Defence Secretary
Speaking just hours after the move was announced, Lord Dannatt said he had found the appointment, “quite surprising”.
He explained: “It is obviously heavily political in so far as she has chosen a leading lieutenant to support her in Cabinet.

“That’s fine, but I’m interested in the furtherance of our defence effort, with our budget under pressure and as Michael Fallon has started to speak publicly about the need to increase spending – I hope [Mr Williamson] quickly comes to the same conclusion.”

Lord Dannatt, chief of the general staff between 2006 and 2009, said that he believes defence spending needs to increase by between 0.25 per cent and 0.5 per cent of GDP.

He went on: “I said this morning that promoting one of the existing defence ministers would be the best outcome from a defence point of view, but I fully respect the PM’s desire to give a senior job in Cabinet to a trusted lieutenant.”

After Sir Michael resigned amid allegations in the growing Westminster sexual harassment scandal, names in the frame for the MoD top job had been Defence Minister Ben Wallace, Penny Mordaunt, an ex-defence minister now at the Department for Work and Pensions, and Brandon Lewis, the Immigration Minister.

Mr Williamson’s recent experience is in working closely with the Prime Minister, he has been critical to efforts to stabilise Ms May’s administration in the wake of the election – helping broker a deal with the DUP and ensuring the Government’s legislative programme has backing.

His appointment also helps to keep the Brexit balance of the Cabinet, as Mr Williamson was a remainer like Sir Michael, whereas Ms Mordaunt was a Leaver. Mr Wallace is a close ally of Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

New Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson (Getty Images)
On Thursday morning Conservative MPs also questioned the ex-chief whip’s suitability for the defence job, with one telling The Independent it was “a real HMS Pinafore appointment”.

The comment is a reference to Gilbert and Sullivan's opera, which contains a song carrying the lyric: “Stick close to your desks and never go to sea, and you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee”.

With chief whips usually playing a central role in Cabinet reshuffles, Downing Street was forced to state that Mr Williamson had nothing to do with this particular one.

But a senior MP was not convinced saying: “Gavin is all about making sure Gavin is in a position from which Gavin can become Prime Minister. In this instance he has been judge, jury and executioner to Fallon and he is now also the beneficiary. :mrgreen:

Michael Fallon announces resignation as Defence Secretary
"It's extraordinary that she sanctioned it. She could have made a major statement and appointed Penny as the first female Defence Secretary."

A second backbencher told The Independent: “It doesn’t exactly symbolise a Prime Minister who is confident in her own position, does it.”
A Number 10 spokesman said: “Gavin Williamson was an excellent and hardworking chief whip and the Prime Minister thinks he will make an excellent Defence Secretary.”

More about: Michael FallonTheresa May
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

May-day!May-day!Tories in a fratricidal war over the independent actions of BoJo and Priti Patel,plus more "Sexminster" exposes to come.May's appointment of her crony Chief Whip as DM after Fallon fell-on his on sword over a sex harassment scandal,has put her on the defensive too.
Theresa May under pressure to sack Boris Johnson and Priti Patel over humiliating errors
Conservative MPs join opposition voices calling for the pair of ministers to go

Joe Watts Political Editor
Theresa May met Benjamin Netanyahu last week, but no mention was made of the Priti Patel visit Getty Images
Theresa May is under increasing pressure to strip two more cabinet ministers of their jobs following separate fiascos involving Priti Patel and Boris Johnson.

Senior Conservatives said both ministers had committed sackable offences which had materially damaged the UK’s interests and those of its citizens.
The furore around Ms Patel’s unofficial trip to Israel grew, as it emerged she may have omitted to tell Ms May she discussed funnelling UK aid cash to the country’s army despite Downing Street asking for full details of her visit.

READ MORE
Priti Patel's unimprovable press release
Foreign Secretary Mr Johnson tied himself in knots in the House of Commons, denying he made comments that were clearly recorded in Parliament and which led to the Iranian judiciary threatening to double a British woman’s prison sentence.

The twin ministerial gaffes come less than a week after the Prime Minister pushed Sir Michael Fallon out of her Cabinet, following allegations about sexually inappropriate behaviour, but then damaged her already weakened authority and angered MPs by appointing a loyal lieutenant to replace him with little ministerial experience.

It first emerged on Friday that International Development Secretary Priti Patel, often talked of as a future Tory leader, had a string of meetings with Israeli politicians – including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – while on holiday without telling Downing Street.

A senior Conservative told The Independent: “Ministers must uphold collective responsibility and mustn’t engage in activity that undermines the collective work of the Cabinet.

“Ministers may always meet people by chance, but you should always keep the Government informed. You don’t allow yourself to do be pulled into a major programme of tours and meetings, particularly which impact on your official role.”
The Tory MP added: “If the Prime Minister wanted to sack a minister for this kind of thing she could.”

Ms May only found out about Ms Patel’s trip months later, and on Monday censured her at a meeting at which the minister was told to set out everyone she had met and what had taken place.

It then emerged on Tuesday that the ambitious cabinet minister discussed possibly funnelling UK aid cash to the Israel Defence Forces, to support Syrian civil war refugees arriving in the Golan Heights where the IDF has a field hospital.

But Downing Street could not say the idea, already condemned by the Palestinian authorities, had been revealed to Ms May at the “tell all” meeting the day before.

Asked whether Ms Patel would face further censure, Number 10 drew a line under the matter, saying it was not clear if the International Development Secretary had breached the ministerial code and that the code would be reviewed to iron out any ambiguity.

Priti Patel leaving Downing Street (Reuters)
An urgent question was called on the affair in the Commons, but Ms Patel failed to show as she had another trip to Ethiopia, leading Labour and other opposition parties to vent their anger.

Shadow International Development Secretary Kate Osamor said Ms Patel should do “the decent thing” and resign, saying: “It is hard to think of a more black and white case of breaking the code of ministerial conduct. Rather than changing the minister, the Prime Minister has decided to change the ministerial code.”

The Lib Dem spokesman Shas Sheehan said: “[Ms Patel] has forfeited the respect of colleagues and officials and should go.”

In the Commons, Tories held off overtly calling for Ms Patel’s head, with former Foreign Affairs Select Committee chairman Crispin Blunt telling one of her junior ministers he should “take her very gently in hand” and sort the situation out.

Boris Johnson claims no connection between his comments and Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s sentence
Mr Johnson, meanwhile, found himself furiously backpedalling over comments he made about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

The 38-year-old British woman was arrested and jailed in Iran, accused of spreading propaganda, with a central part of her defence being that she had never worked teaching journalists in the country, but was merely there on holiday.

But when Mr Johnson mistakenly told MPs in a public hearing that she had been teaching journalists, Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe was hauled in front of an Iranian court and threatened with another five years in prison – on top of her existing five-year sentence.

READ MORE
Who did Patel meet while on 'holiday' in Israel?
In a bid to defend Mr Johnson’s gaffe, fellow cabinet minister Liam Fox said his words were akin to “slips of the tongue” that anyone can make.

But a senior Conservative backbencher told The Independent: “Johnson should go.
“How could he be so cavalier with his words when the freedom, health and sanity of a British national is at risk.
“I felt ashamed listening to Liam Fox trying to defend him.”
Conservative former minister Anna Soubry said on Twitter that in “normal times”, Mr Johnson would have been sacked.

Anna Soubry said Mr Johnson would have been sacked in ‘normal times’ (AFP/Getty)
She added: “The lack of contrition is as shameful as the original error. Boris Johnson doesn’t understand magnitude of the job & responsibility he holds.”

Mr Johnson made a phone call to his Iranian counterpart in a bid to repair the damage, and argued that in the original committee he had been making a wider point about how it was wrong to arrest anyone for teaching journalists.

He told MPs he is sorry if his remarks about a British woman jailed in Iran had been “so misconstrued” to have caused anxiety to her family.
But the Foreign Secretary stopped short of meeting repeated requests to admit he made a mistake and offer an unequivocal apology.

Downing Street said Ms May still had “full confidence” in him, with Ms May’s official spokesman saying: “The Foreign Secretary is doing a good job and working hard to represent Britain’s interests abroad.”
But the lack of action against either minister only served to underline the difficulty of Ms May’s position.
Having lost Sir Michael last week, two further ministers, Damian Green and Mark Garnier, face Cabinet Office investigations over inappropriate behaviour.
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

Poor Priti Patel who was in a "pretty (Guju) pickle,pardon the pun,has now been "consigned to the dustbin! May in a Perfect Storm,will she last out until Christmas before calling "May-Day,May-Day..."? Who should be the next Brit PM? Santa Claus what?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 44981.html
Theresa May faces 'make or break' month after cabinet chaos forces Priti Patel out
Conservatives give the Prime Minister until Christmas to turn her administration around following second Cabinet departure

Joe Watts Political Editor

Theresa May faces a “make-or-break” month after chaos in her Cabinet saw her lose a second top minister in a week.
After Priti Patel was effectively sacked on Wednesday, senior Conservatives told The Independent the Prime Minister has until Christmas to improve the Government’s performance.

Ms Patel was pushed out after she embarrassed Ms May by holding a series of unofficial meetings with top Israeli politicians, without telling Downing Street.

READ MORE
Priti Patel's flight to remember
It appeared she would avoid losing her job after disclosing details of the meetings and apologising, but she then angered the Prime Minister when it emerged some details had been withheld.

It comes as two other cabinet members, Damian Green and Boris Johnson, are also in the spotlight, as pressure mounts to make progress in Brexit talks, amid the growing sexual harassment scandal and just days after Ms May forced Sir Michael Fallon out of his job following allegations of inappropriate behaviour.

One minister told The Independent the loss of her ministers did not in itself pose a terminal threat to Ms May’s Government, but argued that the direction of travel had to change.

The frontbencher said: “There is cumulative effect and there is a danger for the Prime Minister that she could be perceived as having lost control of events.
“That is a very difficult thing to regain once that perception is created.

“This next month to six weeks is make-or-break time. Not just domestically, not just with the EU withdrawal Bill and the Budget, but with the European Council in December and whether we get ‘sufficient progress’ in Brexit talks.”

READ MORE
Patel ‘visited Israeli military hospital in occupied Golan Heights’
Priti Patel is in Cabinet because she's 'Asian', says senior Tory MP :oops: *(racist Tory scumbag!)
Theresa May is still losing her grip on the Government
Priti Patel announces resignation from Cabinet- as it happened
A timeline of how the Patel scandal developed
Tory MP ridiculed for claim 'Remoaners' stoking Patel controversy
Another senior Conservative said: “She has until Christmas to turn it around.”

Ms May forced Ms Patel to quit after she held a series of meetings with top Israeli figures, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, without informing Number 10, and then still did not disclose all the details despite being given the chance.

The ex-international development secretary arrived at Downing Street at about 6pm on Wednesday for an hour-long face-to-face with the Prime Minister, having been ordered back to the country from Africa.

In a letter to Ms May published afterwards, Ms Patel said: “I accept that in a meeting with organisations and politicians during a private holiday in Israel my actions fell below the high standards that are expected of a secretary of state.

Theresa May under pressure to sack Boris Johnson and Priti Patel over humiliating errors
“While my actions were meant with the best of intentions, my actions also fell below the standards of transparency and openness that I have promoted and advocated.

“I offer a fulsome apology to you and to the Government for what has happened and offer my resignation.”
In response the Prime Minister reminded Ms Patel that cooperation between Israel and the UK had to take place “formally, and through official channels”.

gettyimages-871761748.jpg
Priti Patel puts on a brave face as she leaves Downing Street (Getty)
She added: “Now that further details have come to light, it is right that you have decided to resign and adhere to the high standards of transparency and openness that you have advocated.”

It first emerged last Friday that Ms Patel had travelled to Israel for a 13-day visit, which she described as a “holiday” paid for by herself.
During the trip she was accompanied in meetings by Lord Polak, president of Conservative Friends of Israel, and discussed departmental business.


It triggered accusations that she had ignored ministerial rules that she should tell the Foreign Office about overseas business and embarrassed Ms May who was kept in the dark about it for months. :rotfl:

Theresa May met Benjamin Netanyahu without knowing Ms Patel had met him a few weeks before (Getty Images)
When the trips emerged, Ms Patel initially told a reporter that Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office had been informed, but later admitted in a statement that it was not.

She publicly apologised and accepted that she had not acted in “accord with the usual procedures”, and was forced at a meeting with Ms May to set out all of the appointments she had in Israel, 12 in total.

But over the next two days details of her trip and other meetings emerged that had not been shared, including that she discussed the idea of handing UK aid cash to the Israeli army to carry out humanitarian operations in the Golan Heights, that she had visited an Israeli field hospital there and had a further meeting with another Israeli minister, Gilad Erdan, in Westminster – which he tweeted about.

One fellow frontbencher told The Independent: “It was inevitable and right and frankly I would have just sacked her immediately without summoning her home, and then told her to find her own way home.

“She broke every elementary rule in the book.”

Ms Patel won some backing from Brexit supporting MPs, but even many of those accepted what had happened, with one Conservative saying: “She had to go didn’t she. You get the suspicion she was out their canvassing for a leadership bid.

READ MORE
A timeline of how the Patel scandal developed
“That’s what it feels like – something that was ambitious, but ultimately rather clumsy.”

Another Tory said the furore around her meetings may yet be damaging, despite her removal, adding: “It’s not entirely clear that we have got to the bottom of who said what to whom, but this does seem mainly self-inflicted.”

Labour said it would continue pressing for more information about how much the Prime Minister knew about Ms Patel's secret meetings.
Shadow International Development Secretary Kate Osamor said Ms May must either get control of her “decaying government” or step aside.
Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokeswoman Jo Swinson said: “Number 10 must answer questions about their complicity in this scandal.”

Boris Johnson claims no connection between his comments and Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's sentence
Ms May’s authority will now be under intense scrutiny as she handles difficulties faced by other ministers – she cannot be seen to be letting them get away with mistakes or misdemeanours, but can ill-afford to further destabilise her administration by sacking more of her cabinet.

On Tuesday Foreign Secretary Mr Johnson found himself furiously backpedalling over comments he made about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

The 38-year-old British woman was arrested and jailed in Iran, accused of spreading propaganda, with a central part of her defence being that she had never worked teaching journalists in the country, but was merely there on holiday.

But when Mr Johnson mistakenly told MPs in a public hearing that she had been teaching journalists, Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe was hauled in front of an Iranian court and threatened with another five years in prison – on top of her existing five-year sentence.

Ex-defence secretary Michael Fallon was pushed out a week ago following claims that he made inappropriate advances on journalists and made poorly judged comments to other MPs before becoming a minister, and after joining the cabinet to fellow frontbenchers too – though he denies it.

Damian Green, Ms May’s effective deputy, and Mark Garnier, face Cabinet Office investigations over allegations of inappropriate behaviour. Mr Green denies allegations against him
panduranghari
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by panduranghari »

Priti Patel will be a PM some day. At least she will be a contender. Lets hope she prevails in this internal war. May is taking the Tories down with her. And I still believe Corbyn will be the next PM.

Last year we were wondering if Corbyn even survives, but he is still standing and he will truly deliver the coup d'etat the British establishment fear. While the UK establishment is overwhelmingly pro Arab (ergo pro Islam), I do not think they want someone in the top job openly rooting for islamic cause like Corbyn does.
Rupesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Rupesh »

JE Menon
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by JE Menon »

Jacob Rees Mogg will become Prime Minister
Philip
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Philip »

"Perfidious Albion" as always.In fact it is the English , not Scots ,Welsh and Irish who are the running dogs of imperialism.Read a great book recently which showed that Wales was the true heart of England and how the Welsh were put down and their heritage ignored and buried by the Anglo-Saxons and Normans even from Roman times.

The GOI must summon the Brit. HC and read te riot act out to him if Perfidious Albion pursues its deplorable ICJ policy.

A quick passage home for him , India to leave the Commonwealth, immediate recognition for Scottish and Welsh independence and a temp.ban on Indian students studying in Blighty! Indo-UK def ties to be downgraded too.Massive hike in visa fees to India for Eng. citizens.Spl. " on arrival" discounted fees for Scots, Welsh etc.
Pathik
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Pathik »

A fallen empire using its last iota of devious mechanisms :D they have lost their grip on the commonwealth already.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by kit »


pathetic .. how low the mighty has fallen ! ..
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Hari Seldon »

SHARIA UK: British politician Jayda Fransen ARRESTED for offending Islam, flown to Belfast

Site also has full video of the "offending" speech only.Ensoi.

P.S. Call it Schadenfreude or just desserts or whatever. Lest we forget, UKstan conspired to balkanize India in '47 leaving a patchy network of tiny states, a simmering communal cauldron and no-go sharia zones. Now seems like in their rush to cosy upto the likes of Mirpuris and Pakjabis and Bongladesis and Somalians, the same may well befall UQ only. Karma is a beach. Only. I'm not mourning UKstan's travails.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by ArjunPandit »

^^^any sharia compliant name for UK??
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

A recap of the situation as I've read it so far:
* 5 ICJ seats were up for re-election.
* 6 candidates: India, France, Somalia, Lebanon, Brazil and UK
* France, Somalia and Brazil nominees all won quick elections.
* The Lebanese won the fourth spot, leaving one seat and two candidates - India and UK
* The power structure of UN is such that in these cases, the UNSC member manages to easily have its way by gentle coercion.
* However, India refused to play ball, so here we have a has-been P5 member competing with a nation that does not respects its long past might.
* There have so far been 11 rounds of voting. 12th round due today.
* Voting has consistently been >50% of UNGA for India, >50% of UNSC for UK
* Supposedly all P5 members are supporting UK (which is expected, since they all want to retain the UNSC-member-goes-through privilege).
* Japan is allegedly supporting UK, though others state they are abstaining.
* Current UNSC vote breakdown is 9 for UK, 5 for India and one abstention.
* UNGA voting is 121 for India. If we get 128 votes there, we'll have 2/3rds majority, making any UNSC moves by UK much more harder to morally assert. India is pushing for more UNGA votes to assert this argument.
* All voting so far is secret. But a decision on joint conference by UNSC requires an open vote.
* The Joint Conference consists of 3 each from UNSC and UNGA. The procedures of this are unknown since it's never been done before by the UN.
* The last time a joint conference was done was by the League of Nations in 1921. The UN itself has never done it mainly because no one ever challenged a P5 member in a runoff before, stepping aside instead.
* The UNSC members are reluctant for a joint conference because voting for establishing a joint conference as UK wants, is NOT secret, so they would have to reveal their so far hidden cards.
* By UN statute, if one entity (UNGA or UNSC) demands a joint conference, the other has to agree
* However, not all UNSC candidates are in agreement on joint conference. Some want it if today's vote is deadlocked too. Others prefer voting to continue, because the UNSC has to vote openly to agree to joint conference.

So the bottom line is that India gets 1/192 of votes in GA for itself. The P-5 being a single special interest group here means UK gets 33% of UNSC vote almost guaranteed.

However, the UK candidate is unable to muster more than 40% of the UNGA vote. This is unlike the French candidate who managed to get the necessary >50% UNGA vote in addition to majority of UNSC votes.

UK has demonstrated that it essentially cannot muster enough votes in UNGA at all, and therefore is trying to beg and get its way in UNSC instead. In the process it's clearly established itself as the weakest UNSC member, since France easily managed what they could not.

By corollary, the fact that India is in this position is a reflection of the fact that unlike Brazil or Lebanon, we cannot automatically get a yes from UNSC , who want to keep us out of any substantial power positions.

It would be really nice if GoI announced an Indian exit from the Commonwealth, regardless of the result of this vote.

The most recent UNSC vote (Nov 13) appears to be (not confirmed since voting was secret:
India: Bolivia, Egypt, Senegal, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan
UK: All of P5 plus Japan, Sweden, Italy, Ukraine.
Abstention: Uruguay
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by ArjunPandit »

Suraj wrote: By corollary, the fact that India is in this position is a reflection of the fact that unlike Brazil or Lebanon, we cannot automatically get a yes from UNSC , who want to keep us out of any substantial power positions.

It would be really nice if GoI announced an Indian exit from the Commonwealth, regardless of the result of this vote.
My take on this is
1. Brazil: May have support from US/North Americas
2. Lebanon: Saudi & US support will be there
Both of them dont appear to upend the world order anytime in next 50 years, unlike India which is knocking the doors patiently and peacefully in its traditional dharmic way
Anyways India is no bunny and will not play the game of P5
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

Yes, it's obvious that the seats go in this manner by 'tradition':
a) If there's a UNSC member candidate, they go through. Opponent is supposed to step aside.
b) remaining seats go to the small UNGA members to be bought out when needed

The problem here is that India dared to directly challenge the weakest UNSC P5 member and repeatedly show that it can neither get enough UNGA votes (which France could), nor can it convince its UNSC chums to do its bidding immediately, because well, they'd all have to openly identify themselves as voting against India to do so.

Nothing dharmic in any of this. We need to make them look powerless again and again. UNSC power counts for nothing if you can't have your way, is our message . Our first order of business is getting UNGA vote up from 121 to 128+ . With 66% of UNGA supporting us, we can openly mock any attempt by UNSC to push for joint conference their way.

The UK is the weakest member, so openly target it . Let the other P5 talk among themselves "this fool is making us all look weak. Can't even get his way like we've all managed to do for 70 years now." Doesn't matter if we lose - we need to make them beg and claw and look openly desperate and weak. And meanwhile, leave the Commonwealth too.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Karan M »

One thing though, why leave the common wealth? Stay there and be a PITA while taking off UKs browbeating the other CW nations. In otherwords, be the same as PRC does by entering all the Asian pacts where its rivals exist. It molds them to its benefit.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Karan M »

But I may be missing how the rules are structured. Perhaps they are in such a way that UK is always top dawg.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by ArjunPandit »

Suraj wrote:
It would be really nice if GoI announced an Indian exit from the Commonwealth, regardless of the result of this vote.
1. Very nice summary, better than any report so far, Mind if i copy and pass it on WA
2. I think we should do a paki on commonwealth and torpedo any future moves of britain
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Shanmukh »

How come Somalia got elected so easily? Is there some kind of quota system in ICJ too, which makes India face off against the UK (maybe the Commonwealth seat)?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

Karan M wrote:One thing though, why leave the common wealth? Stay there and be a PITA while taking off UKs browbeating the other CW nations. In otherwords, be the same as PRC does by entering all the Asian pacts where its rivals exist. It molds them to its benefit.
Because it’s their cherished baby, and without us they lose most of its demography and economic size. We comprise 1.2billion of it’s 2.4 billion people (>50%) and $10 trillion of its $14 trillion GDP (~72%).

Part of making them irrelevant is making their organizations irrelevant, and what’s more important is being seen overtly as the one doing the most damage . We step away and who's the major developing world country with the power to stand up to the white countries who run the Commonwealth ? Nobody. The whole thing will fall apart with our departure.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

Shanmukh wrote:How come Somalia got elected so easily? Is there some kind of quota system in ICJ too, which makes India face off against the UK (maybe the Commonwealth seat)?
Somalia isn't a threat to anyone and is easily manipulated when needed. They can muster the UNGA solidarity votes, and UNSC sees them as pliable.

The problem is that the UK candidate could not get a majority of votes in UNGA at all. He's consistently polled ~60-70 votes out of 192 in all rounds so far. You can't browbeat the opponent into letting you have 'UNSC P5 privilege' in this, if you can't even win enough UNGA votes. That's how weak UK is today.

What's more, the UK candidate is not a new applicant. Both the Indian and UK candidates are sitting ICJ judges - the UK one since 2009, and the Indian one since 2012. they're both up for re-election - the former on the 9 year term, the latter on 6 year term. Why is the latter getting 'only' 6 years ? Well, there are multiple tenure track seats in ICJ - seats with 9 year terms, 6 year terms and 3 year terms.

This article encapsulates how the poobahs feel:
UNSC permanent members unnerved by prospect of India's nominee winning ICJ election: Observers
The permanent members of the UN Security Council are 'unnerved' by the prospect of India's nominee Dalveer Bhandari winning against Britain's candidate in the election to the last seat of the World Court as it would set a precedent that may challenge their power in the future, observers here feel.

Bhandari and Britain's Christopher Greenwood are locked in a neck-and-neck fight for re-election to the Hague-based International Court of Justice+ , the sources say.

The permanent members of the Security Council -- the US, Russia, France and China -- appeared to have rallied behind Greenwood. Britain is the fifth permanent member of the Security Council.

In the 11 rounds of election so far, Bhandari has been receiving support of nearly two-third of the members of the General Assembly, but is trailing by three votes against Greenwood in the Security Council.

The 12th round of elections has been scheduled for Monday.

Britain on Friday in an informal consultation of the UN Security Council members mooted the idea of joint conference mechanism as it feels that this could be their only face saving exit strategy, informed sources said.

However, the prospect of India winning against a P5 member through democratic means is something that this elite club of veto-wielding countries - Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States - are unnerved with, because this would set a precedent that they do not want to be repeated.

"Today it is Britain, tomorrow it could be any one of us" is the argument which has brought all these five countries together, sources say.

"If the one (of the P5) is going to be knocked off today, the other fear that they might be knocked off tomorrow," according to a source.


But by Sunday evening it appeared that Britain was ready to execute its plan, as per which after the first round of voting they would call for a meeting of the Security Council and would seek a mandate to stop any further round of voting, and would call for adoption of joint conference mechanism, which was last adopted in 1921.

However, this might come as a silver lining for India, sources said.

This is because the Security Council vote to stop further rounds of the ICJ election would be open and not through a secret ballot.

As a result, countries, many of whom have been pledging friendship with India but secretly voting against its candidate would be exposed in the open of raising their hands against India. This is something that members of the Security Council would avoid.

The voting in the General Assembly which overwhelmingly favours India is reflective of the new global order, which is not pleasant to the world powers.

Despite best of the British effort, their vote tally in the General Assembly has decreased with every other round of voting. :rotfl:
And here's the British view:
UK humiliated as international court election goes to runoff: International court of justice would be without British judge for first time since 1946 if Sir Christopher Greenwood loses
The UK’s candidate for the international court of justice (ICJ), Sir Christopher Greenwood, has been forced into a run-off election for the final remaining place on the court, in a humiliating blow to British diplomatic prestige at the United Nations.

There has always been a British judge on the court since it was established in 1946. It hears disputes over sovereignty and international borders from around the world. Losing a British presence on the court would be an international political embarrassment.

During voting in the general assembly on Thursday evening, support for Greenwood progressively seeped away. In the first round he secured the support of 147 countries; by the fifth round he was down to only 76 votes, fewer than half of the states in the assembly.
The British article exposes one more fact: if UK loses, it would be the first time that one of the P5 UNSC members did not have a seat in the ICJ. So far all P5 members have always continuously had a seat in the ICJ. Someone else was always supposed to step aside for the P5 member candidate due for re-election. This was the 'P5 privilege' in the ICJ. That's why the 'if UK today, it could be us tomorrow' heartburn.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Pathik »

Is there any benefit for India to stay in the commonwealth? The name of the organisation itself should be enough to detach from it. None of the majority population group of youngsters would want to be part of this colonial legacy. We can live without whatever 'elite' bhukha nanga privileges they bestow on us through it. After Doklam success India should muscle its way out of such situations with a clear tit-for-tat strategy.
Last edited by Pathik on 21 Nov 2017 03:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Peregrine »

Indian nominee Bhandari re-elected as ICJ judge after Britain withdraws

UNITED NATIONS: India's nominee to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) Dalveer Bhandari was today re-elected to the last seat of the world court after Britain withdrew its candidate from the election.

Bhandari received 183-193 votes in the General Assembly and secured all the 15 votes in the Security Council after separate and simultaneous elections were held at the UN headquarters in New York.

The elections were held after United Kingdom, in a dramatic turn of events, withdrew out of the race for the Hague-based ICJ, thus paving the way for Bhandari's re-election to the prestigious world court.

Bhandari and Britain's Christopher Greenwood were locked in a neck-and-neck fight for re-election to the ICJ.

The permanent members of the Security Council- the US, Russia, France and China -- were understood to have been throwing their weight behind Greenwood. Britain is the fifth permanent member of the Security Council.

In a dramatic turn of events, the British Permanent Representative to the UN, Matthew Rycroft, wrote identical letters to the presidents of the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council, before the two chambers were scheduled to meet at 3 pm (local time) for the 12th round of voting.

Read out simultaneously by both the presidents of the General Assembly and the Security Council, Rycroft said that its candidate Judge Christopher Greenwood had decided to withdraw from the election to the 15-membered ICJ. He along with Bhandari were seeking re-election for the nine-year term.

In the 11 rounds of voting, Bhandari had got nearly two-thirds of the votes in the General Assembly and in Security Council Greenwood consistently received nine votes as against five for his opponent. This resulted in a stalemate.

As per the letter read out simultaneously in the General Assembly and the Security Council, Rycroft said the current deadlock is unlikely to be broken by further rounds of voting.

As such he announced withdrawal from the race. With Bhandari being the only candidate left in the race, the General Assembly and Security Council still went through the formal motion of voting to complete the formalities.

The voting in the General Assembly which overwhelmingly favours India is reflective of the new global order, which is not pleasant to the world powers.

India has been seeking that the democratic process need to be played its full course in both the Security Council and the General Assembly and there should not be an intervention or adoption of a process that has never been used before or the one that undermines the voice of the majority.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Prem »

Brit withdrew the caaaaandidate !
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Pathik »

Prem wrote:Brit withdrew the caaaaandidate !
As a face saver presumably :D
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by ManishC »

Brexit :rotfl:
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

Pathik wrote:
Prem wrote:Brit withdrew the caaaaandidate !
As a face saver presumably :D
More like no UK face at all for the first time ever in the history of P5 & UN.

An excellent effort by GoI, MEA and our permanent representation at UN to get this done. Power is acquired by force.
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Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Peregrine »

Britain without a judge on the International Court of Justice for first time since 1946

Britain has withdrawn its candidate for a seat on the International Court of Justice amid a row about the UK’s position in the world – leaving Britain without a judge on the court for the first time since 1946.

Sir Christopher Greenwood QC had sat on the court for the past nine years, and was hoping to be re-elected.

But on Monday, amid continued threats from UN members to block his candidacy, Britain withdrew Sir Christopher from the race. It meant that India’s nominee, Dalveer Bhandari, will take up the seat instead.

“The UK has concluded that it is wrong to continue to take up the valuable time of the Security Council,” said Matthew Rycroft, the British ambassador to the UN.

Sir Christopher’s failure to win a seat marked the first time in UN history that the candidacy of a permanent member of the Security Council was challenged.

All five permanent members of the UN Security Council were believed to have rallied behind Sir Christopher, but he failed to secure a majority in both the General Assembly and the Security Council, after 12 rounds of voting.

Some diplomats attributed Britain's failure to rally support for its candidate to a loss of influence, following the decision to vote to leave the European Union.

The vote represents a significant failure for British diplomacy.

The UK had fought hard to secure Sir Christopher’s approval, reportedly urging the Security Council to resort to the Joint Conference Mechanism which was last used 96 years ago, leading Indian sources to accuse the UK of “dirty politics”.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

In his prepared comments, Matthew Rycroft, the British Ambassador to the UN said "If the UK could not win in this run-off, then we are pleased that it is a close friend like India that has done so instead. We will continue to cooperate closely with India, here in the United Nations and globally." :twisted:
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by krishna_krishna »

Brexit, Awesome work by Syed Akbaruddin and Sushma Swaraj
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Vips »

UK on Justice Dalveer Bhandari’s re-election to ICJ: Pleased to see ‘close friend’ India win.

Britain has congratulated Justice Dalveer Bhandari on being re-elected to the International Court of Justice and said it will continue to cooperate closely with India at the United Nations and globally. Bhandari was today re-elected to the last seat of the Hague-based ICJ after Britain withdrew its candidate from the election. India’s nominee Bhandari received 183-193 votes in the General Assembly and secured all the 15 votes in the Security Council after separate and simultaneous elections were held at the UN headquarters in New York. Britain’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations Matthew Rycroft, in a statement said it decided to withdraw Sir Chris Greenwood as a candidate for re-election as a Judge of the International Court of Justice.

“The UK has concluded that it is wrong to continue to take up the valuable time of the Security Council and the UN General Assembly with further rounds of elections,” he said. Britain, he said, congratulates the successful candidates, including Judge Bhandari of India. Earlier, it appeared that there was a neck-and-neck contest between Bhandari and Greenwood. “We are naturally disappointed, but it was a competitive field with six strong candidates,” Rycroft said.

“If the UK could not win in this run-off, then we are pleased that it is a close friend like India that has done so instead. We will continue to cooperate closely with India, here in the United Nations and globally,” he said. Rycroft said that the UK will continue to support the work of the ICJ, “in line with our commitment to the importance of the rule of law in the UN system and in the international community more generally”. Britain’s withdrawal from the election to the prestigious world court would mean that there will not be a British judge on the UN’s most powerful court for the first time in its history.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by periaswamy »

UK has saved the H&D of the UNSC by "taking one for the team", but this action continues to lend legitimacy to a decrepit UNSC that needs to be torn down and rooted out and its veto powers removed. I am afraid it just looks like a tactical victory for India.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

periaswamy wrote:UK has saved the H&D of the UNSC by "taking one for the team", but this action continues to lend legitimacy to a decrepit UNSC that needs to be torn down and rooted out and its veto powers removed. I am afraid it just looks like a tactical victory for India.
How has H&D been saved ? Quite the opposite - their privilege has now been eroded. Next it might be France who can't get enough UNGA votes. Or PRC. Since 1946, each member of the P5 has always managed to coerce the process to ensure their judge is on the ICJ panel. This is the first time they failed, and the same template can be used again.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by SSridhar »

The UK is trying to save H&D by saying 'a close friend India' is there in ICJ. This is clear loss of face for Britain, undoubtedly, as it tried devious methods until the last minute to stave off defeat. Only when it was cornered, it chose to make a virtue out of necessity and opt out hoping to retain a modicum of grace. It should now be coaxed by the US to leave UNSC paving the way for 'close friend India'.

While the other members of P5 might have wanted to rally around one of their own fearing a similar fate for them in the future, the UK is eminently aware of its own unsustainable and precarious position in the UNSC. That was why it fought till the last moment but without realizing that in the very process it was more and more confirming its own untenable UNSC seat.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by periaswamy »

Suraj: How has H&D been saved ? Quite the opposite - their privilege has now been eroded.
I just meant that If the matter had been pushed to its logical conclusion, then the UNSC's weakness would have been demonstrated, specifically that the UNSC's members enjoy a privilege well beyond their worth in an allegedly "democratic" setup of nations. So, I think that the UK, by capitulating with a face saver, has ensured that the actual vote that would have shown up the UNSC's weakness to everyone was avoided. This matter of the UNSC's privilege being challenged substantively have been moved to a future date. UNSC's privilege is protected as long as the 5 members stick together to deny extension of their privilege to the rest of the UNGA --- the rules already seem to be set in stone on that front.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Suraj »

periaswamy wrote:I just meant that If the matter had been pushed to its logical conclusion, then the UNSC's weakness would have been demonstrated
How has that NOT been demonstrated here ?
* Since 1946 until today, every P5 member was entitled to a seat at the ICJ. 5 of 15 judges were the P5, always. Until now.
* the P5, despite repeatedly voting to protect their own, still failed to defeat someone depending entirely on the UNGA .
* the UK could not muster a majority in the UNGA in a dozen attempts.

It has always been their privilege that any challenger to an ICJ seat one of the 5 needed, would step aside. Until today. Considering their privilege has been demonstrably removed, what more is there to show ?

It has always been the case that 5 UNSC votes are greater than all of the UNGA. Until now. India just showed that it can harness 'the mob' in the UNGA to take down a UNSC P5 challenger to a position that has been a P5 'right' .
SSridhar wrote:The UK is trying to save H&D by saying 'a close friend India' is there in ICJ.
Someone who was kicked in the teeth singing hosannas about the guy whose boot kicked their teeth out.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by periaswamy »

Suraj: It has always been their privilege that any challenger to an ICJ seat one of the 5 needed, would step aside. Until today. Considering their privilege has been demonstrably removed, what more is there to show ?
But that is just one of the many privileges of the UNSC, no? The other, more useful privilege, that the UNSC possesses is the veto power to nix anything that goes against their interests. (It is this privilege china uses to protect Jaish-e-mohammed and masood azhar). That privilege still remains intact, even if their ICJ privilege has been challenged successfully. I guess you mean that this sets a precedent for challenging other privileges down the line? I do not know enough about the conditions under which veto power can be challenged.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Post by Kashi »

The veto privilege would have remained regardless. What has happened is that the halo around the veto has been dimmed to a great extent. Undoubtedly, the P5 will continue to wield unbridled power for the foreseeable future, but they'll also encourage non-permanent members to come together more and more frequently and calls for limiting the scope of the veto.

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