Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

[Lisa]

in the UK libel laws do not apply to any government or government body, so regretfully no such an action can be sustained.

[ArjunPandit]

meanwhile, saw an ad on a bus today with the headline
"Gwadar, Asia's Emerging Business Capital". CPIC. What will happen to Tokyo, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Taipei or even our poor Mumbai. BTW economy of maha would be more than porkis

seems like Chinese & Pakis are desperate to get idiots to invest in it.

[ArjunPandit]

abra ka dabra

sir is there any separate thread on british raj and its effects on India? I couldnt find any separate thread on it.

[la.khan]

in the UK libel laws do not apply to any government or government body, so regretfully no such an action can be sustained.

Ok, so how about the Foreign Press Association for giving a platform for maligning the mandate of GE2014? Baseless allegations against ECI & EVMs? The media cannot make accusations against an elected government without evidence, unless they want libel on their hands.

[chetak]

meanwhile, saw an ad on a bus today with the headline
"Gwadar, Asia's Emerging Business Capital". CPIC. What will happen to Tokyo, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Taipei or even our poor Mumbai. BTW economy of maha would be more than porkis

seems like Chinese & Pakis are desperate to get idiots to invest in it.

haven't the saudis already come to gwadar with an investment of $ 10 billion for a refinery??

wait for the shifty iranians to shaft us in chabahar, and make no mistake, it is merely a question of when and not if.

the hans will make chabahar and gwadar twin ports for better flexibility.

[Kashi]

Off topic, but if Saudis do end up in Gwadar, wouldn't Iranis try and do everything in their power to make sure that Chabahar doesn't fall behind to try and one up the Saudis? That should quite rule out the sister-port nonsense being touted about.

[chetak]

Off topic, but if Saudis do end up in Gwadar, wouldn't Iranis try and do everything in their power to make sure that Chabahar doesn't fall behind to try and one up the Saudis? That should quite rule out the sister-port nonsense being touted about.

India is the only bakra for chabahar, so far.

the hans are keen to undercut us there

[Kashi]

the hans are keen to undercut us there

Hans co-opting Saudis in Gwadar and then offering Iran to take up Chabahar, yes that should go well with the Iranis.

They do that and they would be basically handing over their testimonials to Han on a platter. All the Han has to do is to drop "subtle hints" about expanding the "co-operation" with the Saud in Gwadar and Iran will be left with little option but to GUBO even further and seethe in impotent rage by the side.

This is not to say that they will not try and shaft us at the first opportunity.

Anyway, we should take this to the Indo-Iran or the Geopolitical thread.

[chetak]

the hans are keen to undercut us there

Hans co-opting Saudis in Gwadar and then offering Iran to take up Chabahar, yes that should go well with the Iranis.

They do that and they would be basically handing over their testimonials to Han on a platter. All the Han has to do is to drop "subtle hints" about expanding the "co-operation" with the Saud in Gwadar and Iran will be left with little option but to GUBO even further and seethe in impotent rage by the side.

This is not to say that they will not try and shaft us at the first opportunity.

Anyway, we should take this to the Indo-Iran or the Geopolitical thread.

the iranis have already made proposals to both the paki and the hans to link the two ports via a rail + road link.

iran is greedy.

[Lisa]

in the UK libel laws do not apply to any government or government body, so regretfully no such an action can be sustained.

Ok, so how about the Foreign Press Association for giving a platform for maligning the mandate of GE2014? Baseless allegations against ECI & EVMs? The media cannot make accusations against an elected government without evidence, unless they want libel on their hands.

Sir, I cannot change the law.

[Lalmohan]

Saudis don't need Gwadar do the? it will compete with their oil flows no?

[chetak]

Saudis don't need Gwadar do the? it will compete with their oil flows no?

it is a refinery that the saudis are building.

they are very interested in building another one in India too.

they are diversifying and adding value to their exports.

[chetak]

This is interesting.

With brexit looming large and future prospects rather dim, the erstwhile empire is pulling out all stops to woo India.

too little, too late??


twitter

Request everyone to watch this 1 minute video without miss.
This is an amazing forward from Trafalgar square, London during the celebration of 72nd India’s Independence Day.Jai Hind


https://twitter.com/n_shekar/status/1089519060616794114

[Singha]

prince salman is about to unevil a $450b 10 year spending pkg to upgrade the kingdoms physical and social infra outside of the oil economy.

[Neshant]

prince salman is about to unevil a $450b 10 year spending pkg to upgrade the kingdoms physical and social infra outside of the oil economy.

Remains to be seen what the return on that investment will be.

[Neshant]

This is interesting.

With brexit looming large and future prospects rather dim, the erstwhile empire is pulling out all stops to woo India.

too little, too late??

I noticed that one of the first things that happened post brexit vote was the British PM visited India.

Almost immediately thereafter, Germany's PM visited India - as if to prevent UK from gaining any foreign ally based bargaining power during Brexit negotiations.

Both sides are trying to undermine each other.

For India, a stable world order is uni centrism. That is to say the world with one superpower (US) keeping the order.
If relations in Europe begin to fracture, the world will start to evolve into multi polar alliances.
China will benefit from this split and Russia for sure. But not India.

[Kashi]

Request everyone to watch this 1 minute video without miss.
This is an amazing forward from Trafalgar square, London during the celebration of 72nd India’s Independence Day.Jai Hind
https://twitter.com/n_shekar/status/1089519060616794114

Is that even Trafalgar square? Some of the comments say it was the Italian national day celebrations.

[Singha]

>> For India, a stable world order is uni centrism. That is to say the world with one superpower (US) keeping the order.

how is that good for india long term? it anyway wont last due to rising civil unrest in usa that will redefine their role in the world.

a fracturing of the western cabal and good bilateral defence and economic relations with the stronger elements (italy, france, germany, uk) is best for india to rise to our "plans" of No1 mid century.

there is no long term benefit to india of letting anyone but india rule the roost in the international "system" in perpetuity. we need to let the system collapse and remake it for our own uses.

[Lisa]

Is that even Trafalgar square? Some of the comments say it was the Italian national day celebrations.

Its not Trafalgar square, its Rome!

[ArjunPandit]

^^Indian flag was burnt by khalistanis outside indian high commission in London

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-43833903

Look at the article. Heading to mollify the indians and contents to appease their core constituency

[ArjunPandit]

For India, a stable world order is uni centrism. That is to say the world with one superpower (US) keeping the order.
If relations in Europe begin to fracture, the world will start to evolve into multi polar alliances.
China will benefit from this split and Russia for sure. But not India.

Neeshant, given free India's history, your statement is correct. But in the new order, it does offer an opportunity for India to increase its standing in world. We used to be a global voice till Mao pulled the rug under Nehru-G's feet. For so many decades we have been punching below our weight. It depends upon which direction the govt after 2019 takes.

[Singha]

Back in the day a sufficient mass of americans saw it fot to fight ww2 at risk own life to defeat nazism
Anzacs fought for the UK most volunteered i think

Countries become powerful when people are willing to make some hard choices for long term benefit of their society. Syria survived because people stuck together and fought back violently

Today are even the millions of indians economic migrants to other parts of country willing to go home and vote and lose few days income? Will middle class see beyond their bank balance? Will they go beyond empty talk?

Ge2019 will tell if gslv liftoff or monkeys crap all over and uproot the launchpad of 2014-2018

Many false dawns have occurred like 1999-2004

Asuric forces will always be around. Darkness always shadows the light

Its the people and their attitudes which give openings to the asuric shakti

[pankajs]

For India, a stable world order is uni centrism. That is to say the world with one superpower (US) keeping the order.
If relations in Europe begin to fracture, the world will start to evolve into multi polar alliances.
China will benefit from this split and Russia for sure. But not India.

Neeshant, given free India's history, your statement is correct. But in the new order, it does offer an opportunity for India to increase its standing in world. We used to be a global voice till Mao pulled the rug under Nehru-G's feet. For so many decades we have been punching below our weight. It depends upon which direction the govt after 2019 takes.

India will be one of the most important poles in a future multi-ploar world BUT that scenario will take about 20-30 years to play out. Till then, for India it is convenient that China and the US balance each other out. I have written about this before in the China thread many times.

Why do I say that? Because it is inevitable based on basic metric and basic logic. The basic metric is population and the basic logic is in the long run all major countries will converge on per capita income. It is almost a garuntee that by 2100 India will THE strongest pole in a multipolar world .. stronger than Xina and stronger than the US of A.

BUT the world will start feeling the impact of India's trajectory much before that .. say by 2040-2060 when India will start closing the gap with China in Absolute GDP. From this absolute GDP level will flow all of Indian influence.
1. Economic
2. Political
3. Military

and for beepul thinking of a future reserve currency world ... INR will become one amongst the world reserve currencies at par with the USD and RMB. You don't need a economist or IMF/WB to tell you that. It flows most logically from the previous logic and you heard it first here. RMB, for all its present hype, will hardly get a chance of being the soul preserve curry of the world all alone.

It is not a question of IF but WHEN. A decade or two earlier or later. Logical only and Simple wonree ..... Here is some one who recently had the same tube-light moment and expressed it publicly and ofcource his qualifications make his uvach much more credible than an anonymous posters calculations.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 644627.cms
India to become bigger than China eventually: Raghuram Rajan

DAVOS: India will eventually surpass China in economic size and will be in a better position to create the infrastructure being promised by the Chinese side in South Asian countries, former RBI governor Raghuram Rajan said on Tuesday.

Saw this a week back and wondered why no one else picked this up but here it is.

[chetak]

India becoming a huge and rich market will once again invite east India companies like flies to honey.

We need to back it up by commensurate military muscle and the demonstrated willingness to defend our supreme national interests against all comers.

some of our internal entities have been suborned by offshore deep states and our military is being hobbled like it was hobbled when crucial artillery was wilfully and artfully denied to the IA using the "freedoms" granted by the constitution to undercut that very freedom.

the corrupted concept of "civilian control" is being carried too far and it will blow up, right in our face, soon enough. It already did once before with disastrous results that is still affecting our foreign policy and the resulting damage has limited us as a nation. Yet we persist with the same idiotic policies run by the administrative descendants of the egoistic pygmies who messed up earlier.

the example of how "secularism" has been/is being misused to surreptitiously undermine democracy is an example of how evil has been staring us in the face and we have failed to recognise it.

Having said that, I have a very strong feeling that both the UK and the EU are looking at a significant slow down in their economies and things will get much worse before they start to get better.

India should be wary of getting sucked into this morass and avoid any significant agreements/FTAs before the direction of the headwinds are clearly visible and the anxieties of the separation actually start to cool.

there is much more to brexit, both in the EU and in the UK than is currently being discussed. The amerikis are significant players here.

The reasons for brexit like migration, job loss, loss of sovereignty etc is just so much smoke and mirrors. All these could have been addressed, given time and more importantly the will on all sides.

Amputation without anesthesia is in no one's interest unless there are much larger issues and interests at play.

@Neshant

I noticed that one of the first things that happened post brexit vote was the British PM visited India.

Almost immediately thereafter, Germany's PM visited India - as if to prevent UK from gaining any foreign ally based bargaining power during Brexit negotiations.

Both sides are trying to undermine each other.

[chanakyaa]

India becoming a huge and rich market will once again invite east India companies like flies to honey.

Chetak saar, you did not mean to get into the historical aspects of the East India Co., but it is an interesting topic for me, so here is something on a philosophical note. Did East India Co really die or did it change its ownership by crossing the Atlantic? East India Co. never really died. It is very much in existence today, more powerful than ever before. It may not exist by its original name but today they are Aye-mazon, Phase-book, Enn-tel, Mycro-soft, Ro11s-Royce etc. etc. Modern day East India companies have become much more efficient by eliminating negatives associated with its predecessor. Collecting revenue from thousands of miles away, earning higher percentage savings of human effort using clever currency differential. Today interest on debt is collected before taxes. During the freedom struggle, it was much easier to burn English made expensive imported clothes and replacing the local one. Achieving independence of similar magnitude is much difficult today (things like software, microprocessors come to mind).

[Singha]

the EIC cohort also took over the UK govt and today runs its financial engine.
by controlling the flow of capital and loans to needy corporations and countries, these centers exercise influence. one rider to all such deals is the need for "london arbitration" and "british courts" for any dispute. this positions the british as a "free n fair" legal system above and beyond all others and brings in lot of money for legal firms too for M&A and dispute work.

nowhere else in the world except NYC would you find such high concentration of people dealing with money, law, shadow banking, investment, tax haven planning, luxury realty, high end prostitution, top quality white powder, divorces, pre nups ....all the basic needs of the ultra rich

[yensoy]

...But in the new order, it does offer an opportunity for India to increase its standing in world. We used to be a global voice till Mao pulled the rug under Nehru-G's feet. For so many decades we have been punching below our weight. It depends upon which direction the govt after 2019 takes.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We are not even doing FONOP in SCS, or ground troops in Afghanistan or Iraq. We can go on saying that these are not in our strategic interest, and that may well be the case. But the fact is that we are beneficiaries of Unkil doing the dirty jobs, so undermining Unkil is not a good idea... yet. That day may come when we need to take a harder look, yet historically we have maintained strategic independence based on our interests - 1971 Enterprise, cold war/USSR and more recently Iran oil and S400.

Lie low and bide your time, as Mr Deng used to say. No need to disrupt the status quo with the US being sole superpower with strained relationships with China and Pakistan.

[Karthik S]

But the fact is that we are beneficiaries of Unkil doing the dirty jobs, so undermining Unkil is not a good idea...

Could you elaborate on this please. I tried to think but didn't get any reasons as to why we are beneficiaries of unkil.

[yensoy]

But the fact is that we are beneficiaries of Unkil doing the dirty jobs, so undermining Unkil is not a good idea...

Could you elaborate on this please. I tried to think but didn't get any reasons as to why we are beneficiaries of unkil.

Today Unkil is keeping China on its toes. We have an emerging Quad as a means of countering China. We don't need to be in the white boys club (5 eyes) but we have a decent data sharing agreement. As for Pakistan, Unkil is undoing all the harm done in the past by cutting aid and doing some hard talk, which is very much in our interest. The big impending threat to our neighbourhood is state capture by BRI engineered indebtedness, and this cannot be fought by us alone - needs the deep pockets and hard message from other parties including the IMF/WB.

[Karthik S]

Could you elaborate on this please. I tried to think but didn't get any reasons as to why we are beneficiaries of unkil.

Today Unkil is keeping China on its toes.

That's trade war going on between them. BTW Our govt is yet to do something on huge trade deficit we have with cheen. How are we beneficiary of trade war between cheen and khan? If govt changes next year in khan, we might again see P2 world.

As for Pakistan, Unkil is undoing all the harm done in the past by cutting aid

pakis recently got billion dollar loan from ME. Who do you think approved that? Or if khan wanted to stop, you think they wouldn't have stopped ?

and doing some hard talk and doing some hard talk, which is very much in our interest.

[chetak]

India becoming a huge and rich market will once again invite east India companies like flies to honey.

Chetak saar, you did not mean to get into the historical aspects of the East India Co., but it is an interesting topic for me, so here is something on a philosophical note. Did East India Co really die or did it change its ownership by crossing the Atlantic? East India Co. never really died. It is very much in existence today, more powerful than ever before. It may not exist by its original name but today they are Aye-mazon, Phase-book, Enn-tel, Mycro-soft, Ro11s-Royce etc. etc. Modern day East India companies have become much more efficient by eliminating negatives associated with its predecessor. Collecting revenue from thousands of miles away, earning higher percentage savings of human effort using clever currency differential. Today interest on debt is collected before taxes. During the freedom struggle, it was much easier to burn English made expensive imported clothes and replacing the local one. Achieving independence of similar magnitude is much difficult today (things like software, microprocessors come to mind).

chanakyaa saar,

There are many viewpoints in the public domain emphasizing this very point. You too seem to be on the right track.

Pity, that it is generating very little traction as yet but the awareness seems to be growing by the day.

There seems to be some move to financially, at least, to restart the empire once again and am not really sure that it ever went away but like you said it has morphed into a new avatar and has risen again. With financials sewn up, the military arm in the velvet glove cannot be too far behind.

There are some writings suggesting that macron/france is into this mode of revival too.

the russian "empire" under putin has been casting eyes on ukraine to consolidate itself because of the massive resources there. With ukraine in the kitty, the old soviet union minus the flab will truly be a power to reckon with and putin is no less than any of the Tsars.

Brexit and the resulting chaos may be a god sent opportunity for putin to proceed without too much opposition

The amerikis have been at it since even before the end of WWII when they actively supplanted their closest ally and made sure that the sun set on them.

I feel that India was a prize whose taking was merely postponed by the amerikis, preoccupied as they were with the marshal plan in europe and consolidating their hold on japan. But now India as a prize is not so easily taken because its territorial integrity and cultural/political cohesiveness was not anticipated so they have opened multiple fronts like you said "Aye-mazon, Phase-book, Enn-tel, Mycro-soft, Ro11s-Royce etc. etc, the modern day East India companies that have calmed the natives and bedazzled the markets while they have quietly consolidated in the back ground.

[chetak]

Could you elaborate on this please. I tried to think but didn't get any reasons as to why we are beneficiaries of unkil.

Today Unkil is keeping China on its toes. We have an emerging Quad as a means of countering China. We don't need to be in the white boys club (5 eyes) but we have a decent data sharing agreement. As for Pakistan, Unkil is undoing all the harm done in the past by cutting aid and doing some hard talk, which is very much in our interest. The big impending threat to our neighbourhood is state capture by BRI engineered indebtedness, and this cannot be fought by us alone - needs the deep pockets and hard message from other parties including the IMF/WB.

Isn't it undoing all the undoing by offering the pakis a FTA, per newspaper reports??

[yensoy]

Isn't it undoing all the undoing by offering the pakis a FTA, per newspaper reports??

What do the Pakis have worth trading? They already have favourable textile quotas. Mangoes perhaps? How much will that help them?

Remember, some money has to be paid for overland access to Afghanistan. If that is in the form of an opportunity to export $50m worth of mangoes, all I can say is that Unkil is having the mango cake and eating it too.

[chetak]

Isn't it undoing all the undoing by offering the pakis a FTA, per newspaper reports??

What do the Pakis have worth trading? They already have favourable textile quotas. Mangoes perhaps? How much will that help them?

Remember, some money has to be paid for overland access to Afghanistan. If that is in the form of an opportunity to export $50m worth of mangoes, all I can say is that Unkil is having the mango cake and eating it too.

sirji,

do not make the classic mistake of underestimating the venal rapacity of the paki army.

They run this govt just like they did many others before.

The amerikis are paying for the prostitute services of the paki army and not those provided by imran khan niazi, which BTW comes as a free bonus, along with the prostitute services provided by the crorepati kammandu generals.

what have mangoes got to do with it??

Haven't these magnificent gems of nature already done yeoman service in pukiland??

[vera_k]

But the fact is that we are beneficiaries of Unkil doing the dirty jobs, so undermining Unkil is not a good idea...

Could you elaborate on this please. I tried to think but didn't get any reasons as to why we are beneficiaries of unkil.

Aside from what's said already, the Taliban have been kept busy in Afghanistan, and out of Kashmir.

[disha]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... VSoHP.html

In case of Brexit riots, HH QE will be evacuated. Most likely to Andamans. She will bring her royal treasury with her as well.

[Rahul M]

Victory for India: UK clears Vijay Mallya's extradition

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/67838605.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

not the end of the story as he can appeal.

[chetak]

Victory for India: UK clears Vijay Mallya's extradition

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/67838605.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

not the end of the story as he can appeal.

this will be resolved fairly quickly. In the UK, the higher courts don't usually poke their noses in the judgements of the lower courts unless there is some gross miscarriage of justice.

mallaya must really be perplexed as he doesn't know whom to pay off.

With an empty brexit looming large and a hostile EU determined to show the erstwhile no sunset empire its well deserved place in the list of inconsequential entities, the britshits will not be taking chances with India and one suspects that the savvy brit judiciary will rise to the occasion, especially when "England expects that every man will do his duty", as horatio nelson once said.

[jaysimha]

Victory for India: UK clears Vijay Mallya's extradition

not the end of the story as he can appeal.

As you have mentioned, "Mallya now has a 14-day window to appeal to a higher court."
This way, he will be sucked dry by brits. He must have realized by now that he is a prisoner there and he has to pay ransom now and then .
All this court drama are method to blackmail/bleed him.
.
while we will be happy with "bubble gum" we get from this kind of news.

[Singha]

>> the britshits will not be taking chances with India and one suspects that the savvy brit judiciary will rise to the occasion, especially when "England expects that every man will do his duty", as horatio nelson once said.

I have that feeling too. his bluster and faith in english justice looks thin now..the first beginnings of fear...
his appeal will swiftly be disposed off rather than a date many months ahead and he can return to india, first class on Emirates if he wants. his new house is ready in mumbai. but mostly likely GOI will send people to bring him back in economy class, middle seat, with only a plate of rice and pindi chana washed down with cheap airline wine.