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Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

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Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2017 13:20

Seriously,why has the UK-India td. been locked? For one,India and the UK have more issues in common that Indo-EU.Don't forget that Britain has voted to leave the EU (Brexit) and thus should not be discussed in the EU td!

May trying desperately to cling on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... -news-line
Election results 2017 live: May has 'no intention of resigning' despite hung parliament
SNP’s Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond, and Lib Dems’ Nick Clegg out, but it’s a bad night for Theresa May as Tories fall short and Labour makes gains
Election results: seat-by-seat winners and losers
The Snap: what you need to know about the election results
Corbyn calls for May to resign after hung parliament confirmed


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ction-fury
Theresa May's leadership in the balance amid Tory election fury
Gamble on early election appears to have backfired, with hung parliament seen as ‘catastrophic’ for PM

Rowena Mason Deputy political editor
Friday 9 June 2017 02.33 BST First published on Friday 9 June 2017 01.07 BST
Theresa May’s position as Conservative leader is under pressure after her gamble on an early election backfired spectacularly.

Tory MPs were shocked and furious after the party lost much of its 20-point lead in the polls during the course of the campaign.

Live Election results 2017 live: May has 'no intention of resigning' despite hung parliament
SNP’s Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond, and Lib Dems’ Nick Clegg out, but it’s a bad night for Theresa May as Tories fall short and Labour makes gains

They pinned the blame not only on the badly received Conservative manifesto, but on the performance of May personally, after she made it a presidential-style contest by putting her “strong and stable” leadership at the centre.

Anger was also directed at May’s close circle of aides, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill, who ran a campaign excluding senior cabinet ministers and oversaw the writing of the manifesto.

At her count in Maidenhead, May suggested the Conservatives would try to hang on as a minority government if they won the most seats but any failure to match David Cameron’s 330 seats in 2015 could be fatal for her leadership.

The former chancellor George Osborne, who was sacked by May last year, was one of the first senior party figures to react to the result, saying if the exit poll were correct it would be “catastrophic” for the Tories and the prime minister personally.

He described the Conservative manifesto as “one of the worst manifestos in history” and expressed disappointment that the party was perceived as turning away from metropolitan liberal voters.

“It’s difficult to see, if these numbers are right, how they would put together the coalition to remain in office,” he said on ITV. “But equally, it’s quite difficult to see how Labour could put together a coalition. It’s on a real knife edge.”

He said there would be a “huge postmortem” about a manifesto drawn up by a very small circle of people in Downing Street and the overall style of the election campaign.

Osborne suggested that Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, would have “a little smile on his face right now” given the boost to his chances of taking over as Tory leader.

Sir Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s former director of communications at Downing Street, came to a similar verdict on Sky News.

“If this is true, if this is accurate, in CCHQ there will be deep and lasting shock,” he said. “It was the biggest gamble a politician has taken for a long time and if that exit poll is right, it’s failed.”

On the basis of the first few results, the seats of some Conservative big hitters were under threat, including the home secretary, Amber Rudd, in Hastings and Rye, and Anna Soubry, a prominent pro-EU former minister, in Broxtowe. Jane Ellison, the financial secretary to the Treasury, was the first Tory minister to lose her seat, in Battersea, a strongly remain voting area, while Ben Gummer, the architect of the manifesto, lost in Ipswich.

Labour went on to take back surprise marginals in the south of England, Bedford, Bristol North West and Canterbury, which has been Tory for the last century. Meanwhile, the Conservatives had gained only one seat in England so far, Walsall South, in the Midlands.

Jeremy Corbyn calls for May to resign after hung parliament confirmed
Read more
In an ominous sign for May, Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, would not guarantee that the prime minister would not have to resign. “It’s very early in the evening and we’ll have to wait and see,” he said.

The only pocket of hope for the Conservatives was Scotland, where the wing of the party led by Ruth Davidson ousted Angus Robertson, the SNP Westminster leader, in Moray and took another seat in Angus. Some Tories attributed this to Davidson’s more liberal outlook and cheery demeanour in contrast to May’s social conservatism and a campaign in which she was accused of being a “gloombucket” by the Daily Mail’s sketchwriter.

On Thursday night, senior Conservatives were already discussing potential replacements, with reports that Johnson was tapping up MPs about his prospects. Betting companies immediately began running odds on potential candidates to replace the Conservative leader, with Johnson in the lead, followed by Philip Hammond, May’s chancellor.

The foreign secretary, who was sidelined for much of the Tory campaign until the end, repeatedly dodged questions about whether he would like to lead the party and called on people to “contain themselves” until they had seen the final result. At his victory speech in Uxbridge and South Ruislip, he hinted that the Conservatives had been out of touch, saying they had to “listen to our constituents and listen to their concerns”.

One Conservative MP who held his safe seat said May would be “toast” if she had not managed to at least match Cameron’s result, with the possibility of a new leader installed if they were to attempt to run a minority government.

The defence secretary, Michael Fallon, was sent to Conservative headquarters to calm his party’s nerves, saying on television: “This is a projection, it’s not a result. These exit polls have been wrong in the past.” David Gauke, a loyalist Tory minister, insisted May’s job was not in question. “As things stand at the moment I think she is the right person for the job,” he said.

However, there were very few Tories on the airwaves and silence from party spin doctors as a number of strong holds and a few gains for Labour started coming through.

If May manages to get a majority, her leadership would still be weakened, as the Conservatives had been hoping for a lead in seats of up to 100.
The Maybot asked us to strengthen her hand over Brexit – we declined
John Crace

The prime minister toured many Labour-held target constituencies with the aim of winning over the opposition’s pro-Brexit heartlands. But her proposed shake-up of social care, which meant people would have to pay for care in their homes out of the value of their property, went down extremely badly with voters, along with a proposal to abandon the triple lock on pensions and withdraw winter fuel payments from the wealthy.

In the campaign postmortem, Tory MPs will demand to know how a manifesto was published with a raft of unpopular policies and lack of sweeteners to appeal to the electorate.

Above all, the decision to put May front and centre will be challenged, given her wooden media performances and refusal to debate head to head with the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

Sensing her weakness, Labour and the Liberal Democrats are expected to go after the prime minister hard. A Labour source said: “If this exit poll is correct, Theresa May’s credibility is completely shot. As May said herself, if she lost just six seats in this election she would not be prime minister.”

Play Video 1:00
It is time for Theresa May to go, says Jeremy Corbyn – video
Emily Thornberry, the shadow foreign secretary, said May “should go, because I think she has manifestly failed”, while deputy leader Tom Watson said May was a “damaged politician whose reputation may never recover”.

The Snap: sign up for the Guardian's election briefing
Ukip was unhappy with May for a different reason, saying the prime minister had “put Brexit in jeopardy”.

The situation is complicated by the fact that Brexit negotiations are due to start in 11 days. Ken Clarke, the former Tory chancellor and pro-EU MP, said a hung parliament would be very difficult for the progress of the talks.

“The worst outcome for the United Kingdom would be a weak government and a hung parliament of any party and we just have to see where we get,” he said.

“If we continue with another parliament with a small majority then firstly we will have to have some deeper debates ... particularly on Brexit, and, actually, as we face some appalling difficulties in my opinion, this is a critical stage for us. Politics is changing.”
Last edited by ramana on 09 Jun 2017 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title to standard format. ramana

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2017 13:27

"Mayhem" in Britain is the word in the media in the UK today!
Thanks to the May-Hen! :rotfl:

http://www.independent.co.uk/
XCpts:
Theresa May, the Icarus of the Home Counties, cannot hope to save herself with yet more sloganeering
Even if Corbyn must wait for a second crack at kissing the Queen’s begloved hand, what he achieved yesterday trumped Trump himself on the belief-beggaring front

Matthew Norman

On a night ridiculously stuffed with unforgettable vignettes, a personal favourite was a report that Rupert Murdoch stormed out of an election party at his London HQ the moment that exit poll flashed on screen. The national defiance of the old monster’s instructions was one among many delicious novelties on a night when much beyond Brexit changed.

Brexit apart, the most dramatic change will be the sharp leftward repositioning of the political centre ground. The criminally negligent underfunding of social and medical care and education will end, or at least be greatly mitigated. The assumption that the poor, deprived and disenfranchised may be safely ignored by those to whom “austerity” is a sanitary euphemism for “who cares?” is dead.

And one of the oldest riddles in democratic politics has been solved: you can get young people off their ars*s and down to the polling station if you take the trouble to enthuse them with the realistic hope of a brighter future for themselves and a fairer society for us all.


https://www.indy100.com/article/electio ... ay-7780391
Everyone's talking about how happy George Osborne looks right now
Posted about 8 hours ago by Joe Vesey-Byrne in discover

The exit poll by Ipsos Mori for BBC, ITV and Sky News predicts a hung a parliament, with the Tories as the largest party.

If the poll is correct, Theresa May's Conservatives will not have bested the result won by David Cameron two years ago.

The former chancellor and the Tory election chief in 2015 George Osborne first remarked on ITV this morning:

If the poll is anything like accurate, this is complete catastrophic for the Conservatives and for Theresa May.

He later added:

The worst manifesto by a ruling British party in history.

He said the Conservative manifesto was "written by about three people".

It seems there is little love lost between Osborne and May.

First he was sacked as Chancellor by May when she became leader.

He then took the helm of the Evening Standard.

May called an election, effectively forcing Osborne to give up his Tatton constituency.

Then Osborne ran editorials heavily criticising May's campaign, particularly her U-turn on social care funding.

Appearing on ITV's election coverage, Osborne's face when he received the results was a brilliant display of cheeky control.

Oh George.


Moral of the election.:
Little Britain getting "littler" by the day!
With an unstable,weak govt.in London,the bureaucrats of Brussels will be sharpening their knives and forks when it comes to Brexit negotiations.
Britain will get only a tiny morsel on its plate from the EU banquet!

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 13:41

Youth voted in vengeance against Brexit what appears to be ... besides UK has strong socialist history. Now expect Brexit to be dead.
Nigel Farage party has given an Anda like Mayawati .. they exist on twitter mostly now!
Labour sees nearly 10% vote surge. Yet to be fully understood why people punished conservative though

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Kashi » 09 Jun 2017 13:45

IndraD wrote:Youth voted in vengeance against Brexit what appears to be ... besides UK has strong socialist history. Now expect Brexit to be dead.


Brexit has already happened hasn't it? How is it dead?

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby vinod » 09 Jun 2017 14:16

you get these moments as well .. Corbyn high-five: :rotfl:

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2017 14:18

Simple answer.The heart of Britain,the shires,are in eco crisis.Former famous manufacturing cities and towns which had world famous cos., are the equiv. of the US rust belt. For 3 decades now I've seen the steady decline of Britain,where the middle class and working classes have been going downhill,while those in the service sector,esp. bankers,stockbrokers,etc., have made massive fortunes. There's a huge housing shortage,prices skyrocketing which only the well-heeled can afford,rail services rotten in comparison with other EU states,A friend of mine invested in a house in a decent suburb,close to a tube stn. When he put out the ad.,he had 20+ people all racing to lease it within hours!

This is what spurred the Brexit vote,what brought Trump to victory in the US and which has seen the resurgence of Labour. The Labour manifesto of free univ. ed for the youth and nationalising of rail and essential services,went down well. I pointed out earlier that Britain's rail networks are run by EU entities,which use their huge profits to better rail services in their countries! As quoted "austerity" meaning 'who the f*ck cares",has been rejected by a massive % of the British population who've not benefited from the Conservatives' arch-capitalist agenda.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby vinod » 09 Jun 2017 14:52

I think the immediate concerns which caused May to lose were 2 things mainly:
1. Care for elderly : Many pensioners were dismayed at her plans and they stayed away from voting
2. The Young: The university education fees and Labours manifesto made it easy for them to vote labour.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 15:24

Kashi wrote:
IndraD wrote:Youth voted in vengeance against Brexit what appears to be ... besides UK has strong socialist history. Now expect Brexit to be dead.


Brexit has already happened hasn't it? How is it dead?

actually it has just begun ..now there is a possibility it may not pull through due to various reasons:
?possibility of another election
?dead line not met
?No clarity on what people want? Nigel Farage said himself UK should be ready for another Brexit referendum.
chances are good this time Brexit ref will be defeated.

http://news.sky.com/story/hung-parliame ... e-10909139

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 16:07

Image
The UK elected its first Sikh female MP and its first turbaned Sikh MP for the UK Parliament-


The first female Sikh MP and the first turbaned Sikh MP have been elected to parliament.

Both Labour, Preet Kaur Gill, 44, will represent Birmingham Edgbaston and Tan Dhesi will represent Slough.

The results have been celebrated as ‘historic’ in an election where Labour did much better than many had expected.

It was heralded as ‘victory for Sikh representation in the UK parliament’.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Kashi » 09 Jun 2017 16:54

Cameron had 331 seats, May has 318

Labour in 2015 had 232 now they have 261

How does this imply a major May defeat and a significant Labour surge?? :?:

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Singha » 09 Jun 2017 17:05

Hope these pio mp dont turn out like niki haley...

Just being a pio a hindu or sikh means nothing these days

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby shiv » 09 Jun 2017 17:14

Pardon the stupid question but what happened in the election?

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Jun 2017 17:16

AoA! Are these Khalistanis? HOPE not? Already have enough trouble with Lawd Abdul etc.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby vinod » 09 Jun 2017 17:38

Kashi wrote:Cameron had 331 seats, May has 318

Labour in 2015 had 232 now they have 261

How does this imply a major May defeat and a significant Labour surge?? :?:


Because of the expectations attached to this election when it was called. Labour was in chaos and Conservative was expected to just walk over them with very high majority. But instead, now they are in a situation where they had majority, its turned to a coalition - a May's own making for her own reasons! She was projecting herself as the new Thatcher!! :rotfl:

Moreover, Labour is energized, Corbyn strengthened! Conservative has lost the Kensington to Labour (though 3rd recount is expected in the evening). It is like congress losing Amethi seat to BJP.

So, in one word - it massive ****up by conservatives!

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby jayasimha » 09 Jun 2017 17:45

IndraD wrote:The UK elected its first Sikh female MP and its first turbaned Sikh MP for the UK Parliament-


My ex-boss use to refer to them as co-conut

brown outside but white inside :D

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2017 19:04

"Little Britain" and Mrs.May just got "littler" what?! The Brussels babus must be rolling with laughter at the sight of the diminished Mrs.May struggling to hold onto her No.10 address,unlike Larry,the permanent house cat, This now diminutive figure ,much reduced in stature,is going to deliver a "hard Brexit" to the EU? A snowflakes chances in hell.The EU are already calling this debacle as Mrs.May's famous "own goal".

May survives with N.Irish DUP support,but the vultures are already circling overhead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/po ... 80856.html
Theresa May’s botched election gamble forces Tories to ask who might be the next leader
With Theresa May's authority in tatters, Tory would-be leaders are wondering about their next move


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aders-warn
'Yet another own goal' – EU points to Brexit breakdown after UK election
European diplomats and politicians fear hung parliament and weak prime minister are ‘disaster’ that threaten negotiations

Theresa May leaves Conservative party HQ in central London on Friday morning
Daniel Boffey and Jon Henley
Friday 9 June 2017
The EU will force a humiliated Theresa May to explain her intentions in Brussels as senior figures warned that with the clock ticking on Brexit negotiations, the hung parliament following the UK election was an “own goal” and a “disaster” that risked delaying or derailing the talks.

May said Brexit talks would begin on 19 June, as planned, but officials in Brussels were braced for a delay. Sources said a meeting of the European council on 22 June was the EU27’s new deadline for wanting to know the prime minister’s plans in light of the politically disastrous loss of her majority.

Donald Tusk, the European council president, reminded London that article 50 of the Lisbon treaty had already been triggered and talks would have to be concluded by March 2019.

“We don’t know when Brexit talks start,” Tusk tweeted on Friday. “We know when they must end. Do your best to avoid a ‘no deal’ as result of ‘no negotiations.”

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, said the “timetable and EU positions are clear” and talks should start “when the UK is ready”.
The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, confirmed the bloc stood ready to “open negotiations tomorrow morning at half past nine”. :rotfl:

Thursday’s snap election was of “particular importance”, Juncker said, adding that he sincerely hoped the result would have “no major impact on the negotiations we are desperately waiting for ... We are waiting for visitors coming from London. I hope we will not experience further delay.”

He appeared, however, to suggest a delay may be unavoidable in comments to the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper in Germany. “The dust in the UK now has to settle”, he said.

It had been hoped that officials from both sides would hold informal talks next week over the logistics of the negotiations before formal talks began during the week starting 19 June.

Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s Brexit representative, described the result bluntly as “yet another own goal – after Cameron now May”, adding: “I thought surrealism was a Belgian invention.”

Verhofstadt said the election outcome would “make already complex negotiations even more complicated. I hope the UK will soon have a stable government to start negotiations. This is not only about the UK, but also about the future of Europe.”

A senior diplomat said of Friday morning’s result: “We want a deal. We are professionals, we have a mandate to get a deal, and we want a deal more than anyone. But we don’t even know who we are negotiating with.”

Günther Oettinger, the German member of the European commission, said: “We need a government that can act. With a weak negotiating partner, there’s a danger the negotiations will turn out badly for both sides … I expect more uncertainty.”

Andrius Kubilius, a former conservative prime minister of Lithuania, who sits on his country’s Brexit committee, said the British government’s need to keep an unstable parliamentary alliance together was plainly a threat to progress on talks.

“I think it will be much messier now and negotiations will be much more difficult”, he said. “That’s an early thought but it depends on the internal decisions of Britain.” Kubilius added: “I think there will be a greater demand for a softer Brexit now and that is to be welcomed.”

Manfred Weber, the leader of the powerful conservative EPP group in the European parliament, tweeted that the Brexit clock was now ticking and Britain “needs a government that is ready to negotiate, and fast”.

The EU had, until now, believed it understood that May wanted to take the UK out of both the single market and the customs union, but in the early hours of Friday morning the Brexit secretary, David Davis, suggested the election result could prompt a rethink.

Davis said of the Tory’s manifesto pledges on the single market and customs union: “That’s what it [the election] was about, that’s what we put in front of the people, we’ll see tomorrow whether they’ve accepted that or not. That will be their decision.”

The French prime minister, Edouard Philippe, was quick to scotch any suggestion that Britain might perform a U-turn and ask to stay in the EU – which would in any case need EU agreement – but he did expect Brexit negotiations to be “long and complex”.

Germany’s European affairs minister, Michael Roth, said that time was tight until the expiry of a two-year window to reach a negotiated deal: “We should not waste any time,” he said.

Pierre Moscovici, the French European commissioner, said the result would affect the negotiations but declined to be drawn on whether the EU executive hoped Britain might ask to stay. He said the timetable for leaving in 2019 was not “optional” but fixed in treaty law.

The Czech prime minister, Bohuslav Sobotka, said on Friday Britain should form a new government quickly, as months have already been lost in its divorce talks with the European Union.

“I only hope that it will not take too long (to form a government) because we have already lost several months,” Sobotka told Czech Television. “But now it will be necessary to wait for who will form a government and what this government will bring to negotiations over Brexit.”

Andrew Duff, a former Liberal Democrat MEP, and visiting fellow at the European Policy Centre thinktank, said the result could lead to the UK seeking to stay within the customs union.

He said: “May won’t be strong enough to get rid of the three Brexiteers now – David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox. The only concession the pro-EU people might get from the prime minister would be for the UK to stay in the customs union so that we don’t end up like Turkey. And if that happens she would be able to get rid of Liam Fox, because there wouldn’t be any purpose for a trade secretary.”

Gianni Pitella, leader of the socialist group in the European parliament, said: “The British people just punished the clear incompetence of Theresa May. She tried to gamble on the shoulders of the UK and EU citizens. She wanted the UK to have a stronger and harder negotiating position but has the chaos of a hung parliament.”

Most European capitals had believed May would be returned to government with some form of majority, and expected that to lead to at best difficult talks, and at worst a breakdown of the negotiations, possibly as early as this summer.

May last month accused Brussels and the EU27 of “issuing threats” against Britain in an attempt “to affect the result of the election”. In fact, continental capitals would mostly prefer the government to have a strong majority since it would then feel confident enough to make concessions.

The Britain that lost and the Britain that won
The smaller the majority in Westminster, “the more likely it is that the government will run into difficulty with MPs”, a London-based Benelux diplomat said. “The negotiators will be constantly watching their backs. It’s not a recipe for good talks.”

On Thursday night, Carl Bildt, the former Swedish prime minister tweeted: “Could be messy for the United Kingdom in the years ahead. One mess risks following another. Price to be paid for lack of true leadership.”

Sophia in ‘t Veld, the Dutch MEP who set up the European parliament’s taskforce examining the UK’s treatment of EU nationals, tweeted: “Cameron gambled, lost. May gambled, lost. Tory party beginning to look like a casino.

There are several clear bones of contention in the negotiations. The EU has made clear it expects “sufficient progress” to be made on the divorce deal – including the size of the UK’s exit bill, citizens’ rights and the border in Ireland – before it will begin to discuss a future trade deal.

Predicting “the row of the summer”, Davis insisted in May that Britain wanted to “see everything packaged up together, and that’s what we’re going to do”. He has also said the UK could “walk away” if confronted with the €100bn settlement the EU is said to be considering.

The UK government, while promising it would make a “generous offer”, could also be headed for conflict with the EU27 over the rights of the 3.5 million EU nationals who have made their lives in the UK and the 1.2 million Britons settled on the continent.

In detailed position papers published last month, the EU said it expected the European court of justice to have full jurisdiction over any citizens’ rights disputes, and the European commission to be able to monitor UK compliance. Neither stipulation would be acceptable to Brexit hardliners.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby rsingh » 09 Jun 2017 19:17

Kashi wrote:
IndraD wrote:Youth voted in vengeance against Brexit what appears to be ... besides UK has strong socialist history. Now expect Brexit to be dead.


Brexit has already happened hasn't it? How is it dead?

Europeans are saying from first day; please go away.Brits are doing drama from first day. Referendum, going to the election etc. Simple fact is; even if Mre May wins 100% Votes................UK is out of EU and there is no going back. It is strange that people think it can be canceled. If UK wants to come back then they have to go out and apply for membership. And EU will punish them. They can say bye bye to agricultural aid they used to get (it was added in accession treaty because at that time UK was a poor country). There are many other things. Free borders and single currency will be imposed .

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby chetak » 09 Jun 2017 20:04

Image



The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

This article is the subject of separate legal complaints on behalf of Cambridge Analytica LLC and SCL Elections Limited, and Sophie Schmidt.
“The connectivity that is the heart of globalisation can be exploited by states with hostile intent to further their aims.[…] The risks at stake are profound and represent a fundamental threat to our sovereignty.”
Alex Younger, head of MI6, December, 2016

“It’s not MI6’s job to warn of internal threats. It was a very strange speech. Was it one branch of the intelligence services sending a shot across the bows of another? Or was it pointed at Theresa May’s government? Does she know something she’s not telling us?”
Senior intelligence analyst, April 2017

In June 2013, a young American postgraduate called Sophie was passing through London when she was called up by the boss of a firm where she’d previously interned. The company, SCL Elections, went on to be bought by Robert Mercer, a secretive hedge fund billionaire, renamed Cambridge Analytica, and achieved a certain notoriety as the data analytics firm that played a role in both Trump and Brexit campaigns. But all of this was still to come. London in 2013 was still basking in the afterglow of the Olympics. Britain had not yet Brexited. The world had not yet turned.


Follow the data: does a legal document link Brexit campaigns to US billionaire?
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“That was before we became this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump,” a former Cambridge Analytica employee who I’ll call Paul tells me. “It was back when we were still just a psychological warfare firm.”

Was that really what you called it, I ask him. Psychological warfare? “Totally. That’s what it is. Psyops. Psychological operations – the same methods the military use to effect mass sentiment change. It’s what they mean by winning ‘hearts and minds’. We were just doing it to win elections in the kind of developing countries that don’t have many rules.”

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Why would anyone want to intern with a psychological warfare firm, I ask him. And he looks at me like I am mad. “It was like working for MI6. Only it’s MI6 for hire. It was very posh, very English, run by an old Etonian and you got to do some really cool things. Fly all over the world. You were working with the president of Kenya or Ghana or wherever. It’s not like election campaigns in the west. You got to do all sorts of crazy shit.”

On that day in January 2013, Sophie met up with SCL’s chief executive, Alexander Nix, and gave him the germ of an idea. “She said, ‘You really need to get into data.’ She really drummed it home to Alexander. And she mentioned to him a firm that belonged to someone she knew about through her father.”

Who’s her father?

“Eric Schmidt.”

Eric Schmidt – the chairman of Google?”

I had been speaking to former employees of Cambridge Analytica for months and heard dozens of hair-raising stories, but it was still a gobsmacking moment. To anyone concerned about surveillance, Palantir is practically now a trigger word. The data-mining firm has contracts with governments all over the world – including GCHQ and the NSA. It’s owned by Peter Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal and major investor in Facebook, who became Silicon Valley’s first vocal supporter of Trump.

In some ways, Eric Schmidt’s daughter showing up and referring to Palantir is just another weird detail in the weirdest story I have ever researched.

A weird but telling detail. Because it goes to the heart of why the story of Cambridge Analytica is one of the most profoundly unsettling of our time. Sophie Schmidt now works for another Silicon Valley megafirm: Uber. And what’s clear is that the power and dominance of the Silicon Valley – Google and Facebook and a small handful of others – are at the centre of the global tectonic shift we are currently witnessing.

The money man: Robert Mercer, Trump supporter and owner of Cambridge Analytica.
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The money man: Robert Mercer, Trump supporter and owner of Cambridge Analytica. Photograph: Rex
It also reveals a critical and gaping hole in the political debate in Britain. Because what is happening in America and what is happening in Britain are entwined. Brexit and Trump are entwined. The Trump administration’s links to Russia and Britain are entwined. And Cambridge Analytica is one point of focus through which we can see all these relationships in play; it also reveals the elephant in the room as we hurtle into a general election: Britain tying its future to an America that is being remade - in a radical and alarming way - by Trump.

There are three strands to this story. How the foundations of an authoritarian surveillance state are being laid in the US. How British democracy was subverted through a covert, far-reaching plan of coordination enabled by a US billionaire. And how we are in the midst of a massive land grab for power by billionaires via our data. Data which is being silently amassed, harvested and stored. Whoever owns this data owns the future.

My entry point into this story began, as so many things do, with a late-night Google. Last December, I took an unsettling tumble into a wormhole of Google autocomplete suggestions that ended with “did the holocaust happen”. And an entire page of results that claimed it didn’t.

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Google’s algorithm had been gamed by extremist sites and it was Jonathan Albright, a professor of communications at Elon University, North Carolina, who helped me get to grips with what I was seeing. He was the first person to map and uncover an entire “alt-right” news and information ecosystem and he was the one who first introduced me to Cambridge Analytica.

He called the company a central point in the right’s “propaganda machine”, a line I quoted in reference to its work for the Trump election campaign and the referendum Leave campaign. That led to the second article featuring Cambridge Analytica – as a central node in the alternative news and information network that I believed Robert Mercer and Steve Bannon, the key Trump aide who is now his chief strategist, were creating. I found evidence suggesting they were on a strategic mission to smash the mainstream media and replace it with one comprising alternative facts, fake history and rightwing propaganda.

Mercer is a brilliant computer scientist, a pioneer in early artificial intelligence, and the co-owner of one of the most successful hedge funds on the planet (with a gravity-defying 71.8% annual return). And, he is also, I discovered, good friends with Nigel Farage. Andy Wigmore, Leave.EU’s communications director, told me that it was Mercer who had directed his company, Cambridge Analytica, to “help” the Leave campaign.

The second article triggered two investigations, which are both continuing: one by the Information Commissioner’s Office into the possible illegal use of data. And a second by the Electoral Commission which is “focused on whether one or more donations – including services – accepted by Leave.EU was ‘impermissable’”.

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What I then discovered is that Mercer’s role in the referendum went far beyond this. Far beyond the jurisdiction of any UK law. The key to understanding how a motivated and determined billionaire could bypass ourelectoral laws rests on AggregateIQ, an obscure web analytics company based in an office above a shop in Victoria, British Columbia.

It was with AggregateIQ that Vote Leave (the official Leave campaign) chose to spend £3.9m, more than half its official £7m campaign budget. As did three other affiliated Leave campaigns: BeLeave, Veterans for Britain and the Democratic Unionist party, spending a further £757,750. “Coordination” between campaigns is prohibited under UK electoral law, unless campaign expenditure is declared, jointly. It wasn’t. Vote Leave says the Electoral Commission “looked into this” and gave it “a clean bill of health”.

How did an obscure Canadian company come to play such a pivotal role in Brexit? It’s a question that Martin Moore, director of the centre for the study of communication, media and power at King’s College London has been asking too. “I went through all the Leave campaign invoices when the Electoral Commission uploaded them to its site in February. And I kept on discovering all these huge amounts going to a company that not only had I never heard of, but that there was practically nothing at all about on the internet. More money was spent with AggregateIQ than with any other company in any other campaign in the entire referendum. All I found, at that time, was a one-page website and that was it. It was an absolute mystery.”

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Moore contributed to an LSE report published in April that concluded UK’s electoral laws were “weak and helpless” in the face of new forms of digital campaigning. Offshore companies, money poured into databases, unfettered third parties… the caps on spending had come off. The laws that had always underpinned Britain’s electoral laws were no longer fit for purpose. Laws, the report said, that needed “urgently reviewing by parliament”.

AggregateIQ holds the key to unravelling another complicated network of influence that Mercer has created. A source emailed me to say he had found that AggregateIQ’s address and telephone number corresponded to a company listed on Cambridge Analytica’s website as its overseas office: “SCL Canada”. A day later, that online reference vanished.

There had to be a connection between the two companies. Between the various Leave campaigns. Between the referendum and Mercer. It was too big a coincidence. But everyone – AggregateIQ, Cambridge Analytica, Leave.EU, Vote Leave – denied it. AggregateIQ had just been a short-term “contractor” to Cambridge Analytica. There was nothing to disprove this. We published the known facts. On 29 March, article 50 was triggered.

Then I meet Paul, the first of two sources formerly employed by Cambridge Analytica. He is in his late 20s and bears mental scars from his time there. “It’s almost like post-traumatic shock. It was so… messed up. It happened so fast. I just woke up one morning and found we’d turned into the Republican fascist party. I still can’t get my head around it.”

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He laughed when I told him the frustrating mystery that was AggregateIQ. “Find Chris Wylie,” he said.

Who’s Chris Wylie?

“He’s the one who brought data and micro-targeting [individualised political messages] to Cambridge Analytica. And he’s from west Canada. It’s only because of him that AggregateIQ exist. They’re his friends. He’s the one who brought them in.”

There wasn’t just a relationship between Cambridge Analytica and AggregateIQ, Paul told me. They were intimately entwined, key nodes in Robert Mercer’s distributed empire. “The Canadians were our back office. They built our software for us. They held our database. If AggregateIQ is involved then Cambridge Analytica is involved. And if Cambridge Analytica is involved, then Robert Mercer and Steve Bannon are involved. You need to find Chris Wylie.”

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I did find Chris Wylie. He refused to comment.

Key to understanding how data would transform the company is knowing where it came from. And it’s a letter from “Director of Defence Operations, SCL Group”, that helped me realise this. It’s from “Commander Steve Tatham, PhD, MPhil, Royal Navy (rtd)” complaining about my use in my Mercer article of the word “disinformation”.

I wrote back to him pointing out references in papers he’d written to “deception” and “propaganda”, which I said I understood to be “roughly synonymous with ‘disinformation’.” It’s only later that it strikes me how strange it is that I’m corresponding with a retired navy commander about military strategies that may have been used in British and US elections.

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What’s been lost in the US coverage of this “data analytics” firm is the understanding of where the firm came from: deep within the military-industrial complex. A weird British corner of it populated, as the military establishment in Britain is, by old-school Tories. Geoffrey Pattie, a former parliamentary under-secretary of state for defence procurement and director of Marconi Defence Systems, used to be on the board, and Lord Marland, David Cameron’s pro-Brexit former trade envoy, a shareholder.

Steve Tatham was the head of psychological operations for British forces in Afghanistan. The Observer has seen letters endorsing him from the UK Ministry of Defence, the Foreign Office and Nato.

SCL/Cambridge Analytica was not some startup created by a couple of guys with a Mac PowerBook. It’s effectively part of the British defence establishment. And, now, too, the American defence establishment. An ex-commanding officer of the US Marine Corps operations centre, Chris Naler, has recently joined Iota Global, a partner of the SCL group.

This is not just a story about social psychology and data analytics. It has to be understood in terms of a military contractor using military strategies on a civilian population. Us. David Miller, a professor of sociology at Bath University and an authority in psyops and propaganda, says it is “an extraordinary scandal that this should be anywhere near a democracy. It should be clear to voters where information is coming from, and if it’s not transparent or open where it’s coming from, it raises the question of whether we are actually living in a democracy or not.”

Paul and David, another ex-Cambridge Analytica employee, were working at the firm when it introduced mass data-harvesting to its psychological warfare techniques. “It brought psychology, propaganda and technology together in this powerful new way,” David tells me.

Steve Bannon, former vice-president of Cambridge Analytica, now a key adviser to Donald Trump.
Steve Bannon, former vice-president of Cambridge Analytica, now a key adviser to Donald Trump. Photograph: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters
And it was Facebook that made it possible. It was from Facebook that Cambridge Analytica obtained its vast dataset in the first place. Earlier, psychologists at Cambridge University harvested Facebook data (legally) for research purposes and published pioneering peer-reviewed work about determining personality traits, political partisanship, sexuality and much more from people’s Facebook “likes”. And SCL/Cambridge Analytica contracted a scientist at the university, Dr Aleksandr Kogan, to harvest new Facebook data. And he did so by paying people to take a personality quiz which also allowed not just their own Facebook profiles to be harvested, but also those of their friends – a process then allowed by the social network.

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Facebook was the source of the psychological insights that enabled Cambridge Analytica to target individuals. It was also the mechanism that enabled them to be delivered on a large scale.

The company also (perfectly legally) bought consumer datasets – on everything from magazine subscriptions to airline travel – and uniquely it appended these with the psych data to voter files. It matched all this information to people’s addresses, their phone numbers and often their email addresses. “The goal is to capture every single aspect of every voter’s information environment,” said David. “And the personality data enabled Cambridge Analytica to craft individual messages.”

Finding “persuadable” voters is key for any campaign and with its treasure trove of data, Cambridge Analytica could target people high in neuroticism, for example, with images of immigrants “swamping” the country. The key is finding emotional triggers for each individual voter.

Cambridge Analytica worked on campaigns in several key states for a Republican political action committee. Its key objective, according to a memo the Observer has seen, was “voter disengagement” and “to persuade Democrat voters to stay at home”: a profoundly disquieting tactic. It has previously been claimed that suppression tactics were used in the campaign, but this document provides the first actual evidence.

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But does it actually work? One of the criticisms that has been levelled at my and others’ articles is that Cambridge Analytica’s “special sauce” has been oversold. Is what it is doing any different from any other political consultancy?

“It’s not a political consultancy,” says David. “You have to understand this is not a normal company in any way. I don’t think Mercer even cares if it ever makes any money. It’s the product of a billionaire spending huge amounts of money to build his own experimental science lab, to test what works, to find tiny slivers of influence that can tip an election. Robert Mercer did not invest in this firm until it ran a bunch of pilots – controlled trials. This is one of the smartest computer scientists in the world. He is not going to splash $15m on bullshit.”

Tamsin Shaw, an associate professor of philosophy at New York University, helps me understand the context. She has researched the US military’s funding and use of psychological research for use in torture. “The capacity for this science to be used to manipulate emotions is very well established. This is military-funded technology that has been harnessed by a global plutocracy and is being used to sway elections in ways that people can’t even see, don’t even realise is happening to them,” she says. “It’s about exploiting existing phenomenon like nationalism and then using it to manipulate people at the margins. To have so much data in the hands of a bunch of international plutocrats to do with it what they will is absolutely chilling.

“We are in an information war and billionaires are buying up these companies, which are then employed to go to work in the heart of government. That’s a very worrying situation.”

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A project that Cambridge Analytica carried out in Trinidad in 2013 brings all the elements in this story together. Just as Robert Mercer began his negotiations with SCL boss Alexander Nix about an acquisition, SCL was retained by several government ministers in Trinidad and Tobago. The brief involved developing a micro-targeting programme for the governing party of the time. And AggregateIQ – the same company involved in delivering Brexit for Vote Leave – was brought in to build the targeting platform.

David said: “The standard SCL/CA method is that you get a government contract from the ruling party. And this pays for the political work. So, it’s often some bullshit health project that’s just a cover for getting the minister re-elected. But in this case, our government contacts were with Trinidad’s national security council.”

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The security work was to be the prize for the political work. Documents seen by the Observer show that this was a proposal to capture citizens’ browsing history en masse, recording phone conversations and applying natural language processing to the recorded voice data to construct a national police database, complete with scores for each citizen on their propensity to commit crime.

“The plan put to the minister was Minority Report. It was pre-crime. And the fact that Cambridge Analytica is now working inside the Pentagon is, I think, absolutely terrifying,” said David.

These documents throw light on a significant and under-reported aspect of the Trump administration. The company that helped Trump achieve power in the first place has now been awarded contracts in the Pentagon and the US state department. Its former vice-president Steve Bannon now sits in the White House. It is also reported to be in discussions for “military and homeland security work”.

In the US, the government is bound by strict laws about what data it can collect on individuals. But, for private companies anything goes. Is it unreasonable to see in this the possible beginnings of an authoritarian surveillance state?

A state that is bringing corporate interests into the heart of the administration. Documents detail Cambridge Analytica is involved with many other right-leaning billionaires, including Rupert Murdoch. One memo references Cambridge Analytica trying to place an article with a journalist in Murdoch’s Wall Street Journal: “RM re-channeled and connected with Jamie McCauley from Robert Thomson News Corp office,” it says.

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It makes me think again about the story involving Sophie Schmidt, Cambridge Analytica and Palantir. Is it a telling detail, or is it a clue to something else going on? Cambridge Analytica and Palantir both declined to comment for this article on whether they had any relationship. But witnesses and emails confirm that meetings between Cambridge Analytica and Palantir took place in 2013. The possibility of a working relationship was at least discussed.

Further documents seen by the Observer confirm that at least one senior Palantir employee consulted with Cambridge Analytica in relation to the Trinidad project and later political work in the US. But at the time, I’m told, Palantir decided it was too much of a reputational risk for a more formal arrangement. There was no upside to it. Palantir is a company that is trusted to handle vast datasets on UK and US citizens for GCHQ and the NSA, as well as many other countries.

Now though, they are both owned by ideologically aligned billionaires: Robert Mercer and Peter Thiel. The Trump campaign has said that Thiel helped it with data. A campaign that was led by Steve Bannon, who was then at CambridgeAnalytica.............................................................................................................................................................

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby ramana » 09 Jun 2017 20:25

Philip wrote:Seriously,why has the UK-India td. been locked? For one,India and the UK have more issues in common that Indo-EU. Don't forget that Britain has voted to leave the EU (Brexit) and thus should not be discussed in the EU td!


The thread was closed once it reached 100 pages. However new thread was not opened as normal practice due to oversight. No CT. Just plain lapse.

Thanks for opening the thread.....

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby vinod » 09 Jun 2017 20:33

I can't fathom how EU benefits from the UK political turmoil. If anything, it just got tougher.

If coalition starts fighting over what's been agreed with EU, they will have to start from all over. With Labour strengthened, they will be also sniping away at whatever deals they get or may not get.

Please note that "No deal" is painful for both EU and UK (more for UK of course). A punished UK will hold a grudge against EU forever!

I see this ending badly! :(

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ramana » 09 Jun 2017 20:33

chetak, I think we need to x-post in Geopolitics thread....

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 20:42

rsingh wrote:
Kashi wrote:
Brexit has already happened hasn't it? How is it dead?

Europeans are saying from first day; please go away.Brits are doing drama from first day. Referendum, going to the election etc. Simple fact is; even if Mre May wins 100% Votes................UK is out of EU and there is no going back. It is strange that people think it can be canceled. If UK wants to come back then they have to go out and apply for membership. And EU will punish them. They can say bye bye to agricultural aid they used to get (it was added in accession treaty because at that time UK was a poor country). There are many other things. Free borders and single currency will be imposed .

Yes you are right. UK can still pull out of it. It is UK which is delaying Brexit and not EU. Still there is a chance but remote...


Brussels doesn't care what political flavour the new UK government has, it just wants a stable UK government, with a secure prime minister at its helm, who will stay in place for the duration of the negotiations and who won't waver and U-turn after agreements are made.
A wobbly British premier, unable to make tough decisions and sell them at home, increases the possibility of no Brexit deal at all - the so-called cliff-edge scenario - and that would hurt both the EU and UK badly.
Banks, businesses, ports and flights, the politically sensitive and economically significant Irish border, EU citizens living in the UK, UK citizens in the rest of the EU, UK healthcare - the list is endless UK-side.
The EU's pressing concern is to get the UK to honour long-term financial commitments before it leaves, otherwise there'll be a yawning hole in Brussels' multi-annual budget.
EU unity - currently so evident on the Brexit question - would evaporate in a flash if member states suddenly had a cat fight over having to pay extra, or receive less money, should the UK walk out without stumping up a considerable sum
.The EU has plenty more headaches to deal with: ongoing migration and eurozone problems, security concerns about Russia and an unpredictable US president... to name but a few.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40220247

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 20:43

For now backlash on conservatives leading Brexit deal in UK has quitened demand for 'exit' polls in many EU countries for sure, EU may be more stable minus UK for now.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby rsingh » 09 Jun 2017 20:54

vinod wrote:I can't fathom how EU benefits from the UK political turmoil. If anything, it just got tougher.

If coalition starts fighting over what's been agreed with EU, they will have to start from all over. With Labour strengthened, they will be also sniping away at whatever deals they get or may not get.

Please note that "No deal" is painful for both EU and UK (more for UK of course). A punished UK will hold a grudge against EU forever!

I see this ending badly! :(


Ok first watch this if you have not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

No DEAL is NOT painful for Europe. UK tried everything to disturb functioning of EU. Closed frontier,no single currency,tried to bring turkey inside (knowing that it is not going to happen), tried to sabotage important discussion using newly inducted Central European states etc.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 09 Jun 2017 21:31

BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40219338
The Conservatives lost their majority.
Labour suffered its third defeat in a row.
The Liberal Democrats found themselves treading water.
The SNP's independence bandwagon came to a juddering halt.
And UKIP imploded.
It is not only Conservatives who will be asking why Mrs May changed her mind about holding a snap election.
The only winners are perhaps the DUP - to whom she seems to have awarded the role of kingmakers.


-Youth voting for labour is biggest game changer
-Working class did not back up Conservative the way they do
-SNP shrunk in Scotland hence expect demand for Scot referendum to be low.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby vinod » 09 Jun 2017 21:34

rsingh wrote:Ok first watch this if you have not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

No DEAL is NOT painful for Europe. UK tried everything to disturb functioning of EU. Closed frontier,no single currency,tried to bring turkey inside (knowing that it is not going to happen), tried to sabotage important discussion using newly inducted Central European states etc.


Yes, the video was doing rounds during the brexit vote.

It is painful for EU as well. Just highlighting few things from the article posted above..
IndraD wrote:
Brussels doesn't care what political flavour the new UK government has, it just wants a stable UK government, with a secure prime minister at its helm, who will stay in place for the duration of the negotiations and who won't waver and U-turn after agreements are made.
A wobbly British premier, unable to make tough decisions and sell them at home, increases the possibility of no Brexit deal at all - the so-called cliff-edge scenario - and that would hurt both the EU and UK badly.
Banks, businesses, ports and flights, the politically sensitive and economically significant Irish border, EU citizens living in the UK, UK citizens in the rest of the EU, UK healthcare - the list is endless UK-side.
The EU's pressing concern is to get the UK to honour long-term financial commitments before it leaves, otherwise there'll be a yawning hole in Brussels' multi-annual budget.
EU unity - currently so evident on the Brexit question - would evaporate in a flash if member states suddenly had a cat fight over having to pay extra, or receive less money, should the UK walk out without stumping up a considerable sum

.The EU has plenty more headaches to deal with: ongoing migration and eurozone problems, security concerns about Russia and an unpredictable US president... to name but a few.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40220247


Given that there are fundamental issues how the EU works and Greece, Italy and Spain all teetering on economic collapse.. will have to wait and see how long they can kick the can down the road with all these bailouts.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Lisa » 09 Jun 2017 23:06

rsingh wrote:
Kashi wrote:
Brexit has already happened hasn't it? How is it dead?

Europeans are saying from first day; please go away.Brits are doing drama from first day. Referendum, going to the election etc. Simple fact is; even if Mre May wins 100% Votes................UK is out of EU and there is no going back. It is strange that people think it can be canceled. If UK wants to come back then they have to go out and apply for membership. And EU will punish them. They can say bye bye to agricultural aid they used to get (it was added in accession treaty because at that time UK was a poor country). There are many other things. Free borders and single currency will be imposed .


I think you may be mistaken. Other than 1975, the UK has been a net contributor to the EU. It currently pays in NETT approximately £10 Billion annually into the EU. It is also one of the smallest recipients of CAP and not really a net claimant. With regards to the addition of CAP in 1973, again I think you are mistaken. I would gladly see a link that says otherwise and retract my suggestion. Free borders are not negotiable as the are part of the Treaty of Maastricht and with regards to a single currency, it cannot be imposed as there exist an exemption, again in the Treaty of Maastricht. If this were not the case, you may wish to explain why, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania and Bulgaria to name a few, who are recent members, do not use the Euro.

With regards to the EU, good riddance to bad rubbish. If the UK is such a drag then lets all go for a hard exit, why negotiate with the UK at all?

http://researchbriefings.files.parliame ... P-7886.pdf.
Last edited by Lisa on 09 Jun 2017 23:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Lisa » 09 Jun 2017 23:13

shiv wrote:Pardon the stupid question but what happened in the election?


Simple, Conservatives lost their majority and now need 4 more seats to secure a working majority (322 seat are needed in all they have 318). A party from Northern Ireland which has traditionally aligned itself with the Tories will give them 10 more seats, ie a majority of 6. That all folks.

P.S. Theresa May is an idiot.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby rsingh » 09 Jun 2017 23:30

^^^
UK got one exemption but if she apply for membership, she is not getting any exemption (ask France and they can veto ). Article 50 can not be taken back. So Uk will have to apply again from scratch.All countries in EU have to come to Euro at one stage. Poland is taking time. Actually ECB brings banking systems of newly joining countries as par and they they have to follow strict policies. Do not forget there are 26 countries who can veto. Poland and Romania want free movement for its workers.I amy be wrong but I did my MBA in European Business Environment. I had visits to ECB in Luxemberg for some project. I think UK was brought down by tabloids who give regular diet of bad bad EU to regular UK Abduls. Just to gain some imaginary leverage in "TALKS" with EU , UK went for referendum. They had no idea that that is what EU wanted. I may be wrong, but that is prevailing mood in Brusselabad.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Lisa » 10 Jun 2017 00:31

Regretfully, you are wrong in the facts you have cited.

1, The UK is a nett contributor to the EU
2. It is not a nett recipient of CAP.
3. The UK has passed a law to leave Europe so withdrawal from article 50 is not possible without a parliamentary vote. Who in the UK is talking about reapplication. Conservatives and Labour overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU . Which constituency other than Scottish National Party and Liberal Democrat who collectively have just 47 seats in a 650 seat house do you have in mind for a reapplication that you are discussing or is this just your suggestion?
4. You do not need tabloids to see the material changes to UK society as a consequence of unrestricted EU migration or imposition of European laws without parliamentary scrutiny.
5. UK alone did not ask for an exemption in Maastricht., Denmark also did

and the same question to you again,

If the UK is such a drag then let's all go for a hard exit, why negotiate with the UK at all?

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Re: Indo-UK news

Postby Atmavik » 10 Jun 2017 00:57

Lisa wrote:
shiv wrote:Pardon the stupid question but what happened in the election?


Simple, Conservatives lost their majority and now need 4 more seats to secure a working majority (322 seat are needed in all they have 318). A party from Northern Ireland which has traditionally aligned itself with the Tories will give them 10 more seats, ie a majority of 6. That all folks.

P.S. Theresa May is an idiot.


Does this open the gates for BoJo ?

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Lisa » 10 Jun 2017 01:08

IMHO, yes and possibly also for

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dav ... politician)

Lets see how it pans out.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jun 2017 01:23

I can see it now. EU debating whether to allow Turkey or UK back in first. :LOL

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ramana » 10 Jun 2017 01:41

I think May was deluded by Opinion polls and Labour's supposed decline.
The shift of young people to Labour is the surprise.
And SNP decline is another surprise.

She is not going to be displaced.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 10 Jun 2017 02:00

Author is Dutch with obvious soft corner for EU neverthless...valid points..
Even this election didn’t shake Britain’s Brexit denial. Europe must act alone
This is, in one image, the state of denial that Britain is still in, surprising election result or not. This morning sources around Theresa May leaked to the Tory-friendly Daily Telegraph that she is likely to stay on as prime minister because “she does not want to allow Brussels to delay Brexit talks”.

Brussels cannot afford to risk the integrity of the single market by saving Britain from itself through a sweet deal
One has to ask what is in May’s morning briefings on the EU and Europe. Clippings from the Daily Mail and the Sun with a balanced selection of Ukip tweets? Ever since the referendum the EU has effectively said, first, that “you can take our rules or leave our rules but there is not going to be a special deal because then every member state will demand opt-outs and exceptions and the whole single market disintegrates”. And, two, please, start withdrawal proceedings as soon as possible. As Le Monde editor Arnaud Leparmentier put it on Twitter last night: “The great danger is becoming hostage to British foot-dragging.” He added: “Messieurs les Anglais, finissez en” (in good English: Get on with it).

That is the view from a country where the newly elected president Emmanuel Macron did do what Labour and the Conservatives failed to: present the voters with the dilemmas facing France and then put forward his own set of solutions. It earned him the very thing Theresa May wanted but did not get: a mandate.

Alas, European leaders now have a duty to look after their own citizens’ interests. Brussels cannot afford to risk the integrity and coherence of the single market by saving Britain from itself through a sweet deal. But nor can it risk total economic meltdown in the UK, since this would send dangerous economic ripples across the continent. It would also jeopardise Britain’s ability to pay for its Nato contribution.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gotiations

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 10 Jun 2017 02:08

ramana wrote:I think May was deluded by Opinion polls and Labour's supposed decline.
The shift of young people to Labour is the surprise.
And SNP decline is another surprise.

She is not going to be displaced.

why young people voted labour: believe or not Corbyn became a role model for youth out there!

“Young people were deeply frustrated and angry with the years of Tory rule that saw cuts to education, cuts to our health service, and a total dismantling of our welfare state. Our research in this election has demonstrated that students were less geared towards their personal gain and more concerned about the future for the generations to come. It was about creating a collective, fair, and equal society.”
Research by the NUS with 2,000 students revealed that around 80% were deeply upset by the results of the EU referendum, Bouattia said, “so we think this was a strong motivating factor. Also, 750,000 young people became 18-year-olds between the EU referendum and this election.”
believe or not Corbyn became a role model for many young people out there!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... bour-surge

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby rsingh » 10 Jun 2017 02:18

Lisa wrote:Regretfully, you are wrong in the facts you have cited.

1, The UK is a nett contributor to the EU
2. It is not a nett recipient of CAP.
3. The UK has passed a law to leave Europe so withdrawal from article 50 is not possible without a parliamentary vote. Who in the UK is talking about reapplication. Conservatives and Labour overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU . Which constituency other than Scottish National Party and Liberal Democrat who collectively have just 47 seats in a 650 seat house do you have in mind for a reapplication that you are discussing or is this just your suggestion?
4. You do not need tabloids to see the material changes to UK society as a consequence of unrestricted EU migration or imposition of European laws without parliamentary scrutiny.
5. UK alone did not ask for an exemption in Maastricht., Denmark also did

and the same question to you again,

If the UK is such a drag then let's all go for a hard exit, why negotiate with the UK at all?


Uk is not net contributor alone, so are other major countries. Why UK thinks they deserve special treatment ? Whenever you are part of an union,group,or a bigger entity,you loose some of your rights .you have to give and take for mutual benefits. UK is negotiating treaty not for the benefits of Europe. Uk is doing so in order to separate the things orderly.it is in treaty. In any new deal signed, Uk will loose economically and politically. UK papers are full of news about rosey future. Problem is..........it is not going to happen. Example Poland is obliged to get node of EU before signing any treaty with UK. This condition was specifically added to counter divide and rule strategy.
You can read some basic information on
http://openeurope.org.uk/blog/tags/comm ... al-policy/

or you can go to EU sites.

Now I may be biased because I live here. But I have been to uk many times; My kids were in Private schools and now in university. but certain things are strange. EU stipulates that minimum size of a hotel/B&B size is 25 mq. Half of Torquey will be closed it it is implemented. doubling the train prices in peak hrs is to benefit from people, when they have no options. It done to control the crowed. Instead of investing in efficiency of transport system you discourage them to take transport. Food hygienic in restaurants is a big shock. Have you seen oil dripping from fish that is wrapped in newspaper? In places like India you get this because they are poor unhygienic people. 6 month waiting list for operations? WTF. I for once agree with Napoleon.......country of shopkeepers.
Hey please no offence. I am just writing what I feel. I amy be wrong.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby KJo » 10 Jun 2017 02:20

Help me understand.

May had absolute majority and was PM. Why the hell did she choose to have mid term elections? I read somewhere it would help her in Brexit, but how? She had a majority and could do anything she wanted. Now she has to beg the coalition members.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby eklavya » 10 Jun 2017 02:24

ramana wrote:I think May was deluded by Opinion polls and Labour's supposed decline.
The shift of young people to Labour is the surprise.
And SNP decline is another surprise.

She is not going to be displaced.


Actually she lost due to her own incredibly inept campaign. Defeat from the jaws of victory, etc. Plus the campaign exposed her lack of political acumen, wit and charisma. She really is as dull, clueless and a bullying bigot as most people imagine.

She is now toast. The only question is when the butter and jam will be applied. She will be gone before autumn. If the Tories want to salvage a future, they need to bring back George Osborne, who advised Cameron against holding the Brexit referendum.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby rsingh » 10 Jun 2017 02:32

^^^Kjo
Brits are under impression that if they have strong mandate at home they can get better deal with Europe. So she wanted even stronger mandate. I have no idea who gave them this idea. They are mixing up things. Strong mandate for UK means to discuss terms on behalf of UK. Strong or not strong that does't matter. I am listening this BS for last 15 years. I have seen UK PM (with strong mandate) coming to summit in Brussels and and no world press waiting for him. Was hurled quickly inside building so that his car makes way for Estonian (or was it latvian) primer.


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