Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2018 03:09

Britain's wave of violent crime is being driven by cocaine flooding into UK, leaked Home Office report reveals
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailymailUK

London under spate of violent crimes, knife attacks: in many cases being carried out by teenagers. In March it saw more murder than NY.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Karthik S » 11 Jun 2018 07:06

ArjunPandit wrote:I've got suspicion that either Ashish raval is staying in Buckingham palace or
he's British incarnation of our own philip sir
Or he looks like British and speaks like them


It is really disgusting and stinks how certain people can have such slave minds. I always wondered how Indian sepoys and domestic helps can work for the briturds before 1947, we all get a glimpse here.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby g.sarkar » 11 Jun 2018 07:40

chetak wrote:Also look up how those brits conspired with the USA to diddle us out of billions of dollars ( at today's exchange rates) that they had "borrowed" from India for the war, how they stopped the convertibility of the UK pound just to screw us and many other sly, underhand and devious tricks that only they are capable of like cheating us by palming off old and used warships to us at exorbitant prices.
Don't ask for data, look it up your self. I am sure that your internet speeds are much faster than our medieval systems here.
But as you say, they are not racist at all.

Chetakji,
Most Indians are not aware of how much the British stole from us, and how it was done. I can recommend "India Today" by Rajni Palme Dutt written around 1930s, which deals with this topic. While you may not like Mr. Dutt's views you can not argue with his statistics. The book was never released in India by the British due to obvious reasons, but may be available on line. The book is rare and I have it in its German translation.
This is an abridged version:
http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/view/acti ... ePid2=true
Gautam

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Primus » 11 Jun 2018 08:12

chetak wrote:But as you say, they are not racist at all.


Heh heh, how quickly people forget that slavery in the US and apartheid in South Africa - two of the most egregious examples of the hatred of man for his fellow man simply for the difference in their skin color - were both initiated, enabled and perpetuated by the Brits. If you read the accounts of their time in India, it was hardly different, except there was no overt slave-keeping.

From the horse's mouth:

"Apartheid: made in Britain: Richard Dowden explains how Churchill, Rhodes and Smuts caused black South Africans to lose their rights"


A simple google search brings up tons of hits on similar lines.

May I humbly suggest that we've bashed this topic to death here and perhaps it is time to move on?

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby habal » 11 Jun 2018 09:02

Karthik S wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:I've got suspicion that either Ashish raval is staying in Buckingham palace or
he's British incarnation of our own philip sir
Or he looks like British and speaks like them


It is really disgusting and stinks how certain people can have such slave minds. I always wondered how Indian sepoys and domestic helps can work for the briturds before 1947, we all get a glimpse here.


1200 years of colinisation leaves a genetic imprint. This should not be underestimated at any cost. We develop a slavish attitude without us realizing we even have one. Like a book we can only read a page at a time. Many times I have wondered that why out of all expats Indians are the only ones to rat out on their countrymen in front of any white, european looking people, it is like they are their men/women speaking on their behalf, instead of understanding the plight of our kindred. This critter-like quality takes time to develop and can settle only in a host that loses all sense of social loyalty and senses betrayal from society of origin and accompanying low self esteem. As much as I hate it I have also come to realize that long periods of feudalization, islamisation & colonization have resulted in such behaviour which is impossible to remove overnight. We must be prepared for long haul and instead of attacking a person who displays such anti-Indianism we should approach the issue tangentially and laterally rather than frontally. When you frontally confront someone who accuses you of poor hygiene and poor values, then confronting that just makes them change accusations and not really change their mind. The deeper you argue with them, the deeper they stick to their points.

Only way one can get such people to unsettle is by changing the nature of discourse or moving the topic to some thing which the accuser is not prepared of or does not have a ready reply without appearing confrontational or without appearing to give him too much of an attention. This is an art and has to be cultivated with practice. It will not come naturally, innate instincts to argue or settle debate on one's terms must be avoided, satisfaction must be perceived from any incremental gains and not outright championship of a line of thought.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby KrishnaK » 11 Jun 2018 09:46

Primus wrote:
chetak wrote:But as you say, they are not racist at all.


Heh heh, how quickly people forget that slavery in the US and apartheid in South Africa - two of the most egregious examples of the hatred of man for his fellow man simply for the difference in their skin color - were both initiated, enabled and perpetuated by the Brits. If you read the accounts of their time in India, it was hardly different, except there was no overt slave-keeping.

From the horse's mouth:

"Apartheid: made in Britain: Richard Dowden explains how Churchill, Rhodes and Smuts caused black South Africans to lose their rights"


A simple google search brings up tons of hits on similar lines.

May I humbly suggest that we've bashed this topic to death here and perhaps it is time to move on?

From the article you linked

The next blow to democracy came after the Boer war. Elsewhere in the world the imperial government in London exercised a veto over its colonialists to protect the interests of the native people of the colony from the settlers. In Kenya, for example, London blocked several attempts by colonists to make Kenya a 'white man's country'. Ultimately, in Rhodesia, Britain imposed sanctions to reverse Ian Smith's Declaration of Independence. In South Africa, however, the veto was abandoned when the Union of South Africa Act was passed in 1910 and the man who played a vital role in its abandonment was Churchill.
...
During the war the British had encouraged Africans to work for British victory, which they did in large numbers. With victory, Britain might have been expected to extend the Cape non-racial franchise to the conquered territories of the Transvaal and the Orange River Colony so that blacks would be represented in the whole territory the way they had been in the British colony. But not only did they not do so, they also limited the 'native' vote to the Cape. Africans were to have no say in the election of a national parliament, although they retained their voting rights to the Cape parliament.


It's pretty absurd to compare the UK of today with one from a 100 years ago. Even then, it was better that its peers, although it has plenty of blood on its hands.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby dnivas » 11 Jun 2018 11:13

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/n ... epage=true

Nirav Modi, the billionaire jeweller at the heart of a more than ₹13,578-crore Punjab National Bank (PNB) fraud case in India, has fled to the UK, where he is claiming political asylum, the Financial Times reported on Sunday, citing Indian and British officials.

Britain's Home Office said it does not provide information on individual cases. Nirav Modi could not be contacted by Reuters for comment on the FT report.

PNB, India's second-largest State-run bank, said earlier in 2018 that two jewellery groups headed by Modi and his uncle Mehul Choksi had defrauded it by raising credit from overseas branches of other banks using illegal guarantees issued by rogue PNB staff at a Mumbai branch over several years.

Nirav Modi is in London trying to claim asylum from what he calls “political persecution”, the FT reported.........



Time to clamp down a couple UK businessmen who fly here and put them in Jail.

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Re: Arvind eye Care vs UK NHS Eye care

Postby SaraLax » 11 Jun 2018 11:42

ashish raval wrote:Questions:
A) how many Aravind eye care hospital are there in India that were used in comparison with Thousands of NHS hospitals average results?
B) how can you even compare non governmental data with a government funded entity function which has its own limitations and bureaucracy?
C) Show me data comparing Aravind care Vs Moorfields hospital Foundation?
D) I am not even comparing private healthcare available here (luckily I do get for family courtesy company) which is state of the art like USA ?

Having said above there are things that India is good at and NHs may have it's own issues of being government run outfit. General idea is that population at large has free healthcare which is reasonable quality.


Almost every leading management/medical institution (whether big consultancies or business departments/medical departments in leading universities) in the west has profiled Aravind eye care system and done case studies on comparisons between Arvind eye care & the eye care system of their own country and published articles about the same. You can browse the given links in Arvind eyecare's website or even google for the achievements by Arvind eye care (and the secret of this sauce is the Hindu spiritual ethos that runs this organization & not some other modern process or financial inducements).

The same applies for the Free-For-All, Zero-Charge super speciality hospitals run in India by Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust. The continuing yet unbelievable feats (for ex the 2 Lakh instances of Zero Charge based Cardio/Cardio-thoracic & Vascular/Ortho/Urology/Opthalmology/Plastic Surgeries done- between the years 1991 & 2014 - for needy Indian people with very good results in the Super-Speciality hospitals run by the Sathya Sai Central Trust) cannot be repeated anywhere else in the world ... because the underlying motivation is "Love for humanity" & "Happiness through selfless service" type principles propounded by Hinduism. There is no idea of any conversion of people of other religions into Hindu religion in this Sathya Sai organization because "God is One & Same for all" & hence every main festival of almost every religion is celebrated in the Sathya Sai organizations with great vigour (this organization is very widely spread across the globe including in the Islamic Middle East) and bhajans are sung not just for Rama/Krishna/Shiva/Parvati but also for Jesus, Zorastra, Allah, Buddha, Mahaveera, Jewish gods and etc.

Lastly don't put down India when comparing to a violent, duplicitious country like Britain - which still supplies weapons for Saudi Arabia's wars against Yemen, which bombs innocent people in Syria & Libya with their Typhoon fighter aircrafts and which has never ever apologized to the countries it ruled & plundered with terrible consequences still being felt in those now 'free' countries across Asia & African continents (so unlike their teutonic cousins i.e modern West Germany, who apologized to the nation of Poland, to Jews & Roma people across the world, for the terrible destruction brought about them during their comparitively less violent Nazi activities for a decade or so).

All people of your ilk can see are only the useless politicians (not that UK or US or some other developed country has good, non-thieving, altruistic-minded politicians) & useless Bollywood actors of India. But then there is a whole world of fully functional, high surprise inducing (for folks who don't know India at a deeper level) entities in India (about which Indians themselves don't know much).

India has already taken over struggling-for-life or even defunct but famous British brands & entities and has converted them into profit making well run entities in a short time span (like JLR, Tetley Tea, (British) Leyland = Ashok Leyland, Royal Enfield Bikes).

Indian economy is growing fast and so are Indian capabilities in technical & scientific areas. I forsee in the not-so-far-future where India will overtake the UK in many aspects of life (health/wealth/educational/Technical & scientifical capabilities).
Last edited by SaraLax on 11 Jun 2018 12:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 11 Jun 2018 12:12

And here are some very clear ideas of britain.

And some ignorami are insisting that we join in trade with such a poisonous entity?? If we do trade, ignore the britshits and trade with all others excluding the britshits totally and completely.

It is the very least that we could do to them in return for what was knowingly and evilly done to us by them.

But, still, I would urge all to appreciate the fact that the britshits are not racist at all.

The Partition: The British game of 'divide and rule'

Before leaving India, the British made sure a united India would not be possible.

Shashi Tharoor by Shashi Tharoor
10 Aug 2017

On August 15, 1947, India won independence: a moment of birth that was also an abortion, since freedom came with the horrors of the partition, when East and West Pakistan were hacked off the stooped shoulders of India by the departing British.

Seventy years later, it is hard to look back without horror at the savagery of the country's vivisection, when rioting, rape and murder scarred the land, millions were uprooted from their homes, and billions of rupees worth of property were damaged and destroyed.

Within months, India and Pakistan were embroiled in a war over Kashmir, the consequences of which still affect us today.

There was an intangible partition, too. Friendships were destroyed, families ruined, geography hacked, history misread, tradition denied, minds and hearts torn apart.

The creation and perpetuation of Hindu-Muslim antagonism was the most significant accomplishment of British imperial policy: the colonial project of "divide et impera" (divide and rule) fomented religious antagonisms to facilitate continued imperial rule and reached its tragic culmination in 1947.

The British liked drawing lines on maps of other countries; they had done it in the Middle East after World War I, and they did it again in India. Partition was the coda to the collapse of British authority in India in 1947.


The killing and mass displacement worsened as people sought frantically to be on the "right" side of the lines the British were to draw across their homeland. More than a million people died in the savagery that accompanied the freedom of India and Pakistan; some 17 million were displaced, and countless properties destroyed and looted. Lines meant lives.

In that last, mad, headlong rush to freedom and partition, the British emerge with little credit. Before World War II, they had no intention of devolving power so rapidly, or at all. The experience of the elected governments in the last years of the British Raj confirmed that the British had never been serious about their proclaimed project of promoting the responsible governance of India by Indians.

When the elected ministries of the Indian National Congress quit office in protest against the British declaring war against Germany on India's behalf without consulting them, the British thought little of appointing unelected Muslim Leaguers in their place and, in many cases, assuming direct control of functions that had supposedly been devolved to Indians. They openly helped the Muslim League take advantage of this unexpected opportunity to exercise influence and patronage that their electoral support had not earned them and to build up support while their principal opponents languished in jail.

This was all part of the policy of divide and rule, systematically promoting political divisions between Hindus and Muslims, defined as the monolithic communities they had never been before the British.

The British had been horrified, during the Revolt of 1857, to see Hindus and Muslims fighting side by side and under each other’s command against the foreign oppressor. They vowed this would not happen again. “Divide et impera was an old Roman maxim, and it shall be ours”, wrote Lord Elphinstone. A systematic policy of fomenting separate consciousness among the two communities was launched, with overt British sponsorship. When restricted franchise was grudgingly granted to Indians, the British created separate communal electorates, so that Muslim voters could vote for Muslim candidates for Muslim seats. The seeds of division were sown, to prevent a unified nationalist movement that could overthrow the British.

No one in any responsible position in Britain as late as 1940 had any serious intention whatsoever of relinquishing the Empire or surrendering the jewel in His Majesty's Crown to a rabble of nationalist Indians clad in homespun. But the devastation of World War II meant that only one-half of the phrase could survive: bled, bombed and battered for six years, Britain could divide, but it could no longer rule.

The British - terrorised by German bombing, demoralised by various defeats and large numbers of their soldiers taken prisoner, shaken by the desertion of Indian soldiers and the mutiny of Indian sailors, shivering in the record cold of the winter of 1945-46, crippled by power cuts and factory closures resulting from a post-war coal shortage - were exhausted and in no mood to focus on a distant Empire when their own needs at home were so pressing.



They were also more or less broke: American loans had kept the economy afloat and needed to be repaid, and even India was owed a sizable debt. Overseas commitments were no longer sustainable or particularly popular. Exit was the only viable option: the question was what they would leave behind - one India, two or several fragments?

Britain's own tactics before and during the war ensured that by the time departure came, the Muslim League had been strengthened enough to sustain its demand for a separate homeland for Muslims, and the prospects of a united India surviving a British exit had essentially faded. Divide et impera had worked too well: a device meant to perpetuate British rule in India ensured a united India could not survive without the British. Two countries was what it would be.


The task of dividing the two nations was assigned to Sir Cyril Radcliffe, a lawyer who had never been to India before and knew nothing of its history, society or traditions. Radcliffe, perspiring profusely in the unfamiliar heat, drew up his maps in less than five weeks, dividing provinces, districts, villages, homes and hearts - and promptly scuttled to Britain, never to return to India. The British Empire simply crumbled in disorder. The British were heedless of the lives that would be lost in their headlong rush to the exits.

The scars of the partition have lasted 70 years, even though India has emerged as a thriving pluralist democracy while Pakistan - splitting into two with the secession of the East as Bangladesh in 1971 - and Bangladesh have encountered difficulties in maintaining democracy. But India's flourishing democracy of seven decades is no tribute to British rule. It is a bit rich for the British to suppress, exploit, imprison, torture and maim people for 200 years and then celebrate the fact that they are a democracy at the end of it.

If Britain's greatest accomplishment was the creation of a single political unit called India, fulfilling the aspirations of visionary Indian emperors from Ashoka to Akbar, then its greatest failure must be the shambles of that original Brexit - cutting and running from the land they had claimed to rule for its betterment, leaving behind a million dead, 17 million displaced, billions of rupees of property destroyed, and the flames of communal hatred blazing hotly across the ravaged land. There is no greater indictment of the failures of British rule in India than the tragic manner of its ending.

Shashi Tharoor is an elected member of India's parliament and chairs its Foreign Affairs Committee. He is the prize-winning author of 16 books, including, most recently, Inglorious Empire: What the British Did To India.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 11 Jun 2018 15:17

This is britain today.

The same could be true of many other countries but to portray that britain is racist free and any mention of the same is wrong as mentioned by some posters is totally delusional.

Another chilling day in Wild West Britain: Masked gunman shoots victim point-blank on residential Yorkshire street as violent crime spree spreads

Image



It is just one more sickening incident in a wave of violent crime sweeping the country.

There have been 74 killings in London so far this year - many of them stabbings - and at one point the capital's murder rate was higher that New York's for the first time.

The latest victim was a man in his 30s who was stabbed to death in Haringey on Saturday night.

In February more than 250 knives and swords were seized across London in just one week and 283 people, many of them teenagers, were arrested for carrying them.

There were more than 23,000 moped-related crimes in London last year – an average of 60 every day.

MPs claim London is like the 'Wild West' because gangs appear fearless about being caught.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby kvraghav » 11 Jun 2018 15:19

All said and done, they have to either give us Mallya and Modi or take all the indian prisoners to the UK.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ashish raval » 11 Jun 2018 16:03

ashish_raval wrote:We see such scenes everyday multiplied by 10 times in desh too.


{Rest snipped. Poster warned}
Last edited by Suraj on 11 Jun 2018 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: All but the specific content for which poster is being warned, has been deleted.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2018 17:30

Its official:
Nirav Modi is in UK and has pleaded Britain to grant asylum to save him from political persecution. An innocent Britain is looking into papers if he actually ever committed any fraud. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44436258

What I am interested to know is how he entered UK. What passport he is travelling on and what visa from UK he holds.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2018 18:04

I believe this thread is here to discuss matters of interest pertaining to India. May be mods can show the light!

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2018 18:08

FT claims to have tracked down Nirav to London. https://www.ft.com/content/8dc791c0-6b0 ... 230fa67aec

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Vips » 11 Jun 2018 18:12

20 Years ago if a person like Gujral had the balls to call Britainistan a third rate power then today after everything going for us if we do not give the two faced plunderers a "either /or" warning and also implement it then we might as well STFU about what we are and what we are going to be in the future.

If we do not have the grumption for an outright face off then make them feel the pain by offering reciprocal protection to some of their white collared fugitives. This constant lecturing about "fair laws", "due process" and "prison conditions" should not be allowed to be used as pretexts to play their dirty game.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Lisa » 11 Jun 2018 18:33

IndraD wrote:FT claims to have tracked down Nirav to London. https://www.ft.com/content/8dc791c0-6b0 ... 230fa67aec


Under the rules of asylum, as I understand them, you are obliged to claim asylum in the first country you land in, ie, if the stories are to be believed, then that would not be the UK as he has already landed elsewhere before he arrived in the UK having left India. Furthermore, if he is in procession of another passport, ie one of another 'safe' country, how can be decide that the UK has an obligation to grant him asylum and not the county whose protection he already has, eg lets say for argument sake, Singapore.

I hazard a guess, Singapore will ship him out to India pronto and thus his arrival in the UK.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 11 Jun 2018 19:06

Lisa wrote:
IndraD wrote:FT claims to have tracked down Nirav to London. https://www.ft.com/content/8dc791c0-6b0 ... 230fa67aec


Under the rules of asylum, as I understand them, you are obliged to claim asylum in the first country you land in, ie, if the stories are to be believed, then that would not be the UK as he has already landed elsewhere before he arrived in the UK having left India. Furthermore, if he is in procession of another passport, ie one of another 'safe' country, how can be decide that the UK has an obligation to grant him asylum and not the county whose protection he already has, eg lets say for argument sake, Singapore.

I hazard a guess, Singapore will ship him out to India pronto and thus his arrival in the UK.


rumour has it that he first landed in hong kong and the hans did not cooperate with the GoI.

He definitely has some dual citizenship and holds another valid passport unknown to the GoI.

He has planned the sequence out very well and gamed it even before making his first escape moves. He may have even rehearsed it a few times to iron out any difficulties.

He seems to have sacrificed all his PSU bank pawns but seems to be holding on to his ministry assets for insurance, deep access and continued early warning.

Such a massive scam simply cannot happen without the largescale systemic involvement and is not a one time, lone wolf type of opportunity based play.
Last edited by chetak on 11 Jun 2018 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Primus » 11 Jun 2018 19:17

I thought we were done with this!

There is no doubt that there are many here who have had a happy experience living in the UK for many years and there are also many like myself who were not so 'lucky'. A lot also depends upon what you perceive as objectionable behavior.

There are many forms of racism and we are all different in our needs and sensitivities. What I can live with others may not and vice-versa.

One thing I have noticed and I am sure so has everyone else - over the years the UK has become less important on the world stage and especially vis.a.vis India, the tables are slowly turning as has been stated already. It will not be long before their need is much greater than ours and then the East India Company will come knocking at our doors again. History however MUST NOT be allowed to repeat itself. I am confident that the present government is quite capable of this. Even more reason to make sure they stay in power for at least five more years because that is when things are really going to get very interesting.

Finally, to answer Lisa Ji's query, the ethnic MP's form 8% of the total number in the parliament (52 of 650 as per her numbers). The Asian population (or Asian-British) alone is almost 7%, if you add the Black-British, it is another 3%, making the ethnic (colored) minority around 10%. If they vote as they do in India, i.e. in a single block, it would be an easy matter for an ethnic politician to be elected. Add to this the possibility that white blue-collar workers may vote across race lines to elect a Labor candidate who just happens to be from a minority community, you get the numbers you have. None of this really has anything to do with absence or presence of racism in the country as a whole. Now, if you had a Black or Asian man running for office in a predominantly white, suburban or rural setting and got elected, THEN that would definitely be a good indicator that race does not affect politics in the UK. Sadly, everywhere else in the world it seems to.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby rsingh » 11 Jun 2018 20:03

Guys please refrain from scoring points by insulting each other. Just for info . In the town of Ypres there is a monument to Indian solder killed in world wars. Names are engraved on a gate (like India gate ).Everyday ceremonies are held at sunset. There is a separate monument made by ndia. Special officer come from India to lay the flowers on our Republic Day . When ever I visit the site there are fresh flowers. So Belgium recognises sacrifices of brave indian solders. And these days flook of indian IT guys are doing us proud. Every now and then they are in news for good reason. The reason is clear. Ourban folks are well educated and we'll behaved. Sorry for spellingsale etc. Typing it from my kambhakt phone.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Suraj » 11 Jun 2018 20:51

British posters, e.g. ashish_raval etc, are advised that this is a forum advocating Indian interests, not British ones. Further, it's already been demostrated to you that the lack of any progress in India-UK ties is entirely a result of the British hardline position on immigration. The current economic engagement level suits India, since it presents us a net gain. Any greater access for UK will only come together with correspondingly greater gain for us. British internal socio-political problems standing in the way of fulfilling our demands, are their own problems, of no relevance to India.

Characterizing the Indian position as 'charkha mentality' is the kind of language that earns you a warning or ban, because you're demonstrably a troll . The choice as to whether or not to continue harping on your pointless argument, is yours. At the very least, future posts on those lines will disappear, and potentially so will you, depending on the extent of the transgression.

To everyone: the tiresome nonsense on "Britain is racist! No, it's not!" is completely pointless drivel. So what if it is either way ? What's it got to do with this thread ? Take your bile elsewhere . The entire collection of finger wagging and anecdotal posts either way are going to be deleted.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2018 21:07

Black money offender Karti Chidambaram also has left for London apparently after mid night bail

Image

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Supratik » 11 Jun 2018 21:46

Nirav Modi has a Belgian passport IIRC.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby nandakumar » 11 Jun 2018 22:36

It is not Belize or some obscure Latin American or Carribean vohntries. Most countries of the West including the US accept dual nationality. The Indian laws have no means of ascertaining if someone is travelling using a passpot of another country while simultaneously possessing an Indian passport.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Supratik » 11 Jun 2018 22:42

Belgian i.e. Belgium not Belize.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby ashish raval » 11 Jun 2018 23:09

Apologies mods. It was not my intention to be trolling and I will always advocate better ties of India with every developed nation and Britain is just happen to be one of them.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Suraj » 11 Jun 2018 23:33

Please, enough of your 'advocacy' for the moment. It's derailed this thread enough. Your advocacy is completely useless here until UK Govt changes their position and it results in a positive acknowledgment from GoI. Until then, your energy is better expended on writing to Telegraph or Guardian to assert your point of view with your own government to tell them to change. No more of it here.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Primus » 12 Jun 2018 00:42

nandakumar wrote:It is not Belize or some obscure Latin American or Carribean vohntries. Most countries of the West including the US accept dual nationality. The Indian laws have no means of ascertaining if someone is travelling using a passpot of another country while simultaneously possessing an Indian passport.


You are SUPPOSED to surrender your Indian passport once you acquire a different citizenship while outside the country. However, upon arrival in India, the Immigration officials have no means to ascertain whether someone has done so, hence the onus really falls upon the individual. Thus a crook can easily have more than one passport and happily travel on whichever one is convenient.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 12 Jun 2018 01:21

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 882_1.html UK confirms Nirav Modi's presence in Britain, assures full support to India

UK Minister Baroness Williams has also assured Union Minister of State for Home Kiren Rijiju, at a meeting here, Britain's full cooperation in the Government of India's efforts to expedite Nirav Modi, liquor baron Vijay Mallya and others extradition.

"UK authorities have confirmed Nirav Modi's presence in Britain," an official privy to the meeting said.

Modi, who is absconding and has not joined the ED probe in the case till now, and others are being probed under various criminal laws after the fraud came to light this year following a complaint by PNB that they allegedly cheated the nationalised bank to the tune of over Rs 130 billion with the purported involvement of a few employees of the bank.

"I had a very useful meeting with UK Minister Baroness Williams. We discussed about India-UK joint efforts to deal with terrorism and extremism. We also agreed to cooperate in the matters of extradition and sharing of information," Rijiju told reporters after the hour-long meeting.

An official said the Indian-side tried to allay apprehension of the UK on the issue of human rights and conditions of jails, saying India is a democracy and fully adhered to international laws.

Letter Rogatories (LRs) in the cases lodged against Nirav Modi by the Enforcement Directorate (ED), the CBI and the Income Tax Department were sent to the UK Central Authority (UKCA) on March 19, April 14 and April 15 respectively.

The UKCA has forwarded these LRs to the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) for execution and conveyed that action would be taken on implementation of the ED LR. The ED and the SFO have entered discussions on the way forward.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 12 Jun 2018 01:24

Russia violated no international norms in its response to Skripal case - German parliament’s agency https://www.rt.com/news/429283-germany- ... ional-law/

In this particular case huff & puff from UK seems more due to the fact that if percieved as unable to protect defected spies they won't be able to recruit/poach any rogue.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby souravB » 12 Jun 2018 03:00

deleted
Last edited by souravB on 12 Jun 2018 03:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Suraj » 12 Jun 2018 03:15

Please, such "let them go puck themselves" responses are not helpful to this thread, any more than the kind of posts that were deleted earlier. It's best that you edit or delete it yourself. Don't confuse mod action to keep this thread on track, for action enabling one sided abuse.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby anishns » 12 Jun 2018 07:43

Primusji, that's not entirely true. Lets say you don't surrender your Indian citizenship while acquiring a foreign passport, this is how it will play out. Let's say you enter India on your Indian passport and get an arrival stamp on the Indian PP. When you will try to exit out of the country(India) on your foreign passport, the immigration officials do look for the arrival stamp on your foreign passport before letting you exit. In case they don't find it then its a punishable offense.

The only way you can manage to commit fraud is to exit to a 3rd country (say Nepal which allows visa free travel to Indian pp holders) and then from there exit to your foreign country on your other passport. IMO opinion if you do that a few times, you might get on the radar and land into trouble eventually

Primus wrote:You are SUPPOSED to surrender your Indian passport once you acquire a different citizenship while outside the country. However, upon arrival in India, the Immigration officials have no means to ascertain whether someone has done so, hence the onus really falls upon the individual. Thus a crook can easily have more than one passport and happily travel on whichever one is convenient.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2018 08:02

they may entirely have been travelling on the foreign passport since none were tracking. the indian passport was there but unused until we cancelled it.

nobody has said they fled from india using the indian passport.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Kashi » 12 Jun 2018 08:58

If they left India on an overseas passport, the immigration inspectors would have noted the lack of Indian visa or an OCI card.

It seems more likely they used the Indian passport to leave the country and then switched to another passport for the onward journey.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby chetak » 12 Jun 2018 10:19

Kashi wrote:If they left India on an overseas passport, the immigration inspectors would have noted the lack of Indian visa or an OCI card.

It seems more likely they used the Indian passport to leave the country and then switched to another passport for the onward journey.


If this guy has manipulated the Indian systems to suit his convenience, is it such a big ask if he got some immigration chamcha to affix the necessary stamp on his foreign passport??

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby habal » 12 Jun 2018 10:21

he has to take first leg of his travel outside India to country of dual citizenship using Indian passport and from thereon using his second passport. Otherwise immigration authorities get alerted he has entered and exiting using different passports.

mumbai -> dubai : Indian passport
dubai -> belgium : belgian passport
belgium - > london : belgian passport
london -> new york : belgian passport
new york -> belgium : belgian passport
belgium -> st. kitts : st. kitts passport
st. kitts -> new york : st. kitts passport
new york -> hong kong : st. kitts passport
hong kong -> London : st. kitts passport

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby Kashi » 12 Jun 2018 11:16

chetak wrote:If this guy has manipulated the Indian systems to suit his convenience, is it such a big ask if he got some immigration chamcha to affix the necessary stamp on his foreign passport??


It can be done of course, but the visa stamp must be issued by the Indian embassy/high commission in the country that the foreign passport belongs to. Not difficult, but requires some string pulling and calling in the favours. Plus, the immigration database would be expected to have a record for entry into India and that needs to be taken care of, which means some more string pulling and favour-calling. The more the intermediaries involved, the greater the risks and greater the chances of someone cottoning onto what the person is upto.

It'll be far more convenient to exit India on an Indian passport and then enter the destination country either using that country's passport or a passport of another country that has visa-free access to the destination country. I suspect this is what may happened here.

Such an instance is far more common than one would think. For example, there are children who inherit two (or more) nationalities from their parents, but one of the parent countries do not allow dual-nationality (they may acknowledge it, usually for minors). They often enter or exit either country using the passport of that country.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby JTull » 12 Jun 2018 13:54

habal wrote:he has to take first leg of his travel outside India to country of dual citizenship using Indian passport and from thereon using his second passport. Otherwise immigration authorities get alerted he has entered and exiting using different passports.

mumbai -> dubai : Indian passport
dubai -> belgium : belgian passport
belgium - > london : belgian passport
london -> new york : belgian passport
new york -> belgium : belgian passport
belgium -> st. kitts : st. kitts passport
st. kitts -> new york : st. kitts passport
new york -> hong kong : st. kitts passport
hong kong -> London : st. kitts passport


Surveillance of large borrowers is only going to increase. Esp. those that frequently travel overseas.

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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

Postby IndraD » 12 Jun 2018 18:16

India tells UK that British citizen Jagtar Singh a Khalistan sympathizer will have to face law in India for killing RSS man in Punjab http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-br ... uk-2624624


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