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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Garooda
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Garooda » 02 Oct 2017 20:00

Manish_Sharma wrote:
disha wrote:^Is that a gift or a business venture masquerading as gift?

And it is sad that Ranjan Tandon (an IIT'an) donated $100 Million to NYU school of engineering. He could have donated it to 100 ITIs in India., $1 Million each and that would have contributed more to India's future.


People like narayanmurty and ranjan tandon have only one thing for Bharatvasis : Free discourse on how bad communal we are, we need to improve and be like anglo-saxons. rajiv tandon did IIT which was subsidised by Bharat Sarkar, but his money is only for new york wasis.
Their money, their decision.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby saip » 02 Oct 2017 20:18

In a previous shooting (in Florida) Trump declared:

"“If some of those wonderful people had guns strapped … right to their waist or right to their ankle,” the presumptive GOP nominee continued, “and this son of a bitch comes out and starts shooting, and one of the people in that room happened to have it, and goes ‘boom, boom’ — you know what, that would’ve been a beautiful sight.”

He will be talking to the nation tonight.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gagan » 02 Oct 2017 21:46

58 dead, 500+ injured.
ISIS claims that the guy converted to Islam - per news on the web. But no such news on TV.
The man committed suicide after he shot people through two windows. When police breached his hotel room door, they found 10 weapons.
Police raid the man's house, some weapons found - details not yet known at this point.

News mentioned that there is a bill to allow sales of Silencers for these weapons. Currently silencers can't be sold openly - bill claims that shooting deers, hurts the ears of the shooters. The reason why most people ran away was because the HEARD gunfire. Imagine the situation if this guy's guns had been silenced.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Oct 2017 21:48

IndraD wrote:every one on CNN et al is blaming open gun policy for this, any input? One knows that you can buy guns in US but long range machine guns..they are not fighting at borders! Apparently gun lobby is very strong and they can buy politician of their choice.


It hardly matters. We are told that in the US:
1. The suicide rate is much higher among people with access to a firearm than among people without access to a firearm.
Presence of a gun in the home is a better predictor of suicide than presence of depression or drug abuse.
2. Two-thirds of the gun deaths are now suicides.
3. Over 90% of gun-suicides are whites, and are overwhelmingly male.

So the Second Amendment-justified lax gun safety laws are, apart from the inevitable collateral damage, a collective white male suicide pact. There is no talking them out of this. Of course, our attention is drawn to these mass killings, and gang warfare in US urban centers, not to these daily suicides. And even with these, as someone wrote today, if the massacre of children in the Sandy Hook school could not change anything, nothing will.

Guns in the home pose an especial risk to children. The American Pediatrics Association says it is best not to have guns in a house with children; or failing that, they must be securely locked away. (the guns, not the children). Florida went to the extent of legislating that it is illegal for physicians to talk to their patients with children about guns and safe gun practices (it took a full panel of a US circuit court to strike it down, after a smaller set of judges upheld the law).

Gun silencers (suppressors) today are regulated, but the Congress is on the verge of doing away with those regulations. Imagine now, the Las Vegas concert with the country music playing, 22,000 fans and with the killer shooting from the 32nd floor of a hotel down to the ground 300 meters away with a suppressed fully automatic weapon. Per wiki, there are suppressors for automatic weapons certified to work for 30,000 rounds. People silently falling, and only those next to them knowing something is wrong. At least today, the sound of gunshots alerted people to something is wrong and they scattered. The American voters have voted for this, who are you and I to gainsay them? There is enough public information about which politicians are bought by the gun lobby. It is not possible to combat a collective madness.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 02 Oct 2017 22:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Yagnasri » 02 Oct 2017 22:05

They have a constitutional right to bare firearms. So it is their decision. In the manner, the deep state is doing things I think this may be one of the most critical rights for mango fellows in that country. In any event, soon there may be a serious movement soon to remove that constitutional right.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Oct 2017 22:10

The recent shooting at a country music concert in Las Vegas has no impact on India-US relations. I would ask that people delete their posts about it. As it doesn’t belong here and the “Understanding the US” thread was shut down.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 02 Oct 2017 22:20

ARUN,
Very sobering analysis. Also why do people NEED multiple automatic guns?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Oct 2017 22:23

Ramana,

Why are we having this particular discussion about the US shooting? We’re Indians killed? It is an internal matter for the US. Perhaps the shooter simply didn’t like country music?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Oct 2017 22:36

"It will likely take days to identify all of the victims. "
http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vega ... er-2017-10

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 02 Oct 2017 22:38

We don't know if there were no Indian origin victims.

Just a few weeks ago some desis were at that hotel on same floor.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SwamyG » 02 Oct 2017 22:39

Mort Walker wrote:The recent shooting at a country music concert in Las Vegas has no impact on India-US relations. I would ask that people delete their posts about it. As it doesn’t belong here and the “Understanding the US” thread was shut down.

While it does not have a direct relation (or is it?); there are enough people who draw parallels between US 2nd Amendment and Indian tradition of certain communities bearing arms. We even had "Right to bear arms" thread. When drawing up Indian Constitution, several Constitutions were reviewed. In the "smaller" World that we live in, values and policies of the super power bears influence on other countries who are aligned with that country.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby saip » 02 Oct 2017 22:40

Mort Walker wrote:Ramana,

Why are we having this particular discussion about the US shooting? We’re Indians killed? It is an internal matter for the US. Perhaps the shooter simply didn’t like country music?

I do not know if Indians are killed. Do you? Lots of Indians DO visit Las Vegas and some of the dead/injured could be Indians. But that still does not make this a topic for this thread.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 02 Oct 2017 22:47

The NRA will now say ,to take out shooters with assault weapons Americans must arm themselves with RPGs!
They can then progress onto ATGMs like TOW and graduate to MBRLs,post graduate to ,arty, ATACMs and finally get their PhDs with Tomahawks ,and N-tipped BMs!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Lisa » 02 Oct 2017 22:53

Guns dont kill people. People kill people.

Please pass me an PRG.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Oct 2017 23:11

saip wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Ramana,

Why are we having this particular discussion about the US shooting? We’re Indians killed? It is an internal matter for the US. Perhaps the shooter simply didn’t like country music?

I do not know if Indians are killed. Do you? Lots of Indians DO visit Las Vegas and some of the dead/injured could be Indians. But that still does not make this a topic for this thread.


Highly unlikely if Indians were there as it was a country music concert. Many Indians visit Las Vegas and other cities like Orlando where there were mass shootings. As you said it still does not make it a topic of discussion for this thread.

I came here, this thread, looking for news and analysis on recent US oil and gas imported by India. The news had something about a recent 1.6 MB of oil received in Odisha just yesterday. Instead there is more news about Vegas.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Gagan » 02 Oct 2017 23:37

So the shipment arrived.
I was wondering, given the Doklam thing going on, and South China Sea problems going on, was the shipment safe?
I guess the suppliers guarantee safety these days.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby IndraD » 02 Oct 2017 23:41

Huge amount of oil will be imported by India from US. After SHALE revolution US is producing enough to supply oil.
A good move by India: rather than paying to ME we pay US http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 912709.cms
(then there is friction always in ME re Shia vs Sunni, Qatar vs Saudi, Turkey vs Kurds and what not...this gives India more choice and freedom).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 03 Oct 2017 00:03

SwamyG wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:The recent shooting at a country music concert in Las Vegas has no impact on India-US relations. I would ask that people delete their posts about it. As it doesn’t belong here and the “Understanding the US” thread was shut down.

While it does not have a direct relation (or is it?); there are enough people who draw parallels between US 2nd Amendment and Indian tradition of certain communities bearing arms. We even had "Right to bear arms" thread. When drawing up Indian Constitution, several Constitutions were reviewed. In the "smaller" World that we live in, values and policies of the super power bears influence on other countries who are aligned with that country.


Sir, I don't quite see the relation between US constitution that allows all citizens to bear arms, versus, civilization practices of few Indian warrior communities having arms, communities that existed before the US was founded. There is no relation between the two. Those communities fought for existence of our civilization and are still bound by those dharma.

We don't need any superpower's values and policies bearing any influence on ours. Because our policies are formulated on our value system, which I am not sure has any commonality with that of any western country. I don't know what alignment you are talking about.
Bharat has seen the dawn and dusk of many "superpowers" and empires, and hopefully, it will live long enough to see those of others. So please let's not think that we need to import the value system of the superpower of the day.

So, while the incident is tragic, let's not try to find false equivalences and relate what has happened to India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 03 Oct 2017 00:06

IndraD wrote:Huge amount of oil will be imported by India from US. After SHALE revolution US is producing enough to supply oil.
A good move by India: rather than paying to ME we pay US http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 912709.cms
(then there is friction always in ME re Shia vs Sunni, Qatar vs Saudi, Turkey vs Kurds and what not...this gives India more choice and freedom).
Hmmm, we need to build equities with our hard earned currency within the region or with the world's largest economy? Do we buy oil from the US or ask Tesla to open a factor for electric cars and solar energy technologies? We have massive oil deposits in our back yard but buy this commodity from 10,000 miles away? The choice to buy from US, Venezuela, Africa, SE Asia is always there. The Indian navy does exist to secure our supplies, if ever there is a need for such. We should invest with Shia and Sunni nations in the region. It is these investments that will allow us to build equities. Equities that matter when needed. Such as when in Yemen KSA stopped bombing to allow Indian Navy to evacuate its citizens and the Houthis also cooperated - resulting in India lives being saved.

The gulf remains the largest source of investment into India through remittances and the largest pool of NRI's.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2017 00:25

ShauryaT wrote:
IndraD wrote:Huge amount of oil will be imported by India from US. After SHALE revolution US is producing enough to supply oil.
A good move by India: rather than paying to ME we pay US http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 912709.cms
(then there is friction always in ME re Shia vs Sunni, Qatar vs Saudi, Turkey vs Kurds and what not...this gives India more choice and freedom).
Hmmm, we need to build equities with our hard earned currency within the region or with the world's largest economy? Do we buy oil from the US or ask Tesla to open a factor for electric cars and solar energy technologies? We have massive oil deposits in our back yard but buy this commodity from 10,000 miles away? The choice to buy from US, Venezuela, Africa, SE Asia is always there. The Indian navy does exist to secure our supplies, if ever there is a need for such. We should invest with Shia and Sunni nations in the region. It is these investments that will allow us to build equities. Equities that matter when needed. Such as when in Yemen KSA stopped bombing to allow Indian Navy to evacuate its citizens and the Houthis also cooperated - resulting in India lives being saved.

The gulf remains the largest source of investment into India through remittances and the largest pool of NRI's.


There are issues of trade with the US as it is the largest economy on the planet and strategic issues. That said, please do not conflate investments in new energy technologies with current energy requirements. We need both. As it stands today and for the forseable future, oil has the highest energy per unit weight for transportation. If the US can provide it, then good.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Dipanker » 03 Oct 2017 01:24

^
Wouldn't be just cheaper to buy oil from Timbuktoo, than from across the globe from US of A?

IMO we may be putting too many eggs in American basket at the cost of our own strategic independence in foreign policy.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2017 01:35

If Timbuktu offered it at a reasonable price. And if it had the world’s largest economy.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prem » 03 Oct 2017 02:25

US is discounting & matching the crude prices on delivery.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SwamyG » 03 Oct 2017 02:48

Karthik S wrote:
SwamyG wrote:While it does not have a direct relation (or is it?); there are enough people who draw parallels between US 2nd Amendment and Indian tradition of certain communities bearing arms. We even had "Right to bear arms" thread. When drawing up Indian Constitution, several Constitutions were reviewed. In the "smaller" World that we live in, values and policies of the super power bears influence on other countries who are aligned with that country.


Sir, I don't quite see the relation between US constitution that allows all citizens to bear arms, versus, civilization practices of few Indian warrior communities having arms, communities that existed before the US was founded. There is no relation between the two. Those communities fought for existence of our civilization and are still bound by those dharma.

We don't need any superpower's values and policies bearing any influence on ours. Because our policies are formulated on our value system, which I am not sure has any commonality with that of any western country. I don't know what alignment you are talking about.
Bharat has seen the dawn and dusk of many "superpowers" and empires, and hopefully, it will live long enough to see those of others. So please let's not think that we need to import the value system of the superpower of the day.

So, while the incident is tragic, let's not try to find false equivalences and relate what has happened to India.

You missed the point.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2017 11:33

US supplies are meant to reduce our dependence on Iranian oil.Why there is much angst in Teheran reg. India's genuineness and hesitation on sealing the Chahbahar port JV,etc. Iran sees as as a weak nation when it comes to diplomacy ,bowing and scraping to Uncle Sam like servile vassals.It cannot understand how strong India ,esp. under Mrs. G.has been reduced to looking to Washington to formulate much of its diplomatic stances. The Iranians for decades suffered US/Western sanctions and eventually prevailed in a compromise agreement with them reg. the N-issue.They see a nuclear power that is India,with a huge mil. capability behaving like a little scaredy fish when it should be behaving like a Great white.

Supplying India with oil also makes us more reliant upon the US for our energy,when we should in fact be less beholden to it and prefer supplies form smaller nations.oil producers with whom we can strike good bargains and never worry about sanctions and arm-twisting. Our large gas supplies form Qatar is a case in point.in addition,we've JVs with Russia for oil exploration,etc. There was a report about us going to go on a concentrated effort with the Cent. Asian states like the oil-producing giant Kazakhastan.i mentioned this aeons ago,that we should embark upon a huge dpl. offensive in Cent. Asia,where we have many old friends.The Indo-Iran-Afghan-C.Asian-Russia North-South road/rail/pipeline corridor could become a reality bringing much prosperity to the states involved and a closer understanding and cooperation between them.This will in large measure help counter China's OBOR plan,where China is the main beneficiary unlike the N-S corridor.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 03 Oct 2017 12:10

US oil cheaper than Dubai oil for India? Believe it or not, but that is true

As per a report, the US crude oil is $2 per barrel cheaper to India, compared with the most-imported Dubai crude.


http://www.financialexpress.com/economy ... ue/879715/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby putnanja » 03 Oct 2017 15:42

For too long, ME oil producers have gotten away with charging an "Asian premium" to the oil supplied to asian countries, while selling cheaper to european countries and america. Good that India is going for the best deals. Oil being one of the major foreign exchange outgoes, its important that we negotiate the best possible price from anywhere. I believe India also had contracted crude from Venezuela and Nigeria earlier when they were cheaper.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 03 Oct 2017 17:05

Congratulations to LIGO team. Both in India and US.
One of the biggest good news of India-US relationship, IMO.

Three gravitational wave detectors win 2017 Physics Nobel
(More - physics related - discussion in Physics dhaga)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 03 Oct 2017 17:38

^^^ I posted this tweet in brf ( from PM Modi more that year ago)
https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 3445856258
"Hope to move forward to make even bigger contribution with an advanced gravitational wave detector in the country."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2017 19:27

Yep.Greedy Gulfies must understand the Yanqui agenda to humiliate them ,remembering past suffering.But they still want these oligarchs to buy their weaponry so will allow them that % of wealth to do so.The ROW pays for that wealth and the arms too indirectly! Why we must zero the trade deficit with China.I told an executive today at a major SMARKET chain not to Stock madein Chin goods as wee were boycotting them.Pointed out Wellberger,supposedly an Austrian brand of cooking utensils with German lettering,actually a Chin product!

Gents please ck every item you buy including fruit,etc.Amazing how many Chin products evade the radar.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 03 Oct 2017 20:13

Garooda wrote:Their money, their decision.


We are not questioning their decision., there is a subtle point you are missing. By a mile.

It is them masquerading their business investments as donations to the unwashed masses and further the original poster's intention (an iit'ian) to point out "oh look there is a great 'donation' by the gods to the unwashed masses and they happen to be an 'iit'an' - now all of us must bow to thee".

Further point is the previous generation paid heavy price to fund our education (IIT or not) and if there is a true intention to give back - give back to ITIs., the outcome will be far better on the money spent., but of course it will not spread your fame wide.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 03 Oct 2017 20:23

ShauryaT wrote:The gulf remains the largest source of investment into India through remittances and the largest pool of NRI's.


In a decade., all of that is going to go poof. Largest source of investment into India will be coming from US/West in a decade or so. And the remittances will not be in terms of "hard cash" but in more value add ideas and technologies.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 04 Oct 2017 00:35

PM Modi must be very happy as he personally invested a lot in LIGO collaboration. He even talked about this in his "Mann Ki baat". On his trip to USA, meeting LIGO scientists was a high priority.
Along with congratulating Wess, Barish, and Thorne (who won the Nobel - As I predicted a few days ago), and the LIGO Team; Let me congratulate our PM Modi for his leadership.

More in Hindu:
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/2017-nobel-prize-for-physics-for-gravitational-waves-all-you-need-to-know/article19790936.ece
Image
Prime Minister Narendra Modi poses with a group of scientists including some of Indian-origin from the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO) after their bilateral meeting in Washington on March 31, 2016.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 04 Oct 2017 01:01

I might have shared this before, but worth sharing again..
Hats off to our PM Modi.
x-post - Let me also post a you tube video from our younger generation --A bit dated but worth watching -

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Oct 2017 08:19

US senators raise concerns about human rights, business issues with India

They asked Kenneth Ian Juster, the US ambassador-designate to India, for his views on these issues at a hearing to process his nomination, and his commitment to pursuing them if confirmed. Juster was on board with them on most issues, but so was the Indian government and civil society, he reminded them.

“India has a great tradition of tolerance,” he said to a question on religious tolerance in India, especially with regard to minorities, including Sikhs. “It’s a multi-religious country and it has the values that we have in that area. Nonetheless there are instances that occur time to time…that are troubling.”

If confirmed, Juster said, he would work with the “Indians on understanding better in seeking ways to improve that situation”.

Senate foreign affairs committee chairman Bob Corker, a Republican, led the charge in his opening remarks after approvingly prefacing the growing ties. He expressed frustration over the civil nuclear deal, “slow pace of reforms”, “barriers to Indian market”, “strict localisation” and the “unpredictable” atmosphere for foreign investment.

“Additionally,” Corker said, “space for civil society was shrinking as Hindu nationalism rises and international NGOs face undue scrutiny.” He went on to speak of human trafficking and bonded labour, about which he has been particularly critical.

Ben Cardin, the ranking member, a Democrat, raised similar concerns after stating that bilateral relations have improved. But there are “challenges”, he said and listed them out while agreeing with Corker — “commerce issues” (market access and reforms), “trafficking”, and “other human rights challenges”.

Juster, an experienced India hand, agreed with the issues raised by the senators — including about poultry and India’s continued refusal to allow American companies to sell chicken despite a WTO ruling — and assured them he would work with them.


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2017 09:38

Is this guy threatening or pushing for the deals?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pulikeshi » 04 Oct 2017 11:28

^^^ or suffers from Cephalophobia :mrgreen:
PS: what do you call fear of Octupus? Cephalophobia or Pussphobia :P

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Avarachan » 04 Oct 2017 12:42

ramana wrote:Is this guy threatening or pushing for the deals?


Sen. Presslar presented it as a regrettable statement of the facts. Regardless of his actual sincerity, anyone who knows the USA understands that American foreign policy is built on threats and bullying.

Here are his exact words:
https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... -pr/302506

So if the US were to lose a few big arms contracts in India will the relations suffer?
Yes, the Octopus will get upset and react.

How will they react?
I am very worried how they might react.  It might not be in the best public interest. We seem to be in a swamp, which President Trump wants to drain and that is how people feel about Washington—this whole money thing. This is what drives good, young people out of politics. It also results in bad public policy or public administration or bad foreign policy. And that could endanger our relation with India. We have to keep the Octopus fed.
Last edited by Avarachan on 04 Oct 2017 13:10, edited 1 time in total.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17809
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 04 Oct 2017 12:47

Yes,sign on the dotted line otherwise I will do to you what I'm doing to NoKo! Giving them "befitting replies! (on twitter!)


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