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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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UlanBatori
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Nov 2017 04:47

I share your skepticism 400%. Once confronted Cohen asking how he conveniently forgot that he was the one who claimed on his website his greatest achievement: recommending Pervez Musharraf to the US government as the best Savior of Pakistan. The guy slithered and hemmed and hawed as expected but his bubble was burst. I never got another invitation to the lunches where they invited such sbs. Oh, BTW, the place was crawling with desis crawling and fawning to Uneven. Nauseating.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 06 Nov 2017 05:04

:D priceless, UBji. Would have paid for a ticket to see the smug look get wiped on his stupid face when the mirror was shown to him. Doesn't surprise me that there hordes of desis kissing up to this oiseuale SC. Self-promoting jokers, a good portion of them..couldn't care less about reading Cohen's background or his paki-loving POV, and probably see nothing wrong with any of that even if they did.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Hari Seldon » 06 Nov 2017 09:25

periaswamy wrote:What is all this new found love for the anti-India scumbags at the Brookings Institution? Why are the mofos from the Brookings Institution allowed anywhere near govt. agencies like NITI Aayog? What next, an advisor to the MEA?

Brookings scumbag to be part of PM's economic advisory council


I'd interacted with this person a few times both professionally and socially in the 2009-2014 timeframe.

She and Hubby were die-hard congressis then. Hubby even preferred and referred to pappu as Rahul "ji" quite openly.

I recall a particular instance in late 2013 when an ET poll showed the BJP might (gasp!) get upto 200 seats and these two were horrified at the prospect.

I now hear she's turned a new leaf and is all pro-Modi aajkal. How genuine the transformation, time will tell. But I do hope it is genuine and not yet another trojan in our policy-proposing/making/vetting/influencing circles...

Onlee.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 06 Nov 2017 09:36

Hari Seldon wrote:I now hear she's turned a new leaf and is all pro-Modi aajkal. How genuine the transformation, time will tell. But I do hope it is genuine and not yet another trojan in our policy-proposing/making/vetting/influencing circles...

Onlee.


You mean one of those "career nationalists" whom Jaitley alluded to in his interview with Arnab?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby SSridhar » 06 Nov 2017 12:44

Hari Seldon, looks like a clear case of opportunism to me.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 06 Nov 2017 15:41

Ditto.

Thanks HS for that anecdote.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 06 Nov 2017 19:16

Image

:shock:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 06 Nov 2017 21:45

Tweet by some lutyens-related underling who works for Brookings-India.

@shrutigodbole China currently the single most consequential strategic partner for US, India will be in the near future - Gen. Allen @BrookingsIndia


It is clear that one of the main goals of brookings India is to let their vermin slither into positions of influence or close to them in due course, with a lot of willing Indian sepoys working as rentboys for Brookings. Apparently, being a "strategic partner to the US" is considered some sort of a good thing? I mean, we can all see what has happened to other "strategic partners" of the US in the region, can't we?

Indian position is to work with the US on specific issues in a transactional manner, and AFAICT that has not changed, but it sure looks like there are a bunch of babus in New Dehi who would like to work with the adversary, going by the people who are spouting the american line on Indian issues, be it Rohingyas, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, or Maldives, and their closeness to Lutyens.

If China is US's strategic partner, and given China's hostility to India, it would be a laugh to pretend that India can have any sort of swing-state advantage with either country -- swinging between the two will not create influence even in India's own neighbourhood.

Just imagine the consequence of India dealing with Myanmar in the way that the US and its Indian sepoys in think tanks like Brookings/Takshashila would like it to. When the next hard-right islamist regime comes to power in Bangladesh, India will have two hostile states on its border, instead of one.

Already, looks like Brookings drones are getting TV spots in Rajya Sabha TV, so Brookings penetration is happening rather fast.

This is the kind of Stephen-Cohenish horse manure the brookings scumbags are pushing when it comes to China -- almost like some Chinese bozo from Global Times dictated it to them.

Significant forces are pushing for peace and cooperation between Beijing and New Delhi, says @KPethiyagoda.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr ... _content=2



Cultivating awareness of this history amongst the publics of each country may provide one small step toward mitigating tensions, in contexts where policymakers wish to do so.


Maybe this genius from Brookings India can explain how a totalitarian state like china would allow "cultivating awareness of the history among the publics" if it clashes with Xi's motives for dominating the region, not to mention his intentions of furthering control of the chinese media even more than it is now? Two-bit cretins being allowed to push their agenda in New Delhi just because they are associated with an american think tank...one would think such things would stop under this new dispensation, but apparently not.

All that will happen is that the US's strategic partner China will provide bylines that will be spread by these scumbags at Brookings, taking advantage of the free press in India, more than it is happening now anyway.
Last edited by periaswamy on 06 Nov 2017 22:11, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kumarn » 06 Nov 2017 21:59

Hari Seldon wrote:
periaswamy wrote:What is all this new found love for the anti-India scumbags at the Brookings Institution? Why are the mofos from the Brookings Institution allowed anywhere near govt. agencies like NITI Aayog? What next, an advisor to the MEA?

Brookings scumbag to be part of PM's economic advisory council


I'd interacted with this person a few times both professionally and socially in the 2009-2014 timeframe.



She and Hubby were die-hard congressis then. Hubby even preferred and referred to pappu as Rahul "ji" quite openly.

I recall a particular instance in late 2013 when an ET poll showed the BJP might (gasp!) get upto 200 seats and these two were horrified at the prospect.

I now hear she's turned a new leaf and is all pro-Modi aajkal. How genuine the transformation, time will tell. But I do hope it is genuine and not yet another trojan in our policy-proposing/making/vetting/influencing circles...

Onlee.



Her father is already there. Remember? Head of JIC, i guess...the one who did the naga accord.

periaswamy
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 06 Nov 2017 23:30

so various scions of the babucracy slither their way into positions of influence generation after generation...the next generation of faceless babus with make-or-break powers in policymaking, and only accountable under strong leaders and from the looks of it, not even then. how nice.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 07 Nov 2017 05:46

^^ Or maybe following the maxim- Doesn't matter what colour the cat is as long as it catches the mice.

Of course letting the cat colour the matter is a different matter altogether...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Garooda » 08 Nov 2017 02:17

Manish_P wrote:
Philip wrote:There is nothing great in the US offer,in fact what it really wants are hundreds of thousand of Indian troops,etc. "carrying the white Man's burden" as we did in WW1 and WW2!

Manish_P wrote:Ah but it's fine if we carry the white Russians burden eh
:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Garooda » 08 Nov 2017 02:31

Karthik S wrote:Image :shock:

Lone Teachers Union Wolf all wound up by local politicos?


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 08 Nov 2017 05:51

Campaign to malign Indus Valley civilization history continues to suit different narrative in CA :

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

Humble request to guru's residing in CA to protest to this. Need to bring out truth and expose wrong stuff :

http://www.southasianhistoriesforall.org/about-us/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 09 Nov 2017 07:26


periaswamy
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 09 Nov 2017 07:39

During his confirmation hearing last month, the new US Ambassador-designate to India, Ken Juster said that human rights and religious freedom would be one of his priority areas during his assignment in New Delhi.


Hope this american buttmuncher of an ambassador is put in his place.

Indian recipients of the so-called grants must be forced to submit to the Indian govt. exact details of their expenses. No wonder most of the planet hates the american mofos -- with all the racism and bigotry in their country, they have the nerve to preach to India about "religious freedom".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 09 Nov 2017 19:22

Small note of interest: Falguni Patel and Jerry Shi have both won.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2017 19:42

Yes, "every court must have its (diplomatic ) clown".So Donald the Trump has sent us "the Jester",like a comic book cartoon! If he's going to ask us about 'human rights',
let's remind him about Camp Got no, Abu Bahrain and the US support for ISIS.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby salaam » 09 Nov 2017 20:23

JE Menon wrote:Small note of interest: Falguni Patel and Jerry Shi have both won.


So did the SardarJi from Hoboken :)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/nyre ... halla.html

Edison/Falguni News:
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2 ... elect.html

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 10 Nov 2017 10:19

Trump has clearly shown that China is far more important to it than India.Look at how he "behaved" in Beijing! He was given a gift forhis good behaviour of $250B worth of orders ,where Boeing is the main benficiary.So much for the great Quadilateral,etc.,etc.

So where does this bonhomie and kowtowing by the Donald himself to the Great Leader XI Gins leave India and Mr. Modi? Holding the candle what? :rotfl:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... to-beijing
Chinese media hails success of Trump's 'pilgrimage ' to Beijing
State news outlets herald visit in which US president impressed by showing respect and behaving well with Xi Jinping
US president Donald Trump attends a state dinner hosted by China’s President Xi Jinping in the Great Hall of the People in Beijing.

Tom Phillips in Beijing
Friday 10 November 2017 03.04 GMT Last modified on Friday 10 November 2017 03.05 GMT
Terrific. Tremendous. An extraordinary few days. Such was Donald Trump’s characterisation of his pomp-filled sojourn in Beijing. :mrgreen:

Chinese newspapers and academics seconded those emotions on Friday morning, as the US president jetted off on the next leg of his Asian tour.
Trump's 'no questions' press conference in China slammed by former media staff
Read more
“China should be happy,” said Chen Daoyin, a Shanghai-based political scientist, calling the trip a diplomatic triumph for President Xi Jinping.
“The leader of the world’s number one power has just made a pilgrimage to him - this is naturally how all Chinese people will see it.”


“Trump has pleasantly surprised many who a year ago were deeply worried about a trade war given his harsh campaign rhetoric,” Chen Weihua, the deputy editor of the China Daily’s US edition, wrote in his appraisal of the billionaire’s “state visit-plus”.

“Trump has also surprised many for his relatively good handling of US-China relations, including forging a close working and personal relationship with President Xi Jinping.”

Only last year, Fudan University scholar Shen Dingli had suggested closing the Chinese embassy in Washington in protest at Trump’s engagement with Taiwan.
After this week’s visit Shen was in a forgiving mood. “More than a success,” the international relations expert said of Trump’s tour.
“Trump behaved moderately [and] respectfully ... He showed respect to China’s leader and China’s culture ... Xi has made Trump a better president.”

The front-pages of China’s Communist party controlled press were plastered with large and identical photographs of the leaders of the world’s top two economies with headlines commemorating how “comrade Xi” and his capitalist caller had agreed “to give full play to the idea of head-of-state diplomacy”.

An article in the party’s official mouthpiece, the People’s Daily, recounted scenes from a Thursday night farewell banquet at the opulent Mao-era theatre used to dazzle foreign heads of state. “The Great Hall of People’s Golden Hall looked resplendent and magnificent for this great gathering of distinguished guests,” the newspaper raved.

“Xi Jinping pointed out that while there is a vast ocean between China and the United States, geographical distance has never prevented these two great nations from coming together ... As an old Chinese adage goes: ‘No distance, not even remote mountains and vast oceans can ever prevent people with perseverance from reaching their destination.’
*(Yeah,XI Gins' ambitions to conquer the world!)

The party’s internationally-focused media outlets were equally ebullient.
“Trump has softened his tone toward China on the trade issue,” an editorial in the state-run Global Times newspaper enthused, pointing to the president’s controversial claim that China was not to blame for the trade deficit.

The China Daily claimed the trip had seen “precious progress” that would “go a long way to anchoring the all-important, yet sometimes volatile, Sino-US relationship”.
Harassment and house arrest in China as Trump has 'beyond terrific' time

As Trump flew onto Vietnam, he trumpeted a “very productive” visit to China but faced criticism for failing to stand up for human rights, press freedom or even American workers during his time in Beijing.

One critic claimed Beijing had played the US president “like a fiddle”. Another tweeted: “Trump can spin all he wants. His fealty to Xi Jinping over the last 48 hours will rank among his biggest foreign policy mistakes to date.” :rotfl:

Nonsense, said Shen, arguing that it was Trump’s job “to generate jobs, not enemies” by challenging Beijing over issues such as human rights or the South China Sea. “He is doing great.”

Additional reporting by Wang Zhen

periaswamy
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 10 Nov 2017 10:24

US capitulation to China is complete now -- North Korea has been solved. Go home everyone, nothing to see here....

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 10 Nov 2017 11:22

Actually trade still will remain a source of friction unless there is a big movement there.

China cannot just wish it away because of a *successful* visit. However what it does do is buy China something before Trump returns back to the topic. By that time China would have changed more facts on the strategic ground around Asia and especially South China sea.

India has to chart its own path co-operating with anyone at anytime where our interests align and that includes China, US and Russia.

Heck, on certain issues we have teamed up with the Bakistan in the past.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 10 Nov 2017 11:33

US and Trump's bluff on the topic of North Korea has been called, which about leaves the US's credibility with its "asian partners" lower than it was a few weeks ago. China is going to lead the dance here, with the US following china's lead with respect to North Korea...but that is not much of a change from the past 3 decades. This can only mean China will get a lot more aggressive in its neighbourhood in the short to medium term. Next time Trump and US rattle their sabers, they will not be taken seriously.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 10 Nov 2017 11:39

That US is a power in decline even while it remains the strongest is know to all who follow the foreign policy.

I will be more interested in knowing what China has put on the table to close the China-US trade deficit. Afterall what is Trump going to tout when he tries to get re-elected in 2020.

A few Boeings are not going to do much on that count. If no major moves happen on the ground to bridge the trade gap I expect Trump to be back to his old stance in about an year from now i.e. say by 2019 beginning.

But of course China would have done much to expand and consolidated it's position in Asia in the interim.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 10 Nov 2017 15:02

Very important speech by Trump in Danang, on trade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLrttMJj7mo

If he means what he says, and I think he does, we are about to enter into a new era as far as global trade is concerned.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 10 Nov 2017 18:11

How fast the quadrilateral tie-up moves will indicate how serious is US in protecting Japan and India's interest. Australians are the original outlaws, they do not, should not and indeed will not matter. They will be the first to lick chinese a s s.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 10 Nov 2017 19:46

This is why I' be been advocating an India-centric security architecture for the Indo-Asian-Far East region.During the heyday of NAM, our refusal to join either bloc brought us huge respect from across the globe even though we were not a major mil. power.That respect and leadership reached its peak in '71 when Mrs.G dismembered Pak.Rajiv maintained this reputation with India scotching the coup in the Maldives and sending the IPKF to SL and taming the LTTE. Narasimha Rao rescued us from financial distress sfter Weepy Singh brought us to flatland.
More later.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vips » 10 Nov 2017 21:44

We do not have to live in a fool's paradise.Less said about NAM the better, we ended up being no where and were the classic Dhobi ka kutta - Na ghar kaa na ghat kaa. Moral grandstanding is a fool's errand. Only way the world will pay attention to you is bulk up your economic might (Which China did), have enough $$ to beef up your military and then see how your interests are taken care of.
I am simply amazed at how unpractical the Japanese are. They should shed their pacifist attitude and go Nuclear. They have the money and technology. Just an announcement from them to build three or four 65-100 K tons size aircraft carriers and you would see the chini lizards shit in their pants and become earnestly reasonable.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby periaswamy » 10 Nov 2017 22:06

Building a large navy is expensive and since India failed to build up its Navy or armed forces under the rule of the congress termites, there is additional time pressure. So, in the short to medium, India needs naval alliances to keep china in check w.r.t. naval challenges. Being openly allied with multiple power poles simultaneously gives more leverage and options than "non alignment", which is the strategic equivalent of drifting up a certain creek without a paddle.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 10 Nov 2017 22:58

JE Menon wrote:Very important speech by Trump in Danang, on trade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLrttMJj7mo

If he means what he says, and I think he does, we are about to enter into a new era as far as global trade is concerned.


Thanks for posting.

The meat of it comes around 14 mins 09 sec.

If what he says is to be considered significant to any degree whatsoever, it must be interpreted as applying (99.99% of it) to China. He said none of this (in public) at Beijing but chose to state it at the APEC conference in Vietnam.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 10 Nov 2017 23:14

^RD: I saw that part as catered to the home audience, to his base. This is the leader of the western world justifying its need to close ranks and consolidate to favor race-religion-region-wealth inequality-values-systems of the west and against globalization at the cost of long term economic loss to the west. This is also a slap to those elites in the US, who in Tump's view have lost the rationale for all the three letter treaties, with an America first undeclared policy. You are well aware of that process.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 11 Nov 2017 01:30

RD

+101 AoA

The whole speech was crafted very very well. The reference to, and repeated emphasis on, "Indo-Pacific" during the course of the speech, the pointing out of Vietnam's history 40AD onwards and its independence, and of course the part where he basically outlined his approach to world trade. Of course, it was targeted to the home electorate as well (and why not, they elected him constitutionally - unless one is going to use the "Modi got only 31% of the vote" type nonsense). His aggressive off-the-cuff against some idiot who was laughing, the repeated stress that the times when the US was taken for a trade ride are over, all that is indicative of some serious measures about to be announced.

I will not be in the least bit surprised if we begin to see a policy-based dilution of US adherence to the WTO and possible imposition of tariffs on Chinese goods, or a time-bound process to get the surplus removed. Others will learn and follow.

I believe it will go down as one of those landmark addresses in history although only after about 20 years because the oiseaule media/analyst community in the US is dominated by a bunch of highly partisan ****** for the most part, and they control the media narrative anyways.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Zynda » 11 Nov 2017 01:49

Although most of the statements were made wrt China, this particular one is applicable to us as well. (MII agenda)

"We will confront the destructive practices of forcing business to surrender their technology to the state and forcing them in to joint ventures in exchange for market access."

I don't see how MoD/GoI will approve any deal with LM for SE F-16s if reduced or no ToT is offered. All these ultimately may prove a blessing in disguise.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 11 Nov 2017 02:03

JEM, good observations, and from your mouth to YHWH's ears!

On a side note, I am not as sanguine as some other observers here about the term "Indo-Pacific" being brought into vogue by the US strategic community. Yes, on the face of it, it suggests recognition of India as a strategic player in the former "Asia Pacific". But the other side of the coin is that it dilutes the "Indian Ocean"... unmistakably and unarguably our property... by extending it to the "Pacific" and notionally opening it up to encroachment from Pacific powers. Let's see. In the end it's vessels and firepower and brave men who count, not monikers.

Loved your articles on KSA (and on Pidi) by the way. What do you make of Arihant P's opinion in Swarajya that India is overwhelmingly likely to suffer from MBS' actions, both as a result of oil shock and increased jihadi terrorism? Please answer in the KSA thread if improper here.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 11 Nov 2017 02:11

ShauryaT wrote:^RD: I saw that part as catered to the home audience, to his base. This is the leader of the western world justifying its need to close ranks and consolidate to favor race-religion-region-wealth inequality-values-systems of the west and against globalization at the cost of long term economic loss to the west. This is also a slap to those elites in the US, who in Tump's view have lost the rationale for all the three letter treaties, with an America first undeclared policy. You are well aware of that process.


Shaurya, you are probably right. I hope, as JEM says, that it will translate into implemented policies sooner rather than later.

The US strategic community has definitely cottoned on to the Chinese game of "pitbull-izing" rogue states as a means of leverage, by supplying them (among other things) with nuclear weapons. When it was Pakistan being pitbull-ized, the US pundits (under heavy Kissingerian indoctrination) chose to believe the target was India and only India, and they were OK with that. 16 years in AfPak made them doubt this conclusion. Now the antics of Pyongyang have confirmed their worst fears.

Can Trump sarkar use economic and trade policies to hit Xi where it hurts, punishing him not just for the stated infractions that Trump brought up at the APEC conference, but for the as-yet unstated game it is playing by propping up Pakistan and NoKo as plausibly deniable, instability-inducing proxies?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 11 Nov 2017 04:47

No.
No one has experience in Economic warfare dur ing peace

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 11 Nov 2017 05:00

^I don't understand. Would you not consider, for example, the imposition of economic sanctions as a form of economic warfare? This happens often during "peace" as defined by lack of overt military conflict.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ashish raval » 11 Nov 2017 05:30

If Us brings up issue of trade imbalance we shall say that world and and India is giving privilege to US by stocking up US dollars and using it for trading purposes. Basically we are exporting tonnes of cloths and services to get printed paper so that we can but petrol from middle east. If India starts backing up currency with Gold it may be added to reserve basket too. We can do partial backing in fractions of 10 percent or so. We shall be just trading or bartering in goods where we can with most nations and remove USD component from the trade. Donald trump perhaps does not understand economics well to realise that if world stops using dollar from trading they shall be doomed..



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