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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Apr 2018 01:36

ramana wrote:Why don't you guys start a thread "Living out side India Cultural ramifications"


Too many pitfalls in such a topic. Now that GDF is closed and BGR forum is in place, that would be a better place for it. Best to close this line of discussion in this thread.

IMHO onlee.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Apr 2018 01:38

ShauryaT wrote:New materials and modes are always welcome. Being involved on the ground my biggest competition for mind space is Nintendo and Harry Potter! Depending on the age group new material is welcome and needed!!

Arguing the other side now... The poetry of Kalidasa is mind-blowing and timeless. Borderline erotic too, which is what makes it perfect for teenage texts. You have to really begin to grasp Samskrtam to begin to appreciate it, it will sound utterly ridiculous in Angrezi etc.

Try translating
TushArasanghAta shilAthaleshvapi and u c what I mean. Won't put down the verse preceding that because it would be borderline blasphemy and I have no wish to be born in the Indus Valley unlike our friend AP here. :mrgreen:

For many of the other stories (HarisChandra, Nala-Damayanti, Shakunthala) I wonder if the moral/ethical aspects won't come through just as well if set in the 21st century. There is a Bay area guy who worked for PIXAR, who has developed a very interesting cast of characters, totally "modern" renderings of Ramayana, MB etc. The pointy headgear is still there, but rendered in very modern styles.

There is an Usha Nair(?) in UK who has been trying "modern" portrayals in children's books as well. Very contemporary names for the Avataras etc.

*******************
(revert to :(( ) Unfortunately that space of modern interpretation is being occupied almost totally by destructive portrayals. The other din I had to sit through a rendering of the end of the MB where the PAndavas are proceeding to Houristan. They are asked to not look back at what happens to anyone. Draupadi falls down, and laments that not a single one of the 5 "husbands" that she had to suffer, will even pause to turn and look at her, much less help.

This portrayal was done, not by some CPM activist (then again it could be) but a professional artiste who was brought up by none other than the Royal Family of Tiruvithamkoor, near said Bangalore. It's not that the performance was not good, it was a professional artiste after all, what sickened me was the choice of particular theme. There are very few inspiring themes chosen, if artistes want to come across as "intellectual". The only other choice is go 400% airhead, as one recently did. Absolutely super performance by Aditi Bhagwat (dancer) and Sruti Someone (violinist) and some guy (who cares?) Theme? raw Bollywood from 1960s to 2000s. No brain needed at all.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ShauryaT » 06 Apr 2018 07:46

>>The poetry of Kalidasa is mind-blowing and timeless.

If the only work I ever read in Sanskrit is Kalidasa's Meghdoot then I have been promised it would be worth it. Let us see, how much more grey matter has to come in before I get to it.

Sorry ramana, last one from me.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Primus » 06 Apr 2018 16:43

ricky_v wrote:The point of having a fantasy-industrial-complex is to serve as more than a medium for societal and cultural constructs rather than religion purposes for communicating with newer initiates. The age of the initiate is unimportant to the people in charge of peddling the particular fantasy; though it must serve as something that the consumer strives to attain, that he may feel is particularly lacking in his daily life. There must be some sort of payoff for the layman, either spiritual,artistic or scholarly, and this is where our own FIC lacks.

Why do desis discuss almost feverishly about the avengers, or any other random made up fantasy world, when they can do the same with our own hero worshiping chronicles.Do you know of any younger populace who would discuss the physical construct of Kishkinda or even any of the Janapadas rather than say that of Asgard or Rivendell? The problems are many in following our current FIC productions, they are tacky, they have no enlightenment for the viewer and worst of all, they instill repugnant aspirations in the watchers. Why are there no fantasy books that are set in our supposed golden ages, that serve as a template to our societal proclivities during that time? Flooding markets vernacular and all with such a scheme would revitalize many of us, what are LOTR and ASOIAF but europe of a bygone era, with their views on society,hierarchy, race etc. The success of even mediocre books like Meluha Chronicles clearly attest to the vast market for such.(The author should have made up characters, reading a text where your God cusses freely turned me and many others off the text.)
At the end of the day, we are all hero-worshipers, but our own current FIC produces no hero worth emulating and the older manuals are tampered with to such an extent that their consumption in modern form promotes secularism more ,than a pride in the past, whereas the foreign FIC with their plethora of inter-sectional new age heroes for all and sundry peddle their fantasy more successfully.


I was quite pleasantly surprised to find a plethora of graphic novels on the Indian epics. I am a big fan of this genre (Watchmen, Wool etc) and was quite fascinated by the stuff now coming out of some publishing houses in India. Granted, there is some degree of discomfort when the stories of our faith are presented merely as tales of fantasy, but at least it is better than having nothing of comparable nature. They classify and section it with Greek and other mythology and it is disturbing that the story of Krishna while titled 'Defender of Dharma' is categorized as 'Young Adult Fantasy Fiction'.

They are not cheap, but IMHO definitely worth a look. I've bought several of these for the youngsters in the family here and they actually enjoyed it quite a bit. They are much cheaper to buy in India itself than from here.

The graphics, production and art work is very well done, on par with anything produced by Western publishers, the story is authentic and true to the 'original'.

Worth a look: http://www.campfiregraphicnovels.com/mythology.htm

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ricky_v » 06 Apr 2018 17:54

Primus wrote:
ricky_v wrote:snipped


I was quite pleasantly surprised to find a plethora of graphic novels on the Indian epics. I am a big fan of this genre (Watchmen, Wool etc) and was quite fascinated by the stuff now coming out of some publishing houses in India. Granted, there is some degree of discomfort when the stories of our faith are presented merely as tales of fantasy, but at least it is better than having nothing of comparable nature. They classify and section it with Greek and other mythology and it is disturbing that the story of Krishna while titled 'Defender of Dharma' is categorized as 'Young Adult Fantasy Fiction'.

They are not cheap, but IMHO definitely worth a look. I've bought several of these for the youngsters in the family here and they actually enjoyed it quite a bit. They are much cheaper to buy in India itself than from here.

The graphics, production and art work is very well done, on par with anything produced by Western publishers, the story is authentic and true to the 'original'.

Worth a look: http://www.campfiregraphicnovels.com/mythology.htm

Thank you as usual for the pointers Primus ji, though as others have pointed out, maybe we should move this line of discussion to BGF.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 08 Apr 2018 22:05

video

https://twitter.com/Horuspdf/status/982694036199890946

US defence attache to TSP, probably under DUI , runs a red light and hits two people on a motorbike, killing one.
he has been released due to diplomatic status.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 08 Apr 2018 22:14

DUI in pak? I thought alcohol is not sold in pak.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 08 Apr 2018 22:47

well it does not apply to elite restaurants, 5* hotels I think and certainly not to diplomatic compounds.

maybe he wasnt DUI just careless, distracted or confused.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 09 Apr 2018 07:51

Karthik S wrote:DUI in pak? I thought alcohol is not sold in pak.


It is..to non-muslims and they need to have special permits. Of course, these permits are a roaring business.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 09 Apr 2018 08:41

Kashi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:DUI in pak? I thought alcohol is not sold in pak.

It is..to non-muslims and they need to have special permits. Of course, these permits are a roaring business.

In this case being diplomats, they have their special shops to purchase duty free daru. They are not subject to the local daru laws.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 09 Apr 2018 09:11

X Posted from the India-US relations: News and Discussions IV thread to the Indian Foreign Policy, Iran News & Discussions, 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive, CPEC and Terroristan threads.

Interview of U.S. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for South and Central Asia, Alice Wells, by politician Subramanian Swamy’s daughter Suhasini Haidar for the Hindu.

US, far from being reluctantly acquiescent about Indian investment in the development of Chabahar Port in their archenemy Iran is actually “deeply appreciative of the Indian efforts to use Chabahar to provide alternatives to Afghanistan to open up a channel to Central Asia”:

Tell us about your meetings in Delhi, both bilateral and trilateral with Japan.

The momentum to this relationship is anchored by the two policies that govern our approach to the region: the U.S. South Asia policy and the Indo-Pacific policy. In the South Asia policy, the U.S. is working very aggressively to stabilise the situation and work towards a peaceful resolution that involves unprecedented engagement with Pakistan, and one in which India is playing an essential role as a net provider of assistance which is very different from a few years ago. On the Indo-Pacific side, that’s where the ambitions of the relationship lie. Our shared security interests are to see that the region doesn’t fall prey to some of the predatory practices being seen in the South China Sea, and how to offer alternatives.

On Afghanistan… the fact that this region has no regional trade is noteworthy and until we resolve that core conflict and open up the east and west, the potential for South Asia is not going to be achieved. We are deeply appreciative of the Indian efforts to use Chabahar to provide alternatives to Afghanistan to open up a channel to Central Asia. And we need to be creative in the absence of peace to ensure that Afghanistan can stabilise and grow.

Are you saying that the Chabahar route, with the port owned by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (IRGC-owned Khatam Al-Anbia) meets with the U.S.’s approval?

The standard set for Chabahar is that the deals should not benefit IRGC members, that’s for sanctions not to be imposed, and for business deals to go through. The legislation originally passed (JCPOA) has a specific carve-out for Chabahar and that’s an acknowledgment of the necessary role of giving land-locked Afghanistan access and alternatives as it seeks to build its economy. We have seen with the shipments of wheat that India has really helped to open up trade with Afghanistan including air corridors. Its been striking that Afghanistan-Pakistan trade has declined 50% in the last year. India has provided options, and Afghanistan now needs the support of India and Central Asia.


Suhasini Haidar reminds the Alice Wells that US citizens were also killed in the 26/11 Mumbai Mohammadden Terrorism attack sponsored by State Actors of the Punjabi Uniformed Jihadis of the Military Dominated Deep State of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, that 10 years have passed since 26/11 and that US President Donald Trump’s New Year Tweet and new US South Asia Strategy on Afghanistan has signified more sound then fury. The RaRa US brigade that infests BRF from time to time may particularly note:

You were in Pakistan last week for several days. Are there any indications yet that Pakistan is taking action on terror?

As General (Joseph) Votel has testified, we see initial constructive steps and we want to build on that. Our conversation with Pakistan is about the unique influence it has and the unique levers it has in helping to shape Taliban expectations and to convince the Taliban to walk through what we all recognise is an open door. Those conversations are ongoing. We are not walking away from Pakistan, but we do not believe that yet we have seen the kind of sustainable and irreversible steps that are required to really change the situation on the ground.


Yet here in New Delhi, it looks as if since that tweet from President Trump on New Years day, India’s hopes from the U.S.’s new policy have not been realised. Terrorists targeting India like Hafiz Saeed and Masood Azhar still roam openly, issue statements, with no specific action taken against them except what is mandated by the U.N. Do you still think there is reason to hope that will change?

I was heartened by the press comments by General Bajwa where he said things like the ‘state must have the monopoly on violence’, and there is ‘no role for non-state actors’, and that ‘Pakistan cant be a normal states if there are extremist groups’. Those are extremely positive statements and now I think the challenge is to see them implemented. We are certainly in a very good faith conversation with Pakistan. We want the policy to succeed and for Pakistan to be both law enforced and economically secure country. We understand Pakistan is also a victim of terror and more than 400 civilians were killed by the TTP or other groups like AQ and ISIS operating in Pakistan. I always say that terrorists who attack Pakistan are also enemies of the United States. We have an agenda, we believe we have shared interests and Pakistan has a stake in a stable Afghanistan. So how do we make that calculus work?

But you’re basing all this on General Bajwa’s statement… this year marks 10 years since the Mumbai attacks, and there have been ten years of such statements. So what gives you hope that this time is any different from the past?

I think the South Asia strategy and the stance of the U.S. administration gives me hope. This is a strategy that has been implemented with greater force. It notes that this is a different world, and it is no longer acceptable or understandable to rely on proxy forces. And we are prepared, as we demonstrated with the suspension of assistance, to act on our concern when we don’t see sufficient action taken. The Trump administration has gone into territory not been entered before by the U.S. and that sends a very powerful message. We have a leadership role to play to close the chapter on proxy forces in South Asia. There is an urgency to this because of ISIS. We see ISIS in Afghanistan consists largely of Afghans and Pakistanis who have switched over from other terrorist organisations, but imagine if an insurgency became a nihillistic campaign that recognised no borders. We can’t afford the conflict and the ideological stew there to metastasise.

Yet eight months into the U.S. South Asia strategy, four months after CSF and FMF funding cuts, FATF action, IMF squeeze, the designation of Hafiz Saeed’s party MML as a Foreign Terrorist Organisation, there’s seems no impact on Pakistan actions. What are the markers that Pakistan should take, for the U.S., and possibly India to acknowledge they have taken some action?

We fully share your concern over Hafiz Saeed. He is a terrorist, with money on his head, he should be in prison, not on the streets, and we have concerns about his ability to operate freely..... [pause] This is a process, and while I know that’s not a satisfactory answer for a country that has suffered significant acts of terrorism emanating from Pakistan.

The U.S. has suffered as well, Americans died in the Mumbai attacks….

Absolutely…but this is a process. And it is a serious process, and even our Indian friends recognise the seriousness of purpose of the United States in adopting and implementing its strategy. So I would say, bear with us, this isn’t the end of our diplomatic game. We are continuously engaging in Pakistan because we do see the need for change.

Is there a timeline? Or a point at which the U.S.’s patience runs out?

We are evaluating as we go, in consultations with our allies and friends. But this is a process.

What are the markers of what you would like to see Pakistan do in the next few months?

I think Pakistan knows what it can do to change the calculus and to disrupt and make it harder for Taliban or family members [other groups] to take advantage of Pakistan’s territory. That isn’t a mystery. There will soon be a new civilian leadership in Pakistan, and we will see how the new government will take steps to demonstrate to the international community that Pakistan is serious about curbing terror financing and money laundering.

Again, there we have seen some positive steps: whether it is on the (LeT-owned) charities, whether it is the executive order designating U.N. terrorists under the Anti-terrorism Act, this is what we are going to be looking for. I believe that the international consensus was that the greylist was necessary as these were not irreversible actions, but I have to say, in my consultations in Islamabad, including among the business community, there is a lot of support for moving forward on terror. This is in Pakistan’s interest, as a big country that needs foreign investment, the way to attract it is to have a stellar reputation and stellar record. So many people I met welcomed the double-edged sword of FATF.


From The Hindu:

Yet to see irreversible steps for change on the ground in Pakistan, says U.S. envoy Alice Wells

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 15 Apr 2018 10:19

can someone educate me why central america is so poor and chaotic that people stream out with nothing , just to reach the US border ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/14/amer ... index.html

south america is relatively stable, but central america seems to be in perpetual chaos.

china's economic rise in contrast has benefited all around them in east asia, as did korea , taiwan and japan's rise benefit china

with the richest country in the world nearby why is the US unable to raise the stds in central america ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 15 Apr 2018 10:30

^^ Then who'll man all those Taco Bells and McDonalds? :)

Seriously, I think the US has interfered a lot in this area (Contras in Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, etc.) over the decades that most of these places have seen no stability. Costa Rica and Belize (the latter due to British influence, no doubt) were the only exceptions. NAFTA probably didn't help as well, though its impact was limited to Mexico.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Y. Kanan » 15 Apr 2018 11:28

I hope the US's current antics in Syria have finally made our policy elites see the light. The US has no intention of helping us with Pakistani terror, and will continue to turn a blind eye. They will continue to fund the Paki govt as the US has more interest in seeing India destabilized than in cleaning up Pakistan. The empire simply cannot change its basic character and institutional hostility to India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 15 Apr 2018 12:44

Maintaining a permanent underclass incl androids to serve needs of ubermensch is a recurring theme in scifi dystopia stories incl bladerunner

As the most advanced country in world perhaps usa is the best current exemplar of this meme ... domestic underclass and ready magazine of more warm bodies in central america they can let in as many or as less as needed and kick them out too if not needed anymore

A cruder take on the old H1 meme

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 15 Apr 2018 14:04

Reappraising India-US Ties - Admiral ( retd ) Arun Prakash

Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2018 14:43

Well said by the good admiral! Plus those Russian advanced weapon systems came with NO strings attached, no intrusive agreements to bind us to the " Lord of Mordor"!

Our folly has been to discard the once " friendship prices" relationship with the Russians for G-to-G agreements as in the past , when various items were offered to us on a privilged basis. We now want Russia to compete on commercial terms with global arms majors.Fair enough, but we now pay the extra buck in hard cash unlike as in the past.

Marquee products from the West like Rafales are sucking the juice out of the def. budget.The US insistencs that we shoulc buy either one of its antiques, the F-16 or F-18, when other Western fighters ard available , plus warning of sanctions if we buy the S-400 system from Russia, smacks of a racist,arrogant and neo- imperialist attitude towards the world's largest nation and democracy. India can well do without American cast- offs and choose our requirements from any nation east or west as is our right.

There is also another point to understand.In the past we did very well with rugged, easy to operate and very easy on the purse weapon systems, having been denied the best of the West during the Cold War. While we definitely require in many cases the best available tech. if affordable, it isn't possible given our eco situ, small defence budget, to buy anything price regatdless as if it was from a Sotheby's catalogue and we were an oil-rich potentate.As the former chief has said, a strat. relationship should provide us with a deep improvement of core tech in defence.He mentioned engine tech. as one example and listed the many sophisticated systems and tech that Russia was providing us with .Austin in a post elsewhere has put up pics of a whole range of Ru aero-engines while we languish trying to producd even one , the Kaveri! What would a nation with common-sense prefer to choose, a 5th-gen aircraft like the SU-57 accompanied with its tech in a JV ,or a 4th-gen. antique 40 yrs old? That bird also being discarded by the US and almost all its allies for a new 5th-gen bird, even though its teething problems have yet to be overcome.

Britain , the US's closest ally which once led the world in many items of defence and had a thriving defence industry , started buying US products. It barely makes one aorcraft today, the Typhoon part of an EU combine, warships like the latest frigates plagued with dngine and mechanical problems, subs with US ballistic missiles- costing tens of billons to retain, no LRMP whatsoever, gave the Harrier VSTOL tech to the US Westland helos now ownex by ghe Italians..the list goes on.Does India wang to become another petty Britain with the US' help?

Years ago Clinton went to Japan with an aircraft full of top US CEOs to promote US products.The Japanese were astounded when they werd pressurised by US corporate bosses to buy US autos, LHD, despite Japan driving like us on the left! They forced Okinawa to drive on the right after the war but once it was returned to Japan it went back to the left. That American attitude exists even when it comes to arms sales.Nothing much has changed in its understanding of the rest of the world.


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Y. Kanan » 16 Apr 2018 21:09

When asked on concerns that US may be less cost effective to Russia and China, he said: “If countries begin to choose for economic reasons only to go to countries like China and Russia, which frankly do not share the values of democracy, free markets, religious tolerance… (then) I would suggest we need to think very carefully.”


Translation: pick US or else. This is a subtle threat.

He went on to add that US attached significant importance to India’s membership quest at the Nuclear Suppliers Group. “We are pledged that we will look critically at any effort to impose unreasonable restrictions to their (India’s) membership.”


Translation: US will do nothing.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 16 Apr 2018 21:23

This " us or them " attitude of certain US donkeys in the admin. is what puts nations off closer ties with the US.Either you agree to be a servile lackey or poodle like Britain-istan, or you are asked to take a walk and put on a black list. "Buy our wares or else!" warnings are so juvenile and ridiculous that they deserve contempt. The coarse and crude manner in which the US is trying to armtwist the GOI to sign on a menu of agreements that would severely compromise our independence and sovereignty is in extremely poor taste.Ambassador "Jester " would do well to read that famous book of Carnegie, once compulsory bedtime reading, " How to win friends and influence People",but from observing recent US diplomacy in action I think it has been banned by the US State Dept.!

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India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Peregrine » 18 Apr 2018 04:26

TRUMP

Cheers Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 18 Apr 2018 06:12

Philip wrote:This " us or them " attitude of certain US donkeys in the admin. is what puts nations off closer ties with the US. Either you agree to be a servile lackey or poodle like Britain-istan, or you are asked to take a walk and put on a black list. "Buy our wares or else!" warnings are so juvenile and ridiculous that they deserve contempt. The coarse and crude manner in which the US is trying to arm-twist the GOI to sign on a menu of agreements that would severely compromise our independence and sovereignty is in extremely poor taste. Ambassador "Jester " would do well to read that famous book of Carnegie, once compulsory bedtime reading, " How to win friends and influence People", but from observing recent US diplomacy in action I think it has been banned by the US State Dept.!



Old gun boat diplomacy. Now without gunboats.

Philip, have you come across Edward Luttwak 'Rise of China and the Logic of Strategy"?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Austin » 18 Apr 2018 17:38


Singha
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Singha » 18 Apr 2018 20:14

having sold off all manufacturing industry to china, US has nothing to sell india barring movies, processed food and weapons.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby TKiran » 18 Apr 2018 20:16

^^^golden words Singha sir...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Deans » 22 Apr 2018 10:11

vish_mulay wrote:Dean i agree with most of your post, however when i did my cost analysis for return early last year (2017 beginning), i was stumped by the cost of living for comparable life style between Sydney and Mumbai. Cost of living was as bad if not worst in Mumbai in comparison to Sydney, one of the costliest cities to live in. I was not looking for 5* residence and amenities but just regular monthly expenditure on roof, food, transport, education and utilities. Except for getting a full time nanny cheaply, Mumbai was as expensive as Sydney when i take into account the salary drop i would have faced for moving back (in real $ terms, never did PPP but i think it will more expensive). SHQ was not happy either with her options, as a certified CPA and commercial manager, she would have taken a major haircut. Overall we found out that we are better off in Sydney than moving back to Mumbai. Clean water, food and air were small incentives but loosing out on closeness to family and friends still weighs on our mind. Now we are thinking about early retirement in India in next 10-12 years. To be clear, this only applies to our situation and not general comment.


Vish ji, you make an interesting point about the cost of living (for an expat or returning NRI) in India, being comparable to the West. I lived in Moscow years ago, which for many expats at the time was one of the most expensive cities in the world. It was - IF you wanted to maintain the same lifestyle as in the West.
Living like a Russian, I paid a rent of $1200/ month for my 1 BHK (being single) in a reputed and very central area in Moscow. Fellow expats who worked for MNC's, paid 4 times as much for a `expats only' gated community much further away. My driver was a Russian only speaker who owned the car I used. An English speaking chauffer in a fancy car would cost 5 times as much. A visit to a local (very competent) dentist cost me $ 10. An expat would typically pay $ 200 for an expat clinic. Haircut costs were $ 10 vs $ 50. I'd watch ice hockey or the Russian football league in my local pub, with Russians, over $ 2 beers, with the possibility of the cute waitress giving you her phone no - while expats would stuck to EPL and cricket with $5 beers and $ 200 hookers. Using the world class metro cost next to nothing - expats are routinely warned by their companies not to use it.

That said, Mumbai's real estate is the highest in the world relative to local incomes. The equation in favour of India changes if you live in a house
you own.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby JE Menon » 22 Apr 2018 16:42

^^Absolutely spot on Deans. I have lived for extended periods in multiple cities (usually on my own), and your experience is copy-pastable pretty much everywhere. A lot depends on what one chooses to do. It is only in African cities where often (for security reasons) you don't have the choice of going to a "local pub" or "local African dentist" and such like. But even so, you could very well have your entire grocery list (if you are vegetarian) sourced via your housemaid from her village, for instance, and pay the grand sum of $20 (equivalent) A MONTH for all the fruits and vegetables (organic as f00k) that you can consume. Rice, flour and condiments (if sourced from an Indian supermarket) also works out to not much. Haircut $1 (if you don't want a coiffeur), and so on... The net expense still works out to a lot less.

Same thing applies to India (I would think), but perhaps the metros have morphed into something unrecognisable for me. But judging by the cost items orderable online, cost of living is still very OK. Of course, I suppose if one wants to "replicate" the US lifestyle it probably is a different ballgame.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vish_mulay » 22 Apr 2018 17:54

It seems my phrasing of similar life style is causing confusion. I am not suggesting mirror image life style in India but rather comfortable home, commute and education facilities which provide quality education to my children. I pay 50 inr for 1 ltr of milk in Sydney. When I checked milk ( I think it was Gokul it was 55 inr per litre in India). Similar price range (3 aud per kg for chicken roughly 150 inr, in India venkeys was 250 inr per kg, I do not trust local butcher in India and may be that’s 5* life style) fresh fruits (apple pear grapes 100-150 inr per kg in Australia same price range in India but the fruit quality was not good). Rice wheat and other grains were similar prices in India in inr. Considering I was taking 35% salary haircut, I was still paying same cost for food, roof and additional 80k (2 boys primary school)for education every year (education is free in Australia). My simple calculations indicated there will be no money left for saving as we were/are doing in Sydney.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arun » 22 Apr 2018 18:50

X Posted from the “India-Russia: News & Analysis” thread.

Austin wrote:U.S. raises Russia bogey with India

India and the U.S. are engaged in senior-level consultations over recent American sanctions against Russian entities, even as two visiting U.S. defence officials have told New Delhi that India is not fully immune to the sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

However, the government is unfazed, multiple government sources told The Hindu. Even Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had visited Moscow to discuss a slew of defence deals, including the S-400 air-defence missile systems.

P.S. Raghavan, Convener, National Security Advisory Board, told The Hindu that the U.S. could not seek to sustain a strategic partnership with India while trying to weaken India at the same time. “CAATSA is aimed at every country that has military and energy connections with Russia. And while the U.S. may claim it has a strategic motive, it cannot deny it has strong commercial objectives behind it. Basically, the U.S. is saying don’t go to them [Russia], come to us [U.S.],” Mr. Raghavan, a former Indian Ambassador to Russia, said.

A senior military source said that India had conveyed to the U.S. at various levels its concerns about the implications of U.S. sanctions against several Russian entities involved in military supplies to India. “Both at the Foreign Secretary level and in the U.S., we have conveyed our stand that the sanctions cannot impinge on our relations with Russia, especially military acquisitions,” he said. Discussions, he said, are continuing.

On January 29, the U.S. began imposing sanctions on foreign companies under section 231of CAATSA for transactions made with Russian defence and intelligence sector. “There is far more at risk at strategic level for the U.S., and they acknowledge that,” the military source said.

Russia is India’s biggest arms supplier to India, accounting for 62% of acquisitions in the past five years, according to latest estimates.

“U.S. can’t offer anything that can compare to the S-400 (air defence missile system) for India. Add to that, its processes are much more complicated. While the Russian government’s nod allows the contract to proceed, in the U.S., the private companies have hesitations, the U.S. Congress, the DoD, State department, White House etc can object and scuttle any deal,” Ambassador Raghavan said

U.S. Position

The Hindu has learnt that since February, at least two senior U.S. defence officials have conveyed to India in no uncertain terms that India would not be immune to the proposed sanctions under CAATSA.

According to Section 231 of CAATSA, any country or entity that carries out “transactions with the intelligence or defence sectors” of the Russian government would face sanctions from the U.S.

The MEA declined to comment on what India’s response to the warnings was. However, it is understood that Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra have both raised strenuous objections to the U.S. proposal in their bilateral meetings. The Indian embassy in Washington DC remains engaged on the issue, military sources said.

“We totally appreciate Indian’s concerns. It was raised in discussions during senior level meetings last month. We are very concerned because we very much hope to maintain the momentum and the trajectory of this relationship. We want to deepen our cooperation and not reduce it,” Joe Felter, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for South and Southeast Asia, told PTI in an interview earlier this month.

The new U.S. Pacific Commander nominee Admiral Philip Davidson also counselled a senate hearing against penalising India for its defence ties with Russia.

However, the expressions of understanding may not cut much ice with the Indian establishment.

New Delhi is unfazed


A senior MOD source pointed out that if U.S. seeks to unsettle India-Russia ties it wouldn’t mean the U.S. will gain out of it through arms deals. “Today we have multiple options, from France to Israel. It would be better for the U.S. not to try and scuttle our strongest military ties,” he said.

The official pointed out that there was no great urgency to sign any deal with Russia now. “We will proceed at our pace, and none of our negotiations are keeping in mind the U.S. sanctions,” he said.

He said the deal for S-400 Triumf air defence system, at over $4.5 billion, is “not as close to signing” as media is speculating. The deal for the advanced S-400 could turn out to be a test case about how U.S. will react with its sanctions on India’s defence purchases from Russia. However, that may not be the only deal.

Several Russian military entities that have deep business ties with India are on the sanctions list. They include Rosoboronexport, Rostec (Russian Technologies State Corporation), Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG, Russian Helicopters, Sukhoi Aviation, Tactical Missiles Corporation, Tupolev, United Aircraft Corporation, United Engine Corporation, United Shipbuilding Corporation etc. “That is an exhaustive list of key companies which have been supplying Indian military,” an MOD official said.

Adding to the strain between India and U.S. is India’s recent refusal to schedule separate Defence Minister talks with the U.S, after the “2+2” dialogue for Foreign and Defence Ministers scheduled for Mid-April had to be put off after U.S. President Donald Trump sacked his secretary of state Rex Tillerson. Mr. Tillerson’s replacement Mike Pompeo’ confirmation process is still on, and no date can be set until he is appointed as Secretary of State.


“We will proceed at our pace, and none of our negotiations are keeping in mind the U.S. sanctions,”.

The above is 800% the way for our country India to progress deals with Russia or Iran or Venezuela or any other country the US may have a disagreement with and any imposition of sanctions by the US owing to any of their local laws on India’s relations with third countries is to be strongly counter-attacked.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 22 Apr 2018 18:54

And I pay ₹36 per litre of milk in BLR. But seriously, can we stop going further OT? This discussion got moved over to BGR with a dedicated thread, not sure how these discussions are relevant to relations between India and the US.

[Was about to x-post the above article to bring the thread back on track, but arun saar beat me to it :mrgreen:]

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 22 Apr 2018 18:56

So what's with the sudden increasing in lecturing (or should I say hectoring) by the US of late? Is it only because of the new SoS?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Bharadwaj » 22 Apr 2018 19:00

I think it's time to get the Kaveri on the Tejas through any means necessary. The Yanks are showing their true colors.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 23 Apr 2018 14:55

http://idrw.org/india-wants-us-to-waive-sanctions-over-russia-deal/#more-168115

Question : why doesn't the US sanction China for its arms deals secret and not so secret ones with Russia ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby csaurabh » 23 Apr 2018 16:06

ricky_v wrote:The point of having a fantasy-industrial-complex is to serve as more than a medium for societal and cultural constructs rather than religion purposes for communicating with newer initiates. The age of the initiate is unimportant to the people in charge of peddling the particular fantasy; though it must serve as something that the consumer strives to attain, that he may feel is particularly lacking in his daily life. There must be some sort of payoff for the layman, either spiritual,artistic or scholarly, and this is where our own FIC lacks.

Why do desis discuss almost feverishly about the avengers, or any other random made up fantasy world, when they can do the same with our own hero worshiping chronicles.Do you know of any younger populace who would discuss the physical construct of Kishkinda or even any of the Janapadas rather than say that of Asgard or Rivendell? The problems are many in following our current FIC productions, they are tacky, they have no enlightenment for the viewer and worst of all, they instill repugnant aspirations in the watchers. Why are there no fantasy books that are set in our supposed golden ages, that serve as a template to our societal proclivities during that time? Flooding markets vernacular and all with such a scheme would revitalize many of us, what are LOTR and ASOIAF but europe of a bygone era, with their views on society,hierarchy, race etc. The success of even mediocre books like Meluha Chronicles clearly attest to the vast market for such.(The author should have made up characters, reading a text where your God cusses freely turned me and many others off the text.)
At the end of the day, we are all hero-worshipers, but our own current FIC produces no hero worth emulating and the older manuals are tampered with to such an extent that their consumption in modern form promotes secularism more ,than a pride in the past, whereas the foreign FIC with their plethora of inter-sectional new age heroes for all and sundry peddle their fantasy more successfully.


Yes!! You have just put into words those feelings which I have been unable to express.
We don't have any good modern day heroes like batman or superman, and the old stuff is repackaged into a form that makes it ridiculous rather than appealing.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Apr 2018 02:23

Singha wrote:can someone educate me why central america is so poor and chaotic that people stream out with nothing , just to reach the US border ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/14/amer ... index.html

south america is relatively stable, but central america seems to be in perpetual chaos.

china's economic rise in contrast has benefited all around them in east asia, as did korea , taiwan and japan's rise benefit china

with the richest country in the world nearby why is the US unable to raise the stds in central america ?


Three words or one company:
United Fruit Company.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Apr 2018 02:28

Mort Walker wrote:
ramana wrote:Why don't you guys start a thread "Living out side India Cultural Ramifications"


Too many pitfalls in such a topic. Now that GDF is closed and BGR forum is in place, that would be a better place for it. Best to close this line of discussion in this thread.

IMHO onlee.

No go ahead. Am serious. If the topic has dum it will survive beyond a few pages or else will whither.
If forum does not serve the members it will also whither.
Already at least one page has filled.

In East Africa expatriate Indians became vulnerable when immigration got cut off and due to the poverty in India they identified with UK for their solutions. Basically they got sacrificed at Idi Amin rapacity.

In South Africa the expatriates kept their identity by cultural imports of clothes and religious articles and building temples in homes.
As Indian diaspora re-expands due to globalism this is an important aspect that people in India needs to be aware.
In fact GOI has now cultural attaches in consulates and not just the Embassy to keep in touch with the diaspora.


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