India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
darshan
BRFite
Posts: 1164
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 23 Jul 2019 07:03

Hindu priest brutally attacked near Queens temple
https://pix11.com/2019/07/19/hindu-prie ... ns-temple/

If you’re following any Indian origin US politicians and run into any response from them, please post here.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6721
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 23 Jul 2019 11:34

Mayor, and a few Reps have tweeted..
NYC Mayor: https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1153300732105383936?s=20
Mayor Bill de Blasio

Swami Ji Harish Chander Puri spent this weekend recovering from a brutal, despicable act of hate. Our city is praying for him. But he says he’s praying for his attacker.

We can all learn from that sense of grace and love.

https://twitter.com/RepMaloney/status/1153007921233563649?s=20 (Rep Maloney)

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6721
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 23 Jul 2019 11:58

Trump’s ignorance was on full display in his meeting with Imran Khan
Monday’s meeting between President Trump and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was meant to prioritize Afghanistan and the ongoing U.S.-Taliban talks. Instead, Trump’s clumsy handling of the meeting has ended up making it all about relations between India and Pakistan — and left New Delhi with no option but to effectively say what many others have said before: that Trump is a liar.

First, Trump boasted that he could win the 18-year-old war in Afghanistan “in a week,” a comment so absurd and ill-informed that it is unworthy of a rebuttal. Then he waded into the middle of a tenuous relationship between Delhi and Islamabad, governments that are only just emerging from the shadows of heightened tensions. He claimed that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had asked him to play the role of mediator between the two countries and offered to get involved in a bid to resolve the long-standing dispute over the Kashmir issue.

These remarks caused an immediate political furor in India, as they upended India’s long-standing position: that there is no room for a third party in the Kashmir conversation between India and Pakistan.

Yes, the United States has been among global powers that have historically intervened to pull back India and Pakistan from the brink of escalated military conflict. This month, India marked the 20-year anniversary of the 1999 Kargil conflict, which was triggered by Pakistani soldiers occupying Indian territory. Back then, as the Indian military pushed back hard, Nawaz Sharif, then-prime minister of Pakistan, came to Washington knocking on President Bill Clinton’s doors. More recently, when India’s air force struck inside Pakistan in the aftermath of a terror strike in Kashmir and friction mounted at the border, Trump tweeted about the possibility of tensions subsiding.

Yet channeling influence to avert full-scale military conflict between two nuclear-armed nations is hardly the same as claiming India asked for an international negotiating role in Kashmir, which is seen across party lines as a strictly bilateral issue. Modi may have well asked Trump to prevail upon Pakistan to rein in terror groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba, but it is unimaginable that he or any Indian prime minister would have offered the Americans a seat at the Kashmir dialogue table.

The Modi government, which claims nationalistic pride as its political calling card, will deny Trump’s claim. The first set of rebuttals is already out from the spokesman for India’s Ministry of External Affairs. But it shall probably require denial from even higher levels, perhaps from Modi himself. India’s parliament is in session, and this will undoubtedly be a major issue of domestic debate.

The controversy will only add to the already spiraling trade tensions between the United States and India. Nor will the Modi government be happy at the renewed focus on India and Pakistan together. Successive Indian governments have worked hard at decoupling the India-Pakistan relationship in the Western imagination. In one meeting, Trump has set back the U.S. relationship with India without having gained anything concrete for his country’s endgame in Afghanistan.

But Trump’s ignorance about South Asia — and his administration’s lack of seriousness in actually cracking down on terror groups operating on Pakistani soil — was clear before Khan even landed in Washington.

Last week, Trump tweeted about Hafiz Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks, in which more than 160 people were killed, including six Americans. Trump wrote: “After a ten year search, the so-called mastermind of the Mumbai Terror attacks has been arrested in Pakistan. Great pressure has been exerted over the last two years to find him!”

The embarrassing statement might have been funny were it not so tragic. Saeed was not “found.” In fact, he has lived and operated with impunity near the city of Lahore. Far from hiding, Saeed launched his own political party in the same national election that voted Khan into office. Trump’s tone-deaf comment about Saeed being the “so-called” brain behind the Mumbai strikes also ruffled feathers — not least because David Headley, a U.S. citizen and co-conspirator in the attacks, has testified in court about Saeed. Saeed has been sanctioned by the United Nations and is on its list of banned terrorists, but has reportedly remained a strategic asset of the Pakistani “deep state” in its war against India. Nor was Trump’s administration the one to apply the “pressure” on Saeed: The United States has had a $10 million bounty for information that would lead to Saeed’s conviction since 2012.

Anyone who believed that Trump’s Pakistan policy would be a bold break from the past needs to admit they were deluded. In 2017, Trump did make a blistering attack on Pakistan and said that Pakistan must “demonstrate its commitment to civilization, order, and to peace.” Speaking at the Fort Myer military base in Arlington, Va., that same year, Trump also pointed out that 20 U.S-designated terror groups were operational in Pakistan and Afghanistan, calling out Pakistan’s schizophrenic policy on terrorism. He even talked of rolling back military aid to Pakistan until it shut down terrorist organizations.

But his recent comments on Saeed — and subsequent gratuitous remarks on Kashmir — have exposed his bluster as a sham. On Monday, he said he is holding out the possibility of revoking the aid cuts. The entire episode reflects his ignorance, lack of focus and lack of consistency. And clearly, either he isn’t briefed well — or simply doesn’t bother to follow the briefing.

While all nations act from self-interest, Trump has shown not just a shortage of conviction and courage, but also a shortage of cogency in his remarks on India. It’s just one more reminder of how lacking in subtlety and stability the world’s most powerful man is.


Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7385
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prasad » 23 Jul 2019 16:20

PA might do the old gubo routine and promise trump what he wants in return for arms and alms. Trump's tongue lashing of im the dim notwithstanding. Afgh is a major drain and Trump doesn't like spending a dime on security of other countries. His nonchalant talk of nukes is pretty evident of how flippant he is of anybody not america. When is the next US election due?

jash_p
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 03 Feb 2008 05:56

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby jash_p » 23 Jul 2019 18:09

ramana wrote:Actually its Indians who don't get it.
....

So what would DT do?
Only card they have is TSP
Its being revived.

Don't forget India refused to send boots on Afghan soil as Uncle wanted to outsource its Afghan problems to India.

pandyan
BRFite
Posts: 393
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 05:12

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pandyan » 23 Jul 2019 18:47

Prasad wrote:PA might do the old gubo routine and promise trump what he wants in return for arms and alms. Trump's tongue lashing of im the dim notwithstanding. Afgh is a major drain and Trump doesn't like spending a dime on security of other countries. His nonchalant talk of nukes is pretty evident of how flippant he is of anybody not america. When is the next US election due?

surprisingly, the astrologer who made pretty accurate predictions about world cup is predicting that dt won't win next election. according to him, the only variable is the margin and that depends on who the opponent is :rotfl:

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7874
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jul 2019 19:33

If and when DT loses the 2020 elections, then the pro-US dalals on BRF will state that DT was just an aberration on America and on Indo-US relations. Now that a Democrat has come to power, everything will go back to the fairly tale land of pre-Trump and we should once again welcome America with open arms, so India can achieve salvation. To not do so, would be foolish and BRF is very close minded as a result.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4071
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 23 Jul 2019 21:15

https://theprint.in/opinion/trump-is-no ... st/266723/
Trump is no fool & this is why he deliberately lied about Modi’s Kashmir request
India brought this upon itself. In the end, Modi may very well end up becoming a victim of his own successful marketing campaign.


That said, there is no doubt Trump is lying (no, he didn’t misunderstand what Modi may or may not have told him; he is deliberately lying). The question is why? We should be worrying not about ‘what’ he said (as Indians are at the moment), but ‘why’ he said it. The ‘what’ is not important, the ‘why’ is critical. I have discussed the more macro reasons here, but what we need to do now is understand how this episode will play out.


He has travelled to Saudi Arabia and executed a remarkable about-turn of his Saudi hate. The Saudis had to sign an agreement for US$110 billion in immediate weapons purchases with a total of US$350 billion committed over 10 years. Trump then shifted his attack to Qatar, calling it “a funder of terrorism at a very high level”. The Qataris had to buy their way out, agreeing to spend billions of dollars within months, be it in weapons purchases or oil refining. The three incidents – turning down India’s invitation, travelling to Saudi Arabia, and training and then un-training his guns on Qatar – should have flashed warning signs to India.


Meanwhile, Trump saw the highly hostile statements on Kashmir, clearly sanctioned from the very top, emanating from Moscow. Former Russian Ambassador to India, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, a confidante of Russia’s Afghanistan point person Zamir Kabulov, had said, “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir“. Far from any backlash, India proceeded to give Russia close to US$9 billion worth of arms deals for the S-400 and second Akula class submarine. Contrast this with Pakistan. Pakistan can offer Trump minor tangibles in Afghanistan, which have a disproportionate political effect back in the US (Pakistan understands this well). Pakistan has Trump in a monopsony situation by being the only supply route, with Russia and Iran having been alienated.


Tweet on tariffs, you won’t get anything; we’ll keep throwing sweet nothings your and Ivanka’s way. But attack us on core interests like Kashmir as Trubnikov did, actively undermine Indian interests as Kabulov had, and you would get US$9 billion. Trump clearly internalised this message. In the end, there is no conclusion other than that India has brought this upon itself. It should have read the warning signs, it didn’t. There should be no doubt that Trump has done this to extract a price. How steep that price will be, shall be determined by what Trump believes: the reality of the Indian economy or Modi’s hype. In the end, Modi may very well end up becoming a victim of his own successful marketing campaign.


pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12428
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 23 Jul 2019 21:26

vijayk wrote:https://theprint.in/opinion/trump-is-no-fool-this-is-why-he-deliberately-lied-about-modis-kashmir-request/266723/
Meanwhile, Trump saw the highly hostile statements on Kashmir, clearly sanctioned from the very top, emanating from Moscow. Former Russian Ambassador to India, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, a confidante of Russia’s Afghanistan point person Zamir Kabulov, had said, “the solution to Afghanistan lies in Kashmir“. Far from any backlash, India proceeded to give Russia close to US$9 billion worth of arms deals for the S-400 and second Akula class submarine. Contrast this with Pakistan. Pakistan can offer Trump minor tangibles in Afghanistan, which have a disproportionate political effect back in the US (Pakistan understands this well). Pakistan has Trump in a monopsony situation by being the only supply route, with Russia and Iran having been alienated.

Can anyone enlighten me on the following '
1. From where BUT Russia India would have gotten Akula sub or an equivalent one? Do we have a competing offer from any other country?
2. Did the negotiation spring as a result of Kabulov's statements? Why do I have the impression that the matter had been on the table for a long-time.

Onece you answer those question you will realize that the foundational logic does not pass the smell test. This is a dead giveaway that the writer is confused. It is said in statistics that "Correlation does not imply causation". The author has obviously confused correlation with causation when it is clearly not in the above case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlati ... _causation
In statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. The complementary idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2019 00:26

I don't know why the Print published that article.
viewtopic.php?p=2366272#p2366272

On July 18 even before Imran Khan visit was finalized I said DT is malafide for the many reasons that India has taken in their interests.
Its a matter of national interests.
If I can think that MAD has already thought through and know what to do.

By reviving the Paki card DT has shown the limits of US options.
Quite like Old Mother Hubbard's Cupboard.
bare.

In the 1990s after economic liberalization US started cultivating Indian bureaucracy. Giving visa and jobs toe kin. They took that and have become Wall Street players.
Then they started infiltrating Indian think tanks. All that has led to is five start banquets and empty talk in Delhi with grand names like Raisina Dialogs etc.

Now they tried intervening in Indian politics via Naidu and his gang and they got creamed by the wise Indian voter turn out.

So back to playing the Paki card.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4071
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 24 Jul 2019 01:03

Now they tried intervening in Indian politics via Naidu and his gang and they got creamed by the wise Indian voter turn out.


WoW! Naidu gang acted on behalf of BIF?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2019 01:11

You think he was acting on his own!

He is a regular at Davos summits even when out of power.
Every third trip is to US.
Even after defeat he shows up.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2019 01:40

Prasad wrote:PA might do the old gubo routine and promise trump what he wants in return for arms and alms. Trump's tongue lashing of im the dim notwithstanding. Afgh is a major drain and Trump doesn't like spending a dime on security of other countries. His nonchalant talk of nukes is pretty evident of how flippant he is of anybody not america. When is the next US election due?



You are reading it wrong.
Trump inviting Dimmy in this month is well planned.
Its the 20th anniversary of Kargil.
The visit timing is to hurt India where symbolism matters.

Its a boiling forth of the pent up American emotions that world owes them something for their benevolence!

Read Iyer Mitra's obviously tutored article. The hurt is from Ombaba times. That means this in bi-partisan or non partisan transactional hurt. They are asking what have you done for us after we did so much for you? It turns a blind eye to own malfeasance in trying to hurt India since 1952.

DT might have made this know openly.

However need to understand from Mackinder geopolitics essay Pakistan is vital for Us role in the world. need to frame this in big letters in PMO.
Mackinder says till 1890s the two Americas (two peepul leaves)were irrelevant to world history. History was due to the big world island of Eurasia.
Eurasia comprises of heartland Asia (whats now Russia for three centuries) and Eastern Europe (Hint Germany) Once these two come together, the world island will coalesce and once again dominate world history. One move the British could do is use Punjab Muslims to create a buffer or barrier for India to join Central Asia. Its a buffer and a barrier for this.

So no matter what Anglso Saxon West has to ensure this barrier exists. That is the only geography chess piece under their control.

NaMo moves in Kashmir delimitation, remove Art 35a and 370, defeat of PDP and tightly couple Kashmir to India are all moves to remove the barrier.
Hence this pre-emptive move by DT and Deep State.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2084
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 24 Jul 2019 02:07

"You think he was acting on his own!
He is a regular at Davos summits even when out of power.
Every third trip is to US.
Even after defeat he shows up."

Ramanaji,
Politics is not like writing in BRF for free, where at the most you risk is to get banned, lick your wounds for a while and then return if you so choose for part time fun and games. In politics, if you win, why then you and even your pet dog becomes millionaire many times over. There is milk and honey flowing for you from all directions and for the 14 generations to come. And if you lose, not only you lose power and prestige, you and your kin lose out on the billions that now your enemies will reap. Very serious business and played in earnest for serious moolah. Naidu Babu was/is a serious player and played the game the best he could. In politics he is the rule and not the exception.
Gautam

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6506
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Jul 2019 02:28

VijayK, I liked this Abhijit Iyer when he was taking on ModiJi haters like Ajai Shukla on Rafale. But following his articles and his twitter feed, he seems to be like another superficial, pompous, arrogant spoilt brat like Rupa Subramanya as if they know everything. Him blaming ModiJi for Trump's bluster is laughable.

Of course, I do agree, and I have been saying since ModiJi took office in 2014 that he must tread very carefully with US, and certainly he (ModiJi) has gone overboard with his profuse hugging and such Tom Toming his closeness to Trump. And several right wing BJP clowns also have gone overboard making common cause with Trump without an iota of knowledge of US's colonial worldview and the contempt they have for Hinduism and Hindus. That Trump is a condescending racist moron, and he takes ModiJi and India as seriously as he does all those "p#ssies" he wanted to grab must be amply clear to everyone and course correction needed.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3842
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Jul 2019 02:48

I fully expect jhappi chuppi and such to continue from GOI. Shornets and possibly soopa carrier purchase will be sooner than later.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jul 2019 02:55

pankajs wrote:
vijayk wrote:https://theprint.in/opinion/trump-is-no-fool-this-is-why-he-deliberately-lied-about-modis-kashmir-request/266723/

Can anyone enlighten me on the following '
1. From where BUT Russia India would have gotten Akula sub or an equivalent one? Do we have a competing offer from any other country?
2. Did the negotiation spring as a result of Kabulov's statements? Why do I have the impression that the matter had been on the table for a long-time.

Onece you answer those question you will realize that the foundational logic does not pass the smell test. This is a dead giveaway that the writer is confused. It is said in statistics that "Correlation does not imply causation". The author has obviously confused correlation with causation when it is clearly not in the above case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlati ... _causation
In statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. The complementary idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.

More likely, this writer is not confused, but is a payee of US arms lobby. The message is clear--India should have given its business to US and not to the Russians.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Jul 2019 03:04

CRamS wrote:VijayK, I liked this Abhijit Iyer when he was taking on ModiJi haters like Ajai Shukla on Rafale. But following his articles and his twitter feed, he seems to be like another superficial, pompous, arrogant spoilt brat like Rupa Subramanya as if they know everything. Him blaming ModiJi for Trump's bluster is laughable.

Of course, I do agree, and I have been saying since ModiJi took office in 2014 that he must tread very carefully with US, and certainly he (ModiJi) has gone overboard with his profuse hugging and such Tom Toming his closeness to Trump. And several right wing BJP clowns also have gone overboard making common cause with Trump without an iota of knowledge of US's colonial worldview and the contempt they have for Hinduism and Hindus. That Trump is a condescending racist moron, and he takes ModiJi and India as seriously as he does all those "p#ssies" he wanted to grab must be amply clear to everyone and course correction needed.

What course correction should TheMudi make in his interaction with US and Trump, according to you?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2019 03:24

CRamS wrote:VijayK, I liked this Abhijit Iyer when he was taking on ModiJi haters like Ajai Shukla on Rafale. But following his articles and his twitter feed, he seems to be like another superficial, pompous, arrogant spoilt brat like Rupa Subramanya as if they know everything. Him blaming ModiJi for Trump's bluster is laughable.

Of course, I do agree, and I have been saying since ModiJi took office in 2014 that he must tread very carefully with US, and certainly he (ModiJi) has gone overboard with his profuse hugging and such Tom Toming his closeness to Trump. And several right wing BJP clowns also have gone overboard making common cause with Trump without an iota of knowledge of US's colonial worldview and the contempt they have for Hinduism and Hindus. That Trump is a condescending racist moron, and he takes ModiJi and India as seriously as he does all those "p#ssies" he wanted to grab must be amply clear to everyone and course correction needed.


CRS am replying as your outburst deserves a reply.

Please never ever shoot the messenger. Look at the message. Does it look like its written by an Indian living in India? No its written to convey the message delivered to him. Its Unfair to call him names for delivering the message.

Next coming to your huggology, its precisely because it has not gone beyond that, is why the pak card is being played.
In fact its a retraction for DT who was going hammer and tongs on pak perfidy.
What does this mean?
It means DT is on weak wicket and had to bend to the deep state.
In Osaka look a the optics. DT had a furious look on him but NM brushed him off.

Thirdly calling DT names fails to recognize the reality. The primary process ensures duffers don't make it. And even before that there is fund raising. No one will give one cent to a losing candidate.
So get rid of the idea that there are duffers. That image is carefully cultivated to give plausible deniability when mess ups occur.

And do you think NM and his team don't understand relations will be choppy for next 4-5 years due to US internal issues?
Look at Raisina dialog where non-partisan Petraeus asked India needs to chose a side and Jaishankar replied India has chosen India's side.
And that Jaishankar is External Affairs minister now.

What use is the Forum learning if we come and outrage like newbies on SM?

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3452
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 24 Jul 2019 10:50

Good thing when America shows it's TRUE colours. I say they need to do this more often. , gives a nice grounding and perspective to indian bureaucracy and politicians . All the same it's time to make india great again !

greatde
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 19
Joined: 29 Sep 2016 10:39

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby greatde » 24 Jul 2019 11:16

kit wrote:Good thing when America shows it's TRUE colours. I say they need to do this more often. , gives a nice grounding and perspective to indian bureaucracy and politicians . All the same it's time to make india great again !


Yes, they have the tendency to play the big brother role. It's not the first time nor will be the last time. So it can't be taken lightly as just some DT blabbering.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3610
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 24 Jul 2019 11:17

kit wrote:Good thing when America shows it's TRUE colours. I say they need to do this more often. , gives a nice grounding and perspective to indian bureaucracy and politicians . All the same it's time to make india great again !


Does it really? The babus and netas with wards studying/working in the US on various "scholarships", won't they continue on their current track, after all it's bread&butter vs (transient) optics.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5223
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 24 Jul 2019 11:31

Kashi wrote:
kit wrote:Good thing when America shows it's TRUE colours. I say they need to do this more often. , gives a nice grounding and perspective to indian bureaucracy and politicians . All the same it's time to make india great again !


Does it really? The babus and netas with wards studying/working in the US on various "scholarships", won't they continue on their current track, after all it's bread&butter vs (transient) optics.


NM should bring in conflict of interest clauses in employment of babus with wards in foreign land. BTW isn't Doval's son UK citizen. Still, such clause should be strictly followed, any babu's ward that lives for more than a specific number of years or applies for citizenship of foreign country should be automatically terminated.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7385
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Prasad » 24 Jul 2019 12:05

Ramana,
no comments on that article. My point is, PA will try what they've always done. Sweet talk the americans andcontinue being perfidious. As far as we are concerned, we try to be on good terms and hope DT or whoever sits in the WH sees our way of thinking. Slightly naiive perhaps because that is never going to happen. Dems might be less open about wanting a quid pro quo for any help sent our way, unlike DT who will ask you to your face ' I helped you out, what are you going to do for me'. So I don't see him being any different from past policy of wanting India to move from its position on very important key policies. Earlier it was threats and insults. Now the tactic is to do something simple and low-key like fatf and un resolution on masood azhar and asking for something big in return like 100 F21s or something. Nothing has changed really.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3452
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 24 Jul 2019 15:15

Rewarding a bad behavior ensures the habit will endure. Just ignore and go about life as normal. America is not going to give bleeding-edge tech to India and wants to sell off worn off merchandise and decades-old fighter tech, Not going to happen. At the most piecemeal orders here and there, the bulk will go to our defense industry."Trump" is all about bluster and feigning techniques as in boxing., its time we take out our tool kits and go about our business. Kashmir issue will never be solved until India takes over POK. We don't need anyone else to tell us how to solve it. As for China, it's in its own interests to solve their border issue with India. We need to be cool and move decisively and not jump around feigning as Trump does, for if we do it would play to his game. The order with Russians was not an Adhoc on but was in planning for a while. They do have khujlis with some Indian policies but we can work it out.

Vidur
BRFite
Posts: 175
Joined: 20 Aug 2017 18:57

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vidur » 24 Jul 2019 18:52

Karthik S wrote:
Kashi wrote:
Does it really? The babus and netas with wards studying/working in the US on various "scholarships", won't they continue on their current track, after all it's bread&butter vs (transient) optics.


NM should bring in conflict of interest clauses in employment of babus with wards in foreign land. BTW isn't Doval's son UK citizen. Still, such clause should be strictly followed, any babu's ward that lives for more than a specific number of years or applies for citizenship of foreign country should be automatically terminated.

Not feasible. Would be challenged in courts. Re individual mentioned above I am of personal view that there is not much to be concerned about about this specific individual.

Though the issue of influence is an important one for media, political leadership do not need to be overly concerned about it if they have a clear vision. Elected govt in Indian system is quite powerful. It's just a matter of priorities and commitment to those. Previous UPA was able to push through most of their agenda.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 24 Jul 2019 20:05

Vidur thanks for the key point you made. Its how the govt percieves its mandate.


Folks thinking more about DT getting pally with IK run TSP, its domestic politics.

DT needs the deep state to align with him as he faces headwinds from Mueller report etc.
This is the price he had to pay to get that support.
Bring TSP from dog house and eat crow.
Off course India has to do what needs to be done.
And trusting MAD they will do it.

Vidur
BRFite
Posts: 175
Joined: 20 Aug 2017 18:57

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Vidur » 24 Jul 2019 22:37

ramana wrote:Vidur thanks for the key point you made. Its how the govt percieves its mandate.


Folks thinking more about DT getting pally with IK run TSP, its domestic politics.

DT needs the deep state to align with him as he faces headwinds from Mueller report etc.
This is the price he had to pay to get that support.
Bring TSP from dog house and eat crow.
Off course India has to do what needs to be done.
And trusting MAD they will do it.


PM has a very strong carte blanche seen in Indian politics first time after Rajiv Gandhi's landslide. It's what his convictions are and what's important to him. He has made his agenda quite clear to the bureaucracy. Happy to share perspectives on relevant thread.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20533
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 24 Jul 2019 22:57

ramana wrote:You think he was acting on his own!

He is a regular at Davos summits even when out of power.
Every third trip is to US.
Even after defeat he shows up.


not the only ones in this category.

shillary made two side visits when she came to India. No one thought to ask why.

mumtaz begum and jayalalitha.

both firmly in the BIF camp.

one with one minority and another with the other.

JJ even sent that commie naxal daniel raja to the RS at the behest of the padres.

the BIF have a free run in the punjab heartlands and the padres are running rampant there.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13070
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Jul 2019 23:12

You are reading it wrong.
Trump inviting Dimmy in this month is well planned.
Its the 20th anniversary of Kargil.
The visit timing is to hurt India where symbolism matters.

It is India's choice how to read the symbolism. To me it is deja vu of a Paki neta running to Massa when his golas were caught in a rat-trap. Sharif in 1999, Dimran in 2019.
Message this time from DT is unusually subtle:
if you mess with us in Afghanistan... remember 1999.
So Dimmy smiles, DT smiles. Will release aid only if Pak plays ball.

I tell you, the logical solution to Afghanistan is the Iran-Kandahar option: Iranian troops along southern Afghan/Balochistan border, with Indian air cover. Balochistan gains freedom.

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1221
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kati » 25 Jul 2019 00:00

Vidur wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
NM should bring in conflict of interest clauses in employment of babus with wards in foreign land. BTW isn't Doval's son UK citizen. Still, such clause should be strictly followed, any babu's ward that lives for more than a specific number of years or applies for citizenship of foreign country should be automatically terminated.

Not feasible. Would be challenged in courts. Re individual mentioned above I am of personal view that there is not much to be concerned about about this specific individual.

Though the issue of influence is an important one for media, political leadership do not need to be overly concerned about it if they have a clear vision. Elected govt in Indian system is quite powerful. It's just a matter of priorities and commitment to those. Previous UPA was able to push through most of their agenda.


about 90% of the CPC Central Committee member's wards are settled in the west. Did it prevent Dragon from pursuing its own agenda?
Actually, CPC has used the liberal western democracy to station hordes of its own people in the key western countries to help achieve Dragon's objectives - from stealing western high-tech to influence the western domestic politics. They know what they are after. That's why if the political leadership has a clear objective then it won't hamper the desh. Moreover, Bharat is so diverse, and desi politics is so cumbersome for the west that dangling a few carrots to some babus won't make much headway. But yes, keep a close watch on each and every babu, as Dragon does.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4071
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 25 Jul 2019 02:55

1. What exactly is Orange man looking for India to do? I am trying to come up with tangible goals

Order weapons - How much would satisfy him?
Reduce Tariffs - Isn't Traiffs already a part of GATT agreement?
What is his issue with Iran and India?
Cancel S-400 to reduce Russian influence


Is it to satisfy the base to show how great his negotiating skills are? Or is it to really reduce trade deficit?
Is there anything we can do reasonably that is mutually beneficial?

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nachiket » 25 Jul 2019 02:59

Vidur wrote:PM has a very strong carte blanche seen in Indian politics first time after Rajiv Gandhi's landslide. It's what his convictions are and what's important to him. He has made his agenda quite clear to the bureaucracy. Happy to share perspectives on relevant thread.

You can share them here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7724&start=1000

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 25 Jul 2019 03:31

I think we taalk without data on Indo-US trade.
Here is a link that shows the data from the US Trade Representative Office

https://www.ustradenumbers.com/country/india/

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 25 Jul 2019 03:34

nachiket, Dont mind lekin its not a good idea to ask.
Especially in that thread.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nachiket » 25 Jul 2019 03:38

ramana wrote:nachiket, Dont mind lekin its not a good idea to ask.
Especially in that thread.

I couldn't find a better one but was interested in reading Vidur's perspective. Which one would you suggest?

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9696
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KJo » 25 Jul 2019 03:55

Rakesh wrote:If and when DT loses the 2020 elections, then the pro-US dalals on BRF will state that DT was just an aberration on America and on Indo-US relations. Now that a Democrat has come to power, everything will go back to the fairly tale land of pre-Trump and we should once again welcome America with open arms, so India can achieve salvation. To not do so, would be foolish and BRF is very close minded as a result.


I think it is very very unlikely that DT will lose 2020. He has the R nomination in the bag, and unless the economy tanks big, he has no head winds. Muslims and liberals screaming about "racism!" or "intolerance" has no effect. It's all about $. Whether deserving or not, the POTUS gets credit or blame for the economy, jobs and stock market and since those are all going good, he reaps the benefit.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 25 Jul 2019 06:53

he will post when he can but not there.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13070
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Jul 2019 07:10

UBCN points out re: our Anal-e-sys of yesterday:
It is India's choice how to read the symbolism. To me it is deja vu of a Paki neta running to Massa when his golas were caught in a rat-trap. Sharif in 1999, Dimran in 2019.


Pls read today's Dimran - :(( at Institute of Biss. He has basically squealed that terrorism is Paki, and created the conditions to stay in Yoo Ess at the Mushy Mahal in New Jersey or the Bar-e-Yahya in LA. But of course, that ISI never knew Osama was living inside their musharraf. So for the coup clock to stop ticking, he HAS to come back with major alms arms baksheesh - at least on paper.

If I were in DT's advisor camp (pity them!) I would suggest that US should PROMISE aid to TSP as TSP PROMISES to stop meddling in Afghanistan. Delivery should be held in abeyance to GUBO performance there and elsewhere.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7874
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2019 10:14

KJo wrote:
Rakesh wrote:If and when DT loses the 2020 elections, then the pro-US dalals on BRF will state that DT was just an aberration on America and on Indo-US relations. Now that a Democrat has come to power, everything will go back to the fairly tale land of pre-Trump and we should once again welcome America with open arms, so India can achieve salvation. To not do so, would be foolish and BRF is very close minded as a result.


I think it is very very unlikely that DT will lose 2020. He has the R nomination in the bag, and unless the economy tanks big, he has no head winds. Muslims and liberals screaming about "racism!" or "intolerance" has no effect. It's all about $. Whether deserving or not, the POTUS gets credit or blame for the economy, jobs and stock market and since those are all going good, he reaps the benefit.

Yes, very good point and I fully agree.

As James Carville coined the phrase - It's the economy, stupid! - during the 1992 Presidential Campaign, it all boils down to the economy onlee.

A second DT election win will make the dalals even more depressed. DT ruined all their plans! :mrgreen: The rhona-dhona on BRF was for all to see after the 2016 elections.

All the efforts of Ashton Carter and Manohar Parrikar went out the window with DT winning.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashokk, komal and 17 guests