India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 23 Sep 2019 23:57

CRamS wrote:Guys, unbelievable, but reading the twitter line of shudh English speaking ISI mouthpieces like Mosharaff Zaidi, and our Paki pasnad traitors, they would have you believe that there were large scale protests. My bloody foot.

I was there from start to finish at the venue. And both while going in and coming out, I stopped by see the protests. At best a few 100. And the Houston, TX police honchos, wondering what all this is about in the first place :-), made sure that the protesters did not enter the venue. And for me, in a perverse way, it was a KLPD :-). Because without being a rif-raf, I wanted to do a "Bharat mata ki Jai", "Kashmir nahi banega Pakistan, Kashmir rahega Hindustan mein" protests of my own in front of them. So following twitter lines of chutiyas gave me a glimpse of how false propaganda and fake news and narratives can be peddled in this day of instant social media.

That said guys, please don't jump all over me, but I was disappointed with 2 things:

1. The Indian American crowd was boisterous with their Modi Modi chants. Nothing wrong with that. After all, ModiJi was the star of the day. But I was disappointed that when Trump was speaking or in general, very few American flags went up. It was mostly Indian flags. I mean this was an event celebrating India US friendship, held in a mega US city, and that too attended by none other than US president hosting Indian PM, and I felt the audience should have acknowledge that with a little more symbolism. I of course didn't have any flag, but did cheer Trump bahadur's batting for India US.

2. A little disappointed that neither Trump nor ModiJi made any big announcements on trade and economy. ModiJI haters like that traitors filth Badrakumar are mocking this is just ModiJi Trump blo-fest :-). Also, I felt that both Trump, and to a larger extent ModiJi, were addressing their domestic audience instead of more issues of interest to India US relations. But maybe I am nit picking, I don't know.

3. All in a fantastic 'feel good' event. Atmospherics were great. One small step towards making SDRE Indians more mainstream in US. But long way to go.

Thanks for the report. Really appreciate hearing from those who were on the scene.

About the Indian flags: At one level, it can be viewed as awkward & maybe disrespectful of America. At a different level, I see this rally as a power projection by a "modified" India: We are on your soil, here's our flag, but we have same values, so bhai-bhai onlee.

On another note, I didn't see anyone here or in media comment on Modi's statement that, we are done with incrementalism, we are going to do game-changers only from now one. Also, I thought he had essentially declared decisive war ("nirnayak ladai") on terrorism and its supporters--a very broad category. Since Modi doesn't say even the word "I" or "hello" casually, I have to believe there are big things coming down the pike that will make jingos' hearts happy.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby saip » 24 Sep 2019 00:04

Trump did not deny that 'Pakistan is base for terrorists', only Iran is worse,

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 00:07

Bart S wrote:


Just in case anybody mistakes this for real news, this is SATIRE.


:oops: I guess I should have known that this was just too good:
Vermont Senator sees Kanhaiya as a younger version of his own with a darker complexion. The primary reason for it, we have been told, is that like Kanhaiya, Bernie has never had to do a single day of hard work or hold a job to make a living. :mrgreen:

But point is that I found the whole Donkeys-Mueller-Investigation-Impeach!-ModiBad-RussiaBad to be entirely credible as today's happenings.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 00:10

Zynda wrote:Tagging PM Modi's comments on Pakistan at Houston yesterday as "very aggressive", Mr Trump however, said it was "well received".

Expect all the BIF in India & outside to use the above as a negation to Houston's success.


Trump's exact quote was that ModiJi's comments were well received by the "50,000 odd crowd". That bit is important because he is playing a delicate balancing act and doesn't want to overtly side with India when it comes to India TSP feud. But the fact that ModiJi had the b@alls to say so in front of him and other senators/Congress-man is an unmistakable show of intent which Trump calls 'aggressive'. And given that ModiJi Trump bonhomie lasted post event as well given Trump's tweets, I don't believe Trump may have conveyed his disapproval of ModiJi's comments of any sort to Taliban Khan.

That said, for me at least, unless and until US can see TSP for what it is, an Islamist terror sponsoring entity against India, and is willing to call TSP on that in unequivocal terms and put its teeth behind it by sanctioning TSP, I don't see India US relations going beyond the kind of 'feel good' bonhomie that we saw yesterday. I don't think India has a right to dictate who US should chose as its friends, but when it comes to terror, a powerful friend of TSP is a de-facto indirect supporter of terror against India whether they chose to look at it that way or not.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nam » 24 Sep 2019 00:17

President Trump said if both Khan and PM Modi of India want him to mediate an agreement between them over Kashmir, he's willing


This is how our babus respond. "We will talk it forward once there is a consensus".

India says to Trump, we can agree for your mediation once Pak stops terror. Oh, if Pak stops terror, India can talk to it directly!

Trump babu gets to be a statesman, by creating a chicken and egg situation.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Zynda » 24 Sep 2019 00:26

CRamS wrote:I don't see India US relations going beyond the kind of 'feel good' bonhomie that we saw yesterday.

Agreed...but for now only. As we grow economically & also militarily, it would be difficult for the world to ignore us (& indirectly our interests).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Sep 2019 00:35

Zynda wrote:I guess this was to be expected...

"Can Be Good Arbitrator On Kashmir": Trump In Meeting With Imran Khan

NEW YORK: US President Donald Trump renewed his offer of arbitration between India and Pakistan today at a meeting with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan. At start of meeting with Mr Khan, President Trump said if both Khan and PM Modi of India want him to mediate an agreement between them over Kashmir, he's willing.

Asked if he would be ready to arbitrate, Mr Trump said, "I am ready, willing and able. It's a complex issue. It's being going on for a long time. But if both (Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Imran Khan) want it, I will be ready to do it."

"I think I'd be an extremely good arbitrator," he added.

Asked if agreed with India's stand that Pakistan is base for terrorists, President Trump said, "I have been pointing much more to Iran."

Tagging PM Modi's comments on Pakistan at Houston yesterday as "very aggressive", Mr Trump however, said it was "well received".

Expect all the BIF in India & outside to use the above as a negation to Houston's success.


Well, he does have foot in mouth disease. Again, when Trump is not scripted he goes where no man has gone before.

Note he did say if both ask him.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 01:00

What Trump said work for India. By now everyone knows what Trump's offer means. Nothing.

No lecturing, no summons and no dictation. Theek hai.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 24 Sep 2019 01:06

https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/pm-modi ... y-clinton/
PM Modi repeats old ‘Ab ki baar Trump Sarkar’ slogan in Houston: The Democrats literally asked for it, starting right from Hillary Clinton
This was Narendra Modi sending a message to those who wish to interfere in the internal affairs of India: Words have consequences.

K BHATTACHARJEE, SEPTEMBER 23, 2019
Prime Minister Narendra Modi heaped praises on US President Donald Trump during the #HowdyModi event. He introduced the POTUS to his ‘family’ of the thousands and thousands of people of Indian origin who had gathered at Houston. Significantly enough, Modi mentioned both of their trademark catchphrases which will no doubt cause many heartburns.
“Make America Great Again,” said Narendra Modi although he cloaked it effectively by using it in a longer sentence. At another point, while talking about when Trump was a candidate, he said, “Abki Baar Trump Sarkar,” a phrase Donald Trump had used to endear himself to the Indian American community during his presidential campaign. This wasn’t Narendra Modi campaigning for Donald Trump or endorsing him as President as some would like to believe. This was Narendra Modi sending a message to those who wish to interfere in the internal affairs of India: Words have consequences.
The US in 2019 is a deeply divided country. Thus, Narendra Modi embracing Donald Trump and praising him effusively when he is a deeply polarizing figure in American politics does carry a significant message for Trump’s political opponents as well. It also demonstrates how the Indian government perceives the current crop of Democrats attempting to defeat Trump in 2020.
Those who have been keeping a watch on American politics will know that the Democrat party has been hijacked by a radical bunch of Postmodernist Leftists whose opinions and policy statements are at odds with stability and prosperity. It has made Trump’s reelection bid much easier and they are taking policy positions that are making them extremely unpopular with the average American. And with the comments they made following the abrogation of Article 370, they have made Democrats unpopular with important allies of the United States such as India.
To be clear, Narendra Modi has also shared a turbulent relationship with Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump’s rival in the 2016 Presidential elections. Therefore, heaping effusive praises on Donald Trump could very well be Narendra Modi’s way of gloating on Hillary’s defeat. It might be his way of paying one of the most corrupt US politicians to ever run for office in her own coin. It’s no secret that Hillary Clinton wanted to “get Modi” in connection with the 2002 Gujarat riots.
In 2014, retired US officials had revealed that “during the tenure in office of Secretary Clinton, several expert teams in the guise of NGOs were sent to Gujarat to try and find mass graves”. “Hillary Clinton likes to operate through NGOs, which are given funding through indirect channels, and which target individuals and countries seen as less than respectful to her views on foreign and domestic policy in the target countries,” it was further revealed.
One retired official claimed that “rather than US NGOs, (the former) Secretary of State Clinton favoured operating through organizations based in the Netherlands, Denmark and the Scandinavian countries, especially Norway” as these were outside the radar of big power politics. It was also claimed that these NGOs were responsible for the protests against the Kudankulam nuclear power plant protests. Foreign interference in these protests is something that even then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had claimed at the time. Therefore, it’s no wonder that Narendra Modi had scores to settle with Hillary Clinton.
.....
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 24 Sep 2019 01:09

CRamS wrote:
Zynda wrote:Tagging PM Modi's comments on Pakistan at Houston yesterday as "very aggressive", Mr Trump however, said it was "well received".

Expect all the BIF in India & outside to use the above as a negation to Houston's success.


Trump's exact quote was that ModiJi's comments were well received by the "50,000 odd crowd". That bit is important because he is playing a delicate balancing act and doesn't want to overtly side with India when it comes to India TSP feud. But the fact that ModiJi had the b@alls to say so in front of him and other senators/Congress-man is an unmistakable show of intent which Trump calls 'aggressive'. And given that ModiJi Trump bonhomie lasted post event as well given Trump's tweets, I don't believe Trump may have conveyed his disapproval of ModiJi's comments of any sort to Taliban Khan.

That said, for me at least, unless and until US can see TSP for what it is, an Islamist terror sponsoring entity against India, and is willing to call TSP on that in unequivocal terms and put its teeth behind it by sanctioning TSP, I don't see India US relations going beyond the kind of 'feel good' bonhomie that we saw yesterday. I don't think India has a right to dictate who US should chose as its friends, but when it comes to terror, a powerful friend of TSP is a de-facto indirect supporter of terror against India whether they chose to look at it that way or not.

Forget about what India has a "right" to do (who decides these things anyway? and what will happen if India does something that it doesn't have a "right" to do?). Obligations are easier to comprehend and implement, since they are things we take on by ourselves.

I say that India has a moral obligation to save fellow-democracy USA--which is fortunate to share so many wonderful values with India--from its own foolish and unprincipled decisions to make friends (however temporarily) with the worst countries in the world.

As they say, "friends don't let friends make friends with pakis."
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 24 Sep 2019 01:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Sep 2019 01:10

pankajs wrote:What Trump said work for India. By now everyone knows what Trump's offer means. Nothing.

No lecturing, no summons and no dictation. Theek hai.


True. Dimran and Trump have one thing in common. Three marriages. Grab ‘em by the pu$$y.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 01:34

As they say, "friends don't let friends make friends with pakis."

In the words of Comrade Pootin:
Friendskis don't let friendskis elect Hilarious Clintonova
:mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Sep 2019 01:47

Zynda wrote:
CRamS wrote:I don't see India US relations going beyond the kind of 'feel good' bonhomie that we saw yesterday.

Agreed...but for now only. As we grow economically & also militarily, it would be difficult for the world to ignore us (& indirectly our interests).

Frankly though - I think it should go beyond this stage if the world is to become a better place. The US has to come around to treating TSP for what it is and also to seeing India as a true partner in global dynamics especially the Indo Pacific. Offering India some truly strategic assets at "friendship" prices would be the first move in this direction. A symbolic start would be "free" carrier - Kittyhawk for a purchase of 90 odd Shornets via FMS but with complete engine transfer on the F414.

INdia otoh, should offer more in Afghanistan (with sufficient backing in $s, supplies etc from NATO) - this is India's backyard and it shouldn't hesitate to get in and dirty. To let this opportunity pass would be to let others dictate the show.

Apart from energy imports, this is a chance to take away some of China's manufacturing contracts - Modi and Co should make this a highly attractive proposal to US industry.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Picklu » 24 Sep 2019 03:22

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"Being over 1.3 billion people, the diaspora will be world wide"

Agree, but many of these Indians have a goal of eventually settling down in the US. And this when India is booming. There is something incongruous about this.


US has one of the highest per capita natural resource availability within its border, be it land, water, minerals, timber you name it they have it. More Indians go and stake a permanent non refutable claim on that is better for us resident Indians.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Picklu » 24 Sep 2019 03:38

Santosh wrote:Today's event was an ultimate power projection by Modi as a resurgent India seeks to get in the driver's seat in India-US relationship. I think pieces of puzzle are aligning. Huawei has been shown the door by both Jio and Bharti and they have tied up with Samsung and Ericson/Nokia respectively. Both Trump and Modi have spoken decisively against Islamic terrorism followed by Modi's call for standing ovation for Trump. Today's event may have been a subtle way of telling Trump to play nice with Indian American community and that he has the power to sway their votes towards him.


Madison Square Garden were the power projection. That's what brought Trump in Houston in the first place.

This repeat performance was the showcase of "vote bank" before the presidential election.

Historically we have voted enmass for democrats and didn't receive anything in return.

This time we are declaring ourselves as the new Jews of America.

Our support comes with a price tag and if met, our vote can go to either donkey or elephant.

Do not take our money and support for granted.

The game TN politicians play at the national level has just been replicated at international scale.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 04:56

An Iranian traitor, a Yemeni traitor and a traitor from british-occupied Ireland, gang up and write to the Gates Foundation.

Must read to appreciate the sheer hypocrisy:
Three Nobel prize laureates - Shrilleen Ebadi, an Iranian activist, Mairead Maguire, a peace activist from Northern Ireland who was honoured in 1976, and Yemini journalist Tawakkol Abdel-Salam Karman - wrote an open letter urging the foundation to change its decision.

We were deeply disturbed to discover that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will be giving an award to Indian prime minister Narendra Modi later this month,” they wrote. “Under prime minister Modi’s leadership, India has descended into dangerous and deadly chaos that has consistently undermined human rights, democracy. This is particularly troubling to us as the stated mission of your foundation is to preserve life and fight inequity.”


Coming from those havens of stability, peace and order... :rotfl:

No wonder they call it the No-Bill Price.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 06:12

I saw anal-ysis of Fair didi on ModiJi-Trump Houston bromance. This woman is tolerable when she sticks to TSP bashing. But she has very little confidence in India's military. She even attributes ISRO success to NASA. Anyway, according to her, she is dead certain that TSP will not be blacklisted on FATF. Lets wait and see, but if she is correct, it will be disappointing.

Kugleboy who gets his script from ISI was poo-pooing Indian army's claim that Balakot has been re-activated and TSP waiting to push 500+ pigLeTs. According to this ISI boy, this is a curious claim because TSP is waiting on FATF decision, meaning India is putting it out to influence FATF. If indeed FATF bases its decision on some tactical holding back of pigLeTs by TSP and not a holistic review of TSP's use of pigLeTs as an instrument of state policy against India, they are just a bunch of colonial jokers.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Sep 2019 06:25

Doesn't the fatf take into account the fact that Imran just met with the ISI funder, criminal GN Fai?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Sep 2019 06:42

FATF won't let Pakistan go ino formal bankruptcy. They'll just stay as borderline beggars. More useful to the Deep State types that way. After all, what is the point of letting them collapse? You can't go "repossess" Islamagood, hain? Take over PITA planes? :rotfl: No sane pilot will agree to fly them. Take over a high-rise building in Karachi? No running water, no functional pakistans. Repossess used F-16s? Too much poo inside them from all the Close Encounters of Scary Kind with IAF. Commandeer the hashish crop? Tough to guard without the PA as rent-a-boys.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rony » 24 Sep 2019 06:52

CRamS wrote: Anyway, according to her, she is dead certain that TSP will not be blacklisted on FATF. Lets wait and see, but if she is correct, it will be disappointing.


I am afraid that Fair bimbo is correct on this one. I would be really surprised if pakis get blacklisted on FATF. Chinks, Turds, Mullahasians will back them to the hilt. But i will be very happy if my prediction goes wrong.

CRamS wrote: Kugleboy who gets his script from ISI was poo-pooing Indian army's claim that Balakot has been re-activated and TSP waiting to push 500+ pigLeTs.


Kugleboy is bad cop to Jeff smith's good cop.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Sep 2019 08:32

CRamS wrote:I saw anal-ysis of Fair didi on ModiJi-Trump Houston bromance. This woman is tolerable when she sticks to TSP bashing. But she has very little confidence in India's military. She even attributes ISRO success to NASA. Anyway, according to her, she is dead certain that TSP will not be blacklisted on FATF. Lets wait and see, but if she is correct, it will be disappointing.

Kugleboy who gets his script from ISI was poo-pooing Indian army's claim that Balakot has been re-activated and TSP waiting to push 500+ pigLeTs. According to this ISI boy, this is a curious claim because TSP is waiting on FATF decision, meaning India is putting it out to influence FATF. If indeed FATF bases its decision on some tactical holding back of pigLeTs by TSP and not a holistic review of TSP's use of pigLeTs as an instrument of state policy against India, they are just a bunch of colonial jokers.


AFAIK, there is no country which is on the FATF blacklist. There have always been countries of concern. Iran and DPRK came close to being blacklisted. The Cayman Islands and some US territories were also areas of concern at one time. I really don't think being blacklisted will make much of any difference for TSP. In time, they'll burn through the aid/lending in 9-12 months and be back on the brink of defaulting again.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Shwetank » 24 Sep 2019 08:35


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 24 Sep 2019 08:58

Rony wrote:
CRamS wrote: Anyway, according to her, she is dead certain that TSP will not be blacklisted on FATF. Lets wait and see, but if she is correct, it will be disappointing.


I am afraid that Fair bimbo is correct on this one. I would be really surprised if pakis get blacklisted on FATF. Chinks, Turds, Mullahasians will back them to the hilt. But i will be very happy if my prediction goes wrong.

CRamS wrote: Kugleboy who gets his script from ISI was poo-pooing Indian army's claim that Balakot has been re-activated and TSP waiting to push 500+ pigLeTs.


Kugleboy is bad cop to Jeff smith's good cop.



Much as I hate to say it, blacklisting the paki on FATF is an invitation to serious disaster.

It will spin out of control and flail about, causing the maximum damage to India and the US.

The cheeni will pull strings in the background to target both India and the US as they now have very serious issues with both countries.

Why do we get into shitty situations like the "wuhan sprit" and such nonsense especially when dealing with a two faced criminal enterprise like the cheeni goonda gang.

Haven't we the spine to push a counter narrative like the "tibet spirit" or the "two cheeni spirit"

trump has the cheeni Kumquats (金橘 Jīn jú) in tight vise and is tightening it further.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 09:23

I saw the press conference of Taliban Khan and Trump bahadur in its entirety.

Its very painful and frustrating that despite yesterday's bonhomie, nothing has fundamentally shifted in the India-US-TSP triangular equation. As I point out in my report of yesterday's event, unless US recognizes and acts accordingly, namely, that TSP is the epi-center of terror, especially directed against India, India US relations are stuck.

I mean leaving aside all the gas from Trump lavishing extensive praise on Taliban Khan and TSP, the answer to one question stood out. And that was when one Paki asked if Trump endorses ModiJi's statement that all terror including 9/11 and 26/11 can be traced to TSP. To which all that Trump could summon was that it is Iran that is terror hub.

I mean even if he wanted to be nice to TSP, he could have said there are issues of radical Islamist terror with TSP but bla bla (something to soothe TSP ego). Some crap, even that would be too benign, but to completely side step TSP terror is sure dampener from yesterday. I cannot imagine TSP is so important for Trump's game plan in Afghanistan that he could not even summon the honesty to endorse what ModiJi said because even if he wants to discount 26/11 because it was an attack on us SDREs, OBL was found in Abbottabad hiding under the asses of TSPA/ISI.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 24 Sep 2019 09:41

Things will change fundamentally to the level BRF wants, when we become an even bigger economic powerhouse, helmed over by a proper nationalist Govt like the current one. Basically, 10x of what we are today economically + a well funded domestic MIC + well armed, ready military. Our current heft comes from that. I hope Modiji continues to give more focus to economy as more dinero = more everything else.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Sep 2019 09:50

Karan M wrote:Things will change fundamentally to the level BRF wants, when we become an even bigger economic powerhouse, helmed over by a proper nationalist Govt like the current one. Basically, 10x of what we are today economically + a well funded domestic MIC + well armed, ready military. Our current heft comes from that. I hope Modiji continues to give more focus to economy as more dinero = more everything else.


The goal is to reach the nominal $5T GDP by 2024. Trump is the devil we know, in 2012 it was Obama. US politicians shouldn’t take Indian origin persons for granted. Krishnamurti from Illinois was there but not Nikki Haley, Bobby Jindal, Ro Khanna, and others. Ro Khanna has been the biggest disappointment and he deserves to lose Indian origin support.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Sep 2019 10:36

CRamS wrote:I saw the press conference of Taliban Khan and Trump bahadur in its entirety.

Its very painful and frustrating that despite yesterday's bonhomie, nothing has fundamentally shifted in the India-US-TSP triangular equation. As I point out in my report of yesterday's event, unless US recognizes and acts accordingly, namely, that TSP is the epi-center of terror, especially directed against India, India US relations are stuck.

I mean leaving aside all the gas from Trump lavishing extensive praise on Taliban Khan and TSP, the answer to one question stood out. And that was when one Paki asked if Trump endorses ModiJi's statement that all terror including 9/11 and 26/11 can be traced to TSP. To which all that Trump could summon was that it is Iran that is terror hub.

I mean even if he wanted to be nice to TSP, he could have said there are issues of radical Islamist terror with TSP but bla bla (something to soothe TSP ego). Some crap, even that would be too benign, but to completely side step TSP terror is sure dampener from yesterday. I cannot imagine TSP is so important for Trump's game plan in Afghanistan that he could not even summon the honesty to endorse what ModiJi said because even if he wants to discount 26/11 because it was an attack on us SDREs, OBL was found in Abbottabad hiding under the asses of TSPA/ISI.


This is classic Trump. The attention span of a 3 year old. He threw the Israelis under the bus when he offered to meet the Iranian leadership at the UNGA this week, and I think he caught the Iranians off guard too. The guy just wants a Nobel prize because Obama got one. To Trump it’s like a golf trophy. If he comes to India give him the Nehru peace prize for philandering.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 11:04

Zynda wrote:I guess this was to be expected...

"Can Be Good Arbitrator On Kashmir": Trump In Meeting With Imran Khan
Expect all the BIF in India & outside to use the above as a negation to Houston's success.

Everyone can jump and down as much as they want but this does not change anything one bit. This is the 3rd time Frump has offered mediation. What came of the first two I wonder. :-? :rotfl:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karthik S » 24 Sep 2019 11:12

BRFites in khan land, do you believe desis there will begin to think in terms of creating a desi lobby? I saw among desis who went there in 1990s, they have very low opinion of desh, rightly so in many ways, but they seem to carry this frozen view. Also, quite a few desis are very content in closing the door to khan land as soon as they enter. Felt our diaspora is quite polar opposite of other communities, who try to increase their influence by forming a cohesive unit.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 24 Sep 2019 11:13

trump says what he thinks that the other person wants to hear, especially if he badly wants something from them.

India and the pakis have been at it for 7 odd decades now.

one wonders what "quickly" means in this context as well as situation. :mrgreen:



US President Donald Trump deletes tweet where he ‘hoped’ India and Pakistan will resolve the Kashmir issue ‘quickly’




Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 11:19

https://twitter.com/MichaelKugelman/sta ... 1427724293
Michael Kugelman @MichaelKugelman

Bottom line: Yesterday's Houston extravaganza solidified the chemistry between Trump and Modi and delivered a big boost to US-India ties. But no matter how grand it may have been, it won't alter Trump's thinking on #Pakistan (and especially given the #Afghanistan question). FIN

An Indian replies ...
https://twitter.com/SirJambavan/status/ ... 5310789632
Jambavan @SirJambavan

This is where a blinkered approach comes in the way of analysis.

The bonhomie isn't a warning shot for Paxstan.

Moreover, we have dealt with Paxstan, even when US was providing full fledged support. We can deal with them now with our eyes half closed.

What Kugelboy stated is both true AND false at the same time.
1. US approach to bakistan will be purely driven by its own agenda. This part is true.
2. AND the Huston extravaganza wasn't ONLY about bakistan. Making it solely about bakistan is what is false about the analysis.

As I had written before about the Huston Frump-Modi jugalbandi, there are multiple strands to the outcome of the events that need to be considered for a full 360 degree analysis.

Kugelboy obviously has his agenda keeping it focused on just one strand. Oh btw, before I forget, it was Frump who talked about the "Radical Islamist Terrorist" and the need to protect our people and NOT Modi. Bakistan can try to runaway from it but it remains the epicenter of those kind in the minds of the majority decision makers across the world. To that extent Modi got unexpected support from the US/Frump on bakistan.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 24 Sep 2019 11:37

Karthik S wrote:BRFites in khan land, do you believe desis there will begin to think in terms of creating a desi lobby? I saw among desis who went there in 1990s, they have very low opinion of desh, rightly so in many ways, but they seem to carry this frozen view. Also, quite a few desis are very content in closing the door to khan land as soon as they enter. Felt our diaspora is quite polar opposite of other communities, who try to increase their influence by forming a cohesive unit.


Don't use the word "desi", pukes use it too.

-del- OT
Last edited by vimal on 24 Sep 2019 12:19, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 24 Sep 2019 11:40

Treating Trump like any prior establishment POTUS is a mistake. That is not how he works. To expect stable policy position statements from him is like expecting calm, rational and mature behavior from a pre-teen. But it's a mistake to just see him as immature. Maybe he is, but it's more worthwhile to focus on his motives than his personality.

He is a mercantile-minded businessman and an egotist. His standard operating procedure is to place himself into any business where he thinks he can rattle the cage a bit, position himself as some kind of deal-maker, and hopefully get some kind of recognition for it, or concessions from others who were taken aback by his aggressive maneuvering and handed him the initiative.

He also holds a long grudge against Obama, dating back to when he was publicly made fun of by the latter at the WH press correspondents dinner in the early 2010s. Domestic policy wise, he's been intent on eliminating some of the things that comprise BOs legacy, and elsewhere, seeks parity with BO (e.g. a No Bill Piss Prize).

Trump LOVES attention. More importantly, he hates not being at the center of it. In that regard, handing him the Nehru Prize or something is a great idea. A yuuge grand ceremony of course, far in excess of anything else. Lots of bling and gold as well . Why make him search for a Piss Prize, when one can easily be handed to him - with a useful name like Nehru on it too.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2019 11:47

To get a measure of what a loose cannon Trump is, I found it a bit tasteful of him dissing an ex-president of his own country, Obama, in front of Paki rif rafs who have hurt his country so badly in AfPak. And then he makes an ass of himself saying he deserves the nobel prize.

If Trump continues be a laughing stock like this, I doubt he will get a second term. For us though, despite Trump bufoon is any day better than pontificating Biden. I doubt Elizabeth Warren has a shot because even if she gets the dem nomination, Trump will have her for breakfast. Biden is a different ball game.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 24 Sep 2019 12:04

Vimal'ji I have to call out two of your statements. They are orthogonal and false.

vimal wrote:Talk is cheap. Let's see how DTs admin behaves after all this. From what I see DT admin has been pretty hard on all immigrant community especially Indians due to all the visa related restrictions etc. If India still needs leverage from US to control J&K then it's not a good sign.


When talk is about fighting Radical Islamic Terrorism, then local issues like removing the per country quota limits on legal immigration takes a backseat. Both the issues are orthogonal.

All support should be extended to any US Congressmen or POTUS or POTUS wannabes who clearly call out Radical Islamic Terrorism. It is actually hypocrisy to crib about "immigration" when talk is about Radical Islamic Terrorism.

None of the dumbocrats other than Tulsi and to a certain degree Joe Biden came out in support of India on farticle 370. Yes it matters. In fact coots like Sanders and Ro-dho-Khanna threw their lot behind Radical Islamic Terrorists. They need to be defeated. People like Ilhan Omar need to be defeated.


vimal wrote:As you said Indians are eager to close the door behind them and drive their BMW and Tesla while looking down upon those driving Japanese cars. There are South/North/Hindi/Tamil/Telugu/Gujju/xyz groups all constantly in the game of one-upmanship. People with Green Card and Citizens are in their own world and are some of the most anti immigrant folks you can meet. Sometimes listening to them makes me wonder if these folks are part of some white supremacist group, so smug. Within Indian group you would find peacefuls/faithfuls/Khalistanis/LTTE who are ready to talk BS against India at the drop of hat. Some of them share items against India on FB regularly. Every 15th august there is a plane flying over Independence day parade with "India out of Khalistan" banner proudly behind it and Sikhs protesting against India on the streets.

It's no surprise that Indians for all the money and clout they have, haven't been able to change the narrative on Kashmir. They just don't seem to be able to get along.


I seriously think that you have himalayan size chips on your shoulders for broad brushing NRIs and going from the snobbiness of GC holders to Bakistan and Khalistan and clubbing everyone together in one single group and carry out with your blinkered rant.

Why a blinkered rant? Well lot of H1-B people have got it good now - that is what I will argue. Of course recently they were not able to get into lottery since body-shoppe companies will file multiple H1-Bs for one person and by lottery they will get it, leaving a genuine one gasping.

Anyway reducing the relations to a unitary case of visa processing is ridiculous.

Coming back to H1-B processing, maybe you are not aware that earlier anybody who crossed 6 years on H1-B had to leave the country for one year. Major disruption. Fingerprints for GC were taken on old 'Indian Ink' toners resulting in smudged fingerprints and rejections. In one processing center of USCIS a particular lady put an entire set of GC applications through a shredder. All of those poor persons got notice to deport!

It was a wish that *people like you* do not suffer from the shenanigans of USCIS that several of us got together and funded a group that sued USCIS all the way into supreme court. Successfully. I remember spending my dollars behind suing USCIS so that people like you do not suffer unnecessarily instead of buying some AAPL stock.

What did it result in? Fingerprinting was privatized and made efficient. H1B holders do not have to leave US after 6 years for 1 year. Thus they could get a home loan now and invest. Proper processes in USCIS were implemented.

Per country quota has to go. Not sure what Ombaba was doing all this years. But fact remains that dumbocrats will more likely give a GC to an illegal rather than a legal one and you will not try to look beyond your nose to discern that there is a bill in senate that removes per country quota. And neither understand the fact that Radical Islamic Terrorism is a far far far bigger danger than the politics around visa processing.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 12:08

CRamS wrote:That said, for me at least, unless and until US can see TSP for what it is, an Islamist terror sponsoring entity against India, and is willing to call TSP on that in unequivocal terms and put its teeth behind it by sanctioning TSP, I don't see India US relations going beyond the kind of 'feel good' bonhomie that we saw yesterday. I don't think India has a right to dictate who US should chose as its friends, but when it comes to terror, a powerful friend of TSP is a de-facto indirect supporter of terror against India whether they chose to look at it that way or not.

Note

1. US has its own interest as has India. It is lazy for India to expect US policy to be driven by Indian interest rather than US's. That we agree on.

2. India has to clean its own shit.

3. Even then, Frump did call out "Radical Islamic Terrorism" and the need to protect In-front of a mainly Indo-America crown and the PM of India. Symbolic but significant AND it was not off the cuff but Frump seemed to be reading a prepared statement judging by the flow and discipline of the whole address. Frump/US are essentially endorsing India's right to go after "Radical Islamic Terrorism" to protect its own people. Cannot be a bigger endorsement of Balakot, etc.

4. Last line can be re-stated to "Every country that maintains diplomatic relationship with Bakistan is de-facto indirect supporter of terror against India". While not wrong in essence, if such a position was to drive Indian policy, India would be left friend-less in the world. International relationship and foreign policy therefore are based on pragmatism hence driven by convergence rather than divergence. The push always is to expand the orbit of convergence. Modi understands that.

5. While US-Bakistan relationship has endured through thick and thin BUT India-Us relationship has come a Loo..oog way from the Nixon/Assinger era or the more recently Clinton/Rafool era. What can be stated with confidence is that the trajectory is positive and will continue to be positive.

More generally, when one looks around the world one comes to the same conclusion about India's relationship with the world barring a few. Even the Gulfies relationship have progresses to a point where it causes a lot of discomfort in bakistan.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby disha » 24 Sep 2019 12:11

Suraj wrote:Trump LOVES attention. More importantly, he hates not being at the center of it. In that regard, handing him the Nehru Prize or something is a great idea. A yuuge grand ceremony of course, far in excess of anything else. Lots of bling and gold as well . Why make him search for a Piss Prize, when one can easily be handed to him - with a useful name like Nehru on it too.


I watched his whole speech and Trump also knows how to deliver a speech when he is in his element! He can inspire. And yes, he loves attention. And he came out clearly against Radical Islamic Terrorism.

No POTUS so far made such an eloquent statement on Radical Islamic Terrorism. All politicos dance around stating Izlam is religion of peace and look other way when they islamics literally make pieces of non-muslims.

Trump is way way way way way way (1000x) better than Ilhan Omars who have taken over so-called democratic party. India does need a friend in WH who has his/her own Texas size problems in US to take care off while India needs to take care of Pakistan Occupied Residual Kashmir.

Put it this way, islamics and chinese will vote for dumbocrats. What are Indo-Americans going to do? Get shafted on the pedestal of hooman rights?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rsatchi » 24 Sep 2019 12:15

Noob pooch
Did we as ask POTUS to come to ‘HM’ event or did he force himself/volunteered
Reading through print media tv report there is still a sense of ‘hyphenation’
Was there a need for HM event prior to UNGA
Except for energy co operation no major overt announcement
Will there be something substantive in coming months
Saw a TSP report of ministers hinting major action in October/November
Was the meeting then a preamble to what is going to happen later? :roll:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby pankajs » 24 Sep 2019 12:26

Cain Marko wrote:Frankly though - I think it should go beyond this stage if the world is to become a better place. The US has to come around to treating TSP for what it is and also to seeing India as a true partner in global dynamics especially the Indo Pacific. Offering India some truly strategic assets at "friendship" prices would be the first move in this direction. A symbolic start would be "free" carrier - Kittyhawk for a purchase of 90 odd Shornets via FMS but with complete engine transfer on the F414.

INdia otoh, should offer more in Afghanistan (with sufficient backing in $s, supplies etc from NATO) - this is India's backyard and it shouldn't hesitate to get in and dirty. To let this opportunity pass would be to let others dictate the show.

Apart from energy imports, this is a chance to take away some of China's manufacturing contracts - Modi and Co should make this a highly attractive proposal to US industry.

"supplies etc from NATO" is Dead on arrival. How will NATO get supplies to India in Afghanistan? via Bakistan?

1. It is unthinkable that bakis will allow India, that is solely in Afghanistan to defeat baki proxy & plan, to be supplied via it territory.
2. NEVER trust a logistic chain that you cannot fully control or replace.
3. Bunnies and others cannot be defeated in Afghanistan, they have to be defeated in Bakistan. US failed because if failed to take the fight to bakistan.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 24 Sep 2019 12:43

disha wrote:
Suraj wrote:Trump LOVES attention. More importantly, he hates not being at the center of it. In that regard, handing him the Nehru Prize or something is a great idea. A yuuge grand ceremony of course, far in excess of anything else. Lots of bling and gold as well . Why make him search for a Piss Prize, when one can easily be handed to him - with a useful name like Nehru on it too.

I watched his whole speech and Trump also knows how to deliver a speech when he is in his element! He can inspire. And yes, he loves attention. And he came out clearly against Radical Islamic Terrorism.

Trump holds certain hold held personal beliefs, particularly:
- That the US has been overly generous towards the world economically, that it has effectively bankrolled the western world's safety with its vast arsenal. Arguably true. However, he believes that this munificence has not been repaid in sufficient loyalty/benefits in kind . Therefore he feels that they should be cut loose or forced to agree to a deal on US terms. Is that a reasonable demand ? I have no opinion on it. Clearly the US spent a lot of effort. However, it also reconstructed an entire economic and trading system on terms that suited itself - the Bretton Woods system.
- Trumps no fan of Islamic terrorism, and can readily be expected to say the right thing there. However he doesn't necessarily know who the enemy is, or think some of those whom he does business with are enemies. Probably he has a simplistic idea of what constitutes such a terrorist, and any such nuance - on any matter - is not something one can expect from him. He's also - as in the previous point - willing to cut and run if there are no immediate gains to be had, or he doesn't think some entity (e.g. Taliban) can hurt US interests in the foreseeable future.


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